I'm confident to say the locations for Spider, Phoenix, Sirius and Griffin are 100% legit. It's interesting how the unused colossi helps you imagine the different phases of development (Since Ueda stated they were halfway trough the creation when they scrapped out the 8 colossi). I mean: Sirius is the only one where everything is ready except for the fact he is missing. He almost made it to the final game! Phoenix and Worm had their areas almost nice and ready but then they lost to their rivals: Basaran and Phalanx. Devil and Roc areas once existed in the map, maybe even inside the actual borders who knows, but the map has changed so much they are now untraceable. Just as Ueda stated most of the map was planned out when 8 colossi were already out of the picture, that's why it's so hard to find traces of them. Similar to Spider, but in this case the area didn't change too much and it's easy to locate him. Griffin's situation is even cooler. The map was supposed to be much bigger even at south-east, either that or they were developing a beta arena in the open sea. So we can't really say that was his position in the world, but we can say that as long as he existed that was his liar. Then we arrive to Monkey... I consider this your main theory. It's a shame I3 is void when I2 has the dam and it's so close... Anyway if we consider that space a cave your theory is solid, you even found a path from the dam's cave to that! But what if it isn't? Talking about your blog post I don't know if the height coordinates are a proof since the background of the screenshot is black and they might have been testing the colossus simply in the thin air above the ground and not inside his lair. Also let's remember that is an unfinished area as you know ( imageshack.com/f/30/mapcomparison.gif) and it doesn't resemble the other examples of cave from above (Dirge and Barba where the light holes are very clear), but it reminds me more of a depression, like Basaran's bedlake or beta map Avion's empty lake (look at it!). Now notice the dam is useless without a lake, so could that be another, yet to fill, bedlake? With the path beside which leads to the Dam and maybe Devil's cliff (wild speculation here) ? 2.bp.blogspot.com/-cY9u-_jpR2s/Ti61_6RBmTI/AAAAAAAAAIc/xEga7faAsv0/s640/Dam+map2.jpg I don't know but the feeling that Monkey's situation is the same as Phoenix and Worm is still strong in me. He either lost his arena to Dirge or he never had one in the first place (which would explain the black background and the impressive height 92 metres, too much for the roof of a cave in the game, too far away from the player). I don't know but maybe the last experiment would be if you discover how they made the map. I mean starting from the 3d model which filters did they use to make it look like a painting? This way you could finally discover, with a bit of comparisons, how did it look like as a 3d model. I'd love to know your opinion on this.

You'll also notice that in the image of the early Entrance you can see Wander's life meter... so I think in early builds Wander could run around back there which would lend credence to the Spider being at F0. Perhaps you passed by the entrance temple to fight the Spider?

i wish the devs would add the other colossi in like a lore book or something.they could use the angle, that wander couldn't have been the only one to try to revive someone, maybe others could have tried to take on the colossi and failed only killing the beta colossi. it would give me some closure for the game

the map sometimes felt empty... i wish some of these colossi had made it to the game. (English isn't my native)

Apparently it used stalagmites on the cave roof to move around. Maybe it shot energy bolts at Wander? You shot at weak spots on it's arms with arrows until it fell to the ground (like we do with 8) then you could stab its weak spot.

This Nomad is intelligent... o.o

Yes, I thought of the lake in 9's cave, but it's not very big... I don't think the Phoenix would have fit into it, and yes I realized my error too late, I put the 'e' where the 'o' should be. I also spelt Griffin as Griffon in the last video, although this is OK as it has different spellings.

Correct. There are 24 save shrines + the Shrine of Worship itself (which acts as one huge save shrine). So it begs the question if each colossi has a save shrine near it where were the other 8 beta colossi located? I still think they were put in various places around the map (including the beta lands) so they might have just moved the save shrines to the mainland instead of deleting 8 of them like they did with the colossi. But you would think they should have 16 save shrines only.

rip 8 beta colossus :'v

If I ever become a game programmer this will be the first thing I do, re-create SOTC and add in all the beta colossi

Wow. Eight years later and this game is still wrapped around by mystery. This game was fun and mysterious as well

I have the NICO dvd and there is no video or images of the Monkey. There is a sketch of the Monkey in the art book holding onto stalactites but in no way does it describe where the cave is.

It's interesting to compare the speculation in this video with what we know now

Greetings ; ) Yeah that's the OPM demo, I've made a detailed blog post about its differences to the final version.

Making a single colossi be as lifelike as they all are must've been incredibly tough and the game itself is probably in my top 5 if not my favorite game every made. I'm just really really let down to see those 8 beta colossi and how they had like a model and a full idea ready, they all seemed like they would work and having 8 more colossi would've made this game just that much better, 16 is impressive but I know all the fights too well now and I'm pretty sure it's never getting a sequel, it's just a shame to know that there's so little of such a great game

god, I wish they would make a kind of uncut version of this game... with the 8 cut colossi in it as sort of like an optional boss fight. Don't need to defeat them to win the game.. but you're still able to fight them.

rip all 32 colossus ._.

He did think about 48 colossi at first, but they only actually worked on 24. There are 81 squares on the map, so there was plenty of room for more, but even 24 turned out to be too many in the end. The stuff about Dionin can't be confirmed so until someone can provide a source for where this info came from we can't be sure it's true.

Hey Nomad, i was playing Shadow of the Colossus the other day and noticed something that i haven't heard anyone mention and just wanted to share it. I noticed that there is a savee point near just about every colossus, and then a bunch of others. I happened to find a save point very near where you said Sirius, the Phoenix, and the Spider may have been. So i came to the conclusion that each extra save point may have indicated a possible site for one of the beta colossus.

4:18 Very good work! Seriously, Nomad, top investigative work all round. :)

Empty quadrants...

I'm surprised no one has tried to even recreate the models for these, I would love to see the phionex, and the spider

The other three beta colossi - the Roc, the Worm and the devil I have no idea about as the images give me no usable information. There is a uniquely shaped mountain in the background of a Roc image, but as yet I haven't found it. But as to the where the Devil and the Worm lived, I have no clue.

I don't have the skills to do that, I can only work with what's already there, not add new stuff. But I can make pictures of them in Photoshop but beyond that we'd need a 3D model maker, someone adept with Maya for instance.

The Devs of Shadow of the Colossus should make an expansion/remaster and include the 8 cut Colossi, and put them where they were originally going to be. It would solve a lot of the mystery and speculation, and it would possibly improve an already epic game :)

I dont know if anyone noticed this before, im just going to say it. Every time Wander kills a Colossus, part of the colossus, dark part, enter Wander, at the end of the game Wander turns into a shadowy colossus, so he probably takes every part of the colossis he taked to turn ito that shadowy colossus, i noticed that when Wander is a colossus he has some kind of spider legs on his back, does that mean that the spider colossus is still in the game? Only one problem is that Wander never killed the spider colossus so he couldnt absorb the darkness of the colossus so im not so sure about that theory. Maybe game developers just wanted to make him look cooler. One more thing, at the final cut scene we can see that the Emon has the white horse, everyone else has a black horse, when you finish evey mode in the game Agro turns white, maybe Emon defeated some other colossis too?

love this video man! amazing stuff here

No, it just some videos of early trailers etc.

This was awesome... thank you very much for sharing this and your speculations :)

Man this is a great video! So many questions!

I love this channel

Thank you Nomad for making this. You probably read/hear this a lot but wow... Such an amazing thing to find out so many years later... I wonder how you take the spider colossus down :)

That's awesome that they changed the columns in the intro from 24 to 16. Such great attention to the smallest of details. You rarely see that in games.

You're welcome ; )

At 8:50 valus eyes remembered me of the strange images that i saw one day in the colossus's arenas. like in the Barba's arena but i just remembered I don't know if it is really similar. Whatever i liked your video it's really amazing!

And there was another sand worm. If i remember correcly, it was supposed to be fought just after Dirge. It may just be a rumor.

considering the beginning of the game there are at least 5 shadows that come over behind wander before he even goes after any colossi, it's safe to say that maybe someone else defeated the beta colossi (or at least 4 to 5 of them.), but failed to defeat all of them and was likely axed off by valus. But it would be cool if they remake this game again on playstation's next console if they finally add the beta colossi

I've got the art book and there is no image of the Monkey in the cave? Where did you see this image exactly? And what video did you see?

I'd love if a group of people, including you, Nomad, would get together and start designing and making a mod that adds all these colossi and more to the game. It would be so increibly amazing.

666 is widely accepted to mean 'CAESAR NERO' not the 'devil' as most people think. He was the bad guy in those days hence John says 'it is the number of a man'. So there's no significance to this number, same goes with 13.

Really enjoyed this vid.

Nomad you were right about the Monkey being in that cave. I looked at an early art book image and he was climbing around on the ceiling. I also seen a video of them going to the monkey from the Shrine of Worship. That cave was supposed to be we're dirge is but they moved him because it was too small.

That was early Phalanx (13)

There's a lake between Basaran and #10 with dead trees on a cliff near the lake. I noticed it for the first time today. The lake is quite large and is deep enough to swim for most of it. I think that might be where Phoenix was once located.

I don't know why but for the worm it feels like it would be where the underwater serpant is

It's a possibility... After seeing your video, I decided to remember these old pictures that Sony showed to us with some beta colossi, and I found a strange art (probably fan made) wich showed Wander walking with Agro, and some cenobia-size colossi running besides him, without even caring. I got the idea that maybe some colossi were designed to appear at random times, when you're exploring the land or going to another colossus. It'd be really awesome.

Yeah, that image is weird. Not sure if it's an official image or a fan made one. It's not on the NICO dvd or in the art book though.

I kinda wished they released an expansion game with the extra colossi

Phoenix, Spider, Sirius and Monkey shown in this video. Then there is also Griffin (shown in another video, fought with Agro) and the others being named as Demon (a gargoyle-like Colossus whose area looked like a ruin with many broken pillars, where according to a wiki you fought by hiding in the tall grass), Worm (a giant desert worm, enough said) and Roc (a giant bird like Avion but with a long neck, Agro would be with you in this battle).

nomad...you are awesome!

That info is from the SotC wiki - which was mostly made up. The idea that the Spider killed you instantly is found no where else (i.e. not in the official art book), so I don't think it's true.

Yes, but they don't say where this info comes from, all we really know is from the art book. I'd love to know where they got this info about the Worm from.

i remember hearing some where that the worm was supposed show up after a colossus died, but I could be wrong on that

We have the confirmation, the phoenix lived in i7

That's not what the art book says

In the final game, there is an area close Malus' area that is rocky and is like a maze. It is obviously too small for a colossus area but it look kinda like the area in the backround of devil's area, just a thought, though.

I think Shadow of the Colossus on ps2.... I don't remember exactly but, I think there was Phoenix at D3

Could you show us a video of the sirius animations left behind? I would really like to see that

One more thing.... At the intro scene you look up and see an EXTRA five or six columns alined in a circle, and Adar flam was killed by being dunked in a lake and a DRY lake bed... I feel something goin on....

Wow... Hearing about the missing Colossi is almost as eerie as discussing the ones that are there.

I was exited to see some of the cut Colossi in the remake, like Pholux in the secret garden if you waited for 20 minutes. Or Aberth if you would light something in the area, and all of a sudden. I'm not sure that they would have been colossi however, just random monsters in the game.

I'm pretty sure someone has mentioned this or you may have noticed already but I just have to say it anyway. The art book mentions plunging Phoenix into a lake to defeat it. If i'm not mistaken, in the preview version there was a lake where Basaran was sleeping and since you pointed out that the trees in the pictures of Phoenix look almost exactly like the ones in Basaran's area, I think that could almost prove your theory.

Wow man your sense of investigation is awesome you could be a detective!

What I wouldn't give to watch or read an interview between Fumito Ueda and Nomad...so much speculation could finally be cleared up.

this video is blowing my mind

nomad and his awesome speculation things :D

Espero ver mas partes

I would have really like to see these guys in the final game

The video was from the NICO DVD my friend has it and used it over again and found out the monkey around the ceiling. And the art book image was the monkey you used in your vid and placed in dirges cavern which most people say it looks like it would have been there.

This video is VERY outdated lol. But it’s still fun to look back at old theories every now and again since the facts about the beta colossi nowadays are so complicated

well from the picture of it,it looks like it was either in a cave or in a desert which means it could be where dirge is or where phalanx is.

True but if so are any of the areas around the shrine big enough to fight Dionin?judging by the pictures in the art book he was roughly the size of phalanx if not bigger and he burrowed.

I had a dream just like that! Neither were actual colossi from the game, but dreams of giant monsters are always welcome in my head.

id like to see them make some sort of minigame with the 8 colossus that were removed like shadow of the colossus the lost 8 with some new character who heard about what had happened and wanted to see for himself

There is a large area at H7. Possibly part of a collosi lair?

i wish the full 48 were created, when they cut to 24 and then 16 colossi were actually made before all those cuts to the game but the limitations for devs were too much :'(

You know what also interests me?before you leave to fight Basaran, Dormin says, "Thy next foe is.... In the land of blackened earth where trees nary grow.... It sleeps in a DRY LAKE BED... A rude awakening." This makes me think either that Phoenix was to be beaten first so that the lake bed could be dried out (possibly from his flames if possible?) and geysers would burst out, or it's a hint that he was originally supposed to be there.

I always thought that Basaran´s arena was similar to the Phoenix(you wrote Pheonix).About the lake,we didn´t have a like inside the cave?Maybe in the first version there wasn´t a cave there.

I need to find that Artbook.

Lol i always think those spider legs things on the Dormin back was the Aberth legs, because Dormin is made with parts of the colossus.

WOAH GOD WORK ! you make me dreamer xD

They should've put in at least some of the unused Colossi in the remastered version.

Your video was great, but it didn't mention the dragon and the other sand worm. Do you have any theories about them or do you mention them in your other videos?

i loved this game since i first played it. but.... when i explored it........i started to fell sad becouse of the amount of spot for colossi and secrets you could clearly see its a great game but at the same time. so empty

there is these trees near the cenobia 14° colossus and the face of the phoenix you can see

Sorry, forget about the last part. It is a rumor and the plans fot hte sand worm were used in creating Dirge.

if ever comes shadow of the colossus 2 i hope they are there...i feel bad for all colossi.

I know, that's why I think it should be a group of experts in all that stuff, but you need to be there, I love the way you think and admire this game as much as I do... Maybe one day I hope.

No. The only way to get there is to hack the game. But there's nothing there in any case, just empty quadrants.

Also if i counted right there are 24 save points minus the one at the main temple

3 pilastras caidas aí tem coisa eu ainda acredito q tem colossus secretos no game

Fantastic

dude I would have love to have seen that

Thx Nomad :D .. Just wondering, isn't I5 is the place of "the dam" in many other videos?

Amazing! Thanks, your great : D

For me the pheonix was at gaius's place because there is a huge space and you gotta kill him by bringing him to the water and ithere is water on gaius's place and also there is the same tree there too...

Nomad, what does it mean the "Lay 124%" on that image from the artbook?

I don't know if it is real it could be but I'll try and find more details of the image, one more thing those extra columns? For decoration or something else...?

Nomad, you forgot to talk about Dionin

so that's why dormin had spider legs on his back...