Shut up about the Gripen

Рет қаралды 2,308

Squishface (Drinks Beer And Plays WarThunder)

4 ай бұрын

This is not a War Thunder video. This is a video about information surround the Gripen fighter in real life.

Пікірлер: 61

@r1pper_r00 4 ай бұрын

While it is often overrated, in my experience the Gripen is also one of the most senslessly hated planes online; it seems 99% of people can't talk about it without falling into one of these categories: A) those who think it's better in every way than the F-22/35/Typhoon (basically Rafale fanboys with a different plane waifu) B) those who think it's crap because "mUh t/w RaTiO" and because people have this idea that a delta winged aircraft will always bleed all its speed in one turn like a MiG-21, regardless of things such as close-coupled canards, relaxed stability or the airfoil employed. Seriously, one could make a 30 min "Shut up about the Gripen" video both ways. It kinda reminds me of the katana, where you have people with zero knowledge of swordfighting and bladesmithing who think it's the best sword ever and that european swords suck vs other equally ignorant people who think the exactly opposite way.

@Scorchluck 2 ай бұрын

A little offtopic: I'm an F-35 hater, while being fairly neutral on the Gripen. But I don't hate the F-35 because it's a bad airplane, I hate the F-35 because it's a tool of economic control over the armed forces of importing countries. It's not the F-104/F-4E export program where the locals could make modifications to the planes themselves, it's not even the F-16/F-18 export program where the locals could dictate modifications to the manufacturer. The F-35 is a very complex airplane, packed with secret technology, which is also sold in one package with a special maintenance system. It is the iPhone of the combat aviation world. The F-35 is a tool that allows the Pentagon (and really Lockheed Martin in the first place) to stick its hand up the ass of another country's military so deep that they can sign another Lightning II export contract with that hand.

@Chounubis 20 күн бұрын

Seems to check out for a nation primarily behind the "you will own nothing and be happy" Klaus Schwab stuff and gender bending cultural marxism. "bUh MuRiCa Is a FrEe CoUnTrY."

@ItzCPU_ 4 ай бұрын

Someone give this guy a medal

@specialagentdustyponcho1065 4 ай бұрын

An F-35 can't dogfight in the way that an M777 can't fit a bayonet.

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

Take an angle grinder to the tow hook on the cannon and you can have the world's largest bayonet.

@gnaruto7769 4 ай бұрын

Except both can. F-35 can dogfight very well despite being intended for long range combat. M777 technically doesn't even need a bayonet because it has the tow hook Infront of the barrel

@Hairysteed 4 ай бұрын

Luckily, the Gripen _does_ fit a bayonet: 😜 (subtitles available) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h5x5ZriGvbm7coE.html

@kunaukedi4850 4 ай бұрын

@@gnaruto7769Yeah no. There is no fighter that NATO enemies/non allies are flying that the f35 can beat without abusing hmd and it's aim 9x. Otherwise it'll get dogged by anything dubbed a 4th or 5th gen fighter. The f-35 though amazing and all if we were to make a comparison it's nothing but a high tech 5th gen harrier

@thegenericguy8309 4 ай бұрын

I’ve always thought of the Gripen’s relation to competitors in the same lens as Mirage F1 and MiG-23’s relationship to the American competition of their time - the question that the flogger answered regarding the F-4 is the same question that the Gripen answers regarding the F-15. In both cases, they were never gonna be better than the most recent up-and-coming generational leap, but they offered a very genuine capability of being much more economical than their older equivalents while offering similar capabilities and arguably even having some genuine advantages. To say the Gripen is “bad” would be like saying that Mirage F.1 and MiG-23 were bad because they were worse than F-15, but to the same degree, saying the Gripen is better than any 5th gen would be like genuinely believing that the MiG-23 is a better aircraft than the F-15

@CorporalApollo 4 ай бұрын

Nice video, the Archibald dude is unhinged lol. I think SAAB focused way too much on tailoring the Gripen specifically for Swedens needs, and that's a major reason it didn't do too well in export.

@Ghent_Halcyon 4 ай бұрын

Agreed, if they were trying to export something, they should have built something else..

@rommelproductions3990 4 ай бұрын

Literally, I am shocked by how small your channel is. Keep up the good work. No doubt you'll grow.

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

It'll grow. Slowly like a tumor. And I'm sure at some point the dam will break.

@Hurts1983 4 ай бұрын

thank you for this

@TheDAWinz 4 ай бұрын

Is this truly Beer Thunder without it in the title? 🤔 Also really loved this video, I've been saying much the same for years lol Gripen isn't a bad plane but it's got a TON of misinformation and agenda pushing around it.

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

It's not truly beer thunder if the titling of the video follows any kind of coherent structure from week to week.

@marty4286 4 ай бұрын

Unsourced unverified rando Gripen anecdote time (I'm contributing to the same thing you're cautioning about): Saab and the Gripen are the reason the Philippine Air Force haven't hade a "real" fighter since it retired its F-5As (yes, that's right, As) in 2005. Their defense establishment keeps trying to buy fighters, first Legacy Hornets, refurbished Kfirs, then later F-16s (and its been going so long that there were different F-16 almost-deals, like embargoed Pakistani F-16A/Bs, used F-16C/Ds, new F-16C/Ds, F-16Vs, and so on). Every time a deal looks like is about to be closed, there's a new presidential administration, and some general, bureaucrat, or Asian Pierre Sprey who has been hanging out at the Saab sales office in Manila lately comes up to the new leaders and goes "what about the Gripen instead? It's a superweapon that's super cheap, beats F-35. Look at all these sources on the internet!" and they kibosh the deal to "look into it". Every single time, the result of the interruption is "no, we need _ instead" but poof the offer has been long gone and they have to start over again. Some genius in the establishment snuck in ersatz-fighters in the guise of the the South Korean T-50 as an advanced trainer. I mean, it IS an advanced trainer, but it's also the only fighter the Philippine Air Force has had from 2017 to the present. It's also curiously in the same weight and payload class as the Gripen, and basically has the same engine. Even when Saab tried to manipulate its way into a sale they took an L and sold someone else's nearly-identical product instead

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

This confirms my priors so I believe this is the truth 100%

@wilmeroberg9794 4 ай бұрын

Okay but for real do you have any sources for this because it sounds interesting

@marty4286 4 ай бұрын

@@wilmeroberg9794 No writeup of it anywhere, it was a horrorshow I witnessed in realtime. So much coping and seething and hair-pulling from all sides. Saab isn't even really at fault, they lobbied what they thought were corrupt government officials as normal (every defense company does this), but there was more corruption than they could handle on top of staggering incompetence. They didn't realize that the Philippines was a "don't ever send bids here" kind of country. If they knew what they were doing they would have been lobbying the JUSMAG office at the US Embassy, not the Philippine bureaucracy and military itself. It's not guaranteed to work, but it's better than the direct route

@thorluis226 4 ай бұрын

The grippen is a ultra-specific aircraft like the mig-25 or the sr-71, it was made to use austire road bases, fight a asymmetrical war against soviet forces. It was never a plane made for “modern” warfare. It has a excellent radar and ew suite, and is very easy to integrate weapons, bring the only true rival the f35 has with the ease of weapon integration. It has low range due to fighting a war near its borders, a small payload due to expecting to never have the chance to be airborne long and the small size to be able to land and be maintained by conscripts in a road base. It is a good aircraft, but it is not an attack-oriented aircraft like the f35, hence the lower mantaince costs compared to the f35 and f16 at the cost of range and payload.

@1rb1s_ 4 ай бұрын

Holy based

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

We hate the Gripen and fake news on this channel.

@chish7690 4 ай бұрын

I'm a Swedish fanboy but I can't say Gripen's gonna beat a stealth fighter.

@Ghent_Halcyon 4 ай бұрын

Neat vid.

@wilmeroberg9794 4 ай бұрын

1:50 What is a 6th generation fighter?

@FirstNameLastName-qx8ii 4 ай бұрын

Thank you, I’ve been saying this forever

@josippetkovic389 4 ай бұрын

Hit like 3 times

@RoachEatsVipers 4 ай бұрын

Uhhh... but did u hear the gripen shot down 5 f16s or whatever the fuck in red flag 2005?

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

*insert source crackpipe meme*

@CREELAST 4 ай бұрын

20:05 dude I like your channel but pls when you put these images try to censor it a bit, is not pleasant to see, I am watching this video bcs gripen not to see children in near-death situations.

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

I'll take that into account in the future and perhaps add content warnings. However I think the whole point I was trying to drive home is what a deranged person David Archibald is and I think just paraphrasing his tweets wouldn't really have the same effect. I was pretty shocked when I stumbled across them. He has a lot of tweets to the same effect.

@Ghent_Halcyon 4 ай бұрын

A content warning would be nice, but complete censoring gets annoying.

@TyphoonTranche5 4 ай бұрын

well explained bro

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

Thanks I tried to keep the scope limited.

@wilmeroberg9794 4 ай бұрын

Just some comments about the video: 5:15 The Gripen has 10 hardpoints, there is no fighter that has 20 6:05 Another reason there are 3 times as many F-35's as JAS-39's is because the US has 160 times larger defense budget than Sweden ($766 billion to $4.8 billion) and maybe 100 more factories for production. 14:00 Also note that this story is weird because SAAB would've probably used it in their marketing since 2006 if this was true. 21:04 Why would someone who celebrates Palestinian deaths in the war want Austrailia to buy JAS-39's sold by Sweden --one of very few countries to support Palestine in the war against Israel for the past 70 years? Additionally: Why would SAAB make false claims about their aircraft but Lockheed wouldn't? I think a great example of this is that Gripen pilots and SAAB claim that the jet can pull 12 G's while Lockheed and General Dynamics claim that the F-16 pulls 9 G's, despite this people either like to argue that the F-16 actually pulls 18 G's, that the Gripen only pulls max 9 G's, or a combination of both.

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

I think your comment deserves a more detailed explanation and research that I can provide right now. I'm not currently at home so I am only using my cell phone. I'll try to respond to points brought up with numbered list. 1. I don't think I was specifically speaking of hard points or even thinking about them. I think things like range / time on station might be more important. I.e if I can leave the same number of planes in the air for much longer then that can be a substantial increase in capability depending on the mission-set. Or even if the hard points are the same amount... something like an F-15E with conformal fuel tanks is probably a much more capable plane in the Air to Ground role. (A more nuanced answer would have to source a bunch of information and actually analyze a bunch of planes side by side and also look at how Air Forces quantify that kind of capability / mission planning /etc. 2. I don't think this really matters that much. Both the F-16 and F-35 are produced/assembled in the same plant. And all of these aviation companies have extremely over-lapping supply chains. There would be more Gripens if there was demand for more Gripens. 3. SAAB definitely would have used it as part of their marketing. The story simply can't be true because the planes that he claims was there could not have been there. Also I think the results would have leaked to the actual press and not just showed up on some message board 15 years later. 4. I think you are over- estimating the consistency of terminally online right wingers. Often times the inconsistency of their beliefs is a feature of their ideology. For Archibald, fan-boying over the Gripen is purely to use it as a cudgel to criticize Australia's choice of the F-35. 5. As far as I am aware, the Gripen does have the ability to pull 12G in an emergency situation. The F-16 does not have the ability to pull 12G because the flight computer doesn't have the option to increase the G limit. Structurally the plane is probably capable of handling it...but it just isn't something that was programmed into the flight computer.

@Hairysteed 4 ай бұрын

Gripen has 10 hardpoints in the same sense that the F-16 has 11 - some of them can only mount a targeting pod, others a jammer or a fuel tank.

@mintman825 2 ай бұрын

@@Hairysteed yeah only the Gripen E has 10 hard points as well 3 of which NEED to be taken by tanks and 1 that needs to be taken by a tpod

@berget3683 4 ай бұрын

True yappaholic

@thetrujelo 4 ай бұрын

In War Thunder the Gripen was suposed to lose 1 more degree per second than it did, and its thrust curves are currently incorrect (likely what is contributing to its sustained rate).

@wilmeroberg9794 4 ай бұрын

There is literally no way to know anything here, the only thing that is available to the public is the engine's raw thrust (not accounting for loss in the ducts and nozzle), that it can pull 12 G's (which Gaijin threw out the window and instead claimed it can do 7 G's at most) and that it has a roll rate of something like 360 degrees/s (which Gaijin also threw out the window because "that's too high for our game to handle"). You do not know the thrust curve nor the turn rate of a Gripen.

@mintman825 2 ай бұрын

@@wilmeroberg9794 Gripen A has had its STR and ITR performance on the web for a long while; 12 degrees STR 24 degrees ITR 26 degree aoa limited i.imgur.com/cA5nuxO.jpg www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1029&start=315 heres a nice little thread about it

@RogueBeatsARG 4 ай бұрын

The F-22 entered service in 2005 so no way it was at red flag in 2006

@kunaukedi4850 4 ай бұрын

What 😂 why not isn't that the perfect situation to test it's capabilities

@RogueBeatsARG 4 ай бұрын

@@kunaukedi4850 too soon, there always be problems to fix when a plane enters service, you don't want to have problems with your shinny new "next gen" fighter in front of all your NATO friends

@kunaukedi4850 4 ай бұрын

@@RogueBeatsARG The plane goes through extensive testing to polish out all the issues with it before it enters service. It's like saying after a 2024 version car comes out, they recall it to fix the issues then dish it out again. Remember USA military acquisition is privatised, if a jet enters service as a production variant it's already been purchased and upgrades are paid for not free

@spray916 4 ай бұрын

Why does the Gripen suck? It's produced by SAAB.

@its2three4 4 ай бұрын

this is an angry comment of me stating I have liked and subscribed >:c

@drksideofthewal 4 ай бұрын

It’s funny, because a lot of the arguments for how great the Gripen supposedly is are the same as what Russian fanboys use. “It’s so rugged, it can take off from dirt roads!” That’s cute, but it doesn’t address the “sudden existence failure” problem that 4th gens run into if they fly near an IAD without stealth.

@squishface80085 4 ай бұрын

The SAAB marketing term is "Active Stealth"...which is just another word for using electronic warfare...which is something that stealth aircraft are capable of doing as well.

@user-jy6cn3jy8g 4 ай бұрын

And even late Su-27 and its modifications like Su-30MKI or Su-35 still sell better than the Gripen which means that military forces prefer Su’s over Gripen’s which means that even these planes(that are literally just F-15’s but with worse avionics) are better than the Gripen in the ways that really matter in modern war (and both Su and Gripen cost ~60-90M$) so how can the Gripen be better than F-35/22 then? This is the question that no Gripen’s fan will answer😂

@wilmeroberg9794 4 ай бұрын

The Gripen has poor stealth but similar EW capabilities to the F-35. Instead of chaff it deploys small pods that emitt radar waves, when it detects incoming radar it copies the frequency and sends a signal back that makes it look like there are multiple Gripens in the air and makes it impossible to lock on to.

@kunaukedi4850 4 ай бұрын

@@user-jy6cn3jy8gmilitary acquisitions have a lot of politics that go into it and I'll just ask you. Since when did being Sweden's friend get you anything in the grand scheme of things. We all know the urus is baically an Audi rsq8 but would rather buy the urus coz it's Lamborghini selling it oh and previous Saab projects didn't go so well so that might also be a huge factor in acquisition. No one wants to spend 60-80 mill per jet only to spend the same on maintenance of the avionics coz they're advanced (but cheaply made.)

@hemendraravi4787 4 ай бұрын

sure russian fanboys say that but man its kinda sad to see that the mig29/su27 are not even in the top 5 best dogfighters list of top tier. maybe stuff like mig29k will change this (it gets better engine with 2kN extra thrust , even mirage 2000 sucked irl but after they got better engines they were better but not sure if this may work out for the mig29 like the mirage) but it sure is sad to see russian jets winning bvr fights and nato jets dominating in wvr in war thunder lmao.