RV Power Management Systems Overview | Pure 3 Lithium, Volta, Ecotrek, Xantrex, Li3 Energy

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5 жыл бұрын

Which RV energy system is right for you? Find out as Ultramobility reviews Volta, EcoTrek and more.
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For many people simple lead acid batteries will cover most your needs. 2 or 3 100ah AGM batteries plus a 1000w inverter allows you to run many DC appliances and some AC appliances. For power hungry appliances like your microwave or rooftop AC you'll need to start your generator or be plugged into shore power. The benefits of the simple lead acid battery setup is that it is cheap, serviceable and easy to operate. It's ideal for people who won't be boondocking for more than a day.
The cheapest lithium system that you can get into today is the Eco-Ion system by Pleasureway. At 200ah it is the equivalent of 400ah of lead acid batteries. The Eco-Ion system also comes with a 2000w inverter and a standard generator. 200ah or lithium plus a 2000w inverter is enough to run almost all your DC appliances and most of your AC needs including running your microwave off batteries. You'll still need to start your generator or plug into shore power to run your air conditioning. The Eco-Ion system is standard across all Pleasure-way models.It's also serviceable and easy to operator. Plus with Automatic Generator Start you have a highly configurable system that automatically starts the generator to recharge the lithium batteries when they get low. The Eco-Ion System is ideal for people who want to boondock for 3-5 days.
Coachmen's 600ah Li3 system powered by Xantrex gives you enough battery capacity to run you air conditioning off batteries for around 4 hours. There's also a second alternator to recharge the batteries but there isn't any remote start. The upgrade is $21000 but when you take into account that you don't get credit for many expensive standard features which are removed for the upgrade the total system price jumps to over $25k. The high price makes this system more expensive than Volta but gives you less battery capacity but it is great the Coachmen offers it on their Galleria.
At the top end of the battery capacity ladder is the 800ah EcoTrek system by Roadtrek and the 8700 watt-hour (effective 800ah at 12v) Pure 3 system powered by Volta for Winnebago. Both systems have battery packs large enough to power your air conditioning for over 6 hours before needing to be recharged. Both systems have second alternators for recharging the batteries and both systems have large inverters. The Volta system is newer and is a 48v system compared to EcoTrek's 12v system. A 48v system is more efficient with less energy losses from heat. The 54v alternator on the Volta system is capable of recharging an empty battery in under 2 hours. The Eco-Trek system would take twice that long. The EcoTrek system requires you to manage each 200ah battery bank manually for charging and discharging while the Volta system is much simpler to use with only a single button controlling the entire battery bank. The inverter on the Volta system supplies 30amps of current continuously which effectively means you can turn the system on and use both AC and DC appliances as if you're plugged into shore power.
If you require boondocking for weeks at a time or running your air conditioning for more than 6 hours then the EcoTrek 800ah or Volta system are best suited for these tasks. The Volta system is newer and simpler to use and is my choice if you need maximum lithium battery capacity.
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Пікірлер: 227

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Vote for the episodes you want me to work on. Look for polls in my Community Tab right here: kzfaq.info/love/HhAzHWdJpyWNHd1JuuofWwcommunity Find out how propane can help to offset the power draw on your batteries: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/abqifK5nz9zRhHk.html See how a propane powered 3-way refrigerator helps to keep battery draw lower: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rMyVlcZ8vJ7Lhqs.html Consider supporting me on Patreon to help me continue to create videos like this: www.patreon.com/ultramobility

@lennoxzayn8765 3 жыл бұрын

i guess I'm kinda off topic but does anybody know a good website to stream newly released movies online ?

@asamisael2720 3 жыл бұрын

@Lennox Zayn i use flixzone. Just search on google for it :)

@lanechandler9469 3 жыл бұрын

@Asa Misael yea, been using FlixZone for since march myself :)

@lennoxzayn8765 3 жыл бұрын

@Asa Misael Thank you, I signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I appreciate it !!

@asamisael2720 3 жыл бұрын

@Lennox Zayn You are welcome xD

@marjoriehall9984 5 жыл бұрын

I'm just blown away by the quality of your presentation--the graphics and expert analysis are first class. Thanks so much for putting this into such a detailed and easily accessible format.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

you're more than welcome. i think the graphics help to digest this complex information and make it easier to digest so I'm happy to put the time into creating them.

@30AndAWakeUp 4 жыл бұрын

I have an 11,600 watt Volta system..it's pricey but it really is, as you say, simple and very efficient. I have no power needs and everything just works. I really dig it. Thanks for the honest review. Even when I don't agree with you on some things...I respect what your saying & your reasoning for it.

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@Primogen1 5 жыл бұрын

Neil...I just can't say how good and informative your videos are enough! You make understanding how RV manufacturers put their vans together, the quality of them and the ins and outs if how they are manufactured. I can not imagine what people go through if they don't have a source like your videos to guide them. Thank you for being willing to wade through so much info and making it easy to understand! Please never stop putting these videos out. :-)

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

wow that's just very kind of you to say Magic Journey. Thank you. I hope to continue to be of service to the community for as long as you all let me!

@free2bfree583 3 жыл бұрын

Best video ever - to understand RV power options. I learned more from this 17 minute video - than from past 17 months of research. Seriously. Thank you so much...

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@cocokai9661 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you Neil, this is the video I've been waiting for! For those of us that aren't electrical engineers all of this can be confusing and overwhelming. Thank you for putting it into terms I could understand. Have a great day!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

you're more than welcome cocokai. thank you for watching my videos.

@calcal5135 5 жыл бұрын

One of the best ever van life videos. Thanks, Neil. I am viewing It twice!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

that's very kind of you to say Cal Cal. Thank you.

@Shane-zn4hm 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for putting this together, you are awesome!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

you're more than welcome shane! thanks for watching.

@mahfah7911 5 жыл бұрын

Wow no RV Manufactor could have made this video as simple. Holy grail video for power management for newbies. Amazingly well put with diagrams. I do wish you would include advanced RV which partnered with Volta with some modifications. They are usually on latest tech. Fantastic video like always!

@spellmadam2947 5 жыл бұрын

I really paid attention! lol This stuff is so foreign to me but I am learning. It's like a new language. Thanks for sorting so much out for me. Great info as usual.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Spell Madam thank you very much for letting me know. I appreciate when viewers let me know that they have found my video helpful.

@stanleywharton3251 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for a great review. Good to have a comparison of all options in one place. Been looking for something like this for a while. The graphs are great and the explanations are clear. Let’s me make a choice based on my style of RVing. Keep these reviews coming.

@YellowLab1 5 жыл бұрын

Invaluable presentation Thank you

@wendyclark2463 Ай бұрын

This is SO helpful, Neil! Thank you!!!

@VarosVapor 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent comparison, interesting to see these side by side.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thank you VarosVapor. Glad you have found it helpful!

@dianneharris2870 3 жыл бұрын

excellent review of the powersystems--thank you!

@pattiwalker9702 5 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the delay in responding, I watched this when they're only 14 comments. You exceeded my expectations on the subject. Great how you reviewed each type of system in the current Class B per manufacturer. Love the graphics to help explain. I plan to watch it again and again until it's absorbed. By then they'll probably change it all hahaha. Thanks so much Neil this is just what I needed!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

glad you find it useful Patti! thanks for watching it again (and again!)

@bryceb8331 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Neil - First I want to thank you for your amazing reviews. Best available on the internet and they have been an invaluable resource for me as I work towards a purchase decision. Second - I thought you might be interested in checking out an alternative type of AGM battery that not many people are aware of outside of the boating community. Firefly batteries are AGM lead acid batteries, but they feature a patented "carbon foam" plate. Basically without going into a bunch of technical stuff - these perform much closer to a lithium battery than a typical AGM. The manufacturer actually recommends that these can be discharged down to 20% of their total charge or lower (instead of the standard 50% recommendation ). In addition they charge faster than even the best AGMs like Lifeline. I have been using one in my offload teardrop camper and it's awesome. I'm absolutely not affiliated with the company or anyone in the RV industry btw. I just did a ton of research on batteries and came across these. They are expensive (around $500 for a group 31) but as you get almost double the amp hours they are a really nice alternative to lithium without going all the way up to that cost. Not as good as lithium, but a great in-between option.

@olehpankewycz2515 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent video Neil! So much great information!!! I really value what you have taken the time to share with us!! Sorry to see here how under appreciated you are for what obviously is a well researched vlog--over 10,000 views and just under 1000 people took the time to give you a thumbs up!!!!😳. Clearly people didn’t want to do the hard work themselves-- hang in there- 👍👍👍👍some of us really appreciate the effort you make!!!!🚐 Betsey P.

@moondog303 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome video Neil!! So helpful and informative. This is the reason I come back to your channel every time. Thanks for all the great insight.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

moondog33, wow that's very kind of you to say. i'll keep trying to make videos that keep you and others coming back. thanks for watching.

@mudpie8104 Жыл бұрын

I love this information and how it is presented. I wish you would do an updated presentation on lithium systems as they should have matured in the last 4 years.

@242rox12 5 жыл бұрын

First time viewer. LOVE the information. Very well put together and I am definitely subscribing to your channel! Look forward to seeing more of your content. Again, great job! Very impressed my friend!!

@justchickenitout6509 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the text, it was so much easier to find what I was looking for; especially since we already bought a different lithium battery (Battery Born) and have a little class C. - We “Liked” it.

@shirleyvargas1117 5 жыл бұрын

Best review ever on rv electrical power! This is a major concern for most people buying rvs and knowing what you need helps you make a decision. It’s easier to balance out between the rv look and rv electrical capacity. Thank you.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

many thanks for saying this Shriley Vargas. Glad that you have found the video helpful.

@alanmunoz8961 3 жыл бұрын

Very useful info! Thank you!

@danath3 5 жыл бұрын

Que buen video!!! Felicitaciones Señor Neil.

@joegutierrez9066 5 жыл бұрын

You’re a Pro, thanks for a very informative presentation

@ronzeta1497 3 жыл бұрын

This was such a helpful guide! Thank you!

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@michaelgehrke9297 5 жыл бұрын

You explain things wonderfully . I always look forward to your videos .

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thank you very much for saying that Michael. I really appreciate it.

@karenmason1731 4 жыл бұрын

Great information, clearly presented. Thank you!

@jackmac66 3 жыл бұрын

Neil I am a new subscriber, I cannot thank you enough for your invaluable content thank you

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

Welcome!

@allentowngal4769 5 жыл бұрын

another great video! Lets me make up my mind regarding lithium systems. I definitely think the extra money for lithium seems worth it. Thanks!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thank you Allentown Gal!

@divya2677 5 жыл бұрын

VERY INFORMATIVE 👍👏

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

many thanks

@thuff3207 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this review. You did a great job describing what is available for RV owners. For me the higher voltage batteries really improve the efficiency of AC conversion giving you more of the energy in the battery.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

glad you enjoyed this video. I enjoyed making it.

@gbryant261 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent presentation, very informative. You really do provide a very valuable service. I also liked the photo-bomb with the guy in the upstairs window. Yea, I am a little strange ;-)

@maxa.million1991 4 жыл бұрын

Neil, Ultramobility, your videos are among the best with outstanding specs. and unbiased reviews. What I need to know on an up-to-the-minute report is which Class 'B' van makes the top of the list for boondocking. However, I must add a few must-haves. No.1 bathroom wet or dry, 2. HVAC (efficient & quiet as possible) 3. 4x4 dually, 4. 21ft. if possible. I have heard that in some Nat. Parks vehicles over 21ft. are not allowed on some roads etc. as well sometimes 4x4 is required? I also have a question many of the videos are old and very old, in today's changing tech almost on a daily basis why don't you take the irrelevant ones down? Really any video on solar and boondocking and batteries 1 year or more is basically worthless. Thank you for all your hard work and please keep it up. Again you are easily one of the best.

@slptp 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent episode. Just excellent. Thank you.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

S. Lane Porter glad that you found the episode helpful. thanks for letting me know.

@ruthleclere2596 5 жыл бұрын

As always ....great information....thanks Neil.......

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Ruth, thank you for being a subscriber and watching.

@brianwhitaker6040 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Neil great review. My new motorhome I pick up in 3weeks has Lead acid your review confirms it will ok running lights and fridge thanks again a great review

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

brian so excited for you! congratulations!

@rvboondocker2559 5 жыл бұрын

Great video Neil, thank you.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thank you for watching john.

@gosmall.livelarge 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, great video. I liked the drama-free, and what seems to be a fair, unbiased recommendation. As a new Travato GL owner with the Volta lithium system, and only 6 days experience with it, I can say the GL is worth every penny. The simplicity and freedom the Volta system provides exceeds my expectations thus far, and those were high expectations! Thx for researching and making the video. Power ON!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

many thanks for sharing your thoughts on my video Go Small. Live Large! I listen and learn from my viewers.

@gosman949 5 жыл бұрын

Where does the Travato GL fit into this hierarchy of energy management systems?

@gosmall.livelarge 5 жыл бұрын

Jay G. , according to Ultramobility’s “lithium energy ladder” the Volta lithium energy system was at the top of the ladder. And Ultramobility has given the Travato pretty good marks in the past. Be sure to check out Ultramobility’s Travato-related videos!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hey Jay. the Travato GL like the KL uses the Volta system so it's basically 800ah (at 12v) or (200ah at 48v) or thereabouts. it's 8700watt-hours.

@camilleking5011 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, really appreciate your videos. The camper reviews are so helpful. But this video is even more so since it compares several models. This really helps me discern the difference between several models which, when reviewed individually, seemed equally right for me. As an East Bay Area resident, I also really enjoy seeing you broadcast from my neighborhood haunts! Thanks for sharing your time and expertise.

@chipsutcliffe7110 5 жыл бұрын

Very understandable and organized info. This is a topic you are going to have to revisit frequently, as it seems to be evolving quickly. It wasn't long ago that running A/C on solar was not an option.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yep and I plan to! new systems being upgraded and introduced regularly. glad you found it useful.

@travelprint 5 жыл бұрын

👍 This is fantastic Neil! Thank you so much for this review. I'm very interested in this market. 🤓 I look for to updates as prices drop and Technology improves.✌️

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

that's a good attitude. the new WATT fuel cell system is also going to advance things considerably.

@1bike10 3 жыл бұрын

Lots of good info here.

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@kjlcycler 5 жыл бұрын

Enjoyable video on multiple levels. The neighbor photo bombing kept me entertained:) I’ve gone a different direction-a Sunset Park RV SunRay 109 for $8K new! Under 1100 pounds dry weight and easily under 1500 loaded. This thing is basic, but loaded in 12’ total! Off topic I know...

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Kevin, there's no one RV that's perfect for everyone so the RV that you're describing sounds great! under $8k cannot be beat! think of what you can do with all that money you save!

@ceciland7773 5 жыл бұрын

Awesome summary! Thank you! I’m considering getting into a class B rig in a year or two. I’ll be leaving apartment living completely, and solo full timing with my dog. The rig will be my “everything”. I’ll still be working where I’ll have to go into an office though. Here in the southeast, that’s a big deal. I’m going to keep an eye on the reliability of the new pure3 system used by Winnebago. It’s overkill for many people, but for me, it’ll be the only way to get into RVing a few years before retirement. I should probably wait a few years longer, but patience isn’t my middle name! Hahahaha!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

i'd look at rights with the volta system (winnebago travato L series) and the excellent xantrex system (Fleetwood/Midwest automotive and forest river/coachmen) both systems are excellent but you will have to pay a premium for them. however they are designed for folks like yourself who are willing to pay for that premium because they absolutely need it.

@betterbusinesssc 5 жыл бұрын

Dude...you are awesome! I can't find a dealer or salesperson who knows any of this.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

you're more than welcome. thanks for letting me know!

@mitchcollins2947 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent, well done

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thank you!

@badguy1481 5 жыл бұрын

VERY valuable presentation. Certainly...a "keeper".

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thank you badguy1. i'm glad that you feel this is a keeper! i hope so!

@mishu3271 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Neil. Fabulous comparison in the systems 👍 I particularly like that you mention proprietary issues and the extra cost for no credit on other systems not used in the building of the rig (even the home building industry does this). Now multiple your numbers by 30-50% for Canada, even though two of these rigs are made in Canada and you can see the problem Canadians having in affording these Class B’s esp as new. I have recently seen yt Nomads receiving these very expensive systems for free. Not having to pay for a $20,000+ system can surely change your perspective or objective evaluation. I am a person who requires ac for health conditions but not suited to crowded campgrounds with hookups. Seems like we’re not quite there yet for me. I am thinking you left Watt fuel cell for its own episode?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yes WATT will be another episode. viewers will have to vote on it though i don't feel they will not vote for it! still i left it out with the intention of it being its own episode.

@colleenkaralee2280 5 жыл бұрын

Hello, Neil, and thank you for helping me make sense of the batteries available. My main concern is keeping the 6 cubic feet refrigerator freezer running 24/7 while boondocking for a week. A/C is not a need where I am.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

with enough solar you should be okay. i'd say you need at least 200w but preferably 300w or you need to start up and drive around a bit to recharge via the standard alternator. both viable and not much effort.

@fastbackharry994 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you a great review, i wanted to chime in here. If and i say if you were running the A/C at full 68" degrees on one full charge the Ecotrek will last 4 hours not 2, also the Volta will regen cycle up to five times which is more cost-effective than an Onan generator. We have found the Roadtrek client to be more energy conscious and go without shore power and running regen to charge the batteries and to be self-sustained for more them 6 months at a time. for less than 10k. Also the unit will warm the batteries and can operate under -2o for a cold start. None of the other systems can do them, built-in, and can be started remotely from a ket fob and close range or Mycar app off of smartphone. so the argument of not being able to run AC all night is a total uneducated assessment.

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

thank you for sharing!

@Sonnyboy346 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent presentation. It will be interesting to see if the new fuel cell system will change things.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hi, john. it will definitely change things. can likely get rid of the generator which the fuel cell would replace.

@davidgabrie1302 5 жыл бұрын

Hello Neil, I know you put a ton of time and energy into all the video's you do, as you can see by the comments...there is a great appreciation for your work, and you present it in an unbiased way. Have you ever considered doing a complete review of Motorhomes? I'm suggesting a grading system of class B's and B+s because that is your forte. I'm looking to purchase some type of guide on the quality of Motorhomes and Campers and so far I've only found one person that produces such information. You know a lot of the Presidents of RV Manufactures, you have an excellent Idea already of which companies are better than others, so a guide that rates Class B's would be something the consumer would appreciate through sales of such a rating guide. I hope you consider doing this, I can't think of anyone else I would like to buy a guide from. Thanks, Dave

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

David - that's very kind of you. if I could find a publisher I would!

@stevetag6572 3 жыл бұрын

Coachmen’s Galleria states 8 hours of run time with a Dometic AC A/C. Then they state 10 hours with a 12VDC A/C. 4 hours of run time would be at 100% running per hour or ‘always on.’ The Galleria battery is the only UL LISTED battery, safe for inside living quarters. Most folks will run at night and get the long run time. The Volta battery is toxic nickel cobalt and must go outside and thus be exposed to the elements such as super hot asphalt.

@michaelfeitt9643 5 жыл бұрын

Niel, once again another excellent review as per all of the endorsements below. The one additional build that would personally be interesting would be how quickly PW and other manufacturers will be migrating to the watt or similar fuel cell system from UK as a quiet replacement to generators could eliminate much of the need for the substantial increases in lithium battery storage. As always your expertise is much appreciated.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

it'll be interesting to see. most will wait to let Roadtrek be a pioneer and work the bugs out first. but I know that dean over at pleasure-way said that he found it interesting.

@michaelfeitt9643 5 жыл бұрын

@@Ultramobility Fuel cells for this type of application have actually been in market for a while as "efoy" out of the uk has a similar fuel cell for all the same applications that runs on methanol cartridges for use in boating, RVs and right up to commercial applications so hopefully the idea does not take too long to catch on.

@ChristianTravelers 5 жыл бұрын

Best Comparison Review of Advanced Power Systems! Wow! Fantastic Job! (Now, how about your #1 recommended setup for retrofitting an older van to lithium?)

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

i'm glad that people are finding this video valuable. that's what i want: to help folks out as best as i can. thanks for watching.

@tontoschwartz6916 5 жыл бұрын

Quite an excellent presentation Neil. It all does boil down to what your needs are. I love the in depth look at each system. GREAT graphics. Your PW bias is showing though, LOL. But granted PW is the best built RV on the market with a 5 YEAR warranty which should make buyers sit up and notice what they offer. This is the best common sense look at electrical systems ANYONE has presented, and you do it very well. thank you.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

wow very nice of you to say Tonto! thank you so much for letting me know. I appreciate it.

@tontoschwartz6916 5 жыл бұрын

You are welcome. I do have to add that I had conversations with James from The FitRV. As an electrical engineer he strongly stated that you DO have to understand and consider what your needs are when RVing. He told me specifically that I could go with the standard the AGM batteries with 200w of solar for my particular needs. I believe we are being pushed to buy these highly expensive systems when we may not actually need them. Yes, I hate the generator and its noise BUT with this basic system I will have one available IF I need it. AND I can add more solar and upgrade to lithium when I am ready. Plus I can buy a good used B Class for $60K that has already been upgraded and had all its warranty issues tended to.

@greytourist5650 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent Neil, a top notch return to form. A good, factual comparison between the available systems. A few things that might be of interest to viewers: These advanced energy systems may have hidden penalties associated with them. For example, the Pure3 system reduces the OCCC (occupant and cargo carrying capacity) of the Travatos by about 200 lbs (8%) and the fresh water by 4-5 gallons. Might crimp extended boondocking. A/C usage may be reduceable by the use of heavier body insulation, reflective window films, amd better windows. I doubt that I'd worry about total battery module failure on advanced systems like the Xantrex and Volta. Why would the manufacturers of these systems - who bank their reputations on system reliability - delete apparently prudent redundancy otherwise? Overall, the draw of the systems like the Volta and the Coachmen is convenience. Generators are noisy, smelly, annoying lawn mowers and require fairly intensive regular maintenance if not regularly used - just like lawn mowers. Removing a troublesome component of the total energy generation picture is a worthwhile plus to some buyers.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thanks for sharing your comment with others greytourist.

@markwilkins9048 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, thanks for your video, it was very informative. Having watched your video and several others that review power systems, plus spending the past couple of days at the California RV show, I would like to say I am closer to deciding on what Class “B” RV to purchase. I’m not quite there yet. I love the build quality of Pleasure way, I love the openness of Winnebago Travato, I love the , “blah, blah, blah,” of other manufacturers. I would love to say money is no object,,,,but that is just not true. However, I don’t mind paying extra for what I need. This will be my first RV purchase so I can’t draw from past experience. I am retiring in a couple months and plan to travel the country with my dog. I suspect I will need to boondock every now and then for a few days and will need to leave the dog alone in the RV for 3-4 hours at a time. I believe I will likely be away from home for about 3 months at a time. Would love to hear your recommendations on power systems. I’m pretty sure AGM with generator is out of the game. Keep up the great videos,,,,!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

very excited for you! the rv lifestyle is awaiting. just keep watching my and other videos and doing your research. test out models and follow things that you learn here. you'll find the perfect rv for you!

@toptobottom247 5 жыл бұрын

Roadtrek updated this system as we speak. Keyword being "Watt." I was in Pomona for the show. With the Watt system, you don't manage anything. It takes care of everything power wise. Also, I heard a rumor that the Kodiak solar generator can take on all your air conditioner for 4 hours.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

need to learn more about the kodiak solar generator. do you have a link?

@paulhughes1064 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, thanks for the review it was very informative. My only disagreement is that non-generator electrical systems are not just for people that boondock for long periods. The analogy I am using to evaluate RVs is similar to when I bought my e-bike. I could have bought a lightweight premium bike and added an inexpensive gas powered motor to assist for the same price that I bought a heavy e-bike with an integrated electric motor and battery system. I understood that the battery alone was 1/3 of the cost of the e-bike. I use the electric assist constantly. However, if I went with gas-powered assist I would have rarely used it. Similarly, if I had an RV that had a generator I think I would rarely use it. For example, I would not be one to ask my Harvest Host if I could use the generator, but if I had an electric alternative to the generator I would not even have to think about asking the host.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yep I think there are others like you as well Paul. that's why it's good that there are so many options available out there from inexpensive lead acid batteries all the way up to huge lithium capacity systems. thanks for sharing.

@johnpuccetti9383 5 жыл бұрын

A lot of good information. I would just add real life use and whether some devices work as advertised is essential. My experience with Absorption refrigerators they should be avoided as they will not work in un-level situations and are extremely slow to get to temperature. The three AC systems I am familiar with or so loud you will turn them off and go outside and sit in the shade. Onan propane generators seem to have a lot of issues the worst of which is they will not even start if your propane tank is less than half full what good is a generator you cannot count on.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hey there. thanks for sharing these experiences. for my part i haven't had any experiences with my 3-way refrigerator not working on pretty unlevel surfaces. I've not let my propane get down below 50%. i'll see one day if i experience any problem with the generator starting.

@Moira_Gloucestershire 3 жыл бұрын

Tesla Powerwall: - Energy Capacity 13.5 kWh. 100% depth of discharge. 90% round trip efficiency. - Power 7kW peak / 5kW continuous. Quick backup transition. Pure sine wave output. - Size and Weight L x W x D. 45.3" x 29.6" x 5.75" 1150 mm x 753 mm x 147 mm. 251.3 lbs / 114 kg.

@dougmanck4149 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent and comprehensive information, well done! I know the parasitic drain of the BMS on the Eco-trek is fairly high as you mention. Any idea of what that draw is for the PW Eco-Ion system? Also I need to reread the PW info, I remember it as rather confusing (to me). Seems like they say the BMS protects the batteries (as it should) but at the same time, you need to disconnect the batteries in cold weather as you mention in the video.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yep i really wish they'd put in a more capable bms that manages the disconnect of the battery in low temperatures. that was a pain in the rear for me during the winters to manage.

@terryharrigan6324 5 жыл бұрын

One point worth mentioning (Lead acid vs Lithium), the lifetime of the battery types are quite different. Over a 10 year lifetime you will have to replace Lead acid batteries about 3 times vs the Lithium lasting the entire period. So for half the capacity lead acid will cost about the same as Lithium. So your up front costs of lead acid is lower but over time, about the same.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

thanks terry for sharing that!

@lorcro2000 5 жыл бұрын

Quite possibly the TCO works out in favor of Lithium. Most people won't be careful with their lead-acid, which means they won't keep the charge level well over 50% at all times. If they don't, their lifespan is gutted, so you may wind up with more than three replacements. Plus, of course, that day to day life with Lithium batteries is much more hassle free as well. You can basically just live your life and forget you have batteries until 10-15 years later when it's time to replace the pack - but even at 10+ years, the pack should retain 80% of its original rated capacity. That can easily be enough for many people so they can get another 5-10 years out of the pack, perhaps.

@larrytillick952 5 жыл бұрын

Not true. If you take care to not do a DOD below 50% very often, a good AMG setup can last eight years or more. I speak from experience not guessing. Also, LiFePO4 batteries are very costly at about $1800.00 for 200 amp hours worth as opposed to $700.00 for usable 200 amp hour AGM system(2 - 200 AH batteries) as is that fancy battery management system. Costs matter...a lot.

@terryharrigan6324 5 жыл бұрын

One could say the same thing about LiFePO4 lifetimes. In fact, most lead acid life times are based on 50% lost of performance while most Li lifetimes are based on 20% power loss or still more than fresh lead acid batteries.

@lorcro2000 5 жыл бұрын

Some people prioritize the many benefits of Lithium, like the ability to use very high currents with no problems. For that you need Lithium. For instance, you can run an induction cooktop just fine off Lithium, even a small 200 Ah Lithium system. Lead-acid batteries (invented in 1850, by the way) can neither charge quickly or drain quickly. Taking the Volta system as a benchmark, you can run very power hungry stuff for hours on end for days on that, and then just an hour or two of high idling your engine will use their 58 volt custom alternator to recharge the battery packs fully, after which you can go for days again before needing to do that. Lithium is not just much longer lasting insofar as lifetime of the cells, they're vastly better in many other ways. And let's just mention weight, also - 400 Ah of lead-acid will weigh three or four times more than a Lithium system. That translates to worse MPG, as well. At some point you just have to look at whether or not you want a great experience and a hassle free life, or if you want to save a few bucks. Many RV'ers would rather pay for the great experience.

@dmhollenback190 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Neil, all good information. I just spent a week trying to get information about my Go Power display panel on my 2017 PW ascent. The panel showed that there was no power getting to my Lithium batteries from the solar panels. Turns out the fuse in the panel had blown basically reducing my solar panels to non functional. Can you help with any information for others as to what to look for as you are boon docking? What amp we should be seeing for an input into the batteries depending on the sun light available ? My panel shows one battery but I have 2 is the panel right or is this for another axillary battery? Thanks Dave Hollenback Ascent owner in Oregon

@davied5496 5 жыл бұрын

Also check out the Carado Banff. I see you can get the volt start with an induction cooktop.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yep all Hymer brands I believe have EcoTrek available as an option. Not sure about Sunlight tho… have to double check that.

@richardburguillos3118 3 жыл бұрын

Very nicely done. Great presentation. I know it’s a couple of years old, but still very helpful. I’ve been looking at the Winnebago Boldt which I believe does ha e the capacity to run the AC over night assuming you go to sleep fully charged and assuming it actually has to run full time. Have you had a chance to look at this model?

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

thank you

@alanmunoz8961 3 жыл бұрын

Any 2021 update on this very useful presentation? Thank you!

@Moira_Gloucestershire 3 жыл бұрын

Tesla powerwall

@benvernick 5 жыл бұрын

This video is going to get a ton of hits, well done Neil. 👍. Something I’ve never quite understood, if you have your generator ON and your AC on as well, is the generator powering the AC directly or is it powering the batteries which then power the AC? Watts, Amps, Volts.....it’s all French to me.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hey there ben. on my Ascent the generator is directly powering the AC via the inverter. on the EcoTrek and Volta systems as well as Xantrex I'm pretty certain the batteries are powering and the generator is recharging the batteries.

@benvernick 5 жыл бұрын

Ultramobility I’m just struggling to understand why anyone would ever need a battery system like the Volta, Li3, or WarpDrive EcoTrek. It’s so excessive! My god you could buy a brand new VW GTI for that kind of money, it’s insane. And if your stuck and desperately need AC, just turn on the generator. I watch a lot of videos by Bob Wells from Cheap RV Living and he does a great series on how to keep cool in a van without AC. There are other options. Fans, van covers, etc. And he’s been living in a van forever has no AC and hates the heat. Worst case scenario you drive up in altitude where it’s cooler. I just can’t imagine spending that much on a battery system....unless I win the lottery 😀.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

well what you're saying is well said. most people don't need lithium to be honest. lead acid works just fine. you can get 400ah or lead acid and do almost everything except run your AC. larger lithium packs are needed for running your air conditioning for hours on end. many won't need that but people in the South do. that's why I reviewed the KL the way I did but got burnt for it ;-)

@toddwmac 5 жыл бұрын

I'm trying to think of a new accolade or phrase of appreciation that I've not seen repeatedly all across your channel. Maybe that says exactly what we want to say. :)

@lorcro2000 5 жыл бұрын

The Volta system is indeed sweet, although they don't use the more chemically stable Lithium Ferrous Phosphate batteries, they use actual Lithium Ion which is more explodey. But then again, so does Tesla in their cars, it's more energy dense so you get more power in a smaller battery footprint. However, it is possible to get comparable utility out of a battery system if you DIY and you can then cut quite a lot of the price. For instance, you can buy 1000 Ah worth of LIthium Iron batteries from China; Winston batteries kind of spring to mind. Such a pack is maybe $5-6000, and you need to add a few hundred bucks worth of BMS (battery management system), and of course make sure the rest of your equipment is Lithium friendly. It's not quite as slick as the Volta, but since you can get a system like that for probably half of what you pay for the Volta and get pretty much the same or at least very similar utility, well, for handy DIY:ers it may still be an option.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Croft, thanks for sharing this information. it's true that the Volta system uses automotive grade lithium batteries while most others in the RV industry use the less expensive consumer electronic grade lithium.

@sethfinkel4003 5 жыл бұрын

This is really great Neil. Very well done. Why did you skip 6 volt lead acid batteries? Don’t they offer an affordable upgrade before lithium.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yes. 6v lead acid batteries offer the same benefit. it just takes more of them as compared to say 12v batteries. that's all.

@fredwalterson4789 5 жыл бұрын

Great presentation and information...well done. I do, however, feel you neglected an important concept, and I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. I've done a lot of research and have a history with Lithium systems. Looking at the van market, I came away with a different perspective. I just don't have the time or inclination to do a comparison video of this quality. . Pleasure Way and Road Trek have the cost advantage, no doubt, but Road Trek's manual system is at best hard to manage, and at worst, could cause damage for those who 'forget the switches'. Pleasure Way does not eliminate the clearly under-powered generator, so that's not a Li system as much as a Li battery. While capable low-cost options, either one couldn't be considered by me as a usable "explorer's system". . As far as Coachmen and Winnebago, let me offer my perspective. . I like both systems, but Winnebago uses Volta, which is a Lithium Cobalt (LiCoO2) battery. The independent folks at batteryuniversity.com rates this chemistry highly volatile, much more so than the Coachmen's Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4), and LiCoO2 should not be stored at full-charge voltages (anyone with a drone, or even a Tesla can attest that when storing, these need to be discharged significantly before resting for even a couple of weeks). So, when extended camping on shore, or storing on shore, how do these systems ensure the battery discharges, and remains somewhat discharged? From my research, they don't - which will shorten the life of the battery. This lack of discharged storage leads me to conclude LiCoO2 is a non-starter. LiFePO4 is not as sensitive to full-voltage storage. That leaves The Coachmen system. The downside of the coachmen system is 1. no engine start (though the chassis is diesel, so that could be a whole other problem). 2. lack of integration with the lighting control panel. 3. cost. 4. limited size (I sure wish it was expandable). However, a 600Ah battery in the eGen should keep the ACs running all night except for those 100 degree nights where the AC cycles too often, or never shuts off. But these shortcomings are workable. But the final piece, most importantly for me, I like the eGen system for having the only UL listed battery in the lineup...That's important for safety-minded people. . Again, thanks for the video. I came across this as a suggestion from a friend based on my research and will subscribe for more future content. Again - Well Done!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hi there - thanks for sharing your perspective. I like the Xantrex system but feel that Coachmen needs to be up front with people about the additional costs they incur by not getting credit for the standard equipment that Coachmen removes when you upgrade. that's my biggest problem with the Coachmen implementation of the Xantrex system. But in general I really like the Xantrex system and kind of prefer its implementation over Volta.

@20cbwestiesden50 5 жыл бұрын

I don't boondock. But the ability to run A/C on battery to keep my dogs cool is one of the key features that lead to my Hymer purchase. The reason is very simple: I don't feel comfortable running generator in any public parking lots, including National Parks' , regardless I always checked with park rangers first. That noise is just too obnoxious.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yep a lot of people feel the way you do. i'm hoping the WATT fuel cell can help to eliminate the need for a noisy generator and do it economically.

@zonacrs 5 жыл бұрын

That's a great breakdown Neil, thanks. I'm curious if the folks over at WATT fuel cell are looking into designing a 30 amp hour "generator" with an RV plug, could render this moot or at least change the game rules.On the surface it sounds weird, but I think the market would be there for a bunch of RV's that have the baseline AGM setup. The biggest thing being no quiet time issues.

@zonacrs 5 жыл бұрын

Think merging the Inergy Kodiak type system with the addition of fuel cell plus solar when available. We may already be at the point where that is doable. Battery capacity would be the key.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

you can hook the WATT systems up in series I understand.

@jkbushtx 3 жыл бұрын

Hi would it be possible to do a ‘noise’ review of the air conditioners, the ONAN generator in the new 2021 Coachman for example it says The a/c and the generator are 40 - 60 percent more quiet... and then of course, is it worth the money? There is also a new 12 volt a/c That is supposed to be whisper quiet... just a thought. So appreciate your you tube channel...

@doodledogish 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Neil; putting that together must have taken so much time. I am curious whether these drop in lithium batteries with built in battery management systems (BMS) from companies like Smart Battery, are a workable solution for switching out AGM batteries. It just sounds too easy, and not that crazy expensive.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yes they are. that's basically what Pleasureway is doing. much less expensive.

@juantamad1662 4 жыл бұрын

What about using Watt fuel cell pros and cons?

@lionelgarcia2386 5 жыл бұрын

Great segment! Oh man. A lot to learn about power systems. Want to have as much power as possible as a standard feature on a van I purchase. Lexor FL, Wonder RTB, Paseo, or CrossFit. Then will want the ability to upgrade. Either during purchase or after market. For instance, adding an inverter, larger alternator, additional solar, and lithium. I will need to view this segment several times. Thank you for your insight!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hi there for what it's worth only the CrossFit gives you a lithium upgrade along with an underhood generator and large 3k inverter. the lexor has 200ah of lithium but that's it.

@lionelgarcia2386 5 жыл бұрын

Ultramobility This is a complicated issue for this newbie. Trying to corral an understanding. The CrossFit upgrade seems very expensive. But as you point out performs well. The ease of the Eco Ion system is pleasing. But not sure if I can upgrade any Lexor components aftermarket if I decide to pursue. For example secondary alternator, more powerful inverter. Believe I can always add more solar even if portable. Yikes, a lot to learn. Thank you again for your insight. Appreciated!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yep I understand. i'd say it's going to be easier for you to try to determine what you think your electrical needs are going to be. upgrading later can be done but it can be tricky and sometimes costly. some people won't need lithium. others will needs lots of it. some people will have the money and won't care. they will want the convenience of never having to worry about battery power. for others, cost is a real factor. here to help you and answer your questions.

@lionelgarcia2386 5 жыл бұрын

@@Ultramobility Hi again. Can you tell me if it is necessary to use a power "surge protector" either portable or installed for Class B Vans either with or without an inverter? In a Class B like the PW Lexor would you know if there is room to install a hard wired surge protector near the power cable? If a surge protector is necessary, I would rather have one hard wired onto the coach. Thank you.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Lionel. I never plugged into shore power when I’m at a campground. I’m always Boondocking. That way I don’t have to worry about water pressure or surges. But if you were to plug into the campground I would highly recommend a surge protector. I don’t know anything about having one pre-installed into the rig but you can get portable ones that are small and inexpensive and easily stow away.

@LarryFlorence 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, would very much appreciate a comprehensive review of the WATT propane generator and management system. Do you see this system as a game changer in regards to electrical generation and management in conjunction with solar & lithium banterry banks? Cost/benefit, ease of use & reliability. Will this be available exclusively on the Roadtrek line of will it be available to other coach builders? Very interested in this newer development. Thanks for a great job.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

Larry - will definitely do that in a future episode once I learn more!

@rasriniv 5 жыл бұрын

Can you comment on what Winterized mean for Class-B RVs? What would happen if I drive a Pleasureway or a Roadtrek in cold climates? Will the water tanks freeze?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yes if you don't winterize it by putting special rv antifreeze into the system. it's straight forward enough to do.

@robertsheward9336 4 жыл бұрын

Well that answers some questions. I wish you would've talked about a cheaper system with the addition of a back up energy supply like the Goal Zero Yeti 1400 or 3000, my wife and i are considering purchasing a Winnebago Solis and thinking of adding a Goal Zero Yeti 3000 so we don't have to rely on shore power for our 120 vac needs and since The Solis doesn't have a Lithium/inverter option! What are you thoughts on that Neil?

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

you don’t need either. lead acid is perfectly fine. you can get a portable inverter for yourself if you need it. it’s just a matter of convenience really.

@charlesmiller6281 5 жыл бұрын

Pleasure Way seems to have the best, most well thought-out and reliable system. It does however leave you having to run a noisy generator from time to time. There are probably technical details lurking, but a relatively simple upgrade would seem to be to swap out the noisy generator for a near silent WATT catalytic converter. The WATT has a much smaller 25x12x12 footprint, weighs only 46 lbs, and seems to use the same electrical and propane hookups PW already has wired into the generator space. It would even seem possible to add a third lithium battery and still be less weight and space than the generator. The only drawback I can see is the WATT is 500 watts vs 2500 or more for the generator. But this disadvantage disappears when you realize its silent and much more efficient so can be used a lot more if needed. Four solar panels, one WATT, maybe one additional Li battery, it seems would be power aplenty for long boondocks in nearly all conditions. Interested to hear what you think. Very interested to know what Dean Rumpel thinks too!

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

if you want to run your A/C then you'd need to rewire some things in the pleasureway since it doesn't run off batteries but only shore power and the genset. i'm sure it could be done. the positive thing about pleasureway's setup is that it's the basic lead acid battery setup with just lithium batteries dropped in so enhancing the system is easier than say on a more proprietary system.

@charlesmiller6281 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks, did not know about the A/C and shore power. No shore power for me, boondocking all the way. The boondockier the better. Within the limits of XLTD safe travel, anyway! I have about a year to figure this out. If by then I can't find the PW XLTD I want used then I guess I will be in talks with Waters and Rumpel to see just how far they are willing to go with a few mods like this to a new build.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

sounds good. in the meantime my channel's here for you!

@dennisboyle232 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, was wondering why any RV full timer would buy solar systems installed on a new purchase RV since they pay more at the dealer and don't get the 30% Fed Tax rebate as they do after purchase when it is their main home? This could be especially important for people entering RV full time who finance their RV to deduct interest as well

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

I guess mainly for convenience so that they don't have to do it themselves.

@taewoolee3547 5 жыл бұрын

What about roadtrek 's option on CS Adventurous B camper van , regarding AC unit under carriage ?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yes that is available. what's your question?

@calcal5135 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Neil. Have you done a episode about insurance for Class Bs yet?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

not yet cal cal though i'm going to have to since i'm going through that right now.

@felonybebopclub2182 5 жыл бұрын

love your channel but im confused,u state that a propane fridge on a basic 12 volt battery draws amp hours?,,,keep going love it

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

a compressor refrigerator doesn't use propane but consumes about 4ah of power to run its motor. a propane refrigerator uses a lot less power but of course uses propane to cool.

@felonybebopclub2182 5 жыл бұрын

NO POWER AT ALL RIGHT?,,OTHER THAN PROPANE,,NO ELEC?

@michaelswedick4144 Жыл бұрын

Looking for your video on the inverter, stop charging the battery

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

which video?

@ednapuckett1042 5 жыл бұрын

In Class B RV can I replace a regular microwave with a convection microwave?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

there has to be enough room. convection microwaves need more space because of the extra heat from the heating element to handle the convection.

@rasriniv 5 жыл бұрын

Have you seen the new WATT Fuel Cells from Roadtrek? Is it even available? And how will that play into this video about RV Power Management? Comments?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

yes watt is available from roadtrek today. will do a separate review of it as I learn more.

@5290harp 5 жыл бұрын

Did I miss something? What recharge time would it take to bring back a large lithium battery bank after overnight ac usage? And what source of power would that be? An alternator for how long a run time, or Solar charging of what size solar wattage and for how long? It seems to me ac on batteries is only a one time event....tell me I am wrong..... And boon docking is not usually a one day event.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

with volta you would need to drive around for around 2hours to fully recharge a depleted battery pack. for eco-trek more like 4 hours. for eco-ion maybe 2 hours but that's because the battery capacity is around 2400 watt hours. solar charging does little to help recharge larger battery capacities. for capacities under say 200ah then solar helps quite a bit.

@5290harp 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Neil. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the cutting edge nature of your work here. If one were moving from place to place, charging the batteries from the alternator, then using the ac in the evening or night. But you would have to run the engine while boon docking, or be on the move, on free lunch here. I traveled across Florida and Texas in July this year and I could not have survived without ac at night (shore power). Two alternators working at once would be a ton of amps...... but the alternator for the engine would stop producing big amps when the engine battery is full, right?

@bobslaney9589 4 жыл бұрын

Which system is used on the Tellaro (same as Sequence)?

@Ultramobility Жыл бұрын

i’m not sure

@MH-df6cs 5 жыл бұрын

Sir, what is an underhood generator? Is it another name of gas generator(installed underhood)?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

it's a second alternator installed in the engine compartment that is dedicated to charging the house batteries.

@MH-df6cs 5 жыл бұрын

@@Ultramobility I really appreciate your quick answer, sir.

@calcal5135 5 жыл бұрын

Very practical question: Who needs to run AC overnight? Or at all?

@snorrisputnik1282 5 жыл бұрын

Well, for one, women who have hot flashes. . .

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

cal cal - folks who live in the south and don't necessarily want a van for traveling out of the heat. also folks who are using the van to live out of.

@DMosesRN 5 жыл бұрын

you speak of roadtrex does this mean that these systems can’t be used on the LTV unity MB ????

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

hi diana - the ecotrek system by roadtrek is only available on roadtrek and hymer brand rvs. it is their proprietary system.

@a2zandbackagain334 5 жыл бұрын

Sure wish Pleasure Way would beef up their system some. Great review. Really makes it difficult to match the ideal coach to meet our needs with the ideal power system. Never really had that with the traditional AGM set ups.

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

that's a great point. in the early days everyone had lead acid batteries so it wasn't a selling point. now energy systems vary greatly and you have to balance that against the coach itself.

@greytourist9657 5 жыл бұрын

Neil, you've made a good stab at the "goldilocks" queston - what is the correct size for a generator-replacement system, but it strikes me that there's a huge gap in the demand side that doesn't comport with buyer's desire to buy something bigger than a couple of AGM batteries but less than a full-on Pure3 or Xantrex system. How realistic is the desire for an $8-10K Li generatorless energy system?

@Ultramobility 5 жыл бұрын

you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. you can't really go generator-less unless you step into the EcoTrek 800ah or Volta 87000 watt-hour systems and those are in the $22k range. Anything less than that capacity and you can't run your air conditioning for less than say a couple hours maybe 4 hours with the Xantrex 600ah system. the 400ah EcoTrek system at $10k is pretty expensive considering that you can't run your AC for more than a couple hours at most off batteries. then you're going to spend a good 3-4 hours driving to recharge them again.

@greytourist5650 5 жыл бұрын

Appreciate your thoughts! This is the conclusion I've been coming to - there's no real middle ground. The great advantage of the Volta and Xantrex systems is that they fast-recharge - 90 minutes at high idle or while driving. Early reports on the Volta systems indicate that even short duration errand-running is enough to restore a couple hours A/C use. But to do this, you have to install a 2nd alternator and high capacity inverter/charger boxes. There's an inherent $6+K "chassis generator" charge on top of the $1.5K/100AH battery costs - 1.5K*10 + 6K = $22K! No one's getting greedy, here...it's just that practical Lithium battery systems are much more expensive per kWH than Lead-Acid plus generator.

@onthegroundtraveladventure5953 5 жыл бұрын

RV lithium power systems are like buying a Tesla, I just can’t justify the cost/benefit scenario. I will continue to opt for Onan and AGM batteries...