Should Double Runs Always Be Kept? Here's The Answer | Cribbage Strategy

  Рет қаралды 8,386

Cribbage with J

Cribbage with J

Күн бұрын

In this video, the cribbage rule-of-thumb of "always keep a double run" is put under a mathematical microscope to determine whether it is fact or fiction.
Music: "Random Selection"
Composer: Pascal Tatipata

Пікірлер: 16
@triplelindys
@triplelindys 2 жыл бұрын
There's just so many factors. For example, if I have a double run of like 6-6-7-8 and the other two cards are a pair or like K-5 and it not my crib, there is zero chance I'm giving my opponent points. Also, is it early in the game when I can gamble a little more? Is it the middle of the game and it's close? Or it's the middle and you are getting stomped? The math in this video is 100% spot on, not debating that at all. But, having played literally thousands of games of cribbage in my middle-aged life, there are times you have to let the flow of the game dictate what you do. Math is a good start, not knocking that. :)
@tomroan4660
@tomroan4660 2 жыл бұрын
Love it! You have helped my game, and added value to my life. That's what life is all about!
@44tannertanner
@44tannertanner 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting!
@stephendye2924
@stephendye2924 3 жыл бұрын
Definitely had the same rule from my Grandad!
@jesspatrick2
@jesspatrick2 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry about this being off-topic. Have you attempted to evaluate the relative value of individual cards in cribbage? For example, I observe that for cribbage counting purposes, there are 20 odd cards (1,3,5,7,9), and 32 even cards. Therefore, the odd cards are more valuable since they are relatively scarce. You can't make 15 or any run without an odd card. What I don't know is how to quantify this. Have you ever tried?
@Cribbage_with_J
@Cribbage_with_J 2 жыл бұрын
Some initial calculations: For the non-dealer, across all hands containing at least one odd card (1,3,5,7,9) the average pegging points is 1.694. Across all hands containing at least one even card (2,4,6,8,X), the average pegging points is 1.684, so slightly less. For the dealer, across all hands containing at least one odd card, the average pegging points is 2.81; for even cards, 2.70. This was just a few quick calculations based on some existing data I have. To give a more confident answer, some rigor would be needed. But in the meantime, based on some rudimentary findings, there may be something to your theory
@superdow1000
@superdow1000 7 ай бұрын
To keep things practical, would be interesting to know the top 10 double runs that should be broken up on the dealer side and the top ten on the pone side. Also as mentioned below, one intangible to consider is the pegging value of the hand held....eg., the magic 11 can often result in extra points if retained.
@chriswalker810
@chriswalker810 2 жыл бұрын
The example hand you gave would be an example of where I would toss the 6&7 into the crib. With the pair of 5's and two face cards. You get more points with the potential of even greater points depending upon the cut card. For the most part I would keep a Straight 8 intact.
@Geoff_G
@Geoff_G Жыл бұрын
You are correct. it's definitely not a 100% rule. If you hold a 5, 10, J, J, Q, 2, and it is your opponent's crib, you need to look at net total points. To keep your double run, you would have to discard the 5 and 2 to your opponent's crib. Any hand that contains a 5 is guaranteed to have at least 2 points. That means your double runs 8 points are dropped to a net of 6 points. If you instead discard the 10 and 2 or Q and 2, then you keep 8 points, but there is no guarantee that your opponent's crib has points. There are other times, too, but this is a hand I was faced with tonight. Lucky me, the cut was a king, and I had thrown the 10 and 2, resulting in 16 points for me. Alas, neither J matched for the additional point. Good video
@Dsiman654
@Dsiman654 Жыл бұрын
Great video! I'm wondering about the best ways to put this information in practice while actually playing the game and recognize these situations when they come up. Are there any noticeable patterns to look out for among the small percentage of hands where it's optimal to break up the double runs? Like certain numbers where it's more common, or a certain amount of potential 15s to make it worth it?
@Cribbage_with_J
@Cribbage_with_J Жыл бұрын
Good question. Revisiting my original data, on the surface there doesn't appear to be any discernible patterns among the small percentage of hands, but a quick analysis shows the most commonly occurring card values to be 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. For certain hands, the optimal discard might be pretty apparent. For example: 5-5-5-5-6-7... for both dealer and non-dealer, the optimal discard is 6-7 for obvious reasons of keeping four 5's in hand. Other hands might be a bit more nuanced; for example: 3-7-7-7-8-9... the optimal discard for both dealer and non-dealer is 3-9 which breaks the double-run but ultimately results in the most net points. As dealer, some folks might be inclined to keep the 7-7-8-9 and discard 3-7 to their own crib, and while not a bad play (as I would argue 7-7-8-9 is a better pegging hand than 7-7-7-8), 7-7-7-8 has a slightly higher average hand value. Here's another: 3-4-4-4-5-8... is the optimal discard 4-8 or 5-8? According to the math, as dealer, it's 5-8 but only by a small margin - close enough that I wouldn't fault anyone for discarding 4-8 but mathematically 5-8 is better, even though it breaks the double-run. Here's a neat discarding resource that could be helpful: cliambrown.com/cribbage/?data=3H4C4D4S5H8DY. There's also the Myers book that I did I video on. Both excellent resources for discarding but perhaps not so practical while actually playing. I'll dig a bit more into this. In the meantime thanks for watching
@Dsiman654
@Dsiman654 Жыл бұрын
@@Cribbage_with_J Interesting. So mostly middle cards it seems, which makes sense. Thanks for the reply! I appreciate the resources too. I just found your channel yesterday btw and watched all your videos, they're all very informative and I like the way you present the information! I think the trickiest part about it all is how to practically apply it in-game. Of course there's a lot of math and certain ways to calculate optimal discards, but it's not like you can go through it all while playing. But that's part of what makes the game fun, I think! I know it's been awhile since your last video but if you get around to it, I'd also love to see a video that focuses on pegging strategies. Like which cards are best for it, what to do in certain situations, setups, best practices and things to avoid, etc.
@Cribbage_with_J
@Cribbage_with_J Жыл бұрын
Here's another resource: www.cribbageforum.com/SchellDiscard.htm . Depending on your level of ambition, the addition method might be something to consider. Personally, I find that noting specific tricky hands I get dealt and looking up the optimal discard after the game (either on C. Liam Brown's site or via the discarding book) reveals patterns that, over time, can be learned and then applying that knowledge when a similar hand appears in the future. Pegging strategies - my last video started to delve into some of that, and I had some ideas I wanted to try to explore. But I don't know if I've been beaten to the punch: www.amazon.com/dp/1086039858/. I should check this out. Thanks for watching and for the kind words.
@pielover89
@pielover89 2 жыл бұрын
The double-run rule has upped my (phone) gaming this year, feel bad I missed this beginner rule. I think a further analysis of how much those 10% of break-up hands are off from the keep option. I'd venture to guess the 'mistake' of keeping a double-run is not very costly, or a decent gamble. For your example of 3389910 there is a 13% chance of scoring over 16.
@sdrawkcab190
@sdrawkcab190 9 ай бұрын
I think you could have gone a step further in the research and compare how many points you'd be losing on average for always keeping a double run. In the example hand you gave, you're only giving up 0.63 points by keeping the double straight, and that's only when you're dealing. So on average that's only a 0.32 point mistake. It'd be interesting to see if that's consistent amongst the hands, or if there are specific ones where you'd be missing out on 2 or 3 points on average.
@yesnomaybe1220
@yesnomaybe1220 2 ай бұрын
Do you take pegging into account? I am only four minutes in.
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