Awesome. I’m considering this, but I already have the new modius. Wondering if the upgrade to Bifrost would be noticeable enough. Love my current setup but this multibit technology with all the positive reviews of the Bifrost makes me want to get it : )

Weeks??? I've spent years😂

@@1jhnpennington In point of fact soon after making this comment, In my mind the choice came down to the 2/64 that I still suspect would have been perfect and the RME ADI 2 that I chose not because I thought its sound would be better but because with its extraordinary amount of settable parameters I could fide the perfect settings for my room and me. Independent speaker EQ for example helps me correct for my sub ideal speakers/listener positioning. (Note my latest sound improvement surprisingly ,was to simply turn my speakers upside down. previously it had always sounded a bit above my head when seated, also now, the sound reaches farther out to me). Although I am not quite there yet, I am looking forward to trying the Pre Amp for playing with single ended Tube Amps. It has a preamp section they claim is one of their forte's.

Give the Geshelli J2 a look. I'm torn between the J2 and the BF2 upgrade.

Maybe get an EQ, like JDS Labs Subjective preamp. In my home system I’m adding Fosi P1 tube preamp, any of those two will do the job. The Fosi has a 2 band EQ, the JDS Labs is a 3 band EQ. Schiit Audio also makes separate EQs and you can also get a used one on eBay, or maybe a refurbished one.

I have my new Bifrost 2/64 for 8 days now. So it has plenty of burn in time. I can assure you that discomfort you heard is not because it’s more neutral. It sounds bad because it is. Yes. The new Bifrost has more details, air, bass and treble extension but it completely messes up the overall tonal balance of mid band. Vocals sound strained and dry, all acoustic instruments sound like they have no body. So everything sound thin, add the annoying plosives ( so called extended treble and air) to the mix, you get audio that causes fatigue. Schiit needs to fix this with a new firmware. Trust your ear, if the DAC can’t reproduce simple vocals and acoustic instruments recording convincingly, its poor mid band will spoil all recordings regardless of whether it has extended bass and treble or not. The so called extended air will just make the poor mid band sound diffuse, thin and harsh.

At day 26, my Bifrost 2/64 finally sounds right! Lesson learnt, this thing if bought brand new requires a long burn in period. All my negative criticism no longer applied. This DAC sounds amazing and works very well with my NAD C372 amp and Harbeth Speakers. The following two tracks help me identify the initial issues. For vocal test, Lullabye (Good night, My Angel) - The Idea of North. For Acoustic instrument test, Estate - Enzo Orefice Trio . After these two tracks sound organic and non-fatique, then it's time to play other more aggressive and complex music. Enjoy!!!

What make and model of linear power supply are you using with the Geshelli Labs J2 AKM DAC?

@@williammanggrum4729 I have several, but for powering a J2 by itself, I would use a BRZHiFi 25W 12V with the Talema transformer. I can't post a link. It is about $70 shipped from China. Or, if $51 is better for you, the Bingzi 25W 12V is also fine.

@@NeilBlanchard do you buy upgraded power supplies for all your audio equipment, or just those that need it? This is the first I've heard of upgrading power supplies other than cheap amps.

@@AbideinChristFully I am finding that when something has an external power supply, that is probably included because it meets a budget requirement - that getting a better power supply will almost always improve the sound. Well designed components, that have internal power supplies, probably have better quality already. If you look at what are considered better DACs, etc one of the areas that they all have is higher quality power supplies. Quality matters, and power supplies matter - we are listening to modulated power supplies, essentially.

Your post may have saved me big $. Ive been considering Ayres ll or Bifrost 2. I have the J2 bypassing Bluesound Node 2i dac with Bluejean spdif coax cable. Would like to get a warmer sound closer to my vinyl. Would you say your ps upgrade could help that? What % improvement did your ps upgrade make? Thanks!

I have an original Bifrost 2 and I bought the 2/64 upgrade. I found the 2/64 in its default (oversampling) mode, to be too bright on some recordings. And I strongly prefer it in NOS mode - it has plenty of detail, but without the overemphasis of the lower treble region. NOS mode simply sounds more "natural" and balanced.

@@NeilBlanchard Thanks for sharing your opinion on the Bifrost

You have the same things that I have. The BF2 is connected to Soloist 3x and Hifiman Arya stealth or focal Elex. I also use 800s too. They are all good, but I don't think they are the end game for me yet.

@@munsukwon8393 Not my end game either.

I'm in the same boat. I was considering and upgrade just prior to the upgrade announcement.

Get the OG Bifrost

I love my Bifrost 2. I think it comes down to more warmth and musicality which can be a more fun listening experience or a more detailed and analytical listening experience. But, but, but your paired amp will make a big difference.

I thought that you can activate NOS mode regardless of which card is installed, as long as you have updated the firmware via the microSD card? If so, I would swap the original card back in....... the new firmware supports both old and new cards...... and see if the Roon oversampling in NOS remains the same. If so, return the 2/64 card and save the money.

@@edzak7257 In fact, after a few days of use I'm really liking this sound even with schiit's OS. There is a lot of energy from the subbass, midbass and upper midrange and some changes need to be made to the system in order to compensate for this. I've turned down the volume on the amp and subwoofer, widen the space between the speakers and after that I found this card to recreate the venues in an exemplary way and I think it's definitely a peek into the sound of high end Dacs for a paltry price.

@@MrKarlengel Not sure I'm following correctly. When you say "OS" are you referring to the Original BF2 analog card? The only way to get the NOS mode is with the firmware update.

@@edzak7257 No, I mean oversampling inside the dac. At first I didn’t like it but now I’m really digging it.

I haven't done a direct BF2/64-Hugo 2 comparison yet. It didn't really make sense to me. But you're now at least the 2nd person to answer that question so I'll give it some thought. However, a friend is auditioning my H2 right now so it will be a bit before I can get to it.

@@wavetheorysound Thank you for the consideration. Chord dac is known for their 3D sound signature especially depth. I have heard Mojo v1. and find the SS depth is quite impressive. So I wonder if more expensive model performs even better.

Thanks for the kind words and support. IMO the 2/64 maintains the fun physicality of the OG. I have not noticed much change after leaving it on for weeks - I never turn it off as well - unless I'm going to be traveling for several days.

Reading stupid shit like this makes me happy the internet exists. :)

Hard to say. I think it's too early to say that Schiit's ethos is shifting. Tight supply chains and the general increase of cost of being a human who is alive is probably affecting them same as everyone else.

@@wavetheorysound true I do worry about the increasing costs of Materials and shipping what will do to our hobby specifically companies selling at the lower end of pricing. There may be a squeeze on some of these companies.

I don't know enough about this email situation to meaningfully comment. This comment is first I heard of it. If you like Soundstage, tho, hard to imagine the BF2 /64 disappointing.

It might sound a tad clearer psychoacoustically. EQ is not going to add in resolution that isn't already there.

Would love to. Got a Yggy lying around you can loan? haha. But seriously, someone loan me an Yggy...

"Too bright?" is a question I can't really answer since I don't know your preferences or tolerances. But, with the 2/64 and either of those amps my educated guess is the treble will be well controlled and sound wonderful.

Lots are asking the BF2 VS Mojo 2 question. I haven't heard Mojo 2 yet. I'll have to try to get one in here.

If you're installing the upgrade card yourself you'll have to update firmware as it won't work on the OG BF2's firmware. The firmware you download from Schiit's website is the latest version. If you bought the 2/64 as a whole unit brand new it's probably good to go. But to be sure you can still download the latest version from Schiit and flash it to be sure.

$699

I’d give the XDuoo MT-604 a rec if it’s still ~$170~ and you have balanced outs from your dac. I haven’t heard the 601 or 602 myself but I heard the sound signature is largely similar between the MT-602 and MT-604 and with the 02 it offers only RCA ins so you can run single ended if that’s your preference and it’s also be closer to $100 for just the 602. Best wishes with whatever direction you go!

@@davidcoons89 thanks man! I also see that’s an option. I think I can probably try them since they are pretty easy to get on Amazon. But they are hybrid if I’m not wrong. Just more lean over to Schiit product line now haha. I also have a Vidar to power my loud speakers, so they are only running in SE mode. That’s why I was considering Valhalla 2. But not sure what are the experience people have with Valhalla 2. I guess the build and look is very solid and American made. The style fits schiit products family. But some people say it’s running way to hot than other otl amp lol. Haha on the edge of a decision here.

@@looper6120 curious, did you end up getting it? I currently have the modius and magni 3+ and I am in your boat of loving this schiit brand. I recently got my setup sounding amazing with my hd600. It’s hard to imagine I’m missing anything because the mix of instruments and clarity is so enjoyable it blows me away. But I’m curious if the upgrade to bifrost would be noticeable enough and same thing with Valhalla 2 which I’ve been considering for awhile too!

@@Ray-dl5mp hey, yea I did purchase Vallhalla2 as well. So my stack now is Bifrost 2, Valhalla 2, and Jotuhheim 2 for headphones. And I'm using HD600 and Hifiman HE6SE (someone says its v shape, but i like it), Before bifrost I was using internal dac card from Jotunheim 2 (not multibit one), so its pretty much the same as modi I think? Upgrade to Bifrost 2 IMO the sonic difference is pretty obvious. There is definitely more details, and less harshness in the high. For mid like vocal, I'd say it's not drastically different? But Bass is tighter and more hefty. I personally think it's worth the upgrade since it's also a good piece of gear for you to scale in pretty much any mid to high end system. I personally think this stack is pretty high end for normal music lover or "non super hard core audiophile". And I'm pretty happy with the result. As for vahalla 2, i specifically use it for hd600, it shines with hd600. I can hear the most obvious difference between vallhalla and Jot is sound stage. Tube amp makes a bigger and deeper sound stage to my ears. And It brings more joy than fatigue after longer listening session. I'd still describe the sound as nertual not warm or bright. The noise floor is insanely low on vallhalla 2, so it's nothing like a "traditional" tube amp which adds a lot of color to the sound. Just be aware of that if you are looking for the colored sound. And Valhalla as preamp, I don't think Valhalla 2 will bring you the traditional "tube" joy, I'd go for faya + if you wanna that tubey sound. But it's a bit more expensive, i cannot judge the price for it yet. I'm still very happy with my saga+. And the input tube can be rolled on Vallhalla 2, but the output tubes can't. So rolling tube can make some difference but not significant I think. I don't have many tubes on hand, so i didn't go into that rabbit hole too much. I think all in all, upgrading to Bifrost 2 gave me more surprise than upgrading Valhalla 2, but if you like them both. I'd still think they are worth the money. I guess one downside is Valhalla 2 runs extremely hot, I put bifrost in the bottom, Jot in the mid, Valhalla on the top, but I added tall rubber feet in between, and put an active fan on the side. Otherwise the heat is concerning. And it almost reach to a level to barely touch it. I guess also keep in mind if the space is limited, then heat issue can bother you i think. Hope it helps!

@@looper6120 thanks for taking the time to comment on all your thoughts! Super helpful. Sounds like you found something great which is awesome.

Thanks. I haven't heard D1SE but I reviewed D90SE and thought overall the OG BF2 was superior. By the transitive property of 2/64 is better than OG BF2...

Thanks. I've not heard a Yggy yet. Every opportunity has slipped through my fingers so far.

@@wavetheorysound oh man I’ve had the GS version when it was $1500 and that was a fantastic pairing with warmer headphones. Hard hitting bass with lots of details. I believe the A2 is more of that warmer sound with better soundstage and more micro detail as well.

OG BF2 was pretty solid with the V226. I imagine the new version would pair even better.

Probably a bit overkill for AAC. However, the story changes if you stream apple lossless.

Not yet. Hopefully soon.

I haven't gotten a Mojo 2 to play with yet. I would like to.

@@wavetheorysound Thanks for the reply! I got the Mojo 2 and I love it so far. It is the first Chord product that I own.

I've been promised an A90D. I don't know exactly when it will arrive...but likely within the next month.

This would be interesting as WaveTheory was one of the few reviewers who didn't like the A90.

Are you asking if the digital filter for the OG BF2 works with the /64 version? No. The new filter is part of the new firmware required to make the unit function to begin with. And yes, BF2/64 + Asgard 3 will sound mighty fine. The A3 will be the weak link but the stack will still perform well.

@@wavetheorysound Yes. I see thanks for the info. Amazing review as always!

Which headphones did you use 2/64 and Soloist 3XP combo with?

@@phanindramvr2215 lcd-x revised which was obviously the thicker sounding and the kennerton magni with dekoni elites (hifiman angled) not as noticeable but felt the pairing just not great great but it's still cool to have that flavor around. I'm not a 'neutral or nothing' kinda guy...I like a well balanced sound but with punchy tight bass...it was noticeably loose but on a neutral Amp the bifrost 2/64 can't be beat at that price point it tunes the sound (w/ my hp's) into what I enjoy...well balanced thicker sound.

@@guatobean2869 Just received mine today. I have a similar set up compared to yours. Bifrost 2 64 (soon to be installed), Soloist 3XP Vivid plus Meze Elite, HD800s and DCA Aeon 2 Noire. I don't get what you mean by "too much of a good thing". Does it mean the 64 card will strip more warmth and add more details/technical?

@@MeowyBrigade it won't necessarily strip warmth. It does resolve detail very well but I should have clarified, with my LCD-X it can sound less open while my kennerton it didnt effect the openess because of its sound profile and is a good pairing. So headphones matter. It just seemed the LCD-X, being a tad darker, headphone and adding the burson&2/64 combo just was good in all departments but when paired with my burson&gustard x20 pro the transients felt faster and separated the sound more. I don't think either sources sounds 'better' than the other but they just played well with certain amps. You can always go back to the 2 if you don't like the 2/64 which is so cool. But it does look like each the headphones and amps can change the sound in different ways because neither the 2/64 or soloist are neutral and play differently with set ups. I never would have guessed dacs made that much of a difference since I was always chasing neutrality, crazy.

@@MeowyBrigade did you end up enjoying the new 2/64?

On the Hifimans I've heard with it yes. I generally prefer the new over the OG on most chains.

I have not heard the pairing but the IHA-6's hi current mode should do reasonably well.

It is lovely with the iha-6 in high current mode feeding my LCD-X revised. It did not pair well with my Burson Soloist 3x. I especially thought there was character added to the sound, which the lcdx already does but it was a hi light 👍🏼

No.

It will be a fine pairing. The Piety will be the system's bottleneck for sure. But, that's not a big deal if you plan to use it only as a holdover until an upgrade.

Naw. Sold that one about a year ago to make room for other things.

Haven't directly tried it. I do know that A3 + 6XX is very good for the price. Combined with the higher resolution of the 2/64 version of BF2 and it likely sounds quite good. Both A3 and 6XX are a bit mellow up top so the 2/64 stands a good chance of adding in a bit more sparkle, if that's what you're looking for.

@@wavetheorysound thanks a bunch. I currently have a Modius and wanna know if the jump in price is worth it.

I believe he daily drives the HE1000 V2 but I could be wrong

John is correct. HE1000V2 from Singxer SU-2 > Berkeley Alpha Series 2 > Vio HPA V281 has been the main desk chain. I use Chord Hugo 2 > Focal Radiance using Cayin N6ii as source for a transportable rig. A consequence of this reviewing gig is I get relatively few opportunities to listen to those chains anymore.

@@wavetheorysound Nice. I've been thinking about branching out, but I am still so happy with my Bifrost 2/64 -> OG Jotunheim powering a set of Sennheiser HD650's (or my closed back DT770 Pro 250ohm when the room is noisy)

It is a substantial jump, yes. Even back to the OG BF2 the performance gain from the ~$200 DAC tier to the ~$700 DAC tier was even bigger than I thought it would be.

What headphone(s)? In general it will sound very good. Both are quality pieces and should work together nicely. The Asgard 3 will bottleneck the BF2, though. As good as Asgard 3 is, it's still $250 and won't squeeze out all the BF2 is offering.

@@wavetheorysound DT1990 pro and Grado 325x

I've always thought BF2 OG and Ares II were technical equals with different presentations. I more or less think the same of BF2/64 and Ares 12th Anny Ed.

What do you mean?

@@rumblerumble2276 Digital filters are needed to maximize the precision and minimize noise put out by a DAC. There have been a handful of DACs over the years which have omitted these filters, but those designs fail in comparison. No responsible designer would market one today. Understand, even dither (noise added to one or more LSBs) alone makes a usable, but not ideal, filter when resampling. Schiit added the NOS option to the Bifrost 2/64 to allow use of extrenal digital filters. It will _play_ music without one, but the reason the option exists is to allow owners to try external filters to see whether they will sound better than than Mike Moffet’s heralded closed-form filter. The Yggy uses a simliar filter to the Bifrost’s internal one, only more accurate. Read Schiit’s very brief description in its Yggdrasil Description page: >>>>>>> “Proprietary Digital Filter Preserves Original Samples Many DACs simply use the stock digital filters embedded in their D/A converters. But even the most sophisticated ones, using their own digital filter algorithms, don’t have what Yggdrasil has-a time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter with a true closed-form solution. This means it retains the original samples, performing a true interpolation. This digital filter gives you the best of both NOS (all original samples retained) and upsampling (easier filtering of out-of-band noise) designs.”

@@samuellord8576 thanks for the info. I've never really understood filters. Whenever I change them on my equipment, I don't hear a difference (or I don't recognize a difference). I just bought the Bifrost 2/64 and it will be my first DAC to offer NOS. Might this why GoldenSound found that the Areas II isn't really NOS? They didn't want the midtier crowd (like myself who don't understand filters) to use true NOS and then complain about it being a bad DAC?

@@rumblerumble2276 Hi RR, You are very welcome. I took a look at the Denafrips Ares II product page to see whether they allowed external-only filtering. i.e. NOS mode. They do! It’s a simple button push or two. The most important point about digital filtering, which is a kind of DSP (Digital Signal Pricessing) is that the best filtering requires substantial computing resources. IC chip DACs nearly always have these onboard the chip itself. DACs that use discrete resistor arrays (R2R) use, well programmable DSP ICs to pre-filter the digital code going into the DAC. A good example of this is seen on the lauded Holo Spring and May DACs. Even here, with a separate chip doing the filter calculations, there is some computational noise that enters the DAC. The best solution for this is external filtering. HQPlayer is certainly one of the best, and is housed in a computer that feeds the DAC. Chord makes a very powerful DSP box called the M Scalar which does nothing except digital filtering. Its use (with really superb filtering code by Rob Watts) gives Chord DACs like the Dave and TT extraordinary performance. Have a look here: chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugo-mscaler Let me finish by saying what I should have said at the start: consumer audio playback DACs began with very little digital filtering, and ran at 16 bits or even less at the CD sampling rate. A series capacitor on the output changed the stairstep output into a relatively smooth one. But aliasing was a substantial source of distortion. Then oversampling DAC chips, which took in 16/44kHz data and output 16 (or more) bits at 88.2 and often 96kHz. Those higher rates dramatically reduced aliasing distortion, but didn’t eliminate it. Finally, when DAC chips could be created with tiny onboard onboard computers for digital pre-filtering, big strides in accuracy and noise reduction followed. That is how most DACs exist today. But the holy grail was always external digital pre-filtering, which kept the computational noise away from the highly sensitive DAC circuitry. There were other big advancements like precise clocking, but nevermind. So designers of expensive DACs began to accommodate external filters like the M Scaler and Software-based filters like JRiver, Audirvana, and HQPlayer. Now Schiit has got onboard. They heavily market their closed-form filter, and it’s quite good, but it doesn’t have the raw power of the aforementioned offerings. I hope this helps. You’ll find plenty more technical info on forums like DIYAudio. Let me know if I need to clarify. Cheers!

Yes, most likely.

Hmmm, didn't do that A/B. However, I didn't ever have a moment where I thought it would meaningfully challenge the Hugo 2 in all-around performance.

@@wavetheorysound makes sense, was just curious given the improvement & more neutral tonality