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Rustproofing and chassis repair pt.3 - chassis repair. How strong does it need to be?

  Рет қаралды 3,170

Defender mods and travels

Defender mods and travels

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 44
@chriswalker4272
@chriswalker4272 2 күн бұрын
Thank you for your detailed explanations with examples sir 👍 I've always believed in replacing like for like. To cut out any corroded metal and replace with fresh metal of the same thickness, I do use galvanised steel for repairs when I can. This would normally be thinner parts like bulkhead repairs, but I think the galvanised steel gives a little protection to the weld from corrosion. However respiratory protection from the poisonous gases are more hazardous than normal welds so good ventilation and respiratory face mask are essential. I also find my cheap plasma cutter is great for cutting out the rotten steel to good steel. Much easier than using a cutting wheel in awkward spaces too.
@alexwilliamson1441
@alexwilliamson1441 2 жыл бұрын
These videos are awesome! Please keep them coming!
@MSC-101
@MSC-101 Жыл бұрын
Hello from Canada. Love your channel. My 1976 101 was happy to hear about your vehicles and adventures. We both look forward to more videos, especially as I recently declared myself retired, and hope to spend more time with it and my FJ55, and the rest of the family of course.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels Жыл бұрын
Hi, I reckon that if you live in Canada with its wide open spaces, have recently retired and have an old 101 you could have a lot of fun. I take my 30 year old Defender to many countries and wouldn't change it for say a new Defender 😁🤣. I will be getting it ready for a big adventure this winter.
@MSC-101
@MSC-101 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your response. Driven modern vehicles from coast to coast but generally unsure about doing that with the original gasoline V8, even with less than 10k km on it. I plan to spend this winter doing something about it and would be interested in a future video covering your technical and philosophical thoughts on using/modifying an 'old' engine versus replacing it (and possibly other things). Would prefer to benefit from improvements in fuel cost, range, reliability, ease of repair and such during and not after such a trip (net of conversion of course). Thanks, Marco
@zingaman101
@zingaman101 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Bill, dispelling myths and legends.
@mattrandall3285
@mattrandall3285 Жыл бұрын
Very educational I learnt a lot
@adelarsen9776
@adelarsen9776 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Bill. You mentioned other people using heavy plate. You are correct. I would have also said that the use of heavy plate moves all the forces somewhere else which can show up as failure. In other words, chasing your tail. Good video. Thanks :-)
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Ade, the chassis rails are statically determinate so the shear forces and bending moments won't be affected, however there will be a stress concentration at the change in thickness which will reduce the fatigue life.
@adelarsen9776
@adelarsen9776 2 жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels Yes 🙂Good health to you Sir.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
@@adelarsen9776 I will make it to Oz one day soon friend.
@adelarsen9776
@adelarsen9776 2 жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels Thank you Bill and thank you for your good work in and around Sandakan. You're welcome here in the outback any time. We'll look after you, cheers.
@petecs1655
@petecs1655 2 жыл бұрын
Very informative as per. I lost a good truck to chassis corrosion. The welds are the early starting points, so glad you pointed out the problem with slapping on and welding a plate. Pete
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Pete, I am in the process of rescuing an extremely capable truck (the Disco 1) from the clutches of chassis corrosion and just in time too! Well worthwhile doing. It will see me out until the end of my driving career and for what I need I can't really think of anything which would do me better.
@oldbritishmetal
@oldbritishmetal 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video Bill. You really are a proper engineer - it's such a misused title which is often totally misrepresented in the UK. Looking forward to the next installment.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Ian. Yup I plead guilty, I am an engineer and can't hide it. Sorry.
@garyeves4991
@garyeves4991 Жыл бұрын
Very useful information, really enjoying your videos Bill!
@angusabbott5615
@angusabbott5615 2 жыл бұрын
The rust proofing needs to start when the vehicle is new, gallons of expensive snake oil on top of mud and rust inside the rails just makes repairs more difficult,
@wheezin_mtnbkr3576
@wheezin_mtnbkr3576 6 ай бұрын
Bill, I quit on this long ago. Now, I simply “Fluid Film” the entire vehicle including the chassis inside and out, the under body, inside panels and anywhere else rust may occur. It is greasy, but it is simple and easy. Just spray it once a year and forget about it.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 6 ай бұрын
I never got round to doing the second video so I didn't give my solution. I am not too worried about the visible surfaces which can be coated with any number of surface coatings (provided they are tightly adhering). I looked at a lot of recommendations about what to inject in the closed spaces and a number of knowledgeable guys said that ATF has excellent anti-corrosive properties. I have plenty of that available for free (old gearbox oil) so that's what I am using. Time will tell.
@Predator27007
@Predator27007 Жыл бұрын
Excellent work as always, Bill. My concern for older vehicles are these: We often see rusty chassis, cleaned up, and repainted. People may not know how much material thickness is retained or the condition inside the chassis members. Are there cracks? With 2mm wall thicknes, could we be down to 1.5mm? Perhaps 1mm or even less. A hole is zero retained thickness. Older vehicles are often modified to accept heavy items such as winches, bumpers, anchor points. Are standard chassis members sufficiently strong for such modifications and the uses? You will cringe Bill, but I made cardboard patterns of my chassis and have had plates made to reinforce my entire chassis, then pool welded and butt welded these to my chassis (after spray galvanising). The plates are 3mm in the lower flange and 2mm in the webs of rails and cross members. All through-bolting points are reinforced on the opposite side to ensure the members are not crushed. I have reinforced the brackets where the front control (leading) arms are bolted. I have used the same steel grade as LR claim to have used. I am not an expedition user so loss of payload is not critical, but my vehicle does get used in extremis.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels Жыл бұрын
Bear in mind that it's usual for engineering structures to be designed with a corrosion allowance which is sacrificial steel which can be lost without loss of function. Whilst I have never worked on automotive structures I'd be surprised if the corrosion allowance was less than 30% of the total steel thickness. If you feel the need to reinforce the vehicle beyond its design strength be aware that fatigue failures typically outweigh static strength failures by an order of magnitude. I would concentrate on reducing stress concentrations particularly in areas of dynamic loading. Also local reinforcement can be added in areas of high local loads. I am not a great fan of adding reinforcement in areas where stresses are low and any type of failure (fatigue or static) is inconceivable. I would also advise against putting in large volumes of weld metal which will cause distortion and may put stresses in components not designed for it (e.g. the chassis is pulled out of shape and puts stresses into the bodywork it's meant to support).
@humourless682
@humourless682 Жыл бұрын
Later LRs rust from the inside out! To save cost, chassis were made with triple skins in high stress areas, where extra strength was required. This means that water gets between the skins, and weakens the most critical areas of the chassis. Essentially, when the corrosion makes it to the outside world, the chassis will have been weakened so much it's ready to break in half. The calculations outlined here, certainly apply to a brand-new chassis, but one which has seen any amount of use somewhere as wet as the UK, will be affected by corrosion to some extent. Old series LR chassis, were made out of far more substantial material, and last much longer than the later multi skin designs.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels Жыл бұрын
Agreed on all fronts. In engineering design it's usual to have a corrosion allowance which is the amount of steel which can be lost before the member becomes overstressed. From memory this chassis has a corrosion allowance around 40-50% however it clearly can't tolerate 100% wasteage.
@humourless682
@humourless682 Жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels I used to do a lot of welding repair work for an LR specialist, and soon found out that in terms of corrosion a later multi skin chassis, in some cases would become beyond repair pretty quickly. Series chassis on the other hand, were simply a matter of cutting out the rotten sections and replacing them with new. Did loads of rear cross members and outriggers. Good to see a 4WD channel thats not ensnared with bolt on bling, which in most cases is less effective than the stock parts!
@husq2100
@husq2100 2 жыл бұрын
I’m only a carpenter so take this with a handful of salt. My experience is with my 110 LR chassis repairs and modifications. I have cut off all the suspension mounts and removed the A frame cross member. (To reinstall in different locations to change the links in length and geometry) Regarding crevice corrosion, the sections that were fully seal welded have little to no rust between the two surfaces, with bright untreated steel still showing not much different from when it was installed. The areas only partly welded were terrible traps and introduced corrosion in unseen and in unpreventable areas. Behind the A frame cross member was bad where it attaches to the main chassis rails. Even behind the removable transmission cross member was bad. In the area behind the gearbox cross member, I’m not happy with just treating the rust and leaving it, I have also decided not to cut it out as there are formed angles (3-4mm thick, say 30-40mm wide) inside the corners of the chassis and these are spot welded to the to C section halves before the full longitudinal welding down the centreline. I’ve chosen to overlap the web with a doubler, but formed in a C section to avoid welding to the radius corners where stresses are trapped. Regarding the cutting of chassis’s, repair sections etc on angles, it’s my understanding that this reduces stress risers as it changes the direction from being generally perpendicular to the load forces. Commonly cut at 45 degrees. It’s definitely bad practice to weld straight across a flange (I avoid it on webs also) For those that have access to instagram, my account is Kustom110
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
"It's definitely bad practice to weld straight across a flange". Could you please quote chapter and verse on this or is it just hearsay? I am familiar with codes of practice for the design and construction of steelwork from several countries and I don't recall seeing this recommendation anywhere but I am ready to be corrected.
@husq2100
@husq2100 2 жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels it’s in our vehicle codes here in Australia for repairs and modifications. It’s also been explained to me by an engineer but unfortunately I can not remember the exact details or put in to words that would satisfy you. Remember these aren’t just beams with weight on them and support underneath, there are acceleration and braking forces as well as torsion going through them. I’ll do some digging and see if I can come back to you.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
@@husq2100 Thanks for the reply. I am going to do a video on this very subject because it seems the vehicle regs in some countries are at variance with code requirements in virtually every industry elsewhere for no apparent reason which I can fathom. It would help if the engineer who explained it to you could explain it to me too. I would be pleased to learn. BTW the bending and to a lesser extent the shear stresses will govern no matter what load causes them.
@husq2100
@husq2100 2 жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels the key point I was told was it reduces stress risers. I think that zigzag chassis cut you showed was not a good idea and worse than a straight cut due to sharp changes in direction. My thoughts with fish plates being cut with angled ends < > or > < make a smoother transition in stiffness change.
@fatsolutions
@fatsolutions 2 жыл бұрын
Great video mate
@vic6820
@vic6820 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting 👍
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
Did you wade through the technical bits or skip over them? My engineering students did the hard yards and it did them good.
@vic6820
@vic6820 2 жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels Not only did I watch the whole thing, I will probably watch it again. I'm no engineer and am a beginner welder, out of necessity. My 32 year old Defender is becoming a bit thin in places. I have already used 3 mm patches because I couldn't find any 2 mm. I think I pulled it off though.
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
@@vic6820 You are a hero if you watched the whole video and you aren't an engineer. If you can get the gist of it you are doing well. I think you will understand the conclusions though. I will publish a welding guide for non welders because the experts seem to live in another world to the likes of us. 3 mm patches should be OK but don't go any thicker.
@vic6820
@vic6820 2 жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels Thank you 👍
@philhealey449
@philhealey449 2 жыл бұрын
Good work as ever ! This and Maximus Ironthumper's heroic Land Rover chassis repairs together make a great combination! Matt's Offroad Recovery self-built truck chassis also provided some entertainment recently, including using the structure as a compressed air tank, producing some adverse inflation effects in a structure otherwise looking like something Brunel might have been proud of. Some further chassis fatigue thoughts along the lines of the previous superb axle analysis videos would also be very interesting, maybe comparing 'rigid' (e.g. Land Rover box section) versus 'extreme flexibility in torsion' (Mercedes C Section Unimog chassis, or whatever those old Bedford 4x4 trucks had) in response to off road travel, coping with undulating terrain. This can result in up to 30 degrees of twist, apparently with no ill effects. Finally the variety of 3 point, 4 point, plus spring-isolated fixings of habitation boxes to chassis in the overlanding world is remarkable and I don't think everyone gets that right. A fascinating topic there in itself, if you ever get chance for a walkthrough of the campsite at the German Bad Kissingen overlanding show, looking at and under the eclectic gathering of Leviathans. Rgds, Phil
@philhealey449
@philhealey449 2 жыл бұрын
Slightly off beat question here, but if building a chassis mounted spare wheel holder that might see some service in arctic climates, what grade of steel would you suggest ? I seem to be arriving at EN24T but also see stainless steel grades cropping up as very suitable for duty down to -45 deg C. (316 L apparently being better for welding if over 6mm thick). Any ideas welcomed ! Rgds, Phil
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels 2 жыл бұрын
Can you give me an email address and I will able to give a fuller response.
@philhealey449
@philhealey449 Жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels Hi Bill, I sent email but no longer here, I assume you may have noted it and erased it ?
@defendermodsandtravels
@defendermodsandtravels Жыл бұрын
@@philhealey449 Nope. I saw nothing. Contact me at billnich1950@gmail.com.
@philhealey449
@philhealey449 Жыл бұрын
@@defendermodsandtravels Thanks, I'll email shortly Rgds.
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