Say no to CMYK. Why you shouldn't use it for your photo prints

Рет қаралды 20,402

Күн бұрын

Why there is no good reason for most people to convert images to CMYK for printing.
Keith addresses an issue he's been asked about by several people:
"Surely, if my printer uses CMYK inks, I should convert my images to CMYK for printing"
No, almost never, and if you do genuinely need CMYK you should very likely already know why.
How most photo printers are RGB devices and just need a good icc profile for the printer/paper for good results.
Basically if you use CMYK and don't know why, or didn't know there are different varieties of CMYK, then you are on very thin ice and probably shouldn't be using it (or at very least should read the book below).
This is part of Keith's collection of print related articles, videos and reviews covering printing, colour management and photography at:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/ph...
My absolute best source for info about CMYK is the excellent 'Real World Colour Management' [Fraser et al.]
It's a really well written book - you only need read the relevant parts, but it has been my number one quick reference source for over a decade.
If you use CMYK and don't know why, then you really should read this. yes, I know suggesting a book is heresy on KZfaq, but I don't care! ;-)
When might you use CMYK? - well, commercial graphic design and commercial print spring to mind. A sound understanding of colour management is required to reliably and meaningfully use CMYK. If the book above isn't available, Id suggest reading Martin Evening's Photoshop chapter on colour management - very well written
www.photoshopforphotographers....
I would regard a basic understanding of what's in this PDF as a pre-requisite of effectively using CMYK
-----------------
My articles and videos are always free to access.
Any help with running this channel is gratefully received.
If you'd like to make a small donation, I have a Kofi page:
"Buy me a coffee" ko-fi.com/keithcooper
-----------------
I also have some affiliate links which earn me a commission if used.
US Amazon photo/print gear: amzn.to/3l9vJC6
B&H Photo: www.bhphotovideo.com/?BI=2008...
Adorama: www.adorama.com/?...

Пікірлер: 130

@yuliyamulvaney4881 2 жыл бұрын

That's what I do, I draw all of my art in RGB and use a CMYK printer at home and get the best quality! No POD has been able to match thay quality even when I've submitted work in CMYK as per their requirements. Thank you for making this video. 💜

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - glad it was of interest!

@zheliak6536 Жыл бұрын

It seems so counter intuitive for digital artists and print services to print in RGB, I feel this information should be more widespread among people in the industry, thank you so much for sharing this information I’m gonna keep on printing in RGB from now on.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks - glad it was of help

@uksz666 Күн бұрын

@zheliak6536 I don't think you understand the point, or I don't know exactly what you mean. The author of the video suggests that processing / creating files in CMYK is not always the correct way to go and recommends RGB. He says nothing about printing in RGB. Sending an RGB file to the printer driver does not mean it is printed in RGB - it is printed in CMYK.

@Bossfightmedia Жыл бұрын

Wow, thank you so much! I am a graphic designer, and had a customer ask me to make the image CMYK colour for the Print. I never did convert those before (funny enough), and looked it up and here I am. Will send this to them. Great Video, really good Stuff. Thank you.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Glad it helped!

@jedoka 2 жыл бұрын

Quite agree - I used to work at an offset litho printer. There we would separate out CMYK into different gels and printing plates, but I would never go down that route for digital images created using RGB equipment / software. The specialist print profiles produced for different papers take all the hassle out of trying to get CMYK and the sub-variant inks balanced in modern ink-jet printers.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for noting this. When you need it, you know why you need it. The ease of 'converting to CMYK' in Photoshop has a lot to answer for ;-)

@mrs.quills7061 Жыл бұрын

As a digital artist I was also told you have to convert to CMYK because of ink, but I just tried this on semi gloss paper and it’s exactly how the image looks on the screen! I still get dull and dark results with matte or more regular paper though, but I think it just absorbs the ink too much and makes it have an odd result. Not sure if you have any tips for that! But I think moving forward I will try keep using semi gloss, I was just copying what other artists did or told me and and never worked out! I had to do so much adjusting and never knew that modern printers can adjust everything for you. But thank you, you saved me a headache as I was printing today. I found this when trying to remember settings for my prints I had lost and realize all the effort I made prior was pointless. I was taught it was very bad to use RGB when printing… but the results were often way worse when converted to CMYK. They’re too dark and dull and if I color correct the print colors are way off. Everything was perfect this time around!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Glad it was of help for you - this CMYK stuff seems to be firmly embedded in many places where it's completely wrong! ;-) Consumer and photo inkjet printers don't do well on 'normal' papers - dye or pigment. These papers are made for commercial print - use them with inkjet and bad prints are the usual result. If you want to use a matte/art paper, get one marketed for use with inkjet printers. See the examples in any of my printer reviews.

@mrs.quills7061 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooperso for my art printer I have a canon pixma iX680 and for papers I’ve been using a staples photo matte brand, the semi gloss I have is a canon brand. I also have thicker cardstock papers for cards and bookmark making too. All for inkjet use, but the matte seems to just lose some of the saturation and pop that my digital artwork has, especially if I’m printing super dark darks against vibrant colors. But thank you I will check it out!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Yes - anything simply called 'cardstock' invariably disappoints - see some of my videos about printing cards for example and the importance of the correct media

@kenninast Жыл бұрын

This goes against anything I've learnt from my design course. And I'm so glad that after all CMYK isn't really the best option. ;)

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks - I've been a guest lecturer on several design courses and the normal coverage of colour management has varied between OK and really awful... I come across it with potential clients asking for images in CMYK. I have a few basic questions which will give me an idea as to how much they understand - just asking "which CMYK" or what ink limits they work to tells me enough. In general we only supply images in CMYK if asked in writing, with full specs for the conversion ;-)

@Toetbeornottoetdbe 2 жыл бұрын

This has been very informative again! I learned to convert to CMYK a couple of years ago from a teacher. It makes a lot of sense that the printer / profile actually takes care of this.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - it's surprised me just how often CMYK is used

@WhiteFyre 11 ай бұрын

Good to know! I have just recently ordered a poster print of two of my digital artworks, and it came out quite dull compared to the screen image, because I was using cmyk. Thank you. Cheers from Australia. 🌸

@KeithCooper 11 ай бұрын

Glad to help. There are several extra resources I'd recommend, in the notes to this video

@VictoriaBlayney Жыл бұрын

This video has helped me a great deal. Thank you again Keith, wonderful explanations helping me understand more about printing! 🙂

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@jameswalker7874 2 жыл бұрын

The logic "if you don't know why you would...then don't..." is one I frequently rely on. I find it makes life far simpler! Bit like when I fill in a form with "are you..." - if I don't know what it is then I'm probably needing to answer no!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

I apply it to monitor calibration software as well - If I don't know why I should change a setting, the defaults are probably good to go with.

@Syncrotron9001 2 жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper I learned something, take my thumb.

@adamfaith2321 Жыл бұрын

Thank for this explanation, I accidently got into having to start printing our own works about 3 months ago, I am working on a large project of over 130 high resolution images of sizes between 1.5 - 2 meters in width. I have been getting samples done at commercial printers in Hungary and UK, both asking for CMYK and in Fogra39 in some cases. Colour in some images have been fine/acceptable from RGB to CMYK but about 25% are a complete disaster with no depth of colour. Due to all complications and issues I was having I bought a second hand large format printer (HPZ2500ps 44") using HP Everyday Photo Paper Quick Dry for proofing. Today I had enough of trying to convert the difficult images into CMYK and did a run in RGB and they came out exactly as I expected and match the monitors used. I was trying understand why the commercial printers wanted CMYK, but when I use our own commercial printer the images came out best in RGB via Adobe PhotoShop. I was told the CMYK 16Bit gamut could not do the Gamut of RGB but the printer does. The really vibrant colours I wanted, I get in RGB 16Bit, You could not expect any better results than I got in RGB. I have another project next for a catalogue and that has been asked for in CMYK Fogra39, I will have words with the printers next visit as I am also having issues with it CMYK but no issues in RGB when proof printed.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

What you mention is one of the few times where working in CMYK IS needed at some point. This video is mainly aimed at people using CMYK for printing their own photos, where it is invariably not a good idea. The optimal conversion of RGB to a CMYK space is a skilled task and one I'm very wary to do unless I know exactly what's going on at the press end of the process. As a start get a 2nd hand copy of this book, so you understand _exactly_ what is going on and why some pics work and others don't. "Real World Color Management " Fraser et al ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 0321267222 ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0321267221 Best of luck!

@adamfaith2321 Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thank you for your prompt reply and the info, I have ordered a copy of the book today from the USA for £6 and £10 shipping.

@adrianknagg-baugh4680 10 ай бұрын

Thanks. This was very helpful in informing a design decision for adding color management support to some astrophotography software - I'm just not going to support export to CMYK at all. It sounds like not offering the option will help users avoid a lot of headaches, and those who do know why they need an image converted to CMYK will undoubtedly have access to dedicated software that can do that for them as part of their pre-press workflow.

@KeithCooper 10 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful! Yes, people using CMYK should know enough about it to be just fine with RGB files. Colour space choices can be 'interesting' if you want to show some emission line colours or multi channel composites for example, but once again most people won't be too concerned ;-)

@liliacao7407 2 жыл бұрын

No wonder my Epson-8550 prints RBG better. Thank you very much for explaining this, Keith!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was of help!

@artgamesforfun Жыл бұрын

your information is priceless Keith!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks - this is one of those ones where it's directly inspired by someone asking me why...

@RonK Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for the clarification! Which, of course, leads to the next questions: send images as JPEGs or as TIFFs (when printing standalone, not from Photoshop)? AdobeRGB or sRGB? TIFF in 8 bit or 16 bit? Or does all this simply not matter on printers like P700 or Pro-300 and similars?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Full quality jpegs are no different really to TIFFs 16 bit rarely makes a difference - you have to pick images carefully to make it noticeable A98 covers colour compressed together in sRGB - landscapes/trees can show this BUT Most people couldn't spot the difference if it fell on them Most people are more concerned about what the picture is about One other thing - 16 bit tiffs in A98 are much better to adjust if need be at some later point.

@dazlock4491 3 ай бұрын

Colour Retoucher here: I understand what you're saying, because yes the in-built CMYK conversion will do a decent job on most high-end inkjet printers however you do not get the best control. What you *should* do for best results, is download the ICC profile of your printer. When you're ready to print, convert it using the printer (and paper's) ICC profile. Then as long as your monitor is correctly calibrated your prints will perfectly match.

@KeithCooper 3 ай бұрын

Actually I would never recommend converting files to a normal RGB printer profile unless you specifically need it for some purpose. For people using normal inkjet printers with their drivers, CMYK should never enter the equation. Unless you are using specific rip software, -inkjet printers are characterised and profiled as RGB devices. It can be different for commercial print, obviously, but that is not really the audience for this.

@SDZ420 8 ай бұрын

Thank you Mr Cooper!!

@KeithCooper 8 ай бұрын

Glad to help

@kojokojo7523 Жыл бұрын

When you're print with a home inkjet printer then you can stick to RGB but at the commercial press you need CMYK. When you're printing smaller text for example, you need a 100% CMYK black

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

The video is primarily aimed at users of inkjet printers...

@messylaura 2 жыл бұрын

hi Keith, quick Q, if you set the brightness values for the shadows and highlights in photoshop do you leave them at 0 and 255 or do you have a preferred value to make any highlights or shadows more printable? if using the pro 200 with its nice dark blacks on fine art would it be best to leave the blacks on 0, and have the white around 253 ? still learning, long way to go yet

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the image and the paper, and the quality of the paper icc profile. See the pro-200 B&W printing article for examples www.northlight-images.co.uk/black-and-white-printing-with-the-pro-200/

@segno678 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you sooo much for this information!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@thomaseriksson6256 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for good information.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@orkneyed6528 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative as usual.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@richardvincil6988 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks; very informative. I do have a question for you: Does it make a difference to make a print from a tiff file vs a jpeg file? Is the resolution better? Using DXO into Epson Print Layout, (8550). Many thanks.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

As long as the jpeg is at best quality, there are unlikely to be noticeable differences - maybe a 16 bit tiff might make a small difference with some images and some print setups, but finding images which actually show this up in prints is nowhere near as easy as some might think. Using a good colour profile probably makes a far bigger difference...

@macca63 27 күн бұрын

great info thanks mate!

@KeithCooper 27 күн бұрын

Thanks - glad to help

@ferrymeadowswalks2790 Жыл бұрын

Loads of conflicting information around so many thanks for being so clear. But just one query...can I print photos in RGB on to sublimation paper for mug photos without having to convert to CMYK first?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

If the printer driver is expecting RGB files then there is no need to use CMYK Of course, this depend on printer and driver software - I have zero experience of sublimation printing!

@Rwdphotos Жыл бұрын

Do you have a followup on how you make printer profiles from the test prints?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

No, I've no videos. I've covered it in many colour management articles/reviews over the last 15 years ;-) See here for a different measuring device, but the same software I use www.northlight-images.co.uk/x-rite-i1photo-pro-3-review/ also here, where I use this device for thicker media www.northlight-images.co.uk/x-rite-i1io-review/ It's all quite expensive kit/software - a more economical solution would be using i1Studio [ccStudio] Here I do have a video ;-) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qdh7irGfvtK2lXU.html

@Ethrum 2 жыл бұрын

Can you make a video where you explain when to use CMYK and what types there are etc.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry - no. This is quite advanced stuff better suited to a written article. I do have these two articles from a few years back which are a basic intro www.northlight-images.co.uk/cmyk-use-for-photographers/ www.northlight-images.co.uk/cmyk-beyond-the-inkjet-print/ If I was to expand it, any video would only be an introduction to the written article... My usual suggestion is to get a copy of Real World Color Management [Fraser et al.] and read it well... ;-) It's how I learned a lot about it

@pseudonamed 2 жыл бұрын

I'm so confused now.. in design school they emphasised that anything intended for print should be in CMYK not RGB format. Never said anything about profiles.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

That's because they were probably talking about print on CMYK presses. They were reasonable to mention it in that respect, but plain wrong when printing photos on an inkjet printer Photos are in RGB and inkjet printers work in RGB. Profiles are needed for good quality printing using a CMYK or RGB base. Colour management is very poorly taught in some schools - I've quite often given guest lectures at UK universities and colleges covering this ;-) Also CMYK is not just one thing. A CMYK profile and colour space with 310% ink limits is a very different CMYK to a 220% ink limit. Accurately and predictably working in CMYK is not a trivial matter. It is so easy to mess things up in CMYK, that we will not ever supply images in a CMYK colour space unless the requirements are stated in writing ;-) The absolute best resource on this is the book I mention in the notes to the video.

@crack_squirrels 10 ай бұрын

Hello, handy video and confirming what I suspected was the case. I am having a different issue. Most images print fine, but some the colours look weird, especially lights with neon glows, etc. I "debug" this by converting my images to my printer/paper colour profile within Photoshop and can see a much more accurate representation of what is printed on the paper. This is helpful, but my colours still print shitty. Are there ways to convert the image to the printer's profile that can simulate a greater gamut or at least represent the gamut (especially the relative lightness between subtly different colours) more accurately through trickery or compensation? It seems sometimes the conversion utterly ruins the feel of the image! It seems using Perceptual intent vs Relative Colourmetric is a bit better for this kind of image, though.

@KeithCooper 10 ай бұрын

Handling OOG colours is as much about the quality of the printer profile. It's very much a trial and error approach sometimes, especially if you are not making the profiles. Have you tried the saturation RI? Sometimes it is different, sometimes not - depends on the profiling software. Soft proofing on a good monitor may help, but printing a profiling target and physically looking at the colours on the sheet is often the best way of seeing what a printer/paper/profile can achieve

@boatman222345 2 жыл бұрын

One of the magazines I submit images to requests CMYK. As I don't use Photoshop and as Lightroom does not provide CMYK output I will have to use one of the free online CMYK converters. Any tips as to how to do this would be appreciated.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

I take it this is for photos? If so ask them which CMYK profile they use for printing - if they don't know, then they are a seriously 2nd rate outfit... ;-) Leaving CMYK conversion to contributors is (IMHO) risky at best. - someone should be able to provide you with conversion profile info - whether this is workable with on-line conversion I don't know. This is one of my basic yes/no filtering questions I use to judge the colour management competency of any would be client and whether I need to take special care in dealing with them. If they don't care enough about consistency and quality at this point, it warns you over their whole attitude to quality... BTW Affinity photo has the ability to export images in CMYK

@antjamnow1286 Жыл бұрын

Fresh question: I need advice on matching fluorescent green closely via CMYK ink, which is impossible without a proper spot color ink, but I want your take on the matter. Have you come across this before?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Sorry - not tried it - I'm a photographer, not a commercial printer. Spot colours are the usual (if not the economic) solution It's very tricky in photos getting it right and that's with 'fine art' style printers

@dakemabesemer9481 2 жыл бұрын

I'm trying to print business cards at Staples but the color is just not coming out correctly. Can you give me advice on settings for that?

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Yes - ask them about their colour management settings. They may be able to tell you what profile is required - even whether they accept CMYK. This is a very different situation to what I'm covering in the video which is about photo printing

@dakemabesemer9481 2 жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper yes unfortunately they had no idea what I was talking about 😩 the light cream/yellow color is printing light gray/white and my sage green is printing way darker

@SchoneQ 10 ай бұрын

At work, we need to print 240 booklets, with in each booklet 40 graphs/diagrams which all use the same (simple) colour palette. Do you advice to convert all those graphs into CMYK?

@KeithCooper 10 ай бұрын

That depends entirely on the software, the print process and type of printer. For graphics like that it may not make much difference either way - the advice in the video is mainly aimed at people printing artwork/photos on home or photo printers.

@VivekPatel-ze6jy Жыл бұрын

0:01 it's weird for me as someone living in Leicester to see a nice photo of the place online lol I wasn't expecting it

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

It's my job... I'm an architectural photographer :-)

@oneeyedphotographer Жыл бұрын

When I looked at it years ago, the local paper wanted photos for news articles in sRGB, but CMYK for ads. Made no sense to me, and I had no way of doing the conversion.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

I suspect the paper's requirements were tied to the software they used to process the images and that used by people sourcing them...

@royhobbs785 Жыл бұрын

thank you!!!!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Glad it was of interest

@artbear5653 Жыл бұрын

As said in the video don't convert to CMYK, how ever good thing to note here, is that Pro Printers use more inks then just CMYK, they get Pale Cyan and Grey, that helps the printer push the limits of what can be achieved on Paper, as Paper is not emitting light and will never be as bright as the screen, that emits light there for can show extreme saturation colors, I would still suggest to try to convert the picture to CMYK to see if some areas changed a lot, before wasting paper and ink. As prints will always be duller and darker and les saturated, unless the you have printer with more then 4 cartridges as thuse are designed to print close to RGB, with help of extra inks.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks - I have a recent video looking at why all those extra inks are there and what they do. The basic light colours and grey are far more about smoothness of tone than any marginal extension of gamut. However, unless your work is going to be commercially printed and you have a specific CMYK type [profile] to convert to, there is [IMHO] no benefit whatsoever in going anywhere near CMYK unless you genuinely know why. There are far better ways of soft proofing for example.

@christhorney 7 ай бұрын

been trying to print stickers and sublimation graphics for my brother with green in them and the printed green came out wayyyyy different to what i made on the screen, so i have been battling with this cmyk stuff trying to get it figured out, also the blue comes out very purple and yeah, slowly im getting it figured out, because i was using full saturation rgb colours it couldnt compute it well, cutting saturations in half and pushing the green a little towards yellow helped, but i just figured out how i can do actual cmyk svg's in inkscape so hopefully tomorrow he prints the one i just finished and it works better now

@KeithCooper 7 ай бұрын

The fact you can produce CMYK images has nothing to do with being able to print them on an inkjet printer, unless the printer driver accepts CMYK [most desktop printers don't] For commercial print applications, it depends on the precise setup, and of course using the correct CMYK conversion/profile. See my other video about printing brightly coloured text for a potential work-around for this

@AbdenassarJebari Жыл бұрын

What about print on demand, should i use CMYK or RGB When I designing logo for T-shirt. And thank you 😊.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Ask the print service... This video is about using it for general printing of photos and art on paper/canvas on inkjet printers. Commercial print is an entirely different matter

@AbdenassarJebari Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooperthank you very much.

@fcdsigngaming1421 Жыл бұрын

i try once cmyk to large format printer cmyk, but the color is different from my layout,,,then i try rgb from photoshop to cmyk printer the color is the same to the picture or images in computer..thats why i use always rgb in my layout..

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Yes, RGB is the better option for many

@normski4ash 2 ай бұрын

Question is then, should I ask the lab which CMYK version ? and can they send it to me for proofing ? If I go into PS and hit Edit - convert to profile, there are 24 CMYK profiles, if the lab send me theirs, there will now be 25. View the image to see what to expect from the print, make adjustments as required, then undo the conversion, back to RGB and forward to lab. Is that a worthwhile process ?

@KeithCooper 2 ай бұрын

Absolutely - if they cannot tell you 'which' CMYK, it's a big warning flag for me. As to checking in PS - I'd likely use the soft proofing [not a conversion] to see what it looked like. I don't go near lab either unless I'm following some of Dan Margulis's editing techniques. For most people I still say there should never be any reason to go near CMYK for images, and if there is you need to understand why and what you are doing.

@ptolemaios5364 Жыл бұрын

interesting.. my teacher and everywhere i read that i should design and print my files in cmyk. unfortunately Inkscape doesnt support cmyk color profile. so thats an opportunity to try printing in rgb

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

CMYK has applications in commercial design, and print, but an awful lot of simply wrong advice is out there concerning using CMYK.

@StarChild.no1 Жыл бұрын

From an artist point of view - If you insist on working in the rgb color space (for simply the sake of printer conversion) at least use a cmyk safe color pallet.. Working in an RGB color space, affords you over 16million unique colors to choose from where as the cmyk color space can only produce 16 thousand unique colors.. What could happen is you can create a color pallet when creating your art, based on saturation values from the rgb color space that absolutely doesn’t exist in the cmyk color space. No matter what color space that goes into the printer and get converted, you’re only going to get a result from 16 thousand possible colors. So your entire artwork that you created with your desired color saturation and value pallet will experience color shifts (that means saturation and values because these are the utilities that produce unique colors when added in varying percentages to a hue) because the printer will attempt to reinterpret an rgb color (HSB/HSV) that the CMYK inks, cannot create.. So, yeah, you could just work in the CMYK color space as well for more predictable print results or at least use a CMYK safe color pallet if you really want to work from the RGB color space (Most convenient, when you didn’t create the artwork yourself, and truly appreciate what the colors should look like on output )

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

First up - those numbers don't actually mean anything in this respect. It's about gamut, not how finely divided that gamut is. Working in a specified CMYK space is fine, if you have the confidence that it is going to printed in exactly the same space. However, if such a 'safe' palette is available and relevant to the work it is an option for design. This video is aimed at those who don't understand exactly what CMYK means (in all its varieties) and those who think that because their printers use cmyk inks they should convert or edit photos in CMYK As I clearly mention - IF you know and understand why you are using CMYK, then by all means do it, BUT if you don't know this it's best to leave well alone. Note also the title of the video: 'PHOTO' prints ;-) It just happens to cause problems for many others too... I still say that in general. unless you know otherwise, leave CMYK well alone.

@cwarts5461 Жыл бұрын

I am entering an art competition that is requiring Cmyk. A don't know what profile. Actually the artwork itself. is pencil and paper and I’m trying to figure out how to get it into digital format. It’s too large for any scanners in my area. Photographing it is landing me with horrific parallax. This whole conversion has taken me longer to figure out than the 500 + hours spent drawing the thing!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

That's really bad to hear - the incompetence of the organisers deserves to be pointed out to them... One of the Photoshop 'default' CMYK profiles may be a good bet, but not specifying a profile for the conversion is just plain inept. Have you tried multiple shots and stitching in Photoshop? Whatever happens, hope it goes well

@garavonhoiwkenzoiber 4 ай бұрын

I edit my work in rgb, photoshop set to [photoshop manages colours], then driver set to my custom profiled PermaJet paper, printer's "colour matching" set to [None], relative colorimetric perfect results every time Could there be better settings? Maybe, but this is reliable, repeatable, dependable and my customers are happy

@KeithCooper 4 ай бұрын

Yes that is an rgb workflow - no cmyk anywhere other than internally in the printer driver.

@johntaylor38 4 ай бұрын

What price are they charging and is it compatible with windows 2000 pro, cheers Keith.

@KeithCooper 4 ай бұрын

Charging for what? As to win2000 - I've not used a win pc for 20+ years...

@johntaylor38 4 ай бұрын

The price for the full version.

@KeithCooper 4 ай бұрын

Full version of what? This video is about not using CMYK for prinitng @@johntaylor38

@jbairdexp 2 жыл бұрын

I'd never considered using CMYK, and especially not now. :-)

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

It has it's uses, but if you need it you will usually know why ;-)

@CoutureFantasy 2 жыл бұрын

Your comment that the RGB to CMYK is one way and that loss occurs going back to RGB caught my attention! I frequently color correct in CMYK and concert back to RGB. Mostly because I’m really familiar with how to use the Photoshop curves and levels and it’s really easy - but now I’m wondering if I should train myself to make those same color adjustments in RGB (will take a bit of getting used to). If I’m losing information on the way back to RGB from CMYK - I don’t want to keep doing it - what do you recommend? (So many times in photos I receive for publication (magazines, books, newspapers) there is way too much yellow or an imbalance of CMY. Thank you so much!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Basically - work in RGB as long as you can. A round trip to CMYK and back can really damage photographic images. Of course, you also need to pay attention to your RGB working colour space. The transfer to CMYK also depends on what CMYK colour space you are using. Ideally you need to have an understanding of the relevant ink limits that will apply to the press and how they affect the conversion. Given what you do, I really do recommend getting a copy of Real World Color Management [Fraser et al.] which covers so much of this at a really practical level. Don't bother with YT videos - this book will give you all you need to know about colour management and should add massively to the quality and consistency of your work.

@terryhurt8857 2 жыл бұрын

If you need CMYK for some reason, duplicate the Photoshop RGB file, give the duplicate a new name which includes CMYK then be sure to close the original RGB file to keep it safe. Then convert your duplicate file to CMYK and do whatever you like with it, knowing the original RGB is safe.

@CoutureFantasy 2 жыл бұрын

Grateful for your guidance! Thank you for taking the time to make recommendations and I’ll definitely follow up on them.

@CoutureFantasy 2 жыл бұрын

Ordered Real World Color Management!

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent - my copy is very well thumbed. It cover the whole range of uses.

@pizzablender 2 жыл бұрын

If you use RGB, you use color management. And let the printer driver decide how much black, gray and color to mix for a certain tone. And the colors will come out color managed, which is good. If you use CMYK, you tell the printer: "so much of this ink and so much of that". It could do that, but inkjet is way different than for example offset web printing in the amount of ink and the exact color of that ink. So it wouldn't come out well. Or the printer driver converts CMYK back to RGB, interpreting it as either SWOP or CGATS or whatever, and then to the printer inks. With accuracy loss at best, but worse, it could be the prong profile.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, leaving to the printer driver is far better for most people

@ynyslochtyn 5 ай бұрын

Hmm. Seems like there is a lot BS (and I don't mean black and sepia) talked about CMYK elsewhere.

@KeithCooper 5 ай бұрын

Indeed, I do see quite a lot of stuff that tends to get repeated without question. Hope this has helped a few people clarify things...

@dmystify1381 9 ай бұрын

print in cmyk they said,so i did,ended up with utter cr^p.

@KeithCooper 9 ай бұрын

Yes - 'they' are to blame for a lot of wasted paper and ink...

@YoungNino2017 3 ай бұрын

I dont know what to think about this... it seems like a lot has changed. I just learned that, in 2024, if you convert to CMYK from RGB there is barely any difference... maybe none that you can notice. When I was in college that was FAR from the case... if you had something you designed in RGB that needed to be printed... oooooofaaaa, you were F'd... good luck getting the blacks BLACK, then once you force the black level to actually look black you had to deal with gamma shift and saturation changes and on and on until you settled for something. Now not only does converting to CMYK actually do a faithful conversion, but people are now saying you shouldn't even do a conversion of the file at all... what a time to be alive.

@KeithCooper 3 ай бұрын

Yes, but improved conversions don't change the fact that for most people, they should go nowhere near CMYK, _unless there is a solid reason to do so_ Note too the title emphasis on 'photo prints' - I am countering the widely held, but completely wrong idea that because desktop inkjet printers have CMYK inks in them your print files need to be in CMYK CMYK is obviously an integral part of commercial print, but as I say, if you need it, you should know why...

@YoungNino2017 3 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper What I'm referring to is design stuff. If you made something in Illustrator 20 years ago and it needed to be converted to CMYK you were in trouble; maybe we could have just left it RGB then? I don't remember, but a conversion to CMYK was a disaster. I recently had something printed and converted to CMYK ( I guess I didn't have to, I plan not to in the future) but... this time, in the current year, converting to CMYK made no noticeable difference that I could see. What I conclude is that Adobe has made leaps and bounds to actually convert RBG correctly... which come to think of it, could literally mean they simply DON'T convert it... they could just be telling you it's CMYK given what you say here.

@user-vu8mm7tm6i Жыл бұрын

I really want to see how some big press factory, take a job for your magazine cover with small near white (RGB 253 253 253) typography and lines under 0.2mm with some black barcode RGB 0 0 0) and to explain them that there is no need to be in CMYK at any Fogra standart (this is not type of CMYK), no angle of the raster dot etc is old style over rated technic and to tell them not to worry and to use standart printer driver to convert it perfectly. I really want to see that. Professional photographer, even TIFF has CMYK, JPG also has , and there is not type there is bits and dpi. U use small extremely expensive ink printer with more than 4inks (additional 2 or 4) where can cover difference in gamut between sRgb (your screen) to CMYK standard offset/digital print.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

As the video states clearly... This is about the use of CMYK for photo/art prints on normal desktop printers. Your points would entirely valid if I'd been talking about commercial printing and image preparation for commercial print. However I'm not talking about that, so your points fall into the perfectly valid, but irrelevant to this video category.

@peTeMelster Ай бұрын

Makes no sense. CMYK is duller and thus for print. If you design in RGB and use vibrant colors, what you see on your computer screen will not be what you see in the printed product. The print will use CMYK, which then becomes noticeably duller. That leads to unhappy customers who were expecting the vibrant RGB image they saw on the computer.

@KeithCooper Ай бұрын

I'm minded to say that you miss the point of the video in a multitude of ways I'm afraid... 1 Don't use CMYK for creating images unless you know exactly why - most people don't, they just have some vague notion that if it's print, it must be CMYK 2 Inkjet printers are RGB devices. They are characterised and profiled as RGB devices. The conversion from RGB to the mix of inks takes place in the driver - the sorts of multi-ink printers I'm looking at can often far exceed the basic CMYK gamuts found in commercial print The unhappy customer problem is one of education...

@hueandgray Жыл бұрын

haha! When you don't have a RIP to print with - you praise RGB!!!

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Yes, this is aimed at the 99.9% of people printing photos who don't have access to or the slightest need for a RIP ;-)

@discursion 11 ай бұрын

You're telling people "don't use CMYK unless you know why" without ever mentioning why anyone might want to use CMYK. You're not inviting people to learn more and being critical about what they produce by dictating: "do this, don't do that".

@KeithCooper 11 ай бұрын

Quite deliberately I'm afraid - I merely suggest - you choose to use the word dictate... Did you read the notes that go with this video? My channel is primarily aimed at people printing photography and artwork - they should use RGB unless they genuinely need CMYK, and if they do need it they will know about ink limits, GCR, UCR etc When might you use CMYK? - well, commercial graphic design and commercial print spring to mind. A sound understanding of colour management is required to reliably and meaningfully use CMYK - I'm not producing material to cover this, since it's irrelevant to my main photo/art audience. As a first step I suggest reading Martin Evening's Photoshop chapter on colour management - very well written www.photoshopforphotographers.com/download/PSCS_colmanage.pdf I would regard a basic understanding of what's in this PDF as a pre-requisite of effectively using CMYK Once again, merely a suggestion based on teaching this stuff and years of people using CMYK when it's just causing problems for them

@alex_oiman Жыл бұрын

absolutely annoying when a printing company requires you send them cmyk but do not specify which profile for proof. clear sing they dont know what they're doing.

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Yes - a sure-fire indicator for potential trouble down the line.