EDITORS NOTE: I realized after filming there's BOTH a way to use this as a USB DAC/AMP from a desktop computer & move tidal's library to an SD Card. Maybe this little thing needs a follow up 🤔

I couldn't agree more with the "distractions" aspect of using anything other than a DAP. No internet on that thing is a blessing and it helps put my ADHD in check. I was just on a long train ride and brought my Fiio X3/E12 Mont Blanc rig with my Focal Elegia's and I wouldn't have done it any other way.

I think another feature that a DAP like this has over (especially) a newer phone is the expandable storage. Most newer phones don't offer this anymore so in theory, you could have a bag full of micro-SD cards with multiple terabytes of music on them. This becomes a great option when you're on a plane, camping, or just away from wifi/cellular coverage.

I recently got in to DAP, and to be honest, since im a 90s kid who used to have Walkman and Discman (if you kids know...), sometime im my life I moved to mp3 player then Smartphone dongle DAC in 2010s afterwards... What I notice after 12 years of using Smartphone, and getting in to an age where "im getting old for these new music", I find that I less and less listen to new music hence the need for streaming service to me less useful as I only ended up mostly sticking to the old songs I knew, and when I dig a new song I usually buy for offline... so I now ended up using a DAP because of that starts to happen to me, I don't know if the next generation of mid 30 years olds will do the same as what I just did, but im sure there's some will do it especially to what happened to me.

Do people not carry their music collection anymore? I personally think that's the biggest pro of carrying a DAP. You have everything you own in the best quality possible at your fingertips.

I have a M11 plus and it is my primary device for audio. I currently do not have a place to put a desktop setup. My M11 plus is stand alone, affordable, practical, and portable way to get started in audiophile headphones.

Fair points. I think there's a few extra considerations at play: Bit perfect play back - Android phones connected to a dongle will be converted to the Android default bitrate, unless the program has exclusive control (Tidal) or you use USB Player Pro (USBPP). Unfortunately this means you need to use Tidal (I... errrr... umm....) or not have the ability to store music with USBPP. I'm hoping DAPs side steps this issue for bit perfect playback and stored music from a range of streaming services. Sensitive IEMs - Dongles such as Dragonflies are just too powerful for sensitive IEMs (not the case for all of them I'm happy to say). DAPs should be able to cater for low ohm units. Connection cable cutouts - I've been running a dragonfly from a phone for about a year and have been plagued by cutout issues because of connector cables. Throw a dongle/phone combo in your pocket and anything more than a slow, steady, tai chi style walk is bound to result in a connection cutout. With a DAP I can just plug in my IEMs and BOOM, solid connection, even with funkiest of strides. So even in 2020, I'm saving my pennies for a A&K DAP : )

I used portable DAC/amps for a several years before upgrading to the DAPs I’ve used for the past couple, the M11Pro and now M11Plus. There are a couple points worth considering when looking at these devices that are often missed in reviews because they don’t consider what I think is actually the most common use case, the full time portable/commuting audiophile, and miss the lurking issues you only run into when you use a portable dac/amp daily for years. In my experience, if you’re strapping or velcro-ing a USB connected chunky device to the back of your phone to use all day, your commute on the train, lunch break walk, between lectures on campus, all the times you usually want to interact with your phone quickly and easily, it absolutely sucks to have anything bulky connected to your phone and you quickly come to hate the device, even a dongle dac. This coming from someone who stomached it for the sound for years. The reason everyone loves BT devices is it frees the phone on the go from even a wire. The killer feature in both of these device categories is BT tethering, so on the go you can stream, but have your phone free as it would be with AirPods, but have your favorite headphone singing away plugged into a great source thrown in your bag or back pocket. BT as your main on the go connection point also solves what is the most frustrating part of the portable DAC/amp experience, connectivity issues. In my experience if you’re using one of these products for a year or two you’ll be plagued by the occasional update that makes the device not connect reliably, tiny pocket wire that gives out, port that fails because you’re using the device everyday, all on top the android lossless output issues and apple harassing you about Apple Music when you just want to play downloaded music. As a music all the time person these pain points drove me insane and the Apple Music pop up crashing the app on my aging phone was at the time the final straw. Music was going on it’s own device and I’ve never looked back. Today with most of the nicer portable dac/amps devices having BT, I think if I were on a tighter budget like I was in college those would be my pick for portable hifi bliss. If you’re budget is higher I think DAPs fill the portable role as well or better and offer all this additional utility. The ability to carry your whole library of files, mine is massive and filled with stuff not available on streaming platforms, out and about or between setups in your home. They offer all the benefits of a separate experience DMS mentions in the video, but do fill a common practical application better than dac amps can at admittedly a higher price. For people who want to spend say 1000 on their audio experience, but do the vast majority of their day to day listening on the go, then the value prop of a nice DAP that fills many roles with lots of added functionality makes sense. Worth noting if your an IEM enthusiast DAPs also often represent the best sources for very sensitive IEMs.

Enjoyed the video. I got a DAC to listen to music in better quality. One disadvantage you mentioned about carrying a DAC vs not using one was having to charge another device. I do not see how this is a problem. It takes a second to plug in the charger. Don't understand why that is a disadvantage. Thanks again for the video.

I'm very happy with my LG V30. It's the best of both worlds. Too bad LG isn't making phones anymore, so I'm keeping mine forever.

Regarding Tidal "offline" and removable storage: I have the iFi M11 Plus with a 512GB microSD card. Tidal happily saves it's offline audio files to that drive. It's a straight forward configuration. In addition to your rationale, this issue of storage was one of the reasons I went for a DAP. My Tidal library is large. And most smartphones don't have storage expansion. I would say this though: Tidal is finicky (read: buggy) when it comes to offline music management. But that's a whole other kettle of fish. But one thing is for sure: Alt-J rocks! :)

DAPs are about the only thing I still get excited about.

It wasn't to the quality of really high end audio players, but LG actually included a good DAC that you could toggle on and off in their flagship line. The LG v20 was actually the last flagship with a removable battery too. (I need to finally upgrade, but its the phone I've been using all these years, and multiple batteries later.) I really wish they didn't leave the market.

The only thing that wins, for me, when I'm using a DAP, is physical buttons for easy pocket navigation. I don't want to have to always pull my phone out of my pocket just to skip to the next track.

There is significant advantage from having less components all crammed in a small space, specially when you're dealing with electronic signals and noise. Moreso with mobile devices that have multiple transceivers (RF, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.). In fact, component placement is a big deal even with larger audio systems.

I'm one of them niche market audience where I still use my offline music library, so for the sole fact that I can add a SD card to get 1TB of storage for a DAP vs a phone being limited in storage and can't even fit half my library makes it my only reasonable option to carry my music on the go Sony's new phone (which has expandable SD storage) would have been absolutely perfect for me if it had a 4.4mm jack; oh well, maybe next iteration

I have a shanling m0 + 256gb micro sd card. Holds my music and I'm happy with it, saves my phones battery life especially when I'm traveling. I do miss some of the streaming options I use on the phone, and have been looking up android DAPs and second hand LG phones to use as a DAP.

I rip my vinyl 24/96 and store it on a Hiby RS2. Makes for an amazing source. The line out being pure R2R DAC, sounds fantastic

If you’re in the Apple ecosystem like I am I thought of the benefit of using a DAP. Apple can be a bit limiting when it comes to Audio quality and storage so getting one of those would be a nice alternative portable audio device.

4:50 a very Italian segment. really enjoy listening to your reasoning! I personally went through this conundrum myself and ended up buying an LG V20 for less than 100 buckeroos and slapped a 512 GBs card in it which I use as a dap. I'm happy

I have both the Pioneer XDP-300r and the Shanling M6 (21) very useful and convenient DAPs that deliver superb audio quality with expandable storage for those with a large library. the M6 (21) comes with a 3.5mm single ended ports and both a 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced ports. Also the M6 (21) was modified to bypass Android's default bitrate regardless of what app you use for music and can also be used as a USB DAC/AMP.

If you're someone who likes to have a massive offline media library I can see these things still having a benefit. Although, if you're like me and only buy phones that allow expandable storage, It's a lot harder to see the benefits of a DAP. The point at the end about the hifi enthusiast phone idea is something I've been waiting on forever in an age where headphone jacks are disappearing. One device to rule them all.

One should not come up with excuses for the limitations of a product at 6:59. Having a web browser doesn't take away from it being a DAP. In fact having a web browser in a DAP is a must since as you mentioned it is useful in logging into public wifi networks. Plus one can buy and download songs from various music stores online.

BTW, MusicTeck has Hiby R5 mk2 on sales for $399 now. If my DX160 was no longer running strong, I would definitely jump on the deal. However, for people who would like to have the best SQ, what I heard that you'd better to turn the class A on even for IEM, for which case the battery life is no longer that long.

I appreciate how thoroughly you thought these issues through, and then how clearly you expressed your thoughts. Well done!

my only complaint against DAPs is the limited firmware updates from companies.

I just bought a DAP. Got it yesterday. I like the size (about 1/3 of my smartphone). It powers up very fast. The only thing is downloading is a bit of a hassle. I have to go to the website of the podcast I want to listen to, as I can't figure out how to download off Spotify or Amazon.

I'm sure I'm the 30th person to mention the lgv60. But try it!

A DAP as music device OTG is the only thing for me. I will avoid using my mobile for music; I prefer to seperate my music listening OTG from my mobile.

I use a Sony WM1A to drive my MDR-Z1R headphones. I also use it to drive my Aeon Closed X on occasion (those usually reside in my work office). From the DAP I run both over 4.4mm balanced connection. My music collection is entirely offline, sourced from FLAC CD rips and purchased downloads in CD or better resolution. I don't stream. I have never missed an amplifier (I run the Z1R at about 33% of the DAP's output, and the Aeon at about 50%). I love having my music on a distraction-free device that lasts for 30 hours on a charge, and takes a 1tb micro-SD card. I think ultimately the DAP question hinges on a few things: 1. Do you have a large offline music collection? (In this case it's a no-brainer). 2. Do you want to be untethered to a desktop or laptop? 3. Do you want to listen to music without distraction from apps? If the answer to one or more of these questions is yes, a good DAP will probably bring you lots of convenience and enjoyment.

Having had several DAPs I no longer use them really unless I'm going to test headphones at stores or other special situations. The DX80 and later connected to a Mojo was my main source for years. The storage is great and all streaming services are lacking plenty of artista/albums, the battery power is great, but dongles are damn nice nowadays and cheap. Carrying a power bank might make more sense for me at least.

got the first gen ess Hiby R5 for like $180 when it was on sale and had a coupon while I don't like it as much as say a XD05 (swapped op amp and the BT module) it is a very convenient AIO unit even if it has its own quirks

Love my OG Fiio m11 for my denon 7200 and sundara :) Much better sound than my phone.

I use my Phone paired with a FiiO BTR5 DAC and that has served me well so far, i know im limited on space with my internal storage but in reality do i really need thousand upon thousands of songs on my phone, i think its a healthy balance of moving my music i dont listen too out and migrating new music in, my whole entire music library doesnt have to be at my fingertips and i think its very relieving to only be limited to the music ive chosen as apposed to thinking "omg what if i dont have my entire music library with me"

The main reason not to buy a DAP is that you will get obsessed with DAPs and end up with 4 of them - each with different sound, strengths, weaknesses. But, yes, phones sound bad and who wants to drain their battery all day..and why carry an amp/dac dongle when you can carry a dap, does the job better and you're carrying an extra thing anyway.

My LG G8 is sick, and even when I get a new phone I'll keep it as a DAP.

I love using a Dap, the sound quality is superb compared to a mobile plus it avoids losing battery life on a mobile. The only downside nowadays is they all run android. It's not needed and only deflects from the whole reason for having a dap. Ps, what would you suggest to replace my Sony nwa105 but as a purely dap, no android. Cheers

I'm looking at DAPs because I'm going a trip and I want to keep my phone battery as free as possible for camera, messaging & internet. Also for walks & exercise when I want to go no-phone.

I miss my lg v series, which was a killer little phone dap combo…. Imigine if it had taken off and sold well for its dap …. If it had balanced and some more qol stuff it would have been perfect :)

I use the Hiby R5 Gen 2 because it can play nearly any music file and doesn't have to convert into Flac which most Android HP can play. When I use it in the car I turn on a Blue tooth as many new cars' audio systems don't provide a cable connection that would sound better. However one can hear the difference between an HP and a DAP player. It is obvious the DAP player is better as well for the Headphone. I don't see any interest by the HP makers to increase audio quality.

I agree,all phone company should put 4.4 out on the phones with balance connections of course,and built in very good dac/amp ☝️☝️☝️

For the wifi problem, you can probably sideload a web browser or spoof another device's mac address to your dap's then log into the wifi.

LG used to be the choice for an audiophile phone. RIP the LG phone division

Absolutely want a new Dedicated music player! Do not use online music stream service. I still have 1,000’s of CDS and would prefer to listen to my purchased music and also not worry about internet connectivity or anything else I’d definitely prefer not having compression like on my iPods but don’t know about anything that would be a proper competitive options with large space to save all of my music library

Excellent review 👍 Thank you

I was asking myself this question yesterday. Missed this in my Sub box :D

What's the music used in the video?

So is the sound quality just as good from a great usb portable dac as the best dap money can buy? Assuming there is sufficient amplification to go with both.

7:15 closest thing we got in the US were LG phones

I Dap,I Phone and I stream AND all at the low end of scale so i appreciate and prefer THE DAP and with an SDHC and my own tracks,the big thing for me is software file management i’m playlist driven and construction always seems to be shonky

It was a very honest and sensible take on DAP, if you have lot of hi-res audio which you want to take along and dont want any distraction then DAP make sense, but if you only listen to streaming services like Tidal, Qobuz or Spotify then it is a waste of money to buy DAP they generally run an older weaker CPU often Android version is few generation older and they slow down over the time and most of the vendor dont keep firmware support beyond second year. Now Bluetooth and USB dongles have improved in SQ a lot and can match the DAP so it make sense to use these for streaming services.

Have a fiio m11 and still use it everyday although I still listen to tidal on my phone at work,it doesn’t sound as good without using a external amp of course

I have a shanling m8 and absolutely love it

I’ve just seen DMS outside in a video.. this troubles me

Thanks!

I’d like to know how these daps compare to iPod classics? I have a few iPods and they sound nice 🤷‍♂️

I was looking at more budget options like the Pecsu players or the Mechen H11. I was looking at the Pecsu players in particular. What do you think of these players? Do you think they provide more bang for their buck than others?

I got the fiio m3pro because my Frankenstein sleeper computer had a horrible sound card. It used it as a dac/amp and it worked great

Hello, im new to DAP....and would like to get a DAP .. not cheap not too expensive, but won't like to compromise on sound aspects. Can you please advise which one/ name and model to get in May 2023 memorial day! A bit of future proofing would be nice!

Perhaps an even more compelling alternative to DAPs, even more than using your phone, would be your *old* phone which still has a 3.5mm audio jack? It has most of the advantages of the experience of using a DAP, namely saving your phone's battery, having tons of storage, not getting interrupting phone calls and texts (and I guess you could theoretically turn all notifications off), and not needing a dongle. Obviously you wouldn't have the extra driving capability or output port options like a balanced output, but then you don't have the issues of trying to interact with a device which doesn't have a normal phone OS.

Thank you. So well said, every word and point made here. The R6 updated (not tube one) is powerful and well made inside and out, but no browser. It’s limited android use. They do this to all their machine WHILE IBASSO does so much better, but iBasso hardware is cheap. Their quality control is bad. hiBy

Can it play 24bit/192 KHz stuff? As far as I know Android does down sample everything to 24bit/48 KHz.

Thought about it some while ago, not at all necessary.... A phone with a good portable solution will take care of my needs on the go. This is the way.

Can you imagine if Hiby made an android phone? Android security patch level: 20/01/2009. You are running the latest firmware.

Could you comment if you think Apple might do a high end DAC? Still using the last (discontinued) IPod touch.

I’ve tried a fiio and an activo and I just can’t seem to keep my library nearly as organized as when I put my music on my iphone, wonder what I’m doing wrong???

Computer (confine yourself to a desktop to listen...Why? ) / EQ program / phone / dac / amp / dongle / pay your data bill ahead or.........hit the DAP ON button anywhere, enjoy. As much as I hate phones the thought of an SOTA DAP with voice and SMS as secondary functions is appealing.

I listen to Flac files on my B&W PX8 headphones over bluetooth, I decided to buy an Astell and Kern Kann Alpha DAP and was shocked that trying all the codecs and equaliser settings it didn't sound a patch on my Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra over bluetooth. I've returned it but I've been left wondering why my experience was so bad when the reviews of the A&K Kann Alpha are so good.

How is user experience on the R5 v2? I have the original R5 and especially after booting up it is sloooooowwwwww. If I leave it alone after booting up for a minute or two seems to be a bit snappier, but for the price of the device I was hoping for a smoother experience especially since it doesn't have the same bloat that an Android phone would (especially if you lease your phone from a carrier). Even after the system seems to be loaded up, every once in a while I get audio skips like the OS was struggling to load the music in time. I love it when it works, but the original R5 definitely needed some polishing before release if you ask me. Hopefully R5 v2 is better.

there's any freaking DAP without streaming? I hate streaming and Android

This has me thinking. I use Apple Music/ITunes, with either an IPhone and IPod Touch. Neither has the storage that I need. I thought about an IPhone 13, with 1TB storage but $1,500. I will do a deep dive into research but would love some tips, advice and recommendations for a DAP. Thank you.

Daps in general still have their own place. For example when I want to use some dongle dac to the full potential I also cant forget on some good designed USB cable to cut out noise from usb (I know is much less than on the PC but is still there), and there are no short Hifi usb cables yet. With a DAP u dont need too deal with this problem. My LG g7 thinQ with a build in DAC/amp is the best from both worlds.

So...do you need a dap instead of usb/dac amp on phone? Does the sound becomes better if i use dap with dac/amp? Is it greatly noticable?

I've been in this hobby for over 20 years and believe me when I say, I've had many DAPs. One day you will wake up and realize it's not worth it. DAC/Amps are much better and cost effective.

RE: the wifi sign in issue, this happens on my Hiby RS6 as well. Customer service has no solution to speak of at the moment.

There isn't a phone out there android or iPhone that can compete with the sound quakity I get from my DAP and a set of IEM

A DAP is so much better and useful than what is said in this video.

I've relied on a DAP for my main music listening for many years now - technically going back to the Zen Creative whatever before buying a Fiio X5. Currently happy on an iBasso DX220 Amp8 and not looking to upgrade for the foreseeable future. I use it mostly with UM Mest and sometimes with HifiMan Ananda which it powers without issue. Many comments in here have already highlighted the main advantages to a DAP - no battery drain on phone, desktop amp quality sound, can be used as DAC with a computer. I think it really comes down to streamer vs hoarder - I'm a non-streaming hoarder and love having all my collection with me at all times. Up to 40 minutes to and from work and this has me transported musically without denting my phone life. Walking the dog. Washing up the dishes! I use it every day and still get a thrill from the quality. It might be a generational thing - those of us who started hoarding files don't want the bitrate compromise brought by streaming. Those who started streaming don't want to lose the convenience. I actually CAN stream on my DAP - most mid to high end DAPs will do it. But it's not my preferred option so I don't.

I've recently rediscovered my o2 amp running off battery power. Decent DAC via USB C, o2 into that, and I can walk around the house with my LCD2Cs like an idiot. Or just chill on the recliner with an album. I think modern phones have squeezed these DAC/AMP devices mostly out of the market.

for me, instead of having a dap i simply made my secondary phone (cheaper, smaller) into a dap (plugged with a dongle dac/amp).. it's simple, still have the 100% smartphone capability but also sounds goood. wanna loose the distraction? just install less app and you're good to go..

I dont want to pressure my phone. Thats why a dap is necessary.But I do think modern DAPs should be smaller so that we carry it in my pocket.happy with my M0 pro.

i have a Pioneer DAP. I liked it but I was soon pissed off as Pioneer wouldn't support android updates. It works well but I find the interface clunky to use while driving. I was was thinking about buying a different dap but my current car will become my son's soon and he wants to put in a android head unit. I'm looking at focus st's that have the sony head unit setup so I can still slap in cd's

except until recently, the pixel 6 couldn't do exclusive mode, and even then had problems working with dacamps at all. speaking from experience as I also have a pixel 6, so made my dacamp useless

7:26 I live in Asia but I have never heard of a all in one device with 4.4, what devices were you talking about??

I have a simple rule of thumb for myself in matters like this: 1. You only use a DAP if you're gonna listen to it straight up without a amp/dac..or if you're gonna connect it to a good amp (not dac/amp) 2. If youre want to make use of the SQ of a good amp/dac (dongle or Portable), you only need a competant old or cheap cell phone for it with decent processor speed (because they all use Android anyways). 3. If your use a DAP while having it digitally connected to a dac/amp via USB or optical, there is no need for the DAP technically, because you cancel the benefits of it due to your digital connection (because the sound flavors only emanate from the dac/amp itself and NOT your DAP as some believe) . Unless you're just a fanboy or girl of the UI or featurs set of said DAP, it's redundant. It took me a long time to realize that though I love daps, in some applications, it makes no sense...and in other cases, it can. For me, I use a mix of set ups based on this rule of thumb

Will never not have a dap. Ive gone Cowon for the past 15 or so years and used my local library. It is essential for travel and great on the desk on work. I even sent one out to be modded and battery replaced to a bigger one.

What if I just want something to stream things on ? Anime, Movies, KZfaq and Twitch ?

Hey DMS what mod is that on your Diana TC on the bottom of your ear pads (ported) and why?

This was a good video

Or just use Bluetooth headphones. I find that when traveling, I am unable to do any critical listening which negates the need for a DAP or external amplifier.

Since DAP is very expensive, a good phone with Bluetooth DAC with battery may be alternative solution.

Adrianne Lenker!!! Yay

Still use my WM1A 🎧 ❤

dont have a phone, but a few daps, including my preferred a & k 25, dont like to be bothered by people....

I use my DX312 for OTG and Desktop listening so 🤷‍♂

Have you heard of the Moondrop Dawn ?

LOL My DAP's don't even connect to the internet, always go with a dedicated player not a jack of all trades...

I have 6 daps. I don't ACTUALLY NEED ANY OF THEM) nor does anyone else. No-one needs to listen to music on the go!. Sometimes it's nice to listen to whatever is going on around us🙂 ( bit sad and deep😂). I don't really know why I love mine so much. They all sound a bit different. They all look and feel different. They are just nice things in their own right. I do feel a bit guilty though for wasting money. But hey. I would have surely wasted it on something else🙄

i did not expect to see potsdam when I clicked on this video, small world I guess.

Cool video