The problem is that they aren't wearing Draven heads. I guarantee you. If they start wearing heads of Draven. Objectives will be better.

The problem with them is that the jungler keeps ignoring them. I am the jungler.

A bit off topic but just a funny anecdote. The singular instance where my team has won a 5v5 into elder buff was when i was renata and used the enemy teams elder on them and had them all end eachother, was quite beautiful and made for a moment that ill never forget.

i think that you overstated how important baron has become, it’s basically like half of what it used to be in terms of endablility

the problem with objectives is that people put too much importance on individual dragons which leads to massive gold swings. I've played too many games where it would be wiser and smarter to let the first or second drake go and cross map, but teams will start funneling 1 by 1 into the drake pit trying to steal or stop them taking it only for the enemy to subsequently wipe out the team. which further snowballs the game in their favour

The problem with neutral objectives is that i cant own one. If i can ride my dragon, then league will certainly be more fun

"I have never seen a 5v5 where the team with elder lost" I hadnt seen it either, until zeri happened. TES vs JDG. Casters went crazy

My biggest issue with objectives is how much players believe that it's the end all be all in every game. It's ok to give up the first dragons if your team can't fight them. There's no need to risk a game, or even minion waves for a single cloud dragon. I think the issue is a lot more the 3rd dragon can be too early for some comps to fight, but taking just 1 and giving up the rest is perfectly fine, it forces soul to the 25 minute mark at earliest. Players need to accept that sometimes you can't fight objectives and need to crossmap other things. Take a tower, push waves, clear the enemy jungle camps, get vision somewhere else something

objectives work as intended, esports want big fights as often as possible so go teamfight or lose.

The homogeneity of pace is my biggest gripe about Lol. Give me some Late game turtles VS Splitpush macro gods VS Early game maniacs.

My main gripe with them are 1) the winning team has prio, better vision and stronger teamfight potential so they are more likely to get buffs which exasperate that power gap 2) all the pressure to kill it comes from smite which is unfair to the jungler and somewhat arbitrary 3) elder and baron feel the same/too many buffs

I think objectives can help with split pushing actually because if you know the enemy team wants drag you can split top for free and the same with baron but splitting bot causing them to make a decision stop your split or give up drake and i like that dynamic as annoying as it may be seeing a hull breaker champ going towards my base when drags up knowing we lose to a hull yorick or give drake and there is nothing we can do about it.

What drives me insane about objectives is how some players will just dive endlessly into them and just die for no reason instead of playing for towers or moving waves it’s so annoying because it forces players to always team fight there even if it’s a losing fight for you I hate it so much

I feel like drakes are to weak late game. And I dont mean the buff, I mean the actual drake. A stronger drake would make it easier for the team that doesnt spike at that moment to contest it, and since scalling champs tend to be ranged or have ways to poke in and get out, if the fight takes to long even a 1 item anivia will do significant poke to where neither team can take it. Something I found very interesting was how, of the top 5 "best" 3 early drakes, 3 of them started with cloud, the hardest drake to take early on due to its dmg output making it so that any contest can be deadly, thus meaning that, if you could take it, you were winning by a very decent amount most likely

My biggest complaint with objectives is that the first one, that's dragon, only spawns at 5 minutes. There is little incentive to do anything other than just farm before that point. We used to have scuttle spawning very early and being very valuable. That gave players an objective to play for pretty much from the get go. Nowdays most junglers don't even get to interact with another human player before level 4.

Dota2 Objectives have always felt better since it is more connected to the economy of the team. Rather than just "end game buffs" that keeps the snowballing going.

They won't fix this because more fights = more "OMG!" Moments in games = more people watching/playing = more money for Riot..... They don't want a better game, they want a more profitable game

Off topic but if you're still doing Why No One Plays, I'd love to see one on Xin Zhao. He was the champ I have the most mastery with and who got me into jungling. Yet despie his mini rework in early season 11, his pickrate hasn't become much better. Plus, in your Why No One Plays Trundle, you stated that you would do one on him so I think it would be pretty interesting to see.

I think the current balance is mostly fine. If I could make one change, I'd just tone down Soul a touch so that it's a bit less gg.

I actually think that Rift Herald is the only objective that exacerbates this game's snowball problem. Early drakes are not actually all that impactful, and the soul winrate is really more a correlation than causation. The real reason for the snowball problem is, in my opinion, the massive amount of gold and XP that kills give. Sure, CS is the more reliable source of gold and XP, but when you've got an enemy that kills you and gets gold and XP, then gets to free farm for more uncontested gold and XP it's often too much to come back from. Especially for top laners. The reason why rift herald makes this worse is the massive amount of gold that towers give. Dropping rift in a lane means you snowball the hell out of that laner. Especially if it's a laner that's already ahead. Or it could mean the loss of mid tier 1, which gives so much map control that it highly negatively impacts the chances of winning for the team that loses it.

I think part of the solution would be to have other "weaker" objectives to help offset things like elder and baron. Like a turret buff objective to help you defend

The problem with objectives is that I have no idea what the hell they are!

I think what really put it over the edge was the recent buffs to dragons. It was already getting too hectic as you said but Riot eliminated all doubts with that change.

I agree. I haven't played certain champs in ages anymore. Vayne & Kayle for example. By the time I "potentially" become useful my team either has been stomped hard already or won the game outright by themselves. Objectives help massively in that kind of snowball-effect. It simply doesn't feel worth playing for the lategame anymore, all things considered.

I would like if objective were harder to take with enemy's alive. Perhaps you could have spots behind the walls of the pit where you could feed mana to the baron or dragon to empower it. It would be cool to see more ways other then fighting to make objectives more difficult to take

I agree 100%. I been thinking about this for so long but had no idea how to explain it.

Elder is just like a thing so that the games end abruptly. So sad that with 1 thing even games suddenly end. I just want that elder buff should just make the team that gets it have a good advantage rather than a huge one cuz mostly games are over if the elder have been slain no chance to defend the nexus if they force their way in and have a team fight or maybe I’m wrong.

It's just how you use these buffs you get, or countering the objective for example if they're taking dragon and herald is up take herald and vice versa, I think side objectives are good and I like how it can help you get to the overall objective faster, but some people see the side objectives as paramount when you can win without getting all the side objectives

My name is Walter Hartwell White.

not sure if that related but i would suggest looking at the different map objectives of HoTS, Heroes of the Storm, the blizzard MOBA. I feel like they have a good balance of not needing to contest every objective depending on your team comp/playstyle. idk maybe a thing to draw comparisons to

Your content always bangs

Hey vars! Can you please do a video on anti-tank items? I play tank and every single game i'm getting melted by everyone building anti-tank items to supposedly counter me but counter everyone since the durability update.

The biggest problem imho is just that objectives are becoming generally easier to get with every passing season, expecially game changers like Herald. I think players shouldn't be able to solo Herald so early in the game, giving such a huge advantage to one team by neutering one of their opponent's turret, coupled with turret plating. I get it's bc pro player make plays with them / fighting for them and it's easier to play and watch light-speed matches but I still don't think it's healthy for the game, at all. Too much of a single game is decided by certain objectives and it shouldn't be so easy to get them so early that the other team feels it's already lost at minute 7-8.

I think adding an extra dragon before the map changes would help. This means that soul isn't earned quite as quickly, and that if you have to concede the first few dragons, they are all different and thus less efficient. It would help slow the game down a bit too, as right now you can get soul at like 25 minutes if you're playing for dragons. Also, towers should take less damage from rift when plates are up to lower the giant influx of gold from the first rift.

I love the current objectives. Keeps the games shorter and I enjoy the fights

Often when we're losing map pressure ill sneak a quick drag(except ocean) or herald when a fight breaks out and sometimes that's enough to change the tides of power but sometimes it isnt.

The problem with objectives is location. For example, if all the objectives were at your mom’s house I’d never be there late, and I’d NEVER miss my smite 😏 I think I should add that this is a joke, I’m not actually going to do anything with anyone’s mom.

i wish the game were less early focused so we had time to adapt to our teams strengths and shortcomings. I just feel that everytime I lose it's because my team had no synergy.

Idea: What if the players could effect spawn timers in some way, like, if you take X camp then Y camp will spawn sooner/later? That way you could stall out soul or barron if the enemy are about to push when half your team is dead, or quickly push a drake to spawn when you're behind to snach soul when you're getting destroyed. No idea how it would work balance-wise, probably awful to be honest, but I think it'd be an interesting concept, maybe exclusively for the losing team to give a better chance at comebacks without making winning teams snowball harder. Just something to think about.

Ive had games when my team got the first 2 drakes, ocean and cloud. The soul drake was infernal, my team decided to troll a bit thinking the game was won, they got 4 infernal drakes vs our zero. Same thing has happened when my team was able to get 4 mountain drakes after we focused on rift heralds as my team had a bel veth. 4 of any type of drake is rare, but if you get the perfect soul for your comp and 4 of the drakes it is very powerful

I'd say is a very simplistic way of putting it. Yes, objectives have become the center of the game. However, they to get to them is not always how you mentioned it. Split push, good ults, hyper carries all of that can be used. Let's say for example the Sona twitch situation you mentioned against Pyke Draven. Aoe dmg and how you use it will win you the tf.

theres a little last ditch effort strategy i do when i play kayle, in games far behind, where they have many kills and 2-3 drags. you give the last two dragons also to try to get a clutcb elder sneak or steal to give you just enough of a push to 16

What about adding objective that allowed you to alter spawn time of other objectives?

I think objectives are important as a chance to give a team that's behind a chance to get back into the game. I've had and seen games where giving up soul and dragging the game till elder was a viable strategy. You just have to play slow, farm up and try not to die too much. I've seen it work even in high elo

Yesterday just won a ranked game 4v5 (our support morgana went afk because she thought it was unwinnable) enemy doing elder while we focusing on tower and then recall after getting their inhib. We def and then buff worn out, hesit the baron and then we won! Without that buff it will not be possible and the winning team will always leading ahead and ahead

I swear, I have this problem every game. Players always think that 1 Dragon is worth getting your team killed over... instead of waiting for an advantage state... go in now.

i have to agree was playing a hiemerdinger jg game and i was loosing heavily to a shaco (couldnt gank lanes or fight cause the enemy team had to much movemeant) so as a heimerdinger i just took every dragon by my self and we won we were loosing and even loss baron but cause we never lost a dragon we just won

4:56 is this a graphic setting? I’ve never seen the river look like that

I've seen once match when team in korea challanger elo won teamfight on their base vs team with baron, elder and soul buffs

i feel like part of the problem is just how fast objectives are killed most of them time the other team unless they know their killing the objective wont react to it fast enough because objective use to be risky for how long they toke to kill giving the other team a good enough chance

As others have already said, one of the shittiest feelings regarding objectives is when your team runs head-first into it, thinking they NEED every single one (only jungle runs in alone and misses smite) or are just unprepared to fight for it (getting picked off, no vision, carries behind) As the support I always put vision around it beforehand and chill in a bush while I wait for somebody to come, if they don’t I just let it go. I hope the objective vote helps with that, but I don’t think people will listen to the vote anyway.

Roshan works a bit better in dota since it’s not a be all end all and only revives the holder at cost of an item. A team could get multiple roshans but still lose due to bad siegingetc

I really like how smite does objectives. You only really have to worry about gold fury and pyromancer for teamfights where the reward for those are essentially just gold. Usually at around 17-20 minutes you'll see teamfights for firegiant which is essentially a huge statbuff for your team, think of like a soul or baron. 30 minutes FG becomes EFG which is just an enhanced version. What this essentially means is that the reward for being strong early and mid game is extra gold through objectives, when it comes down to smite late game teamfights at around 17-20 mins that is usually the point where one of three scenarios occurs. If team A is stronger than team B early then usually team A will have those gold mobjectives and should have a gold lead, therefore they should be able to win teamfights If team B Manages to scale or stay relatively even despite the losing early then they are rewarded by being the better comp at the later teamfights. Because smite doesnt have well smite as a mechanic anyone can steal objectives which leads to more hype plays or bigger potential comebacks, i feel like in league the only way to make a true comeback if the enemy team dicks on ur base is if elder spawns. I think forcing people roughly to fight every 5 minutes starting at 7-8 minutes with dire consequences if you give up the first two will only lead to a more unhealthy gamestate, the only way to make a comeback in league outside of elder is through fighting and essentially hoping the enemy team trolls. It's even worse because you can't fucking FF half the games because realistically ur only getting out at 20 minutes and then to half ur team you're already commited

I agree with your opinion. Objectives need to be significant enough to make a difference but if they are so important that everything revolves around them then I think that is well problematic. I am a support main and back in the day everyone ignored objectives. Then objectives became significant. Then objectives became the most important thing ever. I feel like the first and last are not healthy while the middle one is. I certainly feel like my job as a support main has become significantly harder now that so much emphasis is put on securing neutral objectives. It would be nice if objectives were still important but not apocalyptically so

Hahaha the clip at 4:04 is amazing

Funny you described my game this morning. Farmed well, didn't die but then my lane roamed, I ping danger because I was walking back to lane but the 3v3 was already lost and my base just got annihilated by Rift Herald. It was still fun but felt like a cheap win for them.

One big thing that i felt with dragon changes was that it effectively killed tank junglers, you need damage to take dragon, else its difficult, especially in low elo, where wards might not be plenty and default expectation is to solo , not to mention time comes at cost of other objectives.

The solution is really simple, like you can make kills give less gold/exp, and while a double edge sword, buff global gold back to it's original, that way if let's say you botlane is losing badly but your mid/top is winning you can get your botlane back on their feet by taking a tower or two and ofc, REVERT THE DAMN TP CHANGE, we all know that adcs hate it when it's 5v5 botlane at 8 minutes, but me as a toplaner also hates when i see my botlane gets smacked so hardly and enemy jg camping them and i can't do anything to stop the bleed

hey i know this is completly out of the blue, but any chance you could make a secondary channel about Dota2 ? your level of analysis is really great and having some of it on dota would be cool

the thing i will always hate the objectives for is the fact that youre not only playing from behind, but enemy will get buffs from drakes that you will never equal out on. the incentive on them should be gold lead, which helps a team close out the game faster. come backs are super hard and not being able to contest a drake cuz you cant even win a teamfight is an awful situation. you will play from behind, and your only chance at a comeback is solely based on the enemy being too arrogant. outmaneuvering enemy team in solo (atleast under diamond rank) is near impossible with the lackluster communication and people refusing to play as a team.

Can anyone explaine what a baron is and what it does in a game? i’m new.

My #1 problem is Herald. I'd say remove herald, and have it so dragon has a random chance to swap sides each spawn, or rework herald. An idea for a rework: maybe make it an objective that benifets the support, it gives them a reason to go top, and possibly helps with, say, gold income so they can get items around the same rate as everyone else, or have it give stats amp. Maybe the support item at the begining would determine what those stats are, like spelltheif gives heal/sheild amp, relic sheld gives HP/AP/AR&MR. I feel like supports (not just in league but in other games) should be more than heal/cc bots and have more agency/impact, giving them their own objective would be a massive part of that, it puts a rather neglected/overlooked role into the primary flow of gameplay. There's alot of "what can the support do for the team" not alot of "what can the team to for the support" As to why I hate herald: Hate how if you're winning lane, winning only by plates, or tied, herald just invalidates all of that. It's even worse when you're losing because it makes it so you just can't come back, and you're stuck in lane for even longer while your opponent gets to have impact all over the map. This is especially evident to toplane, where getting out of lane is basically the main goal, and now you're either stuck farming after having the lead, or you're playing roblox farming simulator for 20 minutes when you're losing. If any of my points were brought up in the video, I'll be honest, I just saw the title and it's something I've been talking with friends about as of late, and wanted to put my thoughts down.

whats worse is having teammates who doesnt wanto play for objectives when youre clearly able, since i know we will be at huge disadvantage when we dont get it to add insult to injury, couple of my friends basically only wants fire drake, because dmg honestly wish rito would back-off a tiny bit when it comes to objectives in the game, i know the game is, in my opinion healthier than before the objectives, but now its just too much

Objectives cannot be potentially bad for any MOBA, because this is the only thing that literally keeps game from being stale. Think about this: if there are no objectives, no ways to get significant advantage over enemy team alternatively from snowballing by fraging, trading or destroying turrets, then there is no point in this game even being 5 vs 5. Nobody needs to rotate and assemble, becasue it doesn't make sense to leave lanes AT ALL. In the world of no objectives, the only valueable things left - are turrets and nexus. The very best thing, and probably the only wincon that would remain is to simply continue pressuring every side lane. And then the game boils down to "who can stomp their lane opponent harder to the pont where it is impossible to comeback". Objectives may seem unfun at times, because of how many opportunities it can create for actually coordinated team against the one that is poor at communicating, but that is, and i would argue SHOULD BE the point of the moba game. Otherwise why not just get rid of turrets, inhibitors, minions, camps and everything? Leave only arena to fight and make it just straight up ARAM! Oh wait... even ARAM has objectives. I think instead of trying to justify existence of the only thing that keeps game together, we should go in exact opposite direction - the game needs MORE objectives. They could easily solve a lot of gamedesign problems that we currently have. For example: what is toplane? why toplane should matter outside of it's proximity to herald or item meta? The answer: we could add unique neutral objective in toplane, that could be accessible only by toplaners. That would be the point of interest, capturing which could grant unique rewards for the team. Depending on how you design the objective itself, you may even dictate meta around it. Let's imagine that in toplane, somewhere there is circle that activates ones in 5 minutes. And let's say that in order to capture objective you need to stay inside the circle (if enemy steps into circle with you, nobody gets priority on objective until one dies or leaves). If you make circle small enough, then in becomes really awkward for any ranged champ to fight for it. Boom! And now picking ADC on top immediately becomes more punishing. That's just 1 small example of how objectives can fix gamedesing problems without overnerfing anything or nesessarilty reworking something that already works.

Idk but I feel baron has lost his "ultimate objective" place since watching the finals it feels like dragons are the real objective and baron is some little extra buff

My issue is that you get flamed as the jungler for missing objectives but then no lanes have priority for you to get them, and when you focus ganking to get the lanes priority everyone pushes the wave out then backs and doesn't bother helping anyway -.-

In my opinion, your agrument about 3 different dragons having a higher winrate is wrong. My point of view is that if u have 3 different dragons, you had most likely 2 winning lanes, mid and bot, therefore you were able to secure those dragons. That means your team was in a lead even without a dragons, which impacts the winrate as well. In soloque, having earlygame or lategame champions doesnt impact the game state that much, players blunders do. Katarina can lose a lane to a Viktor, Twitch and Sona can get a gank and snowball from there on etc. So I personally view number of neutral objectives secured in the early game just as a marker, how did this specific game go, not as a indicator why did it go like that.

Feels bad when I secure the elder dragon for my team, and then they split up, take some jungle farm, muck around and get caught 1 by 1. :( rip promo game.

With old school Warwick I used to gain massive advantage through a level 3 dragon solo

what why is water white at 1:01

I think the problem with objectives in any moba is that they are either too light or too heavy. Take Heroes of the Storm, objectives there can mean the difference between victory and defeat because they provide such a significant advantage for the team that takes them. But comparatively Dota 2 has Roshan, and while Roshan is impactful, he is never impactful enough to be game deciding until you kill him for the third or 4th time. And even then you can still absolutely render most of his benefits worthless by simply being the more skilled team and using your items at the correct time. League has both a healthy and unhealthy balance. Objectives are too weak at first but at the same time they can snowball to unrealistic proportions when you consider Dragon souls and taking Baron while a team is dead. They are situationally game deciding but at the same time can also be situationally not worth it. Determining their value comes solely on the player and their input in the game. At the same time, bot lane in general has more power than top lane due to how powerful dragon is in comparison to a semi fed bruiser/Split pusher and as a result creates a lot of disbalance and weight in league. In my opinion league needs to figure out what Toplane should look like in future and consider overhauling it. Because right now it has one of the lowest impact's on a game's outcome. So you either nerf dragon impact as a whole or buff Top lane's overall impact on the game, and either seem like difficult choices.

Turtling for late game is still a very good and common win con, late game simply comes earlier. Splitpushing is still an extremely strong strategy, but it loses effectiveness over the course of a game. It becomes more and more rewarding for a team to collapse on a splitpusher because of high death timers, low R cds and low anti-ward cd. And by its very essence, splitpush should still remain a niche strategy since it avoids teamfight, which is a core aspect of lol: 1v1 / 2v2 laning early into bigger 5v5 fights late. Also splitpush is got even more macro intensive then it used to be. With stronger towers, it is harder to dive in 1v1. So splitpush requires better macro reading + better spiking + more various followup strategies. I feel like whenever riot makes an overall game change, it is extremely relevant. Platings, first blood tower, outer tower extra gold, gold increased local reduced global, tower buff, elemental dragon, rift herald, elder dragon, bounty system, jgl flowers, control ward disabling vision, higher ward cd and duration, etc Some champs, items or runes may make the game nightmarish, but global system never does.

Agree. There is not enough support for variety of win con in lol. It is who has best team fight. Gold should be the only avenue for combat stats and objectives should be centered around other win conditions. Like increasing dmg to towers or popping plates. It seems like split pushing is the only other win con ppl even know about.

"the team that took the first 2 drakes is likely to be already ahead" this is not true at all. in a lot of instances the more scaling comp or 2 item powerspike champs dominate the 3rd drake.

WW JG main with almost 1million mastery, Warwick is great and can solo almost every objective given that lanners keep proper lane pressure. I'll even solo first dragon at lvl 4 if I can..I hate getting JG diff when my team has never given me any support tho I will be fighting both top lanners while my teammates are still in their lane uping their cs and just ignoring what's going on..From personal experience it's important to take every dragon..the only one you mite not take is the first.

I will take game ending objectives any day over what we had before where games could go for 60 min+ those were horrible days where like you could afk farm. It is also just way more interesting to watch since the games are not dragged on and conflict is encouraged. Now adays if a game is more than 35 min thats considered long which imo is good

I feel like objwctives can be more nuanced than they seem, for example if i am a splitpusher and I see both teams setting up for drake i can purposefully leave my team to take multiple towers on my own. Objectives draw attention to specific points on the map which allows new playstyles to be born from them. My playstyle is largely based on getting a gold lead and splitting across the map while sporadically fighting for objectives to make the enemy team have to play largely around my macro decisions. Too many games have been thrown by teams who didnt send enough people to stop me while they fought for soul. If im playing kayle i can use dragon fights as an opportunity to power farm in safety getting to my win condition faster. Objectives are also decisions, sometimes it is necessary to fight for drake, sometimes it is better to avoid the fight and exert pressure in other ways. Sometimes you can secure objectives by playing around a fed toplaner purposefully overextending. Objectives set a rhythm but they also give the choice to ignore said rhythm

The problem is only Herald and Elder drake, they give the biggest changes, You can get 2 heralds in one match, that can literally end the match right then and there if the enemy team doesn't focus it. And elder drake, is as said in the video a match ender. It simply is too powerful. Soul drake and baron are powerful, but not match deciders. Baron gives an op buff, but there's no point in it if the enemy knows how to stop the push, or your team dies and loses it. Soul drake is also very powerful, But still not powerful enough to change the odds as much as herald or elder. I have had several situation where even tho enemy team had soul drake, they still lost, soul drake won't change the fact that you got allies that can't play and the Emmy team knows how to, elder drake on the other hand, you just need to do deal DMG and done. Herald you just need to put it on a lane and done. Now professional play and high rank are surely a whole nother story.

my solution would be a team oriented objective all players contribute tords if they chose to, while the neutrals remain as timed events. let's say it is something that needs gold...like a large ass hextech powered wave of extra strong minions, that you need to give gold at the shop to buy, and then vote to send out. That would mitigate the need to continually fight neutrals, instead letting a team that's really good in turtling make something/create a counter force to the enemy advance. Adversely, why not add a few legend with comeback mechanics? Like a shadow isles mage that gatheres the fallen bits of friendly minions or broken bits of towers/lost objectives, and uses it as a resource...to create minions, make terrain, make minions or allies stronger, gain extra gold. Hell, why not add someone who plays into the stored energy concept even more then sett. A brawler or a juggernaut that gets more impactful the more he survives....like adaptive shielding. I.e. If he leaves a fight alive with low hp, he gains bonus Hp to a percentage of his lost hp, or if he is versing someone heavy in ap or ad, he gains stacking resistance bonuses to that one thing. small amounts tho, only enough to just about win the next fight if played right, with the bonuses resetting after death.

The game definitely has become too early and mid game focused, despite the pro scene being all late game. It's why you see nerfs very often on late game scalers and little to no nerfs on the early and mid game champions. Problem is _getting_ to that late game with your scaler. It's why marksmen went from champions like Ashe, Caitlyn, etc. to Samira and Nilah; both of them are early and mid game "marksmen" (the point of a marksman is you're fighting from range; both champs have melee in their kits, not true marksmen) and while both begin to fall off by the 28/30 minute mark, it means little. Here's something Riot should do: Have the dragons spawn every 6 minutes vs. 5. Here's my reasoning behind it. 1: It allows both sides to be at least level 6 with a key item component potentially made, barring said deaths. 2: It delays the spawn of elder by a significant amount as the earliest it can now spawn is about 30 minutes compared to the 25 it currently is. 3: It'll put a bigger focus on the main objectives; the enemy's defenses. 4: It allows the team that's behind a better chance of coming back. Whether Riot does that or not is another story, but it'll definitely help the overall health of the game and prevent me from trying out a new season's changes before just logging in for First Win via Co-Ops or just playing ARAM.

I really agree with this, but for a worse reason. That reason being, the role with the most impact is jungle to the point every other role's priority is irrelevant until high elo. If you are on a team where your jungle is significantly worse, even if the enemy jungle didn't get good ganks off the game is pretty much over due to objectives and map pressure. The issue isn't that objectives are too powerful. The issue is that objective strength adds even further on to a role's overall agency and power level that is already way way too impactful to the point where most games can reasonably be decided by jungle diff given nobody else gets hyperfed and solo carries. Objective strength is just a symptom of the over impactfulness of jungle on games through ganking, map pressure, and objective control through the early and mid game. If the role could somehow be reeled back and agency and impact given more towards laners, if jungle could revert back to "a second support," then the game would feel far more balanced and come back opportunities more plentiful. I honestly know how this could be done too, it's really simple. Make support items copy xp instead of having them steal xp from bot laners so the bot lane is on a comparable level to mid and jungle and top, and then revert TP changes so it can be used freely early game by top again. It was only OP due to bot lane experience differential in the first place. If bot lane was the same level as jg, "better jungle" can't automatically dictate dragon control regardless of bot lane skill by having ult while no one else does, and if bot was the same level as mid and jungle then top lane doesn't decide the fate neither and simply exists as a fifth person rather than a "game decider" for bot lane. I firmly believe every single problem in league of legends can be traced to Riot's reluctance to allow bot lanes to scale at the same pace as everyone else, it baffles me why they insist on it. If bot laners could scale, then top could be changed to not be an island, and the jungle wouldn't be a raid boss early and mid game. There would be far more agency for everyone and also would arguably lead to more interesting games and skirmishes for viewers.

I think it's good the way that you can't play a full late game team I think it's good the way it is you must have early game power and late game power just equilibrate your team comp but now in solo queue you can't really control the picks of your teammates and that's can lead to a full late game team

It's also the fact that if you're a mid-late focused mid or jungle, you don't have to put just 2 to 3 times the effort of early oriented champs, it's closer to 7 times more difficult to take them if not more. The early game's impact is completely blown out of proportion, to the point where only non-early champions with kit-integrated scaling like Kayn, Syndra or Viktor are considered solid, I haven't seen a Taliyah stomp her mid in forever (and that's when I see one at all).

I still remember when Morde could ult dragon, that was the DBZ we all wished for :D Just no balls in-game..

the emphasis on objectives and how make or break they are definitely dashes a lot of the comeback and fun of that

What is a catch 22 ?

Audio was kinda weird this video? Dunno if you changed mics but the old one was better

its a pro vs casual play thing. in pro play whitout the whole dragon souls and elder. we had matches where people would farm for 40 minutes. had 1 fight and the game was over. it gives some reason to clash for proffesional teams. however in soloque. giving up 1 aint bad. giving up 2 is doable. but once they hit 3, there is always this creeping fear of soul..

I like the... diversity in gameplay the different arenas take, but the objectives themselves are kinda hit and miss. It'd be neat if they did something like remove/move baron and have two dragons that spawn at a time, taking one, means you lose the other to the other team from over-extending. And the rift buffs you get based on dragon, become one-sided, like if you have a bunch of champs who love using bushes to their advantage, boom, you prioritize the dragons that result in you having the enhanced jungle bushes (Water soul? I don't remember I only play this casually at best.) But that's just an idea, I don't even know if I think it's a good one. All I know is I WAY preferred how Heroes of the Storm did objectives, you could be WAY more tactical in that game to me. Like, if there was a big team fight going on, sometimes it WAS worth it to not be in the team fight and take some secondary objective. In League teamfights are WAY more punishing.

I have a lot to say on this topic, I broadly agree with your criticism of modern league's neutral objectives (they are really impactful and that tends almost force teams to fight over them). What I find interesting is that you *neglected* to mention towers in talking about objectives. Because they are most important objectives in the sense that they are a *requirement* to destroy in order to win (any 3 from *1* lane plus the inhibitor, plus 2 nexus towers). Towers used to be a *lot* harder to take later on in the game, now, we have tower plates that make outer towers artificially hard to take prior to 14 minutes into the game (but reward you in gold for beating on them enough), after that the other towers are really made of paper and not even that dangerous to anyone that's actually invested in tank stats (ofc, without minions the tower suddenly because nearly invulnerable thanks to backdoor protection, but if not for that, many juggernauts could literally 1v1 towers at 20 minutes). One of the things that would improve the pacing of the game (and extend average game times) would be inner and inhibitor towers being harder to take (ditto nexus towers). This would be a nice counterweight to the current high value neutral objectives (it would give a team in an advantaged position but that doesn't scale well something to do besides immediately trying to end to address their lacking late game), and games that on a more even footing could still have neutrals playing a important role. Another consequence of making towers harder to take is that split pushing would become more effective (this is because the risk of your team being outmatched defending 4v5 isn't going to cost as much as quickly), they could even tune minion damage to towers up to reward effective wave manipulation (and push defending teams who rotate poorly). Additionally, the current pushing power of super minions is honestly crazy high and making losing even 1 inhibitor a major setback in your ability to project any presence out on the map. This could be curtailed (in favor of making them very resistant to tower damage, and thus making it important for a team that is dealing with 1 or more downed inhibitors have to not ignore a super minion wave that's pushing in, but also make it easier to at least temporarily relieve that pressure so that they can get out of the map and have a window to contest something of importance.

While I'm agree from the player agency standpoint, I kinda like that objectives are forcing fights, mainly cause I hate playing against set ups with hypercarry + lulu + smth else turtling to the late. It's boring af to play with and to play against.

Back when dragon was just a glorified camp, the only times a team went for one was when they had a Mordekaiser that could ult it and use it as his pet.

HOTS have best Objectives , you kill camp and camp rise up and go push enemy team, this really good option

My problem is that they buffed the hp of early drakes too hard. If I play rammus do a successful botlane gank but my bot is to low hp to help me out for drake with bami cinders I can't clear that shit within 40 seconds

As a toplaner, i usuall, only ever see objectives as icons in the feed, and wether my team or the enemy team got it.

what I lile about Herors of the storm Is the objectives are the only thing that matter and that makes all funniest

Worst thing to see is that my bot lane dies in the first 3 min, and me as a jungle dont have prio on bot anymore for the rest of the game

10:22 *Laughs in mute and crescendoes anyone in site for that nunu to Smite Q the dragon*

I ask about the forgotten rework of xerath

The game plans are very repeatable and play in patterns. The strategies are very static, Whether focus dragon, splitpush or First tower. it's almost like there is handbook on when you should do what, what are your team options and what to do next. The game need some random events or objectives, Nexus bliz style is one of the way to implement this, but change away from arcade style of cause.