Hey I really admire your passion and how much you love to share what you do. I just want to share my bit: you did right but only addressed the first half of process. So let's go by steps!: 1) You expose for the darkest areas where you want to save some details. As we know the shadows end up pretty thin on film and below a given density all details are lost. So you did right, point your spot meter on the darkest area for which you anyway want to save some details, do a reading (say f5.6@1/15) and close a couple of stops (say you end up with f5.6@1/60), this should put your darkest spot in zone 3, the first density zone where details are caught on film 2) now you have to "develop for the highlights", which basically means finding the right development in order to save details in the highlights as well. For this it is crucial that you understand the difference between "place" and "fall". In step 1 you correctly "place" the darkest area in zone 3, determining the right exposure set (f5.6@1/60), this means that all areas where you actually read f5.6@1/60 with your spot meter will "fall" in zone 5 (remember, your spot meter always read mid-grey), all areas where you read f5.6@1/250 will "fall" in zone 7 and all areas where you read f5.6@1/500 will fall in zone 8. Highlights are much less problematic to render than shadows but anyway I usually don't want anything meaningful in my frame to "fall" beyond zone 8. So, say you want to save the details in the shadows but save also the details in a beautiful cloud in the sky, you take a reading of the cloud so to know where it will fall with a standard development time. Say you read f5.6@1/500, this means it will fall in zone 8, still perfectly printable. Say you read f5.6@1/1000, it will fall in zone 9 respecting standard development time, so you under-develop to shrink a bit the density range and get the cloud in zone 8. Suppose it is a very dull day where you read f5.6@1/125 for the sky, in this case it will fall just in zone 6 and you could over-develop a bit to expand the density range and put the sky in zone 7. The important bit to understand here is that development only controls the mid and especially the highlights, the shadows are not or very little affected by changes in the development process. This means that any shadow that is not recorded at exposure time is lost. To really follow this method you should expose single sheets of film and register for each one the right development for the highlights (N, or N+1 or N-1,...). This is what Ansel Adams did. With a medium format camera like yours you could still achieve a good result using more backs. All this is explained in great details in the Adams book "The Negative". If you don't meter your highlights, you basically just "expose for the shadows" which is anyhow all you can do if you just have one back, at least you save your details there, you can still somehow control your highlights during the print process. Sorry for the long post, I hope it is of some help. Anyway again a great video of yours, keep shooting like a boss!

Thanks everyone for you kind comments, encouraging words and wisdom. Much appreciated. Great community here with a mixed combined level of knowlwdge and experience. Awesome!

Zone System - multiple books (including all three of Ansel Adams) and websites later, with much experimentation, light meters, on camera and off. Conclusions - Ansel Adams was shooting large format, it records greater detail, it takes a singular shot in those lighting conditions and you develop that singular negative, try applying this to roll film and you are sunk, totally Titaniced, unless its the same scene on a grey day where the sky is a consistent grey. The zone system is a consistent sliding scale of the scene before you, you lighten the shadows, then you're lightening the sky as well, you darken the sky then you're darkening the shadows. The greater the light contrast in a scene the greater the chance of blowing out the sky and/or crushing the blacks. I think you've a better chance when shooting roll film by trying to average out your exposure by using a wider light meter setting across all shots on that roll. Ansel Adams was a great photographer with a large format camera, but he was more an expert in darkroom jiggery-pokery than he was at producing a roll of well exposed 35mm film negatives. Sorry if this is heresy and I've taken Ansel Adams' name in vain but I don't see how applying a singlular set of 'rules' to all types of photography and then scratching your head when it doesn't work makes much sense. Neither do I think Ansel Adams intended this to be the case, he kept well away from discussing roll film.

I learned the ZS from Adams books and used it for 20years. My day job in the 70s was working at the National Geographic photo lab and a side gig teaching photography so I understand the technical side of things better than the average bear 😊 The simplest way to “Expose for the Shadows” with a spot meter is do this test: spot meter Zone 2 - first texture - shadow in a crosslit sunny scene. Bracket by lowering the ISO setting on the meter about three stops lower which changes the meter calibration value from 18% gray to Zone 2; e.g. set meter to 50 if using ISO 400 film. Look at the shadow densities on the negatives and test prints then use the ISO of the frame with perfectly the Zone 0/ 1 / 2 exposed shadow from that point on. Spot meters had not been invented when St. Ansel brought his grayscale stone tablet down from the mountain. He was forced to meter of an 18% card. The book then said to do the same bracket test adjusting the TRUE film speed and looking at neg and prints until the 0/1/2 shadows on them were optimal with just enough exposure to make the borders of the neg max. black on the print. I quickly realized using a spot meter eliminated all the “interpret from Zone V” nonsense by simply changing the calibration value of the meter from 18%/Zone V to the darker Zone 2 by lowering ISO. It is also possible to shift calibration on most modern meters with a calibration adjustment of around -3 stops. Zones ARE NOT f/stop they are tonal values on the print where 0 = max black obtained with min. enlarger exposure and 10 = white paper base WHICH IS ONLY USED ON THE PRINT TO REPRODUCE THE SPECULAR HIGHLIGHTS. Smooth white objects must be reproduced as Zone 9 light gray to preserve the PERCEPTION of 3D shape in the highlights. For example shooting a white car the body of the car would be reproduced Zone 9 (light gray) and the paper base with no exposure / silver reproducing the Zone 10 reflections of the sun on the white hood. When you wrap your head around that you’ll understand what St. Ansel was trying to teach the masses who would wash out the highlights and illusion of 3D on prints by using the paper base to represent the white hood, in the process killing the speculars that create the perception of 3D in a 2D rendering. Painters under stand this intutively. Water color painting is like photo prints where the paper base must be reserved for specular reflections. In oil and acrylic media dots of white paint are used (a trick that can be employed in photoshop to add fake 255 specular highlights in white objects reproduced at 245-250 With sheet film the EV range of the scene was used to know how long to develop the NEGATIVE to fit the range of the paper based on Adams’ goal of ALWAYS PRINTING ON #2 PAPER. That bespoke development based on scene lighting conditions isn’t practical on roll film but a reading the EV range from Z2 TO Z9 can be used to know in advance what Polycontrast filtering will be needed when printing, what I did most of the time using my color enlarger head to dial in the exact Yellow/Magenta CC values. If scanning your negatives develop negatives from a clear crosslit sunny day to fit its range just as Adams defined his NORMAL development to match that sunny scene to #2 grade paper. As a baseline for the scanner find the development time which will fit a cross-lit sunny scene onto the histogram of the scan in Photoshop. Then for lighting with less contrast - cloudy, overcast, etc. you can adjust the file from the scanner with a Levels or Curves adjustment. After getting into the habit of metering Zone 2 detail then Zone 9 non specular white highlights you will be able to realize the EV ranges just by the lighting and realize the exposures are about the same as predicted by the Sunny 16 (1/ISO @ f/16) rule and chart because the sun is consistent everywhere. I doubt Adams actually had to meter to determine exposure and development time but made a ritual out of it to teach those who didn’t yet have that experience and sell books. He bracketed exposures and did a lot of dodging and burning on his prints to selectively change print value Zones after first using negative development to produce a full range from max. black to preserving the specular reflection on white objects. It was a common practice to keep a yellow filter on the lens outdoors at all times because B&W is more sensitive to blue and near-UV than human vision so skies in photos without the filter would always wind up too light and overexposed compared to how they look by eye. Adams’ iconic photos of Yosemite with dark brooding skies making the highlighted rocks contrast more were the result of using a red, orange and yellow filters at capture. Green, yellow and blue were used to make foliage appear lighter than it actually was.

Adding a comment to a fairly old video so I am not sure you will see it. You helped me realize why I like using 35mm cameras with spot metering capabilities, especially with B&W film. I have an OM-4T and a Canon T-90, both with multi-spot metering, but the Olympus has dedicated highlight and shadow metering buttons. The shadow metering button is perfect to use like you do in this video. The 2 stop shift from the metered reading is built into the exposure control for both highlight and shadow. I have not used it this way but this video has me planning to try a roll this way. The other kit I have acquired lately are a set of Contax 35mm cameras (RX, 167MT & RTS II). These all have AEL switches on them that really lend themselves and their spot metering to this approach of exposing for the shadows. I am now planning a series of shots to explore some of these same techniques. While I have not owned an enlarger for a number of decades, I am planning to set up my Canon 100 inkjet for B&W printing to see if I can get close to the quality of some of your images. If not, I may have to consider building a darkroom again! Cheers!

Great work here on zone system. I will say you’re half way there. You’re right in exposing for the shadows and moving the zones from the metered to the zone you would like that tone placed in. The bit you’re missing Is to confirm the placement of your highlight. Black and white film has about 7 stops of dynamic range (prints about 5). If you’re highlight is 7 stops difference, no need for compensation. If it’s more than 7, less development is required. If it’s less than 7 and you want to add contrast, more development is required to push the highlight further.

Hi, if your placing your exposure at zone 3 the problem is the highlight exposure could be 10 stops difference and you preferably want your highlights in zone 8 or 9, there is no zone 13, Graduated Filters solve this problem, Neutral Density, Tobbacco, anything that brings your highlight exposure down. You can't use them for everything but you can for situations where you have a clear distinction between highlight and shadow areas in say a landscape, seascape etc

Nice job! you are on the right path..zone system is much easier than it seems. buuuuut you need to find your own film speed. Box speed is just an advised time which works good when the scene is not contrasty. Basicly the reason for that is that manufacturers think that the majority of people don't do zone system, so they expose looking for middle gray on the scene and overdevelop a little. The real film speed has to be found (but usually you can consider it to be about half box speed for normal or high contrast). Yuor negatives seem to be still a little bit underexposed but you are getting there :). Make some simple test but probably on those kind of scenes you could still expose more (I think one stop is enough) and then developing maybe a little less, but you'll find a better developing time with experience. Cheers!

Hello Roger, for what I understand it's like pull the film, and works better for large format, because you develop the pictures one by one. If you put your shadows in zone 4 and then develop - 2 or - 3 stops depending on the dynamic range of the scene. Big hug mate 👍

Hi Roger, I'm learning the zone system too. My understanding is the development time will need to change depending on the range of tones. For example if your meter reads the shadow and highlights between a 5 stop range (zone 3-7) that is considered normal development or (N) if it reads more or less than 5 stops you will need to adjust your developing times to compact (N-1) or expand (N+1) to 5 stop or zone range. That is hard to do on a single roll of film as each negative might require different development time.

This has been the video I’ve been waiting for. It’s always difficult to read these systems designed for large format single development systems, but more modern chemicals and emulsions mean us medium format roll guys can take advantage more than we thought.

After taking your shadow reading you should also read the brightest highlight where you want to retain some tone. The two readings then give you your brightness range. e.g. if your shadow is EV11 (a Zone III) and your highlight is EV17 (a Zone IX) then the highlight should produce a printable tone with "normal" development. Development time will hardly affect the shadow, but reduce it by approx 20% and the Zone IX will drop to ZVIII or increase it by 20% and Zone IX will go up to ZX. The first thing you need to fix is your "normal" dev time - use a grey card - expose it to Zone iX and pick a dev time then print at the films base black + fog (using clear film). If the print is too bright, reduce dev - if it's too dark, increase dev. Easy peasy. Have fun Rog!

Ansel is the real guru on this stuff, but he was trying to find a way to get a negative that would print on standard grade papers. With split tone printing you can essentially have absolute control over the contrast. With a roll film camera you can’t easily develop for the highlights for each frame. For me I shoot for the shadows but then control the contrast in the print for the highlights. Not an Ansel but it works. If I have a whole roll of one subject then I might decrease the development by one or two stops depending. Good luck , great subject. Charlie

Best Zone System explanation on the net ever ! Congrats x 1000000000 !

For a complete understanding of the zone system, you would need to read “ The negative “ by Ansel Adams, or “ Way beyond monochrome “ Lambrecht, and Woodhouse. This is an excellent book which I think is the bible of monochrome photography. Both books delve into sensitometry, It just depends how far you want to go, and I think sometimes it’s best to go the fun way, and find out for yourself by trial and error. After all many of Ansel Adams negatives required dodging and burning.

I’m right down this metering rabbit hole at the moment too! Check out Nick Carver and his precision metering method. As a result I’ve just backed the Kickstarter for the new Reveni Labs Spot Meter. Great work again, sir, and thank you for your passion.

Hi Roger, great content as always. The zone system is based on a concept of previsualition of a scene and how you want it to look when printed on your enlarger. First you need to find what your Exposure index is for a given film using your camera, your meter and your developer and agitation method. Once you have determined what that is through film testing this would be your normal or N development time for that film with that equipment. From there you can pick any important area in a scene and determine what zone you want it to fall on. Then you can meter where your shadows and highlights will fall to determine if you need to underdevelop to contract a contrasty scene Normal -1 or 2 to hold back the highlights or overdevelop to expand a low contrast scene N+1 or 2. It is more geared to sheet film then roll film as each scene may require a deviation from your normal development time. I am by no means an expert so please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of the zone system. This is a very basic explanation but hope it helps. Fred Pickers zone VI workshop is the best resource i have read and well worth investing in a copy.

I learned plenty about light !!! Thank you. RS. Canada

Sent you a Sekonic? Nice guy. That’s a valuable meter.

You had the right idea on under developing, but you didn't also overexpose which goes hand in hand with that technique. When I look at your developed prints, those areas you metered in the shadows mostly end up black and the whole shot is overly contrasty. The whole reason for doing this is this technique is to compensate for the already huge dynamic range (contrast) between highlights and shadows. You should have shift that HP5+ ISO400 down to ISO 200 or even ISO 100 (pulled) which would have overexposed your shots by 1 or 2 stops, then underdeveloped. This would have given your shadows some detail and then by underdeveloping not overblown your highlights.

In the end, some who knows what he's been doing and saying on analogue photography. So many nonsense and half-arse photographers out there, who shoot film, have it developed in a lab, and then scan and retouch them on Photoshop; then pretend as the film shooter cool guys... oh my... I learnt in old days, but no longer shoot film. For the first time, I enjoyed someone's video on analogue photography while watching. All my memories and old knowledge were refreshed.

Thank you for the video and sharing your experience! From my experience, I try to do as much as possible already during the shooting. When the sky is overcast but bright it is hard to get details in the clouds. A ND grade filter to darken the sky helps wonders. Yes, a yellow 1 could help as well but affetcts the complete photograph. BTW, for anyone shooting digital as well, there it is called "Expose To The Right (ETTR)" and refers to shifting the exposure histogram curve to the right during the shot and then fixing it in lightroom. Doing it in the digital world first helped me understanding it in film photography later.

If you meter your shadow and highlights where you want detail you will know how many stops your film will have to cover. Pick an exposure in between and if your film can handle that range then you don’t need to pull the film. Just develop normally. If the range is too great then expose to protect the shadows and pull the development to protect the highlights. This works only if the entire roll has similar exposures but in most cases the film can cover the necessary spread of values. If not then decide on a shot by shot basis whether to protect the highlights or shadows.

Love the channel, remember the shadows develop in the first half of the time, so gives you half the time to adjust for your highlights. 10% or 20% normally does it for me on 8x10

I understand that your summary is to measure the darkest area in which we want to preserve detail and then reveal 30% less than indicated by the developer? I already used the metering issue since I started using my fantastic spot meter from Reveni Labs, but the detail of developing is something new for me. Little by little fine-tuning the details. Thank you very much. Your channel is fantastic!!!

I was going to say what Marco said but he did a great job explaining it. The key is to also meter the highlights and know where they fall and that determines development time. Also using a developer that is good for this work.

I've spent years in the darkroom chasing my tail as it were. Older films had thicker emulsions that responded more readily to varying development times and dilution. You'll also find far better results using a "cold light" enlarger head if you're currently using a point light source. I switched to digital and have gone down the rabbit hole of digital printing. It's not better, just different and far less time consuming. I still keep all my old darkroom equipment in my attic just in case. And my old darkroom is now a woodshop. Another expensive pursuit. By the way, I appreciate the great quality of your videos, well thought out and edited.

If the highlights in your sky are just a tad too bright, you might like to consider fogging slightly the upper part of your paper (the sky area). To do this, you make your calculated exposure with the enlarger as usual, then remove the negative and burn in the sky area for a second or two - you must make a test strip for this of course. This technique tucks in skies rather neatly… Ansel Adams would often ‘fog’ his paper in this way to eliminate all traces of pure white.

Even using the zone system Ansel Adams always worked on his prints. Good experiment though and nice images.

HAHAHAHA The Bionic Man reference... I had that doll and the Fembot and The Bionic Woman.

I believe you would need to measure the highlights as well, and use that to figure out how much to adjust the development time to get the highlights to a lower value in the zone system.

You dark room technique is great I wish I could do that.

If you are using the Zone System to expose for roll film where you want to expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights, you are limited to developing the whole film for the benefit of 1 frame. Unless, you cut your film up before developing and expose the pieces separately. I shoot a Fuji GSW690 camera which yields 8 images on a roll of 120 film. If I want to think of this as being like two pieces of sheet film, then I expose the first 3 frames (say bracket the exposure of something), shoot frames 4 and 5 knowing that 1 of those frames will be wasted because one of them will be cut in half. And then I can shoot the last 3 frames of something else with a different intended development adjustment. The 120 film is 32" long, so if you cut it at approximately 16" you will have 2 pieces of film that can be developed for different lengths of time, i.e. adjusted for different highlights. I have a 16" cutting board, and (in dark conditions) I attach the end of the film with a bulldog clip to one end of the cutting board and cut the film at the other end of the cutting board. The 2 pieces of film can then be developed separately. You can use the same developer for each half of the film. It's a bit fiddly, but if the images are important enough to you, it can be done.

Well despite the failure of the result with the sky, try a yellow filter, it was the best video I have watched on the Zone System. This is because you are one of only two persons to make the point that you do develop for the highlights to compress the contrast range. I thought you would have reduced the development time by 40% not 30%. However, I am not a fan of the Zone s System at all. That said, if I was, I would be playing around with the Planliegend development method, just a thought. Thank you for a rather better than average video on the subject. Personally, I generally prefer incident light metering for most scenes. TTL metering for fast moving things like rock concerts (using exposure compensation) and only occasionally do I think the Zone System is appropriate. On the sky issue, you could use a graduated filter. Anything that makes printing easier is a good thing.

Go back at it with split grading. You will get your sky. Notice how the one you did with no filter started to get information in the sky. I think the 2 1/2 filter was holding it back. Nice plug for the daughter.

As most people have already commented. This method is best understood using sheet film. However, from my own experience, you are better off placing your darkest shadows at Zone 4 ( instead of 3 which you were placing ) then cut down the development time by 50%. It is better also to use diluted developers ( ie Rodinal 1:50) so you instead of let’s say 20 min developing time you give it 10 min. What it is amazing then is your negs will become very thin and you may not see some of the details there on them at first! But the details are there. Once on the light table or into the enlarger you will see all the highlights!

I must admit, Zone System steers me to insanity at times.

Very useful explanation, mate. Skies seem to be an issue with expose for highlights. Why not try a grad filter on the lens?

This is the first view of your KZfaq Channel, and I am very impressed! This video was full of information and learning for me. Your video and viewers' comments added up to a wealth of knowledge. Thank you so much. I mainly shoot 4x5 and medium format (Mamiya RB67) and have been having the same problem in the Darkroom printing with having to burn the heck out of my skis (highlights while shadows are fairly decent with detail. I have been spot metering for darkest area that I want detail and increasing exposure 2 and sometimes 2.5-3 stops but usually skies need to be burned. I usually start printing with a #2 contrast filter and I find if I drop it to a #1 or 1&1/2 filter I am able to get a little more detail in the sky

Hi, another nice video, thank you! I'am a quite a newbie of darkroom and analog photography techniques, so I am not in the position to give any lessons.... Anyway, I am studying the Zone System ad as far as I learned so far, and as someone else already pointed out, to make things work properly you have to consider the true speed of the film, that usually is slower than box speed. HP5 true speed should be around 200-250 ISO. Placing the shadows in zone III using box speed will result in underexposure. Once you have taken care of the shadows with correct exposure the highlights can be adjusted with development; in case of high contrast scenes you can contract the contrast with less developement (reduced time, temperature or agitation), and conversely you can expand it with more development.

Learning the Zone system myself, interesting Video. It was originally created for large format where you could control exactly what the exposure and development time was. I have just purchased a Bronica SQ-Ai to explore this more, I suppose the images need to be taken on the same day with the same conditions for the development to work? Great learning with you Rodger

I’m a little late on this video, but it’s your developer blowing out your highlights you should try a compensating developer. I like to use D76 1+3 delusion. 1+1 delusion tends to blow out highlights quite easily.

Great video, Roger! Zone III + 2! If your ZIII reading is f8 @ 1/8, set the camera to f8 @ 1/30.

Another great video. Those "a-ha" moments of realisation are some of the most fun when shooting film. I was (slightly) familiar with the zone system as I bought and read The Negative by Ansel Adams back when I started learning about film. I understood it, but it seemed more suited to people who shot large format landscapes and needed to determine the various values of light in a scene to get optional exposure - not really applicable to snap shooters like me. I can't afford a fancy spot meter, so I've spent most of my time learning how to eyeball the shadows to determine exposure via sunny 16. It works like a charm 90% of the time, but sometimes I get a whiteout in the sky, so I may experiment a little with reduced development times going forward.

Thanks Roger, very helpful. I'm assuming it's a thing you have to learn by doing, but just when you're trying to learn (me), so often people just talk about it and it's hard to absorb that way. Thank you for showing us, for example, what you were metering on. Visual examples definitely help me understand a little better how the pieces fit together.

I'm about to pay you the highest compliment I can regarding your video even though I don't develop my own film: Helpful.

Nice prints ! Look much better than the scans. Great video, again !

just think of the zone system basically as pushing and pulling your film through exposure and development.

Enjoyed this video, as it’s a bold move to get to grips with the zone system from scratch ! It may be an idea to do one whole roll, not moving the camera, with the same scene, that contains some sky, at one setting, from the single spot metered setting. Then do some progressive clip tests, at increased dev times to find out, if there is enough dynamic range in the film, to give detail from sky / highlights, to shadow. That way with increasing dev times you can discover if the detail in the sky is achievable, by examining the various clips you’ve developed. Finally you may then decide the dynamic range either isn’t there in the film, or to expose for somewhere else in the scene. It’s similar to doing test strips with printing paper. When I was shooting regularly for a living, almost everyone did clip tests on a roll before deciding to push or pull film, as we shot mostly transparency/ reversal, and with B+W. It will take a while, but I think you will find out quite a lot about the dynamic range... Best wishes, Gary

Excellent as per... BTW these meters are selling on Ebay 2nd hand for around £400 !! you have some really generous friends Roger :-)

Some videos I’ve found useful: Cody Mitchell on the Zone System: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g85joM6IsrjUlas.html Trangent (Will Agar) on adjusting the exposure and the development of your Film to match the contrast of your scene: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hcqgmbWiqaq-qas.html The Photography Minimalist discussion on the Zone System with Hans de Graaf Part 1: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hKpjdZhhybq5XY0.html Part 2: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lcuZiqle0qjbeZc.html

Nice video and glad you are 'into' the Zone system - it's a great system. The zone system is all about 'range' as well as 'shoot for the shadows'. I think your photo day was difficult because the light was very 'flat' and therefore your zone range would also be very flat. You shot for the shadow details which was perfect, but you also need to meter for the highlights. So, when you adjust the exposure for the blacks to make them darker (we don't want grays in the shadows of course) you will find that you also 'shift' the highlights down into a muddy gray - e.g. when you adjust the blacks you also adjust the highlights. This results (on a flat day) of the narrow zone range. If the range is below or even 5 then you need to think about extending the development (hence expose for the shadows - develop for the highlights). Most people look at N+ (as it's called) settings. Perhaps approx 20% for each highlight stop you want to increase. So, if you range is 4 (having metered for shadows and also taken readings for highlights) you need to get the highlights up, as you know this is done by extending the development (N+). This factor is very often documented so have a look. As I say some do an approximation of +20% for each stop. So if you normal dev is 6 mins and you want to push the highlights UP the scale (for a wider range) by 2 zones, you need to add 6 mins + 40% (this can be trial and error to start with and depends on the film). The massive dev chart (I think) has N+ and N- (reducing factors for highlights) listed for developers and it's normally on the manufacturers' spec sheet with the developer. This is why a lot of photographers only use the zone system with sheet film as each exposure may be quite different. So we would write down the exposure and Shadow/Highlight zones for 'each shot' and then develop correctly for that exact scene / scenario. Roll film is tricky as the whole file has to be developed in one go, so there is not so much control. Another way to get used to the zone system is to put 5 objects on a table (large'ish) with tones ranging from very dark to very light. Then on (let's say) an overcast day, you meter for the darkest object, take a reading of the lightest object. Check the 'range' of zones between them, Adjust your exposure to what you think is correct, and develop with N+ times. Check results. If you do not get the results you were looking for there is either something wrong with the light meter or the dev times or your exposure compensation for black/grays. At least you know. Best done with sheet film, or develop 120 with only one piece of film at a time to check. Once you have your perfect combo, write it down and frame it :) This is 'kind of' what Ansel did. A LOT of tests and experiments with consistent films and developers to find the ultimate combination for landscape photography. Great videos and I love watching your enthusiasm and experimenting - keep it up :) PS. This guys explains it quite well - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o6yiY9R20da1qGg.html

Dodging and burning will always leave some halos, but have You ever tried selective masking? Check on Alan Ross’s selective masking, that is so impressive! I saw prints made in that way, oh dear lord what a masterpieces. I cannot do it in my darkroom, first of all it’s rather not possible with 35mm (maybe I could do it with medium format), second of all my Durst enlarger is not adequate to use it in such way. But I know you are hungry for knowledge so try it out ;)

They're great, those STOP meters… wish I could afford one! ;-)

Ansel Adams's zone system was not just to produce negatives with incredible tonality. It was from negative to print. That is why his photography series starts with The Negative and then The Camera, and lastly The Print. For the zone system to work , a film must be calibrated to the developer, shutter, exposure meter, lighting conditions, Paper type, paper developer, toner, etc etc etc. All must be calibrated and work in unison with each other. Being able to accurately predict the negative density under differing lighting situations and to produce the visualised print, demands such discipline. Adams kept meticulous record of anything to do with his photography, film type, camera. lens. shutter, filter type and factor, resulting exposure placement, expansion or contraction, developer type etc. . The placement of shadows or highlights on the exposure scale using a one degree spot meter, is just a start, a good start but only a start.

Thanks for your inspiration. I went out on sunday and tried it myself end made a video. Best regards Jens

Definitely gonna give this a try excellent work

Can also use a graduated filter for your skies

Some really nice photos there. Thanks.

A quick easy and pretty darn accurate way is to spot meter a shadow then under expose one stop from that. Develop as normal and it just works.

Regarding shooting the tree. That’s why you use the L508 in incident mode. The tree will be exposed to give true tonality. Less thinking required.

Little trick I learned. Instead of developing for highlights, use a graduated filter. Sky too bright? Two stop grad filter...Boom...Done. If your meter reads 1/15, you bring it to 1/60th, but your meter reads 2 stops over at middle grey for the sky (which is about average), making it effectively 4 stops, you put a 4 stop GND filter on, now your whole shot is at the same exposure. No mental math required. Simple, quick and easy. Only downside is that initial cost. GND and polarizers are kind of staples of landscape photographers.

I'm curious about Nick Carver's Precision Metering Method. It's based on the zone system I think. I do found the Zone System is quite a rabbit hole. Beyond the Zone System is even crazier! One thing to maybe consider here is if you metered on the sky to see what the different in stops/zones was between your shadow reading. That would give you the dynamic range and you can then decide if you need to "fit" the dynamic range into the film and paper. Although using a filter, as you know, if there's bits of blue sky, I find super helpful. I only bring that up because my tests of Ultrafine Finesse 400 show that it is crazy responsive to an orange filter. Seemingly more than other films (though maybe that's all in my head). Anyways! The other thing you might consider is doing some film tests. That's QUITE a rabbit hole but it'll tell you what sort of measureable contrast/gamma you get with your specific development process. That way you know for sure that X development time gives you Y contrast, which goes back to whether or not you need to expand/contract (pull/push) to get the dynamic range to match. I have been doing film tests, though maybe a bit less so for metering and more for determining my raw developing times outside of it. That's because I'm using XTOL replenishment in my own DIY rotary which means the standard dev times don't always match for every film (though some do). At some point I will take it a step further and start doing some better zone systemy work. But then that goes back to Nick's class - I get the feeling he presents it in a more modern and practical way than reading through AA's The Negative, though I haven't taken the class yet so I'm just guessing there based on what I've seen of his other videos and things.

I’m really interested to see the solutions you come up with. I don’t have the patience or discipline to use the zone system with all the testing and preparation that Adams recommends. My approach is to shift my exposures and development roughly in the direction that I want them to go with the knowledge that I will still have to make split grade prints in the darkroom - it’s just they will be easier than they would have been had I not tweaked my exposures and development. When metering a scene I like to look at EVs because it makes it easier to see how many stops the shadows are from the highlights. If I have a wide range from dark shadows to bright sky, I tend to place the shadows that I want to fall into zone 3 or 4 in the print at zone 5, knowing that when I pull the development, I’ll lose a bit of exposure in the shadows (although I’ll lose a lot more exposure in the highlights). I develop with the rough assumption that 20% of the development time is about one stop. (I might be completely wrong on this, but it’s what I do...) So if I want to pull my highlights down by two stops, I’ll reduce the development time by 40% (Instead of 10 minutes, I’ll develop for 6 minutes). If I need to push the film, I’ll increase the develop time by 20% per stop. I haven’t done the sort of testing that might make it easier to predict exactly where my tones will land, but I’ve learned this mushy approach to the zone system well enough that my negatives are much easier to print than before I started doing this sort of thing. I might do some testing as I better understand what my goals are in exposing and developing. By the way, in most cases I’m doing this on sheet film so I can develop each shot separate from the others. When using roll film, I think you have to decide how you plan to develop the roll within the first couple of shots and then set your subsequent exposures based on whether you are going to give the roll a normal, pushed or pulled development.

When measuring exposure, I always use spot metering to measure the shadows. I usually make several measurements of different brightnesses, if this is possible. The exposure meter then calculates the average exposure time. If I use a color negative film, I don't expose it at box speed, but pull it, a 100 ISO film to 50, for example. I then let the film develop (I don't develop myself) according to the specified ISO value. do you do the same? What scanner do you use to scan your negatives?

A quick question use the Sekonic L 358 which shutter or Aperture priority which I think is the same as the L508, in the video it doesn't make clear which mode you use ? (my old meter the Sekonic L-228 just gave you a reading pretty much like a handheld meter would )

Great info, spot metering is my goto metering eve though I read somewhere spot is dead since matrix.. I have reinstated my om4 for that very reason of multi spot (up to 8 ) plus I have a Kenko kfm2200 which can take up to 9 spots (don't quote me on the number as it maybe 12) you can do highlight and shadow stuff..... I agree with further playtime with the yellow filter.

Perhaps if you combine your earlier experiments with a yellow filter on the camera lens with this new knowledge, you can tame those skies.

if you meter shadows, midtones and highlights, you will know whether the scene can be rendered with standard dev time. some scenes are just not worth to pursue with a roll film back and may need a grad filter, at a risk of looking unnatural. incidently, my sekonic has a function that averages between 5 meterings to give a likely good exposure time for a scene. maybe yours has it too.

It’s very simple: meter shadows and two stops under for film; meter highlight and two stops over for digital. I only meter shadows or highlights. I couldn’t tell you what a middle grey is for love or money.

I’ve been reading that many large format photographers place the shadow details in Z4, not Z3. Haven’t tried it but will.

Expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights is valid, but is actually geared more for when using graded paper. Ideally, you’d also meter the brightest part of the image to get your subject brightness range, then adjust development so the SBR fits within your paper grade. With multigrade paper, you still want to expose for the shadows, and can pull development if you want, but then when printing, use grade 0 or 00 and find your exposure time that gives you the detail you want in the brightest part of the image, then use grade 5 to punch your shadows and blacks in to taste. If you do that, you’ll find that you’ll almost never have to dodge or burn, or if you do it’ll be a little dodging when doing the grade 0 or 00. Remember, with multi grade paper, what you see in the final print is effectively two exposures, one at grade 0, the other at grade 5. If you do a print with a 2.5 filter, that is exactly the same as doing a print with exactly the same times for grade 0 and grade 5.

Great and fun video, thanks! I also have a L-508 and love the zoom (which newer models don't have). You should try using the averaging function on the L-508. Using three or four points, find a highlight, dark shadow, and two middle greys hitting the record button on each point. Then hit the average button and used that value. This works most of the time for me, even with chromes, which have a small dynamic range. My thoughts on your problem with the sky is that you'll never see the blue/white differences of sky/cloud without a filter. The best I've found for BW is the orange+CPL combo to give you those nice contrasty cloud scenes. Also how is the dynamic range of the Kentmore paper? Have you tried Ilford papers? OK it's been 40+ years since my last print but maybe a higher dynamic range in the paper will help? And -- have you tried using 2.5, 3 or more stops above the shadow reading based on the dynamic range of your film?

Great Video. Have you tried using a ND filter to get more contrast in the sky. I wonder if this would work to get more detail in the highlights with less work in the darkroom.

metering stop are not equal to the adams zones. Adams has 10 zones, and the film has a dynamic range of about 7-8 Ev. therefore, an increase or decrease by 2 stops (from 15 to 60) is not equal to moving through the 2 adams zones.and slide film generally has a range of about 4Ev/

Always great content. I also want to to stick more with this method. If can be interested there is an interesting video of Bruce Barnbaum on place shadow on zone IV.

Hiya Roger, would it be possible to use this process! but not reduce development, instead use a grey grad to reduce the brightness of the sky? Best.

Thanks for sharing ! Why not using a yellow filter for a bit more contrast in the sky ?

Or use stand development with Rodinal 1:100

Thanks

Well explained!! 👍

Fotografía en estado puro. Enhorabuena y saludos desde España.

Interesting video and great advise. One question. Why not use the appropriate strength graduated filter to bring down the light in the sky? Wouldn't that make the development and printing a bit easier?

Im sorry, new to photography, but how is going from shutter speed 15 to 60 "stoping down" as you mentioned? a lot of these terms seem to be counter intuitive

Hi Rodger great video. Ive just bought the same spot meter you were given having looked for six months on the web. I did notice you only took one spot reading from your scenes. I think this meter has a function that allows you to take two readings and the meter will work out the average reading of the scene. One for the highlights and one for the shadows. Have you tried this method, and if so does it help improve your images. Cheers Anthony

Hi mate, i see your video about printing the 35mm negs with showing the film edges and sprocket using medium format negs carrier. I forgot to bookmark that video, could link thw\e video ? TIA and stay safe.

You had your light meter set to ISO400 all the time, right? A shortened development time reduces the effective sensitivity of the film noticeably (e.g. -1/2 to -2/3 stops in a N-2 development of HP5+ with XTOL, even more with some other developers). If you nevertheless meter/expose at box speed, the shortened development time will ruin your carefully (at ISO400) metered shadows, and produce an underdeveloped negative. To gain an additional stop of dynamic range on either end of the Zone system (N-2), set your light meter to ISO125 with HP5+ (ISO400 minus 1 2/3 stops). To keep "middle grey" in the middle, put the metered shadow in Zone 2 (i.e. -3 stops of what your light meter shows). Development time depends on agitation frequency, but something around 11:30 - 30% = 8:00 in XTOL 1+1 at 20 Celsius (or 10:00 in XTOL 1+3) should be ok. BTW: I recommend the book "Way Beyond Monochrome" by Ralph W. Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse. The two chapters "Development and Film Processing" and "Customizing Film Speed and Development" provide a good overview of how to apply the Zone System in an analog process.

So, that's what expose for the shadows...etc. means. I am a bit concerned about the number of broken porcelain heads every where. makes you go hmmmmmm.

You do right metering from the shadows, but reducing development time is only pulling the film not developing to the dynamic range, the term Meter for highlights and develop for shadows is primely when you use single sheet film, you develop using the N+ N- method, to implement that you have to determine the scenes dynamic range, if the textural range is 7 stops you would do a N- 2 that would be around 30 to 40% reduction in the developing time bringing the high values down to the 5 stop range, if the DR was 3 stops you would do a N+ 2 increasing dev time by 35%, again bringing you back to the 5 stops I can send you formulas for both N+ - if you need them, the problem with roll film is each exposure will if the light changes have a differing DR, if just pull the film by under developing you will get lower contrast on every frame, better shut up now lol, sounds like a lecture.

Tell us more about picture frames. The issue is confusing and many times the frame is the most expensive part. Furthermore, I noticed an increase in price lately.

Roger, I may have missed something but how did you arrive at the 30% figure to pull your development? Is there a formula to follow or is it "best judgement"? Until I saw this video I didn't realise that you had to adjust development AS WELL as exposing for shadows which I was getting to grips with but could explain why some of my pictures are a bit hit and miss, which as I am only scanning and postprocessing on the computer can often be saved, but as I am hoping to move into a darkroom in the next month or so it will become more critical.

Sir, check out Nick Carver’s PMM method. So many penny’s will drop you’ll wish you’d discovered it earlier.

Great! 😉👍

This is a really good video. I will give this a try, using my DSLR as a spot meter. Where did you come up with the 30% reduction in development time? Why not 25% or 35%? Is there a rule to follow? Thank you.

@1:07 Ok, we must be about the same age, I had one of those guys, lol

Interesting stuff! If I’m not doing dark room prints is there still an advantage to using this method with scanning? (Files that are easier to work with?) Or would it really depend on the latitude of the film?

Why don't you save time and just set your incent meter to expose 2 stops under? Since your film is iso 400, set your incent meter to iso 1600 and then spot meter the shadows. Bam, done. Your shadows will instantly be in zone 3. It's just faster this way. No guess work ever.

Hi, but do you use effective film sensitivity to meter the dark area?

Thanks for sharing

Epiphany: that "Aha!" moment. Now the next thing is to get you shooting sheet film, so you can individually develop each sheet as the scene requires -- this scene only had three and a half stops difference between the darkest shadow I want to keep and the brightest highlight I care about, so I need to develop it longer to push those values apart, but that other one had a full seven stops that I want to preserve, so I have to develop that less than normal. There's a limit to how much of this you can do with roll film. Sure, you can cut the film out of your 35mm cameras, but that's wasteful, both of film (every time you cut a leader and reload you're fogging four or five frames) and time (you have to go into the darkroom to do it, so you have to stop shooting and go home). It's worse with 120; if you try to cut after winding through, you've virtually certain to destroy one frame out of your twelve or fifteen (or eight or ten, depending on the camera). With 5x4, though, you just make a note, "FH9A f/8 1/4 N+1" -- film holder 9, side A, f/8 at 1/4 second, develop for one step of contrast expansion. You'll get negatives that need less dodging and burning and are more likely to print near your standard paper grade (whether that's 2, 2 1/2, or 3). You can still get a 5x4 press camera with a lens in working shutter, sometimes with a working rangefinder, for a couple hundred quid, if you aren't in a hurry. Film holders are common and plentiful, though they cost more now than they did twenty years ago when they were still being manufactured. Sheet film seems expensive (anywhere from a quid per sheet on up, depending on size, brand, and type) but I've had a good day if I shoot half a dozen sheets, which costs barely more than a roll of 120 of the same brand. Alternately, you can buy a brand new Intrepid field camera for about US$500, and since they're made in England they're probably less there than here. You don't *have* to go to large format, but if you want to fully apply the Zone System, it helps a lot to be able to develop individual frames independently of one another...