"Shonen vs Seinen" Doesn't Matter

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"Shonen vs Seinen" Doesn't Matter

Рет қаралды 6,306

Күн бұрын

If there's one thing that I want you to take away from this video, it's to watch/read what you enjoy and not worry about what others have to say about stuff that makes you happy.
Twitter: / santanaelchan
Patreon: / santanael
List of Music Used: docs.google.co...
#anime #manga #shonen #seinen

Пікірлер: 79

@ArosNacht Жыл бұрын

I'm glad someone finally made a video about the pointless feud of Shonen Vs Seinen

@boris_bulletdodger9109 Жыл бұрын

I don’t believe there is a feud, it’s just Seinen is targeted for adults and Shonen mostly targeted for teenagers.

@robertwesting8776 Жыл бұрын

This is facts, both shonen and seinen have their respective masterpieces and garbage

@hollowsid9623 Жыл бұрын

Finally, someone in the animanga community who actually knows his shit about manga demographics I've seen way too many people comment dumb shit like "Shonen disguised as seinen" and "Seinen only deals with dark themes" while forgetting K-On, My Dress up Darling and Bocchi the Rock exist

@seg162 Жыл бұрын

I've recently heard "dark shounen". As the younger ones say... "I've McFucking had it."

@dugonman8360 5 ай бұрын

I usually take someone's argument and replace it in the context of video game ratings or movie ratings. Here are examples. "Though the dark Knight on its surface seems like a typical PG-13 film, it secretly smuggles many themes, concepts, visual techniques and fleshed out realized characters you'd usually see in R-rated movies." "Nier: automata is a M for Mature game disguised as a T for Teen game. It entices you with its simple trappings of its T for Teen tropes and world building but then dives head deep into the deep philosophical and nature themes you'd usually only find in the M for Mature genre." Did those two statements sound exceedingly dumb? They should!

@gebhartattack Жыл бұрын

On the subject of "meaningless labels", I had no idea I was depriving myself by not having seen a sports anime until 2020. The team losing their big match at the end of season 1 was a more emotional punch than what most seinen manga try to accomplish by being cartoonishly evil, like you said with Punpun.

@johnlastname8752 Жыл бұрын

People totally missing the point of Monster is so frustrating.

@TheJokersAreWild Жыл бұрын

Just mentioning the iron giant still messes me up. When I was little I cried a lot at the end and since I was so young and had only watched Disney VHS tapes until then, that was the first movie made me feel such strong emotions like that. Crazy how that stuff sticks with you.

@mikai4738 Жыл бұрын

I already found it annoying when some people treated Shonen and Seinen like they are genres and not demographics what they actually are - but reducing Shonen to Weekly Shonen Jump work and Seinen can only be serious stuff like Berserk or Monster is just dumb. Like Yuru Camp is a Seinen, K-On is also a Seinen. Both are girls only main casts and them chilling with camping or their band.

@thomasffrench3639 Жыл бұрын

Thank you. A way better way to categorize these manga is based on the magazine, because a lot of these magazines are targeting a specific audience, so if you like one of the series in the magazine, there might be some others you’ll also like. And Seinen is weird ultra violent Seinen people talk about is not as common as the battle Shonen that they are often compared to, which is really annoying

@dugonman8360 5 ай бұрын

That's the main reason why the entire "shonen vs Seinan" argument is essentially "I'm a grown-up who wears big boy pants" juvenile dribble. I seen this kind of argument and sentiment destroy the comic book industry, where the pretentious prattle of insecure men outweighs the sincere expressions of adventure and manly action. Seen this destroy the cartoon industry where the only adult animation in the west is juvenile weed, sex and fart jokes, and I'd rather that kind of pathetic argument to stop in the anime fandom. The anime fandom is toxic and filled with idiots but I'd genuinely prefer it if there was less of this.

@oleksandrbyelyenko435 Жыл бұрын

My first manga was a Josei. Petshop of Horrors. Count D is amazing protagonist. Any character there is great. The story is engaging. It is still one of my favourites. And looking at people arguing what's better, while they just could read good stories just suck for them.

@AbstractInhuman 7 ай бұрын

Josei is such an obscure manga demographic that it makes me more interested in reading those mangas. I gotta check out Pet Shop of Horrors now.

@rainspectre3153 Жыл бұрын

My favourite fact about the Gekiga movement is that Ashita no Joe ended up being co-opted by literal left-wing terrorist organization the United Red Army, with them even hosting a full funeral with an actual Buddhist priest and a real boxing ring for Rikishi after he was killed off. This is real.

@davidlupascu7333 Жыл бұрын

Most cute girls doing cute things manga are seinen(Yuru Camp,Bocchi the Rock,My dress up darling,K-on,Girls und Panzer,etc) Most manly anime are shonen(Jojo parts 1-6,Hajime no Ippo,Fist of the north star,Golden Kamui,etc) I hate the fact that people confuse demographics with genres.

@thomasffrench3639 Жыл бұрын

I think that there’s a lot of problems when manga gets translated overseas, because we don’t have many magazines for comics. Yeah you have 2000 AD, but most comics are distributed through either volumes or monthly separate issues. But manga is sold by volumes, so you don’t really know the magazine of each manga except maybe Shonen Jump, so we “consider” certain series to belong to that demographic or not, not what they actually are. And each magazine creates their own catalog that is diverse enough to draw new people in, keep others, and just add some variety so it doesn’t get stale. So we don’t understand the nuances of different magazines, so we have certain preconceptions on what we define shonen to be. Also Violence Jack is a shonen, so it’s a dumb classification anyways.

@jamesbrick250 9 ай бұрын

The difference was, Seinen doesn't have limitations of what they can do/show/tell. Thus, editorial interference was minimal. But Shonen have limitations on what they can do/show/tell to an extent, which is why editors tend to have minor/major influences (known or alleged) in the series they're in charge of. So the chances of editorial interference is higher. But the manga authors can't speak about because they're being contracted by the publishers. It's the same thing applies to Shojo and Josei. Shojo is the female counterpart of Shonen. While Josei is the female counterpart of Seinen. The known editorial interference as I know of is the series X/1999 (made by creators of Cardcaptor Sakura), it's basically a Shojo interpretation of Devilman. It was published in Shojo magazine. But the gore and violence in the manga was too much for the magazine to the point X/1999 was being halted three times and then it went infinite hiatus since 2003. We may never get to see the ending of a refined version of Devilman. Had if X/1999 was published in Josei magazine, it would have been smooth sailing. The issue is, the publisher (Josei) did not have a Seinen/Josei based mangazine at that time.

@dugonman8360 5 ай бұрын

It depends on the magazine it's being published in. The main reason why Attack on Titan wasn't in Weekly Shonen Jump was A) the art, and B) Shonen Jump at the time was trying to steer less towards dark and more towards light hearted but deep fantasy epics due to how big One Piece was. When you say Shonen battle manga, what you actually mean is Shonen Jump battle manga since that's where these types of manga are published in. The truth isn't that hard to figure out. It's easy to decipher.

@jamesbrick250 5 ай бұрын

@@dugonman8360 It wasn't just Shonen Jump magazine (Shueisha) that displayed a lot of Battle Shonen. There's a lot of publishers that are doing it. Weekly Shonen Magazine (Kodansha), Weekly Shonen Sunday (Shogakukan), Monthly Comic Garden (Mag Garden), Monthly Shonen Gangan (Square Enix) etc. Don't act like Weekly Shonen Jump is the only magazine that makes Battle Shonen. It's just the one that people (Normies) thought if they never put their head into manga stuffs. The only difference between all of Shonen magazines was the target market/demographic they marketed towards. Weekly Shonen Magazine targeted towards generally teenage boys in 12 or older. Bessatsu Shonen Magazine (Attack on Titan) targeted teenage boys in 15 or older. Even though both are basically Kodansha's Shonen magazines. I could give you another example. Weekly Shonen Jump targeted teenage boys in 12 or older. Jump Square (D Gray Man) targeted male audiences from 12 to 20s. Shonen Jump Plus (Spy x Family, Chainsaw Man, Kaiju No 8, Hell's Paradise) targeted male audiences from 12 to 30s. Even though 3 of them are Shueisha's Shonen magazines.

@Dash_ishere Жыл бұрын

Wealth , Fame , Power My op addicted brain: time to start from scratch again

@DavineTube Жыл бұрын

Thank goodness I was exposed to the internet anime community way late in life, I could enjoy my teenage years reading whatever without worrying about appearances. I gathered towards some not very kid friendly stuff, even back then I was crazy in love with Bebop, Eva and Berserk, but I still kept up with Naruto and Bleach weekly and talked about it with my classmates with no shame. Elitism wasn't a thing offline. Now as a 32 yo I can enjoy both my Tezuka historical drama and Black Clover at the same time depending on my mood and I enjoy both greatly. As a teacher I strongly recommend my students to read a ton of manga and comics as optional homework, even stuff I don't like anymore (again, Naruto and Bleach) because it's still perfect for their age. I've personally seen adult ass comic book store owners recommending gekiga to teenagers because "Demon Slayer is bad and it rots your brain", boomers are such a pain. Leave teens alone dude. (Btw nice surprise Fata Morgana music there, got me by surprise)

@FiniteMan1933 Жыл бұрын

Probably the dumbest way to choose what manga to read, genres are one thing(horror, sports or psychological etc) but picking based on DEMOGRAPHICS!? That's some room temperature IQ activity

@Kromiball 4 ай бұрын

12:56 KAMEN RIDER MENTIONED!!

@silver4809 Жыл бұрын

Great video, I'd love a more in depth explanation as to why you dislike punpun.

@Santanael Жыл бұрын

It had a lot of stuff going for it that I found interesting. Asano's art is genuinely beautiful and even if they're just touched up photographs, I really enjoyed all the background art as well. Some of the characters were written real well, I remember liking the Uncle, the one trucker kid kid with black hair and a hat, and the snot nosed kid. I know Asano was trying to have Punpun be a cautionary tale of how you shouldn't live your life, and that you weren't supposed to look at Punpun and go "Wow he's literally me!" But God, they make Punpun SUFFER throughout the series bro. Between being assaulted, the family issues, EVERYTHING involving Aiko, and much more that I can't remember off the top of my head, once Punpun became an adult the amount of shenanigans the world threw at him became comical. Having a character suffer is fine, it's part of life, that's how it be. It's just that it felt like Punpun was CONSTANTLY being bombarded to the point where it genuinely made me laugh when I read it in High School. Maybe as an adult my feelings would be different, but I dunno.

@isbejeheihe454 Жыл бұрын

@@Santanael yeah, I like pun pun but they kinda did start throwing anything at him

@ameryaser3987 Жыл бұрын

this video convinced me to give monster a try

@Byrdstar6423-un3me 6 ай бұрын

Really irks me and makes me cringe when people mock other series for not being as dark as Berserk and being annoyed they don't have the same messed up things Berserk does

@amatspurpose3741 Жыл бұрын

when that pizza time music hit i knew it would be a good video

@piedralisk7 Жыл бұрын

based not caring about what a manga is labeled as and just enjoying it for what it is enjoyer

@Quv1 4 ай бұрын

11:46 I’m actually shocked he hasn’t consumed AOT

@bornanime3255 Жыл бұрын

That Pun Pun section had me cackling😂😂😂

@notsostealthmission5184 Ай бұрын

PunPun is the Japanese version of bojack horseman

@ralphfi9591 Жыл бұрын

What are your thoughts on the countless youtube videos about Shonen Vs Seinen? Most of the time, as you might know already, favor Seinen. One of the points being that it doesn't rely on overly-used tropes that is common in Shonen Anime/Manga.

@Santanael Жыл бұрын

You also gotta remember that there's overused tropes in Seinen too my brother. I've read so many seinen that fall back on sexual assault, "mankind is the real animals", and just wax poetic without saying anything meaningful. At the same time, I've also read amazing seinen that stick with me and have meaningful things they wanna say. It all depends really, there's both good and bad for any demographic of manga. In terms of the videos, I just ignore them LMAO

@ralphfi9591 Жыл бұрын

Well said, brother. There are goods and bads for each genre and demographic. About the videos, I asked that becuase it seems that I, at least once in a day, get suggested a video about "Why is Seinen protag beats every Shonen protag" or "Why Seinen triumphs over Shonen". It is just annoying to me not bcoz I hate Seinen but the videos kinda give off a elitist vibe. As if they're saying, "Listen, kid I have been where you are now and soon you will be joining me in the Seinen bandwagon"

@AbstractInhuman 7 ай бұрын

You know the demographic labels don't always matter when you find out K-On is a seinen.

@mana5673 Жыл бұрын

does anybody agree with me, that monster is overrated? there's so many clichés & tropes and the ways some characters are woven into the plot is done so clumsily (take the lawyer dude and his father, for example). i had the same issue when i read 20th century boys. both manga just feel very hollywood-inspired, but in a very bland way

@Santanael Жыл бұрын

Personally I loved Monster, specifically characters like Tenma and Grimmer. I never got da Hollywood vibe from his works that I've read, but I guess it depends on the person

@mana5673 Жыл бұрын

@@Santanael fair enough, i do see the appeal in the story and it definitely had good moments. i did like the dynamic between grimmer and tenma

@nosfonader8792 Жыл бұрын

A prime example of Shonen being mature and adult, depending on who you ask, is Evangelion and Death Note. They are in thr same demographic as Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Bleach and JuJutsu Kaisen. Let that sink in

@thomasffrench3639 Жыл бұрын

I would say that One Piece is way more mature from a storytelling and worldview compared to Death Note. Death Note is just a fun thriller without much to say.

@Mario-bl5ud 6 ай бұрын

Evangelion is an original series. It's not a shounen or seinen.

@TECH_DROP1 11 ай бұрын

love anime in both kind

@Strangerthingsupdates100 Жыл бұрын

Fax

@YungBoiye Жыл бұрын

they both good!

@Themrsnappyify Жыл бұрын

use jerma green screens

@dugonman8360 5 ай бұрын

I have explained to people, time and again, in their insecurity and desperate need to show that they are smart and mature in their taste for chinese backwards books, they have made themselves sound immensely stupid. Shonen and seinan are not genres, they are demographics and what they perceive to be the shonen genre is more accurately weekly shonen jump manga. Arguing about shonen and seinan is akin to arguing about PG-13 movies and R-rated movies. With that in mind, if you heard anyone saying "Indiana Jones is the father of the PG-13 genre." "Paul Atreides is a pg-13 protagonist stuck in an R-rated world" "The dark knight might be a pg-13 film but uses a lot of the trappings, themes and techniques utilized in R-rated films." If I said all this, would you think I was a n overcompensating moron or not?

@stefanoiulli5462 5 ай бұрын

Kodomo Manga = G-Rated Movies Shonen/Shoujo = PG-Rated Movies (Like Inside Out) Seinen/Josei = PG-13 Rated Movies It's Doesen't exist a Manga Demographic Equivalent to the R-rating for Movies Because Most of Seinen Manga are Just Cute Girls Going Cute Stuffs or Slice of Life Without Strong Swearing

@dugonman8360 5 ай бұрын

@@stefanoiulli5462 those are still not genres, they're target demographics or content ratings. Furthermore, Shonen is moreso PG-13 and Seinan moreso R because, and this is a big secret no one talks about, Seinan and R-rated movies tend to deal with subject matter that would bore a kid to tears but an adult could enjoy. This all feels like insecurity and arrested development. If that's the case, read an actual book like Lolita or Blood Meridian or the unbearable lightness of being rather than picture books.

@stefanoiulli5462 4 ай бұрын

@@dugonman8360 so Kaguya sama, Houkago Teibo Nisshi and Crayon shin chan are All R-Rated Seinen.

@dugonman8360 4 ай бұрын

@@stefanoiulli5462 yup, just as Breakfast Club, Billy Elliot and Fanny and Alexander are R rated movies. Meanwhile million dollar baby, Amadeus, inception, fallout, interstellar, these heralded dramas are all PG-13. Content ratings don't mean anything. They aren't genres, they are simply descriptors.

@stefanoiulli5462 4 ай бұрын

@@dugonman8360 Doesn't matter who buys a DvD With R in the Back of the Cover but The Manga Demographic it has nothing to do with it Content Ratings nor With the Genre. Seinen/Shonen is not the same as R/PG13 ratings, everyone can read anything. The actual demographic matching with the given label of shonen/seinen is not a criteria for the label itself, Shonen Doesen't Mean Only for Teenagers no Children, A Few Shounen Would be likely Comparable With a G-rated Movie instead of PG-13 or E for Everyone if Where Videogames, Repeat it the second time, Shonen/Seinen are not Genre nor Content Rating.

@mazdak5165 Жыл бұрын

how is using one piece as an example of shounen "cherry picking" when it's literally considered one of the best shounen of all time?

@Santanael Жыл бұрын

One Piece is the poster child of Shonen, you right! It's just that I always see people use One Piece as an example of a kiddy shonen (it's not! it can get pretty dark!) and the juxtaposition it with the gritty, more mature looking Berserk. Dis video ain't an attack on the quality of any manga (maybe Punpun) but instead me saying that demographics don't matter: if the manga is good, it's good!

@mazdak5165 Жыл бұрын

@@Santanael that's true, just wanna clarify that this video is really good too, my only problem is using corny romcoms to show that seinen is just a demographic doesn't really work since shounen also has more than its fair share of corny romcoms too. people know what you mean when you say "seinen" or "shounen" so it just seems irrelevant to point it out more than once

@Santanael Жыл бұрын

@@mazdak5165 that's fair criticism!

@DavineTube Жыл бұрын

One Piece gets such a bad rep because of how long it's been around, with many people thinking it's just Oda beating a dead horse (just look at all the memes) when it's the exact opposite and the length is what makes it so rich and special. I too believed that before finally getting around and reading 1050+ chapters in a row. But these people don't care and won't ever read past the first chapters, and use it as an example of what makes shonen bad.

@MANGAKA__13 8 ай бұрын

@@DavineTubepeople are just stupid

@happycat4838 7 ай бұрын

I think this a more recent thing. I've been into manga since the early 2000's, and in America, we all just read everything. I can still go from a dark, gritty seinen like Azumi, to a bubbly, magical girl manga like Sailor Moon, to a tournament battler shounen like Flame of Recca and enjoy them all. Elitism is just a form of insecurity.

@inventor4279 Жыл бұрын

"you know i really like this video from this guy, i might just even subscribe" >pun pun is bad aight pal, listen, i let you cook too hard, you burnt it, and im dissapointed

@Santanael Жыл бұрын

Hey if ya like it all da more power to ya bro, it just ain't click with me

@inventor4279 Жыл бұрын

@@Santanael hey i understand not liking it but like HOMEBOY CMOOOON, YOU CANT JUST SAY THAT SHIT AND EXPECT US TO LET IT SLIDE LIKE BRUH, i fucking hate one piece, but i would never say its bad, just wasnt for me

@oleksandrbyelyenko435 Жыл бұрын

13:59 what's there? "I've watched 500 shows"? Well, I watched 650. Man... Dick measurements are fun, right? Quality is better than quantity. And as a person who watched shit tone of anime, I can say that at least half of them were bad.