Scanning a Predynastic Granite Vase to 1000th of an Inch - Changing the Game for Ancient Precision!

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The debate around whether or not ancient technology existed and was responsible for creating the obvious precision found on many ancient artifacts has taken a strong step forward! Concrete, undeniable evidence for utterly astounding geometric precision has been discovered by professional metrologists Alex Dunn and Nick Sierra, based on the structured-light scan results from a predynastic rose-granite vase, an artifact from Ancient Egypt that is at least 5,000 years old. The implications from this evidence on the story of our own history of civilization are profound.
This is exactly the type of work I’ve been calling for, for years now - the application of our own advanced levels of science and technology to the open-minded investigation of our past. Join me as we explore this remarkable new work, and what it might mean. Many thanks to Alex, Nick and Adam for their time and efforts in getting this work done, and I will be releasing my full discussion with them as a video on this channel.
The vase scan reports (in metric and imperial) are available on my website unchartedx.com , in the post about this video.
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DISCLAIMER: working with primitive or powered tools on stone or any other material is an inherently dangerous activity. If you are going to attempt a recreation of artifacts like this vase, please be careful, and understand that any such activity is done entirely at your own risk, and the choice to do so has nothing to do with the creators or speakers featured in this video.
0:00 Introduction
2:15 Cosmic Summit and Tours
3:48 Introduction to Guests
11:47 Vase Background
14:39 Vase Context Speed-run
16:48 Vase Scan Details
53:23 Conclusions and Thanks

Пікірлер: 4 700

@mikelee9886 Жыл бұрын

I work in machining and engineering high-precision metal objects like many on here, and I think it absolutely takes a person who has experience in building things at high levels of precision to truly understand what the hell we're seeing. What the average person and probably every archeologist hears when we talk about high precision, is "they had to work on it really hard, and for a long time". They don't get that we're not talking about how FAST it was done or how DIFFICULT it would be, as in needing amazing mastery.... we're saying IT'S NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT A MACHINE. Humans hands aren't guided by highly rigid steel guide rails with sealed roller bearings, we can't form perfect shapes by hand, and even where we can get get close, its only in material that is very easy to work with, not material that is so hard that you need diamonds to cut it, and done to such a level of perfection that they achieve a highly reflective surface WITHOUT POLISHING, meaning the cutting tools are cutting so perfect, that a polished surface is left behind.

@Rock_Wilson Жыл бұрын

I have a background degree in game design and 3d modeling so I can understand the steps of processes to make this vase in its shape, but to the degree of accuracy would not only require machines, but also the assistance of computers that we have only developed in recent times ourselves. To be able to even create this you'd have to be technologically advanced to some extent.

@jabonny Жыл бұрын

We use our current high precision machines to make equipment with such precision for high stress rotating components and what not and these people used such precision to make their cereal boxes, I wonder what other precision items were lost to history.

@joewalsh886 Жыл бұрын

Well said

@Unkl_Bob Жыл бұрын

Well stated . Thnx.

@Brzypoint Жыл бұрын

Nailed it! I'm saving this for my archive.

@zienonb3861 Жыл бұрын

There is another excellent metrology company in Connecticut where I worked for over thirty years as an optical engineer. The company name is Zygo Corporation. Besides having on hand numerous state of the art CMM's to determine mechanical surface precision, they develop and manufacture interference microscopes which are capable of non-contact surface measurement with lateral sub-micrometer and nanometer vertical resolutions. The interference microscope can profile surface finish, roughness and form over micrometer to millimeter areas to gain insights into the polishing methods used to shape these ancient vases. I am retired, but I may be able to contact someone who might be interested in advancing the effort to further analyze these incredible vases.

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

Do it!

@FlamingManofIron Жыл бұрын

Do it!

@BlueEyedMomof378 Жыл бұрын

It's strange. Before my comment, the reply count said 2. I can't see any though. They must be talking about something the censors don't like.

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

@@BlueEyedMomof378 all we said was "do it!", literally

@zienonb3861 Жыл бұрын

@@BlueEyedMomof378 The two posts not showing were spam. I'm still waiting for UnchartedX to respond to my offer. An analysis of the surface data taken with an interference microscope will reveal among other detail whether the polishing was random or directional, i.e. hand polishing or polishing during mechanical rotation.

@jhnmckinley123 Жыл бұрын

As a master fabricator at BROTHERS STONE LLc. For 9 years my work shown in better homes and gardens notable works the Oklahoma history museum CEO of Pfizer home. In just referring to the exterior of the vase being off 17 thousands of an inch from center. So after cutting and edge of a granite counter top then running a router with 2 bits up to 120 grit. Diamond embedded tools. Then by hand polishing the edge after that. Due to the difference in granite matrix from feldspar to quartz xln just the hand polishing of a bullnose edge after the perfect edging done with the router the polishing pads alone cannot get you into that type of tolerance I know because you can look down and see how it's not in fact perfect after the hand polishing. You may get close to four or five sheets of paper but not under that. This is ridiculous I don't know if an Italian cnc machine can actually get there because the finish couple grits are done by hand so I don't know if you can possibly get that close with our machines because they get it to a point and a final shine gets human hands on it. It will look perfect because it's shiny and close. This is totally out of this world. First and foremost they are not doing this without having the ability to embed diamonds into metal and or some composite material. If you want those diamond to last more than one vessel it has to be embedded into a metal of some kind on the lower grit it's also only going to be that accurate if they are embedded in metal. Here is the trick diamonds burn unless they were embedded into the metal of the tool on another planet or in an anaerobic atmosphere there cannot be any oxygen in that environment that those diamonds are getting melted into that metal. They could not have had that ability to do that. Unless they had ovens that were perfectly sealed and could pump in an inert gas and push out every oxygen molecule. It's not the easiest thing for us to do that why those tools are very expensive. Carbide stones wear out so fast there is no way it's anything like that. They would have to find a diamond embedded meteorite and make that into a tool but I don't think anyone has ever found a diamond embedded iron nickel meteor. They needed technology computational machines to do it period. Blown away.

@xndr_mrw Жыл бұрын

Search for a channel called 'Infrafon' and a video on the channel that says 'how to "melt" stone'. Blew my mind going through his videos.

@chris_sndw Жыл бұрын

Maybe they could "sinter" these materials in some way to make them in an easy and cheap way. They must have had much more advanced technology that us today.

@xisotopex Жыл бұрын

I am just glad the ceo of pfizer can afford to have custom granite counter tops. I would hate for him to have to go without.

@destob9586 Жыл бұрын

Thank you sir I think they used a sirum unknown to us composed of crushed pyrite And other organics to polish stones

@threegreencharms Жыл бұрын

Yes sir, I'm blown away too. Glad to hear from a master craftsman. Thanks for your insight!

@DanielEleveld Жыл бұрын

Master Gunsmith, Machinist 3 and Modelmaker opinion- I saw this a couple days ago and its been eating away at me. The thing that is so remarkable is the actual metrology; not contemporary to us but contemporary to the manufacturing date. The ability to manufacture at a given tolerance is constrained by the capability to measure those tolerances. More than just seeing the results of extreme manufacturing capabilities, we are seeing evidence of ancient metrology that is at the very leading edge of our current capability. The other thing that stands out is that tolerance is proportional to function and cost. If a client is asking for extremely expensive tolerances, you have to ask yourself for what function that may be. If a customer is making a part that requires no tight tolerances, you assume a much cheaper manufacturing cost at looser tolerances. A vase would definitely qualify for cheaper tolerances- meaning it is highly unlikely what we are seeing with this vase was considered expensive to make. Why hold +/- 0.002" on this vase if the human eye would never see the difference between that and +/- 0.010" or even +/-0.020". There are two answers- one is that there is some mechanical aspect to the outside of the vase that we have not identified (which really makes no sense) or this level of accuracy was cheap and easy to manufacture and measure.

@jeffreyyoung4104 4 ай бұрын

I watched an old craftsman working on reconstructing a mill with wooden gears and pin type teeth and carved teeth and he did the majority by eye and when he started getting down to very close measurement, he would use a goose feather to gauge the space between the teeth and such and the entire machine ran and was in balance without any vibration detected!

@seltonk5136 3 ай бұрын

My mate Cory C. has crystals that help you dream . I'm helping him move Thursday I will steal them

@mrosskne 3 ай бұрын

it's so sad that seemingly intelligent people are duped so easily by these con artists

@seltonk5136 3 ай бұрын

@@mrosskne youve been duped into thinking people are seemingly intelligent 🤓

@AustinKoleCarlisle 2 ай бұрын

@@jeffreyyoung4104 good for him.

@und3rgroundman865 Жыл бұрын

It's scandalous that we don't have such scans for dozens/hundreds of these vases. Is there nobody in the museums that even thought of it?

@thisguy35 Жыл бұрын

i think they did those scans and all but chose to hide it! lots of stuff as already been erased for sure now why is the real question for me

@airmark02 Жыл бұрын

No... they're to busy climbing the career ladder and keeping their mouths shut

@pdmacguire Жыл бұрын

It's like the Greeks, with the Elgin Marbles, they can't be trusted to care for artifacts which are not clearly their own, anyway.

@jellyrollthunder3625 Жыл бұрын

how many were scanned?

@zmarssojourner7435 Жыл бұрын

They just don't care enough to talk about it.

@rgrlee71 Жыл бұрын

I've been a machinist for 35 years and I can't imagine how these were made. They couldn't have been turned unless the handles were glued on. That means five axis machining, at the very least, around the handle peripheral. It looks to me like precision casting, but it's granite. Absolutely mind blowing. If anyone thinks these things were hand chiseled, they have no clue what they are talking about.

@seanlove7063 Жыл бұрын

I've noticed clear traces of ballend profiling work on some artifacts, so I'd say 5axis isnt absolutely necessary. I think the ideal way to mass produce these would be a vertical lathe with some live tooling. We could have achieved this in the 1960s I believe with NC card machines.

@johnmaccallum7935 Жыл бұрын

And there are many "experts" who are obviously clueless to anyone with a tad of common sense.

@shokabull Жыл бұрын

I was kinda thinking about the handles being “glued” or some kind of stone welding. Some of the shapes of megalithic structures to me seem almost poured or something. If you could do that (a bit of a reach) I could see maybe being able to attach handles after turning. Guess you’d have to see if there’s any deviation in material. But I’m just some uneducated curious person. Food for thought.

@nigelwilliams7920 Жыл бұрын

"...handles glued on..." If you look closely you can see that the imperfections / colour changes in the base stone are continuous from the barrel of the jar to the handles / lugs. They are of the same piece of rock; contiguous. That is the really hard part of the job - sustaining the symmetry in the part of the barrel at the latitude of the handles.

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Жыл бұрын

Really, glued on? If you've been a machinist for 35 years you should be quite familiar with how a mill and dividing head or just a lathe/mill combo would be able to make the same features.

@Silg2000 Жыл бұрын

After watching this and having a background in engineering and CAD modelling, my theory is that the 17 thousand of an inch varience accounts for the method or way in which it was constructed. Such methods similar to water jet, laser, etc. Obviously unknown methods to us now, but that gap in precision isn't actually a gap but the width of the creators "tools"..... Truly beautiful and awe inspiring. Thanks for finally analyzing this and presenting it.

@xndr_mrw Жыл бұрын

Search for a channel called 'Infrafon' and a video on the channel that says 'how to "melt" stone'. Blew my mind going through his videos.

@bcccl569 Жыл бұрын

@@xndr_mrw just watched that video. absolutely ASTOUNDING. vibration and resonance is probably the key to all this.

@xndr_mrw Жыл бұрын

@@bcccl569 and he is doing primative tests and devices with crazy results. He has video's on mutliple devices and mechanisms on his page.

@Ebadd9 Жыл бұрын

This looks like how the tubular holes could have been made, looks similar to a tattoo pen and they have found mummies over 5000 years old with tattoos. Also I saw some video that said a lot of tuning forks has been found that aren't on display, if you hit a note it will vibrate against a surface and they could have used this as a tool for stone work, and then expanded on that concept with further developments.

@TheDocLamkin Жыл бұрын

I think its the science of reversing an explosion. An evolution of setting concretes. Vibration is a key variable, plus content pattern dispersion, and setting. These ideas taken to the extreme to where you take the dust of a stone, suspend and set them in patterns. how I don't know

@userservic23 Жыл бұрын

I am a Master Machinist. I'll start tomorrow on the aluminum one I don't even think I could get that close. Any tool on earth we use in the machine shop would absolutely die if it touched a rock. So to have .009 of an inch parallelism to B and .005 of an inch perpendicularity to A over 6" at least is pretty nuts. I would love to try and make one out of the granite but I don't think it is possible at least not with my machines I have access to. Maybe with live tooling 9-axis cnc grinders with diamond embedded cutting wheels but your still fighting tool wear and uneven hardnesses. I'm using rough measurements from the video and the value from the height gauge to make a very close model to make on my machines at work. once there is a cad file to work from or even a blue print I'll make an exact copy or at least give it a damn good shot. I'd also love to make one on the manual lathe/mill but id need a few thousand in tooling I believe. I don't think the people at the museum have any idea how hard this would be to replicate 1 let alone but then have thousands of them is insane.

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

keep in mind there is at least one stone vase in a museum that has walls as thin as a playing card, Ben shows a photo of it in a few of his videos.

@Dansean84 Жыл бұрын

One of the most important things to remember this precision is on a vase, not a delicate part of a machine, it's a vase. Any civilization that has this precision for a vase must have massive technical abilities.

@Raidz-448 Жыл бұрын

And thus we find epic constructions like the great pyramid :)

@krusher74 Жыл бұрын

We dont build a vase to this spec today there is no reason to, we would however if a cheap/fast process happen to return that accuracy with no drawbacks just let it happen.

@glennmorris25 Жыл бұрын

@@krusher74 you make a very important point, from a contemporary perspective. We would never make a container out of stone. It would require too much time and effort. Either: 1) the ancients who made it had technology that allowed them to work stone with the ease that we work ceramics 2) stone containers (think giant granite boxes found empty in the pyramids) and their properties are more important than we can comprehend yet

@bobfoster687 Жыл бұрын

@@glennmorris25 2

@glennmorris25 Жыл бұрын

@@bobfoster687 why do rich folks use silver spoons?

@JC-db4ih Жыл бұрын

Iam a engineer who engineered high precision rotary tables to measure gas turbine rotors and i find this so impressive. Thanks what a great video👍

@daltanionwaves Жыл бұрын

How would you build the axis of rotation without bearings? It would have to have very low wear to stay true long enough to make something... I guess if the axle was say 50 feet long, and rotated on thin wheels at the front and back of the axle, you could get very precise perpendicularity.. it would take a little imagination to do this without steel, but I guess it's possible. It's interesting to think how many times precision manufacturing methods have been rediscovered/reinvented over the years... It's becoming more and more evident that there was a very advanced civilization during the ice age, prior to 10k years ago. It's too bad the biggest cities are always on the coats, and all the coats from that time period are under the ocean. It's rare enough for a farmer to accidentally dig up a megalith, it's virtually impossible for any human to accidentally dig up a megalith that is under 50 feet of water.

@bradley3549 Жыл бұрын

@@daltanionwaves Perpendicularity is not terribly difficult to achieve as long as you have a rotating part and a good reference to the axis of rotation. Which leads me to believe that the techniques used to produce this example likely had a sort of accidental precision baked into the process. I'd be far more impressed if we found 10 of these objects and they all measured exactly the same. Making things very round is easy. Making things perpendicular is easy. Making 10 things that are all the same is VERY HARD.

@jamesn.economou9922 Жыл бұрын

I really believe engineers, of all disciplines should be more involved in these discussions. The world wide archeology department is crumbling, in this temple of their own. The one, that is filled with misinformation, forged stories of ancient stone works, and block/bedrock construction. I am optimistic with the amount world wide support , for honest scientific research to accurately dating these artifacts. btw.. the vases are more than amazing. The mathematics on these things, is like trying to get your mind around light years vs. bicycle travel. Thanks Ben

@5hiftyL1v3a Жыл бұрын

I'm a fabricator for a multinational corporation. These vases represent a decent chunk of man hours, but the tools used to are all simple tools made from wood and work hardened copper. You don't need a harder material to cut stone. You use an abrasive (thats still how we do it today). I could cut a granite block in half with a copper saw, a bottle of water and a handful of sand. And its honestly not that much slower then using modern power tools.

@Chaos------ 11 ай бұрын

So much dogma too, archeology in particular has nauseating levels of dogma present at all levels.

@martinezlucia101 4 ай бұрын

Everything they don’t understand is ceremonial or religious or decorative….

@AustinKoleCarlisle 2 ай бұрын

@@5hiftyL1v3a yeah man, this is why so many machinists etc are stumped. who knew that they were overlooking the simple fact that you can make these vases by hand? i mean, they must be pretty dumb, right?

@danielparsons2859 Жыл бұрын

It is frustrating and tormenting to have these artefacts and yet no evidence whatsoever on what technique or method was used to create them.

@muellertobias1441 Жыл бұрын

Hey Ben! I've been a huge fan of your work for years! I'm one of those mainstream historians who are supposed to hate you. I'm glad I didn't stay in academia but became a teacher instead. Hopefully the day will come when we can teach a more accurate version of the past in our schools!

@FartingInYourGeneralDirection Жыл бұрын

Retired machinist here... The run out measurement of the lugs to the axis of the jar are a feat in themselves!! To me this also indicates that the process of making them is likely done without removing the piece from the "turning axis" or "machine". Love your work guys and especially to you Ben... Keep it up as we're all better for it!! Much love

@PBJORKE Жыл бұрын

You're completely correct. The work piece is moved horizontally under the cutting head to both bore the interior of the vase then cut the outer surfaces. They may have had 2 cutting tools on different axis enabling the cut under the vase top rim as the radius of a blade obviously would not allow that without turning it 90 degrees.

@FartingInYourGeneralDirection Жыл бұрын

@@PBJORKE gotta admit I'd really love a 5 axis machine that can cut such hard material... This doesn't explain how they made the rectangular and triangular shaped stuff either!!

@PBJORKE Жыл бұрын

@@FartingInYourGeneralDirection the cutting head or heads only need to need to be oriented vertically or horizontally. Unless there is an angled cut somewhere I'm not seeing. The cutting tool moved vertically as would a drill press. Then the work piece is moved horizontally. The vase must remain fixed to the rotating plate at its base to maintain symmetry but could be move anywhere on the horizontal X -Y axis.

@FartingInYourGeneralDirection Жыл бұрын

@@PBJORKE only thing I've used close to what may do a similar (but far inferior) job would've been a indexing head on a universal head milling machine table and this wouldn't have been able to keep within a cpl of thousands of inch tolerance.[ My background includes weaponry and aeronautical engineering & machining and similar tolerances ]

@PBJORKE Жыл бұрын

@@FartingInYourGeneralDirection the equipment they used was undoubtedly without runout. I actually think they probably used 2 different cutting tools. One would be a boring tool for the interior of the vase. Two different types of cutters for that operation. The first would strictly be use to bore a cylindrical hole to the bottom depth. The a second cutter; a disc with a diameter slightly less than the vase mouth would be used to shape the interior of the vase. They would be able to expand the interior volume half the disc size, minus half the shaft diameter. The same tool would be used to cut the under side of the exterior vase lip. The exterior could be cut with a vertical saw probably a dado blade. That what I used in my shop for fabricating granite bowls.

@Galloway8652 Жыл бұрын

I completed an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering in the UK. The first year was machining using a lathe, milling machine, drills, a surface grinder and also hand tools. We had to machine brass, aluminium and mild steel to a tolerance of 0.25mm (10 thousandth of an inch or 10/1000) for reference. These are easier materials to work with than the granite used for the vase. We had a greater margin of error to work with and it was still difficult for us at 16/17 year old. I am confident to say without any doubt, they had advanced technology back then and would love to see more artifacts scanned and analysed.

@mesomachines Жыл бұрын

I'd like to see some electron microscopy of the tool marks. That would help to reverse engineer the manufacturing method. I think it could be done with a large bow lathe with a diamond cutting tool and a basic milling attachment made with wood and maybe ground stone bushings. Very interesting thought exercise.

@shanerorko8076 Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure but either they swapped the vase end in a chuck which gave the deviation or they had a finishing process that removes the tool marks. Often on the lathe I'll sand the tool marks out with some emery paper, so without actually knowing how they did it, it would be moot to study that aspect. Also there is no stones found that make a lathe so either they're hiding or they used iron 15,000 years ago that has since rusted away.

@diamondsea Жыл бұрын

I had the same thought, a basic lathe and corundum or diamond cutting tool might be able to create the inside and outside profile of the vase to any desired thickness (in principle, not sure how it would be affected by inclusions). The challenging part is the lug handles, and this is the part where the measurements would be most useful. The jug could have been cut with the lugs as a constant shape around the full width of the jar, and then afterwards could have been ground down by other means everywhere except where the two remaining lug handles are. These are the ground-down portions and the surfaces between the lug handles are where the measurements of tolerances would be most telling, but these are not measured in the provided reports. I would like to see that variances in tolerances in the surfaces on the plane of the lug handles from the top of the lug to the bottom of the lug. Additionally, the variances in the placement of the drill holes in the lug handles is also not provided, but would be insightful as they would also require a third step in the manufacturing process.

@KennyEaton603 Жыл бұрын

Have you ever seen the lathes used to turn granite, even those used 100+ years ago? They are massive. Lathes rely on mass and rigidity for accuracy. The biggest issue I see with a stone and wood lathe is wear. You’re going to be wearing the spindle out nearly as fast as you machine the stone. This will lead to increased inaccuracy as machining progresses. Stone is also not a homogeneous material. It differs in density and hardness throughout. If your machine is not exceedingly rigid, this will cause tool deflection and runout that will become increasingly difficult to correct. 3D contouring is also exceptionally difficult on a manual machine, even today. I cringe at the thought of trying to replicate that vase, despite having significant advantages in tooling and machinery. Those handles are an absolute nightmare for a manual machinist given the tolerance. We know they had the ability to work with metal like arsenic copper. The idea of a lathe made from it is not beyond the scope of reality. A spindle made from arsenic copper would be relatively durable, and a softer metal similar to the babbit bearings used a century ago could have been possible. Even Lignum Vitae would be suitable for bearings, as it has been used in ships as bearing for prop shafts. The question is, where are they? It doesn’t seem like a technology you would cast aside, unless it was an earlier civilization that used this technology and dynastic Egyptians didn’t actually make these objects. If the Egyptians found such machines and didn’t know how they operated, they could have repurposed the materials to create things they did understand. Whatever was used to create these vessels, it had to be robust and repeatable. They made tens of thousands of these vessels.

@cocidiousmcbeth3646 Жыл бұрын

The handles pose one of many issues. They are part of the piece not attached later. This leaves a large chunk of the turned surface unable to benefit from a simple setup. How would you turn down the aria between the handles?

@norecordingsoftware3309 Жыл бұрын

@@KennyEaton603 Kenny post this comment in the main section so everyone can see you are making excellent points

@robertlanders5723 Жыл бұрын

Having worked as a machinist/toolmaker for 40 years, I find it absolutely astounding that it has taken this long to start doing any serious metrological analysis of these objects. And, in my humble opinion, this specific type of analysis will absolutely establish the validity of precision manufacturing techniques used by ancient cultures. Also, to echo statements I’ve heard you make... one does not “unlearn” advanced technology and replace it with more primitive technology, as mainstream archeologists are claiming has happened in Egypt. To put it bluntly, mainstream archeologists are simply full of SHIT. I also agree that archeologists do not have the expertise to legitimately analyze these objects. Therefore, they should keep their collective mouths shut. They are not professionally entitled to have an opinion. They are simply out of their element.

@bodystomp5302 Жыл бұрын

100%

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

have no doubt that if enough pressure is directed toward a proper investigation, the Egyptian authorities are NOT above destroying these artifacts to maintain the narrative. this is evidenced by the tons of destroyed stonework removed from the Step Pyramid.

@DCboi51 Жыл бұрын

Agreed and mainstream archeologists know and understand this. That is why they closeguard the authority over ancient Egypt. They're scared to lose supre authority.

@clifflayne9073 Жыл бұрын

Cataclysmic events can wipe out not only learned technology, but also the teachers.

@curiousbystander9193 Жыл бұрын

thank you

@rksando1 Жыл бұрын

At a microscopic level, there should be tool marks on the exterior. It would be extremely useful to know what direction they run on the general surface, between the handles and on the handles. I didn't hear anything about this in the video.

@schweiza87 Жыл бұрын

We really should put the vase under a microscope!

@SDPickups Жыл бұрын

Those kind of marks you're talking about wouldn't be that noticeable, because these are POLISHED surfaces. Thats why I mentioned they should be put under an electron microscope to see if the polishing is linear vs random hand polishing. This really should be looked at and is very important.

@symmetricon1982 Жыл бұрын

They could be old enough that any tool or polishing marks could have been erased from human interaction over time. They could be 10k years old.

@pinballrobbie Жыл бұрын

The runout between the handles should be measured as this part of the body would have been unlikely to be lathed and would have been finished by hand.

@PBJORKE Жыл бұрын

I suspect there are the same tooling marks we would create with our current sanding and polishing equipment. Particularly striations from the edge of a buffing/polishing wheel. It would be possible to polish the entire piece with a right angle grinder using polishing discs. The rotation marks would be obvious.

@5hiftyL1v3a Жыл бұрын

Hey - does he ever address the fact that I can easily see even just by eye the fact the the lugs on the side are not even, the holes aren't aligned or they aren't even opposite each other?

@pauldmann1166 7 ай бұрын

The holes in the lug handles are not in alignment / to the same manufacturing standards, as the rest of the vase, which raises interesting questions about the time line of when the holes were made. Many vases have the lugs, but have no holes through them. This question is addressed specifically in "Talking Ancient Egyptian Precision Vases - Swapcast" video uploaded recently.

@5hiftyL1v3a 6 ай бұрын

@@pauldmann1166 im talking about the lugs being different heights on the vase, they aren't directly opposite each other.

@wefox8551 Жыл бұрын

Beauty doesn’t always require perfection...lets think about why this precision would be required for this object and maybe why they were all gathered up and hidden away

@xisotopex Жыл бұрын

it would either because the use required it, or it was just an unintended result of whatever manufacturing process used... either way, problematic for the gate keepers of these objects...

@JackO024 Жыл бұрын

Truly amazing Ben! I'm a CNC programmer. I work with 5ax mills. No lathes at the moment. It would be fun to get my hands on a solid model of that vase. I would prob need to scale it down to fit in my work envelope. It would be difficult for me to undercut the inside without some special tooling, but I could bore out the throat. The OD, and lugs wouldn't be too bad. I'm baffled how the ancients were able to make that. In production we never make only one. It would be super mind blowing if among the 40,000 pieces. 2, or more were exactly the same. That would be undeniable machine automation. I love your channel dude!

@Innomen Жыл бұрын

That's a really good question and point. Are there any identical twins in the 40,000 lot?

@goliath257 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic discussion dude many thanks.

@adamnyc7935 Жыл бұрын

@@Innomen in total, several 100,000 seem to have come from the Saqqara region. and yes, there seem to be many that are very close in size / spec. but since they were mostly scattered across the world, you rarely see 2 identical twins in the same house

@Innomen Жыл бұрын

@@adamnyc7935 That's still an extremely low degree of copy. If these were made by machine, the lack of copies could be a clue to its design. Procedural generation in the genre of vase manufacture?

@bradley3549 Жыл бұрын

You nailed the most important part of the whole thing. I'm not impressed with a single vase that has some good circularity, or perpendicularity. This sort of thing is easily achievable using manual tools. That's not even precision in the strictest sense. Precision is saying I want to hit this number and then doing it. And if you can do it once, you should be able to do it over and over. And without any known examples of many identical items being created I'm unconvinced that something more advanced than a simple lathe was used here.

@James-tu8on Жыл бұрын

I think the takeaway from these findings is that we need to start building our air and spacecraft with pounding rocks and chisels. Obviously the superior tools

@daltanionwaves Жыл бұрын

My conclusion as well. Carbide is expensive. But I have access to as much free granite as I could ever want in North Idaho. We just need to develop the tools, fixtures, and machines, and we'll be cranking out airplanes for mere peanuts.

@justinwalker4475 Жыл бұрын

hahaa 🙂 good one

@justinwalker4475 Жыл бұрын

😄👍👍

@martinm6368 Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't go that far. Good and well used CNC machines can yield even more accurate and precise results. That said, those things are expensive and not easy to operate. Therefore smashing diorite rocks at whatever you want to manufacture is probably still the way to go in most cases.

@steve37341 Жыл бұрын

I was thinking that the folks who believe these items were made with endless pounding with diorite tools have rocks for brains. But that's just me. 🙂

@jeremytaylor3532 Жыл бұрын

I once duct taped my mini grinder to the tool mount of my dad's old 1950s South Bend Lathe to resurface the brake rotors on my 1973 GMC van. I was a cash broke teenager and had to improvise. However I got real great smooth surfaces, and drove again that day. I had to slow the lathe way down, and allow the grinder to do the work. I can see that a person could hand spin a simple lathe that fast. Also if I took a mini grinder disc, and set it in a bearing, with a flex joint, and a 3/8 speed handle. A healthy kid could probably, spin it fast enough to grind stone. The mechanisms required, are not that sophisticated. One could actually build them out of copper, or bronze if you wished. As for the Artisanship I would not have the patience, but I have watched Lapidary guys, make crystal skulls, out of semi precious stone. The end product gave me a lot of respect, for guys with that talent. On the other hand, I could see technology, from some ancient destroyed civilization. Used by primitive cultures, being responsible. Just find some proof.

@johnbrooker3407 Жыл бұрын

I did stonemasonry of many types for over 20 years. We use the finest Masonary stone hammers ,chisels and diamond saws . Granite is very difficult to work with if you have to do any shaping at all.I do not think even the Finest mason could produce that.

@xndr_mrw Жыл бұрын

Search for a channel called 'Infrafon' and a video on the channel that says 'how to "melt" stone'. Blew my mind going through his videos.

@BDE360 Жыл бұрын

Well, I guess you would have lost your job in Ancient Egypt, or wherever the vases were made. It is safe to assume that ancient Egyptians were the best masons in world history.

@StratospheralNurse Жыл бұрын

@@BDE360 it’s never safe to assume anything

@jamesclerkmaxwell8020 Жыл бұрын

@@StratospheralNurse Yet life would be impossible if we did not made assumptions every day, and believed them to be safe (eg "I assume it is safe to cross the street"). But I agree those are only assumptions, hence prone to error

@fireblade2681 Жыл бұрын

paleolithic societies had a culture of hand working stone for 460,000 years at this point. Maybe they were better at handworking stone than modern stonemasons. A child would probably start practicing making flint heads at 3 or 4 years old and would do it every day of his life

@vcocciolone Жыл бұрын

I have worked many years in precision machining and also as an inspector of other machinists work using similar measuring equipment. These guys are legit, know their shit, It seems to me, if anything, they held back their reactions for the sake of professional composure. It is truly something amazing! Of the many thousands of such vases found, we've only ever really seen small groups of various shapes and sizes on display. My questions: Is every vase unique in its dimensions? ...or are there batches of vases that follow patterns? And if so, how large are the batches?

@UnchartedX Жыл бұрын

good questions. There are vases that seem very similar, and others that seem to have the same shape but vary in size. Part of a broader study would be identifying these things and trying to find out of there was a common design or even common component design (lug handles and the like).

@vcocciolone Жыл бұрын

@@UnchartedX Thanks for the reply. And the vid of course. Great work.

@dananorth895 Жыл бұрын

It's hard to make any definative, all inclusive argument until a large scale survey is conducted. Unfortunately there appears to be no cohesive well organized effort in the works. Part of the problem appears to be age/antiquity and the fact so many examples of this work have been looted/lost/destroyed. The other problem be that existing examples are scattered all over the planet. My first impressions were that there at least two types of stone work one formed like molded clay on a wheel and the other hand carved. Most puzzling are those with very small necks/orifices but carved out extensively inside.

@AnswermanAnswerman Жыл бұрын

It does seem to be one of those big problems here, as the mainstream dates almost all sites by pottery styles, types and design cover so why has so little work been done here! Should be books of data by now!! And just adds to the question of why so much push back!

@itsnot_stupid_ifitworks Жыл бұрын

I was trying to make a similar point to Ben earlier and i would like your thoughts. Finding two or more vases nearly identical would determine the level of precision of their work and of the possible lathe. The vase can have a perfect diameter at certain points( as long as it is held firmly ie in a lathe) but precision machining would be machining it to a predetermined diameter repeatedly . These guys and you would be checking for the precision of predetermined dimensions of machined parts? correct?

@Badge124 Жыл бұрын

Seeing the tops of the lug handles were within a half thou of each other in relation to the base makes me think the base was the manufacturing reference. Maybe Alex should have made the base the reference plane from which to derive all the measurement. I realize they needed the internal diameter to have the z reference but they could also have used an outside diameter to ascertain this. Imagine turning this vase out of wood on a lathe. You probably wouldn't chuck it up at the top- you'd chuck it at the base so you could turn the outside and inside without another setup. Anyway, assuming they originally scanned the bottom of the vase at the time, they could still refactor all this data in Polyworks and see how everything measures up relative to the base.

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

the base is the obvious choice for a reference. leave it up to an engineer to make the top the reference point.

@carstenfischer5098 Жыл бұрын

Had a completely brain meltdown watching this. Thanks Guys

@dutchdroomdenker592 Жыл бұрын

Utterly amazing! Holy moly. As an engineer I’m quite honestly shocked by these measurements. Especially the concentricity

@ebaystars Жыл бұрын

The only thing that's eccentric is the utter idiot that runs the museum in cairo, one day he will be stuffed and mummified then we can get some new thinking into this incredible set of discoveries.

@wuzgoanon9373 Жыл бұрын

@Aqua Fyre Nobody can do that with STONE. Clay maybe, but not stone.

@Garage.Philosophy Жыл бұрын

@Aqua Fyre this isn’t pottery my guy

@BurningDownUrHouse Жыл бұрын

@Aqua Fyre First off these aren't made from clay. As pointed out in the video these are made from granite and some even from dolerite, #9 out a level 10 diamond on the hardness level. Second, if you think one of these can be made like you say then let's see you make one. It has NEVER been done. They didn't have any such tools 5000 years ago. Bro, the fukin wheel was wasn't even invented yet let alone high precision machinery!

@johngosnell3847 Жыл бұрын

@Aqua Fyre The pottery pieces from Ancient Egypt are visibly less precise.

@beefandbarley Жыл бұрын

Love your channel and the content. I’m a professional stone sculptor with experience sculpting granite. When looking at your previous videos, there are so many stones that look like they came out of a modern sculpture studio. Complex curves, broad flat surfaces, precision and no waves. Amazing. Maybe there’s a room in one of the pyramids that’s full of angle grinders, diamond cutting wheels and polishing grits. I’m only half joking.

@bimmjim Жыл бұрын

YOU make the most difficult object. Make me one.

@slalomsk8er397 Жыл бұрын

@@bimmjim It would be a epic video series for a modern stone sculptor/machinist to try to remake the schist disk from most advanced tools backwards in time to the ones proposed by egyptologists. Imagine like the click spring videos about the Antikythera mechanism.

@johnnyclifford9423 Жыл бұрын

How incredibly awesome it would be to find that room full of the tools? That would be a game changer.

@beefandbarley Жыл бұрын

@@bimmjim Haaaa, not with copper chisels, granite dust, water and elbow grease! As those fellows said; precision lathes, precise milling, industrial diamonds, carbide tips and a mechanical engineer’s measuring tools would be necessary to get to standards of single digits/ thousand. Man, I love this stuff. I could make you one with small scale modern tools (angle grinder, diamond and carbide wheels and pads) but not to the precision of the video’s vase. Have a great day bimmjim. ✌️

@Mrbfgray Жыл бұрын

Maybe this is about to be blown wide open, at least to the extent it becomes excepted that crude tools are obviously NOT the explanation and we must keep digging. (((double subscribed here--2 identities/2 devices ;-) )))

@jameshamilton6628 Жыл бұрын

Fascinating! I’m a metrology guy. I’ve been programming a CMM for 20 years. And I’ve been working with a scanner for three. That data is amazing. Especially the parallelism on the side pieces. No idea how they accomplished it maybe a series of jigs. But no way those were created with hand tools.

@reymui2023 Жыл бұрын

I initially thought they did it by straightening their arm out front and sticking their thumb out, while closing one eye.

@TXLorenzo Жыл бұрын

I would like to know how the handles were made.

@007bird Жыл бұрын

@@TXLorenzo one at a time

@007bird Жыл бұрын

assuming they had carbide or diamond tools they would have saws and files to cut the handles. if you understood machining and tooling everything can be done with hand tools. just takes a lot longer. before lathes and mills everything was done with hand tools.

@TXLorenzo Жыл бұрын

Why don't you show us how it was done down to one thousands of an inch?

@ika5666 Жыл бұрын

The analysis of the surface under 1000X microscope would be useful. Maybe a hint to the technology used could be found.

@johnv341 Жыл бұрын

Yes. At some magnification there will be evidence of the toolpaths.

@ika5666 Жыл бұрын

@@johnv341 if it was mechanical... not chemical, ultrasound, or other magic...

@drtomintucson Жыл бұрын

I'm an inspector in aerospace parts manufacturing. The numbers reported here are difficult enough for our machinists to achieve consistently with typical metallic materials on high-end, well maintained cnc and lathes. Machining stone to this precision! That's amazing.

@drtomintucson Жыл бұрын

The image you reference is a model and not the actual object, so it's difficult to judge what we're seeing. However, it does seem that it would 'simplify' the manufacture to cut the handles in after the lathe work rather than mill them in on a 3 axis cnc afterward. Still, if they were indeed cut in, the precision of their placement and the practically seamless joining is still pretty damned great work considering the medium. I totally missed that image at first viewing. Thanks.

@drtomintucson Жыл бұрын

Good question for Alex and Nick.

@Sirithil Жыл бұрын

@not today The image referenced is a result of the scanning process and isn't representative of the physical object. The scanner they used can't physically fit inside the vase and thus they don't have a mesh of the interior surface. So the mesh is not manifold; only the exterior of the vase was scanned completely. What you're seeing isn't the interior of the vase, it's the exterior surface seen from behind. You can see a slight gold tint to that surface, which is how Fusion 360 denotes the 'back' of 2-dimensional polygons. It'd be really very interesting to see this done again with a scanner that could get inside to do the interior as well, you could compare the interior and exterior surfaces to check whether they're parallel with each other and the thickness of the material is consistent.

@podfuk Жыл бұрын

sure you are, this bullshit was debunked so many times, its not even funny anymore, it can be done easily, and imagine what can be achive if you have many generations of skilled stone workers, like Egypt had: /watch?v=dC3Z_DBnCp8

@oupahens9219 Жыл бұрын

@not today At 40:55 you see the inside of the actual vase.

@tjames22123 Жыл бұрын

Having worked 15 years in metrology I can verify the difficulty of machining perpendicularity to 3 axis reliably, even with modern machines and excluding the materials and cutting tools actually invovled here. Very interesting!

@adventurecat8496 Жыл бұрын

@Kenneth Thomas with the file of their scan, you could order a couple dozen copies tomorrow np. Far more complicated pieces being carved daily

@chaorrottai Жыл бұрын

@@adventurecat8496 You missed the point, it's not about having the design, it's about being able to precicely replicate the design. I'm a proffesional instrumentation and controlls engineering tehcnician and I run my own 3D printing business ad I can tell you that it's not as simple as just having the file and the machine. Getting trully accurate results with cnc machinine is absolutely possible, but it requires non-replicable work to be done for each individual block that's being milled. This this is that close after god knows how many years of actual use and then how many thousands of years of weathering? It must have been perfect when it was new. And that's the point. It's one thing for it to be perceptibly perfect, it's another thing for it to be measurably perfect. (I'm using the word perfect liberally)

@adventurecat8496 Жыл бұрын

@Alex Desilets let's order one from the best stone carving machine out there and see. Btw..if its actually real (and not made last year) I'm not sure why weathering is discussed? It looks like it was tossed around but chances are it would've been in a tomb buried.

@TheAlastairBrown Жыл бұрын

If you had 1000 years and armies of cheap labourers to work it out - do you think you'd have some good insider knowledge accumulated, special tricks and well designed tools for how to do it?

@rossnolan7283 Жыл бұрын

@@TheAlastairBrown No one is saying that each vase took '1000 years' or that you can faultlessly do handwork to this degree of accuracy -- it is simply impossible to achieve the end result now shown to be EXACT WITHOUT non handwork 'manufacture' (note the double puns here , "no one".. and "manu-facture" means literally made by hand -manual 'labour' ) Re view the video and really listen to the results and what follows from them..

@mrjackbagginz Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for these videos mr,. Its feeding my hunger for knowledge

@dachande1797 Жыл бұрын

Good to have a fellow aussie showing us this awesome content. Keep the videos coming Benny boy, love your work mate !

@dubselectorr345 Жыл бұрын

Mind blowing achievements that defy our logic and understanding. Only fools would dismiss this, we need more of this. Thank you Ben!

@panchopuskas1 Жыл бұрын

- maybe YOUR logic and understanding......... it's the same old "I don't know how it can be done, so obviously, it can't be done".......

@RegulusOrigin Жыл бұрын

@@panchopuskas1 Straw man fallacy much?

@chrissibersky4617 Жыл бұрын

The only logic way these things could be made is by knocking one stone against another.

@thehappycamper7360 Жыл бұрын

@@RegulusOrigin obviously they can be done as we are looking at them, its the fact of how god knows how many years ago.

@RealKlausSchwab Жыл бұрын

@@panchopuskas1 I have compassion for your lack of understanding of basic principles of manufacturing.

@juliusfucik4011 Жыл бұрын

I do hope the data will be made available. I have 20 years of experience in working with point clouds and have a few tricks up my sleeve. 70k vertices is great, but dealing with 20+ million vertices is the rule, rather than the exception. I would like to derive a vase profile and model (intended object) and provide a colored visualization of the deviation from the model. (Find the initial principle object axes using Eigendecomposition. Derive radial profile by finding point to axis distance. Iterate to optimize the axes, etc. There are plenty of fun things to do with this data to get more out of it. Import in Blender. Solidify on the inside. Send to 3d printer. Etc.)

@orbitalrocketmechaniccain3150 Жыл бұрын

Yea I really want the CAD file I have access to all the machines the mention and I know I could make an aluminum one. But the surface finish between the lug handles is a near impossible feature without polishing

@stevegibson1230 Жыл бұрын

I was a CNC Machinist at RR , making rotating parts in aero engines , and we always used flint chisels and pounding stones to make our parts from the super alloys we used? . Well that's what the archaeologists would like to think?. To make something out of granite like that , I have no understanding how it could be done , unless it was machined , you would need a rough and finish process to get it that close , because just the machining would knock it off its axis while taking the meat out , then it would need re-aligning for finishing , well we would today anyhow. It's just seems all wrong , how did they do it? Nobody would attempt to make these today , unless you lasered it. The lug handles means a ridge was left , and then machined by a 5 axis milling machine?..WTF? , then that machining was done exactly to the form of the turned body? , I think whatever they used is something even today is Alien to us. Just like to say aswell , the tolerances of this vase, is within one's we use for making turned aero engine parts today . Just another fun little point , in UK we pronounce VASE as VARS , you all call it VAYZ , just a little bit of continental drift for you. Can't believe you are coming to UK Ben!! Another superb vid.

@bradisley517 Жыл бұрын

As about a journeyman level of aerospace machinists I find that the top of the handles matching the base by sub .001 of an inch after a minimum of 5,000 years just wild. Especially since the wear surface is the base. This also tells me that probably the lugs/handles were a second setup feature. Frankly I would be very proud of a part/tool I made had those numbers after thousands of years. I'm the guy in the shop who is a fabricator. Without a five axis, I have no clue how to remove the material between the lugs. I have hand ground corners with a hand grindger for welding that have a reflective surface that looks machined. I have also faceted gem stones. I would be curios to the precision of the area along the radius between them. It might be a clue to the manufacturing.

@andyl3361 Жыл бұрын

Hmmm, as a machinist I have a questions for you... If you have a grade "AAA" granite surface plate that you put away for 5000 years do you think it would wear away by a appreciable amount? You could turn a cylinder on a lathe and be parallel top & bottom, I dare say that you could even do it on a pottery wheel. A cylinder with the profile of the handles done by lathe techniques, then with a milling attachment on the lathe to cut the non handle parts in between. I did notice that they did not compare the vertical parts of the handles relative to each other.

@5hiftyL1v3a Жыл бұрын

I'm a fabricator for a multinational corporation - I don't get your 'brag' about using a hand grinder. Fine grit sandpaper wheels for a grinder give polished surfaces in seconds with no effort or skill. It has absolutely no relevance.

@CreationNtheUniverse Жыл бұрын

Unchartedx can we get a microscopic imagining of the vase outer surface and inner walls ... basically close up picture of the surface... to see the striations or tool makers ... grinding Marks or sander polish marks... to see if the marks are uniform, or swirls or circles or parallel etc

@SoulDelSol Жыл бұрын

Good idea

@outandabout259 Жыл бұрын

Could be useful, but I doubt the surface has remainde unchanged for 5000 years. Original marks might not be visible anymore.

@nox5555 Жыл бұрын

@@outandabout259 maybe not, but its interesting, there also needs to be other tests. Chemical tests, DNA tests, etc maybe we will find out for what they were used or if any chemicals were used to help create them.

@purduephotog Жыл бұрын

@@outandabout259 True. But we don't know that, nor can we assume they've been altered. Nor can we assume they are original. All we can see is what we can see, which is what we do not have right now.

@gailliezcharles468 Жыл бұрын

That's what is missing, a microscopic imaging of the surface. Mostly between the two handles. Because without the handles you could lathe it entirely(with carbide tipped tools) but there are handles...

@lindenhoch8396 Жыл бұрын

Even those who will claim this vase is fake are going to have a hard time explaining how it was faked. Love your videos!

@bobbygetsbanned6049 Жыл бұрын

Exactly even a standard 5 axis mill or lathe with live tooling couldn't make this. CNC machines leave tooling marks, this would need a specialized machine for precision grinding, possibly a machine that grinds gears, which are not common.

@katdaddy469 Жыл бұрын

Not fake but impossible.

@adventurecat8496 Жыл бұрын

I would love for the vases in the museums to be scanned but Lots of companies have 5 axis cnc stone carving. KZfaq has videos and tons of stone vases for sale online. Occams Razor says it's a modern fake

@Vo_Siri Жыл бұрын

This is not hard to fake at all. None of these men deny that this vase could be made today with modern technology, indeed that's foundational to their argument. They provide zero provenance for this vase other than "It looks predynastic so it is"

@lindenhoch8396 Жыл бұрын

@@Vo_Siri Well, fake or not is a discussion on it's own for sure. But how was this even made, considering it's stone. I can't come up with any processes I know of, hence my comment.

@GiuseppeTheGoat Жыл бұрын

"Only .007" Parallel on the handles? Scrap it!" As a former Machinist myself and professional Metrologist, I am absolutely certain every one of these vases we find were just the "scraps" from the ancient machine shop. Somehow they were preserved by chance, while the "good" ones have been lost to history.

@samcorbin6744 Жыл бұрын

The degree of acuracy is simply mind-blowing. I would get in touch with a high-level CNC shop after you complete the CAD model/shop drawings and have them try to replicate the vase out of a relatively hard material like titanium or inconel. I feel confident that even the best machinist on the best equipment would struggle mightily to duplicate those types of tolerances. Simply impressive.

@simonlopes4301 Жыл бұрын

Agreed, and doing it on granite, with different cristals, lattice going in all different directions, means the machine has to be so much more sturdy than for titanium say which is hard, but at least is homogenous.

@samcorbin6744 Жыл бұрын

@@simonlopes4301 Absolutely agree. Machining a material like granite would be much more difficult.

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

@@samcorbin6744 have you seen the granite vase that has walls as thin as a playing card?

@samcorbin6744 Жыл бұрын

@Austin Kole Carlisle I have. It is absolutely insane and even more impressive.

@norecordingsoftware3309 Жыл бұрын

Someone at titians of cnc

@robpullar4257 Жыл бұрын

Speaking as a scientist, great and worthy video Ben. I would encourage you all to publish this work as a paper in a quality peer reviewed scientific journal - the only doubts I could see being raised would be about the provenance / true age of the jar (I have no idea what proof/evidence could be supplied for that). Most true scientists do not have totally closed minds! We are (mostly) looking for explanations for our findings, that is how advances are made and paradigms changed...

@UnchartedX Жыл бұрын

I did get into the provenance topic in the video - and obviously the goal is to build up a body of work, even better if we can get access to museum artifacts to scan with more verified provenance. A paper is being discussed.

@kcopara1 Жыл бұрын

@@UnchartedX Let's hope these archaeologists or Egyptologist do not prevent this from happening. I certainly do not consider them scientists although archaeologists like to think they are.

@AnunnakiAaron Жыл бұрын

@@SelfEvident and your comment here was of some value somehow?

@SoulDelSol Жыл бұрын

@@SelfEvident how do you know you're a better scientist than him? On what evidence are you basing that? Your comment is hypocritical in at least 2 ways. First you did exactly what you told him not to do. Second you call your self a scientist whilst making assumptions not based on any fact.

@richardraby6266 Жыл бұрын

@@UnchartedX I think a paper is a MUST, it is the obvious next step.

@nonono285 Жыл бұрын

You're on a slippery slope here, moving from investigative journalist to scientist, keep it up. I hope someone gets these guys to scan a dozen more vases and perform cross-examinations, this is getting more and more fascinating.

@Mrbfgray Жыл бұрын

Must have been 'easy' for them, this level of precision isn't remotely required for a flower pot. lol

@seekthetruthuk Жыл бұрын

incredible! Ben as always thank you so much for your great content! You are a leader in this subject matter always been a huge fan from the start! Please don't slow down or stop we need you! Because of you and others like Graham and Randall made me start my own channel sharing the topic of lost ancient advanced technology! Legend mate. Thanks QEC

@cf2851 Жыл бұрын

46:50 I'm a manufacturing engineer at an aerospace shop that has some very nice turning and milling centers. I could make this part out of aluminum or steel, stainless, titanium, probably inconel, but not granite. Granite is generally cut with diamond-based abrasives, more like grinding than turning or milling. I would really like to see someone make one of these out of granite. I want to know what guy fills his CNC turning center with granite dust. Heck, I would even like to see a company quote this part.

@darapsas Жыл бұрын

I would love to see a video of you making this vase with aluminum and then letting them measure it. I'm not doubting your statement, just very curious how someone would go about doing this challenge.

@cf2851 Жыл бұрын

@@darapsas Honesty it's not a terribly difficult part to make from aluminum on modern computerized machinery, even the precision tolerances measured in the video are not that difficult. The problem is that these machines are really expensive, measured in at least 6-figure dollar amounts, and are therefore scheduled to produce as many profitable parts as possible. A vase is not profitable. Considering cost of materials, tooling, labor and machine rates it might be something like $5000, with aluminum. So there's a huge difference between what is possible and what is practical. My point really is that our modern precision machines are designed to produce parts from metals. Granite is an entirely different story. There is no machine that I'm aware of that would produce granite parts using these methods, as there is no good reason to. It's expensive, difficult, and makes an awful mess that would damage the moving parts in modern machining equipment. These vases were produced using methods that we don't use today, out of materials that we wouldn't consider.

@HefenSankhTepra 10 ай бұрын

Could you possibly give an estimate on a quote no matter how much of an educated guess that would be?

@cf2851 10 ай бұрын

@@HefenSankhTepra 1 part from aluminum? $3000. Maybe more if you need special boring bars for the inside work. Need 100 parts all the same? $500 each. For granite... no quote 😉

@philarcher4130 Жыл бұрын

Robert I'm the same as you as a machinist for over 40 years fpr General Electric and have a shop in the garage. I'm speechless concerning the skill level of the craftsman that made those 5000 year old artifacts. We have a big cnc router that makes some amazing 3D stuff also in my shop... And still my capabilities are limited to machine stone. just totally amazed. This video is outstanding!!! Very skilled individuals. Thank you for this its about time someone made this known.

@NotMe...126 Жыл бұрын

Thanks, Ben, for briefly covering the topic of lug handles in this video. Most other content providers show these amazing ancient urns & vases, but then ignore the handles as if they are no big deal. The fact that the handles are part of the body of the vessel, not somehow added afterward, and are essentially in "raised relief", if you will, proves that the vessels could not have been turned on a lathe - at least not any lathe that we can comprehend. As you point out, it took us well into the Industrial Age to even know what we are looking at with many ancient Egypt artifacts. The lug handles are proof of an ancient technology that is actually still beyond our present scientific understanding.

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Жыл бұрын

Excluding the obvious difficulties of working with stone and whatnot, it's certainly possible to turn a shape like this vase entirely on a lathe, but it would require a somewhat niche method for a lathe and specialized accessories to accomplish it. If I were trying to reproduce something like this, here's the process I'd use: Start off by turning the entire thing and leaving a ring where the lugs are, in their final outside dimension. Then use something to stop the chuck from rotating freely, just a few adjustable stops on the chuck itself, in order to prevent the tool from cutting the lugs off as the piece rotated. The lathe would rotate until it got to where a lug was supposed to be and hit a stop, preventing the tool from cutting into a lug. Plunge the tool in the space between the lugs and turn the vase back and forth while cutting down to the final dimensions, continue on both sides until you've removed all of the ring except for the remaining lugs. The type of lathe you'd need would be the equivalent of a lathe/mill combo or a powered cutting tool on the tool holder (for lack of a better explanation, imagine clamping a dremel holding a bit to the tool post), and of course a set of adjustable stops for the chuck. As mentioned in the video, changing out tools or re-indexing the part introduces inaccuracy, so instead of turning the entire vase in a traditional sense with an unpowered tool, it could technically be cut with the same powered tool attached instead of swapping out for the two different operations. Which leads to the concept that maybe the lathe didn't need to be powered at all, but rotated slowly with the stationary powered tool doing all the high speed cutting. In today's world, I'm imagining something more analogous to a horizontal mill with a dividing head rather than a traditional lathe. It could certainly be done on a normal lathe, but it seems to me that a horizontal mill would make much more sense for this process.

@florianartus3231 Жыл бұрын

@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Obviously, as the lugs have such a "ring" profile, they have been turned like the rest of the vase. Your "first step" at least is right. I don't understand why everybody wonders about the level of precision and symetry : it is unavoidably the case with all tuned objects... ?

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Жыл бұрын

@@florianartus3231 That's the problem, not a single archaeologist/Egyptologist or institution believes they were turned on a lathe. The only accepted theory is that they were hand carved because they found no evidence for lathes or machines in the archaeological record. This entire video is about using the vase measurements as proof that they were machine turned in some way, at the very least. We may not have found the machinery or tooling that they used to make these vases, but we have the vases, and by measuring their precision it becomes harder to sustain the theory that they were hand carved. If the vase measurements could provide unquestionable evidence that they were machine made in some way, it would change a whole lot of what historians assumed about Egypt. This level of precision and symmetry is still not easy to come by, even with a lathe, and certainly not on stone. You can turn an object and still make wonky shapes that aren't symmetrical or precise in relation to each other. Runout, concentricity, etc. are all things that plague even experienced machinists. Trust me, I made plenty of wonky stuff starting out LOL

@cf2851 Жыл бұрын

@@florianartus3231 That isn't true. There are many reasons why a turned part can be out-of-round. Play in the main spindle, unbalanced chuck, worn areas in the carriage ways, tool deflection, etc. These parts often look "round" to the naked eye, but nothing is really perfectly round (or flat, or parallel, or perpendicular...) When we talk about "precision", what we really mean is "what is the error?" The measured error on these parts is really, really small, and that's hard to explain.

@PBJORKE Жыл бұрын

@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper your understanding and assessment is basically correct. The vase is cut on a rotating plate much like a potters wheel. There is no need for motorized rotation of the work piece because the cutting tool is powered. I used a similar setup to fabricate 20" granite bowls. The cutting tool is essentially a dado blade turning in a vertical axis. This allows for the lugs to be cut on each end and shape the whole vase with the exception of the under cut below the vase rim. That is cut with a narrow blade cutting horizontally.

@joeamato4310 Жыл бұрын

Awesome Ben, I have been watching your channel from the beginning. And want to say how amazing it has become over the years. Great production values, and you, sir. Have become an eloquent, well articulated presenter, interviewer, citizen scientist / field researcher. Kudos to you once again. Quality work. Say Hi to Randall and the crew. Peace

@sasquatch2743 Жыл бұрын

Saw you on JR show , great work , wishing you the success you deserve … keep at it we need guys like you ❤

@jimkillough8340 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Ben, for this outstanding video! I am thrilled to experience this examination of a truly ancient stone vase. I have observed master machinists reproducing parts in nuclear power that could no longer be purchased. Much of the same techniques and equipment used, were used by them to complete their tasks. The structural items comprising the equipment used and the tensile strength and hardness, to work these metals was almost indescribable. Single simple misalignments could ruin an entire piece requiring the trashing of hundreds of hours or progress. I have often tried to visualize or imagine the bits used, to create these stone artifacts, the seatings, and fixtures. Using wood and stone braced with copper, pure balderdash! I can't even concieve of how these parts could be used to fashion the needed support equipment without the highest technogy. Sure, a gemstone of neccesary hardness can be fashioned into cutting tools, but what happens if a tool breaks? You can probably never hope to create a matching bit for the material being worked, at least not a tool having the needed prescision and surface fit and profile characteristics required to continue the carving. Excellent video and data!

@nuffseed596 Жыл бұрын

A massive nail in the sarcophagus of the official narrative has just been hammered. Thoth would be proud!!

@iain2053 Жыл бұрын

Nick, Adam and Alex explained the complicated stuff so freaking well. Getting one of these vases scanned is such a big step. You guys are doing amazing work!

@miramarfinancial Жыл бұрын

Truly mindbending. One question though- why did you not measure or report on the consistency of thickness throughout the walls of the vase or the relative thickness/distance from the inside wall to the outside wall? While the metrics and accomplishments discussed seem near impossible, this thickness data would ice the cake. Either way, this is great stuff! Thank you!!!

@MartinPerez-yv4fu Жыл бұрын

Love the content brother keep it up 👍

@MrFukyootoob Жыл бұрын

Who else makes vanguard information so easily digestible? This video was unbelievably informative, so cool to see research happening and really understand what's being discussed. Great job!

@carharttblade Жыл бұрын

And how they were trying really hard to explain in such details to make it 100% clear and not just throw the conclusion out there like school or modern science does

@andrewholdaway813 Жыл бұрын

@@carharttblade Yeah science and school, who needs 'em when you've got this twaddle to guide you

@carharttblade Жыл бұрын

@@andrewholdaway813 90% of things you had to learn in school you dont remember anymore, school is good for trying to make you less feral and guide you somewhere for the future but knowledge itself is useless

@andrewholdaway813 Жыл бұрын

@@carharttblade _knowledge itself is useless_ A comment that says so much about you fools.

@samkostos4520 Жыл бұрын

@@carharttblade you're a dunce. Silica sand is harder than granite. It's plentiful in Egypt. Why would it require special technology? Also the great pyramid is limestone but it's filled with twigs and reeds in the joints. All date to the accepted chronology you weirdos

@dragineeztoo61 Жыл бұрын

Ever since I first started watching your channel it's been my desire that exactly this type of measurement analysis of these stone vase artifacts should be done. I can't say how pleased I am that this has now been done on at least one such artifact. Well done to you all! And, may I say, it's great to see Christopher Dunne's offspring carrying on the family tradition.

@Merito932 Жыл бұрын

This highly sophisticated analysis is not just a step toward proofing of the advanced civilization & debunking the chisel and rocks theory, it is a rocket to the moon kind of step.. Salute to you and to your respected colleagues for this very important discovery

@21LAZgoo Жыл бұрын

yessirrrr

@jeffreymcneal1507 Жыл бұрын

No, sorry, you're falling into the same trap we were all baited. Check out the work of Russian archeologists replicating many of these "impossible" feats using copper chisels and rocks. This bubble needs some bursting.

@akuhei032 Жыл бұрын

@@jeffreymcneal1507 Name or link?

@M1ggins 10 ай бұрын

uh-hu, so how come they didn't bother to employ this precision for the handles then? Its clear to the naked eye that the drilled holes are skewed.

@mrosskne 3 ай бұрын

please stop being so gullible

@JimmyRJump Жыл бұрын

This is stuff that almost brings tears to my eyes, just for the fact these data and measurments can't be waved-off as coincidental and is proof, again, of the use of high precision tools in a time we were, according to mainstream academia, supposed to knock two flintstones together to get a spark that will light a fire. Glorious and precious investigative work has been done here and our (my) thanks for this can hardly be put into words. Cheerio Ben. Warm greetings from Belgium.

@ianboelts Жыл бұрын

been following you for a few years! love this. super stoked to see people like yourself and Graham Hancock leading the way on this journey. I also have to say I have a lot of respect for you both in they way you're able to word your content. it comes off as humble and respectful while also doing the hard work of shaking loose some of the stigma surrounding these discussions. awesome!

@Oldsmobile69 Жыл бұрын

I'm having a hard time following this video because they use imperial measures and those don't say anything to me. "Thousands of an inch..." is that a lot? Is that very close? No idea.

@Mrbfgray Жыл бұрын

Same here. Being on Rogan should really put him on the map, escape velocity at hand.

@thehardnesschannel1605 Жыл бұрын

Think something called Google can help you, above this video you will find a search box, or it’s about 1/16” above the top of this video on most smartphones

@statonix Жыл бұрын

One thousandths of an inch is equivalent to 0.0254mm

@Mrbfgray Жыл бұрын

@@Oldsmobile69 Pull a hair out of your scalp and cut it in half lengthwise. (in your imagination) That's conceptually 1/1000th inch. Or imagine assembling some machine parts, putting a snug bearing shaft thru a gear say, connecting rod or main bearing, there's about 3/1000s of an inch clearance.

@KennyEaton603 Жыл бұрын

I’ve seen some people mention that we can scrape metal flat to incredible tolerance and lap things very flat. That is true. As a machinist, I’ve done both. When it comes to a shape as complex as this vase, you’re not making it happen with scraping, with a chisel or by lapping it. Lapping would be feasible if the handles weren’t there. But those pose a number of issues, none of which are particularly easy to overcome. I’m surprised there isn’t more runout. Extensive polishing would tend to induce some runout, so that makes me believe these had a really good surface finish before they were ever polished, if they were.

@shonuff4951 6 ай бұрын

As a machinist of over 20 years, I'm amazed at the number of people who don't realize what they are capable of... Ancient Egyptians had all the technology of sawing, drilling, boring, amd grinding down to a smooth finish. It's dishonest, and an insult, to suggest that this was done by anything other than the hard work of mankind.

@frozencanuck6764 Күн бұрын

The ancient Egyptians were simply not capable of working these types of stone with the tools and materials they had. Do you realize the tooling required to core drill rose granite? Or to obtain tolerances in finish to within thousandnths of an inch on some of the hardest stone there is? What type of tools were used to achieve this? Advanced tooling and measurements are required.

@shonuff4951 Күн бұрын

@@frozencanuck6764 Sand... It is as hard as or harder than granite. Look up the method for yourself. It has been proven and demonstrated to be able to cut granite. Like I said, they had all the technology they needed.

@frozencanuck6764 Күн бұрын

@@shonuff4951 It has not been proven. Modern archaeology simply has no answer for it. I've seen the sand and copper blade experiments on granite and it would have quite literally taken decades to cut a block...but you're still left with the problem of how it was finished to a precision of the width of a few thousands of an inch. This is simply not possible with simple blocks, let alone the complex 3d geometry found in granite statues.

@shonuff4951 Күн бұрын

@@frozencanuck6764 Like I said, it has been both proven and demonstrated that they were able to cut granite with simple techniques. It would take no where near a decade lol... Maybe a few days or weeks tops, depending on the size of the stone. They could get however precise they needed to by simply grinding a little more off until they had the exact dimension they wanted. Same as we do today. Educate yourself before commenting.

@frozencanuck6764 16 сағат бұрын

@@shonuff4951 Believe whatever you wish.

@w.alexedmonds8287 Жыл бұрын

Ben, please push to have this analysis prepared in manuscript form and submitted for publication in a peer-reviewed journal. The scientific approach and results speak for themselves. Getting work such as this published helps to move the needle further in the desired direction.

@dejawoo322 Жыл бұрын

can someone explain to me how they were made so we can figure out if they were as perfect as they intended them to be?

@curbina Жыл бұрын

That clearly reveals that you haven’t seen how these values comoare to modern manufacturing practices.

@MrHcharles Жыл бұрын

Nothing is perfect everything has a error even today that’s why today we have tolerances, eg this needs to be 1220mm long +/- 1mm so if it’s 1219-1221mm then it’s considered to be accurate As it’s in the tolerance range of the length

@radezzientertainment501 Жыл бұрын

@@dejawoo322 the variances are comparable to modern day aerospace grade technology and the artifacts are at least 5,000 years old, still seems too impressive to be done by human hands

@dejawoo322 Жыл бұрын

@@radezzientertainment501 the tolerances are within human capabilities. many examples of these in other fields. haptics science is a good resource if you are looking for info on it.

@spiderlady1943 Жыл бұрын

Absolutely masterful analysis - affirming the myth of stone tools/copper chisels! May your team's work be taken up and further developed. Be safe when you walk the walk Ben :)

@ianc4901 Жыл бұрын

"Copper chisels" !!! 😆😆😆

@michaelleblanc7283 Жыл бұрын

Fully agree - Even considering the size of the many errors involved, a Devil's Advocate can reasonably claim it may be possible this vase was a classic case of a typical 'Friday Job' and proof-positive the apprenticeship guys rushed matters to get out of work early to get read for the most sacred of all religiously observed ceremonies, 'Beer night' . . . [ : )

@Shadolife Жыл бұрын

And tens of thousands found just lying around. I'm amazed in the lack of interest, hopefully that is changing even as we speak.

@billdavis6238 Жыл бұрын

copper chisels can chip away stone btw. You can research copper and see that it can be very hard when you don't remind it to be 99% pure... you saying the Egyptians were making pure copper tools? There is no proof of that.

@RealKlausSchwab Жыл бұрын

@@Shadolife Imagine what we could learn if we could scan those broken artifacts!?.... or even the artifacts in the museums. We are just scratching the surface.

@al2207 Жыл бұрын

thanks for the professional view of precision engineer, if the vases were scanned with electronic microscope they will not find lot of traces at the molecular level , the tool that was cutting these pieces was cutting at the atom accretion by removing valence electrons , glassing is a side effect of the cutting by deposition of very fine layer of quartz

@johanrheeder1640 Жыл бұрын

A far more important issue is how will you go about holding that vase in a lathe or machine chuck and grip it hard enough without shattering it???

@AustinKoleCarlisle Жыл бұрын

especially the vase with 1 mm thick walls

@doc-illa Жыл бұрын

Always pumped up when i see a new unchartedx video! since the early days, this content is THOROUGH. I hope archaeology as an entire field can become this thorough and logical someday soon.

@radioactivepotato2068 Жыл бұрын

I'm so stoked. I'm gonna save this for later so I can watch it semi horizontally with a likkle smoke and a few beers.

@glennfelpel9785 Жыл бұрын

This is very impressive. Since you have the STL file for the object, did you consider 3-D printing the object with the most accurate printer available see if it can produce this equivalent accuracy? That would be an interesting experiment. Thank you for sharing this information.

@KingUsyk 5 ай бұрын

I 3D printed it on a machine I built myself with custom firmware and I produced an object the exact dimensions of the STL provided

@dunxy Жыл бұрын

Love your work Ben.👍

@Shadolife Жыл бұрын

I always say I would happily, even lovingly, dust those artifacts at no cost to the museums. Sadly, none have ever accepted my offer. Great show Ben, I hope to join you soon in an adventure. Thank you gentlemen for your time and expertise. Absolutely fascinating!

@pdmacguire Жыл бұрын

It is disgraceful and unseemly, the decades of dust built up in those display cases. If they can't even be bothered to clean the outside glass, they should just go ahead and sell artifacts they clearly have no interest in.

@OpenRoader Жыл бұрын

Reading the comments and speaking to friends in the machining world and hearing their opinions on these video's, on how they are all totally mind blown adds such incredible weight to it all. MORE, MORE, MORE!

@21LAZgoo Жыл бұрын

yessirrrrrr

@daltanionwaves Жыл бұрын

To make these without steel is hard to imagine. But they for sure used methods or processes that we redeveloped/reinvented after the 1500s. It's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's 100% not possible with hand tools. Some kind of machines or fixtures would have been used. There was definitely a whole industry worth of knowledge in these things, and probably more than one specialized tradesman. It's unlikely a single person made the cutting tools and also fabricated the products. And the level of precision is so far beyond what would be functionality needed, they were clearly making these to be perfect intentionally for the sake of making them perfect. Maybe for aesthetic reasons.. it's kind of like why would you use a building block that is 100 tons, when you already knew that a 10 ton block was way overkill and would last 10 millennia without issue. It's hard to make sense of. We simply would not spend 20,000 man hours on something that would be overkill with 1,000 hours. How would you pay those people? Feed those people? How would you justify the expense to everyone else working to support them? At the very least, their cultural values were vastly superior. We could never do things the way they did today, because it would not make sense to us. I can understand why egyptologists would rather not even ask these questions. Because these things are simply out of place and out of time. The most logical explanation as to how they could have made these things is that they already had the industry and infrastructure in place to make them. Which could only be the case if there are cities not dissimilar to Rome buried 10 feet below the ground, 100 feet under the ocean. Humans always build our biggest cities on coastlines because of the obvious resource benefits, and the coastlines from the ice age are currently under the ocean. Not saying that's the case, but that would at least make sense, so it's easier to just not ask at all. Especially if it means you get to keep your job.

@M1ggins 10 ай бұрын

That's if it's actually old and not a fake vase recently made for the sole purpose of selling it for 100x it's real worth to foreign collector, it has no provenance and has been dated by 'it looks pre-dynastic, therefore it is 4000+ years old' In fact not unlike the 'ancient crystal skulls' in various museums that were actually made in Germany in the 19th century.

@jellyrollthunder3625 9 ай бұрын

They should really allow independent researchers who don't have a massive conflict of interest (like Ben, Dunn's son, etc.) to come and double-check these measurements before we all start getting ahead of ourselves. That's how real science operates.

@jellyrollthunder3625 9 ай бұрын

@@M1ggins all of the UnchartedX fans still believe the crystal skulls are genuine. Remember, they don't care about the people fact-checking these claims when it has to do with Egypt so why should it be any different with the crystal skulls? They just put their fingers in their ears and go "la-la--la-la" until the scary fact-checkers go away, lol

@ToolsElectroDIY 2 ай бұрын

amazing topic and explanation, thanks!

@amylelas7197 Жыл бұрын

I love this channel and the work Ben does. The whole thing fascinates me and I'm finding it so hard to understand why more people aren't on board with the theory. Ben is so knowledgeable and intelligent, yet I adore how he comes across as so humble and, dare I say, almost starstruck and bashful when he's talking to other experts.

@RobertoMarsalis Жыл бұрын

I'd like to see a comparative analysis carried out on an inferior alabaster piece so that the difference in the level of precision can be that much more easily understood.

@FuZioNFr3nZy Жыл бұрын

Exactly this

@lovejumanji5 Жыл бұрын

Great suggestion! I found this video kind of boring …. It’s a fascinating subject too. I’m very interested in it. But I think your suggestion would go a long way in quantifying what they are saying instead of rambling numbers …..I once watched a video on the ankythera mechanism, by some professor, it was the most boring dry presentation I’ve ever heard! Meanwhile the thing is fascinating ……rant over , have a great day great suggestion!!!!

@UnchartedX Жыл бұрын

I've seen a lot of requests for the STL file in comments. It will be available in a couple of weeks with a more detailed report, I'll share it on my website and message via social media when it is available. As a reminder the metric and imperial reports are available on my website (in the post for this video) - unchartedx.com Also, the idiot scammers are going hard in the comments on my videos. They are using my avatar but look for the actual name - and my verified tick before assuming its me. I'm not asking people to message me over whatsapp or telegram, its just a pathetic scam, happens on tons of channels.

@adventurecat8496 Жыл бұрын

If we had the file, maybe someone could order a couple to be made and they could be scanned to compare the level 5 axis cnc precision.

@alacrityaudiooffice7716 Жыл бұрын

Er, @ 40:00 +, if the jar is spun on a lathe, how did they transition through the handle area and back to a simple circituitous lathe again? On a cam? At that speed? With that accuracy? What were they using as a cutting tool? Cooled neutron star core material??? Aw, c'mon man. Cut a drongo a break, cuz I'm struggling here.

@CornusFlorida425 Жыл бұрын

I am an expert machinist with 10+ years of experience. Similar to the gents!in the video. I happen to know man who owns a shop with 10 machines of varried ability ranging from 5 axis to live spindle lathes. He also does the CMM there. I’ll reach out to him and see if we can aid in the work being done.

@CornusFlorida425 Жыл бұрын

I am an expert machinist with 10+ years of experience. Similar to the gents in the video. I happen to know man who owns a shop with 10 cnc machines of varied ability ranging from 5 axis to live spindle lathes. He also does the CMM there, and he is interested in this type of stuff. I’ll reach out to him and see if we can aid in the work being done. If nothing else I own my own 3axis cnc machine

@davidberrien9711 Жыл бұрын

Forst, let me say I am fascinated by the work you are doing. You are bringing a technologically aware mindset to the study of these historical artifacts, with a view to uncovering the technical details of their production. This is GREAT. I used to assume the "experts" had routinely done this kind of analysis, but I have learned that this is quite naive on my part, and none of the Archaeologists (outside of Petrie, perhaps) routinely run any of these things by the Engineering Departments. I have worked in this field in several capacities in my (aviation) career. Designing tooling and test fixtures, and reverse engineering worn parts to produce technical specifications for production of suitable replacement parts. As such, I'd like to add a couple of refinements to your latest project here. The tools referred to here by your guests produces a "point cloud" output. I didn't see much detailed discussion of the algorithms or methodology for transforming the raw point cloud into a geometric reference object. For a credible analysis, you should also make the raw point cloud data available, and then describe the order of operations and show some statistical justifications for selecting the various planes, axes, and other reference objects, including identifying the deviations from perfect cylindricity, etc. in terms of the point cloud data. I know that for most people, this would be mind-numbingly boring, but I am not suggesting you do a video like this. There might be a way to produce some really cool graphics showing the development of the various axes, etc, and eventually resulting in a completed CAD file. Something like developing the plane from the vase mouth, and then using the circular edges to develop a central axis that can be used to compare the variation from concentricity of the sides, perpendicularity of the base, and any other relationships that may be relevant for identifying the specs for manufacturing the overall object. Show the progression and development of the description at each step along the way, documenting the various measurements, including quantifying the statistical basis for and how accurate they are at each step in the development. I am really suggesting this for your own edification, and so you don't get blind-sided by an Egyptologist with an axe to grind. I'm sure Chris Dunn has some experience with these machines and the raw data outputs, and could add some interesting insight into what I'm suggesting here.

@jerrycarter1928 Жыл бұрын

Having worked in the aerospace engineering field for 40 years I can appreciate the skill needed to create an object like this. What I find interesting is pondering how it was made. More specifically, was the cutting tool moved relative to the object (least likely) or was the object rotated and the cutting tool held fixed (most likely, but it wouldn't explain the side bulges with holes on the side). The rotated object with fixed cutting tool still speaks to tremendous precision they were able to craft. Amazing. As amazing as the exterior is, the interior is also very amazing. That is a lot of material to remove (cut and polish) leaving a thin wall all the way around. I do wish they gave dimensions of the object as I would be curious what was the opening, diameter of the 2 side holes, etc. As you look at other objects, what are their dimensions; are there commonalities? The more variability of the size of holes, etc would tell us a lot about the kind of machines they had to make these. No sane person could make a case these were done by hand...

@CONEHEADDK Жыл бұрын

BUT - if you were given all the men you wanted, and all the time in the world, would you not be able to create things like this? You can make your slaves create a simple machine, and then use it to make a more precise machine aso, aaaall the way to a machine, like the lathes of before electricity? And you could make your slaves use weeks on a detail, and pick the few of the best to keep? I bet you could - if you knew, that doing anything else would result in the gods eating your kids...

@jerrycarter1928 Жыл бұрын

@@CONEHEADDK It would seem you have never made anything with great precision. This artifact has nothing to do with time and lots of labor. This is about precision material removal. The interior, in particular, has a small opening to work through, so you couldn't have "chiseled" the material out and achieved the same level of finish and precision/uniformity. It's impossible to have done this freehand. The artifact tells us the precision of the tooling AND the craftsmanship was very impressive.

@CONEHEADDK Жыл бұрын

@@jerrycarter1928 I'm a fookin' inventor - shove your ASSumptions somewhere dark...

@jerrycarter1928 Жыл бұрын

@@CONEHEADDK nice response, clearly you know something noone else does. Perhaps you could post some links to your "foookin inventions" - I would love to see the precision of your work that could lead you to believe this could be done manually. I have never seen precision stonework done to 1000th of an Inch freehand over the interior and exterior of such a stone piece before. Perhaps all the people in this video who marvel at this precision to include me have it all wrong and you hold the key to educate the world.

@CONEHEADDK Жыл бұрын

@@jerrycarter1928 No thanks. And besides - sharing inventions only makes it possible to copy and monitize them, and it also removes the chance of protecting them with patents or things like that - AND it points competitors to the problem, that there is a market for solving - a huge FU for your arrogance - where did I claim, to have been doing, what you are asking for? I'm "just" used top finding solutions - and your not beimng able to see them, doesn't mean, that it is impossible - but it does mean, you are limmited between the ears... No need to "answer" me - I won't even read it - not that that will stop you - you being to narcissistic and arrogant to not flash your "superiority" (like the guy Will Hunting eats alive verbally in the bar) for the audience..

@mikegavone Жыл бұрын

Really interesting information. Thank you!

@timlarcombe9096 Жыл бұрын

I love this. I have been crying out every time I see a vlog on old artefacts for someone to scan them. It is beyond obvious that these artifacts were made by an older and more advanced civilisation and we need more research of this type.

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Жыл бұрын

Just to add context for non-machinists, when referring to some of these smaller measurements, that kind of inaccuracy can present itself when machining a piece and allowing it to get too hot when cutting. A 100F change in temperature can cause your part to grow several thou, and when you mistakenly cut the part to that final dimension while hot, it'll be several thou smaller when it cools back to room temp. So in a way, the tolerances here are so small that even temperature has to be accounted for when machining something out of metal. As for thermal expansion of stone, I have no hands on experience with machining it (cutting it?), but thermal expansion of granite is nearly as much as steel, which is half as much as aluminum. Just guessing here but based on these measurements I bet they took thermal expansion into consideration and made an effort to keep temperatures constant as well.

@shonuff4951 6 ай бұрын

That's why you don't let your part (or stock) go +100 .... Herpa. Derp.

@lg8498 10 ай бұрын

❤this information!!! And Super excited to see C. Dunns' son Alex build open his father's findings and help prove his theories. Continue the very important work guys!!! Thank you!!!

@kristimcgowandarkoscellard3126 Жыл бұрын

BRAVO!! Standing ovation from me!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 FINALLY!!!! Experts in the field of making such things have examined these examples and proved what many of us suspected was true, is in fact TRUE!!!! No one made these amazing artifacts with copper chisels and granite pounding stones!!! This is hands down the most exciting work done in this field!!! Be prepared for the mainstream to start attacking your character, because there is no way for them to attack the work!!!! This is so exciting and I thank all of you for your amazing efforts!!!🙏 Cheers

@anarkiamusicmovie7036 Жыл бұрын

Oh oh quiet... We need analyse the File but no File actualy.... We have anbalyse other analyse all is wrong, CHris Dunm has modify all value, all is wrong.....

@kristimcgowandarkoscellard3126 Жыл бұрын

@@anarkiamusicmovie7036 WHAT??????? I don’t understand your comment 🤷🏼‍♀️ Cheers

@5hiftyL1v3a Жыл бұрын

I could literally make this by hand with wood, reed ropes and a small selections of similar stones for use in grinding.

@daytonagreg8765 Жыл бұрын

“It’s a beautiful stone jar from the 1st dynasty handmade by repeatedly hammering it with bowling ball sized diorite!” -Zahi Hawass 👍😳

@King_Ding_82 Жыл бұрын

What a crook biggest grave robber in Egypt

@johannjohann6523 Жыл бұрын

Completed by thousands of workers in 20 years time for each piece. Talk about someone who likes to hear his own voice, and no others.

@nutbastard Жыл бұрын

ZH acts like someone who has been compromised. Like some powerful entity just flooded all his computers with CP and is holding it over his head. It's not national pride keeping him in line. It's darker than that. To protect what exactly? Hard to say. Lots of people hate the guy but I don't really buy that he's an arrogant dick. He acts more like a caged animal, or a hostage.

@pauls3946 Жыл бұрын

I can't believe that I just sat here and watched an almost hour long video about a vase! And I cannot wait for more. Great content.

@SimonAmazingClarke Жыл бұрын

Put simply these objects are IMPOSSIBLE to make with technology before the 1800s. Even today they would be very difficult to make with the high tolerances that these objects have.

@danvalentine2072 Жыл бұрын

I’d like to point out that even with modern manufacturing methods it is so difficult to get these levels of precision that we don’t bother applying them to things like food or water containers. Its just not economically viable for the purpose of the object. These types of tolerances are only required in complex machines with moving parts. What does that mean? It means that who ever made these vases had the technology to make precision parts and its was so easy for them that they used it on a simple vase.

@N238E Жыл бұрын

They were probably forerunner and God’s flood left no trace of their technology.

@karlschleifenbaum5793 Жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to skim through them and see if there are vases with the same dimensions. That way, you can be even more sure that there has been a machine producing them.

@jellyrollthunder3625 Жыл бұрын

seems like that would have been a good thing for them to check on while they were right there measuring the one vase. I wonder why no one bothered to. Seems like the same odd decision made at the Serapeum where for some reason no one bothered to take measurements of any other sarcophagi. I mean all that would have done is lend further credibility to your precision claims and I can't help but wonder if they just couldn't find any other examples of precision and they knew that was problematic for their narrative. I mean, technically Dunn never even found one. It was followed up on by outside researchers and they discovered that Dunn just completely fudged the numbers I guess hoping no one would ever check for themselves, and he might have been correct if we're talking about the alternative history community who don't really like fact-checking. Anyway, I'm just saying, in light of this, they should really be extra specially thorough to actually establish a pattern of precision otherwise what are we talking about? Plus, we need independent measurements just like they do in the academic community. This should already be the standard in the alternative history community, but that's the only way anyone is going to take these claims seriously, because the research is still incomplete. Nobody in the scientific community is just going to take each other's word on on their respective bodies of research. Why is this not the standard in the youtube historian community? I'm just trying to help you guy gain some credibility with people other than just each other. Keep up all the hard work!

@coryCuc Жыл бұрын

@@jellyrollthunder3625 Check out Isida Project for the answers to your questions.

@karlschleifenbaum5793 Жыл бұрын

@@jellyrollthunder3625 Agree 100%

@helix1061 9 ай бұрын

Awesome! Love the thought of scanning other artifacts.

@topdeckdog Жыл бұрын

Well done gentlemen. Please keep up the good work we're loving this 💪

@antoinepinnock1777 Жыл бұрын

Can we get a microscopic imagining of the vase outer surface and inner walls ... basically close up picture of the surface... to see the striations or tool makers ... grinding Marks or sander polish marks... if they are uniform, or swirls or circles or parallel etc

@SoulDelSol Жыл бұрын

They'll have polished away tooling markings and polishing can be done by hand

@antoinepinnock1777 Жыл бұрын

@@SoulDelSol the polishing process itself would have left marks at the microscopic level

@SoulDelSol Жыл бұрын

@@antoinepinnock1777 right but what would that really tell you

@antoinepinnock1777 Жыл бұрын

@@SoulDelSol easy ... the pattern can either be regular or irregular... circular or straight ... uniform or jagged... this will tell you if it was done by hand or machined or done by sand paper or sander... the depth and patterns can tell you about the hallmarks or signature of the methodology... or if chemical residue left on the surface was the real way it was all done ... etc

@zmarssojourner7435 Жыл бұрын

Great idea!

@amenjo5918 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if there are any pairs of these vases that could be compared to each other, or ones that are at different scales but exactly the same geometries? That would definitely be worth looking out for! Great video by the way!

@GhostScout42 Жыл бұрын

it would be fun, but probably wouldnt lead to anything, as these vases were hand turned. but it would be great just for more proof of how cool the ancients were.

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Жыл бұрын

@@GhostScout42 That's a bold assumption you just made. Not even machinists and metrologists are confident enough to say how they were made or what process was used, but yet you're certain they were hand turned. Not finding a single matching pair in hundreds or thousands of examples may imply that they didn't use some sort of mass produced process or template, they were all unique/bespoke creations.

@remyvermunt8623 Жыл бұрын

this video just prove they were impossible hand turned

@seancunningham4254 Жыл бұрын

Exactly what i thought, u would think certain designs would be mass produced, very odd that every vase is a one off, it contradicts the hypothesis of being precisely machined.

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Жыл бұрын

@@seancunningham4254 It would certainly be more sensible for them to make identical vases, at least in the context of someone living today in an industrialized world. Making each piece unique and individually would be an inefficient process today, since templates and guides and other aids that take human inefficiencies out of the equation wouldn't be an option if they were all one-off creations. It's one of the reasons why a mass produced item is so much cheaper than a custom made item, even if they're otherwise identical, i.e., a swiss army knife that costs $30 might cost several hundred if you commissioned a knifemaker to build you an identical one out of a different steel. I guess the other implication of not finding any matching vases is that perhaps they were mass produced, and hundreds or thousands of the same vase were made. That would mean we've only managed to find a tiny fraction of a percentage of what they made in total, even considering the fact that we've recovered thousands of them intact and tens of thousands of partial vases. Manufacturing on that level would indicate that their vase making was not only industrialized but also perfected and streamlined, something that you wouldn't be possible without an extensive use of machinery of some type. Of course, that's entirely speculation. perhaps wishful thinking even, because we have no basis to support that notion...not yet, at least.

@cakiepyunyuru112 Жыл бұрын

I hope more of these vases can be scanned and measured. I think you've shown that these had to be done by a precision tool, and it would be huge to see how many others hold the same precision. Keep up the good work!

@daltanionwaves Жыл бұрын

Not by a precision tool but by a precision machine(s). It's hard to imagine a reasonable way to make these without steel.

@megamike00712 Жыл бұрын

Check out the video, " On the traces of an ancient civilization, what if we have been mistaken about our past" It really goes into detail and analyzes a bunch of ancient sites and again find precision in structues and objects that are to perfect to be done by hand, it's just not possible. Anyways, enjoy

@seltonk5136 3 ай бұрын

Burps. Granite frisbees?

@martinrybar4806 Жыл бұрын

Great act for disclosure of fairytale science. Just a few notes: These stone vessels were not in Sakkara underground just as offerings, they had some technical purpose there. They were used to store some liquid stuf that was produced there maybe. If you look at the cellars with so called magazines under step pyramid and surrounding underground (with length of kilometers), it has the same pattern as the cellars for storage of beer or wine in historical and modern production facilities, they look very simmilar. So called stelas (with relief of Djoser) in Sakkara underground complex have some hierogliphic signs on them that are not common writings but the symbols that could be ingrediences in recipes. During excavations there were found wooden sledges that were used for transport of vessels. Sakkara complex was built for restoration of the power of pharaohs after long period of decline, the stone vessles are probalby much older. Cartouches of Pharaohs on them could be additional with very shalow and narrow relief. The source of power for the restored kingdom was connected with the liquid that was produced in Sakkara complex and on other places (we know about three step pyramids). I would focus on writings on the vessels, if these are made with the same precision as vessles itselves.

@j0rp Жыл бұрын

The mix of physical gauge and scan measurements in the video is great!

@CM-dp5mw Жыл бұрын

What gets me is this; if we assume these were made on machines of some type that implies an entire background of technology from power delivery to manufacturing the machines themselves. When you start picking apart all the things that had to be in place to make these vases it really boggles the mind.

@jasonrichardwatts Жыл бұрын

Pretty awesome hey?!

@Lookup2Wakeup Жыл бұрын

Agreed. The tooling of the machines to make the vase is another specialist skill in itself.

@DemoDick1 Жыл бұрын

That’s where I’m at with all this. Maybe I should re-examine “the pyramids were power generators” crowd. LOL.

@mirrorflame1988 Жыл бұрын

Being in this field, I am amazed at the precision and workmanship! We make the same using machinery now as well!

@Ba_stard Жыл бұрын

Im glad ur starting to get the recognition u deserve!

@rossgee2950 Жыл бұрын

As a scientist, it's refreshing to see a scientific approach taken to the examination of these ancient artifacts. Mind blowing results!

@timothyblazer1749 Жыл бұрын

Apparently no one ( non engineers ) understands that these guys are very, very good at their job. They work for Rolls Royce Aerospace...that means that they are responsible for the precision of civilian and military jet engines in use all over the planet. They really know what they are talking about.