The Donnager doesn't even have a fusion reactor, it simply flies powered by pure Martian middle finger energy.

I’m actually fairly certain that some of the fans of the Expanse books helped write some of the lore for use in the TV show. I know Spacedock here on KZfaq did a whole thing on it

There are many things I like about The Expanse's naval doctrine. One being the weapons multi-task (This helps reduce issues with logistics). There is one detail about when the Donnager is on screen that I really hate. Every time She shows up, she is killed. Sure she dies spectacularly, by showing off why she is feared, BUT she still dies.

There are naval torpedoes that are rocket powered, the defining quality of a torpedo is its ability to be pushed out of a tube by an external force. Some torpedo launchers have used black powder, oxygen, or even a "plug" of water.

So, going to chip in here. The term Torpedo simply means a tube-shaped explosive device to be used in naval warfare and long pre-dates the self-propelled torpedo that we are familiar with. These could refer to anything from a weapon far more akin to a sea-mine which is actually where we get the famous quote "Damn the Torpedoes, full speed ahead" or the so called Bangalore Torpedoes that were used by landing forces to clear beach obstacles during WW2 that was basically a long tube filled with explosives carried by infantry. The Expanse pulls nearly all it military terminology from Maritime navies, thus, a long range anti-ship weapon that carries a self-contained explosive warhead is a Torpedo, simply out of Naval tradition

In the later books the Laconia special ships that push like 20G acceleration, forcing the crew to be put in a liquid bed so they don’t turn to mush. The hard science of The Expanse can not be found in pretty much any sci-fi.

My favorite part of the lore is that Spacedock youtube channel got to create lore for ships and companies.

I was an engineer on the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63. We were like 1069 feet long 300ish meters and the heaviest I ever weighed her at was 86,292 tons. Our power to weight ratio was um... nice 280,000 shaft horsepower.

some Submarines do carry rocket powered torpedo's - the expanse was AWESOME

You forgot to feed Steve and now he's dead. Another banger of a vid RC.

Could you do the Truman class dreadnought as your next expanse vid? It’s my favourite Un ship and the donnager’s counterpart. Maybe the Timberwolf for your next battletech vid.

I was under the impression the Donnager could carry six Corvette class frigates. Each berthing space could be taken up by two Morrigan class patrol destroyers. Capt. Yao used this option to increase the range of her net during Oper. Silent Wall. If I'm mistaken, my apologies.

i like to think that there is a tech-priest in the engine room applying sacred oils and chantting prayers to the machine spirits of these MARTIAN MADE BEASTS based on this old game from earths distant past called WARHAMMER 40K.

I fell in love with the Donnager from the book and show, it's such an incredibly aggressive monster.

In military sci-fi the difference in missiles and torps are the role they play. missiles are weapons that are used for multiple applications, i.e.: anti-fighter, ground attack, and ECM. Torps are strictly used in the anti-ship role. they are orders of magnitude larger than missiles and are almost exclusively nuclear in nature, either contact nukes or some form of laser head. For those that don't know a laser head is a bomb pumped x-ray laser with multiple lasing rods orientated in all directions. See the Honor Harington books by David Weber. Interesting note: The bomb pumped laser concept was originally thought up in the 1970's, and in the mid 1980's Ronald Reagen's SDI program came up with the laser head concept from that. It is something we could really build today.

I think the battle scenes are one of the best things in The Expanse. But off topic about the Donager, the Aliens: Colonial Marines Technical Manual did talk about how space combat, much like The Expanse. The missile is the primary weapon and is best used for long distance, while the railguns are close combat weapons. Lasers are used for point defense. The armor, also is only good for against energy weapons and not kinetic weapons.I think the only difference is emission control, meaning knowing when to use your sensors to attack. It's almost like submarine warfare.

Yes, to battle breakdowns Yes, to more Expanse Yes, to feeding Stephen...He hates it when I spell it that way.... Hehehehe......

I freaking love The Expanse! Hope to see more of this content! Great vid man!

I can’t believe they canceled this show, it was literally the best thing on TV/streaming; God I hate Hollywood.

I love shit like this. Will be looking forward to further ship breakdown videos, especially from The Expanse universe. The prolog breaking down the rules of the universe was very well done.

Donnagers actual PDC count is closer to 36-42 than 59 based on what is shown onscreen. Spacedock came up with the 59 number.

Beautiful work. Thank you.

I do love the Donnie class.

I... LOVE... THE... EXPANSE! One of the most accurately represented sci-fi space shows I've seen.

I came here from your RagingCanadian channel and loved this video! I'm done with Wow and wargaming myself and very happy that you have a second channel that creates good content, because I like your "style". I'll be looking out for more take care!

love the enthusiasm!

Space dock has described the Doni as having “Sheer middle finge energy” in context to the anst barrage when Marco took the ring and I think it fits.

Ballistic defense weapons against incoming missiles are the last line of defense, modern ships use missiles to intercept enemy missiles/mortars or artillery, the guidance systems allow a much better hit probability & tracking with a higher payload than rounds could carry thus a much higher intercept probability (because incoming ordnance is actually destroyed by shrapnel that is generated by rounds/interceptor missiles exploding near them) In modern combat there are at least 5 layers of defense for something like a carrier, first one being long range radar, second being friendly aircraft like fighters, third being long range interceptor missiles, forth being countermeasures (electronic that block guidance systems in missiles + active ones like flares to confuse heat seaking) and the last line of defense are radar guided automated turrets (the PDCs from the expanse). I think they really slept on a lot of already existing tec in the show, a military combat ship in the future would have exponentially more combat capabilities then it is depicted.

Flying Death Prism pog. All I gotta say.

I seem to remember that the first nuke that hit Galactica caused substantial damage, and the nuke that went up in the civilian fleet completely destroyed at least one ship.

Interesting Sci FI bit on nukes. The Imperium of Man on Warhammer 40k views nukes as illegal weapons only to be used to kill planets under authorization form the highest of commanders. This in a universe were bio weapons, Poison gas human waves etc. are common.

I think the name torpedo is just for "naval" tradition. The Russian Skval ,if I'm correct does not use a prop, it uses a chemical rocket but it's not a missile.

Wonderful 🎉

It's not mentioned on the show but it is in the books: in The Expanse, under high-g and combat maneuvers, most of the crew is on the juice and sedated in their racks/crash couches with only a bare minimum conscious and operational.

Torpedoes are actually floating mines, MOTOR torpedoes a what you are describing. Pedantic sure, however, I bring this up in defense of the setting. Language changes over time to adapt to the need for communication. Missiles mean shoulder fired stuff, small scale intercept work etc and torpedoes are anti ship weapons, its not just for the audience It's for everyone involved to rapidly ID what you are talking about.

Hey, it was pretty good and had most of the banter in pragmatic science pretty spot on, particularly about acceleration forces. For some reason people think the 9G rating of some fighter aircraft relates to a sustainable biological figure but truth is that's not even sustainable for those aircraft. Now I only point this out because I love this stuff as much as you do, but the functionality of nukes in space is a bit off. In fact BSG got it right and the Expanse less so. There are plenty of science channels that have discussed the real physics of nukes in space but the short version is microwave cooker, no pressure wave. The reason we think they're so devastating is because of their effect in atmosphere, which tremendously magnifies its destructive power. In space they're not even an effective weapon unless detonated at very close range and all the damage is radiation type, mainly gamma rays and energetic radiation the kind spacecraft are ideally well shielded against as mundane protection from cosmic and stellar rays. Yes they're very intense but a good analogy would be a very powerful microwave oven cooking a portion of the ship next to the detonation point. It is not as materially destructive as a very good chemical warhead in space, which can still produce a significant pressure wave in the form of a reactive chemical expansion. Or perhaps some combination of a significant chemical warhead detonated by a nuclear trigger. If you were going to have nukes in space as a tactical ship weapon that would be the best form, nuclear trigger for a stupidly insane chemical reaction warhead. But pure nukes. Think BSG.

21:05 From this point on I had the Jetpack Joyride song in my head until the end of the video...

Love the Expanse! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Wing Commander series used "Torpedoes" for anti-ship missiles as well

"But Amaris had himself a problem...the goddamned Black Watch" Yay reference

@Science Insanity - what microphone are you using yourself? It seems like a good one, and I am shopping around for a decent one myself. Another fun episode, by the way, and I am very glad your channels are doing well! Keep it up! Some shorter battle breakdown videos should be fun.

Corvette class frigate sounds like a great way to just absolutely confuse your enemies. "They have 4 corvettes!" Claims the scout, so you move in and boom, there's 4 line ship that are more than ready to destroy you for thinking they were some rinky dinky corvettes.

Geez i am getting all needy watching her

I loved The Expanse, it was one of the best Sci Fi series ever in my opinion it was filmed in Canada.

I thought the Martians had the Superior Navy albeit smaller Navy and the Earthers had the bigger one?!

Good thing about this "unclimactic" combat in Expanse- it showcases how brutal warfare is. Shootout never lasts hours, sometimes it doesn't even lasts minutes- it can last a second if your oponent knows what to hit and when. A quick yeet of a well placed rocket disables your ship's defenses and another breaks the ship in half, done- explosive reality check followed by very unpleasant physics of vaccum gets introduced to your crew. And if your enemy decides to keep the scrap and not make it adrift- say hello to getting sterilized with either high levels of radiation or temperature. The plaz missile is a death sentence if you get someone unprepared in setting of Expanse- crew is gone, keep the scraps (you just need to vent the corpses out and maybe replace some circuitry). I bet scummy criminals would use that to yoink vessels without needing to do that much outside repairs

The Donny was an awesome looking ship.

The thing with nukes and conventional warheads is, it's not the fireball that does the damage, it's the shockwave and with no atmosphere there is no shockwave. So unless the enemy ship did not vacate it's atmosphere (which would allow for the boom to ripple through the ship) the damage would just be some molted plating (heat still transferes into it). So no nukes should not end ships, they are just more heat and cosmic radiation to ship (basically bigger plasma missiles).

In order to avoid a projectile, you need to detect the projectile. That is difficult, even with radar. With multiple sources of projectiles, that is more difficult still.

If you equipped a space missile with an Alcubierre Warp Drive I would call it a torpedo.

Re Nukes and Battletech. In BT lore, they indicate that the initial navy battles were nuke fests that result in mutual destruction. This was also often the case with ground combat too. Battlemechs partially mitigated this issue as they could walk around a nuclear battlefield with out issue unless hit (near) directly. Also one of the reasons that the First Succession War was so brutal and most warships didn't make it past the second war and none made it to the third. All of them, and the facilities to make them, were destroyed.

i agree with you about the "torpedo's"

Knowing what 11b crunchy is got my sub :D

Have you guys done a video on something from the Frontlines series of books by Marko Kloos?

"Mach Jesus" "Just Chacha Slide out of the way" :D

I worked on the show. They built most of the Rossi such that you could film all around, through, and inside it in a single take. Rumour has it that the cast is pushing to do another BSG reboot.

Please do a video on the space combat sim called Children of A Dead Earth, for even harder sci-fi

Nice Scotty Quote.

Actually I believe you’re wrong about the carry capacity, as I recall it can carry 1 frigate or two destroyers in each of it’s six hanger spaces

Oh yeah, it's a realisitic series. SHRAPNEL becuase of FRACTION OF LIGHTSPEED SLUG.

Wow, why did I just stumble now on this channel?

17:10 Aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetchov says hi.

Terran Fleet: The British Navy pre First Sea Lord Admrial Jackie Fisher Marshin Fleet: The British Navy with the fleet Jackie Built.

Always a bit surprised that the series didn't have official model kits, like Star Trek or Star Wars. The series was popular enough.

The best part of the Expanse's ships is that they put the command and control systems and flight crew in the core of the ship behind the thickest armor. Because when you're flying a warship through space that's exactly where you'd wanna be.

Funny comparison. Babylon 5 had a thing about 'gun ports open' in the show - the earth-minbari war started basically because of 'gun ports open' but the ship models didn't HAVE gunports. the only hint of which was that b5's defense turrets happened to be hidden away the same way, but none of the SHIPS hid/protected their guns like that. The Donnie, and pretty much every MCRN ship, has these. The PDCS are all tucked away when not in combat. So even though B5 was basically a mix of 'hard' and 'soft' scifi in the space combat arena - the starfury's basically operating the same way as Expanse meanwhile all the alien ships excluding the narn have artificial gravity and stuff. REALLY wish that 'uh you've got your guns out What the hell dude?' issue from B5 was properly done in Expanse at some point.

The Notebooks of Lazarus Long tell us: "Stupidity is the Universe's only capital crime and the sentence is meted out immediately and without mercy."

Like the vid very good, but hammer lock is for railgun range. So the longest range weapons they use in the expanse is torpedoes/missiles Then railguns and last but not the least the closest are the PDC's. Just wanted to add to your points they do use armour on the ships but as you said physics, the armour is usually matched to weapons of similar size. Also the reason they use pdc instead of flare counter measures is because the tracking command and control is superior to current day so its basically ineffective so pointless

Man you are soooo right!!! All of it are missiles...

You used the Space Cruise track from FTL for the background?

If I remember correctly, the Donnagers actually have the power to mount all 4 Foehammers. The only reason they don't mount the other 2 is because the ship literally cannot handle the stress of firing 4 guns. Also, plasma torps are for stripping armour off of a target to leave bigger ships open to being gutted by PDC fire. You mention Galactica as unarmoured, she wasn't. She was under-crewed and under-armed.

The "juice" was described in the books as a cocktail of mostly painkillers and sedatives, with some anti-coagulants, vasodilatiors, and muscle relaxers sprinkled in. Most passengers and non-essential crew would be sedated for any maneuvers that would require the juice. Essential crew, in civilian vessels, this was usually just the pilot, would have amphetamines mixed with their formulations to keep them awake in case anything went wrong. In book 4, when there was rush to settle the new worlds, the demand for "the juice" was so high that the crew of Roci could only get their hands on some of the lowest quality formulations, which was described as mostly just morphine.

I'm a simple man: I see Donnie, I put my like

I felt personally attacked about the Battletech comment.

At 3:00 you mention that ships in the expanse have a hard up limit how fast they can go. I think you meant accelerate because there is no upper limit how fast they can go theoretically. Just a little nit pick that's been bothering me.

The railguns on donnager were the same they later put on ring station?

Interesting ship. Negligent Captain?

My favorite ship in the Expanse.

Much of the destructive power of a nuclear weapon comes from how it interacts with an atmosphere. With regard to BSG, a lot would depend on where the device detonated.

@17:32 Aw, it's just a little frigate. We can deal with that, no problem. Rocinante: [angry porcupine noises]

In most Sci-Fi, missiles are not large enough to single hit kill a target vessel. Torpedoes tend to be at least large enough on their own to at least threaten a reshaping of the fight. And some can one hit kill the target vessel.

Looking forward to the video about the Morrigan class. One nit picking thing I do not like about The Expanse. The way they classify their ship types. On Earth pre space. scout/patrol boat, corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, and battleship. Mars does it like: patrol torpedo boats, patrol destroyer, frigate and the other larger ships.

Nukes' effects in-atmosphere are very different than in a vacuum. No atmosphere means no shockwave. Shockwave is a *huge* part of why terrestrial nukes are as devastating as they are.

Best scifi show ever made

I know I have heard the music before. Anyone remember what it is from, or called?

Ship naming conventions and the designations of weapons change over time. Torpedos didnt used to have propellers, they used to be sea mines. If you look at quotes and battle descriptions from the US civil war they called static sea mines topedos, so its not so far fetched to make a disticnt definition between space torpedos and space missiles based on the future context of the setting

Just as a point of comparison, the Donnager is about the size of a Dreadnought-class heavy cruiser, or the length of 3 CR90s.

Ah interrogation suite, most ships have one? It's just the airlock?

? Dude the Galactica is a giant floating slab of armor with fighter bays inside and guns duck taped all over the outside. Yes it took a nuke but it took pretty serious damage from it as well.A second one would have finished it off.. The biggest threat from a nuke, tactical ones being the type they appear to use in Galactica, something we have as well that are meant for battlefield combat rather than destroying cities. Is often the radiation and then the blast wave propagating through atmosphere. Saul said it himself, the ships armor kept out most the hard radiation. I think your really underselling the balance of things in BSG there. And as far as it goes, the Galactica was the largest warship the Colonials had for an era. Yes they had newer ships that were in that category and possibly did mass larger. Still it was an og battleship/carrier hybird that made up the backbone of the original war effort.

For the Black Watch, a nuke is merely an inconvenience because they are too angry to die. The Black Watch likes whisky, bag pipes, and murder. - Thank you Mr. Tex of the BPL for those inspiring words.

You are wrong about the torpedoes.... The difference between torpedo and missile is given by how the engine works.... In torpedoes the engine "burns" continuous which implies that the weapon is under-propulsion and acceleration at all times. Missiles, just like the ones in our own time, have a "smaller burn" phase, during which it accelerates to a certain speed but after that the acceleration becomes 0 (or negative in case of the missile in our own times)... This is why in modern air-to-air fights energy conservation is critical and exchanging potential energy for speed (kinetic energy) is one of the go-to tactics for missile dodging... This is also why dodging missiles is possible (not easy though) but once you dodge it you are safe... However, when it comes to something like a MK48 ADCAP, you may dodge it once, but it will return, and the odds are that you won't be able to escape it twice... Also, just FYI, modern torpedoes use pump-jets, which for all intents and purposes are jets....

When my ships RCS system is damaged or disabled they DO use their guns as their RCS.

Think 12 guage sized canisters and bird shot mag drive accelarated. Sand blaster o doom comes to mind.

The Rocinante used a rail gun as a thruster in the 3rd book iirc.

can yall do some farscape lore?

12:16 The combat Burj Khalifa!

30:47 Does this battle-armor make my thighs look fat? No, your thighs make the battle-armor look fat.

if you like this you should look in the UC timeline Gundam ships also grounded in hard scifi...

The thing about Nukes in space...You'd basically get a big flash and some highly-energised particles. Lethal to say; an unarmoured target. Against armour? Not so much, unless they've created a nuke that utilises a 'munroe-effect.'

Nukes used in a vacuum have a much pretty much no blast and little thermal effect. But the radioactive effects are much greater then used in atmosphere. So BSG nukes where more accurate to the damage done to ship structure. Other wise a really fun video to watch!