Caught the same thing. Which made me think...why not use a tablet so he can see the RTA?

+Strikers MC Creations Thanks for the comment, glad you dug it!

Great to hear, thank you!

Good point

Yes but then the vocal could likely sound weird (because of the channel EQing you have been doing for the ringing out) everywhere else : FOH speakers, other wedges/IEMs, livestream ... Whereas EQing the wedge will take care of the feedback problem for that wedge/mic combination, without affecting the vocal mic sound everywhere else. I'm not saying EQing the vox mic channel directly to prevent feedback is bad, but there is also a downside to this, and you need to be aware of it.

- wedges are likely mono so they use 1 of the 2 channels from the dual GEQ - FOH is likely stereo so you want 1 stereo GEQ

That's why he does many types of sounds (sss, hum, woooo, ppp...) i guess... To emulate different timbres/frequencies.

Great idea!

Kurt Cronje Wait, your room and system/setup would be totally different...

That depends on the specs of your board maybe? Are you using the same board as in this video? I don't know the difference between Low Cut and High Pass. I thought it was the same exact thing. Anyone? On a digital board you should be able to decide where exactly the cut or pass frequency is. On an analog board it is decided for you and you could reference the board's manual to see exactly where the cut/pass is. I assumed your first sentence was a typo "hi cut".

same board, x32 and m32. No the HPF and Low cut are different, the slopes are different. the high pass has a much steeper slope, the lo cut has a shallower, I dont know the specs but looking at the GUI representation im guessing the HPF could be 48db slope and the high cut a 12 db slope. I was curios why i was seeing some engineers not using the HPF and instead using the lo cut.

Gotcha, I guess there is no Q for it. Thanks for the info.

Guys, hpf is for cutting Low Frequency’s and Lpf is for Cutting high frequencies their steepness in dB is either set amount for analog or adjustable in digital, just think of them being opposites

@@vedasticks"I was curios why i was seeing some engineers not using the HPF and instead using the lo cut. " I guess simply because the lo cut is dedicated to cleaning up the low end, whereas using an HPF would use up one of the normal EQ bands, which then cannot be used for something else :)

no..he said 4K :) so 4K goes down

On stage Chad couldn't see the RTA. Scott was letting him just use his ears for most of the video.

he guessed close but guessed wrong. If Chad cant see the RTA, than Scott does the ringing as he can see the RTA. Parametric EQs are far better for ringing, as you have narrow Q's and if you find the right frequency without guessing, you dont need to take too much out.

@@djkamilo66 "Parametric EQs are far better for ringing, as you have narrow Q's and if you find the right frequency without guessing, you dont need to take too much out" Sure but what do you do when you run out of PEQ bands ?

M32

Sure, but even with optimal placement, you need to do the ringing out to get as much gain before feedback as possible.

The first part of the video was about EQing the Monitors. The second half was about EQing the mains. We use a mic to test, but we're not EQing the mic (or very little at least with High Pass filter as explained).

@@ShootieSchool But toward the end when you were tuning listening the FOH you were EQ ing the vox mic channel itself at some point right (when cutting the low mids witht he PEQ) ?

Yeah, the power amplier.

Where should the amp level be set at for live performances and practices

@@ManuelHernandez-br6dy So that with proper gain structure beforehand on the console, you get something that's loud enough but not way too loud.

One more thing: Graphic EQ on mains is for the room, and the crossover is for the speakers. Once a crossover is set, especially in a permanent install, it doesn’t get touched again. Then, you play a WELL known song and adjust the EQ in conjunction with listening on reference headphones to make the room sound like the headphones. Back and forth. See Dave Rat’s video on this subject.

"If you have enough rig, you should never have feedback." How so ? How getting a good enough system will magically prevent ALL feedback from happening ?

@@djabthrash I’m presuming a person is doing sound for their band or a local small sound company. In this case, too small a rig that doesn’t get loud enough to cover the space, an engineer will tend to push the system. They may increase the gain of the channel(s) to above the specified amount above. Or, they may want to turn the outputs up more than the system can handle. Both cases can add to feedback possibilities.

In addition, a system that is sized correctly to fill the space with the desired SPL will generally be run more conservatively in the gains of channels.

@@dalechristenson685 Sure but feedback doesn't care WHERE in the signal chain you push things up... It will occur the same whether you push your channel gain or you push your channel fader (for FOH) or send (for MON), or you push the makeup gain on the channel compressor, etc I don't really see how having a rig that gets things loud enough will change how much gain before feedback you get... Having an undersized rig will force you to go into the red and/or not get things loud enough, but it won't magically solve feedback issues. A loud rig will allow you to get loud enough, but that won't change the fact that feedback will still happen if you don't take care of it.

Hostile Groove "Diablo's Frie"

So you just put a RTA mic at FOH and ring out the FOH speakers ? If so, how do you take care of the wedges ? RTA mic in front of them ?

@@djabthrash sorry, my initial post was lacking a bunch of relevant info but in a nutshell, No, I'll elaborate... You want to use an analysis tool like "Smaart" software with a calibration grade mic and a PC/Mac Audio interface. Smaart has frequency and especially time alignment calibration tools so you can make time delay adjustments to ensure your PA is all time aligned which in most cases is why a PA sounds crap more than it simply not being tuned to the room properly. Keep in mind room acoustics will be hard to predict before the room is full of Punters, as bodies and temperature make a massive difference at show time to the Audio than simply eq'ing an empty room in the middle of the afternoon. Most modern high end Pro PAs like D&B or L-Acoustic etc don't have a great deal of PA EQ "tuning" options due to thier own processing you have to use being built into thier Amps so time alignment of Subs, Ground Stacks and Hangs is typically the main point of attention these days unlike 20+years ago with Point Source systems as you had to configure it all typically by ear for every venue back when I started in the mid 90s. As for wedges. Just like in this video Easiest way is grab a SM58 cup it in your hand causing it to lose its cardioid polar response cancelation properties, effectively turning it into omni directional mic , ride the gain and it will find you all the ringing frequencies to notch out as you walk around the stage in most cases. As one frequency takes off in a wedge or pair at each position ,find it and notch it out, and surrounding frequencies, From there keep pushing the gain untill you found most issues at each fixed position enabling you to have a feedback free stage as best you can. DONT STOP HERE, once you have rung out the monitors with the mic fixed on a stand, now do a walk with the same cuppped Mic technique and gain riding AROUND that monitor position and you find a heap more frequencies that most likely will come alive once the venue heats up or the stage fills up. The walking around part is criticle to it being thorough. Not enough people do this and wonder why once the show starts a heap of rubbish comes to life they have to deal with mid show. Its not a guarantee you got everything, but considerably more thorough than stopping at a fixed mic position at a single monitor position. Alot of the older Monitor guys still use this method as its fast n effective especially if there is no time for an actual sound check with the band, ie a festival type gig. As for tone, most wedges are 2way biamped so once you've rung them out, you can tune them to your personal taste to get em flat sounding to your ears as you can. I've never seen anyone pink wedges but no reason why not and I'm not convinced tuning by sight is ever the best approach but is..., just more work during setup. Good luck !

Yes but on the other hand : - the monitor might be mainly for a vocalist so it's no biggie if it's EQed for ringout a bit and all instruments don't sound nice through it - if you EQ your vox mic channel directly for ringout, then your EQ will affect the sound of your vox mic channel everywhere : wedges, but also IEM mixes, FOH, livestream mix... You have to know the pros and cons of both methods and choose one that works in your case. Sometimes it can be a combination of both.

@@djabthrash "- if you EQ your vox mic channel directly for ringout, then your EQ will affect the sound of your vox mic channel everywhere : wedges, but also IEM mixes, FOH, livestream mix..." I understand, I said that assuming there's a dedicated monitor console with its own EQ. The upside to EQing the vocal is that it doesn't "punish" all the other channels in the monitor for the crimes of only the vocal lol. It's slightly more "surgical" than slapping a deep cut at 6k on the monitor send. Yeah it's a very subtle difference but that's how it goes from good to great!

@@djjazzyjeff1232 "I understand, I said that assuming there's a dedicated monitor console with its own EQ" Oh sure ! I completely forgot about that aspect, mainly because i work in a venue where the mixing console handle both FOH and MONs, and that's also the config shown in this video. Best world is dedicated is 1 dedicated console for MON and the entire band on IEMs, so that feedback is barely an issue (unless the vocalist goes in the crowd with its mic).

I LIKE MUCH MORE WORKING WITH A PRQ instead of GEQ, BUT FOR DIFFERENTS REASONS, BY EXAMPLE, THE TIME , SPECIALY IN FESTIVAL S WITHOUT SOUNDCHECK, JUST A LINECHECK, IT IS MORE EASY(FOR ME certainly) to have a good desk with an EFFICIENT HI-PASS FILTER (400HZ) EVEN IF YOU HAVE ONLY A SEMI PARAM. ON CHANNELS LIKE A MIDAS VENICE OR IN THIS RANGE, FRIENDLY.

- "Why wouldn't you just ring out the monitor and mic instead of the whole room" That's what they did in the first 3/4 of the video lol ... They only did the room at the end. -PEQ is great but you can run out of PEQ bands quickly, so then you're left with the GEQ...

Is it me or is there a lot of effort in this method, my usual way is to put a 58 a foot and half from pointing at the monitor (as if singer puts mic to their hip) and just keep putting volume up and knocking out frequencies until it saturates, no talking , The system for that monitor has hit the feedback ceiling I stop, the resulting sound sounds full and feedback free, any thoughts from anyone?

@@Davidhamnett This also works, but by using the mic directly you can make these "feedback triggering sounds" (sss, ttt, etc) that help you hear the ringing frequencies, and it also allow you to hear how things sound from the stage. And don't forget that at some point tablets and remote mixing weren't a thing, and you had one tech on stage testing out the mic while the other person was at the console EQing things. So your way works, but the other way makes sense as well. Yours is faster for ringing out the monitor i guess, BUT you don't get to hear how the vocal sound from the stage (or from the crowd if another tech is using the mic for you).

Are you serious ? You could hear feedback creeping in in different frequencies here as soon as they were raising the send and that's the frequencies they cut so they definitely did the ringing out thing...

In this video the guy that is onstage is using his ears only... The RTA is just another extra tool that you can choose to use or not, and that can be very handy at times. Training your ear is the best, but sometimes you can be wrong (which happened at one moment in this video btw) and in a rush and then the RTA will save you.

this could be a good comment if you explain yourself. but that is just a senseless comment and helps no one

In real life this is the mic used 99% of the time for vocals...

Yes but how do you hear how the vox mic onstage sounds from the audience if you don't have 2 people (one testing the mic and the other one in the audience). You could sure take the mic with you in the crowd but then you have to deal with cable length (or use wireless) and the mic is not in the same position as where it is supposed to during the show. If you're on your own then you do the ipad thing from the stage, or you ring out from the FOH position, but if there are at least 2 people then this approach (the one showed in the video) is good and still widely used i think.

?

I thought I was the only one who thought this method was inefficient and ineffective.

"based on 'potential' mic cuppers " It can be a thing though... Depends on the type of show you're doing sound for. There might be a lot of mic cupping if you're doing rap, or death metal or hardcore with handheld mics for instance.

If you are an expert at this, why did you watch a tutorial video?... Seems fishy

MrStubat how do you know if you've cut too much?

They just doing a demo..and play that eq little bit..not a job....you thing you so good because of that..

@@grazen321 lol

U obviously don't know what ringing out is.

@@mailjasons+1

Feedback doesn't care about the singing voice or if it's triggered by someone doing "sss" into the mic" or by cymbals...

@@mailjasons obviously you are an idi0t

@@djabthrash what does it care about. feedback is triggered by something

The point of ringing out is having more gain before feedback, and they achieved that. And saying it sounds like shit doesn't make sense, because here they do sound for the musicians onstage with their wedges and the people in the audience with the FOH, not for people watching the video on youtube from home.

very valid point! the mic thing does help though, as vocals are the most important thing in a bands mix.

They're ringing monitors. Not FOH

Lol they are ringing out monitors with his vocals you dingus, do you play tracks through your monitors to ring them out? If so I'm sure your audience appreciates your ear splitting constant feedback

I honestly thought it was FOH. I still believe he has a valid point. I would use an RTA mic and run pink noise through, then you know exactly what frequencies you need to adjust, set your graphic so that your getting a flat response out of the monitor for the room. Normally what I do is have various presets on my amp for various monitors that we have in the venue, then a graphic is set on the amp preset to have a close to flat response for the monitor in the room. Then I can use the Graphic EQ to adjust to musicans taste. This setup allows me to quickly setup any monitor on stage and know that I am getting a relatively flat response.

@SourceFed1: But the actual mic or mics you will be using don't have a flat response. They will boost certain frequencies. What are your thoughts on that? Just curious.