Definitely agree with you! Even when companies sponsor a showcase I make it a point to put it through the ringer and find what’s wrong with it so people know what they’re getting. As a result I get less prototypes to review but at least I can provide a valuable perspective

Doing everyone a solid. Everyone kept praising this board. If you pay a few extra dollars you can get a nice full sound from the modifiers as well.

@@AndyVNguyen i completley agree with your statement about reviews. on one hand you can be grateful to get prototypes and/or sponsored units to review on the other hand you know as content creator (i hate the word influencer...) that if you do point out flaws of products you might just never get anything again which hurts content creators in the long run. i think alot of people think being a content creator is not a business but it is, and if there is alot of money in it for people they tend to not review everything objectivly because you know you dont want to bite the hand which feeds you. its hard nowadays to look for "truthful" reviews because you never know in the end til you get it yourself which is kinda ridiculous if you spend sometimes 500+ bucks for a product which needs sometimes ages to be in your hands. anyway im grateful you do the reviews you do even if it means you might not get to review certain products because youre not the "all is awesome" type. also i just noticed the spacebar sounds kinda wierd on the enovy ? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jt6JmtKmutivdqs.html like right there maybe its just me but idk man thats why i like your videos and black simons videos - minimal bullshit

I'm with you on that, they are just hype beasts. Give people a honest review ffs

That's why influencers are useless , they offer nothing valuable for the customer everything is hype for them because hype is how they make money. They are just a PR branch for companies. If all a content creators does is trying to finesse a product , especially those from known brands then you know which side they stand and it ain't customer side !

Thank you!

i was so surprised that no one mentioned it. every review is like THIS IS THE BEST KEYBOARD EVARR

@@AndyVNguyen i mean it explains a lot if you look at who are spreading good words of it. literally every "big" keyboard streamers out there, mf even forbes made an article about how "good" it is, tell me the marketing team of mode isnt behind this

@@shynnsup8383 i don't know waht to tell you, the mods on the envoy sounded bad. There's not more he can do other than buy 10 envoys and review his aggregate experience, but that's unreasonable.

@@shynnsup8383 I would usually chalk it down to a "revenge" review if it's nearly 90% negativity (peek the now deleted Keychron V1 review from Consumer Tech Review). Just because a bad point is mentioned about a board and 5 other good point is brought up, doesnt mean the reviewer is a hater. Sure, you can say that he was scorned by mode and delivered a scathing review, and I'll absolutely trust this review more than reviewers that received it for free and preach that it's the next best board to buy in the guise of "all opinions are my own". At least andy has mentioned both pros and cons about the board, and he wasn't the only person to point this inconsistency in sound though - brandon taylor did point it out too but again people dismissed it. I'm all for more reviews that talks about the good, the bad, and the ugly. No board is 100% perfect to the point it'll only receive praises without criticisms. I can tell you all the flaws about highly regarded boards too like the tomo, sonnet and the F2 that I have on hand currently. they are not perfect and have some mild annoyances too.

@@scruffy1471 And if he actually did buy 10 envoys and found that some have no resonance in the same exact config, that wouldn't look good for mode's qc, wouldn't it? Haha

I’m definitely a sound guy! I’m crazy enough to desolder an entire build of something doesn’t sound just right. I know not everyone is like me of course. Mode has ghosted my DMs for a while but well see! Haha

@@AndyVNguyen How do you think an O-ring mount board in a PC case (like the parallel beam 65) would compare sound wise?

Alex isn't just a fan of Mode, he's literally sponsored by them lol

ONLY 455 (was for three though)

Thanks for the feedback! It varies from plate to plate it sounds like. A fixed copper plate and alpacas didn’t have as much of an issue either. So it makes me think it is is the plate hole that’s causing it

Glad you found something that worked for you!

For sure I think the sound is the biggest culprit for those holes. Thanks for sharing your experience!

ginkgo is def the superior one..

ginkgo went under the radar for sure. kinda lived in vega's shadow but didn't have any glaring issues

@@x3LightNinG yeah i definitely love it so much. I always find myself coming back it to it over and over.

@@AndyVNguyen fun fact. Your video was actually the one that helped me make my decision on purchasing it. So thanks for that 🙏🏻

Thanks for sharing!

How do u get one sent out to you? Neither of us have a lot of subs so ig its not based off that

Some people’s mic setups pick up sound differently . I use a condenser mic that hears everything as it is and i turn off all processing. All I can tell you is my ears also hear the sound issues

Was this also the same on the aluminum case version of the Envoy?@@AndyVNguyen

Alex also had a pre-production version of the board didn't he? All I know is that I have an Envoy sitting in front of me and Andy's assessment is 100% correct.

Mode instock can’t be beat here. I literally can’t think of an alternative. KFA tried to instock products and they … can’t lol.

@@AndyVNguyen cheers for the reply pal. I think it's both great that you highlight some of the things that aren't perfect and great they've managed to bring us this product. Always a fan of your content.

Of course’

I'm scared for the alu.. because PC never pings. And if you think about it.. this is CF. which is non metallic. And the mounting, non metallic. And the case, non metallic. So how did we arrive at ping? also fuji says hi

oh i didn't know it was the customer's fault for buying the PC keyboard Mode sold

@@AndyVNguyen i think it comes down to judging the board with its weakest variant or something like that :/ still, not everyone has a mv7 to gaslight themselves into thinking mode's "lesser neo65" is a decent board for no-foam (im trying to print gasket that could secure the plate without using retaining screws, along with adhesive pe sheets just so it can compete with neo lol)

Thanks for sharing. Chat definitely brought that up and I loosened it all of the way. And then took it out.. and then the sound was still there. And I realized it wasn't the screw. lol

@@AndyVNguyen I’m curious if other oring materials other than the orings provided would help?

It feels like plate and pcb design. but I’m not sure

Yeah my right tab key and right shift still sound bunk. The rest of the board sounds pretty damn good. I am a little surprised that Mode went forward with this design, it just seems below their capabilities.

@@burgosmatthew honestly i’ve embraced that sound as i like natural, not dampened, metal keebs and plates. Also like alexotos said, you can hear the case but more of a resonance instead of the classic annoying ping. It just gives me the feeling of typing on this hunk of metal and for some weird reason i like it

fuji says hi back! Yeah it was so odd to just hear so much good coverage, I thought this was gonna be a home run. It's still pretty good, just not what I expected. I agree with the tipping. It's crazy that people will be dismissive if there's any criticism. When we stop criticizing these products the designers will stop innovating. There's always room for improvement and people should always be asking questions IMO The polyhaku is so niceeeeeeeeee. The RGB fish is the bees knees!

envoy, other than the sound of those few keys, sounds better than zoom65v2 imo. but zoom65v2 will be more consistent

@@AndyVNguyen Thanks for the reply but I ended up ordering a neo65 for first build. I'm in on the rainy75 preorder and looking to get the f1-8x v2 as well now though. Thanks for your honest reviews and opinions!

Lmao yeah I ain’t getting anything anymore. The price at launch was pretty solid. Right now, it still wins for instock. The cheaper boards are still group buys iirc.

here here.. yeet it

you're lucky! enjoy the board

Yeah the envoy isn’t perfect. It’s good enough for the price and availability but people seem to not want to accept that. They want unikorns and kohakus to be viewed as bad keyboards

yes, being buyable is nice.. but doesn't change what it is. it's a decent sounding keyboard with inconsistent sound in some places but it is not a drop in gummy o ring mount keyboard. the sound and feel are different there are a lot of good gasket mount and drop in o ring boards that are purchasable secondhand (which is what most of the hobby is) for dirt cheap today. all the qk/owlab/cycle stuff can be purchased new

Im new to the hobby and dont know the difference between drop in o rings and gasket mounts 😅 i dont even know what any of this means. Just build my very first board and i really love it tho i forgot to buy stabilizers but it is already sounding and feeling better then anything ive ever had

what specifically are you looking for in a keyboard that you're waiting for?

I haven’t gotten hands on neo65. But cycle7 for something quieter and more refined and has arrows, Bakeneko for the best sound (just lay down paper towel in case to adjust for hollowness) and best mouse space for gaming.

mounting style history sounds like a GREAT idea!! thank you MrSkullhead

Carbon fiber all the way. It’ll sound fire

THANK YOU! I disagree with one take and point out one issue on a board and people are acting as if I waged war on Taeha and Mode. I just wanted to bring to light that the board is good enough, but not as good as it was being marketed. I'm a sound guy and it missed a sound mark.

@@AndyVNguyen Sound depends on a lot of factors so prescriptive statements don't make a ton of sense. People also talk about sound differently. I don't think any of this makes the board better or worse as it is extremely subjective and depends on a lot of factors including your build and cofig. Even Alexotos addressed these claims and I quote: "I have 3 personal envoys and have built a bunch at this point including the proto and none have that issue". He also said: "I can't perceive any critical sound difference. I mentioned in a few of my streams that over tightening the screws on the envoy, mainly the all alu one, may result in some metallic sound. So just dont over tighten it!" He also provided sound tests with these messages. No offense but I rather take his word for it (and the majority of other creators and reviewers) than yours. I think the board is pretty darn good and it might be the best 65% of the year.

Fr hes so washed now he needs it

MX blacks on alu, sp star fr4, inks on CF were my favorite combos!

Most of the review on the sound and value I s positive, sounds like you came into this video with bias. It’s just not a unikorn at all, which was a big claim that was made

@@AndyVNguyen made by one guy, this hobby is supposed to be about our own taste anyways, aren’t we all supposed to come to our own conclusions on how you like the board. This whole review just seemed like drama bait to your KZfaqrs, you are a reviewer to, we come to this video for your reviews (which I still was able to get so thanks) but you’re also a big name in the hobby, people will still take your word for things without having to mention other names, whether or not u intended it. That’s how it came out

Taeha is a bit more than one guy imo. His statement shapes a lot of people’s opinions. I normally wouldn’t have to clip the whole thing but when I first streamed this and mentioned his claim he said I was putting words in his mouth. So I just wanted to make it clear by showing his words. But the video wasn’t 100% about the person who made the statement, it was my POV as someone who owns a Korn and has envoy on hand. It’s a good enough board and I still don’t see an instock alternative. Just wanted to provide my POV to say it isn’t the only keyboard, especially if you specifically want a unikorn. It was quick.. but if you want a unikorn, it’s cheapest and easier to get a Bakeneko. It’s definitely framed to bring people in with thumbnail and title and intro.. but I review this the same. Without people claiming it was the best thing ever or 90% of the unikorn, I would not have had to go into this detail. I also don’t often review production units. When I review production, I’m way harder on it. Like the glorious GMMK pro I did a few years back. This keyboard is going to be on sale for instock so I want people to see a more honest review. At the end of the day my opinion is my opinion

1000 times yes

Wow so the foam doesn’t even resolve the sound inconsistencies in those areas? I didn’t have time to test it but I was leaning on Taeha’s suggestions to use a little foam. That’s disappointing. I know some people legit don’t even use right shift so it may not bother them but that is still a shame

I haven't given up yet. The latest configuration is case foam, alu plate, solid block mounts, no other foam. This is the best configuration I have tried so far. The inconsistencies seem to be masked somewhat with a harder mount. Also, I screwed the plate to the case more tightly. So in my experience the less bounce, the better the sound - but it's all subjective of course. All the same, even with a harder mounting style, it does feel quite soft when typing, which is pretty cool. My recommendation so far - the best sound for me comes with a harder / tighter mount, case foam, and no plate / PE foam. I'll keep playing with it because I am a tinkerer. I might even post a video of the different configs. @@AndyVNguyen

Haha just try to enjoy what you have. I'm kinda just here to ruin peoples day LOL jk. I just have to point out these things because people trust me to be objective.

based@@AndyVNguyen

I feel exactly the same way. Well said!

yeah the unikorn is NOT flexible! i was told this so much and i've tried a million builds and they all hold pretty sturdy no matter what. it's not bad at all, it's just not "flexible" like these flex plate and flex cut pcb boards. half plate alu plate is goat in korn

for whatever it’s worth, I don’t have a Unikorn, but in my bakeneko I’ve used a half plate with a SNOP 60 PCB (1.6mm) which has flex cuts above and below the alphas, and it definitely has more give. I think you definitely lose some volume vs. a non-flex cut PCB (I also have an H60 PCB for comparison, which is 1.6mm with no flex cuts), but if you wanted more give (particularly with a stiffer material half plate), that may be something worth exploring. Just be sure to be mindful of compatibility with the Unikorn daughterboard/jst placement before pulling the trigger on an aftermarket pcb.

Yeah the flex cuts will do that. But up until the most recent run, the Korns came stock with non flex cut pcbs.

@@AndyVNguyen I’d definitely say that’s the right call for most people, especially since the majority of the hobby probably doesn’t want to solder, and in my experience/opinion, there’s very minimal if any typing feel benefit from flex cut PCBs paired with a full plate (as you’d expect for hotswap).

thanks for sharing. that sucks.. i didn't even think to squeeze all the lattices to see how it felt. it wins in aesthetic and instock but the rest is just ok

Yeah all I heard was super hype for the board and no issues. I don't know what the proto had, but the production run has no standoffs to have a proper "retention screw" design. It's proper but that big gaping hole was def an issue

You should take a look at the build guide and make sure that you have properly aligned the board onto the lattices. I don't have sound issues with the Q key but definitely do with the TAB and Right Shift Key and Enter Key just the same as Andy.

​@@burgosmatthew sound is different even when the board is not in the case. the Q key has a higher pitch than the rest.

@@burgosmatthew There are two giant holes on the plate and the PCB for the screw used to secure the PCB. It's the design flaw. Even when I took the screw out, the sound is not improved at all.

thank you for the support!

maybe tomo?

Thanks for the reply I'll check it out.

QK and cycle

I should pay for shipping to get more production run boards. After the elementg67 fiasco (the GB runner changed design after he hit his MOQ) I'm super sus of what happens behind the scenes

Many Vietnamese streamers said neo65 is better. No hollow, resonance and better anode compared to this

@@Babigoldfish got my Neo recently in red and the anodization is very impressive. I built with the gaskets and it's nice and soft, sounds amazing as well.

​@@Babigoldfish and know they know that when swap to plate like carbon fiber, the corner pings af

oof spacebar hurts

Looks to be his Kohaku

Like Ray said, it's my Kohaku

tofu65 is more consistent but quieter. mode envoy has some inconsistent sound but has poppier alphas

You will not get “next level” 2x the typing experience by spending more imo. The typing experience is tofu 65 2.0 is very nice. The sound is OK. I’d probably lean towards sixty five in general if I had the budget but you could be just as happy with the tofu 65 2.0. I enjoyed my tofu60 2.0 when I used it.

themanicgeek just replied to a comment below saying his alu envoy is pinging worse lol but yeah alu with all the options is gonna look great

@@AndyVNguyen hmm my envoy has no observable ping, even in recordings but mine has a copper weight, could be why

I find that long pole switches alleviate case hollowness and we used long pole switches here. That's good news that case foam helped!

I'm personally waiting for the 65/TKL Cycles If you need instock, you have to grab something from extras during the time frame it's available. As for any time instock, you gotta go with Mode.

Check this sound test of the Cycle7 twitter.com/andyv_nguyen/status/1691829835105173778

New toys are always fun. Sometimes I buy things on Amazon just to get that feeling, knowing full well I’m likely not gonna keep everything lol

@@AndyVNguyen yup its always a fun feeling lol. I appreciate your honesty in this review, hopefully things still turn out well when I build.

what config do you have?

@@AndyVNguyen green ano with CF. wood accent, silver bottom.

Green and wood, NUT Get it? Cuz it’s like a tree

lmao i wish i could help but i barely have any silent switches!

Honestly you know the market is crazy when you even have someone like Redragon coming out with pretty decent 75% polycarbonate keyboards like the elf pro with foam dampening, and gasket mounting, for around a hundred something bucks. The market for mechanicals has gotten so good now that you can actually afford to be choosier depending on what you want out of a keyboard and what you can afford to buy. You can buy one of those boards at any micro center or order it online whenever you want now! It’s kind of nuts how much the keyboard scene has progressed from when I started back in the mid 2010’s.

the comparison should not have been made and i personally dont like the board for the price range since new, better things have come out

I mean a majority of it was a review and praising it for what it is. But with the NEO65 around the corner it's hard to justify the Envoy.

@@kaeroseonThe Envoy is a higher quality of board than the Neo65. Keep in mind the Neo 65 might be your preferece for cost/quality ratio but the Envoy is a higher quality.

@@kingmidas430true, in terms of manufacturing no doubt the envoy is better. But the neo has a similar mounting system with oring mount as a bonus and doesn’t use screws leading to a more even sound. It also has wireless if you need it. And for a similar price there is also the tofu 2.0 which I think is also slightly better than the envoy, there’s the zoom65v2 and cycle7 which aren’t as minimal but also higher value for money.

Neo65 has better anode, doesn’t have hollow mods and resonance. The Neo hasn’t been out yet when you made this comparison. Why you have the need to defend the envoy that much?

mode envoy is going back to the owner who's immediately selling it lmao. i haven't had anyone reach out about the neo65 so probably not

@@AndyVNguyen aw, I can't believe it man, u are one of the most like entertaining keeb enthusiasts for me. People should sent more review boards for u to check out and have fun.

Thanks for the kind words man. I’ll see if I can reach out about neo65

cnc pc at this price point is unheard of imo. the china gb's don't do cnc pc often. so if price is your main constraint, this is the best option

Thanks, yeah pc boards are expensive af

Urban outfitters relaxed fit. I think it looks like a garbage bag but my wife said that’s the proper fit so yolo

haha i'll try to bring her into future videos!

I did this as early as I could! The sound is good if you never hit mods lol. It’s just not as perfect as people said it was. It’s just good

@@AndyVNguyen exactly! I couldn't agree more 👌

the copper plate works better. the cf plate of theirs just sounds straight up broken here also taeha used foam. most streamers used foam. foam covers up ping

the neo is kinda blowing everything out of the water. but especially now with the timing of instock mode envoys it's gonna be hard. but mode has better marketing IMO and yeah most of Taeha's viewers will have never have typed on a Korn.. so they'd never know

There had to be something, it was a little sus that everyone was raving that it was basically perfect. I was mostly looking for aesthetic issues with cnc pc at this price point but they nailed that

qk80?

okie, i have been looking have not bee able to find something more then that either lol@@AndyVNguyen

I’m fairly new as well. I have a dolphins75, qk100, and nuphy halo. This is one of my best aesthetic boards, green envoy, wood accent, grey keycaps, it definitely looks great. My space bar sounds below average though. I built the envoy with only PE foam and fr4 plate

i personally recommend ppl straight ip jump to end games or whatever you think its cool if you think you’re staying in the hobby for awhile. its a waste of money to me if you get 10 cheap boards before reaching the premium ones, just dive right into it and settle with it

Honestly it is all about whether or not you want to spend some bucks on them or not. Premiums board are better finished or better in term of sound but of course they are not 2x or 3x better than a board half its price. What I think you should do is that to just do some researches and gives premium boards a try, I know some people who keep settling for budget or entry boards that grows bored of the hobby until they started trying out the higher end boards.

Are you using the foams?

@@AndyVNguyen only PE

yeah PE shouldn't make it stiff, odd

alu would honestly sound worse. pc usually covers up sound issues like this

the pc kohaku actually sounds pretty sick, you can check it out

fuji says hiii! but hey the envoy looks pretty right?

@@AndyVNguyen Yes it looks really good. I got the alu olive coloured version with the walnut accent and shiny polished steel weight. The ano is immaculate. Passed on the PC though cos no funds, hahahaha. The PC looks pretty with the RGB though.

oofff walnut accent. PC is super nice and it's a decent way to get cnc pc rgb 65%.

@@AndyVNguyenmaybe i will pick it up another time just for the RGB and nice alphas. I think the spacebar is pretty decent too!

I don’t have a pc rgb board right now and the rgb in this looks so nice

i feel that

i'm glad there's someone else out there that can back me up! i can accept it being a decent board for the price and availability. but saying it is 90% the same as one of the most hyped keyboards in the game? that's using a completely differeent mounting style, diff layout, diff weight design? huh the BAKENEKO is the budget korn! like.. it has the same DNA. we gonna keep cookin up some good videos, thank you for the support

@@AndyVNguyen bakeneko if perfectly fair ya, the envoy isnt a bad keyboard at all and the price point is fine, just the fact that it got hyped up way too much by some content creators who talk about all its good as opposed to the bads to where, if you got the board in hand, itd feel very underwhelming... like bro compared it to an "endgame level (in most eyes)" 60 ;-;

@@AndyVNguyen meanwhile im so tired of people out there stating unikorn = end game. like ok its good, but are we really at the point that we have to chase and rank every board out there as if only unikorns are the worth getting and anything else are worthless. just how i feel. i personally buy boards base off the aesthetics and materials first, everyone has their priorities

The unikorn shouldn’t be propped up that high considering it has so many alternatives like Bakeneko and ciel and al6 and a ton of other lesser known o ring 60s. Like even the Typ60 is close enough but people are selling it right now. It’s def a very simple design and just hyped.

FUJI SAYS HI BACK Ink on alu half with locked 7u bottom atm. I stan inks

@@AndyVNguyen nice but what is a locked 7u!? Lol

a plate that doesn't have 6.25u spacebar compatibility. only 7u. so there's more aluminum. it's a custom plate i ordered

it's a solid budget low end board with nice finishes. but the budget level went CRAZY in the last 6 months so envoy seems a little outdated already damn their mods are bullies? how so?

@@AndyVNguyen asked a legit question about the timing of their drops. members flamed me and mods jumped in instead of giving legitimate answers. made me lose interest in their products.

Def didn’t realize that but yes, too lose and it’d definitely jingle around

They worked w me before! But all good they have grown to not need me anymore

they haven't really been talking to me after i reviewed link65 and said it wasn't worth it lol

@@AndyVNguyenooooo I see,, love the vids btw!! U a real one

Thanks for the support!

It still looks good and if you can get it well under retail it still is an good enough sounding keyboard that looks great. People were saying they could get Iron160s for like almost half price lmao and that's a great price to get it.

@@AndyVNguyen Im seeing around $450USD with the SS accent. Do you consider it as a endgame kb in 2023, thanks for the reply.

@@alexfung7417 If I remember correctly he said its tough to get the Iron165 to sound good with linears which is why he isnt a big fan of it. Maybe with some modern long poles it could sound good? Idk.

Sound is not my consideration, Im just not so sure if its still an endgame in 2023, and is the price worth it in 2023.@@kaeroseon @AndyVNguyen

​@@alexfung7417I really don't know as I'm also one of the few people that wanted it as an endgame. But if you really enjoy the design and don't care about sound I say go for it as it's your board, your money.

The sound issues are unique to the design here. As a $200 keyboard, it’s fine. I just wanted to point out that it is not to the caliber that some people are expecting. Like saying it’s 90% of a unikorn is misleading. Mode has value and availability on lock and I said that in the video. The current coverage of the board seems to gloss over these issues. And there are plenty of comments from aluminum case owners that have the same sound issue. Let me know how yours turns out when it comes in - I’m curious if it’s a proto vs production run concern

Pc is deeper sounding and less chance of hollow or ping sounds

I have a 223 aluminum Tiger 80 and a 120 dollar PC Tiger Lite. The lite sounds miles better and the Alum Tiger 80 is a PING machine.

@@robothtml cheap plastic sounds MILES better than cheap alu