No Spark Diagnostics "Control Testing" Part 2 [a ScannerDanner Premium video]

Рет қаралды 27,794

5 жыл бұрын

This is a ScannerDanner Premium classroom lecture and is part of my Chapter 22 "No Start, No Spark Problems" playlist. www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc...
(click the link above to join my premium channel, there is a 14 day free trial)
I chose to upload this here as a follow up to a few other case study videos where I am using a test light to troubleshoot no spark problems.
In this part 2 video I will be covering the lab scope portion and discussing the variables of using the test light and where it can get you in trouble.
Here is the link to part 1 • No Spark Diagnostics "...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

Пікірлер: 84

@nserekotonny6957 5 жыл бұрын

sincerely l love your lectures, they open up my mind more in automotive .

@joneskey3950 5 жыл бұрын

The Godfather of diagnostics. Merry Christmas!

@Pablo_Automotive 5 жыл бұрын

Paul thank you for sharing this great video This class demonstrates how important an oscilloscope is in the workshop, it is one of the things I insist on the most when I try to teach my co-workers.. I hope you have a great Christmas with all your family you are a great person and excellent teacher, a big hug from Spain.

@blockbertus 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the premium christmas gifts. :) I wish you and your wonderful family a merry christmas and happy new year, Paul!

@johnturner8829 5 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas Paul, to you and the family, and best wishes for the new year. Thank you for all the great videos.

@billyyoder8171 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you Paul. Good job. I appreciate your videos. Merry Christmas to you and your family. Have a blessed New Year.

@mikechiodetti6737 5 жыл бұрын

Technical and greatly detailed. It's better knowing this than using the parts cannon! I hope they got it. Really Good Video!

@wallyhasan1566 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you Mr. Danner for your great videos I learned a lot from them. Merry Christmas to you and your family

@Leekautorepair 5 жыл бұрын

Good vid to start my day! Thanks!

@alexsafri2285 5 жыл бұрын

Hi ScannerDanner. I'd lke to wish You and your Family a very Merry Christmas, health, wealth, and happiness for the new year! We are thankful for your videos!

@medch4193 5 жыл бұрын

i really appreciate your efforts you're the best diagnoseman

@AutomotiveServiceExcellence 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much! Happy New Year to you and your family 🍾👍

@sevdigirolamo5467 5 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas from my family to yours, keep up the awesome videos.

@Joeelectronicschematicsforauto 4 жыл бұрын

Admire your electronics knowledge we need more people like you in the field

@mostlymoparih5682 5 жыл бұрын

Another great lesson Professor. So good in fact I gotta go back to part 1 cause I missed it, sorry got a new grandson so we've been busy lately Happy Motoring oh and Happy Christmas and Merry New Year Danner Family.

@johnmckamy6398 5 жыл бұрын

thanks for the video Mr. Danner Have a Merry Christmas.

@andrewk778 5 жыл бұрын

I have your book. You are the best. Thank you for sharing. Happy holidays to you and your family.

@user-io3hw7hx7q 5 жыл бұрын

Outstanding job

@arbez.nation 5 жыл бұрын

2 Early for me. Haven't even started the coffee yet. I will watch it later when i am awake.

@rusty6666 5 жыл бұрын

Happy New Year scanner danner your videos r great thanks

@georgebonney90 5 жыл бұрын

thx mr danner,merry christmas buddy

@rudysison9010 3 жыл бұрын

Nice lecture dude!

@IsmailKhan-kx8up 5 жыл бұрын

Hey Sanner Danner.🎅 Happy Christmas In advance

@hardeepcheema6054 5 жыл бұрын

merry Christmas and happy new year to u and u r family sir

@sushilvarma4886 5 жыл бұрын

Happy New year sir

@hamdimoez2381 5 жыл бұрын

THANKS FOR HELP

@Thunderroad8517 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks again Paul. This is much needed material for the field. I do have one question about hard to find intermittent misfires. Will it show on the scope and is it possible for the limiting current to stress the coil less so the misfire starts firing? I know it sounds crazy but I got an Hyundai Elantra 4 cyl that the misfire comes and goes but even check spark at coil with test light is more red than blue. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from Kanata Ontario now. Peace and blessings to you and your family.

@MrSamadolfo 5 жыл бұрын

🙂 yay Premium 🙂

@theadventuresofjavier8698 5 жыл бұрын

Wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New year

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas Javier!

@SS-U23 5 жыл бұрын

Again, this video, which is part two, is more than being great. If we disconnect the shorted coil, whose control wire(-) was not pulsing and connect a test light to the control wire(-), will the transistor begin to pulse the ground so that the test light is gonna flicker? I will definitely need the book, but again, I am concerned about the new notes that you are adding to the textbook. Will there be a revised edition that includes all the notes that you have added to the textbook? Thank you and have a wonderful Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

@aboudehsayed2087 5 жыл бұрын

I have a problem with a customer Dodge Grand Caravan 2004 I have a problem in the Coil Driver #2 inside the PCM, if i want to swap the PCM should the new PCM Have the same Number as the older one ?

@jb6574 5 жыл бұрын

Will this work on a two wire coil on plug system?

@GraditelMacedonia 3 жыл бұрын

My opinion... In the beginning of video maybe you have to connect that test light direct to positive terminal and other end to the signal negative wire to see does flickering... Im a right?

@kiddbrother3 5 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas! & Happy New Year! to all KZfaq fans!!

@robertoswald2321 5 жыл бұрын

What product do you suggest for a scope I as a tech really appreciate all your advise I understand it all but I feel like I need a quick easy set up to be productive and efficient I just need to do it more often but what tool should I start with ? I bought a pocket scope from ase wave might have been a mistake

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

the uScope is not a mistake at all! Save for a Picoscope when you can. Also look into the Snap-on Vantage (even if it is a used one)

@glowsite2088 5 жыл бұрын

So how do u correct a misfire indicated issue like this from using multimeter and or OBD II scanner is indicating this via live data ?

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

You don't, that was the whole point of the lecture. Sometimes you need a scope

@manuel7958 3 жыл бұрын

Swapping the coil and checked the bad coil at the new location

@nserekotonny6957 5 жыл бұрын

Please how can I get your book & wiring diagrams, lam in Uganda.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

My book is available through my website www.scannerdanner.com As for wiring diagram help. We've created a thread on my forum with many links to different sites. Some free, some paid. www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here/16-need-service-info-check-here.html?start=17#24676

@1970chevy07 5 жыл бұрын

Great video little difficult to get all of it need live footage 😂

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Spend some time in my chapter 22 playlist right here on KZfaq. Then come check out my Premium channel. Use the 14 day free trial. You will not be disappointed.

@hpelisr 5 жыл бұрын

How do we know where the driver is? what kind of scope and amp probe? so a shorted coil can cook a computer.

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

For C.O.P systems: 2 wire coil = driver is external (part of the engine computer) 3 and 4 wire coil = driver is in the coil itself. Waste spark and distributor ignition systems have many different designs What kind of scope to buy your asking? Or what was I using? These images where from a Picoscope

@victorlewis8970 5 жыл бұрын

☆☆☆☆☆ 5s thanks for this video.

@brandonslater2987 8 ай бұрын

Are you able to check wave forms by just cranking? If the car has no spark?

@ScannerDanner 8 ай бұрын

100%!

@codywichman213 5 жыл бұрын

Paul, quick question. You showed the capture with the bad ignitor..and how it couldn't fully ground the coil. This would be a two tire coil.??

@codywichman213 5 жыл бұрын

And unfortunately we can't seen this coil neg as its inside the cop assembly. This wouldnt likely happen on the coil trigger wire ?

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

yes, it was on a Honda with the coil inside of the distributor

@roadkill5333 5 жыл бұрын

This is a beautiful example of how and why and when!! You do an excellent job. To comment on one little tiny part though, I would like to say something. Backfires! The single cylinder miss. And intentionally crossing the firing sequence. I recently had GM 3800 series II, that inexplicably burned. Actually exploded, but... It was running fine, no issues. On the next cold start, without turning to start, just turning the key to on, a small explosion occurred, and the engine compartment burned up, so fast I could prevent or save it. It doesn't look burned, until you open the hood. Anything, and everything of importance, under the hood, was destroyed! I still can't explain it, what or how it happened. The intake was a plastic design, and was forcefully broken into several pieces. The only thing that could cause that was the initial explosion. And the only thing available to explode inside the intake would be fuel, and spark. A spark ignited the fuel, at an incredibly bad moment!! A couple of weeks later, I had a similar experience. It was a 97 GM 5.7, with the bad spider injector unit. A recent purchase for the owner. I knew that it had a bad FPR. The oil wreaked of gas fumes. This model also had a strange dist cap design, that was horribly made, when in the after market production. It had multiple issues, and the MIL kept coming on, with every new repair. (I know you regularly warn of this, and I also warned the owner, and it was more true than you know) I had fixed a HO2S wiring issue, and I did an oil change, and he was making a test drive. The vehicle ran well, and the MIL wasn't coming on, and he called to say that it was running better. (Hadn't done the inj unit yet!) A few minutes later, he called back to inform me that it had a miss! As we were standing there, listening, guessing, brain storming, he blipped the throttle, and a very large back fire happened!! Followed by a large puff of smoke from the filter housing, followed by very rough idle, then a complete stall. I immediately recognized the symptoms!! We scrambled for fire extinguishers, and of four, none worked! (by some miracle they weren't needed) The engine would restart, but sounded like it was only running on a couple cylinders!! We decided that no matter what, the first step is to repair the injector unit! It was a single cylinder miss, but until the new problem was fixed, we couldn't go any further! And a new unit inj was needed!! It was needed anyway, but a good place to start! As I removed the intake, I could immediately see the carnage! And what I felt could have happened, DID HAPPEN!! The back fire caused the excessive fuel in the intake manifold, from the leaking FPR, to catch fire, and actually burned a couple of injector lines through. The lack of oxygen saved it! Sort of a good thing we didn't have working fire extinguishers. Had we removed the intake housing, we would have introduced more air, to feed the fire. Where the intake on the 3800 ruptured, it allowed air to feed the fire. The plastic intake on the 5.7 didn't, and kept oxygen away!! Had the fire continued just a tiny bit more, it would have burned the vehicle, the shop, a couple of other vehicles, and even more! The cause??? The bad Dist cap, jumped spark within the cap between 5 and 7. I wasn't able to find that miss!! We found it, because he had a friend use his AUTEL SCOPE!! After all the work, I couldn't see the bad cap, without the scope!! I could have replaced things, until the miss went away. Although, I would never know what, how, and why!! We could see this misfire, on the scope! A back fire (misfire) is a MONSTER! They are not to be played with!! Please let your students know of the dangers of the back fires, and no fires, and how a build up of unburned gasoline, and rogue sparks, can be a disaster, very quickly!! In the intake system, in the exhaust system, anywhere!! In just a couple weeks time, I lost my own vehicle, and nearly another's vehicle, garage, another vehicle, and so much more, to back fire!!

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Good warning to others. In both cases it was a fuel issue first, I'm sure of it. Even on the 3800. Probably a leaking regular as you even stated (I think) Mine was an ignition issue, it's a little different but the warning is still a good one. We just need to think about what we're doing.

@roadkill5333 5 жыл бұрын

ScannerDanner the FPR on the 3800 wasn't leaking. I had just recently replaced a MAF, but can only speculate what, how, and why. On this engine, the MAF is located just in front of the throttle plate, and was mounted to the throttle body, proper. So, just outside the intake area. Between the plate and the snorkel. I can only guess, remember. But, it was a cheap MAF! I feel like the initial key on provided the CHEAP PART with enough voltage to produce a spark, and that ignited residual fuel vapors inside the intake. The new MAF was only a couple weeks old, at most! I had 206k on the 99 model, and two weeks after a cheap part was put on, and unexplained explosion in the intake?? It wasn't a blow the hood off, explosion. But, it was definitely heard inside the house, with thoughts of a gun shot or something. I even looked around for the shooter, and checked for blood. I didn't notice the smoke, right away! I have heard an intake backfire, many times before!! I even almost lost an old Cutlass, due to backfire in the carb, that ended up catching fire. A quick gallon of water doused it. The engine didn't even notice all of the water that I poured into it. At least a quart or more. I've heard explosions from the exhaust system, that rivaled this, but nothing this big in the intake. And never even got to the cranking part. Key on blew it up! By the way. As a training aid, and a training school addition, would you like a slightly burned up Buick, to help instruct your students?? I know where you can find one, CHEAP!! Clean title, decent paint, very little scorch marks. A pine tree car freshener will knock out that BURNED CAR SMELL in no time!! A little old lady only drove it to church on Sunday's, and to Branson, MO. on Saturday nights!! Never used as a get away vehicle!! Even though it was the perfect CAMOUFLAGE ever. Cops just ignore you, when you drove a retirement carriage!! I could speed thru a school zone, with kidnapped children strapped to the hood, waving Walmart bags of illegal drugs, shooting a gun, and drinking whiskey straight out of the bottle, the cops ignored me!! I once drove thru a speed trap, at almost twice the speed limit. When the cop walked up, he asked if I knew why he pulled me over. I said "do you need help identifying a robbery suspect, sonny". He laughed and said no, they have that covered. He asked if need an ambulance. He asked if I knew how fast I was going. I said not a MPH over the posted 55. He said it read 35! I said, "35? What a great year. It was the year I was born"! And then asked if he had a birthday present for me, or something!! He said, "HAVE A NICE DAY, SIR"! Ahhh, the advantages of getting old!! JUST PLAY STUPID!! It works for teenagers and old folks!! No one even questions it! Oh, now I'm rambling. But, it's ok. Im old. You are required to let me off with a warning!! Lol

@glowsite2088 5 жыл бұрын

I recently had engine put in my 2006 BMW X5 3.0i E53 M54B30 type motor vehicle. Then as i began driving it to get monitirs ready for it to be inspected...i kept getting code misfire detected in cylinder #4 initially..then it spread to cylinder's #1 #3 #5 & #6. I have 63k mile engine brand new coil packs.. I pulled cylinder 4 plug out replace it with new one it came again then went away...so your saying i need new DME MS43 is what my X5 uses.. An you say i need new coils when all 6 coil packs are brand new...

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Misfires can be caused by more than just the coil and plug. You are aware of this right? Injector, compression, intake runner vacuum leak etc

@glowsite2088 5 жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner injectors were checked an are in spec compression as well which was initial thing done way b4 engine was put in my X5. Im not sure i grasp completely what you mean regarding the intake part of what you indicated here. Im learning & figuring things out lol i watch this site for most everything if it can be found to be here from guys like you who post videos of car issues etc here. If you do not mind would you elaborate upon the intake aspect to which you state could potentially be reason as to my misfire detection issue as i previously said..

@stoverloren 3 жыл бұрын

what if all coils are not sparking but are known to be good and remind you they are 2 wire c.o.p.and no pulse in any of the control wires going to pcm.

@ScannerDanner 3 жыл бұрын

Your focus then shifts towards inputs (cam and crank) and also the ECM powers and grounds and 5v ref circuit. Checking for injector pulse can help with direction as well

@SimplyDiagnostics 5 жыл бұрын

Must watch fundamentals 👍

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you Steve!

@Viper81766 5 жыл бұрын

Merry Christmas my brother in Christ :-)

@jimflynn1422 4 жыл бұрын

what about a load pro or power probe?

@ScannerDanner 4 жыл бұрын

load pro 👎 powerprobe 👍

@turningwrenchesautorepairm5017 5 жыл бұрын

" you probably dont know what to ask me".... LoL !!!!

@jonahharris4051 Жыл бұрын

I have a 96 Chrysler 3.3L with weak spark. New coil, test light dims and stays constant. Any tips?

@ScannerDanner Жыл бұрын

Weak spark on all coils? What is coil positive voltage?

@jonahharris4051 Жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner yes weak spark on all coils. How do I determine coil positive? Your book says using a test light, there should be a distinct difference. KOEC my light stays constant and dims after a few cranks on all coils.

@ScannerDanner Жыл бұрын

@@jonahharris4051 how are you testing for spark? How do you know it's weak? Do you have injector pulse and fuel pressure?

@jonahharris4051 Жыл бұрын

@@ScannerDanner grounding the spark plugs and using a test light at the coil, there's barely a spark. There is fuel pressure, I haven't checked injector pulse yet.

@ScannerDanner Жыл бұрын

@@jonahharris4051 okay cool, and this is a coil pack assembly with 4 primary wires right? One shared power feed (coil +) and 3 control wires (coil -) Weak spark possibilities: 1. Low voltage on coil + (I'm going to want voltage readings, not test light brightness or dimness unless you compare what you see on coil + to direct battery positive during cranking. (They should be the same brightness) 2. Poor computer grounds (the ECM controls spark directly on your system) 3. Faulty computer 4. Faulty coil but it is very unlikely that all coils would fail and have weak spark. One of them, for sure! But all 3? Doubt it. You tested them all right? What is the history with this condition Can't say I've ever seen weak spark like you're describing on all coils on this system

@glowsite2088 5 жыл бұрын

Wow great info that gets the brain turning an is good to know if planning to open a shop or be a mobile mechanic if thats person preference. I am a novice myself learning. I use this very resource YOU TUBE for information and this is how i learned what now know. As i own a Zen X 7r bike too i work on too. For things i can't its taken to reputable shop. Bcuz ppl these days like to excuse my language here ok, ppl like to finger fuck your shit and want to get paid top fucking dollar for a shit job they actually done by chopping your motorcycle or vehicle up...creating and causing other problems & issues that were not there when you took it to them at their auto repair shop...thats why i had to replace my engine in X5. I personally experience this and i wanted to hurt him really bad behind messing up my vehicle. So im leary of who i allow to touch any of my shit..if im unable to fix it.

@nserekotonny6957 5 жыл бұрын

Know that u have atrainee in uganda thanks & m- mas

@mostlymoparih5682 5 жыл бұрын

Can I bale out my friend in his driveway and all I have is a Tesla? Heck if I can afford a Tesla then yeah I can bale him out.

@easyg7115 5 жыл бұрын

With all do respect Paul I'm a premium member of yours . But why do you keep posting free premium content on your KZfaq. . I feel if you keep doing this I will no longer need your premium membership.. your one hell of teacher ... I feel you should keep great content like this for the ones who are willing to pay for it.. love your KZfaq and your website. That's just the way I feel honestly

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

This was a 2014 video, that I split in half and made two parts from it to use here for marketing. There are still almost 400 other videos with frequent new uploads that are exclusive to Premium members. Then I produce videos here for free as well. Sorry you feel slighted. I just feel like I could be charging way more than what I do for what I'm offering.

@bertinijba912 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Mr Danner I thank you for your great work in the mechanic field .I love mechanic a lot.I would like to subscribe in your premium channel .I am in Haiti .You have subscription for Haiti?Haiti don't have PayPal

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately PayPal is the only way to subscribe. I wish there was another way, but PayPal handles the subscription process and cancellations for me.

@bertinijba912 5 жыл бұрын

Ok I try to find another to subscribe since you have subscription for Haiti

@ScannerDanner 5 жыл бұрын

@@bertinijba912 I will look for you on the Premium channel. I hope you can make this work for you. Thank you so much!