*Boots up Xplane 11*

Unless you owned loads of land, then you could do this at home

You mean you never seen a house fly?

Have you not learned anything from up

that's why he is saying to not try it at home... doh

I can learn from his experience (and not risk a glider or the ire of my CFI) so I'm grateful.

there is like no way to lose 600' in ONE turn. you would have to encounter more than 10 m/s downdraft...

True, but he is right, that it should be avoided.

@@NodaxWoW thank you for the Comment, i was also thinking the same +2

Danke für den konstruktiven Beitrag! :)

gliding_aviation o

It's because he made the decision to outland to late. He had perfectly landable fields in every direction, wich should have made it an easy decision to land but instead he tried to thermal really low to the ground. This makes it difficult to focus on landing, because by the time you stop thermalling your basically already on short final and you should still do the checklist.(you can see he extends his gear basically at the last second) Besides having more time is never a bad thing.

@@adhdrenalin4392 Yes, that was the only dangerous issue. One time I began to expect him to land on the golf course, although the area ´was littered with good landing spots. I liked the way he used the ground effect to get near to a road. The landing part was absolutely safe.

Exactly. And he was in a relatively hi-performance glider, not a 222 or 233 trainer.

I've never flown sail planes/gliders. I have jumped out of them though! As an experienced skydiver I have to say I've had some pretty scary outlandings once in a while. From 500 to 300ft coming in (final landing approach) the ground can look nice and grassy but on final flare sometimes the soil is pretty rough there can be hidden objects not noticed from higher up. My canopy flares flat at about 30-40kms depending on the winds coming across an uneven surface like that can cause injuries. I don't know if this 'unknown surface' problem is the reason for the poster to call it 'scary'?

The field and position where I landed was my preferred one. But at minute 0:35 I should have landed directly. Thank you!

Changing hands (several times) to extend the landing gear at flare altitude IS dangerous flying.

@@tinchote opposite is true: You have to change hands when you extend the landing gear. The bad accidents happen when people leave the stick allone while extending the landing gear with the right hand and the glider is not trimmed correctly.

@@LSVFlachkurbler Well, if you think it is safe to extend the landing gear at 5 metres above the ground while close to the flare, and on top of that changing hands on the stick, we clearly have nothing to talk about safety.

You Europeans and speed brakes you kill me. They are called spoilers because they are on the center of the wing. There is very little speed involved with their application.

"There is very little speed involved with their application" That may be one of the most uneducated comment i've seen in a long time...

Actually he is right. The spoilers are not there to alter the speed. Remkleppen is what i call them in my native language. Bet 1000 dollars my English is better than his Dutch 😂 Murricans

No, he is definitely not right. Spoilers are used to remove a significant amount of lift BUT they also increase the drag significantly, therefor altering the speed, also, alot of gliders don't use pivoted/angled spoilers, many have only vertical air brakes (both ontop and below the wing) which sure, they also remove the lift but they are mainly for altering the speed, especially when diving to not overspeed, those kinds of spoilers/air brakes/speedbrakes IS used to control the airspeed of the glider. To say that spoilers is not used to control the speed at all of a glider is 100% wrong.

Anna- NO BETS! Posted below is a conversation I had with a fellow Dutchman. I am just making a subtle point. Maybe it's my frustration not able to 'soar' anymore. 'Peace love and all that to you'. PS- If you know Eneri say Hi for me. PSS- I promise to stop -but I will pop Jesper u2mister1 3 weeks ago What the hell are airbrakes. They are spoilers. They spoil the lift of the wing.? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 1 week ago Different things. Many gliders - especially older ones have what are called 'airbrakes'.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago Eneri Giilaan- Nice try, THEY are called SPOILERS. I learned to fly in the 80's. Their only job is to spoil Lift/Drag. No one should call them 'Air brakes'. Now some gliders have 'Dive Brakes' which are 'speed limiting' but very few.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago There was a glass glider built back then that had a drag shoot the pilot deployed in the landing pattern, probably on final glide, that didn't effect the wing. I guess you could call that an 'air brake'.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago The commercial airlines have spoilers on their wings. They spoil lift so the pilot can raise the angle of attack to slow the plane. Now like the F-14 has 'Air Brake' behind the canopy but again that is not a part of the wing.? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 1 week ago I got my glider pilot license in the 70's - so in case you consider that important I would 'win' by default? In any case - the planes I flew back then (K-8, Ka-6(CR), ASK-13, ...) all had Schempp-Hirth-type *airbrakes*. And as I said- that was more or less the norm for these older gliders. The Olympia here is even older design (late 1930's) and you are free to guess whether it utilized 'spoilers' or 'airbrakes' (the answer is 'airbrakes'). Here is a link to some educational material by the British Gliding Association discussing the difference: members.gliding.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/08/2-11-AIRBRAKES-_-SPOILERS-2017.pdf You can now consider yourself educated. And one additional note: please tune down your tone a bit in the future.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago Their job is to spoil lift, .... For example, the glide ratio of a K13 at 55kt, airbrakes closed, is about 25:1. If the same airspeed is maintained, full airbrake reduces this to approximately 6:1. You can call them 'flight wreckers' or 'wing panel thingies' or 'ballistic busters' but because they are on the center of the wing, most efficient part for generating lift, they should be called what they are there for, spoiling lift/drag. If they have a secondary, by product, of inducing drag...well that's the 'brakes'.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago Oh, I hope the British Glider assoc. isn't offended.? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 1 week ago Hmmmm ... did you read any further (emphasis added): "The small loss of lift airbrakes cause when deployed..." It is not entirely clear whether your learning to fly involved powered planes or gliders? When operating gliders - the distinction between 'airbrakes' and 'spoilers' is important and thus we need - and have - established terminology to tell them apart. For example - when applying 'airbrakes' you really have to push the nose down to maintain IAS - not so with 'spoilers'.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago I learned in gliders. Yes I've taken high time power pilots up, they operate the glider like it's a dump truck. They have no idea about adverse yaw or pitch control until they get some actual "Flight time". But the word 'airbrake' would never be a topic.? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 1 week ago Ok. More or less confirms what I have been told by other glider pilots with similar passengers - and actually from some of those power pilots themselves ;) Seems that perhaps the terminology is not that well established globally? I perhaps should add that my background is Finnish and the local terminology[$] - I choose to refer to the BGA material because I thought providing a link to a Finnish material could have been a bit counter productive? [$] As a straight translation we speak about 'flight brakes' and 'spoilers' - but AFAIK the former are always translated as 'airbrakes'.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 week ago We're cool, I just don't understand why the push to change wording on, it seems like, everything in today's world. Have a great, night?? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 1 week ago Ok. And I understand. Have a nice day too.? B Kailua B Kailua 1 week ago @2umister1 this is clearly a flight in the UK. They have different terms for aviation items than we do in the USA. The term Airbrakes and Spoilers can be used and understood by people in the International Soaring community to be the same. FYI Boeing calls the spoilers on a 757 and 767 a Speed Brake in the Cockpit but calls the same device flight spoilers or ground spoilers in the operating manual.? u2mister1 u2mister1 4 hours ago B Kailua- Powered aircraft need all the help man can conjure up. Man made thrust needs man made brakes. Gliders only need to counter natural 'lift' with 'spoilers' to maintain the health of the pilot.? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 2 hours ago My take from personal training and for example the training material of the British Gliding Association I linked in my second message above is still this: 1) The terminology seems to indeed differ at least between US and Europe 2) In Europe: if the 'thingies' mainly destroy lift but have smaller effect on drag - they are called 'spoilers'. 3) In Europe: if the 'thingies' mainly increase drag with smaller effect on lift - they are called 'airbrakes'. 4) When applying 'spoilers' the glide ratio decreases but IAS (indicated air speed) is not affected and thus the pilot doesn't have to touch the stick to change the attitude. 5) When applying 'airbrakes' the glide ratio is not affected primarily - but in order to hold the same IAS (and avoid stalling) the pilot must push the stick forward for more nose down attitude - and the end result is a reduced glide ratio as in case (4) above. 6) My personal opinion is that because of the differences of how to handle the plane in the situations (4) and (5) it is quite understandable to have two separate terms for the devices. 7) I also understand that it is not always that clear whether the main effect of sticking some blades out of your wing surfaces is the increase of drag or the reduce of lift. So there is also a rationale for using only one common term 'spoilers'.? u2mister1 u2mister1 1 hour ago Eneri- You say... 5) When applying 'airbrakes' the glide ratio is not affected primarily ... but your source, which I stated earlier,... For example, the glide ratio of a K13 at 55kt, airbrakes closed, is about 25:1. If the same airspeed is maintained, full airbrake reduces this to approximately 6:1... Seems to be the 'The Rub'. Clearly their description of 25/1 reduced to 6/1 is NOT????? affected primarily????? Eneri Giilaan Eneri Giilaan 1 hour ago Yes - not primarily - notice "if the same airspeed is maintained*". In order to *maintain the same airspeed you must push the nose down. Now - in this new attitude (with 55 kt IAS) the glide ratio is 6/1. In this sense the reduction of the glide ratio is secondary - it is due to having a new 'nose down' attitude. You could also consider this - when maintaining this new attitude close the airbrakes - the glide ratio remains 6/1 but the IAS increases (a lot). I really don't understand what is so hard to understand here. But I try once more: 1) Spoilers - open spoilers and don't touch the stick: the planes attitude does not change, the IAS does not change, the glide ratio reduces (due to reduced lift). 2) Airbrakes - open airbrakes and push the stick forward: new (nose down) attitude with the IAS same as before, the glide ratio reduces (due to new attitude). The difference is that with the airbrakes you have to touch the stick - with spoilers you don't. Do you disagree with (1) and (2) above? I have never flown a more 'modern' glider with 'spoilers' (as implicitly defined above) - so I might be wrong with (1). But I'm pretty sure that one had to be prepared to compensate with the stick when one did open the airbrakes of K8.? u2mister1 u2mister1 44 minutes ago I do not understand this 'SLIGHT' change in flight attitude needing a 'SLIGHT' push on the stick to compensate for a 'SLIGHT' change of airspeed having to do with a .0001% change. We all know rule #1 is maintain airspeed. "You could also consider this - when maintaining this new attitude close the airbrakes - the glide ratio remains 6/1 but the IAS increases (a lot)".-------What? You just closed the spoilers and ballooned into a new L/D. Closing the 'airbrakes' are the 'Thingies' we are talking about. The L/D would return to standard flight norms.? u2mister1 u2mister1 8 minutes ago Eneri- Oh I get it.. "Yes - not primarily - notice "if the same airspeed is maintained*". In order to *maintain the same airspeed you must push the nose down. Now - in this new attitude (with 55 kt IAS) the glide ratio is 6/1. In this sense the reduction of the glide ratio is secondary - it is due to having a new 'nose down' attitude." You are conflating LIFT/DRAG with GLIDE SLOPE. One is airframe and one is pilot planning.?

Are you a pilot? Didn't think so

It's educational for less experienced glider pilots, like me. There's more to the landing than the touchdown - the circuit beforehand for example. He lowered the landing gear very close to the ground, which requires holding the stick with the left hand and, as you see, a big change of trim - it makes me nervous and slightly horrified to see actually. I get the (probably not accurate) impression of a pilot confident that there's nothing but huge empty flat fields all around, so no need to take an outlanding seriously or follow the practiced procedure. Stefan is a very experienced pilot and he got away with it - if I made the same decisions here there's an excellent chance I'd be scattering wings and limbs across a field!

tl;dr: landing a glider in a field should _not_ be a scary time, and if it is, you've made mistakes much earlier than touchdown!

Haha, I have never noticed the rabbit in this video. :D

Ja, da gebe ich dir in beiden Punkten Recht.

As a glider pilot, it was terrifying.

Ja, die Landung an sich war ziemlich smooth, auch wenn ich aufgrund der Bodenwellen ein paar mal aufgesetzt bin. Der Seitenwind hatte keine Probleme gemacht... und das Fahrwerk fahre ich im Normalfall an der Position aus. Hier aber erst ziemlich spät, um den Luftwiderstand möglichst lange gering zu halten. Das Ziel war es oben auf dem Acker zu landen, um auf dem Feldweg den Flieger abbauen zu können. Sonst hätte ich auch überall anders landen können (was nicht so krampfhaft ausgesehen hätte).

The "scary" part probably was trying to catch that "Last minute lift" way too low. An adequate choice of landing field and final approach should've been done much earlier (higher) than shown here. On the other hand he was quite aware of all the choices he had and maybe he decided to try it nonetheless.

@@ChrisA7X89 I think it cannot be seen if the pilot did have exactly this landing field in mind. If you have chosen your landing field and there is an opportunity to get a "last lift" most pilot would try that instead of ignoring and simply land. I sometime also did this by myself: I choose a landing field in case I get below 500m and then I try to stay near to this field searching for thermal lifts. If I am lucky and find something - it is nice. But as long as I stay really close to my "new" landing location I can try finding a thermal lift until 100m over ground - especially in such a wide open area like here in this video.

Flying is easy, when it comes out all right...

That's a terrible saying. "I survived, so everything is fine". Not at all. Such mentality is a great recipe to end up in disaster.

Kein Problem, der Bauer pfluegt die Reste unter.

Lieber Malte, es sind leider eine ganze Reihe von Fehlern und das alles nochmal gut gegangen ist sollte nicht darüber hinweg täuschen das 1. Die Entscheidung zur Aussenlandung zu spät/zu tief getroffen wurde bzw. immer noch probiert wurde ein Steigen zu finden obwohl mit jeder Sekunde sichtbar die Optionen für eine sichere Landung weniger werden. Die Entscheidung sollte bei 300-500m AGL getroffen werden und die einmal getroffene Entscheidung ist beizubehalten. 2. In ein Aussenlandefeld sollte nicht im Geradeausflug einfach blindlings reingelanget werden sondern wenigstens aus einem Gegenanflug heraus auf Hindernisse, Zäune, Gräben, Ackerfurchen abgesucht werden sowie die Windrichtung festgestellt werden. Dann ein ordentlicher Anflug mit Queranflug und stabilem Endanflug sowie dem Flugzeug bereits in Landekonfiguration (Fahrwerk ausgefahren und verriegelt). Für das alles braucht es ca. 150m AGL, nicht mehr, aber die braucht es einfach. Die Physik und Safety Rules gelten auch und erst recht bei Wettbewerben. Schlussends wurde offensichtlich der Seitenwind von rechts massiv unterschätzt bzw. ausser Acht gelassen und gar nicht kompensiert. Das führt dann dazu, dass man dem Fahrwerk, dem Flugzeug und dem Piloten jede Ackerfurche spüren lässt statt entlang einer Furche am Feldrand zu landen um nicht zuletzt auch den Flurschaden gering zu halten. Der Pilot sollte dieses Video dringend mit einem FI debriefen und das Thema Aussenlandung noch einmal gründlich studieren und am Doppelsteuer trainieren.

This was probably not *too* unsafe due to the circumstances (landable fields EVERYWHERE), nice weather and presumably predictable wind directions, but making an outlanding with this low altitude margin is actually very dangerous. If you get a strong gust of tailwind during a turn, or miscalculate your speed due to the unfamiliar visual references at low altitude, you'll stall, and probably with one wing first since you're in a turn. That has a high likelihood of becoming a deadly crash. You'd rather fly a normal circuit with a single 90-degree turn before landing at a pre-planned location (maybe selected a few minutes before). Golf courses are not ideal due to uneven terrain, but the fields in the video are excellent landing spots.

Ja stimmt, waren schon so 25 km/h Wind von rechts.

Danke! Ich war eigentlich schon zu tief, um da oben auf dem Acker zu landen und wollte möglichst lange den Luftwiderstand vom Fahrwerk vermeiden. Im Prinzip hätte man da auf dem Acker auch weiter unten landen können, allerdings wäre da der Abtransport schwieriger gewesen. War alles nicht so perfekt... den letzten Suchkreis hätte ich nicht mehr machen sollen und alles wäre entspannter gewesen.

Kenne das ja selber bin zwar noch Schüler aber dann kurbelt man doch noch mit 180m ein anstatt zu Position zu fliegen

und nur aus Interesse kennst du ein Ulrich Schulze er ist trainer im D-Kader und bei uns im verein

Not very hard at all. A couple of guys make it easy. First remove the wings, and then roll the fuselage to the nearest road an into the trailer and in with the wings.

Das erhöhte gewicht verbessert die schnellflugeigenschaftenm

electronic vertical speed indicator (e-vario). It tells if you're climbing or descending and how fast. It's not that annoying in the plane, you get used to it quickly.

Nimm dir das aber bitte nicht als Vorbild...

Da muss ich Florian zu 100% Recht geben. Bitte nicht als Vorbild für eine Außenlandung nehmen!! Bei einer Außenlandung gehört es sich auch eine Platzrunde zu fliegen, so wie am Flugplatz.

Ja wir werden das noch alles vernünftig lernen

It's the sound made by an instrument called a variometer. It indicates to the pilot, with visual and audio signals, changes in vertical speed. It helps the pilot find thermals to soar in and exploit them to gain altitude. You can see it in operation in the lower left of the instrument panel, it is the large round instrument with -5 to 0 to +5 on the dial. You'll hear the audio tone change as the needle moves around. The higher the pitch, the more vertical speed, this allows the pilot to know what's going on without having to watch that dial at all times!

Great explanation. Thank you!

Great landing. Love watching your soaring videos. Can't wait to finish my license!

In dem Gelände war die Neigung mehr entscheident als eine Gegenwindlandung. Im Video kommt die Bodenkontur relativ schlecht rüber...

Alter du fliegst nicht oder ?

Tom Kelsall Below 500 AGL there are sure lifts and it is possible to climb there! Everybody has his own attitude to risk, but this outlanding was ok in my opinion. I had not too much room for mistakes, that's true! Landing without landing gear is not nice to the glider, but doesn't hurt me and there were all fields good for outlanding

500m or about 1,650'? That's quite high and - during training and early solo - probably entirely reasonable. Yes, I did make some criticisms myself (as well as owning up to my own indiscretion), but there is a difference in acquired skills between low time pilots and those with a bit more flying under their belt - the trick is the balance, as it's often the higher time pilots who push their luck during competitions and come unstuck.

...and where's the balance in this video? He's made just about every mistake I was ever taught about in circuits and a few more besides. He had not firmly selected a field until he collided with one.

@@stonelaughter There is no such rules about that Tom :)! And how do you even winch laucnh if you cant thermal below 500m? You're wrong man. There are rules by EASA that says: 500 feet AGL when you're over non-populated areas and 900ft above highest building over populated areas. Stefan is below those 500 feet when he makes the decision, bu so what. i don't know if you have seen how pople fly in the competitions? But if you can't handle this, defently don't take a look at that, becuase they search for thermal intil they stand on the ground xD. Now here is an ideal rule of thumb. At 1200ft AGL you find your field, but continue to search for lift. at 800ft you head back to the field, and at 500 ft you stop thermaling and start you approach. Now, another thing you don't take into consideration, is the corcumstances in this video. Stefan is thermaling above such perfect fiels, which give him more space to operate at lower levels than useal. Tom i don't know how experinced you are, but stopping all seach for lift at 1500ft is just nonsence... Have a great christmas and blue sky to all :)

@@flymexx320 Clearly I was talking about cross country flying, not local to your airfield. And I'm telling you what I was trained, not about any rules; so I'm not "wrong". I'm merely relaying the information I was given.

In this competition I had two team members on the same frequency. When I got low, the others couldn´t help me and the communication between both other team members distracted me. So I turn it off.

@@SteFly Ah okay that makes total sense

Haha, I don´t need instruction flights :D

@@SteFly It looks like you do :-)