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SHOP CLASS EP4: how a joystick swing-away works!
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3 жыл бұрынLet's take apart a permobil joystick "swing away" mechanism, and see how it works!
its surprisingly, quite interesting!
Here's the teardown of the NEW slimline version! - - - • VLOG 645: inside the p...
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@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
Just to prevent any confusion.. permobil uses some different terminology with these things - what i'm taking apart in this video is a "Permobil Retractable Joystick Mount" However, most other brands refer to these devices as "swing-away mounts" :^)
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
Do you know their functional differences, if any?
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
Not to be argumentative, but on page 4 of the order form for the M3 Corpus mid-wheel drive new model released about May 2020, page 4 of the order form it is described as: "I108037-99-0 Slimline Retractable Joystick Mount - Right 503.00 E1028." See, permobilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/US-M3-Corpus.pdf
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
@@GeneGirard007 yes - that's what im saying here.. this device i took apart in the video is NOT called a "swing away" (according to permobil) Also 'slimline' refers to the new, thinner version i was referring to. the device im showing in this video is called the "retractable joystick mount" the actual "swing away" they sell has ZERO mechanical parts to it. its just 2 metal plates with a hole in the middle, a bolt, and a knob to tighten them down. no chains, covers, scissor mechanisms, or anything like that at all. literally just 2 metal plates with a hole, and a bolt, fastening them together.
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
@@TotallyNormal- Aha, said the blind man. Now I see.
@harleyeckles 3 жыл бұрын
Permobil offers a solid mount, swing away or retractable mount for the joystick on its chairs. The solid mount is just what it says, no articulation, always pointed in the direction it was installed. The swing away has a single pivot point under the arm rest. You can swing it out of the way, but the joystick does NOT stay pointed straight ahead, so really difficult to use when you swing it out of the way. I have never seen one on a Permobil chair. The retractible mount allows the joystick controller to stay oriented pointing in the same forward direction no matter how you position it. I have owned all three on different chairs over the past 23 years, and the retractable is the way to go. Yes, some other manufacturers call their retractable type mounts "swing away".
@horsewnoname872 3 жыл бұрын
On my forty year journey, I have not "seen" such outstanding engineering and such long-term trouble free functionality as Permobil proves except the discontinued Omega Trac by Teftec. The power wheelchair designed by an aircraft engineer. Great tutorial, Dan!
@sharpie249 Жыл бұрын
I'm glad to have seen this video. Thanks for posting it. I have one just like it that is loose and I've never taken it apart to figure out how to take of the slack. Now I don't have too and I can adjust out the annoying play in it.
@GuyScharf 3 жыл бұрын
We have a 2019 M3 with the thinner swing-away arm (and, no, I'm not going to take it apart -- my wife would object!). There's no tension adjustment knob on the bottom, though the back one does have a sunken screw that might be an adjustment mechanism. You didn't mention it, but one of the neat things about those teethed connections is that you can adjust them so that the arm in its detent is at a slight angle to the armrest, so the joystick can still be straight ahead and parallel to the arm but offset to the inside or outside (hope that made sense).
@harleyeckles 3 жыл бұрын
The newer slim-line model lacks the friction-adjust knob on the underside, and is not easy to adjust. The teeth not only allow it to securely lock into position, but also allow for mounting securely at different angles. This is nice, because the arm rests are also able to be adjusted so they point inward, straight or outward to preference. So, you could have the arm rests pointed at different angles, but still have the joystick pointed straight. I have , and use, both the old style and slim-line swing-aways on mu chairs. I have not found any difference in strength between both models. I have a good friend with MS who has weakness in his arms, so much so that it is difficult for him to push the swing-away sideways out of the forward position, inward or outward. I modified his old style swing-away by chamfering the edges on the detents in the plastic cylinders. Similar results can be obtained by shortening the spring a small amount, or using a weaker spring. I took off the black plastic cover on an older swing-away, and buffed all the aluminum parts to a mirror finish. It looks rather steam-punk to have all the metal and chain exposed. As usual, nice video.
@josephmirigliano8728 3 жыл бұрын
Great video!!!!!!!!!
@MrStumpmuffin 3 жыл бұрын
I have the corpus M3 and it has the thin swing out. I had to take it apart to adjust the detent because mine kept swinging out unexpectedly. Unfortunately I had to use my eyes to evaluate what the parts are and translate that to my wife to be my hands and work on it. We survived and fixed whatever it was that was bothering me. I too was very impressed with the engineering that wind is a little thingWe survived and fixed whatever it was that was bothering me. I too was very impressed with the engineering that went into this thing.
@blindwheels 3 жыл бұрын
I go through these like crazy, the bolt in the swingaway I destroy them.. I was worse when i was commuting on a daily basis!
@stormtrooper88 3 жыл бұрын
WOW! my swingaway on my 'dog walking chair fell apart' 2 weeks ago. [well loved c300 i purchased for just a few hundred dollars last year.] the bolt/nut is stripped. this video was just what i need to see whats involved to fix it. it looks like i can tap the one plastic cog 1 size up and use a new bolt to repair it. my current temp duck tape repair was looking fairly permanent until you made this video. THANK YOU Dan! expect some black glue sticks in the mail as a thank you! [the larger sticks for your ryobi?]
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
glad to help!! and yes the 'standard/larger' size ones fit it! :^)
@JordanLoweElevaToursCanada 3 жыл бұрын
This is the same joystick mount that I have on my 2015 Permobil F3
@quinnfoster4671 3 жыл бұрын
parallelograms, stay evenly balanced :) Super great videos man I can see the huge time and effort poured in!!
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
"parallelograms" now there's a word i wasn't expecting to read today!! haha
@jtflipsi 3 жыл бұрын
That's something I need for my permobile. Mine came with a straight metal bracket that doesn't swing away just sits straight.
@tzuchy7 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, can you do a video review for quickie q500h wheelchair? It is a new model from summer 2020. I find your videos very interesting. Thank you
@evilrubberducky92 3 жыл бұрын
I have one on my quickie wheelchair. I’m guessing mine is a new one as it’s thinner and has metal cover rather than plastic. It’s pretty good.
@whitneydesignlabs8738 2 жыл бұрын
I have a chair like this. It is for experimental purposes.
@timothysmolka9237 2 жыл бұрын
Can you please do a video on how to change a joystick on a permobil c500? I am a big fan by the way.
@TotallyNormal- 2 жыл бұрын
About 4 min and 30 seconds into this video shows the process kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nreiqqh62di0j6s.html also the process is the same in this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z7t0ZNmmy6uamZc.html most permobil chairs use a variant of these removal methods :-)
@rogertyler3237 3 жыл бұрын
My Quantom Don't Have A setup Like That. It Just Has A 2 Pole Swing Away System.
@lovedfriend2020 3 жыл бұрын
Now if they can be used on other chairs :)
@CajunSmack 3 жыл бұрын
Interesting. But what I don't get is that if there's already a knob on the underside to adjust the tension, then what does adjusting the tension of the chain do?
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
the knob adjusts the amount of force required to swing the joystick out from center, and the chain tension keeps the joystick from wobbling all over the place :^)
@probablyshaun9897 3 жыл бұрын
I have the new f3 with the new smaller arm and i also used an old style f3 as a rental chair for a while, ive put roughly 800km on each of the chairs and ive only noticed That the shape is different ( the new one is a straight rectangle) and the new one doesnt have the knob to adjust
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
No adjustment knob? That seems like a huge difference.
@YellowFlash95 3 жыл бұрын
I have Ottobock b400 and insurance does not cover the price for that And I had to pay more than 180 euros for a piece of iron :(
@benjaminwimett3169 3 жыл бұрын
I’ve got a new one I’m a little now underwhelmed by it because you can’t tighten it As easy.
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
@Totally Normal do you have a swing away breakdown vid? I'm waiting for secondary insurance approval for my new M3. My last 2 chairs have been Quantum with tilt decline elevate. I need the functionality of this part but the vendor ordered the swing away instead. They both have the same HCPCS code. Also, can you answer a question? Initially, I vendor did not know that Permobil came out with a new M3 May 2020. I had to tell him what I knew about it from the Permobil webinar. In any event, my vendor told me that he could omit the ICS button thing between the joystick in the arm rest and program all of the functionality of drive, tilt, recline, and elevate through the joystick only. However, when I finally received a line item invoice of the M3 he proposes to order for me, I see that it does include the ICS part with buttons. I use an ordinary joystick, but my hand is faceup. I foresee problems with the ICS because my knuckles may inadvertently press some of those buttons, and the presence of the ICS is just going to make the joystick further out of my reach. (Explaining the need for the Slimline you just tore down.) Anyway, my real question is *can* all the functionality of the ICS be programmed into the joystick? Quantum doesn't seem to have much trouble doing that.
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
on permobil chairs ya can use the joystick or the ICS buttons - so omitting the switch box isnt an issue :^)
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
@@TotallyNormal- YAY!
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
My M3 is awaiting secondary insurance approval. My vendor finally provided me with a line item invoice. I see he has ordered the swing away instead of the Slimline. Do anyone know the differences. I need the functionality this part.
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
so the mechanism im taking apart in this video is technically called the "(slimline) retractable joystick mount" like the pinned comment above says, most manufacturers call this a "swing away".. BUT the term "swing away" with permobil is a completely different setup. ask them to show ya the differences.. its easier than trying to explain it here :^)
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
@@TotallyNormal- My ATP professional only has one 2-year-old Permobil demo and whatever he has on hand for delivery. I when sad and Invacare with a "retractable" joystick mount that would essentially swing the joystick out right and then back against the outside edge of the R armrest. My ATP professional ordered: "Joystick Mount Right - Swing Away." Have you ever seen one of these? Is it likely did have kind of a scissor mechanism rather than the elaborate Slimline in your video?They both have the same HCCPS code so I imagine there would be no problem with the change.
@snaggedon5518 3 жыл бұрын
You May Not See This But I’m Having Issues With My Joystick Armrest Falls Down When I Recline The Back Of My Chair Any Advice Or Ways To Fix Would Be Great Thanks!
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
how does it fall down? theyre "supposed" to stay roughly level when ya recline.. does it drop down towards the ground?
@snaggedon5518 3 жыл бұрын
@@TotallyNormal- That’s Correct It Drops Towards The Ground
@TotallyNormal- 3 жыл бұрын
hmm i wonder if the little bolts on the ends of the arm rests where they connect came loose.. also id check the turnbuckles on the back of the chair.. something somewhere has surely disconnected itself!
@snaggedon5518 3 жыл бұрын
@@TotallyNormal- Ok Thanks For The Help
@steveandjenny149 3 жыл бұрын
Now I know how they are so expensive, thats alot of engineering in a swing away control mount.
@rubberducky8810 2 жыл бұрын
worlds logest screw are we ment to be keeping it pg ? 😉
@ryansampson6534 3 жыл бұрын
Technically that’s the Permobil “Slimline” mount. The Permobil “swing away” is a single hinge point.
@GeneGirard007 3 жыл бұрын
My M3 is awaiting secondary insurance approval. My vendor finally provided me with a line item invoice. I see he has ordered the swing away instead of the Slimline. Do you know the differences. I need the functionality this part.
@blobby273 3 жыл бұрын
Its easy to see why permobile are more expensive thats so much more engineered '