I worked at James Street last year before I moved to Headbolt Lane station in Kirkby, all of the wall tiling on James Street platform 2 is the original tiling from when the station opened in 1886.

Yes it should be included, the Birkenhead (Hamilton Square station), was one of the first underground stations - originally connecting under the River Mersey to Liverpool (James Street and Liverpool Central), the system was extended to include Liverpool Moorfields and Lime Street, when the 'Loop' was introduced about eighty years after it opened), well before Newcastles Metro........ and the 'half size' Glasgow circular system.

Merseyrail is a mini London Underground, with similar origins. Merseyrail has the _Mersey Railway_ as its initial core, as London Underground has the Metropolitan Railway as its initial core. The Mersey Railway dates from 1886 making it the *second underground railway in the world.* James St and Hamilton Square stations are the world's first deep level stations, so deep only elevators can reach them - all London's _underground_ stations at the time were just below the surface being cut and cover. The Mersey Railway in 1886 was from James St to Green Lane in Birkenhead. All stations were below ground level with two deep level and two below surface with one in a cutting and one semi underground. Green Lane is partially underground. A few years later a tunnel was bored from James St to underground Liverpool Central. Later, a tunnel was branched off the tunnel in Birkenhead and bored through to Birkenhead Park. There is 6.5 miles of underground tunnel, with the 2.2 mile Waterloo tunnel, half mile Dingle tunnel and and the 1.25 mile Wapping tunnel still awaiting trains. That would make near 10.5 miles of underground urban rail tunnel. Liverpool Baltic station, a partially underground station, is to be reused with work starting in a few years time. Looks like Central is to be extended with more platforms and an underground travelator to Lime St mainline station. The Liverpool city region, and just beyond, has more people using urban rail in the UK after London. And it has had serious proposals to to be expanded to Warrington Central, Helsby (or Warrington Bank Quay), Preston and Wrexham (or maybe Heswall or Neston) using the new battery trains. No expensive electrification needed using existing track. The 1830 Wapping Tunnel from Central to Edge Hill is still laying there awaiting trains being dropped from the Merseyrail plan in the late 70s/early 80s, after work started, leaving a large underground burrowing junction south of Central with short header tunnels awaiting extension and use. Same with the overground trackbed eastern section of the Outer Loop where a six-platform station was to be built at Broad Green. The Wapping tunnel could take all local trains into the underground section leaving Lime St mainline for long haul only. The system has frequent services in the central core where the lines converge. BTW, the Liverpool Overhead Railway (1893-1956), an elevated railway like those in NYC and Chicago, had its southern terminus in an underground station at Dingle fed by a half mile tunnel. So Liverpool had *two* unconnected urban railways with underground sections and stations. The Dingle underground station is still intact with its tunnel, being totally capable of being reused on Merseyrail with little outlay using the new Class 777 hybrid battery trains.

Another point about the Mersey Railway (Merseyrail) is that the River Mersey is 90 foot deep at low tide between the narrows. The river has 30 foot tides. This means the under river tunnel has the steepest inclines of any heavy rail track in the UK.

hello father… Great video by the way. I love how I appear in the video than you do 😊 I find it incredibly inspiring how you always try your best with every video. Keep up the good work :) I loved checking out the MerseyRail however, as a devoted London Underground super fan, I have to give the top spot to the London Underground. To all the Liverpudlians (and any more who live on the Wirral) you should be incredibly proud of this amazing network. Well done daddy ❤ - Violet (your amazing daughter who appeared many times in this video) x

James Street was when the line opened the original Terminal Station till the line was extended to Central when the CLC station was opened. The original underground platforms at Central are the ones used by The Northern Line. Platform 2 at James Street Station was the original platform for Central. It is now normally only used for stock transfer purposes though I believe it can be used to turn back trains if the loop line is closed. Both Northern line platforms at Central are bi directional if my memory serves me correctly and can be used to turn back trains to Southport, Ormskirk, Kirkby and Hunts Cross.

I think Port Sunlight was a model village set up by Lever Brothers to accommodate factory workers - similar to Bournville, like you mentioned.

Looks like the Drayton Park to Moorgate Northern City line & the escalators & underground platforms are similar to the Baker Street to Charing Cross Jubilee line. Both built / modernised in the '70's.

Since no one else has said it, I always thought the main reason this was not counted as an ‘underground’ is because it uses standard surface rail type heavy units rather than light rail units.

It's like the Metropolitan Line and the other sub-surface metro lines in London. They have exactly the same platform types and they surface regularly, spending most time above ground. In the UK, due to our history, we didn't need to build underground where not necessary (and why would you if you don't have to?). They do have full-length versions at peak times. If Liverpool had more population then of course the trains would all run at full-length all the time just like the metro in London. I really don't think they need the times anymore. It is a segregated network now and they could quite easily just state the number of minutes until the next train like the District Line. That has separate branches too and has Victorian stations where they used to be steam; no different to your open air stations in this. Above or below ground is irrelevant. Is it a metro? yes in my view. Smaller cities will not have the frequencies across the entire lines like London, New York, Seoul, Tokyo etc. This is only when populations get above a certain size. Liverpool has a perfect system for its size. It will get better and expand further in future. It is the second largest metro after London with full-length trains available (unlike Glasgow and Newcastle). It has urban rail too. The segregation of this line with its own trains makes it identical to the Four Lines on the Underground in London with the same history - starting out as standard rail stock and converting to its own branded trains over time and segregating itself.

At 8:17 when you mention northern line, you need to go up the main escalator, go to the top and then walk forwards to see the sign for northern line and go down the escalator

I consider Merseyrail to be more like Thameslink or Crossrail than the tube, it's a bunch of commuter lines with tunnels through the city centre. Stations like Liverpool Central and James Street feel a lot like Moorgate, Old Street and Essex Road on the Northern City Line. I wish other cities had something like Merseyrail, I love the new trains.

I’ve always considered Liverpool’s Mersey metro system as the 4th underground metro system, never knew it wasn’t. It’s similar to the London tube network, the central area is underground but the suburban areas are above ground. The Metropolitan line is timetabled like a suburban rail, and even runs fast and semi fast service patterns, but it’s still part of the tube

Thank you for the video (I'm from across the pond). Yes, this absolutely looks like and acts like a tube or an underground. Full commuter seating. Lifts or elevators, maps and paths, concourses, and platforms. BTW... re sniffles. Whenever I get a tickle in throat I tilt head back and gently "gargle" a dropperful liquid oregano (orally). Gargle liquid oregano for a few minutes or as long as you can (stings) and spit out (or swallow is ok too). Liquid oregano stings a bit but in an hour the sniffle will be almost gone, the next morning you will be good. Orally applied liquid oregano gets rid of all sniffles. Sometimes they have liquid oregano in capsules you swallow, but are less effective. Oral Liquid Oregano runs around $35/bottle and lasts a year. I rarely need it any more since my body is now "cured" and resists all the molds. (prior I had sinus problems for 30 years…all gone now ! liquid oregano changed my life.)

Thanks for the video. I didn't realise there was a system like this in Liverpool.

Hi, I enjoyed this video, some thoughts from me as a regular Merseyrail user: When the railway tunnel under the Mersey was originally built, going in the Liverpool direction the trains would first stop at James Street, and then stop at Liverpool Central. Platform 2 at James Street is the original platform for those trains, and is no longer regularly used, although it can be seen from the Wirral-bound platform. The platforms for the Northern Line at Liverpool Central are the original platforms for that railway, and the tunnel connecting them is now the Stock Interchange Line to move rolling stock between the Wirral Line and Northern Line. All of the other underground track and stations were built in the 1970s. To switch from the Wirral Line to Northern Line at Liverpool Central, one must take both flights of escalators up and walk straight across the concourse. The Northern Line under the city centre is only a few feet below ground level, whereas the Wirral Line under the city centre is at a very deep level. The Northern Line platforms are adjacent to the concourse anyway so it wouldn’t make sense to have a separate platform-to-platform passageway and escalators connecting them. There are some diagrams online showing the whole system, if one searches “Merseyrail loop diagram” the website LocalWiki shows a diagram of the current system, and an accompanying diagram of the pre-1970s layout. The terminus stations of Exchange and Central were closed when the Northern Line was connected under Liverpool, Exchange still stands but Central was demolished. Exchange was replaced by Moorfields, and Central is self-explanatory. I would consider Merseyrail to be a normal surface Railway, which happens to go below ground in the city centre and Birkenhead for convenience, similar to the Elizabeth Line in London. The underground section of Merseyrail is certainly up there with the likes of Glasgow and London.

Was this ever in doubt? (Except scousers would say it was 1st, not 4th.)

Platform 2 at James Street hasn’t been used since the 1970s - it’s used for transferring empty stock trains between the Wirral and Northern lines, the only link between them is here.

I think it lacks the frequency to be a true metro. Also, if I'm not mistaken, it shares tracks with other services, which makes it difficult to get proper metro frequency.

One word. No! It's more like Thameslink than an underground railway.

They don’t have northbound southbound signs at central because some trains terminate there so you’d a see a train going north from a platform it would be going south from if it went through.

There’s not really a need for a Wirral Line to Northern Line interchange other than via the main concourse or lift at Liverpool Central. The reason being is that if you are arriving from the Wirral line, then you are more likely to have changed at Moorfields to catch an onward Northern Line service or you want Liverpool Central as your final destination. There is however, a direct escalator from the Northern Line platform down to the Wirral line at Liverpool Central 😁 And platform 2 at James Street is on the stock interchange line between the Northern and Wirral lines, and is only used when services are terminating at James Street when there is engineering works.

The Tyne and Wear Metro and Merseyrail are both going to look similar soon too with the new Stadler Class 777's on Merseyrail and the Stadler Class 555's on the T&W Metro looking very similar. I'll miss the old Metro-Cammell Metro cars!

As someone from Sunderland I am legally obliged to point out it's the Tyne and Wear Metro, not the Newcastle Metro. Though nearly all the underground bit is in Newcastle, to be fair.

James Street Platform 2 is now used as the stock transfer line as further up the tunnel the Wiirral line and Northern lines are joined to transfer rolling stock between the 2 lines.

There is a better connection at Liverpool Central between the lines than using the tiny lift. You use the escalators to the surface, then its a short walk and a short escalator down to the sub surface Northern line platforms. There are two other stations that are almost underground Green Lane is in a cutting and Conway Park was meant to be underground but they dug down and opened the tunnel out. Both are in Birkenhead. One further complication on Merseyside is that suburban lines out of Lime Street are not part of the Merseyrail franchise but are branded "Merseyrail City Line" and coloured red on the map. The trains are run by Northern!

You can't claim that Merseyrail is not a Metro because it has published timetables, while the London Underground on its oldest line (albeit an extension from the very original) ie. the Metropolitan does just that. Indeed, if the city centre stretch were somewhat longer in relation to the rest, the 'main line' of Merseyrail Northern Line is very comparable to the Metropolitan line. The interchange from Wirral to Northern at Liverpool Central is admittedly confusing, but the only people who would normally use it would be those travelling from Lime Street. And they would only do that if it was pouring with rain (admittedly quite a lot recently) because it's usually quicker to walk. Northern to Wirral, conversely, is straightforward: just one escalator. Most people changing from the Wirral line would do so at Moorfields, which is very easy and well signposted.

Interesting video Jonny. The Mersey Railway is credited as being the first underground railway in the world with lift access to its stations. (I.e. the Metropolitan Line in London was at shallow depth with access by stairs and the Mersey Railway predates the deep level tube railways). I don't think there is any doubt that the central 6.5 miles of Mereeyrail is an underground system. Whether it is a metro is debatable - although the new trains have the word metro on them. A metro is often defined as a frequent passenger service on dedicated tracks serving an urban area. Merseyrail ticks most of those boxes but the four trains per hour service is on the limit of metro frequency and some stops are distinctly rural (although the same could be said of London Underground). The system is best described using the German term S-Bahn (stadtscnellbahn). Trains run in tunnel through the central area and terminate in the suburbs (although some services do terminate at Liverpool Central). By the way, you took the wrong exit at Central. There is one marked 'Northern Line' which takes you up to station entrance level and then down again via a number of escalators. Going the other way is easier using just one escalator down from the Northern Line platform to the Wirral Line.

This was such an interesting video because it does ask that question as to what is a metro and I love these types of questions. To add to what I wrote earlier about a popular definition of a metro - for the vast majority they should have 15min or better frequencies, stops at all stations (express lines do that also), be segregated from other rail (e.g. freight), traffic and people, and be electric, there is also the terminology. When talking about such networks, I use the term metro as there is no implied requirement for where the rails need to be. Subway, Underground or Tube suggests it has to be underground. But elevated metro systems exist to. The key is to be segregated. Also, the discussion whether there are three or four metro systems in the UK to me is questionable, not due to Liverpool, but that I would argue they are ignoring three others... that also just happen to be in London (yes, London does get a lot!) The Overground, the DLR and the Elizebeth Line (Crossrail) all, as far as I can tell, meet the above metro criteria for the vast majority of their lines. In fact, I can't think of any parts that significantly don't. Which means technically London has four metro networks alone. I will give Glasgow's subway the nod also, but it is pushing it with the early closure on Sundays. A metro system that has no trains during daylight hours is a little cheeky. Newcastle I believe also meets the criteria to classify it as a metro, which sort of annoys me when it's described first as light rail, despite metro being in the name. The size or weight of cars shouldn't be a criteria as the length is simply as long as they need to be for the size or density of the city. So, in order of passenger numbers, these are the networks that qualify as metro in my mind in the UK. London Underground: 1.026 billion London Crossrail: 204.29 million London Overground: 189 million London DLR: 92.3 million Newcastle: Tyne Wear Metro: 29.3 million Glasgow: Subway: 8 million Manchester's Metrolink on the other hand is not a metro because despite passing three of the four above, it fails on segregation. When I travel on the fully segregated sections (Bury to city, Altrincham or Didsbury to city etc) it acts and feels like a metro, but as soon as it hits the city centre, it completely falls flat and is stuck behind traffic, drunks rolling about or police on horseback. RMTransit, a fantastic channel for... well... transit, defines Metrolink like an inverted Stadtbahn, the German "pre-metro" system where often services act a bit more like lightrail/trams in the suburbs, but go segregated (underground) in the city centre. Metrolink can be segregated in the suburbs (though not all) and then mix with traffic in the city centre. But back to Liverpool which meets three out of four and only headways fail. This though is significant. I have used it quite a bit and always marvel at how in the city centre it feels very much like the Underground. It meets all four criteria if you stay in those underground sections, but as soon as you head out into the suburbs that falls flat. I've waited 30 minutes for a train which is not a turn up and go system. In a metro system, you should never need a timetable. Some may argue that even 15 minute headways are barely good enough for this, so the worst case scenario, but anything longer and you need to consult a timetable. Whilst this is bad enough for single journeys, as soon as you need to change trains, that gets worse. e.g. if you need to get somewhere and wait 20-30 minutes for your train, then 30 minutes waiting for the next connection, you're definitely not on a metro system.

One Point is that the Liverpool City Region own its own trains.

Hello! Great video! What music did you use at the start and throughout the video because I've been trying to find that music for ages

It should count as the 3rd surely? With Tyne & Wear Metro as 4th. (London as 1st and Glasgow 2nd). The Metropolitan Line has timetable services on the Amersham Branch with only a train every 30 minutes or every 15 minutes at peak times. The reason it is an "underground" rather than a "train" is entirely down to a political decision about which budget it should be funded from and that can be changed, like for example the Northern City Line was changed from underground to train, and the Waterloo & City Line was changed from train to underground.

The London underground does have timetables, bu they are so frequent that the timetable becomes irrelevant and thus is not easily findable (or adhered to)

I’d say it’s closer to an S-Bahn more than anything else (similar to the Berlin or Munich S-Bahn networks) Maybe if Liverpool kept its Overhead Railway, then that would be a metro, as well as if it built more lines, but Merseyrail, in my mind at least, is firmly an S-Bahn

Whilst there’s no official definition of what constitutes a metro, a popular one is a system that is primarily segregated, electric, stops at every stop (though can also have express services) and minimum frequencies of every 15 minutes off peak (and that’s worst case, usually they are better) - basically a turn up and go system. Liverpool qualifies in the first three but fails in the final. Whilst it can be pretty good in the city center with bundled lines. You don’t have to go far before you find weekday services as bad as every 20 min and weekend every 30. If they improved frequently I would call it a metro. But at those frequencies it just doesn’t qualify. If you need to use a timetable, it’s not a metro. Lovely system though and they just need to improve frequencies

Tokyo Metro lines have scheduled services. 😗

Merseyrail has always been counted as one of the 4 underground systems in the uk

I'd call it more a commuter rail network with some underground stations, than an underground railway. You probably wouldn't use Merseyrail to travel around central Liverpool, so the only underground journey you'd probably make is between central Liverpool and Hamilton Square.

How often do trains arrive?

Interesting, In many ways you were making journeys in the centre that no-one would bother to make. James Street is veyr near Moorfields, and Central very near Lime Street, so in most cases if starting at the centre you would make for the station on the line you wanted to use. Merseyside has really only a handful of truly underground stations. If that counts, so do the Clyderail and Argyle lines in the Glasgow system, which are both in tunnel through the cenreal area (though not very deep).

I'd say the closest comparison is probably Thameslink. Is that considered an underground railway to you?

Hey ltns!! Looks boss!

The london underground runs to a timetable, its just not shown

I'd class it as one it's exactly like the Tyne and Wear Metro mix between national rail and light rail the part about the Netros having no timetable they sure a sh*t do up here only there delayed by about 20 to 40 minutes allot of the time especially when one of the Metros go bang and they have to restart it all it's terrible at time but this is the thing it shouldn't have to be Underground to class as a Metro/Underground because not even the whole London Underground is Underground! I'd say it should be classed as the 4th!

Us scousers are a very laid back, take it easy bunch. Standing 2 abreast on the escaltor isnt uncommon and people will usually stand behing you rather than say excuse me to get past. I dont understand the hustle & bustle of any London unground stations.

If Newcastle's is then Liverpool's should be sorely.

And you miss one underground station, Conway Park :)

Nah, they use actual main line trains

Well cleaner hen the London underground.

these are no different than the London Overground, which i doubt people would call a metro as it’s more commuter but also acts like a metro in frequency and style of carriage if this was a US system, it would be called an interurban: a hybrid of metro and railway