No no, this is fine. Because Bruce Timm should catch flak for this like a zeppelin over London, FOREVER. Let him NEVER live this down. Because if we let him think we've forgotten, he might get it in his head to "get it right this time."

You can make it up to them by giving us the Arnold and Helga shipping video. Besides, one has to appreciate a good trolling every once in a while.

Don't worry, I forgive you. I'm glad that at least when I was unfortunately reminded of this crap it was because someone was calling it out.

It's so ironic for me that u made this video when u did, because I've been re-watching Batman:TAS, and I was literally thinking about how wrong this was yesterday because I was watching the Roxy Rocket episode, and Batgirl said some wild shit like "Once she has a taste of u, there's no going back"(amazing what they put in kids cartoons back then), and even Batman is lookin' at her like "Dafuq?", that should have been the end of it, but nope he smashes her anyway, in hindsight it's crazy how much they actually hinted at the ship too, also are u gonna do a video on why u hate Young Justice Season 4?

U fucking monster. Apology not accepted >: (

1.3k likes with no replies? let me fix that an entire year later

1.3k likes with 1 reply? let me fix that a day after the last comment.

Ngl it's kinda true

I mean Star is clearly the better option. At least she didn't sleep with his adopted father. (Also she's just way hotter.)

So I'm an outsider to the canon mostly only familiar with the DCAU, Teen Titans, and some of the more recent animated movies, so help me get this shit straight here. Dick Grayson is Nightwing, the one who bangs Batgirl and Starfire. Jason Todd is the one who came back as Red Hood. Tim Drake is the really young one who the Joker kidnapped and fucked up with Cadmus tech in the Batman Beyond movie. And Damian is the little fucker who Talia popped out. Did I get that all right?

Her having lust for Batman is creepy. and him being a sex predator is creepy also. i mean, WTF??

@@dusty5412 It’s creepy, but it makes a little more sense, since people can fantasize/lust for people who are older then them (specially at a young adult age), still creepy of course, but a lot more understandable than the old guy reciprocating the feelings.

@@dusty5412 So you mean to tell me that you've never, ever, at some point in your life, had a crush on a teacher, babysitter, or anyone of a significant age difference?

Completely agree. A teenager having a crush on a mentor/adult/teacher is normal as long as that's all it is.

@@dusty5412 truth be told, there is young girls who are into older man, in the end the wrong one will always be the responsible and mature adult who reciprocate those feelings

Starfire tweakin after reading this

**Double kill**

For this Batgirl and Batman will always be disgusting in my eyes. What sort of idiot decided to fuck his son's love interest? Even if she was an ex is still weird... Also she's nasty as well for playing with both of em

That is so horrible it somehow loops into being kinda funny. Like, was this timeline made like that on purpose?? did the writers just really wanna piss people off?

Wow didn’t even realize that…amazing how this ship manages to make one of the most selfish and narcissistic versions of Batman ever and makes Barbara look like she has no purpose but to be a ginger fetish fuel

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

@oliviaforrester2983 Damn! So, that means that what happened to Tim was basically Bruce and Barbara's fault. And Terry was the one that had to deal with the fallout of that. Things like this are why I'm probably the only one who has never liked TAS Batman as a character. Don't get me wrong. Kevin Conroy (RIP) did a phenomenal job providing the voice of Bruce Wayne/Batman. But how this version of the character has been written makes him so unlikable and detestable.

@@GabreyaThe original TAS Batman is a good character. I blame The New Adventures of Batman to be the downfall of a lot of those characters. Characters lost a lot of visual appeal, Batman was more like the Frank Miller depiction, and Batgirl is just the girl.

TAS Batman met Jim Gordon and Leslie Thompson the night his parents were killed. They were his anchors even as a child. That's why Bruce Wayne has his own relationship with Commisioner Gordon. Think on that time table and feel free to vomit!

People be complaining about age difference but still ship Wonderbat. :D

@@feelcollins4358 because their both adults and met as adults 🧍‍♀️

@@nyxdrawsthings6847 How does that change things? It's still a 5000 age gap. So if old Bruce met Barbara when she was an adult then it's fine since they're both adults? 😂😂

@@feelcollins4358 …yes, and if he wasn’t In a mentor, mentee relationship with her.

@TheGlassesPro In DC there are infinite paralel universes so Yes. If you’re asking “Is it in the comics” the answer is also yes. Look up “Batman the grim knight”. And you should find more info there.

That would be great to read. Beat the man that took advantage of your daughter

@@PirvateerKurei This also unironically proves that Gordon is more competent than all of batmans villains or the entire justice league combined. The Grim Knight (the evil version of batman in the story) is also claimed to be the most inteligent of the dark knights. Even smarter than the Batman who laughs. Main universe Gordon said that he would have done the exact same thing if Batman became evil.

@@cherechesalexdaniel811 Thanks for the recommendation, that sounds like a fun (and right after this video, a little cathartic) read!

Batman who laughs became oversaturated due to Dark Knights Metal. Then we have evil Punisher Batman 😂

Right, like actually I love Oracle. How we got there might have been shitty, but it is the best thing that's ever happened to her.

This peole believe that anything bad happening to a female character is misogyny, instead of, you know, a character arc...

I mean I wouldn't classify oracles role as being a detective

A:"what's wrong with being a sidekick? B:"Oracle isn't a detective, she's mission control, the one who provides information from online and hacking skills! C:"Oracle is a retcon, made by someone else. Can you imagine the outrage, if she straight up quit crime fighting instead?

@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon Nah i definitely could see why it was seen as misogynistic before, because back then there was a phenomenon called “fridging” where the women in comic books have horrible things happen to them to further the men’s development. Oracle was a good way to turn it around though turning it into actual development for batgirl

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

For all the reasons YES

No it isn't you sheltered prude. Probably got some headcanon going on that people who hate this usually have, which makes up Bruce being a father figure to Babara.

@@zerofudou5689 LOL like it is ok to sleep with ex of your son.

It enable the fantasy oldman put a seed on teenage girl… fuk its disgusting.

It comes off as predatory since he knows her dad when she was with little of before she was even alive.

Yes, god please! We need more of that in everything!

You have no idea how much I wish that happened! Actually, you probably do.

No arguments here. Unfortunately, that didn't happen because it got away of the wish-fulfillment.

We need to change what examples men are given as to what wish fulfillment should be

I've unironically seen porn handle the situation better

Yeah actually good point cause it seems like in DCAU Bruce Timm was desperately tying make this dumpster fire of a ship work instead just sticking to Catwoman the actual love interest of Batman

Why? Because Timm is getting more and more delusional with age. People keep praising him for DCAU and he bought into the hype.

They could have even explored Talia & Batman's relationship (the one where they were married & had Damian together, before Grant Morrison came in with the horrible r*pe stuff). Anyway, the tension between Batman & Talia or even Batman & Catwoman is enough to fuel a whole series. Literally no one needed Batman/Batgirl.

I think that the batgirl and Batman ship is just not possible without just completely changing Batman himself and the family dynamic they would have to probably make sure one robin never has a relationship with her and probably have to remove the connection to commissioner Gordon in order for it to be somewhat ok. I would say that Batman and Wonder Woman would be better or catwoman. Even if it is flawed.

@@gameoveror7970 To be honest, I think Bruce/Barbara could work (even if quite lame and uninteresting: I am not too puritan on that side), but the setup was atrocious. It felt like a writer's fetish. I was more invested with Bruce/Selina. Bruce seems interested to her (as she is his wife in his ideal dream in _Perchance to Dream_ episode), while knowing she is Catwoman. Yet, Catwoman flirts with Batman, knowing all too well it was a ruse to escape. So Bruce is unsure about Selina's true feeling about him. I think it was a really good and a better story to explore.

Fr

​@@Kazuma_kiryu311depends on the version.

@@Kira22558 ik

Bruce Wayne apparently

I agree

*Me, a Dick/Babs and Steph/Tim/Cass shipper* Nah, just let’s make it so Bruce ISN’T dating his sidekick.

@@repulser93 This

No mentor/mentee relationships

But Barba and Dick had a genuinely wholesome relationship tho... Before Bruce swooped in and NTR'd his son.

That's how it originally was

@@falconeshield and that's how it should have remained!

Agreed. Imagine the impact if Bruce had to awkwardly reject her and explain why they could never be a thing. It would show growth and solidify their work/platonic relationship, a temporary heartbroken Barbara who now has to get over her problematic crush, and just reaffirm the fans respect for Batman as the adult.

@@LisaNaniOfficial honestly, the killing joke would be made more impactful if the final moments he has with barbara are an angry lecture on why they shouldn't and will never be together. like, he chews out his protégé and the next day she's paralyzed. it'd definitely hit harder than "oh no, the girl batman just banged can't walk now :("

That would've been a little better.

Couldn't have said this better.

Agree! Bruce and Selina even make each other less messed up.

They flirt CONSTANTLY, either straight up or subtly.. I also swear there was like an episode or something where Catwoman & Batman got together but I could've imagined it.

Catwoman and batman work better because Bruce is always chasing crime while Selina is a kleptomaniac who can't help but commit crimes. They complete one another from a superficial point, and really play on the whole good guy seduced by bad guy with a shit ton of sexual tension.

There is so much more about their relationship then just a super hero and a thief. Catwoman by Ed brubaker is one of my favorite interpretations of catwoman and even goes into detail of her relationship with Batman. Highly recommend.

it's more annoying than messed up. same thing with spiderman and black cat.

That’s Shipping was ridiculous and insane

You must be young

@@richardshiflett5181 the hell does that mean?

Barbara: "You know, I used to have this huge crush on Batman." Bruce: "I had assumed at the time. That disappeared once you became Batgirl and learned you'd known me since middle school?" Barbara: "Yeah. All that crap disappeared pretty much instantly."

No it’s disgraceful, disgusting, and despicable.

Reminder that back when Infinite Crisis was being written they were _seriously_ considering killing him off and it was gonna stick. Right as Jason Todd was being brought back, no less! Thankfully it didn't happen but the damage was done and he got his whole town nuked.

@@sndark6241why do they hate on my boy Nightwing so much?

and the dumpster fire that is teen titans go robin. that robin is literally a joke, the butt of all joke. no thanks.

For real 😮

Yeah, I mean she is basically his adopted mom!

The thing is, Babs is also pretty close to Bruce's age. With Catwoman you have the awkwardness of Earth-2. There, Dick started seeing her as a mother figure pretty much during her first appearance. Considering his numerous attempts to murder the Joker were foiled by Batman in another story in that same issue...(What can I say? Dude has professional pride, and the Joker is an insult to circus performers everywhere.)

ew ew ew thats his stepmom wtf

@@parrotenthusiast1181 Let's kick this up a notch: Black Canary saw him in the shower once and complimented his appearance. So, for those keeping track, she's basically Speedy's mother. In fact, Nightwing is the godfather to Speedy's child. So yeah, this whole thing is getting a bit too Game of Thrones. But then there's how Chuck Dixon forgets Barbara's age when retconning her and Dick as having dated when they were younger, but remembers her age (and her Ph.D.) when writing her teaching Cassandra Cain how to read.

@@jonbrewer297 wtf that’s basically her sons friend.. dc writers why are you so creepy

During the story of drakengard the protagonist has a sister who has a crush on him... Thing is he really does not and near the end she kills herself because he doesnt correspond to her love That game is really dark and fucked up but i think it really does well when covering dark subjects The director said in an interview that he did this because he hated the sister tsundere troope from animes and manga

It’s not just that it’s a mentor/mentee relationship. It’s that it’s BATMAN AND BATGIRL. Like wtf????

The truth is bruce is only 8 to 10 years older than barbara Gordon and thomas wayne are from the same generation Bruce isn't

@@heroeus8173 Yeah but he is also her mentor, father figure, dad's friend, and knew her when he was well into adulthood and she was a minor, no CallMeCarson type shit either.

@@vergilsonofsparda3019 father figure? If barbara needed bruce as a father figure it would mean that gordon did a bad duty as dad which i think isn't the case People tend to be shock by it Because they imagine bat girl being a little girl She was a woman when she f*ck with bruce And that's that My only issue would be that bruce knew that sleeping with barbara would hurt grayson But at any moment Bruce didn't pursue barbara People just tend to idolise batman too much

You don’t need representation to see yourself in a character. That notion that you need to have a character to be exactly like you to see yourself in them or identify with them is ridiculous

@@ninjafrog6966 I never said exactly like yourself. I said being disabled, which is a pretty low bar in a genre where they're always beating each other up. Booster gold, for instance, also got disabled when they ripped his arm, but it got retconned. Many characters become paralised or lose limbs or some other disability, yet they're only retconned to be perfectly fine if they're a hero, because writers don't want to deal with disabled rep and how to write authentic stories about disabled people. Only villains aren't retconned (see: Harvey Dent, for instance) because it's very easy to write a villain around a disability (vengeance, being crazy, being mentally unstable...) but it's much harder to write an authentic, heroic and earnest story about being disabled., with all the difficult conversations that can come up around it From your comment it seems like you've never needed representation in your life because you've always considered it the statu quo. I will not assume which kind of person you are, but that's how it comes across. You don't need a character to be exactly like you to relate to them, but you need characters like you to know people like you exist, and that they're going through the same issues you are. take care.

My only problem is that a single bullet *in the gut* was enough to make her unable to walk. We could've just had a "Oh and she was shot in the legs too BTW" or "The Joker hit her legs hard when she was unconscious to disable her, just for the *kicks* " (I'll see myself out) But nope. She got shot in the belly like, once, and that's enough to paralyse her legs. And considering the fact she is a crime fighting vigilante, she must have a physique good enough to withstand at least 1 bullet as long as it's not in an organ where the bullet would insta-kill her.

@@pkmntrainerred4247 I do agree with that, yes. Personally, my first contact with this particular story was the Booster Gold version, where he tries to stop this event from happening. If I remember correctly, Joker beats her down really badly in that version of the story, the bullet is just the cherry on top

@@tadesubaru1383 Hm, I guess at least *one* version of the story made it believable

100%

All the gay tension between them needs to be addressed outsid eof the Lego movie

to be honest I'd be all in for a weird, alternate universe psychedellic version of Batman and Joker that's fucked up and they have gay sex but they're not even gay. Like they just have a toxic relationship that is encouraged by each one's particular brand of mental illness and they don't even like each other, they just feel like they need to have this will they won't they relationship of crime and violence. A very psychological and dark exploration of the human psyche and Batman as a character

@@Doctor_Straing_Strange you're a little late several adaption has Joker as being canonly bisexual and gay, even the telltale Batman game played with the idea where this Joker has feelings for Bruce Wayne. We already had Batman as a communist villain, as someone who abuses Catwoman, or someone who has sex with Batgirl...elders story can play with the different ideas

@@exchangediary968 oh I know, but I wasn't talking about like a healthy relationship, I'm talking about some fucked up, unhealthy, psychological horror shit

Same like I literally forgot it existed then this video popped up and the flashbacks started again

@Xana if I was in the board room and the person who spat “Batman and Batgirl should fuck getting Barbara pregnant” I would’ve fired them immediately

@Xana do you remember that one scene he had with Cheetah oh my god this dude basically kissed a furry. Literally the only female character who makes sense for Batman to end up with is Catwoman like the way their relationship was portrayed in the Hush movie like that is really good but this Batgirl and Batman stuff no ew gross get that out and throw it in the sun.

@Xana this man is pretty much single in every iteration other than Talia but didn’t they separate idk I don’t read comics

Same.

Justice league is chronologically after that

Lmaooo i was flabbergasted when this scene came on as well and pretended it didn't happen at all

I watched this on my dad's phone and best to say that I had to make sure my dad didn't catch onto this and my reaction.

I already didn't like the killing joke, and that made it worse for me.

I'm terrified now

@QueenJuliRose yea for context batgirl/Barbara is literally Dick Grayson/Nightwing/Robin…..main girlfriend other than his “teen titans” counterparts…..she’s the girl you’d think Dick would end up with when it was all over….so two things i hate was yes what they did with her here in “the killing joke” is criminal….aswell as the “Arkham series” of games were they make her “Tim Drakes” love interest i hate that almost as much as the killing joke bs

Cosplayer was spittin

@@aex9516 And the laughable part that it's a joker who said it.

When the joker has a good point.

@@lawrencevalero8111 Lmaooo. I'd like to imagine that it was actually the Joker being pissed off at the writers.

@@Aidan_Infinity I just imagined a real-life version of when the Joker finds out Red Skull is a Nazi, but replacing Red Skull with the writer, all in Hamil's voice.

As someone with a limited understanding of the DC mythos, I have to ask, why? Why this one? This ship feels like a smut fanfiction you'd find on some weird sect of the internet, not something that should be taken seriously as an actual part of Batman lore. Or alternatively, it sounds like an exaggerated plot thread for a fake drama show or a dating drama parody.

@@flarestorm9417 youre so right

@@flarestorm9417 because it is

They'd love this guy on CW.

I think one of my biggest issues is that we don't see enough of Batman's pov here. I want to see some Bruce Wayne slamming his fists down yelling: "why did I do that!?" I want to see Catwoman and Dr. Harley Quinn rake him across the coals. I want to see Him Gordon go ballistic. I want to see Alfred lose his sh_t. Why are Babs and Tim the main ones getting all the consequences?

Drama..

Fuck the robot arm, Victor Stone was turned to fucking chili-meat and he was not only saved but turned into one of the world's most capable superheroes.

@@jacktheripper2537 Yes, I know the real world reason, but what is the in-universe excuse? This makes no fucking sense in universe!

@@thegreygoblin5165 Yeah, but that was turned from "my dad is good at robotics" into "new gods tech does weird shit" a while ago (but after killing joke, if I'm not mistaken). But there are so many heroes and villains that have some form of magic or robotics that could have been used to heal Barbs. John Constantine can bully God into healing his cancer (again) but Barb has to sit in a wheelchair for a few years? I mean, I don't mind the representation, but it makes no sense in universe!

Apparently in some versions she has a spinal implant that allows her to walk, but she has to rest it pretty often so she only uses it as Batgirl. Still, doesn't really make sense, but at least it's something.

Like you said, in some cases. There are versions when she's already in college, - or even older - by the time they meet.

@@OneGaurdian yeah but we're primarily talking about the cases where he gets with her after knowing her as a child,

@@OneGaurdian In college is still kinda weird cause most people are still transitioning into adulthood at that point. But knowing someone as a literal child and then pursing them once they’re legal is a whole different level of creepy and wrong.

@@rawr1131 it's only creepy of they had feelings for them when they were a child

@@SergyMilitaryRankings Well that’s your opinion. Turning 18 doesn’t make you a grown adult and a lot of people in college are still transitioning. So personally, if a grown adult meets the person while they’re barely legal and not even old enough to drink, I say it’s still creepy.

STOP IM LAUGHING SO HARD 😭

👏👏👏

*slow clap*

I laughed my ass off 😂😂😂

so not cool, but hilraious at the same time XD

Batman totally comes off as the type who would chew out an older hero for sleeping with their apprentice, not the type who would DO it. This ship kills me, it's just so out of character.

@@ellag3265 this was forced, it’s bullshit

@@ellag3265 totally. It sounds like such a contradiction and fanfic-ey.

If he sleeps with her he will feel guilty, and can be more miserable! Not bad, I wouldn't mind feeling bad over that! Would you?

Unless this is him self sabotaging his own life, which still makes this completely fucked-

Exacly. this might sound sexist of me, but, they just do that because she's a woman. you'll never see a love story between Jason and Dick for example, but with Barb it's completelly different. instead of having a sibling-like relationship with the other Robins or having Batman as a father-like figure (like EVERYONE ELSE in the batfamilly) she's just used as everyone's love interest.

@@hillboi5049 its not sexist of you to point out the truth of whats happening. Babs is the most popular female character associated with the batfam, so it happens with her more than the other ladies

@@hillboi5049 Just here. They don't do that for Catwoman.

The writers literally just treat her like the designated love interest, it's so frustrating, creepy and WEIRD, especially given what SC said: it feels weirdly incestuous. Like, Dick, Jason & Tim are generally considered siblings, and Bruce their surrogate dad. What actual person would date every branch on that tree? The writers don't seem to care how weird it would be especially for Babs & it's so frustrating. Op I'm literally not saying anything new, I'm sorry, I'm literally just so incensed by how fucking weird the batman writers can get

@@hillboi5049 It definetly is pretty gross and sexist.But its really nothing new for dc writers I mean these are the same people who wrote stories about Batman and Nightwing getting raped

Oh good I'm glad she's allowed to be smart again. Now if only they would bring back Stephane brown

@@Kris-wo4pj Stephanie is back she's just not going by Batgirl although right now there's a series with Barbara, Cassandra, and Stephanie called "batgirls"

@@skeletor4436 ah OK I've been out of the comics side for a while. Last I checked the editor refused to let Stephanie not be dead since he hated her or something even tho everyone else wanted her back as Robin or spoiler. Then again that was around the same time they refused to let batwoman get married in comics and refused to let batman finally marry catwoman after yrs of dating and flirting at all.

@@Kris-wo4pj Bruce and Selina are pretty much married they just never went through the whole marriage process and it does really suck batwoman was't allowed to get married

So much for representing disability among the superhero community. I think the reason why she was portrayed as Oracle for far longer than Batgirl is her struggle and rebirth as something far greater than an imitation of Batman. But of course some people wants the cake and eat it too. And who can blame them for being so blind that they would miss the point of a crippled standing firm above her stereotype. And perhaps even above Batgirl.

Please tell this to the ppl saying there’s nothing wrong

Which is fine. Don't need to be romantic.

Well Lego Batman is for kids...

Batman didn't know her when she was 13-14, she was 13-14 when Bruce last saw her

@@SanSan-jp1frthat means the same thing

I always saw the cavalcade in Beyond as "every woman Batman loves, even platonically". It's the only way I could square Babs being there with the rest. He loves her like a daughter, end of.

@@TheDanishGuyReviews I wish I could see it that way, but Barb confirms it was sexual with Terry the first time they meet.

@@arellajardin8188 I am so happy I don't remember that. It's icky, and I don't know how Bruce Timm doesn't get that. (Hail Mary here: Barbera was messing with Terry. Like how people accept River Song's idea of "You leave the Tardis brakes on" as gospel, when I always saw it as a prank.)

@@TheDanishGuyReviews Not only that, but in the Ra's al Ghul episode Barbara was part of Bruce's personal slideshow on his birthday alongside Zatanna, Catwoman, and Lois. In fact, Barbara was the last girl on there(and Bruce had multiple pictures of her and lingered on her photos versus 1 picture of the rest) and while he was still going through his Barbara album, Talia walks in saying, "I know you loved her, but I cannot believe you didn't save a picture of me as well." Plus the debatably canon continuation comic series made an even bigger mess, with the reason Nightwing left and doesn't show up in Batman Beyond was that Barbara cheated on him and got pregnant with Bruce's child while she was Dick's fiance... and then got a miscarriage after being punched while crimefighting.

They actually got defensive?

Unless its specifically shown, I wouldn't assume the "raising" part, but there is still the mentoring going on, which is also a problem.

It’s interesting because my mom was 10 years older than my dad and I never bat an eye to that until I got older. There was still a wierd dynamic in that too no different than the older man with younger woman relationship. Idk I guess it’s about maturity? But then again I wouldn’t date someone so far away from my age.

What raising part? She had her father all the time

@@heroeus8173 Guess raising as a superhero. Learning lessons from him by observation, leading by example. The commissioner can prepare her for the life of a police woman, not a superhero. Or are you suggesting Bats had zero impact on her growth?

@@ThePariahDark well in that case you can admire someone without having intimate feelings for them And it is very known that women in general like men with power It's like you are saying you never seen men that have authority and that teach women And those women dream to sleep with them We can't really call that raising If jim gordon was dead And by that connection Bruce took care of barbara since a child as a duty Then it would be questionable if they came to this type of relationship My only real problem is that grayson and barbara was dating at that time But barbara just monkey branch to batman And bruce knew that And he did say to grayson when both are coming to hands "That barbara make her choice" But i still understand Bruce on this one on a realistic purpose At any moment bruce never let barbara come to close Except that very night We idealise batman too much At the end of the night He has to put the cowl out and let Bruce wayne the place

My favorite batman fangirl depiction of her is in Harley Quinn (that's not all she is of course she's badass and intelligent and calm but fangirl is also a part of her character also i want to point out she doesn't lust after him she just geeks out like you would meeting your favorite celebrity)

I think it would've been cool if Batgirl was just in a wheelchair from the start in the reboot, unrelated to Joker, so then people don't have to connect it in some way with that particular story and we still get the rep. She could've been insisting she's going to be Batgirl anyway and Batman is like "OMG no" and then she'd go "you ablist; aren't you the smartest detective ever? Help me figure this out" and Batman's only response is a silent glare, sweating bullets internally, and Robin backs her up, and Batman glares at him and he wants to refuse again but he's wired to problem-solve so Batman is pondering how to assist her superhero lifestyle while his utter intent is to stop her from getting killed at all cost. And that's how we get Oracle I guess. Bat-fam scheme and plot to make her dreams happen together.

You just shouldn’t depict women in media like this, especially in the West it always just goes one way and if it doesn’t go that way in the show it’ll go sexual on the internet, you Westerners really need to wake up

@@Dovah_Slayer that’s a gross lesbo drama

@@alphaslayerzex3573 no we should just stop watching and consuming media like this, let’s face it we aren’t 10 anymore and the shit that’s starting to be shown and promoted is just outright harmful for everyone

Oo hi harriyanna

It seems it was necessary to expose all the overly judgmental people.

@@erikdayne5429 It ruins Batman’s character. You seem like you’re part of the problem

Not to mention that Bruce always blames himself when something happens to them. Like Barbara said in Arkham Knight "We are fighting with you, not for you" which is something Bruce doesn't seem to understand or doesn't want to understand.

This ship will NEVER be canon!

I think it would have liked to see batman see her as a daughter of sorts, so when the shot happens, it hits him all the harder.

Nope its a comission job not an anime

Most cartoons are animated in overseas studios, I don't think something counts as Anime until Japanese creatives get to influence the work itself (like in art design and story).

I knew people would skip right past the joke

So is G1 transformers

There are also Korean studios that helped with animation

Glad youre self aware and learning from their miatakes. Most people just go MY 42 YO DAD WAS IN LOVE WITH MY 16 YO MOM AND THATS FINE AND HEALTHY BC I NEED IT TO BE

@@stephaniewilliams6756 Seriously! I’ve seen so many of those comments myself and it makes me so uncomfortable.

Oh thank goodness someone who's in this position can agree. I hate ships with stuff like a 25 year difference, where each members' partner is younger than their kid/older than their own father. No amount of therapy makes that cool, lmbo.

@@spaghetto9836 Oh yeah. Believe me, the power imbalance is not lost on the kids of said type of relationship, too. I might not have known how to put it when I was a little kid, but I could definitely see that there was definitely something off.

@@forgetthedisharmony9740 no one wants to be the product of something disgusting

This. All of this.

You're right, Jim is the one that they are hurting the most in their so called "romance" because if he found out that Batman was banging his daughter he would feel betrayed by both of them. In fact Jim's biggest question of all for Bruce and Babs would be "How could you two do this?"

@@pedanticat9479 "This. All of this" what???

@@Historybuff-mx4dvI'm agreeing with their statement, XD

@@baymaxinarmor4133 Let's take into account in the most continuities Barbara dates his SON DICK which makes it more unappealing especially for those who love the dynamic of Batgirl/Oracle and Nightwing

She's not Superman's daughter or Batman's adopted daughter. (Hell, Commissioner Gordon still refers to Dick as "the kid".) Yanno? The sheer amount of fail here is enough to make me ship them out of spite.

When every other Robin is explicitly Bruce's child, and then suddenly they ship Batgirl with Batman...😖

He never adopted her

@@richardshiflett5181 The dynamic makes us feel like he did. Since there all apart of the same bat family.

I know batman collects children like pokemons, but he still can't adopt someone's else kid

I disagree. Age doesn't matter as long as everyone is legal. How can this be 2022 and people still discriminate against against age gap relationships?!! As long as it isn't illegal and both adults are consenting it's no one's business. Hasn't society learned anything from oh I don't know being incredibly hateful and discriminatory towards the LGBTQIA+ community for centuries? What society SHOULD have learned, but obviously failed to, is who other people love and other people's relationships are none of your business, it does not affect you in any way, keep your opinions to yourself as long as everyone is above the age of consent.

@@WhitneyDahlin Look up grooming, that's what's wrong here. Age differences are fine, but he knew her as a Kid and was effectively a second father figure to her. Helping raise a kid, only to fuck them the moment they are legal is not something anybody should support. I get your point, but there is a big difference between hate toward the LGBTQIA+ community and being disguested by Grooming

@@WhitneyDahlin A 60 year old met a 15 year old, waited for him to turn 18, and then started dating him. Is that not creepy to you? If it's not, Houston we have a problem- Do not compare that to the LGBTQ+ please, we will not be associated with creepy relationships and grooming behaviors, we get enough people trying to claim we're all Ped0s, we don't need you trying to actually make us support them like wtf-

@@theironarmada1308 Preach👍

@@theironarmada1308 thank u

Oh he did chew her out alright 😏 -god I wanna skin myself alive-

When I tell you how fast I closed my laptop and had a mental breakdown from the visceral reaction I had when that scene came on is honestly hilarious, I did finish the movie to see if it was even good in the first place, and it wasn't even good so I was highly disappointed that I had to go through constant cringing when seeing them or barabara together to get a whole bunch of fucking nothing

The fact he acts like her dad in some scenes

@@enderwalkgang it's seriously so 🤢

The animated Killing Joke was a Bruce Timm Batman and Batgirl fanfic with the actual Killing Joke tacked on to the end.

wait what happens in Arkham did I miss something?

@@wholethedogsout880 No, its just that Arkahm City makes you feel like a damn lion on a rock above herd of gazelle with a gothic symphony choir playing in the skies overhead XD Go play it if you haven't!

@@wholethedogsout880 essentially stealth segments in the Arkham games are called ‘predator segments’ you know like the whole fear thing that Batman goes for. I think the skill tree that focuses on stealth is also called the predator tree but I might just be making that up. I need to replay Arkham City, been too long.

Click noises*

@@Ellimist000 I wanna play this game now...

It’s so bad if it happened in the mainline continuity it would fracture the entire bat family even the secondary members like Cassandra Cain or duke would have issues with it

@@a.c.slater7989 I 100% agree, honestly I guess the upside is that all of the weird versions of characters that we do see are considered alternate versions of them therefore not messing up the main continuity too much XD

@@a.c.slater7989 Facts

@@a.c.slater7989 who tf are those 3??

@@a.c.slater7989 I can imagine Tim and Steph just yelling “What The Fuck, Bruce” at the top of their lungs. I can’t imagine any member taking Bruce’s side, except for maybe Damian. But even then…

And I like batman beyond and that just kinda hurts it a bit but not too much

I know right!?

also in the comic of beyond didn't he and Barbara sleep together while she was dating dick then got pregnant and that was the reason dick leaves for good and i think he forgave Barbara cuz she apologize but Bruce never did

I don't know guys he could be thinking fondly with those old pictures of past flings, with Batgirl in the new jet, in the kitchen, back of an alley, several rooms in his house, getting in and out of different costumes. I am surprised it didn't stop and show Bruce with a big smile on his face reminiscing. You have to think positively.

Bruce tim is a weirdo

This helps me sleep at night 😌😌

The whole Dick/Barbara/Kory thing is an absolute mess. I'm like a whole year behind on comics in general but really who it'll be seems to flip on a dime depending on who's writing and what book you're even reading. If it's a Titans book, it'll be Kory, but if it's a Batman one it'll side towards Barbs. I do however know that Convergence paired up Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths Dick with Kory whereas Post-Crisis/Pre-New 52 Dick got together with Barbara which... okay credit where it's due, that was kind of a cute solution, even if only as a one-time only thing.

Lmfao

And even then, Barbara acted and seemed to be an older and much more mature woman in that movie instead of the "half-teen" batgirl she was in comics.

Same lol 😆

@@KraziShadowbear true 😆

Continuing to prove that LEGO Batman deserves to be up there with the best interpretations of the Batman series.

that's is why I don't like age gaps. most of the fictional couples that I see with age gaps are between a young 18-20 and an adult over 35. This reminds me of those men who waited for the teenager to come of age so they could make out. It's so disgusting.

Ayo😂

He also appeared to have a thing for redheads. andrea Beaumont, roxy rocket, hawkgirl, Superman's wife in the adaptation of "the man who has everything" was changed from blonde to red hair and barbara gordon, lana from superman and Veronica Vreeland. If they aren't so important that it would become a main character ( except Barbara) he likes to paint his women red.

Birthday parties.

He usually meets Dick in his 2nd year as Batman, and Bruce is between 27/30, and Dick is usually 13. Either way, it's just fucking wrong on so many levels. I get carried away with these characters though, and I'm about ready to just sell my collection and stop fucking with comics altogether lol

@@aaronlisle3773 Post-Crisis it was his third year and Dick was 10. Pre-Crisis, first year and Dick was 8. The oldest before Flashpoint was 12, and that was Frank Miller's All-Star Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder. (Note that germane to this, Thrillkiller is an exception, but it's an exception to a lot of things. For starters, Barbara is Dick's mentor. There, Dick is 16 and Barbara is 20, and Bruce is 22. Dick thinks Bruce is a creeper, and Barbara shuts him up by pointing out the obvious flaw with his logic. The flaw this entire fandom has continuously committed for over 25 years now.) They met Babs MANY years later, in every continuity save for the New 52 (and whatever the hell Dixon and subsequent batwriters write about once Dixon felt the reactionary urge to wallpaper over people interpreting his Birds of Prey as a sapphic romance). Babs was already a PhD, and was at least 25. Where DickBabs starts to cancer up this place is, they want to keep Barbara's past (while constantly retconning Dick's past, and frankly stealing elements from one story and applying it to another, so it's told he was on a mission to Tamaran during The Killing Joke; he wasn't, and in fact, Barbara saw Dick and Jason shortly before, like it's a frame in a comic published a week before, but speaking of Jason, he was on a mission to a planet called New Cronus, related to Donna Troy, when Jason died) while also making Barbara 14 when she was shot, which also makes her six years younger than Dick, and a minor, and I'd say it makes me wonder why she's leading the Suicide Squad, but Danny Chase had top-level security clearance at the State Department.

Keep in mind they arent that far apart. In the final season of the animated series they directly say bruce is 30 at the end of that series. ANd its implied dick was 10 when he met bruce. So he would of been 18 or 19. 10 isnt that huge of a gap these days. I know many couples with 10+ difference.

It’s not creepy. You guys are just overly judgmental. Batman risks his life every day. If he wants to have a moment of joy with another consenting adult, I think you can put down your pitchforks and stop the victim parade for 5 minutes.

So, I saw "The Killing Joke" because it was available to view while I was on a plane. I also went in relatively-blind because I never read the comic and it had been the better part of a decade since I had seen B:TAS or BB. I "Noped" right the hell out, only coming back to it after watching "The Lego Batman Movie" as a palette-cleanser. ---- That said, I now have a morbid curiosity to have, like, the same story retold with one of the Robins. Hell, make it the Nolan-Verse where the obvious-stand-in-for-Robin is maybe not as old as Bale's Bruce but still a full-fledged adult. Bruce comes back to Gotham, gets with the detective, idk plot things happen, tragedy...profit!

Literally think of her as Jason in Death of The Family did he bang Batman? Nope. Was he a active participant on his death, close to the abyss and the whole think was catastrophic even though he wasn't truly the protagonist of if? Yes. Would it've possible to do it if he had banged Bruce? Absolutly not. So is Barbara

Writer two is Brian Azarello, he unironically said that

AND I LIKED IT! Fuck off. It was a good movie.

@@hawhafunnyraffs5568 it's true what they say. live long enough and you'll see everything never thought i'd ever meet someone who unironically liked the killing joke

@@jockeyfield1954 Sorry you don't like cynical edgy shit. You let Marvel and DC do this. They were aspirational heroes, and you let them become this. You voted with your wallet and this is where we are.

@@TupocalypseShakur Lol. Knowing Azarello's shit, it definitely come from him.

You wanna know what’s funny?, at the end of the movie he called her “platonic coworker buddy” 😂

Completely agree. I was a fan of Barbara's Batgirl pretty much since the 70s when I was watching reruns of the Adam West Batman series, growing up. I always liked her as Batgirl and read whatever I could with her in it. I bought Killing Joke when it came out and was a teen at the time. I wasn't mad I went with the flow. I was curious about her as Oracle and really liked her in that role. Then when Killing Joke was animated, I heard about the scene and wasn't happy about it. It wasn't necessary and felt like forced filler. They should have just left it out. This is the first time I've heard about her being pregnant with his kid. Glad they ditched that with a miscarriage. However that whole thing should have never happened. I liked her and Dick as a couple, and found it really random and odd that she married someone else in Batman Beyond.

I’ve honestly not read much into Batgirl’s backstory (apart from of course the basics as knew her most of all from The Batman series), especially in the long run. Only actually more relatively recently as in about two years ago, first discovered that she actually did eventually become paralysed. Let alone apparently, after a while, returning as Batgirl after getting perhaps treatment. Where exactly does all of this go down in any of the comic book stories? I’ve heard that apparently it happened quite a while ago now in terms of its graphic novel coverage!? Think I’ve read a little bit from something like the very end of the 90s or the early 2000s of something.

@@danielwhyatt3278 it was an ongoing arc that ran close to a decade between the killing Joke into late 2000's. Reduced down to a few minutes in a movie that the story doesn't even belong in. It was about a hero's journey that she chose to take on, having no tragedy or trauma making her into a hero. Instead the movie made her some kind of hot head who isn't in control of her emotions looking for validation from a mentor. Bruce and Barbara in the books were always kindred spirits that were a bond similar to brother and sister. She earned his respect as he did to her. To taint this relationship as one of lust for each other undermines both of their character.

Her return as Batgirl was “New 52 happened”. It didn’t completely retcon Killing Joke, she just got a “super-surgery”, something she actively declined for years because it wasn’t fair to the average person in the old continuity. It carried over when Rebirth happened and restored most of the old continuity.

@@amystreasuresdesign the Adam West Batman ironically had more respect to the Batgirl character than the animated killing joke did and that show was a campy satire of Batman.

so f*cking true

Lego batman movie was the best

Uh yes, i remember, barbara and bruce in lego was wholesome ship What's the age between them tho? In lego universe

@@kamadotanjiro3176 From what I could find Barbra is in early 20s and Batman, idk Alfred references him being like 51 in that one joke and a site (idk if it’s a relevant one) said early 30s

So lego Barbra is kinda older than a non lego Barbra? i mean, you can tell she's an adult because the way she's sounds, right?

doesn't automatically make it normal or appropriate......

Agreed

The son thing is what makes it weird. What a "Dick."

What if Dick was banging the alien at the time?

That depends on. If both parties are adults, then large age gaps is wrong. It’s wired, but not wrong if both are adults.

Bruce and barbara have only 8 years gab And also father figure? She had her father all the time The only thing is that grayson and barbara were together before That's all

@@10tailedbijuu i dunno, exploring batman’s psyche ?, as in making more parallels to how e’s also a bit looney. Anything but batgirl being hit on by anyone not gay. Or like, replace her with cat woman, and the drama makes a lot more sense. .

I mean he got his wifey Selina

Teenage girl and grow old man lol no @

I agree with you. I wish they portrayed Batgirl as Batman's daughter in the killing Joke. They could've focused on a different side of their relationship like : - He's always trying to protect her from the dangers of Gotham, making her frustrated and feeling like he doesn't trust her enough to become her own hero. - She's trying to become more than "the Batgirl" to him and tries to prove herself as an equal, making him distressed at the idea of loosing another child. Portraying Batman as a mentor, and father figure loosing the equivalent of a daughter would've been much more sadder and impactful ( while being less creepy) . It also echoes with Joker's loss of his family and child.

@@ness3547 in my opinion up until a point it did feel that way. So yeah

Honestly for me cat woman is the only one who makes it work.

@Milomondo actually I think most of the Batfamily is either indifferent or is cool with her, like Dick has actively endorsed it when they are together.

@@mikemorro140I mean it make sense she like the only rogue who doesn’t actively murder dozens of people on a weekly bases

Catwomen is the one and only that batman/ bruce in love, they are real couple

​@@gameoveror7970 Yeah, theft is far less serious than murder.

Yeah it's always that fricking one writer who brings this weird fetish

We all have a love hate relationship with Bruce Timm

It’s great

Yes! Read the Killing Joke comic! It's way better and a quick read👍

In the comics, she's closer to Bruce's age than Dick's.