Score analysis #1 - Cipriano de Rore / Amor ben mi credevo

  Рет қаралды 25,518

Early Music Sources

Early Music Sources

6 жыл бұрын

For the footnotes and other extra information see the following link:
www.earlymusicsources.com/yout...
Music performance: Profeti della Quinta (www.quintaprofeti.com)
Created by Elam Rotem
www.earlymusicsources.com
Many thanks to Giovanna Baviera, Anne Smith, and Alon Schab
Support us on PATERON: / earlymusicsources
Support us by getting an Awesome T-shirt: pro.teechip.com/stores/earlym...

Пікірлер: 113
@brugelxencerf
@brugelxencerf 6 жыл бұрын
Asleep? Hardly...this is one of the most interesting 'early music' videos I've ever seen. I'm very much into Bach and forward. Don't understand his roots, though, or the religion.
@aldolopez9564
@aldolopez9564 4 жыл бұрын
I studied counterpoint in the conservatory and nothing of this was taught to me. I can see that the approach we have is too simplified and feel grateful for all the things I'm learning thanks to this channel.
@ZapataCarratala
@ZapataCarratala 6 жыл бұрын
This channel is an absolute gem on KZfaq. I wish a continuated growth into the YT music spotlight.
@Flatscores
@Flatscores 6 жыл бұрын
Wonderful video. I highly appreciate this kind of thorough analysis of renaissance polyphony. I know you focus on 16-17th century Italy, but would it be possible to perhaps take a look at even earlier polyphony? Composers such as Dufay or des Prez?
@MatheusPrabowo
@MatheusPrabowo 6 жыл бұрын
Finally! New video from Early Music Sources
@MyItalianCircle
@MyItalianCircle 4 жыл бұрын
3:00 La bellezza dell'italiano! It's comforting to find such high-quality content on KZfaq nowadays. Grazie!
@maxjohn6012
@maxjohn6012 Жыл бұрын
That has to be one of the most hauntingly beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard. Thank you so much.
@giuseppesergi2406
@giuseppesergi2406 6 жыл бұрын
Great, as many others on your channel: a clear, wise and interesting contribution both on the musicological and musical points of view. Among many merits, I especially appreciated the fair and prudent presentation of critical issues like mode identification, modes affects, and musica ficta. And the plain but brilliant communication choices make the video didactically useful and effective. Thank you very much for it: please give us more of these kind of analysis!
@GBN_01
@GBN_01 6 жыл бұрын
Fantastic stuff! We need more of these!!
@reedmullican5070
@reedmullican5070 5 жыл бұрын
This madrigal is absolutely stunning. The cadence (?) at the word "tormento" gives me chills every time.
@sebastianbrix
@sebastianbrix 6 жыл бұрын
This is my favourite channel on KZfaq.
@mafuaqua
@mafuaqua 4 жыл бұрын
Congratulations to and admiration of your perfect balance and harmony between content and presentation, you make early music accessible to mere mortals.
@dorontirosh
@dorontirosh 9 ай бұрын
An amazing, special episode, just as each and every one of them. Thank you
@DUNCZI
@DUNCZI 3 жыл бұрын
Yah, Elam is an authentic source of early music-theory and vocal-poliphony!!!
@victoreijkhout6146
@victoreijkhout6146 5 жыл бұрын
Such density in a seemingly simple piece of music. Thanks for the detailed information.
@jeromeducharme2671
@jeromeducharme2671 4 жыл бұрын
Didn’t Fall asleep! More analysis videos please.
@martinmar148
@martinmar148 4 жыл бұрын
An amazing analysis. Every video in this channel is a gem. Thanks a lot for this!
@kenm.2793
@kenm.2793 6 жыл бұрын
thank you adam neely and thank you early music sources! i've been looking for an early music channel that is not inaccessibly academic and advanced. with one year of music theory i can follow almost all of this. keep it up!
@diegofustes790
@diegofustes790 2 жыл бұрын
Man, I love this channel. Thank you so much for such an amazing work.
@luisortega4991
@luisortega4991 5 жыл бұрын
How could anybody have fallen asleep?? It was thrilling! Thank you
@zeeh.2866
@zeeh.2866 5 жыл бұрын
It's such a pleasure to see professional yet hilarious content on early music!
@cameronsteuart1197
@cameronsteuart1197 Жыл бұрын
I like these analysis videos the best, I play mostly music from the 18th century and so everything before that sounds more or less the same to me (If I'm being honest) this helps me to hear the very unique aspects of this piece!
@constantinf.stimmer9445
@constantinf.stimmer9445 6 жыл бұрын
Exiting video! That is a very clearly structured an informed analysis. The sources, theoretical knowledge and their elegant interpretation come together forming an inspiring perspective. Please more!
@pfodtakem9536
@pfodtakem9536 6 жыл бұрын
Great video, thank you so much. I hope to see many more of these.
@CraigCameronmusic
@CraigCameronmusic Жыл бұрын
Absolutely Beautiful!! The harmonies had me in a trance, I shall listen again.
@pedroaugustocamerata597
@pedroaugustocamerata597 6 жыл бұрын
I actually cried a little watching the last part of this gorgeous and thorough analysis of such an amazing madrigal. Please keep up your awesome approach, it's really inspiring. Could you study some piece by Gesualdo for some future video? Thank you!
@aulos43
@aulos43 5 жыл бұрын
Delightful. Brilliant. Enlightening. Ben mi credo che voi siano fantastici. Thank you.
@demezzerate6769
@demezzerate6769 2 жыл бұрын
lol, this is fantastic analysis, there's no way i would be asleep by the end of the video
@chris_outh
@chris_outh 6 жыл бұрын
Love this
@JuanAndresPalacios
@JuanAndresPalacios 4 жыл бұрын
I hope all the best for you!! I think EMS is the best channel in KZfaq. Thanks!
@lucascecim9102
@lucascecim9102 4 жыл бұрын
Amazing Video and sources! great work!
@guadalupecorona5367
@guadalupecorona5367 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, wouderful job!!
@claudiopassilongocommunity
@claudiopassilongocommunity 3 жыл бұрын
Fantastico. Grazie!
@carlosandres7006
@carlosandres7006 6 жыл бұрын
Love you guys. You explain everything i've always wanted to know. Thanks! : )
@corosanmarcotoronto7560
@corosanmarcotoronto7560 4 жыл бұрын
Great Madrigal and wonderful analysis. With such insights, one can listen to the madrigals with a true understanding of the music and composer's way of expressing the meaning of the text.
@GraysonOhnstad
@GraysonOhnstad 6 жыл бұрын
This was a fantastic cognitive and aural experience. I look forward to hearing more!
@davidhunter5081
@davidhunter5081 5 жыл бұрын
This is so interesting as are other episodes you have produced. Thank you.
@tuileries6
@tuileries6 6 жыл бұрын
Another amazing video! Learned a lot from it. Thank you !
@paulsmith5752
@paulsmith5752 4 жыл бұрын
I just love Professor Farnsworth's deep musical insights... good news, everybody!
@theskoomacat7849
@theskoomacat7849 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this great video!
@grocheo1
@grocheo1 5 жыл бұрын
Meraviglioso. Grazie
@barbol56
@barbol56 6 жыл бұрын
I am so not asleep. beautifully explained.
@TheWisdomJar
@TheWisdomJar 6 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed your video very much, its a delight to understand the score of madrigals, and analyzing the theme and the text gives relevance to greater comprehending of the art of the century ! Hope to watch more on your chanale !!
@WilliamFord972
@WilliamFord972 3 жыл бұрын
The bonk at 15:38 has me cracking up!
@stefanobertuol8660
@stefanobertuol8660 4 жыл бұрын
I’m not sleeping at all!!! Thanks a lot. I love you ❤️
@FranBarajasMusic
@FranBarajasMusic 6 жыл бұрын
Great analysis!!!!
@schonbergsjazzadventures2961
@schonbergsjazzadventures2961 6 жыл бұрын
Very interesting! More analysis`s like this would be very cool!
@Nekog1rl
@Nekog1rl 6 жыл бұрын
Great walkthrough of a beautiful, "durum" piece! Makes me want to dig out my Senfl lieder &c. and have a go at analyzing them in this manner.
@MrJonahWhaler
@MrJonahWhaler 6 жыл бұрын
Great!
@der0hund
@der0hund 4 жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks a lot!
@danielwaitzman2118
@danielwaitzman2118 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@dennismenezes9423
@dennismenezes9423 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this work ! Like for sure !
@prisacchettin
@prisacchettin 5 жыл бұрын
I'm just about to listen to a live performance of madrigals (Concerto Italiano + Rinaldo Alessandrini at Pierre Boulez Saal), and for sure I'm going to listen to it in a better way after watching this video - Thanks! And I LOVE that you have the painting by Pethrus Christus (Portrait of a Young Girl) at the background, because the original one is in Berlin, precisely where I am now.
@silviaalessandragiummo6161
@silviaalessandragiummo6161 6 жыл бұрын
you're always interestin ! Thanks !
@OfficialDanieleGottardo
@OfficialDanieleGottardo 5 жыл бұрын
Amazing lesson!!!
@gamer46653
@gamer46653 6 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@ArthurSieg
@ArthurSieg 6 жыл бұрын
I find it very inspiring how this composer interpreted the text and turned that into music in such unexpected (for me, at least) ways! Something I wish would be done more nowadays. Could you explain maybe why the major 6th is considered such a harsh interval? I can't find an intuitive solution to this myself!
@ellenwellenstein4149
@ellenwellenstein4149 4 жыл бұрын
much appreciated!
@LudmillaTSF
@LudmillaTSF 6 жыл бұрын
Great great video
@windowsforvista
@windowsforvista 5 жыл бұрын
Wow this is great! I can't believe there are no recordings of this piece available on KZfaq or Spotify though!
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 5 жыл бұрын
An album featuring this recording will be released on this January: Profeti della Quinta / AMOR, FORTUNA ET MORTE
@williamland2646
@williamland2646 4 жыл бұрын
At 15:56 the hemiola is meant to be squared into the meter, but on the score it was written that this meant the notes would instead of being quarter triplets (3 equidistant notes per bar) it became simultaneous with the other notes written in the meter of piece. Is there no possibility that applying the hemiola to the meter meant something more like the notes striking in 16th or 8th note approximations? I'm thinking instead of a quarter note triplet in 4/4 perfectly divided they would approximate it by "quantizing" that to the 8th note. I.e.: striking on the 1st, 6th, and 12th '8th' note in this meter. (Sorry for my American way of describing) This would actually make alot of sense bc it wouldnt obfuscate meter and writing the rhythm as complex as that is silly especially to a singer at that time? This would make notating and reading pretty simply albeit imprecise
@josephmoore2527
@josephmoore2527 4 жыл бұрын
Love this. For contrast, could you perhaps do a similar analysis of a piece contemporary with the Rore that follows the 'rules' more exactly? It would be interesting to try to get the 'normal' stuff in my ears enough for the less usual passages from Rore to sound more unusual. As it is, it is beautiful, but I suspect I'm not getting the full effect. Thanks!
@ignaciomiranda4950
@ignaciomiranda4950 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the Analysis!!! Hope you could make a new chapter with some Gesualdo´s madrigal for learning more of the word painting :)
@stephenspackman5573
@stephenspackman5573 2 жыл бұрын
After a little thought, we conclude that this is 16th century blues. The coffee, by the way, was appreciated, but in no way required.
@urssulas
@urssulas 3 жыл бұрын
Just a thought for the channel of maybe also posting the videos on Nebula as well. That’d be so great! 😁
@gabrielsalles8403
@gabrielsalles8403 6 жыл бұрын
Rinaldo by Handel please
@VaughanMcAlley
@VaughanMcAlley 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I always learn things in your videos, and I did this time, even though I've sung a lot of de Rore. The black notation is odd. The squared-off rhythms don't contain anything that couldn't be notated with white notes, and there doesn't seem any great motivation in the text for black notation right there (but no motivation for triplets either really). So personally I'd be inclined to sing triplets. Sung by good group with proper phrasing and word stress, I think the cross-rhythms could be less jarring than they sound on the computer. Cheers!
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 6 жыл бұрын
Yes, I agree that it might be less jarring when sung live. I'll be happy to hear other performances with this interpretation.
@DrDTsoukas
@DrDTsoukas 5 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Would you consider analyzing a gesualdo madrigal and his unique chromaticism that connects 16th century with boulez through wagner? Thank you for your great videos and for the resources
@iclizitella
@iclizitella 3 жыл бұрын
Your channel is one of the best in KZfaq! Bravissimi! I have only one criticism: the link to read the footnotes doesn't work in all of videos.
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 3 жыл бұрын
Please tell me where. In any case you can find an the details on our website www.earlymusicsources.com
@MichaelSeltenreich
@MichaelSeltenreich 6 жыл бұрын
Great video! I was wondering, why would Rore use a hemiolia if it's meant to be sung square? What's its purpose then in this context?
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 6 жыл бұрын
It joins to a list of things we don't know and can only speculate. The fact is that there are several sources that says that this is how hemiolia should be interpreted when it is not in all the voices. A possible direction might be connected with slightly earlier music where simple things were sometimes notated in a complicated way for symbolic reasons. I hope it's clear in the video that I'm not saying that the interpretation I prefer is the RIGHT one; I present two possible interpretations, and eventually have to choose one when performing.
@jhummelgaard9310
@jhummelgaard9310 Жыл бұрын
I'm not so sure about what you say about suspensions at 17.30 - according to Knud Jeppesen such suspensions (9th etc) are normal at least in the music of Palestrina. Were they used as a special dissonant effect only ? Great video, lots of useful information.
@CM-xs2eb
@CM-xs2eb 5 жыл бұрын
I really love these videos! Keep up the great work! What software do you use to produce these videos btw?
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I use Adobe After effects and Premiere.
@leocomerford
@leocomerford 6 жыл бұрын
The mug is for sale: pro.teechip.com/stores/earlymusicsources
@chrysalifourfour
@chrysalifourfour 6 жыл бұрын
Wonderful analysis as always, thank you so much for making such tutorials available! I cannot but raise the question: at ca. 16:00 (cadence in "piacer") shouldn't the tenorizans be a downward step? Maybe I've got it wrong, but would definitely appreciate some clarification on this. Again thank you and looking forward to more videos on Renaissance music key elements.
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 6 жыл бұрын
You are right, it's rare that a tenorizans would go upwards, it would be called an evaded cadence (whenever the finalis is not "the right one" it can be called evaded). Specifically on this place, as I showed, there is actually no cadence, it just seems like one.
@felixdeckers8863
@felixdeckers8863 4 жыл бұрын
I appreciate al your videos but more audio fragments would help it really step up a game
@theskoomacat7849
@theskoomacat7849 6 жыл бұрын
For some reason the "piacer" part feels really calm, wide and cadence-like to me. Any idea where this comes from? You say in the video it is not one, according to renaissance rules, but I just feel something final there. Maybe more like a medieval influence? I'd be glad if you helped me get a gold on the feeling.
@merseyviking
@merseyviking 4 жыл бұрын
Why is the modern score marked as being in cut time, when it is in 4/2? Also, there's a typo in the cantus part around 11:15 "et in mille piacer" should be "ed in mille piacer" - it's a bit late to change it now though :) Out of academic interest, what software was used for setting the score?
@merseyviking
@merseyviking 4 жыл бұрын
Aaaand I just watched the video on Tactus, so it all makes sense now! *facepalm*
@iiWNMii
@iiWNMii 6 жыл бұрын
+1 for the use of Futurama.
@josemariabessone4796
@josemariabessone4796 3 жыл бұрын
16:30 I don't understand why a ficta can't be added. Would it break any rule of counterpoint? Could someone explain? Thanks a lot!
@SimoneBattaglia94
@SimoneBattaglia94 2 жыл бұрын
Because on the Cantus part you would end up with F - #G which is an augmented second. You might think that you could solve that by sharpening the F to #F in both the Cantus and Bassus but that is a problem because it creates a diminished diminished fifth interval #F-C. The picardy third in the last chord is also impossible due to the resulting #C-hC between Tenor and Cantus. All of these things are totally out of style in this type of music.
@RicardoMarlowFlamenco
@RicardoMarlowFlamenco 10 ай бұрын
I have seen bizarre intabulations for lute/vihuela that contradict strongly the idea that “style of this type of music” is concretely known today. At first thinking printer errors were occurring I looked deeper and found it quite common to accept tritones and augmented chords, where certain ficta make the most sense. My conclusion, generally, it was always wide open to interpretation and that was actually the point…yes if use a ficta then there are rules, but kind of loose. Perhaps also, using an instrument to “break rules” under a single vocal part, where if it was only vocals it wouldn’t fly, might have been the idea too, who knows? Leaving it “vanilla” as written is totally cool too. Take it or leave it but the sources have too many contradictions to attempt to be definitive.
@marcussfebruary9104
@marcussfebruary9104 6 жыл бұрын
Where can I listen to the whole song?? 👀
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 6 жыл бұрын
It will be available on the next CD publication of ensemble Profeti della Quinta (release early 2019)
@gergoolle5773
@gergoolle5773 6 жыл бұрын
I like this methodology. Would it be worth to analyse only by the chords and chords changing?
@Flatscores
@Flatscores 6 жыл бұрын
You would not be thinking like the early composers in this case, but applying modern theory to old music.
@gergoolle5773
@gergoolle5773 6 жыл бұрын
I only know modern music theory at the same time I understand how it is written, however I would not be able to write like this by the "old rules". Is it a problem if I make music like this by the modern theory? Thanks :)
@Flatscores
@Flatscores 6 жыл бұрын
Polyphony is a part of modern musical education as well. The thinking should be around individual melodic lines that give rise to harmony and not chordal. Even if you want to write in the style of Bach - 200 years later - still you'd need that approach.
@gergoolle5773
@gergoolle5773 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I appreciate your fast answer.
@TourPanorama
@TourPanorama 6 жыл бұрын
It is all possible, but it doesn't take in account the esthetics of the 16th century and therefore takes out the subtilities of this music :) What I can recommend however is to analyse all the intervalls between each line and the bass : then the first part would be to recognise parralel movements (3ds, 6ths, 10ths), because parralelisms are the base of 16th century polyphony (for example, it is the most important ingredient in improvised counterpoint "Chant sur le livre") ! The second part would be to recognise passages where the tenor part proceds essentially by steps (without so many leaps) and see if the bass-line alternates 5ths and 3ds under it (also something you can find in improvised counterpoint). I think it is not the priority in counterpoint to really want to hear every melody every voice makes, like we think we should, but to talk about coulourful intervals (not chords), and whether these are consonances or dissonances. If you want to know more about improvised counterpoint, which is the best way to understand this music's architecture, I recommend the KZfaq channel called "Chanter sur le livre à la renaissance" (kzfaq.info/love/N0kunrbxBCTUK_vDQEKFPwfeatured). The videos have english subtitles ! :)
@LudmillaTSF
@LudmillaTSF 6 жыл бұрын
7:21 This kind of literal word painting, meant for performers to see on paper but not really audible, could also be what they call "eye music" (augenmusik)
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 6 жыл бұрын
yes, there is definitely this aspect as well
@isaiasramosgarcia9771
@isaiasramosgarcia9771 4 жыл бұрын
he looked gooder! with longer hair
@kamikan22
@kamikan22 3 жыл бұрын
well we can all agree the piece is on meme mode
@leonidasdeguevara7146
@leonidasdeguevara7146 4 жыл бұрын
♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️🐀
@qwaqwa1960
@qwaqwa1960 6 жыл бұрын
Modes, schmodes.
@burbanpoison2494
@burbanpoison2494 6 жыл бұрын
Subbed. Not because Adam Neely tells me what to do, though...
@EarlyMusicSources
@EarlyMusicSources 6 жыл бұрын
did he mention Early Music Sources?
@burbanpoison2494
@burbanpoison2494 6 жыл бұрын
Early Music Sources he did, indeed. Called you criminally undersubscribed.
@burbanpoison2494
@burbanpoison2494 6 жыл бұрын
Early Music Sources kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oLl-bKmh1Zq5h58.html I think it was in the part about the use of "do" in English solfege, around 3:00.
@bifeldman
@bifeldman 6 жыл бұрын
I am not asleep, but I am a standard deviation smarter.
@kuroimusic
@kuroimusic 4 жыл бұрын
I can't possibly sleep with such idea of integration of text and music, and such rigid rules.
@danyelnicholas
@danyelnicholas Жыл бұрын
Excellent, so what emerges is that those mannerist madrigalists took the rather stereotyped lyrics as a reservoir of pretexts to compose harsh, bizarre and unruly counterpoint. The despair of the poet is the delight of the listener craving for new sounds. Vincenzo Gallilei and Artusi however intervened when it got too bad. In a sense the entire seconda prattica can be seen as an excess of this tendency which notoriously irritated the polite humanists in Italy and, in particular, France. The old question: if you depict someone’s decapitation, does it have to look gruesome? - the answer being: why would you want to paint such a thing in the first place?
@CalebePriester
@CalebePriester Жыл бұрын
I don't enjoy this style of polyphony. It's too messy.
@n7275
@n7275 6 жыл бұрын
Great video!
Score analysis #2 - Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck - Hexachord Fantasia
13:32
Early Music Sources
Рет қаралды 44 М.
Artusi VS Monteverdi
22:49
Early Music Sources
Рет қаралды 44 М.
Heartwarming Unity at School Event #shorts
00:19
Fabiosa Stories
Рет қаралды 23 МЛН
DEFINITELY NOT HAPPENING ON MY WATCH! 😒
00:12
Laro Benz
Рет қаралды 64 МЛН
Пранк пошел не по плану…🥲
00:59
Саша Квашеная
Рет қаралды 6 МЛН
The fascinating counterpoint of Lamentation letters
20:38
Early Music Sources
Рет қаралды 33 М.
Cipriano de Rore/Paladino: 'Anchor che col partire' for lute
4:20
False relations in the late Renaissance
17:45
Early Music Sources
Рет қаралды 36 М.
Richard Feynman: Can Machines Think?
18:27
Lex Clips
Рет қаралды 1,5 МЛН
Intabulations in the 16th and 17th centuries
18:27
Early Music Sources
Рет қаралды 24 М.
Why Does Music Only Use 12 Different Notes?
17:41
David Bennett Piano
Рет қаралды 2,1 МЛН
The Bridges to Fermat's Last Theorem - Numberphile
27:53
Numberphile
Рет қаралды 1,2 МЛН
Cipriano de Rore / Com'avran fin - full take from recording (28/11/2023)
2:23
Improvisation around 1600 - Introduction
23:04
Early Music Sources
Рет қаралды 51 М.