Saito FA 120R3 New engine, New problems

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Saito FA 120R3 New engine, New problems

Рет қаралды 12,647

Күн бұрын

Hello, my dear viewers and subscribers ! This video is continuing the story of Saito FA 120R3 radial engine, after dismantling, cleaning and assembling. This engine is practically new, having just an hour or a bit more of operation on the bench, in nice weather conditions. Anyhow, during the previous run, engine had shows some unpredictable behavior, for example, all 3 cylinders shows different temperatures on the thermogram.
So, let's watch the whole story, probably, some of you could know, what could be the reason of such engine's behavior ?
You advices are highly appreciated !
Thank you for watching !

Пікірлер: 52

@warbirdflyerF4U 11 ай бұрын

All of the Saito radials have The same intake distribution problem You have to get the modified rear back assembly From ray English or Morris Mini motors

@crazyengines88 11 ай бұрын

Hi and thank you a lot for your advice ! I've some ideas, to to find tune this engine, to make fuel distribution much more even. Will report, when it will be completed. Thank you and have a nice day !

@warbirdflyerF4U 11 ай бұрын

You're welcome I really enjoy your channel As I am quite the engine guru Myself ! Perhaps if you look at some of the parts made by these 2 gentlemen You could make your own modifications ! It would certainly be to your benefit to at least talk to Mr. English As he has multiple design contracts with saito ! Keep up the great videos

@crazyengines88 11 ай бұрын

@@warbirdflyerF4U Thank you for your comments, I am pleased and I really appreciate them! I really love all these engines, and it’s even difficult to say which ones are bigger or smaller, they are all beautiful, and in my opinion, all of them are the top art of precision engineering and design. Thank you again for your kind words and best wishes for a nice day!

@xKmotx Жыл бұрын

Since #2 lights off every time you apply the glow igniter battery, I would get a digital glow driver for this engine. It will heat all glow plugs at whatever RPM you set it for, usually a lower RPM, which will prevent any glow plug from going out. On my FS-400 radial engine I use a glow driver from Microsens Electronics, based in Germany.

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment ! As usual, a few versions - reasons "why" were appeared in my head during this test run. One of them - glow battery doesn't supply enough current, only this probably, could explain such engines behavior. But what's strange - even with sagged glow battery engine easily starts by hand 🤥. This fact a little bit disappointing. Of course, next runs I'll arrange with freshly recharged glow battery. But current battery also was fully charged 🤥. It consists from 3 D size NiCd cells in parallel, each 10K mAh capacity, so in total it's 30K mAh ! So strange...I've few DC/DC converters with 8 Amperes current, next time will install 3 of them to power the glow plugs.

@beaufruguglietti5047 Жыл бұрын

Just got one of these little engines. Was very impressed, very good motor in my opinion. But I did notice an immediate issue with the supplied exhaust system. As you know, only one tube has an exhuast pressure nipple and of course no baffle or cone so my theroy is that the exhuast is not able to pressurized the fuel tank as it should. I found this because on first start I noticed only one cylinder had enough fuel so I went to turn the high needle out and it was very unresponsive. I gave the the fuel line a pinch and the engine tried to die, a clear indication of a lean mixture. I think an exhuast with a nipple placed at a collective of all 3 cyliders would solve the problem, an exhaust ring would be a resolve to the issue as well.

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you a lot for your informative comment ! I should say, that in general, Saito FA120R3 is a very nice engine, but it will need a lot of additional work and tuning. According to me, uneven fuel distribution - it is a sin of these R3 models. Uneven cylinders temp clearly confirms, that all 3 cylinders are working with the different fuel/air ratio, usually, #1 runs a bit overlearned, #2 is more or less OK and #3 usually runs very rich and episodically, quits.

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

Hi there. Can you explain to me the practice of pitching the fuel line. And what it means.cheers dave

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

@@davidmifsud645 Good afternoon, dear Dave. I don't use this practice of pitching the fuel line very often. In fact, by pitching the fuel line a little, you reduce the amount of fuel entering the carburetor, thereby making the mixture leaner, which should lead to increase in engine speed. If the engine immediately stalls, that means that you need to adjust the carburetor. From my practice, it is better to start engine tuning by resetting the carburetor settings, i.e. "from scratch". Usually, manufacturer describes, how to reset carb setting in engine's manual. Have a good day !

@TheMrzekerz Жыл бұрын

Hello there I've got the same engine and ran into the same problems with the second cylinder. This is due to the fact that, indeed, the fuel distribution is uneven. This is unfortunately by design of the backplate by Saito. I've tried everything but finally decided to purchase the modified backplate by Morris Mini Motors. After recplacement the FA120R3 ran instantly better, particularly the mid range but also a nice steady idle. My infrared camera showed the second cylinder with the same temperature as number one and three. Keep in mind that this engine with the modified intake manifold needs a bit richer slow speed needle setting.. just slightly

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment ! Definitely, it's very important information about this engine, thank you very much !

@TheMrzekerz Жыл бұрын

@@crazyengines88You're most welcome! In addition, the design of the Morris Mini Motor intake manifold is to make sure each cylinder receives the same amount of fuel. Overpriming (more than 2cc fuel in the intake before the start) may well lead to a fuel lock in the fuel paths of the manifold. It's a small but powerful engine therefore adjustments should be implemented with small increments. Keep a infrared thermometer and tachometer at hand. Succes! 😊

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

hi there. I just bought a saito fa120r3. exact same problems. so the morris intake solves this issue completly. Its so expensive converted to aussie dollars,nearly half the price of the engine but if it solves this issue i suppose i have no choice. pity we cant just modify the original.thanks so much for for input. cheers dave.

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

@@davidmifsud645 Absolutely agree with you, thank you for your comment ! I'll try to find the simple way how to fix this issues, probably, this week and will report about the progress and the results. Stay tuned, please ! Have a nice day !

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

@@TheMrzekerz Thank you thank you very much for your kind advises ! As far as I understand, the most advises are very helpful and realistic ! Will take into account your precautions about over priming, thanks a lot !

@morueyv Жыл бұрын

All these Saito 3-cylinder radial motors have the same problem: cylinder 2 is oil-soaked due to the direction of rotation. The rear crankcase must be modified to allow suction in the main crankcase. So you have to drill the carburetor channel into the crankcase, drill through the inlet tubes to communicate with the crankcase. There is then a better balance between the intake of the 3 cylinders, a better lubrication of the connecting rods and this prevents an excess of oil in the crankcase which enters the cylinder 2 by the spin effect of the vilbrequin. Use maximum 10% oil.

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment and advice ! It is really practical and could work, I think. So, next video will be for sure dedicated for the different way's to fix the problem. Thank you, very much appreciated !

@ya33a Жыл бұрын

Is this the same as the R325 as well, or does the swirl plate in the rear of the engine mitigate this problem?

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

@@ya33a Hi, thank you for your question ! FA 120R3 and FA 325R5 utilizing completely different design of a fuel distribution manifold. FA 325R5 has a special "turbine-like" impeller, which driven by crankshaft, and this impeller pressurize and "atomize" fuel mix. I've video, which is dedicated to internal design and construction of FA 325R5, the role and design of impeller is described here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hNuIe6R_v7_Pfqc.html and here:kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtqXZNF61qyUg4k.html . From my personal experience with FA 325R5. it's far more sophisticated design wise and works much better, than simplified fuel manifold design of FA 120R3 or FG60R3 engines.

@protek5060 9 ай бұрын

This is the same design as for Fa170, 200 etc.. You know from your previous videos that it´s the fueldistribution causing it. Get the modified backcover and the problem is solved. Morris mini motor in UK are selling them.

@crazyengines88 9 ай бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment and suggestions ! I know, that M.M.M. was developed and producing modified fuel distribution manifold. But at first, it's enough expensive, and at second, I'm not sure at all, that this could fix all the problems with such design. Some time ago I bought modified prop flange for Saito FG 60R3, with corrected ignition magnets placement, it was installed and tested, but engine, according to me, was changed its behavior just for a little. So, I'll try to find another way to modify engine design, to eliminate such behavior. Thank you a lot for your comments, have a nice day !

@waiheke109 Жыл бұрын

Cool

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment !

@danielhitchens4407 Жыл бұрын

Its a tough challenge to get running correctly..i have a new fg19r3 its being a tota pain slowly number 2 is getting more stable.but i have some fueling issues and put that aside.. My saito fa120r3 converted to gas has always had off idle load up from sitting..this engine runs the fg19r3 carburettor. I had the carb apart and there was some blockage at the end of the spraybar so cleared that put together and gave it a tune up..its now making 500rpm more and barely a load up from sitting idle ..

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment ! Great and interesting information for thought ! So, I'm still collecting advices, how to fix the issue. I think, that it's very practical ! Really appreciated !

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

Hi CrazyEngines..Love your videos. I bought the same motor a week ago and i have the identical problem. From my research thus far it appears that it is a fuelling issue and i believe that the morris mini motors modified backplate intake is supposed to sort this issue out. Its a pity we cant just modify our own backplate manifold to sort it out ourselves. Its a bit shit that saito sells these engines knowing they have fueling or air issues. cheers dave from australia

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your nice words about CrazyEngines channel ! Highly appreciated ! Regarding Saito FA 120R3 issues, I've some plans, how to try to modify engine's manifold backplate, so just stay tuned. Really, absolutely agree with you, that manufacturer, being informed from it's customers and though it service /repair points, several times, hasn't react at all. Good reputation in business, for sure, important to keep sales figures high. Thank you and have a nice day !

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

@crazyengines88 I was going to buy the modified backplate from morris mini engines for 190 pounds. It's alot of money. Should I wait to see what you come up with. Are you confidant you can modify to solve problem. Cheers dave

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

@@davidmifsud645 Thank you for your reply. Of course, I'm not so sure at all, that I can modify engine's backplate, to make it work as it should. Definitely, only some attempt to make it will takes at least, few days, and there is no any promises, that it could be successful. So, if you already decide to buy modified manifold from M.M.M., there is no need to wait for the results of my own problem research. Thank you, cheers !

@danielhitchens4407 Жыл бұрын

@davidmifsud645 i have used a mmm intake manifold and the engine ran alot better, but i converted to gas with mmm magnet ring and fg19r3 carburettor I now run the engine with stock manifold and didn't notice any difference really.. I guess these engines need alot of run time to get settled aswell..i have had a few problems over the time of running it. Ive put through 8 litres of fuel through the engine, that includes 2lt of glow fuel

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

@@danielhitchens4407 i just bought one online apparently there is a guy in australia Wayne at Oasis Model that sorts them out as well but i purchased the intake from mmm before i found out about wayne

@billjones3071 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video, it is helping me also, I purchased this engine new year’s ago and had the same issues and put it back in the box due to frustration, maybe I will purchase a backplate from morris mini

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment ! I think, that if you will give me few days, or week, as max, I'll try to fix this problem without purchasing modified fuel distribution manifold. Our subscribers gave me a lot of interesting ideas and the way's, how to try to fix this issue. So, please, be patient and stay tuned !

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

look up Wyane at Oasis models. hes in australia. i purchased the mmm manifold yesterday. unfortunately i found out about oasis models too late.

@WarbirdPiLOT Жыл бұрын

Try leaning the low end needle til the flooding of #2 cylinder stops..

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment and advice ! Tomorrow will try to do so...Very disappointed with so strange engine's behavior.

@WarbirdPiLOT Жыл бұрын

@@crazyengines88 Your welcome, I feel that all the saito radials are quite sensitive to the low end needle setting. You have to find the sweet spot where it runs the best...it's all a part of the hobby 😁👍

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

@@WarbirdPiLOT Very much appreciated for your advice ! I was in a minute to dismantle it again, to check camgear timings for that cylinder. Thank you !

@spyridonchristofilis7954 Жыл бұрын

Hello my friend, if we put only in the second cylinder on board glow and the spark plug has always electricity will this problem be solved?

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Hello, and thank you very much for your comment ! You bring me a very interesting idea, appreciating for that ! I'll will try to realize it tomorrow, thank you !

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

Just an idea could you put a hotter glow plug in the quoting cylinder. ? Cheers dave

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your suggestions ! Definitely, I used all possible options, and the hottest Enya #3 glow plug, and the longest G5, and YS#4, and OS A3 and with an increased glow voltage (over 1,5 volts). Does not work. A very, very rich mixture enters this cylinder. I have one idea, but in a couple of weeks I can try it. I think it will work if I correctly understand the cause of such a problem.

@carstensommer1315 10 ай бұрын

Saito engine full of issues get a Moki or UMS

@crazyengines88 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for your comment ! Definitely, agree with you - I've stack into a lot of issues with Saito's multi cylinder engines, especially, with R3 line. Probably, only the one engine from 3 - cylinder Saito's was FA 170 R3, with less problems. Anyhow, it also inherited some bad habits, but this wasn't so important. Thank you for your feedback, and have a nice day !

@davidmifsud645 Жыл бұрын

Quiting

@crazyengines88 Жыл бұрын

Hi, and yes, it's quitting. External igniter could return it back to operation, but not for long, it's seriously flooded by overreached fuel mix, and it's cooling down the glow plug. What a kind of curse...