Scanning Film Negatives Vs. Printing In The Darkroom

Рет қаралды 19,705

3 жыл бұрын

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I thought it would be fun to do a little comparison of scanning black ad white negatives vs. printing the negatives optically in the darkroom. I also go through my process of fluid mounting negatives to scan film using the Better Scanning variable height mounting station
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Relevant Links:
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Epson Perfection V850 - amzn.to/2LozSk5
Better Scanning variable height mounting station - betterscanning.com/
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Go to film photography setup //
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Hasselblad 500 CM - ebay.us/I76k2J
120mm CF f-4 Makro - ebay.us/gX4UVm
80mm CF 2.8 - ebay.us/BRBAuT
50mm CFE f-4 - ebay.us/rcJhiz
Go to film - Ilford HP5 - amzn.to/3oPiyTU
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Go to digital camera setup //
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Canon R5 - amzn.to/35FUX0r
Canon 35mm f1.4 L ii - amzn.to/3ioIBPl
Canon 50mm f1.2 RF - amzn.to/2N47Hax
Canon 85mm f1.2 - amzn.to/38PaH34
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Пікірлер: 90

@russellsprout2223 7 ай бұрын

Excellent, informative and well presented video. The icing on the cake is that the darkroom print is a clear winner and I'd happily put that on my wall, for sure. Atb.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 7 ай бұрын

Thanks Russell, appreciate that!

@john.rc.3274 Жыл бұрын

Great presentation. Honest and insightful. Thanks.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@stuartbatchelor3644 Жыл бұрын

Great vlog and glad I found it. I was searching for B&W negative scanning using Silverfast and found yours probably the best out there even though that was not your original intention. Great that it also revealed your digital workflow, following on to Lightroom/Photoshop. Great tip with regards to the folder in Lightroom. l learnt a hell of a lot, thank you. With regards the comparison, I actually preferred the darkroom print. One to be proud of for sure... Nothing competes with the blacks in an air dried glossy fibre print. Cheers

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Great to hear, thanks for the feedback. It really helps and I am glad you enjoyed 👍

@terrywbreedlove 3 жыл бұрын

I really liked the video I learned a lot. I did like the darkroom print better because of the contrast. I could see the wood and metal on the lower portrait so much better. However I wasn't crazy about the dark clouds but that is all an easy fix and a personal taste thing right.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Yes, sometimes I tend to go more dramatic with skies... just depends on my mood :)

@mathewmccarthy9848 3 жыл бұрын

I didn't know about the auto import in LR. Thanks Matt.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Your welcome! It is pretty convenient. I wish you could set up multiple folders for different applications but it still helpful 👍

@YoYoYo 3 жыл бұрын

Really cool video!

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@glennhunt3725 5 ай бұрын

thank you for this video. I have used the same scanning equipment using dry mounting. Three things to improve your scans. First (as mentioned below) crop within the image, not outside. this messes up the histogram (showing shadow and highlight clipping) and negafix (especially using colour film). Second you should be scanning with the black and white settings (not 48 to 24 pixel setting) use the lower one 24 to 16 on silverfast.. Third, to rid the dust use the SRDx setting (for black and white film) and Dust setting for colour. For colour negatives it does two scans, one in infra-red to delete the white and black "dust marks" and scratches: it is the best thing about scanning vs. using DSLR camera. The SRDx uses a pixel based setting for identifying "white marks" (dust). You need to adjust the sensitivity and pixels (eg. 12 and 25). You adjust these using x100 to view the mask size and moving the sliders until you get the right combination. Finally, as you are using AI Studio, you can add keywords and copyright information by clicking on ITSP? button in the upper box. This opens up a new menu so you can provide "metadata" to the scan. I use this to identify camera, film, location etc. Handy for batch scanning more than one photo to give it date, time stamp.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 4 ай бұрын

Man, thanks for the info... much appreciated!

@peterfarr9591 3 жыл бұрын

Just as a heads up, the Negafix section is designed to work if you move the boarder in such that the film border is removed. If you snap the frame in you'll notice a pretty big difference (at least on color film). On B&W you can probably get away with clicking the black & white points with the pipette. I would think with B&W the biggest diff would be the border setting too low of a black point. Your mileage may vary :-)

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I will make sure to crop in tighter. This prob explains some inconsistency I have had.

@mike747436 3 жыл бұрын

Would be very interested to see your inkjet dodge mask process, something I’ve never tried. I think I’ll always prefer a darkroom B&W print over an inkjet, but I’ve recently started scanning my negs and working digitally in order to more quickly and economically arrive at the ‘look’ I want, without actually printing. I’ll then go into the darkroom with a clearer idea of what I’m aiming for. I’ve tried some RA4 color printing and it’s a more complex and difficult process, so I generally stick to inkjet for that and I’ve been very happy with the results, particularly from Ektar printed on matt paper. Great video, keep them coming!

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I agree about printing in color for sure. I do not shoot a ton of color film but want to start more. The pigment color inkjet prints are beautiful on Matt paper. I have tried doing scans to get a grip on how I want to print a negative... I think it can work well. Usually I am just to anxious to get printing though. Even just a simple proof on RC I can hang up and look at for a few days. I want to cover masking negatives but have some other things in the works and trying to figure out how best to incorporate it in to a video or series but intend to for sure because I feel it is not something really well known and opens up so many possibilities in darkroom printing!

@nickfanzo Жыл бұрын

The darkroom is definitely more fulfilling

@gurhanpekuz1813 8 ай бұрын

Super nice video. Thanks. And I think darkroom looks better!

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 8 ай бұрын

Thanks, darkroom for the win!

@elizastephens Жыл бұрын

loved this

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@faraz2498 Жыл бұрын

I use scanning for dodge masks too, a really handy technique, though I also hand paint them or use a combo

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

I have only used the dodge masks out of the printer but imagine hand painting can be very effective as well!

@brucekowal7456 2 жыл бұрын

I have a darkroom as well as a scanner. I can do both. But as you mentioned, I spend enough time during the day in front of the computer, and I end up resenting, if that's the proper word, spending more time on computer. I shoot med format B&W, and have found the Apple Photos software to be more than adequate. I am a heavy user of B&W filters during my shots, and I also use grad filters from SingRay. I want to do as little dodging and burning as possible. Your camera work, split screen of computer program and your commentary is flawless. In the end, I don;t know which is more frustrating, dealing with supplies of grey and black toner cartridges for my Canon Pro-10 printer, and making multiple copies of prints until satisfied, or with the chemicals and the developing baths. One thing is for sure, the input is the same. There are no shortcuts. Scanning negatives is the only way to have presence on the internet. Right?

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Digital printing is every bit as frustrating for me as darkroom printing can be... and in the end I am always (well almost always) happier with the darkroom print. Just happier in the dark :) I have made scans of prints that look good... it just seems they never look as good as the original print and with digital printing you already have the digital done... so yeah a bit better in that regard.

@nostalgix8430 3 жыл бұрын

I just found your channel and watched a few videos. I am always struggling with digital processing of my images, that's why I like the real darkroom more I guess. I have to be done at some point. With digital I can do this for a week and I will never be satisfied. :D But I am not very familiar with all the features and workflows in Photoshop, so... I am looking forward to the transparency printing you mentioned. If that video does not exist already, I keep my fingers crossed that it will soon ;)

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

I feel the same way with digital. I do love it but my images never feel done. And I keep at it until sometimes they are way over edited. Darkroom prints are a bit different in that they have so much character based on the paper and developer. Then you work with those materials and your skill set to make a print. Digital is kind of a free for all 🤷🏻‍♂️ Will be working on digital neg video in the future! Thanks!

@myoung48281 3 жыл бұрын

You probably know this but you can create a digital negative from your scans and contact print them in the darkroom. I do screenprinting so I have a roll of inkjet film on my p800. I create a full size digi neg. then contact that to fiber base paper, it's awesome.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Yes I do this quite often. Amazing possibilities 👍👍👍

@culley03 3 жыл бұрын

Nice to see this. I just picked up a Sinar F2 (4x5) from a studio photographer who retired here in Madison. Been 20+ years since I've done LF photography. Anyhow, I have an Epson V850 as well. Also use Silverfast 8. Glad to see you mentioned Betterscanning and fluid mounting. I find the film holders (outside of the 35mm slide film holders) that came with the Epson are a PIA to use. Creased a few 120 negs with those and was trying to find an alternative. What were you doing to sharpen your negative? I have been turning off the sharpening in Silverfast and then doing it manually in Capture One. That was the only thing I didn't see you go over. I find scanning is definitely easier for cleaning negatives, but... the problem I have is defining "done" when working digitally. It's a bit overwhelming with all of the options and endless tweaks you can make. Working in the darkroom, I have an easier time calling it a day.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Great score! The Sinar cameras are so dialed in. I just went and shot some 4x5 for the first time in 8 months.... you need more time to shoot LF but it is special for sure. The Epson holder just seem a bit cheap for the quality of the scanner. It seems I read somewhere that the earlier models had better holders. I will still use them but feel the same as you about them. I have done both... no sharpen in Silverfast and left autosharpen on but have not extensively tested this. I have not used capture one but imagine it has better sharpening than Lightroom (which I do not like) I think how you are doing it would be the best route but may benefit from small amount in the scanning itself. Can not agree more as far as being “done” when it comes to digital. There is just so much it never ends. Finding a style and sticking to it can be difficult. Film and paper have their own character built in. That is why it is so fun! Stay warm friend!

@matneu27 2 жыл бұрын

As a non digital native guy scanning my 6x4.5 negatives meant in the beginning 2k years the end of an episode and the entry into full digital photography. Now I re descovered the analog photography and the darkroom printing and enjoy it. I am not sure if should enter the loop again by scanning my negatives. My opinion is that if I want it digital I shoot it digital.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 2 жыл бұрын

I tend to agree but have been enjoying scanning as a raw file. @david palermo mentioned it in the comments and it really has been a game changer. Will never replace my darkroom but it is growing on me :)

@jean-claudemuller3199 Жыл бұрын

When not going digital you lack the possibility of all the amazing different high end inkjet rag papers that don't exist for the darkroom. For me shooting film and digitalizing them is the best solution even if I was a 25 years long darkroom freak and miss it 😊

@davidpalermo4695 3 жыл бұрын

I find that scanning to a DNG (RAW) file in SilverFast works great. the scanner scans exactly what it sees (good or bad) on the neg. I then adjust in Lightroom and Photoshop.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! I will give this a try, thank you!

@davidpalermo4695 3 жыл бұрын

@@DistinctionPhotoLLC It will look like a negative so you will have to inverse it in Lightroom or Photoshop using the Tone tool. Once done the develop controls in Lightroom will be opposite of what you'd expect but just converting to a TIFF will fix that.

@naturelvr123 2 жыл бұрын

I did learn several things here. I did not know that the gradient tool could be used in just some spots in ACR. I always used the entire image w/the gradient tool but will try your method. Also, I don't have a scanner for the 4x5 negs so I pay someone to scan those for me.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 2 жыл бұрын

ACR is so powerful I often duplicate my portraits with layers and apply presets and other adjustments in P.S. this way. Allows you to mask areas, change opacity and tweak different blending methods... So powerful. Thanks for watching!

@igaluitchannel6644 3 жыл бұрын

Scanned negatives of different films look virtually identical. Only in the darkroom can you see the difference between various film stocks.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

I agree. sometimes you get more grain but overall they look pretty similar scanned compared to printing in the dark!

@sneakingelephant Жыл бұрын

I didn’t even know about contact printing till this video

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

It’s good to learn new things!

@ucevrim 3 жыл бұрын

Just discovered your channel. I'm glad you are here :) Do you mind telling what monitor you are using for editing?

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

For sure! It is a Ben Q. Here is the model adorama.rfvk.net/7mmeQd I love this monitor. It has really slick calibration switching built into it!

@DessieTots 3 жыл бұрын

I have access to a darkroom but this stopped for nearly a year now because of COVID restrictions. So I bought a used Imacon which is great as long as the negatives are not peppered with dust. I’ve got into the habit/workflow of; film-develop-scan-post process. It’s more convenient and allows for more fiddling with the image. However, darkroom prints look more life like with more depth, to my eyes at least.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Darkroom prints do tend to have a different look. like you said more depth. It is hard to explain but worth the effort IMO. Sorry to hear about the restrictions... hopefully things will be better soon! Jealous of the Imacon. bet you get amazing results with that. I love scanning film too and hope to get better at it in the future. just so many hours in a day :) Take care!

@nickfanzo Жыл бұрын

You can make a darkroom at home it’s very easy.

@elizastephens Жыл бұрын

please can you do a video about making the dark room masks digitally... i have just built my first dark room ...did my first print yesterday.. its bad!! but i love it.. your channel is just fantastic..interesting details and watching you work is fascinating. thanks

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Congrats on the darkroom! The dodge masks has been on my to do list for sometime…. But I honestly do not use them very often. Have had some health issues keeping me from my darkroom but have been getting back at it lately so hopefully soon. Don’t get discouraged… it’s like anything else. You have to make a lot of bad ones to get to the good ones. If you are not getting prints that you like there are probably half a dozen other things to do before looking at masking. If your negative contrast is right you should get a good starting print right away so start there👍. Thanks for the kind words it really means a lot.

@WimmerRon 3 жыл бұрын

Great Channel. I would love to see how you scan using your camera and a copy stand.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I plan on doing a direct comparison with the v850 vs copy stand for medium format and will go over exactly how I do it 👍

@nickfanzo Жыл бұрын

Both are valid. A lot of the greats use inkjet now and the dmax and archival qualities of inkjet paper is now up to par of darkroom printing. If someone has problems printing in the darkroom, the negative was probably not exposed properly for that film, development, enlarger combination. The issue with scanning is the flatbed just doesn’t do a good enough job keeping film flat. Especially in smaller formats

@jean-claudemuller3199 Жыл бұрын

Even the basic film holders delivered by Epson with the "V850 Pro" in all film formats have a glass plates for film flatness and height fine tuning. My former V750 Pro didn't have glass plates and I guess the non Pro V850 too. Best results are only obtained with the Epson "850 Pro" as the bundle has Silverfast SE, calibration targets, glass film holders, missing in the non Pro version.

@nickfanzo Жыл бұрын

@@jean-claudemuller3199 the holders that come with peon don’t keep film perfectly flat. It may look like it’s flat but it isn’t, especially if you try 120mm film

@jean-claudemuller3199 Жыл бұрын

@@nickfanzoI don't understand what you mean, the Epson scanner Pro model holders with AN glass work like my DURST enlarger negative carrier with AN glass, the difference is that the scanner has perfect cold light that doesn't let the film curl as an enlarger hot halogen lamp.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

I agree that they both are valid for sure, but with the Epson holders that I have I can definitely see curvature of the film in 120 film.

@nickfanzo Жыл бұрын

@@DistinctionPhotoLLC yes flatness with those is an issue that should be fixed

@joseerazevedo 2 жыл бұрын

Please share with us your techniques for this "digital mask" I found it very interesting. Thanks!

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 2 жыл бұрын

Will do soon

@jean-claudemuller3199 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this usefull video. What kind of file come out of your silverfast ? dng or TIFF ? Why not going directly with a 16 bit TIFF into Photoshop ? Did you try the two workflows ?

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Your welcome!

@ValikoSuliko 3 жыл бұрын

very interesting video and a very nice picture! I prefer to take photos in large format and I love to print in the darkroom and because both are very time-consuming I have a much closer relationship with the finished product, how is it for you, is there a difference for you?

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

For my own personal work I do much prefer printing in the darkroom to scanning. Same reason as you, it is just such a labor of love. Also, I am in front of my computer SO much for client work that it can be difficult to create anything for myself digitally. 95% of the time when I shoot for myself it is film that I intend to work on in the darkroom. My darkroom changes things up for me and I feel it makes me a better overall photographer too!

@ValikoSuliko 3 жыл бұрын

@@DistinctionPhotoLLC Thanks for the answer! I have nothing against digital technology. I also use it by scanning the negatives and simply editing them to see what the print might look like. I am also not interested in the digital vs analog topics, everyone can decide for themselves what they want to use, the main thing is that you have fun with it and that it takes you further or, to put it in your own words, makes you a better photographer.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

@@ValikoSuliko I could not agree more!

@ValikoSuliko 3 жыл бұрын

@@DistinctionPhotoLLC peace and stay healthy!

@chrisdelk134 26 күн бұрын

Hello Matthew, I hope you are having a good weekend. I have been following your KZfaq for a while now and you have inspired me to get back to darkroom printing. I shoot both digital and film but my love for the film medium is strong. I develop all of my B&W film negatives at home and digitally scan them. I am at the point now where I would like to start printing, I have done some research but am still kind of lost in the direction I would like to go for setting up my home Darian. I would love to chat with someone who knows what they are doing and get advice on the craft. Is this something that you would be interested in?

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 26 күн бұрын

Yes, I would love to help you out. Shoot me a DM over on Instagram @distphoto

@nwrob1 Жыл бұрын

"Oh my goodness, did I get aome dust in there." Know the feeling 😆

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Just a constant battle 😂

@leewardiv 2 жыл бұрын

can you tell me the film you used to capture that photo and what shutter speed. Also did you use a lens filter?

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, for sure. It was a while back but I know it was Tmax 100 developed in pyrocat HD. Theis wa slate in the day and the sun was setting and I remember the reciprocity starting to be an issue. The shutter speeds got quite long. 15 sec or so. I had a yellow filter on . Hope that helps!

@surreallife777 Жыл бұрын

I really like the idea of this video, but at the end, I was s surprised and disappointed that there was no discussion about sharpness or grain or pixelation, comparing the two prints. Maybe you can do that in another video? Using the same prints maybe using a magnifying glass.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC Жыл бұрын

Appreciate the feedback. will see what I can do. I feel it would be difficult to do a straight comparison as there are so many variables. But I guess I could just do my best on both and make a more detailed comparison.

@milesmetcalfe94 3 жыл бұрын

Great video but, there is a kinda quiet clicking that’s either from a broken mic cable or the background music thats super distracting. Kinda sounds like I have a blown speaker or something like that.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

Hm I can not hear it but will take another listen. Thanks!

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

I hear that now. think there might have been interference on the mic channel I was using... or maybe the mic cable... my bad

@neilpiper9889 2 жыл бұрын

Analogue photography is so simple. Shoot, dev print. Put on the wall. I know a darkroom print a mile off.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 2 жыл бұрын

It can be that simple.... or a whole lot more complex! Thanks for watching!

@igaluitchannel6644 3 жыл бұрын

You have to scan darkroom prints using colours in levels and not convert to black and white.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 3 жыл бұрын

I will give that a shot. I prob have to test again. I thought I was getting better results in Silverfast with the 16 bit black and white. But some of my prints get color from toners and that is the hardest to reproduce so it makes sense to use color scan... Thanks!

@igaluitchannel6644 3 жыл бұрын

@@DistinctionPhotoLLC Sometimes it just takes the slightest hint of yellow and/or green to make them resemble the darkroom prints, but you got fool around with the sliders to find the right combo. Looks better than that sterile purple look that a b&w converted image looks like.

@Hector_Malot 7 ай бұрын

What is true for 4x5 will not be true for 35mm. It is easier and more interesting to scan a 4x5 negative than to print it in a darkroom; it requires a heavy, bulky and expensive system whereas a simple flatbed scanner will be sufficient. conversely, 35mm will always give better results in the darkroom, or it will give its best potential.

@DistinctionPhotoLLC 4 ай бұрын

Good points. Thanks!