Yes. The marketing has almost made a game out of this, getting some bit nature-detached cityfolks trying to minmax the imaginary stats of blades in exchange for their money. Never seen anyone that has even the slightest experience in knife usage turn down simple plastic handle puukko for quick cutting task. People who use knives here in finland sure can cut everything with standard shit-puukko. When it comes to plain function, collecting aside, nothing beats the cheap stainless mora.

Its called capitalism. Its what we do in the USA...just buyer beware and don’t fall for marketing

It's what happens when very few people actually know anything about the tools or anything else they're buying, if you did you would see straight through the marketing bs... Its the nature of the capitalism consumerism beast

I find it amusing all these "outdoors" youtubers who have these huge knives with a 1/4" thick blade, hacking and batoning large chunks of wood. Pointless and useless.

Wisest words I have seen on YT today!!!!

Thanks a lot 👍

totally agree - got that knife for my son, but I liked it so much it found its way into my bag

Thanks a lot for the in-depth comment and glad you like the knives. Many thanks and if you ever want one making let us know. All the best cheers Ben

Hi Mark thanks a lot, sure great idea for the next video. We can certainly show you a few ways of keeping it too too in the field for sure. Thanks for asking. cheers Ben

I completely disagree I've been using a scandi ground knife for more than a decade and have more than adequately peeled potatoes and other veg, sliced and processed game and meat with it including filleting fish, and have put it through abuse while carving, cross grain batoning etc, never had an issue with any tasks, could a full flat have done some of those jobs better? Yes but only slightly, and I've never needed to do more than use my leather belt to strop it back to shaving while out and about. If you genuinely think a 4mm or 3/16 scandi can't perform those tasks at all as you say then the problem is not the knife, it's your technique.

I agree. I generally have no use for a scandi grind that's over 3/32 thick.

@@glbwoodsbum2567 That's the perfect spot for a scandi. Thicker than that, and it can't slice anything, thiner than that and you start to have edge stability issues (edge chips or rolls easily)

I agree

@@BushcraftEurope That means, you use your knives and you know how they work!! Have a nice day!

Thanks a lot much appreciated

Just buy the two.

What do you mean by mil?

​@@joonasrautio9909probably milimeters, whatever those are.

​​​@marcusvirta3695Exactly. Take your preferred angle and stock thickness, then adjust blade- and grind height accordingly and you're golden.. Edit. FWIW..this is coming from people who had mandatory puukko-making in our curriculum in the early 90'..in elementary school 😅 🇫🇮

​@@joonasrautio99093,5 mm is approximately between 1/8-5/32 inch.

They're not better. They're completely different.

Here's a tip: Don't baton with your knife...

@@beetroot7486why not? With the proper grind/technique, it’s the way to go to process smaller pieces of wood. Also way safer than using an axe or hatchet at a fraction of the weight. There’s nothing wrong with batoning pieces wrist size or smaller. No need for an axe. Saw and a fixed blade. I’d never hike with an axe.

Not very good at processing wood, like the Skandi grind, but good for skinnig and gutting game.

@@nacholibre1962 Agree. From other side - convex can perform the basic survival woodwork tasks, if needed. Scandi has big advantage if you need to do a LOT of woodwork.

Thanks a lot , well we can certainly make you one of each if you want. Just let us know many thanks cheers Ben

@@BenOrford Will do cheers matey Hope all is well with you and the family Cheers

@@JohnWic-ld2fd great stuff. All good here thanks hope your well too ? cheers Ben

@@BenOrford All is well here in the states cheers!

i used to use a folder for food prep until i loaned it to a friend and it came back with food in the liner lock. that was a sad day.

Why do you people insist on a full tang knife? Hidden tang knives and swords have been in use for thousands of years. If they are as weak as some of you imply,they wouldnt still be around and used daily in some cultures.Finland comes to mind. Anyone who hammers your most important survival tool through a chunk of wood to split it,is not a "bushcrafter".( I think that is a stupid word! I much prefer to be called a woodsman.)

@@tgray505 fair point, but battoning is a pretty effective way to split wood in the absence of a more robust tool for job. if that's something you want to do more than casually you're going to want something that can take a beating, hence full tang. battoning may not be your method of choice but if it was good enough for Mors Kochanski it's good enough for must of us.

@@teeeff5179 That may be so,but in over 50 yrs roaming the woods hunting,fishing,campin,gold prospecting etc,I have Never found myself in a situation where split wood was needed. I always manage to find all the different sizes of wood needed just on the forest floor. In fact,even though I always carry a small double bit cruiser axe on my trips through the woods, my friends and I seldom waste time cutting firewood to length. Anything we cant break into lengths,we burn it into. My friends and I were taught many skills by a bunch of real old time woodsmen relatives of ours,who grew up woods roaming for survival during the depression. These same men fought WW2,and came home to raise families by hunting and fishing. Again,not for fun,but to keep food on the table. In my family,some of them were Creek native americans. The things they taught me have saved my ass several times. I have visited all of them who are still alive in recent years,( most are in their 80s or 90s now),and I showed them videos of so called " bushcrafters",using a knife to baton wood. From every one there was outrage to absolute laughter at the stupidity of using an important tool such as a knife as an axe!. Personally,I witnessed a man using a very expensive name brand knife,to baton some wood. He got it stuck in a knot,and then broke the blade!

@@tgray505 i respect your experience and the wisdom you and your friends have gathered over the years. that said if you've never found the need to split wood to make a fire you've been a lucky man. i grew up in the Pacific Northwest (often helping my father on prospecting trips as it happens) and if you happened to be out in the rainy season (4-6 months of the year) you either brought dry wood -- almost never -- or split something to get to the dry stuff. to be fair back then we always had an axe to hand. i'm now in my 60s, spending time in the woods again and doing so mostly solo. the weight of an axe is a luxury i always think twice before adding to my pack. i'll certainly take it if i think i'll need it but i also know i can often do without. if someone trashes a knife while battoning then they weren't using the right tool for the job, IMHO. with a stout blade (full tang, 3.5mm stock or thicker) i don't hesitate to batton if the need presents itself. and no, i've never damaged a blade doing so. at the end of the day though you should do things your way and i'll do mine my way. i have no disparaging thoughts about yours. i respectfully suggest you might try a similar approach when you consider the methods of others. they're not all fools and you might even learn a thing or two. 👍✌🖖

Well if that’s the case I would check the heat treat as they shouldn’t chip with normally cutting tasks. What makes are chipping?

@@BenOrford Very normal bushcraft tasks. Even my Mora Robust has chips. I don't even baton with them. They do cut into wood really well, but I don't trust the strength of the edge.

@@bibigreen6533 well I think you might have to try one of ours. They don’t chip with normal use and stay super sharp. 👍

@@BenOrford I gotta say they're beautiful knives!

The title says bushcraft.

Many people don't put that on a scandi ground knife so the blade can be sharpened all the way to the handle scales.

i think that they are saying that the scandi grind gets blunt faster. they’re not saying your scandi is going to chip or anything, but it will become blunt with use. when batoning through a piece of wood to make kindling choose the scandi grind, and then be prepared to sharpen it again. so scandi for wood, and flat grind for meat.

@@JinKee Thank you, Jin, for your reply 🤗💚

No problem just let me know what version your after and we can make one for you. There should be a link to our website in the description but if you have trouble let me know. cheers Ben

Sure I have done a few nomads with flat grinds. Makes a great all round slicy pocket knife 👍

Or even better, convex.

@@loveall3890 naa, convex is a bastard to sharpen correctly when in the field.

Different tool for different job..

@@randymctavish3728 scandi for carving. But in a survival situation you’re not going to be sat in the middle of the woods while daylight is burning carving little shapes and patterns on a piece of wood. This is my own personal argument for when people say scandi, it is not directed to your reply.

@@matthewbishop9342 I have found the convex to be very easy to sharpen in the field. Everyone's different though.

Sure Sabre grinds are a good half way between the two. We have some sabre ground blades ready for handles at the moment 👍

Exactly!!!

Sure we are in the united kingdom We can certainly have knives and use them. But we can’t have these on our person in a public. We can carry a 3” non locking folder if you have a legitimate reason. Hope that helps

We have done a few sabre grinds and often do what the customer prefers on their custom builds. I have some sabre ground blades ready for handles so if you want one let us know 👍

Hi, I just stumbled across this vid while looking for info on flat vs scandi grind regarding sharpening ease in the field without sharpeners. I don't know if Ben is reading this, but here's my attempt to explain this. To answer your 1st question, Think of the scandi grind, not as a beefy blade to push into the wood, but as a chisel (essentially it the same profile as a chisel, just positioned differently). The blade sides taper down to the apex, without having secondary bevel. A flat grind might have a secondary bevel with a wider angle (40°) than your typical scandi grind (25-30° for the "true", zero grind scandi), On a flat grind, the secondary bevel is pretty high. This makes little "shoulders" that prevent the blade from forming good shavings as you push the blade into the wood. It works ok for really thin shavings (thinner than the secondary bevel height) but has less "bite" than scandi for bigger cuts. The secondary bevel makes the apex more resistant, but those little "shoulders" that are "in she way" when you cut the wood piece, create more localized constraint, hence more friction and resistance than a flat surface (of a scandi grind). At small scale, that requires more deformation to remove the same the material , hence require more force. The shape of edge also makes it difficult to keep a consistent shave thickness, making it not ideal for woodworking. In fact, most Scandi knives come out of the manufacturer with a microbevel (smaller than the secondary bevel of a flat grind), increasing the total angle at the apex to 40°. This makes it tougher and easier to resharpen (since you only have the microbevel to touch up, not the whole thickness of the blade). But the smaller the microbevel you have (or the closer to a zero scandi you are) the better it will be for woodworking. It's a balance between efficiency and maintainability/edge retention. I think Ben says Scandi are easy to maintain because you don't have to think about the sharpening angle, it's built-in. But I get your confusion, I wouldn't choose to bring a Scandi blade if I didn't have a sharpening kit with a small diamond stone with me, something a buschrafter would probably carry with him anyway because being lightweight is not his main concert. On the contrary, for casual use in the woods or even survival, I feel more comfortable having a flat grind blade in my kit, that I can sharpen with a lansky blademedic, a small rod, or even an improvised tool in worst case scenario,(rock I found, pottery,...) way more versatile for me. IMO, it's a question of whether you want to have woodworking and are willing to carry a sharpening kit or not. Think of touring vs alpine skis. Touring are really worth it if you can carry the sealkin and use it when possible to climb. Otherwise, when going down, they roughly do the same job as usual skis. PS: I have an analogy to the inserts for CNC or turning machines in mind. Although metal is a very different material, there is a reason why inserts have a single bevel profile and are shaped like a small chisel/spoon. You want the cutting edge to be the thinnest (even if the inclusive angle is not very acute), and no "shoulder" rubbing against the piece you're cutting. The profile is shaped like a chisel and ends up as a scoop to orient the removed material in the good direction & produce a good shaving. This way, the cutting movement makes a continuous curly shaving, it requires less force, and leaves a smoother surface (and generate less heat in the process). Regards,

Well it’s a very personal thing for sure. I like the red as a real homage to Bob Loveless but we can make them without liners but lots of people like to make them a little more personal adding colours that have a significant meaning or connection. But if you want a knife with no liners we can do that for you no problem Many thanks cheers Ben

That's a great question which most people don't think about. Actually, I'm not sure that you are even allowed to ask it. But since you have watch out, I'm definitely wearing my cynical hat in this response! I think that the reason is more fashion and marketing than anything else. Marketing costs can exceed manufacturing costs of a product. Most people equate weight with quality subconsciously. Think of how much outdoorsmen spend to buy lighter products, yet they justify a heavier knife because it won't break and ensure their survival ("survival" - really?). As the total cost of the steel is is a low percentage of the overall cost then expensively priced knives use thick blades, whereas a higher cost is incurred by using a steel which can be thinner, to offer equivalent durability. More thought must also be given to designing a thinner blade. I suspect that knife designs of a hundred years ago probably had superior performance due to the limitations and cost of the steel, but also didn't last as long. Similarly knife manufacturers must love those who rave about carbon steel blades. Carbon steel is cheaper to buy and process. If a stainless steel blade corrodes then the knife is perceived as low quality despite the conditions, whereas this is perversely seen as a sign of quality of a high carbon steel knife! "But a carbon steel blade holds an edge better", bleets the consumer. "Of course it does", confirms the seller. If it doesn't then it's implied that the fault lies with the sharpener, whereupon the buyer shuts up rather than being viewed as an amateur at sharpening. This is an extremely clever marketing psychology. Of course consumers will argue that I am wrong rather than admit that they have been manipulated and manufacturers will declare that they don't do any marketing as they have an "honest" product which "sells itself". I'm obviously a fool. Sigh. So, a thick blade can cost less to make, probably have fewer returns due to fragility and the manufacturer can charge more because of the premium feel. It's always about the money! Alternatively: the knife is thick to make it more able to survive as your life may depend on it. Being able to cut well is of secondary importance. All the best Tom.

The flat spine is used to shave tinders and strike a ferocerium rod.

@@glbwoodsbum2567 fat not flat lol I know what a ninety degree ground sound is for

@@Tom_Bee_ Man I gotta work on my reading comprehension. Lol But, what is this "ninety degree ground sound" you speak of?

Well I am not sure I actually agree with that. As the scandi has a a whole lot more steel behind the edge. Granted if you Nick the edge you do have more steel to remove but would say the flat grind is a thinner and more delicate edge than the scandi. But it’s all personal preference and for what task at the end of the day. Thanks for the comment cheers Ben

@@BenOrford a scandi knife might be stronger but the scandi edge is weaker. A better edge is convex or what a lot of woodworkers do scandivex.

lol

This video was a product over view and picking the right grind on your knife. It wasn’t a product testing or cutting video. We may do that at a later date. Thanks