Ey, so this video probably will make some people mad as it talks about some games that make people mad, so please be nice to each other and to me lol. In general though, lemme know what you think about frustration being used in games. When is too much? Should they avoid it entirely? Do you like when games piss you off? Is your name Gary?

The biggest factor for me is time. When I was a kid and had infinite time to play, frustration was a fun challenge. Now as an adult with very limited game time, I don't want to waste that just getting frustrated with something during my break.

*My frustration was having to see my gang not having enough faith.*

"These characters terrible personalities are so well developed I actually hate being around them at any point." That's a good game.

I don’t know if Guarma had that effect on me but it’s such a small section it didn’t really bother me that much anyway. I was more just confused by how pointless it seemed and slightly disappointed that I couldn’t explore the island and have a few good side quests. But the way you explain it that restriction makes sense in the long run. I was also shocked by how slow paced rdr2 was from the beginning, it was so different from pretty much any other AAA title. And I absolutely loved that slowness. It felt right for the atmosphere, the setting, the character.

There is an extremely thin line between "frustratingly challenging" and "frustratingly f*ck this game." When you start feeling like it's the games fault why you're failing, that's when tension becomes frustration, and frustration quickly turns into resounding disappointment.

I've known for a long time now that I'm in the minority of players that didn't mind Guarma. In fact, it has one of my favourite scenes in the entire story - "...You keep killin' folk, Dutch..."

The first time I ever realized a game was purposely trying to frustrate me it was Hotline Miami. It's been a few years since I've played it but there was a level where your character ends up in a hospital and because the character is injured and maybe a little crazy the game completely shifts into this hard to control, annoying and dizzying hospital level; where you have to escape the hospital while dealing with the questions the kinda confusing story has set. I remember being really annoyed with it but as a 13 year old it was the first time I went "Oh this is 100% intentional but I don't think I like it."

Your section in The Last Guardian totally resonated with me. I remember complaining the entire game about Trico and how frustrating the gameplay was, and then the ending was so beautiful I cried and I was sad to leave the world. I didn’t even realize how much connection was being built in those hard moments

I feel like frustration in games is like tension in music. There can't be resolution in music without tension, so songs that are all major or too simple are just boring. Similarly, games with little frustration rarely give you a sense of accomplishment when you beat them. However, songs with too much tension just sound dissonant and are not enjoyable to listen to, and if a game is much more frustration than reward it usually won’t be fun to play for the average player. Basically fine in small doses, but above that it depends more and more on the person and it’s harder to say the game is objectively good.

What makes the Guarma section seem intentional to me is that your feelings as the player mirror the feelings of Arthur. Feeling exhausted, disillusioned by the people (characters) around you, feeling apathetic to the things people (the game) are always pushing you to do, wanting time to take a breather and soak up the more simple pleasures of life (the game). You want me to say it?!?! FINE! It’s ludonarrative harmony!

Having extreme ADHD I tend to have a habit of blazing through games and never being able to take it slow. For some reason, I was able to very much enjoy and have a very slow pace with this game and delve into just about every side quest possible. I never could articulate or understand what made me able to enjoy the slow pace of the game until now. Solid video all around

This is genuinely one of the best analyses of The Last of Us 2 I've ever seen, for either side, and it's just a few minutes long.

I think Red Dead 2 is one of those kinds of games where you shouldn’t really play it like a normal video game. I went into it years after release, hearing all sorts of critiques about how slow it is, how strict the mission objectives are, and how generally tedious some animations and systems are. I think this put me in a mindset where I thought “If this is gonna be a slow old cowboy game, I’m gonna play it like a slow old cowboy”. I’ve very rarely role-played my character as hard as I did in this game, but I think doing so helped me enjoy this game far more than if I didn’t. I took the game really slowly. Hunting, gambling, and exploring between almost every single mission. Usually I try to beat games fairly quickly, but I took my time with Red Dead 2 and enjoyed every second of it. Quiet moments at night sitting around the campfire, watching the sunset reflect off the ocean, sitting down by a cabin surrounded by snow-tipped trees, watching lightning rip through the sky from a mountain ranger’s outpost. These slow, quiet moments are the ones I remember the most from Red Dead 2, and the ones I don’t think many other games will give me.

I just love taking the game slow even when I know the story mission is more important. I like to take breaks from heavy narritive parts and just relax by either side mission or mostly just explore and find new things. I love it when developers add those moments that focus on taking break like ones you mentioned about Hollow Knights benches where you can stop and reflect.

When it comes to Guarma, I felt pretty similarly the first time around. I was even taken aback, because the story was so good up to that point, and Guarma had felt like an excuse to extend the runtime of the game, and not in meaningful way (think the whole Casino planet fiasco from The Last Jedi). I was itching to get back. I hated not having my guns, not having my horse, and not being around characters I liked. But thats why I think it worked. Because anything we as the player felt, Arthur felt it doubled. Its a more subtle way of becoming closer to the player character then forcing us to play through their backstory, as TLOU2 did. We didnt need to be spoon fed Arthur’s frustration, because we were already feeling it. And further, I think the chapter as whole is a reflection on Arthur’s frustration with Dutch, and feeling trapped with him. Even the missions (which may have felt pointless and boring to some; I personally enjoyed sinking the ship, that was awesome), are a reflection of Arthur’s frustration because he’s probably thinking the same thing we are: Why the hell am I running around a Godforsaken island? Because of Dutch. Arthur’s lack of trust in Dutch begins here, and is only accelerated after he finds out about his TB. I only realized this after the game, as well. I still think that maybe there could have been a better way to do it, although I cant say I know how. But replaying the game and getting to the section was much more enjoyable the 2nd time. And of course, the return from Guarma gave us one of the best scenes in the game, along with that phenomenal soundtrack. Anyways, in short, I believe that frustration should be using sparingly, unless your whole game is used for that exact purpose. Its a difficult field to travel as developer because gamers are so picky these days (whether we admit it or not). We have high standards so there’s a lot of balancing needed. Honestly, how frustration is used depends on the game, and whether or not you play it for fun, for a cinematic experience, or for a bit of both.

Totally agree with you. Being freed from stranded on Guarma, I felt more free than ever and I took my sweet time before finishing the main story

Guarma also did help arthur realize how far Dutch has gone, its incredibly effective narratively.

The best frustration in RDR 2 was in the city of Saint Denis. I found it frustrating to move around in and explore as there were too many people and the streets were small, with sharp corners. However, it made me appreciate the wild country much more than I had before, which I'm guessing was intentional so you could connect with Arthur's feelings of hate towards civilisation and the city in general

I think Guarma is suppose to make you feel homesick and appreciate the world of Rdr2 more. Even Arthir says he is homesick which is how they want the player to feel. (They want the player to feel the same as Arthur and they do that well here)

Generally, if a game is sufficiently pissing me off, I'll usually just drop it. I get enough frustration from Real Life without needing to experience it from my games too.

I have the same feelings on the Guarma section. It was empty and tedious and it made me avoid the story missions-and I think that was absolutely the point. It drives you, as the player, to put yourself in Arthur's shoes. You stop caring about the end goal and you go off into the wilderness to live a new life. The slow, meditative moments after Guarma are what I remember the game for. Rarely have I developed such a personal connection with a character.

IMO, frustration has to be novel. It's great when it breaks the monotony, but it can't be the core mechanic in a 50 hour title.

It's interesting to me that in some cases, games that explicitly centre around frustration (e.g. Getting Over It)... calm me down. They bring a sense of serenity with them. Perhaps this relates to the specific _kind_ of frustration or the mechanics that induce it, but I'm still not quite sure exactly why. I don't _like_ feeling frustrated, but I still like playing Getting Over It. Maybe part of it is that failure is expected. It's a place to fail in peace, rather than in hectic, high-stakes real life situations. That's my hypothesis, anyway. But it feels therapeutic and helps me de-stress, and reminds me that failing isn't the end of the world. As long as you're happy with the effort you put in, the result doesn't always matter.

Embracing the slow pace completely revolutionized RDR2 for me. My first run, when I was, well... *running* through the game. Yeah, slowing things down was tedious. But I replayed recently. And embraced the immersion. Little things, like leading my horse down valentines main drag instead of mashing A. Surveying a gang camp with binoculars from the wood line before going in. Stopping and split pointing my bullets. Basically, playing it like it's a movie I'm watching instead of like gta cowboy. It took it from one of my favorite games, to my absolute favorite game.

You just listed all reasons to why the selected gang members in Guarma were the best possible combination.

Interestingly enough, I think I'm less okay dealing with games that are designed to be frustrating than I am dealing with games that become frustrating the more I push their features to their limits. I think its probably due to the fact that I have more control over my experience that way.

you PERFECTLY explained my feeling returning to the normal map after escaping guarma. i took the longest time continuing story missions and really took the time to enjoy moments with arthur, my horse and the beautiful world. i have the nicest memories playing the game just roaming around and chilling.

Surprising that you didn’t talk about the roots of video games themselves. Games used to be intentionally difficult and frustrating because old systems didn’t have the capabilities to play large games so they took their games that would take a half hour to beat and made them intentionally difficult so they would take hours

You saying R* tricked me into wanting to get that Majestic Deer ending by making me frustrated at the story mission NPCs? If so, that's brilliant because that widow in the woods, and the old army vet by the lake.. those are good memories.

"I think there's a lot of value in trying to understand why people both love and hate a specific thing" It's lines like these that are I love this channel. The things you say and questions you pose, while they are about gaming, are often extrospective. They do more than look into games and discover what makes them good or bad. It takes a step back and looks at the video game medium as an art style rather than just a few hours of fun. it is okay for video games to be frustrating because art can sometimes be frustrating.

Keep in mind that more than 90% of what was planned for Guarma ended up being cut out in the final game. The playing area of Guarma was originally going to be much much larger

This is really interesting. I thought you were going to be against frustration but you ended up approaching it in a way that made me think. Very cool! (I work in game design and your videos are always giving me food for thought.)

I had a similar experience to your own with rdr2 when I played ghost of tsushima. At the start of the game I fought most enemies head on because it was the best, and often only, method of dispatching enemy groups. However, as the game progressed, I realized that I was doing it less and less because the new tools I was being given were just too powerful. Why spend time getting the parry times right when I could just headshot them with the bow, or immediately knock them down with a bomb or poison them. This dawned on me around act 3 and I thought it was super cool how the gameplay organically incentivized me to change playstyle to match Jin's tranformation into the ghost, precisely because it wasn't something the game spelled out for me. It just slowly happened. It made the moments when Jin was confronted resonate so much more with me because it WAS true. Jin had gone from a samurai to an assassin during my gameplay and so I was right there with him during those story scenes. It was a change we both shared. Now, as you said, stuff like this is murky. It could have been a happy accident that happened because the balance for these new tools was off. You could very well argue that making the melee combat almost obsolete is bad design. Still, that realization and connection with the story was very memorable for me. Stuff like this is what sets videogames apart, where the interactive part of it directly enhances the product's other aspects. Its something that devs should actively strive to pull off with their games imo

9:33 I just love how here you’re describing how a certain type of player wouldn’t be able to get past the frustration but to my Dark Souls lensed perspective the clip you showed was of someone getting extremely lucky and not falling to their death.

I just love this videos. Continue with the great work!

On more mechanical level, frustration can also push players to engage with game's systems in order to remove source of frustration - both serving as organic tutorial and giving satisfaction of solving a problem they experienced. Factorio handles it quite well - you unlock automation around the time crafting everything manually becomes slow, you unlock bots and ability to copy-paste designs when building becomes tedious, you gain ability to trivialize enemies completely at a point when they shift from being challenge to being an annoyance.

"which has bred a community of die-hard fans through the shared experience of suffering." Damn, you didn't hold back at all lol

I was literally telling my husband last night that one of my favorite things about the modern Frogwares Sherlock Holmes games is how quickly they let you skip through the mandatory minigames. But the trick there is that I'm not going to Sherlock Holmes for a lockpicking minigame or a shoe shining minigame, I'm going to solve mysteries. The game forces you to play the actual mystery solving, but lets you skip just about everything else if you wait long enough, which is great because then I don't get stuck on some stupid action set piece while playing a mystery game. L.A. Noire did this too. I think it's fair to let people skip parts that aren't central to the experience. In open world games most of that stuff becomes side activities, but in more linear games where you'd get stuck at a stupid unpickable lock, you should be able to skip.

I tend to play a lot of games at once, and if I get tired of a game I'll usually just drop it. However, sometimes I think back to the games I played _before_ I really considered myself a gamer. Back when I only played a game or two a year (sometimes less often than that) every game stuck with my so much more. Doom 2016, Portal 2, and Mario Odyssey all had moments where I felt like I'd hit a wall and thought to myself, "I'm not good enough at games to get past this." But since each of those games were the _only_ game on my plate when I played through them respectively, I kind of had no choice but to tough it out. And you know what? To this day I have clearer, fonder memories of the example games I mentioned than almost anything I've played since gaming became my main hobby. I remember stabbing the Cyber Demon with his own horns, finally climbing my way out of Old Aperture to confront Wheatley, and dancing with Pauline at the New Donk City Festival because I _earned_ those moments. I've gotten used to dropping games if I get frustrated and because of that I don't think many games have come close to recreating that magical feeling I felt when I first started to experiment with gaming. I recently started making an effort to only play one game at a time and really commit to it, regardless of difficulty. Even if a game gets frustrating for a time, the long-term satisfaction of finally progressing is unparalleled in other media.

Ahhhh I’m so bummed you didn’t mention Doom Eternal! Hugo Martin (the creative director) has a ton of great videos talking about the importance of tastefully frustrating the player

As long as there is moments of relief between the tension then it's fine, kind of like working your way towards a boss fight. A game that does this well is hades. Even though you lose over and over again it isn't frustrating knowing that you're going to get stronger each time. I feel like if you don't get a time to relax you'll get burn out quickly from a overly frustrating game.

Hades and Celeste frustrated me a lot playing it, but in a good way as I keep coming back over and over and over again.

RDR2 and TLOU2 are in my top 3 favourite games (BOTW coming in third). I have experienced real trauma and hardship in my life and both of these games had that sense of real grief and the human condition which I could connect with. Both games were raw, and unsettling, and connected me in a way that no other TV show book or video game ever has. To me these games are truly masterpieces and I found both of them very emotionally challenging, but in particular the last of us part 2. That game truly takes the cake for me.

Every video I watch of yours is absolutely amazing, keep up the good work lad!

Well there's also frustration from wildly untested RNG or "allies" getting in the way of anything you're trying to do (like shooting a legendary you're trying to collect in the face).

When games get too frustrating I often stop playing entirely. I can't deal with the stress that the frustration gives me

One of my favorite moments from Borderlands 2 and one that always springs to mind whenever I think about it comes about halfway through the game. You return to the town of Sanctuary, your home base, after a story mission. And all of a sudden, the town is under attack by an orbital bombardment from the Hyperion Corporation. With no other option, your companion Lilith decides to use her Siren magic powers to get the town airborne and teleport it out of harm's way. However, during this you, the player, end up warped outside of Sanctuary and witness it being teleported away... without you on board. Your base, where you keep all your best loot in the vault and where you can buy upgrades, is just gone. All that remains is a smoldering crater in the ground where Sanctuary once stood, and a marker on your map in an unknown region where your companion on the radio says you can find a teleporter that can get you back to Sanctuary's new airborne location. So all you can do is take one last look at that crater, turn right around and walk back to the beginning areas of the game, summon a car, and start the long drive to that new marker on your map. I just never understood why I remembered this moment so fondly until now.

My frustration was being forced to walk in the camp. I’ve been holding this grudge for three years now

AAA games have a real problem with churning out bland, easy to digest games over and over again, so when one takes an artistic risk, we need to encourage them--even if we don't like the particular risk taken--for the sake of diversifying the medium.

Holy crap, every single video you make blows my mind.

Great video !! Real relevant conversations about the state of gaming.

I'm kinda surprised there wasn't a Celeste reference in this one. One of my all time favorites but I'll be the first to admit it's intentionally frustrating and the game uses the frustration as a motif in its storytelling.

I had the opposite happen, I was constantly exploring and helping everyone I met to the point the amidiate area was running low on quests. Guarma made refocus on the story as it took center stage while on my 2nd time around it made dread because i knew that after that island it's only gonna go down hill

You are growing to be one of my favourite youtuers, you love games as much as I do, for the same reasons! Wish I could have a game sesh with you when back in the day

Damn. Someone that actually understands the point of tlou2. Respect.

Even though I may not always agree with creator and dev decisions, I like when they take some risks. It means I’m not being given a reskin of the first game. I would much rather devs be creative and design with care than for them to dispassionately slap together a game.

I really like how you’re putting this, I mod the heck out of skyrim to make is as tough and realistic as the game can be, the cold can kill you, the combat is unforgiving and the story missions are very hard. So after a couple main missions I just walk around for a while, I have fast travel turned off at all times so wandering is very calming, and I often find good side quests that I didn’t know about before and I’m actually invested in them because I’m not so worried about getting through it I just experience it. I also can have multiple followers but sometimes I choose to have none which somehow makes thing easier to take in and enjoy. And with how difficult I’ve made the game I’m at level 18 and I’ve only been to 3 of the holds. I have so much exploring ahead of me and it feels very large, which makes taking it is small bits so important

love your videos keep up the good work man!

You do a great job unpacking how frustration can be intentional and tell a story, also how some people might find it worth it, while others don't. But there's a whole other dimension which is different people finding different things frustrating to begin with. My friend hates both last of us games coz he can't stand the looting/crafting system, meanwhile to me that's a key ingredient to what I love about the gameplay and telling a story/raising stakes/establishing the world thru it. In the end of the day, everybody has different values and priorities, and no game is made for everyone. I'd rather have AAA studios make bold choices that might not resonate with everyone, than play it save and make an inoffensive, bland experience that settles at the smallest common denominator. I love tlou2 and can't stand rdr2. I prefer that over feeling so so about both :)

I absolutely love listening to people talk about the relationship between games and the people who play them. I'm always looking forward to your uploads because of this. Thanks for the content!

as an avid celeste player one of the reasons it’s my favorite game of all time is beating those frustrating sections and the relief that comes afterwards is addicting

I feel it's important to acknowledge the difference between narrative frustration and mechanical frustration (which may be for a narrative reason). Last of Us part 2 was narrative frustration, Dark Souls is mechanical frustration.

I really really like your videos and your outlook and its always refreshing to hear your very sane thoughts. One thing I feel I should mention is that I haven't played many of the latest AAA games that you often feature and I feel like spoilers are dropped on me when I'm not expecting it. A little spoiler warning in the beginning or in the description (along with which games are spoiled) would go a long way for folks like me who have yet to plow through their backlog! Again, I am consistently amazed by your thoughtfulness and feel that you tackle very interesting topics with regards to the act of gaming so please don't take this as some kind of criticism!

An indie game that I think uses mechanical frustration amazingly is Rain World. Through not giving players a clear goal from the beginning and making the act of exploration fun yet difficult, it allows players to just experiment with the janky movement and combat systems. The goal is to make an experience wherein players slowly transition from reactionary prey to goal-oriented predator, which I think is best accomplished by giving the primary systems a high skill floor, and an even higher skill ceiling. If you consider yourself a particularly patient person, I think Rain World is definitely worth playing.

The good kind of frustration is something like you dying in a side mission or a rougelike and saying “Oh, shit.” Then still going back and trying again with what you learned. The bad kind of frustration is dying seven times the same way or doing the same thing twenty times and just putting the game down.

I love this video so much. The writing's great!

One of the most stressful and emotional experiences I've ever had was Suicide Mission in Mass Effect 2. I had a great time playing this Masterpiece from start to finish. But then when one of my favorite characters die I had to start over and rethink the choices I made. Luckily, I save everyone except Miranda. I almost regret it but I'm glad mordin is alive.

Frustration in mechanics is something I can't tolerate, but I'm open to being provoked by a narrative direction I may disagree with. I played GTA 4 in 2020, and although I recall my difficulty with shooting and driving as negative elements, the dissonance in tone with other Grand Theft Auto games was staggering, and Niko is an easily favored protagonist in that series for me. That's why I want to replay The Last of Us Part 2: to form my own sentiments based on the experience I had, instead of being influenced by others. This is the third video that's been recommended to me, but the first I've commented on that I didn't abandon or delete (yet). I found what you said about TLOU2 compelling. In fact, I'm currently writing an essay comparing the reception the game received, and your mention of it stirred feelings I didn't know I had. Thanks.

I think one of the problems with frustration in games is that when intentionally(?) implemented most of the time is unavoidable, that's why having customizable difficulty (like Pathologic 2 if I'm not mistaken) and assist modes is probably the best way to handle it The other problem is that "breaking" the game experience as designed is VERY unsettling for a lot of people, so even when the tools are there to begin with people won't use them anyway, and some of them would even try to shame anyone who uses them

When a game is overly frustrating and not fun because of it, I just turn it off and never play again.

In classic Raz fassion: - raises a question - in depth discussion - resolves in "I don't know"

You put it really well that it is entirely on what works for the individual, and whether the personal satisfaction outweighs the frustration. Personally I find the satisfaction of beating any given boss in most Souls games to be so fleeting that the frustration often isnt worth it personally.

As someone who loves challenging platformers, I absolutely agree with frustration building an emotional connection. There's a sense of deep satisfaction from seeing all of your hard work pay off that isn't possible without the entire emotional roller coaster that comes before it. Love is built on a foundation of complex emotions and deep understanding, so games that embrace inspiring both negative and positive emotions in players, while they won't work for everyone, at least have the potential to be truly meaningful to some.

Great video ive been thinking about this kind of subject and i agree it hits every point very solidly

I never understood people calling RDR2 frustrating. People always *greatly* exaggerate it’s sim/realism aspects too. In reality it’s more action oriented, less tedious and easier to play than the first game 🤷🏾‍♂️

One thing I love about playing games is a feeling of satisfaction of clearing something hard- and when I get too frustrated at something, that feeling of satisfaction goes away. I don't know what it is, it should be the other way around, but after something that truly frustrated me, my reaction to clearing it is more like 'thank god that's over' and not 'yes, I finally did it'.

I don’t mind frustration in games as long as it is executed well and there is a good reason for it.

To say that people enjoy RDR2 because it is frustrating is like saying that people enjoy hiking because it is boring.

Awesome videos man, I'm going to start a game design/development channel (in Brazilian Portuguese, cause I'm from Brazil) and I'm definitely using your channel as a reference. Congratulations for the great work and keep going.

My favourite thing about TLOU2, is actually one of the things i most hear about the game when people are talking negative things about it, the pacing and length of the game. For me it actually made me appreciate the lives of the two main characters more, how awful and painful they were and how if they could have an easy fix for their sanity, they would take it in a heartbeat, i kinda was in the same mindset as them, i mean the game literally made me lose sleep and it gave me a huge headache but i only came to realization of it all when Ellie was crying on the beach looking at the fog, when it suddenly hit me, that i felt like the characters, that i had this huge weight on me and i was finally ready to be free of it, like Abby already had realized that and now Ellie was also ready and that is when it became my favourite game ever because it was willing to torture me and put me on the same level as the characters.

Thanks for putting my love for TLOU2 into words.

Such an interesting point of view,never thought about chapter 5 in RDR 2 like that until now. And i do agree with you,after I finished with that chapter,I did start to explore more and more. Really good video 🙌🏻

Great video! I love your content!

I feel this way about Skyward Sword. Even though the motion controls and other aspects can be frustrating, I found it all the more rewarding when I finished the game because of that struggle

"something's badly written if it fails at what it's trying to do, not if it doesn't do what you wanted it to"

This was fantastic! I know I’m watching 7 months later but that’s beside the path. Great video!

After that guarma section Artur gets many stranger interactions that are deeply impactful, and really make that ending more powerful if you kind of roleplay alittle as Arthur, coming to terms with your impending death and genuinely trying to change. Idk, first time through up until this point I'd pretty much killed and looted with zero remorse, but Arthur's final moments were written so fucking well, and he's so likeable that I felt like it was only right to let him go out honorably, and it actually affected how I approached the rest of the game. Point being this guy's right, definitely really take your time with it

I think I had/still have more complex emotions playing The Last of Us Part II for the first time than for anything else in my life.

Hi Raz! Frustration is absolutely worth it when it is purposely designed to make the player feel that particular emotion, not because of the gameplay or a particular mechanic, but because the story chose to make you feel that way, especially with the Last of Us 2. As you said, it is why I can't stop thinking about it a full year later. Love it or hate it, for anyone who has played TLOU2 to completion, they absolutely will not forget it. Frustration as a difficulty is also worth it. Maybe not as players grow older and have to work long hours and come home to what is meant to be a brief escape, but definitely for people who enjoy a challenge. And when a challenge strikes the balance between difficult and rewarding, you inevitably end up with masterpieces such as Cuphead, Celeste, and the Souls games. Where I draw the line with frustration, is tedium. Games as a medium are supposed to be fun - and fun can be pure enjoyment (Mario Odyssey), wonder and amazement (Breath of the Wild), and unpredictability and emotional connection (as you mention with specific characters in games like The Last of Us 2, and The Last Guardian). Tedium in games like Death Stranding serve no purpose. You're not having fun, you're not accomplishing much by means of challenge, and you're definitely not on an emotional rollercoaster. So you're left with? Frustration. Huge fan of your videos Raz, you're part of the reason I started a KZfaq channel myself, so thank you for the content you upload.

In my opinion, Snowrunner is a game that uses frustration as a "feature" quite well. Completing a delivery after battling through mud, water and snow is very satisfying

this is a really good video. tlou2 frustrated me immensely, and everyone ive seen talk about it who it did work for online has been calling people who have issues with it 'haters' and shit like that. so seeing someone genuinely understand where both sides are coming from is refreshing. it also made me understand a bit more the abby section of the game, hearing it from someone who really did enjoy it in the end. great video and great analysis!

Holy shit, a wild “type 2 fun” sighting. That’s a deposit in the emotional bank right there.

This is all so spot on. The way you described your journey through Last of Us 2 brought me back to my own journey. That game means so much to me. Playing it was infuriating and frustrating and sad and painful, but it also moved me in ways I didn’t expect. I’ll never forget it. And I get why it makes people so mad, too. I’m rambling. Great vid tho. x

This is such an interesting concept. I loved TLOU Part II and RDR2 much like you did, but I found the last guardian absolutely insufferable. I guess this strategy is never a given success, even for someone who like the style. Great analysis

Extraordinarily well put. I'd add to the discussion that for me frustration often comes with "bad" checkpoints. i.e. "having to redo 10minutes of gameplay". That's why I can't into Dark Souls : it's the worst checkpoint system to me. Not only do I have a long walk back, but I also lose everything I got. It's peak frustration and makes me turn the game off.

I'm not down at all with a game that is mechanically frustrating to me (although some day I'll give Outer Wilds another try LOL) or that frustrate me due to wasting my time (I haven't played RDR2 yet, but I'm pretty sure a lot of it will fall into this category for me), but I don't really mind narrative frustration as long as I feel that it makes sense with the game as a whole. I thought that TLOU2 was extremely fun to play from a purely mechanical standpoint and, narratively, the only part I thought was extremely frustrating was her leaving Dina to go after Abby. And of course, that was the developer's intent.

i am trying to avoid games that has frustration in it for las 2 year and i am very happy with my decision. i am playing games to relax and move away from my alredy frustrating life. i dont need more.

I have nothing original to say other than I had never thought of frustration as an intentional game aspect, I love raz!

@Razbuten: hey I love your videos, and I watch them because they make me think a LOT about game development, perhaps more than any other channel. I'm a game dev, I'm working on my own indie game, I think about it all the time, I work on it all the time. It isn't ready to be released as a testing Beta yet, but when it is I hope that you might consider playing it or critting it. Some of the ideas for the game mechanics were things that I first thought of while watching your videos. So, you are actually having an impact on the industry :)