Sindel vs Twindel: Which One Has More "Agency"? | MisKonceptions

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The4thSnake

The4thSnake

11 ай бұрын

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Пікірлер: 404
@ubermaster134
@ubermaster134 11 ай бұрын
Me and my friend's argument against Twindel is the simple line said by Shao Kahn. "MMM... WIFE" because Twindel is just Shao Kahn's wife which is boring
@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977
@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977 11 ай бұрын
"mmm wife" in Homer Simpsons voice
@cameronjohnson9361
@cameronjohnson9361 11 ай бұрын
I think it does work for him works for her but is meh love the sheeva part though it’s always how I read the mk3 part for sheeva like she was jade for Sindel regardless of her affiliation
@FranciscoFJM
@FranciscoFJM 11 ай бұрын
Wife, go and beat our next oponnent while i furiously masturbate in the background
@JahlisMan
@JahlisMan 11 ай бұрын
@@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977 Borat for me:D
@people2chronically-online
@people2chronically-online 8 ай бұрын
Better than the generic mind controlled turned good
@SonicHaXD
@SonicHaXD 11 ай бұрын
Never thought Edenian's betraying people is this common in the franchise XD
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
Makes me wonder if Raiden is an outcast amongst the Gods: Raiden had to explicitly tell Fujin to have patience with the humans in MK4, when Fujin was promoted to Protector God, and he seemed to neglect his duties. However, even Raiden started out as arrogant in the original MK1, and lost his patience in Deception. Shao Kahn was in a role similar to Raiden (assume this means protector god) before betraying Onaga and seizing power for himself. Edenian's are decended from the Gods (it's why they live so long), and are often seen as power-hunger back-stabbers. Even Argus had an illegitimate son he ignored, and toyed with his other two sons. Then there is Shinnok, yet even the other Elder Gods are pretty useless and really don't like to get involved with mortal affairs, even when the realms are about to be destroyed they barely lift a finger. The one thing they fear is the One Being, and when there was a legitimate chance of his return they sent a single mortal (Scorpion) to deal with it.
@Ergeniz
@Ergeniz 11 ай бұрын
@@EndoScorpion Gods have always been a complete joke in MK.
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
@@EndoScorpionmfs are even theorising that Jerrod is apparently gonna be this new threat to liu kang’s new era, which basically (if it acc happens), edenia is a bs realm, in terms of morality
@derekmaullo2865
@derekmaullo2865 11 ай бұрын
​@@ErgenizGod doesn't exist
@naos8116
@naos8116 11 ай бұрын
​@@EndoScorpionThen you see in MK11, Fujin is even more out of touch with the typical ways of the gods than Raiden, as he explained to Jax in that game, that living amongst humans was the only time he argued and fought with Raiden.
@chaoticspider836
@chaoticspider836 11 ай бұрын
It blows my mind how desperate people are trying to justify the assassination of a character #notmysindel
@SaltyCalhoun
@SaltyCalhoun 11 ай бұрын
Right? And it's not even like they're fans of the reboot since, if they actually knew the story of 9 and 10, they'd know Twindel was under mind control for most of her appearances before Aftermath. They're just bandwagoners that think they now best about a series they just jumped onto.
@SuperPal-tr3go
@SuperPal-tr3go 10 ай бұрын
Are people/fans actually trying to justify it? This explanation is so bad than I can't believe people are seriously entertaining it, especially if they claim to progressive.
@rymreaper
@rymreaper 11 ай бұрын
A posterboy equivalent to this mk11 sindel retcon would be if Scorpion was retconned to be always evil , killed his own family to obtain power in Netherrealm and worship Quan Chi by his own will. Yeah an iconic character , what made him iconic is gone and replaced with something so stupid and shallow.
@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr
@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr 11 ай бұрын
Your comment explains perfectly on why Twindel doesn’t work as a character, and it’s hilarious how the SJWS online fails to understands that line of reasoning that you and people like yourself share.
@gillfreddie4100
@gillfreddie4100 11 ай бұрын
Holy shit that is such a good way of wording it. I swear, with what they did to sindel, it would not be surprising anymore if netherrealm actually did this heinous butcher to scorpion's cahracter.
@rymreaper
@rymreaper 11 ай бұрын
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr problem with sjws is that they don't do research and try to dee the other side, if one says something that aligns with their views even slightly, they will try to latch onto it thinking that any critisism is opposing their views. While it's not true. Sindel's original story is empowering not this Twindel evil retcon. Being evil is not empowering, I know that an evil character can be badass like OG Shao Kahn, Sektor etc. Also a lot of people ignore the 3D era and think it's trash without even going through the story and actually playing . So they didn't even know how badass Sindel was . How Badass shao kahn was.
@rymreaper
@rymreaper 11 ай бұрын
@@gillfreddie4100 there's a theory that kuai liang is Scorpion, I really don't like this. I don't hate it either . Shirai Ryu was formed from lin kuei and Scorpion is a nickname like a mantel. It's just too weird.
@BlueSunStudios1
@BlueSunStudios1 10 ай бұрын
@@gillfreddie4100 Ed Boon would never do that. He'd sooner butcher everyone else just to make Scorpion even more sympathetic like he did Bi-Han.
@TheSmart-CasualGamer
@TheSmart-CasualGamer 11 ай бұрын
People claim a "lack of agency" with Midway Timeline Sindel because they haven't played the games from the 3D era. They just know that she's mind controlled in MK3 and assume that that's it. This is because games past MK4 can't be mentioned unless it's Kenshi, Quan Chi or mocking Hsu Hao!
@stefanradebach2889
@stefanradebach2889 11 ай бұрын
I feel like THIS is the official breaking point in terms of NRS hating on the 3D Era because it has reached the point where they will outright ignore story and characters to "justify" their atrocious writing. Also mocking Hsu Hao has become so overdone that it feels like beating a revenant horse and it's no longer funny by this point.
@MusicoftheDamned
@MusicoftheDamned 11 ай бұрын
You forgot Tanya being a traitorous bitch being like the only other 3D era thing that gets used consistently, especially since it's *way* more consistent than her skin color is. Then again, as the very video showed, Edenians being traitorous isn't really unique for some reason, so maybe that doesn't count.
@spiritofarkham1235
@spiritofarkham1235 11 ай бұрын
To be fair unless you have an emulator or buy a really old console and track down those games it is difficult to actually play those games. I just watched old walkthoughs of 3D era games because I don't have the time to track down those games. NeatherRealm should just remaster those games already instead of making more generic shit.
@voidqueen0423
@voidqueen0423 11 ай бұрын
@@spiritofarkham1235 You say it like it's hard to emulate them. You don't even need a PC to do it. If you're console only, you can emulate using xbox series s/x
@spiritofarkham1235
@spiritofarkham1235 11 ай бұрын
@@voidqueen0423 Sure but not everybody has the newer xbox consoles. Some poeple only have playstation consoles.
@MaskedPlayer514
@MaskedPlayer514 11 ай бұрын
Even her original death had more agency because she killed herself as opposed to dying to the lord commander of doing everything Quanchi
@aceofsharks9837
@aceofsharks9837 11 ай бұрын
Agency ≠ Quality of Character. In discussion of a character, their agency or lack thereof is just one of the facets in their progression or regression, rather than the end all be all metric of quality. I'll use Logan from Marvel Comics and Megatron from Transformers for example. Both characters go through periods where they lack agency, which bears importance on their character growth. Logan's time as a slave/living weapon under mind control as Weapon X plays a significant role in his future characterization and principles. Having lived through the horror of losing free will, he staunchly opposes such methods whenever they present themselves, be it from an ally or enemy. In the Aligned continuity, Megatron was once a worker & gladiator in Cybertron's social hierarchy. "Born" into his tier in their cast system, he & his kind were forced into a life of hard labor and servitude, no matter what their aspirations were. Such a lack of agency motivated him into establishing the Decepticons and waging war to rule Cybertron how he sees fit. Later on, after eons of growing into the same type of despotic leadership he original rebelled against, he was once again stripped of his agency by Unicron. By freshly experiencing the cruelty of subjugation, he finally "lost the taste" for inflicting it, and disbanded the Decepticons. These two examples show different ways agency plays a role in a character's development, but the matter of agency didn't determine the quality of their characterization.
@cui8789
@cui8789 11 ай бұрын
Hell, Smoke has had far less agency than Sindel throughout his appearances, being a cyborg slave in for most of the Midway era and later becoming a revenant slave in 9 and X. Yet no one is saying he'd be better off if it was retconned that he never liked Kuai Liang and always wanted to be a cyborg.
@AmateurAnimations65
@AmateurAnimations65 11 ай бұрын
Sindel is a fully fleshed out character with a complete character arc. Twindel is a saturday morning cartoon badguy that just spent the last 72 hours on various social media to learn what a human is supposed to act like
@pogggaming4470
@pogggaming4470 9 ай бұрын
Glad we got Sindel in mk 1 and not twindel
@Freddyfazbendy5901
@Freddyfazbendy5901 8 ай бұрын
@@pogggaming4470too bad twindel, killed sindel (I was meant to make a meme, also spoilers for mk1, that did happen)
@people2chronically-online
@people2chronically-online 8 ай бұрын
Better than the generic mind controlled turned good
@stefanradebach2889
@stefanradebach2889 11 ай бұрын
One of the major fundamental problems with with retcon Sindel, alongside everything else, is how even THAT character makes no sense in the context given how she only valued those that had power and strength yet for some reason rescues and heals Shao Kahn despite the latter getting his ass kicked by his daughter and blinded? NRS did retconed her character because they "didn't like" how she was a "damsel" in the original timeline despite how it's ONLY in the third game and weirdly enough Kitana is the one whose actually more of a damsel than Sindel, so where's her retcon then? However what they did with Sindel in MK11 ended up turning her into a glorified trophy wife for Shao Kahn which is not that different from what they criticized. Maybe making her into an anti-villain who wants to save and protect Edenia so desperately after what happened that she decides to attack and merge the realms for her home to never fall into the hands of Shao Kahn would have worked much better, made more sense and add in tragic irony to what she has become.
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
How is Kitana in any way a "damsel" in the original timeline?
@stefanradebach2889
@stefanradebach2889 11 ай бұрын
@@EndoScorpion From what i have read on the wiki page she was captured and imprisoned by Shao Kahn after the events of MK2, by Shinnok's forces in MK4 and was revived by and enslaved by Onaga in MK Deception, although she did manage to escape prison from the first two though.
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
@@stefanradebach2889 In MK2 Kitana learns through her own investigation that she is not Shao Kahn's daughter, and that she decends from the true rulers of Outworld. Shao Kahn and Mileena suspecting Kitana's dissension, Mileena was tasked to stop Kitana at all costs. It cost Mileena her life. In MK3, Kitana was accused of treason by the High Courts of Outworld after "murdering" Mileena. Kitana evades capture and escapes to Earthrealm to try and reach Sindel. She was not imprisoned here (that's an MK9 thing). She survives an assassination attempt from Reptile and convinced Jade to aid her. Here she learns her heritage is actually Edenian, not of Outworld. MK4 Shinnock and his goons (including Mileena) surprise-attack the newly freed Edenia and imprison everyone. Then Shinnok uses this as a based in order to attack the High Hreavens. Kitana frees herself, defeats Mileena and imprisons her. And then helps the Earthrealmers stop Shinnok. She then forms an alliance with Goro and the Shokan. Deadly Alliance, the Edenian/Shokan allied forces are at war with Outworld. Goro is "killed" by Noob Saibot. Kitana attends the funeral and later joins the heroes in their assault on the Deadly Alliance. Kitana dies along with the rest of the heroes to the Tarkatan horde, which were alerted by Bo Rai Cho trying to save Li Mei. Onaga-controlled Kitana was used to capture and guard Sindel, who was freed by Jade. Ermac and Liu Kang free the hero "revenants" of their mind control. Only 2 out of the 5 were female so I wouldn't call them "damsels in distress". They were more "revenant enforcers", rather than being locked in a castle awaiting rescue by a man in shiny armour.
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
@@stefanradebach2889 BTW I use the actual game bios/endings for reference (seen on Mortal Kombat Warehouse), rather than the wiki which paraphrases things and can muddle things up. It does mean cross-referencing with other bio/endings to find out which are canon, but that was alway part of the fun back in the day, before Story Mode.
@IvanDubsK7
@IvanDubsK7 11 ай бұрын
Seems like their lorekeepers aren’t very good at understanding lore hmmm suspicious
@cui8789
@cui8789 11 ай бұрын
I am fully convinced the only reason anyone defends the Sindel retcon is because of fetish fuel.
@JahlisMan
@JahlisMan 11 ай бұрын
I had one guy tell me, no joke, that Twindel is better 'cause her chemistry with Shao was so good his dick got hard for it. That's the people we're talking about here.
@Yougotcaged102
@Yougotcaged102 11 ай бұрын
I'm pretty indifferent on it to be honest. I mean obviously it's bad writing, no question there, I just never cared that much about Sindel in general. If this were the old timeline, I'd be more upset, but Sindel had like no character in the 2 games before Aftermath so the most it annoyed me was how basic her intro dialogue. Most of it boiled down to "I'm evil, Haha kneel slave, I want to fuck you btw, also I want to kill you" she isn't even an INTERESTING villain. It's the most uninspired dialogue in the whole game
@jackdaone6469
@jackdaone6469 11 ай бұрын
Wouldn’t surprise me. I mean, the voice actress does the Sultry Dommy Mommy schtick well, at least.
@trainerredcharizard7982
@trainerredcharizard7982 11 ай бұрын
Might Be true..And she Does Look The best from The MK females. Same fetish Fuel Well IS used with Chun Li And cammy but they are not retcon into evil. ..yet
@moseslalmuanpuia8988
@moseslalmuanpuia8988 10 ай бұрын
So true. They want to satisfying their kink
@OinglorBoinglor
@OinglorBoinglor 11 ай бұрын
I can only assume Twindel's respecting power being inconsistent with Kitana proving herself stronger than Shao Kahn is explained by the most flat reasoning that Shao Kahn would rule with an iron fist and let Sindel do the same, versus Kitana wanting to rule justly. Because being the mother of ruler of Outworld and still having great influence simply isn't worth it if you can't beat your subjects around for shits and giggles I guess.
@Aztyph
@Aztyph 11 ай бұрын
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the Raiden in _Armageddon_ didn't send a message to his past self, but to a past Raiden from a parallel dimension. It's the only reason why everything is drastically different, such as the Twindel nonsense and Shao Kahn being an unintelligent brute, amongst many other things. Thank you, random-ass thought while I was half asleep at four in the morning.
@sylasexd
@sylasexd 11 ай бұрын
NRS Sindel was actually pretty simillar to Midway Sindel before Aftermath.
@JorgeF69
@JorgeF69 11 ай бұрын
I have thoughts like this for example tavens ending being cannon, cause when he won armagedon all the fighters got powered up through his armour, that's how shao khan ended up getting the power up and beating onaga and then just went through the rest of the combatants that's how he ended up killing everyone
@schemar17
@schemar17 11 ай бұрын
​@@JorgeF69that would mean onaga got a power up as well meaning shao kahn couldn't beat him
@cameronjohnson9361
@cameronjohnson9361 11 ай бұрын
lol they explained in a tweet it goes midway timeline redo mk vs dc redo then khan wins Armageddon then he must win they basically used Kronika as a excuse for their awful writing
@saidi7975
@saidi7975 11 ай бұрын
@@sylasexd YES, about that , her MK9 ending literally uses her original benevolent personality !
@PandaKnightsFightingDragons
@PandaKnightsFightingDragons 10 ай бұрын
Evil Sindel "having more agency" feels like some hardcore recency bias that's just comparing the new timeline to itself
@themememaster9582
@themememaster9582 11 ай бұрын
It goes to show just how infuriating Sindel’s character in the Neatherrealm games is when we are currently on the 16th damn video about it.
@DalekOfChaos666
@DalekOfChaos666 11 ай бұрын
Why'd they make SIndel a traitor WHEN TANYA WAS RIGHT FUCKING THERE???? See, I knew things would go bad when they made Tanya an Edenian freedom fighter.
@malachibaskette908
@malachibaskette908 8 ай бұрын
They definitely used the concept of Tanya n gave it to sindel
@rcblazer
@rcblazer 11 ай бұрын
You may not like talking about Twindel, but you are the best when it comes to breaking down why retconning the character of Sindel from a mind controlled Edenian queen who redeems herself once she breaks free to another generic villain was a terrible idea by Netherealm whether they are willing to admit it or not.
@naos8116
@naos8116 11 ай бұрын
And it's kind of insulting to the character, given she literally committed suicide because Shao was that bad. It'd be like if DoA had a reboot and made Ayume the loving wife of Raidou instead, and keeping Raidou just as awful as he was previously.
@Tenerens1s
@Tenerens1s 11 ай бұрын
woooo more twindel videos!!! also thank god you made this though. i’ve seen some people say twindel has more agency by downplaying sindel’s character by saying she used to just be ‘kitana’s mother’ like how jade used to be ‘kitana’s friend’ before the whole kotal romance thing💀 edit: if we’re also goin by that logic, then twindel can also just be boiled down to ‘shao kahn’s wife’ lmfaooo
@SoupCanMafia
@SoupCanMafia 11 ай бұрын
Or should we say "Shao Kahn's WAIF"
@MusicoftheDamned
@MusicoftheDamned 11 ай бұрын
I am still more mystified about people viewing the tepid and forced romance between Jade and one of the series's worst written characters than I am by people stupidly reducing Sindel to "Kitana's mother" like Sindel never did anything but birth Kitana and then die even after being revived. At least with Jade & Kotal, however, I can vaguely get being *such* a sucker for romance that you will gladly take any romantic coupling, no matter how poorly written. In a way that even works for Shao & Twindel even though every time they show "affection" to each other I'm reminded of that 1998 _Lost in Space_ meme: "I love you too...wife." [/completely deadpan] Honestly, the dumbest thing about Sindel "just" being Kitana's mother is that *Twindel is still "just" Kitana's mother too.* Since NRS didn't also retcon Quan Chi giving birth to Kitana (ugh) and since being terrible parent & person doesn't magically make someone not (biologically) said bad parent's child, Twindel is arguably gulltier of "just" being that than Sindel is given how much of Twindel's _Aftermath_ story is either bitching about Kitana. Sindel at least also went out of the way to help others too while focusing on saving her daughter, especially after Kitana was saved. Meanwhile Twindel is *so* pettily self-obsessed that she has to bring up Kitana like 50% of the time, in part because she think Kitana's goodness/"weakness" makes Twindel look worse and disgusts her. How empowering and full of agency. /s
@PrimevalParadise
@PrimevalParadise 11 ай бұрын
Midway Sindel: *spends only one game under mind control and spends the rest of her appearances redeeming herself for her act of hara-kiri along with her time under mind control* NRS fanboys: "Boring Kitana's mom" NRS Twindel: *went from master to master then her "free will" is a complete inversion of the real character to the point that even her selfish act that she needs to redeem herself for was retconned TWICE* NRS fanboys: "Omg she has agency, much agency, very good character" (They only like her because of the graphical fidelity)
@zeldacereza
@zeldacereza 11 ай бұрын
This, it’s literally because of the graphics, her nice voice acting and design that people have started to “like her this way”. Which tbh I prefer her old design anyway. But that’s besides the point. Her story arc before was way more unique and complex, I was so looking forward to seeing her reappear in the modern games because I loved her back story so much, only to get this shitty version. But people love a “boss bitch” so much that they’d rather have this shitty version even when theres zero consistency or good writing for her.
@claystedman6923
@claystedman6923 11 ай бұрын
@@zeldacereza Agreed. If anything I actually think this is the weakest design for Sindel. I miss her white eyes and her hair looking more lively and grand, but in 11 when shes not in combat her hair is just straight and boring.
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
So much agency she could reform the OuterWorld Investigation Agency.
@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr
@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr 11 ай бұрын
@@claystedman6923, WB Studios just did a lazy redesign of Ivy where she’s an anti-hero and anti-villain, so the WB Studios fanboys can’t shit on SoulCalibur, but praise the WB Studios video games religiously because Twindel is shittier version of Ivy from SoulCalibur.
@marcusrimson6330
@marcusrimson6330 11 ай бұрын
​@@zeldacerezaOld Sindel is way hotter
@LLSmoothJ
@LLSmoothJ 11 ай бұрын
They claimed that Twindel was given agency, but in truth all they did was make her into a Karen while appealing to those with a Dommy Mommy fetish.
@nicolasramos2170
@nicolasramos2170 11 ай бұрын
the retcon takes so much of the character's complexity imo. What I love about the original Sindel is: The fact that she looked evil but wasn't, the fact that despite of being so powerful she was a victim of abuse and tiranny from someone more powerful than her and yet overcame It all and Like Kratos in the new God of war games the mysterious nature of being a an ancient being and still suffer through such humane problems.
@Yougotcaged102
@Yougotcaged102 11 ай бұрын
She never really had much complexity with the Netherrelm timeline. She basically showed, got mind controlled (for some reason) killed a bunch of people, died. She was probably less complex than Stryker throughout the past 3 Games. Which is funny because she was in all of the past 3 story modes, while Stryker was only in 1
@Thomas20Smith
@Thomas20Smith 11 ай бұрын
@@Yougotcaged102which I don’t like considering the Special Forces became the de facto good faction against the Netherrealm and they couldn’t have found a place for Stryker among them as just a kameo character
@Yougotcaged102
@Yougotcaged102 11 ай бұрын
@@Thomas20Smith Yeah it's pretty weird they brought back Styrker just to do absolutely nothing with him. Which I guess is bound to happen with some characters in games with such massive rosters, but I would have preferred him as DLC over Tanya or Bo Rai Cho
@NaquanGreen-zt4gr
@NaquanGreen-zt4gr 11 ай бұрын
​@@Thomas20Smith Stryker got done dirty in the NRS timeline.
@NaquanGreen-zt4gr
@NaquanGreen-zt4gr 11 ай бұрын
​@@Thomas20Smith Unfortunately the special forces got done dirty in MK11. Due to the complaints from "MK fans" Cassie cage who was set up as the new chosen one and main character of the NRS games. was demoted and brought back the much more boring and less interesting Liu Kang as the protagonist. Not just her but her friends Takeda, Jacqui Briggs and Kung Jin.
@oolooo
@oolooo 11 ай бұрын
All of us Sindel simps and Twindel haters pulling up EVERY TIME we see a video clowning on this retcon .We are dutiful to the Death .
@dragonstormx
@dragonstormx 11 ай бұрын
I also dislike Twindel because of all the pointless darkness. Sindel's redemption made her a character who represents hope.
@SkarletShogun
@SkarletShogun 11 ай бұрын
Twindel fans also believe she can solo cetrion without help, she's an eldergod who's underrated tbh but she shouldn't have lost to twindel
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
They had the perfect plot to have dark raiden vs elder gods plot line. Most MK characters can acc realise that the elder gods are literally giant villains themselves but they also have dark raiden to deal with. Considering elder gods has never got a major plot point to begin with, it could have been a good idea to have that be a way to progress the story forward to a new direction. But NRS dropped the ball with time travel
@Xertaron.
@Xertaron. 11 ай бұрын
I always considered character having "agency" when they make decisions in the story that makes sense for them, not what the plot requires them to do or some choice regarding them is made by someone else. Twindel doesn't have agency, because her goals are never made clear and she flipflops between conflicting wants so much and is contradictory in so many instances that she's barely a character. MK11 dials up "Quan Chi was behind everything" to 11 (ha ha) and ruins Shao Kahn even further by claiming that he was manipulated by Quan Chi for at least 10000 years and somehow never found out that he killed Sindel, which is ludicrous. That's of course besides the fact that in the original timeline their first interaction was Quan Chi and Shang Tsung killing him in Deadly Alliance (unless I forgot something).
@cui8789
@cui8789 11 ай бұрын
I think it was established in the Midway era that Quan Chi helped in the creation of Mileena (or I'm getting it confused with the original Tarkatans' backstory where they were created from fusing Outworlders with Netherealm demons).
@BlueSunStudios1
@BlueSunStudios1 10 ай бұрын
@@cui8789 Yeah, the original Tarkatans were just hybrids of Netherrealm demons and Outworlders that Quan Chi I believe had nothing to do with, although Shang Tsung did have a hand in creating Mileena, something that was not said of Quan Chi. Mileena apparently had been created a thousand years before the first MK game was given the purpose of replacing Kitana and ruling Outworld-later Edenia eventually, being able to read her mind for instance. She stopped liking working for Shao Kahn around the time of Armageddon and wanted to strike out on her own as the ruler of Edenia now that Shao Kahn has Outworld again. She was also quite clever at pretending to be Kitana during the time of Deception and Armageddon rather than acting incredibly impulsive and self-destructive, and she never saw Shao Kahn as her father.
@wdcain1
@wdcain1 11 ай бұрын
What's stupid is according to the MK4 prequel comic, Sindel was queen of Edenia so she was a legitimate girl-boss.
@The13thElysium
@The13thElysium 11 ай бұрын
100 % agree - its almost a wider issue of MK11 characters being simplified beyond recognition. Sindel was always a complex character who had a tradgic story but she was able to over come her trauma! Hopefully MK1 will fix her!!!
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
Considering how they're breaking other characters now, and giving them the Twindel treatment.... I doubt Sindel will be fixed.
@TheMarlboro-Man
@TheMarlboro-Man 11 ай бұрын
This man's dedication to this subject is unmatched . Its like a fire that burns eternally . Good shit .
@vaggos2003
@vaggos2003 11 ай бұрын
Here is something else about the "agency" argument. Without mind-control, Midway Sindel was ruling Edenia alongside Jerrod before Kahn's conquest of Edenia, she ruled Outworkd a bit with Kahn, she ruled Edenia after his defeat and waged war against him (which she was winning btw), she was planning Onaga's downfall by herself and she joined the Forces of Light in Armageddon with her own decision. Her story ends with her dying in that battle. With assistance she was freed from Onaga by Jade and from Shao Kahn by Shujinko. Without mind-control, NRS Sindel ruled Edenia with Jerrod before Kahn's conquest, ruled Outworld a bit with Kahn, turned the Shokan againat Kitana and freed Shao Kahn. With assistance, she planned to overthrow Kronika with Shang Tsung and she turned the tide in MK11's climax with Shao Kahn and Shang Tsung. Her story ended with her dying in that battle. (There is also the argument that Midway Sindel had agency over her own death and had Kahn give enough of a damn to keep her soul for future usage, as well as her being freed being done for people who care about her, a.k.a. her own daughter, whereas NRS Sindel gets assassinated and her "loving husband" didn't bother ressurecting her out of love or to get rid of what he believed was an impenetrable force field despite having 2 necromancers at his service, and her being freed was done for the sake of usefulness, but that whole argument can be a bit in bad taste, especially the "agency over death" part, so feel to take/not take ot into consideration.) Also, Midway Sindel received 1 type of mind-control and died twice, whereas NRS Sindel received 2 types of mind-control and died 3 times. Midway Sindel definitely has more feats under her belt, buuuuuuut this could just be attributed to the Midway timelibe just having more inatallmebts than the NRS one, so it by technicality isn't that much more impressive, don't you think? So, anyway, in Aftermath's final chapter it is revealed that Shang had orchestrated everything so that he would overthrow Kronika and take over all of existense, so he betrays Shao Kahn and Sindel and kills them after beating in a fight where they both had a 2v1 advantage over him, meaning that everything Sindel accomplished in the 2 Aftermath chapters she supposedly "had gained agency" were all part of Shang Tsung's scheme without Sindel's knowledge or approval! Midway Sindel was freed from the plans of a power-hungry man, whereas NRS Sindel waa manipulated and overpowered by a power-hungry man and died unceremoniously the exact same day she "gained agency". Yes, Twindel, your agency plans sure do look great in retrospect.
@raimyonlinewarrior236
@raimyonlinewarrior236 11 ай бұрын
Great, so when people say twindel has more agency, i can show them this video and prove them wrong. Thanks Snake.
@starrsmith3810
@starrsmith3810 11 ай бұрын
Sindel had far more agency back then she ever has now. The only good thing about that stupid insulting retcon is that it made me appreciate her OG character more.
@delbeto982
@delbeto982 11 ай бұрын
Ooo glad I stayed awake for this
@LeCuttyFlam
@LeCuttyFlam 11 ай бұрын
I just love the fact that this guy use a lot of time and energy for Syndel. Pure gold.
@Jahlil.W
@Jahlil.W 11 ай бұрын
4:01 I guess you could also count Daegon, but he's not allied with any specific realm as a whole, although his faction is based in Earthrealm.
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
Wasn't the quest/contest (other than culling the overpowered kombatants), made so the winner gains full godhood and becomes protector god / ruler of Edenia?
@tonythunder6048
@tonythunder6048 11 ай бұрын
I would’ve liked if they remembered that in mk9 Shang Tsung was killed and his soul was put inside Sindel. What if, after revived Sindel was possessed by the Mk9 Shang Tsung, it could explain the weird Banshee spirit in mk11 if it was the real Sindel trying to get out or something. I just hope they don’t mess her up in M1K
@gamerjproducts8201
@gamerjproducts8201 11 ай бұрын
she has the same banshee in mk3 im pretty surre thats just a part of her
@tonythunder6048
@tonythunder6048 11 ай бұрын
@@gamerjproducts8201 dang, thought I was big brained for a moment
@campbellroehrich7146
@campbellroehrich7146 11 ай бұрын
I really hope they fix her for Mortal 1 Kombat. I have hopes but then again I don't want to give NetherRealm Studios the benefit of the doubt.
@claystedman6923
@claystedman6923 11 ай бұрын
I'm cautiously optimistic that they will make her good again. Mainly because of the amount of backlash that the retcon had with fans. Even people who like Aftermath overall (like myself) unanimously agree that the retcon is terrible. Also it wouldn't make sense for Liu Kang to keep her evil in his new era but then again lack of sense is what made this mistake in the first place, so you never know.
@mrb4783
@mrb4783 11 ай бұрын
I thought we were all over this debate but I guess with the new game coming around it was bound to be talked about again. Oh well.
@kujo4388
@kujo4388 11 ай бұрын
It’s so funny when nrs fans try to dismiss any criticism the game gets, but then I watch a 4th snake video and genuinely can’t see any logical defense for this game!
@destroyerofworlds9138
@destroyerofworlds9138 11 ай бұрын
Nothing but truth spoken here. Sindel has ALWAYS had more agency. Twindel on the other hand....just isn't interesting at all imo.
@thatoneguy1232
@thatoneguy1232 11 ай бұрын
Facts. People forget that by time Armageddon came around, Sindel was depicted as Shao Kahn’s nemesis! Not Raiden, Liu Kang, Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, or even Onaga. It was Sindel! But these people are claiming she had no agency 😂
@destroyerofworlds9138
@destroyerofworlds9138 11 ай бұрын
​@@thatoneguy1232That's true. These people didn't play Deception or Armageddon and it shows. Otherwise they'd know Sindel had great development in that era.
@jackbaccarat4084
@jackbaccarat4084 11 ай бұрын
One big thing I've noticed in mk, both within the original and new games is the lack of defender gods of each realm. Am I to understand that only edenia and earth realm are the only realms with gods? In an effort to remedy the lack of divine guardians as well as helping give some of the lesser characters something to do here's my pitch for a more flushed out pantheon in the mkverse. Bare in mind this is my personal opinion for a pantheon and it is free to edit or critique, even you snake. Every realm would have at least two deities, one that acts as an aggressor and the other a more passive defender, giving a well balanced yin yang to the realms. Grant it there can be more but using raiden and fujin as the base model. Earth realm: 1. Raiden God of Thunder 2. Fujin God of Wind 3. I'm not counting the Fire or Water gods as we don't have names for them, plus liu kang becomes a god of fire so having two of them seems redundant. Zarterra: 1. Tiamat the Patriarch God 2. Sytholin the Matriach God Outworld: revamping Kahn as a god title much like how lord is used by earth realm 1. Shao Kahn God of War and Conquest (referencing annihilation and Advisor role to Onaga) 2. Kotal or Ko'atal Kahn Outworld/Oshtek God of War and Peace 3. Grum Six Arm Shokan God of Blood and Thunder (for the Malibu comics fans) 4. Rokuro Two Arm Shokan God of Champions Edenia 1. Argus, Sky Father 2. Delia, Flame Mother 3. Daegon and Taven, Brothers of Prophecy 4. Rain, Son of Argus / Son of Storms 5. Qali the Lady Protector (the simmering lady and a reference to conquest fans) 6. Asgaarth the Male Protector (defenders of the Realms fan reference) Netherrealm, lacking any true Gods apart from Lucifer and Shinnok, all Netherrealm gods are archdemons. 1. Lucifer: Master of the Neatherrealm 2. Ashrah: Mistress of Penance and divine punishment 3. Baphomet: Master of Hellfire (deadly alliance reference, Baphomet is the patron lord of specters.) 4. Kochal: Master of Judgment (the three-headed demon that judges the souls that enter the Netherrealm.) 5. Siann, Mika, and Sora: the Mistresses of Suffering, Saidism, and forbidden torture. (Conquest reference, chief torturers of the nether realm, rulers over the oni. Not to be confused with sareena, kia or jataaka) 6. Kharon: Master of Souls (the Ferrier of lost souls) 7. Cilene: Mistress of Wraiths (Conquest reference, where Baphomet lords over vengeance, Cilene lords over retribution, often times the two are at odds with the other. 8. The Herald (deadly alliance reference, the Herald is the silent watcher older than the Netherrealm itself. Some say it is a long lost titan, others say it is the true lord of the Netherrealm.) Chaos Realm: admittedly we do not have much in terms of an expanded chaos realm roaster. Supposedly if and when we do the gods would be addressed in a clergy fashion. 1. Havik: Cleric of Chaos Order Realm: once more we don't have much to go off of, but should we get more development gods of the Order realm will hold justice positions. 1. Hotaru, Minister of Justice Vaeternus: We don't have much so by default Nitara. As for titles I'm open to ideas. Dream Realm: this was a throw-away realm made by NRS, but let's count it as part of the pile. This being a reasonably obscure realm we'll say that it is one of the conquered or merged realms with Earth realm, making Earth realm less of a goodie-good realm. The dream realm would have emissaries to represent them so for the sake of giving him something to do, Nightwolf. Nightmare Realm: (from the Battlewave comic.) Apart from Henge being the only member of this realm in the comics, let's say Kabal hailed from this realm, if anything it would make for a small Freddy Krueger reference. IIkan Realm: (from defenders of the realm) yet another realm that had been conquered and merged, this time by Edinea. This will serve as the original realm of Tremor. Hinpar and Xaa (more defenders of the realm) have more names to through under the conquered list, this time nether realm. Rellium Ohcanep: (for reference sake, Jesus Boon no loyalty to your friends.) Elder Gods: Just to put names to faces 1. Cetrion Elder God of Nature 2. Shinnok Elder God of Death 3. Belokk Elder God of War 5. Krome Elder God of Elements 6. Zebron Elder God of Creation 7. Kitsune Elder God of Magic 8. Kronika never happened, I'm fine with Geras as an elder god of time, or the hour glass being this anomaly that exsits as a fixed point. but neither of these should be wasted because they are tied to one massive fuck up of a character with a captical K.
@saidi7975
@saidi7975 11 ай бұрын
Dude, we may disagree on various topics on MK lore... THIS ain't one of them. Creepy looking yet benevolent Sindel is indeed vastly superior.
@thenewmissinglink8501
@thenewmissinglink8501 11 ай бұрын
I love how natural you make it sound when you say Mortal 1 Kombat. Ima start calling it that.
@The4thSnake
@The4thSnake 11 ай бұрын
It flows so well.
@Predator20357
@Predator20357 11 ай бұрын
Edenian’s seem to have a problem with traitors for their realms, like it won’t surprise me that if they let the MK9-11 timeline go longer, it would’ve turned out that all the Edenian people wanted Shao Kahn and were all secretly evil and wanted to slaughter Kitana’s Dad for being too kind.
@jackdaone6469
@jackdaone6469 11 ай бұрын
Literally the only good Edenians were Jerik, Kitana, Jade, and maybe Tanya. What a twist!
@Predator20357
@Predator20357 11 ай бұрын
@@jackdaone6469 Edenia will always be the realm of “Taking massive L’s because the writers refuse to give them a moment of happiness”
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
@@jackdaone6469 jade was also a traitor in mk annihilation. The only proper “good-aligned” characters that have not gotten the treatment is taven and kitana (in terms of who is playable)
@naos8116
@naos8116 11 ай бұрын
​@@Predator20357 The Sub-Zero brothers and Edenia have something in common, I see.
@Predator20357
@Predator20357 11 ай бұрын
@@naos8116 Can’t wait to see Bi-Han to get killed and Edenia taking another L, hopefully this statement ages like milk in the sun.
@Kira22558
@Kira22558 11 ай бұрын
Original sindel >>>>>>>>
@brunowillich1837
@brunowillich1837 11 ай бұрын
You NEED to keep talking about this until the writers get it.
@ritaparks8213
@ritaparks8213 11 ай бұрын
Fortunately it seems they finally got it considering Onslaught and Mk 2 won't be using the retcon nonsense. They still need to undo what happened in 11 as well by either confirming she was still brainwashed during Aftermath, or just drop Aftermath all together (which honestly seems possible since Shang Tsung is back despite Liu saying he was erasing Shang Tsung and no Great Kung Lao to be seen at all).
@ivanwalker2269
@ivanwalker2269 11 ай бұрын
To paraphrase Michael Rosen: Noice.
@darknesslight3100
@darknesslight3100 11 ай бұрын
Good ol Snake at it again. Shuttin up idiots who don't ever know what the hell they're talking about. Keep fighting the good fight, bruh 😎👍
@Garagelab164
@Garagelab164 11 ай бұрын
Glad to hear Onslaught may have fixed Sindel if MK1 isn’t than I’m making a meme about it to mock it
@spiritofarkham1235
@spiritofarkham1235 11 ай бұрын
Generic evil queens are boring but can be done well if that's how they always were. Someone like Carmilla in Castlevania netflix series. the whole twindel situation just reduces her to a common traitor who has no real motivation. At least Shao Kahn has a somewhat consistant desire for power.
@thomasraines1396
@thomasraines1396 11 ай бұрын
At least Carmilla is overly ambitious and her story ends with everyone abandoning her.
@spiritofarkham1235
@spiritofarkham1235 11 ай бұрын
@@thomasraines1396 Yeah and twindel dosen't even her cumuppence at the end like Carmilla does.
@thomasraines1396
@thomasraines1396 11 ай бұрын
@@spiritofarkham1235well she dies but it’s in the stupidest way possible so it’s not even satisfying.
@thunderstudent
@thunderstudent 11 ай бұрын
Hopefully Liu Kang fixes Sindel in his new timeline undoing what Kronika in universe probably did and what NRS did outside it.
@alex_-yz9to
@alex_-yz9to 11 ай бұрын
considering shes the mom of the girl he likes... keeping her evil would be the stupidest plan on earthrelam and any other relam known to hisyory
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
@@alex_-yz9to He kept her clone, you know, the one she's flat out rejected in every timeline and doesn't want. Even upgraded her to full sister now. Guess that makes him more of a troll than a simp?!
@StudentOfKasumi
@StudentOfKasumi 11 ай бұрын
3:28. Agreed i still love it when you talk about this stuff though, it’s going to be greatly missed. 👏🏽🔥
@leonlegend
@leonlegend 11 ай бұрын
This retcon doesn't even make sense within the story of MK11. Shao Kahn tells Kitana that the only reason he kept her alive was to appease Sindel. If Sindel always hated Kitana, why is Kitana here at all?
@user-ye6fp7kl1o
@user-ye6fp7kl1o 11 ай бұрын
Twindel probably didn't always hate Kitana. The hate likely came from knowing her daughter betrayed Shao Kahn (Not defending the retcon. It sucks and is probably the worst thing NRS has ever wrote. Just saying I don't think she always hated Kitana)
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
Here’s a better question, why tf is kitana even a good guy in the first place? You would think with how much she cares about making kitana evil, she would have filled in ideologies about Jerrod being a terrible dad and have kitana commit villainous acts (before sindel’s death) to the point where kitana is barely irredeemable and she literally has no excuse bcoz every single edenian that was in shao’s forces was literally evil, even jade was evil and was following shao’s orders to the T. It essentially makes mileena’s existence given how stupid mk11 sindel is in capitalising opportunities to have her way of evil and makes sindel incompetent who the writers bless with plot armor and inconveniences in order to make her look competent
@leonlegend
@leonlegend 11 ай бұрын
@@nabilahmed579 that's an easy answer, Kitana was betrayed by the main villain. It's lazy writing 101 to have a villain turn hero because they were stabbed in the back by another villain. You do have a point, though. If Sindel was evil all along, there would be no need for mind controlling or memory erasing Kitana in the 1st place. Yet another reason this retcon doesn't work.
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
@@leonlegend exactly and mfs act like children or teens can’t be evil and if they were evil, then people would say “oh it would be unrealistic” (which is proven false as there were some articles about 13 years olds killing their siblings for clout on TikTok, which is terrible but not my point). Another issue with the first point that I mentioned is that this retcon basically would make mileena’s existence literally pointless (mk9 already messed it up by having her being created in mk2 instead of thousands years ago after the edenian invasion). If sindel mk11 and shao Kahn have enough time to basically fill in ideologies of Jerrod being terrible and kitana acc believes with no sense of morality, there would literally be no reason to make mileena. Important plot points are now being fucked with bcoz of this stupid retcon and it just goes on and on with the issues. Edit: didn’t know I repeated the mileena point again. My bad
@spiderverse616
@spiderverse616 11 ай бұрын
Off topic if you ever wanted to included Geras in MK Khronicles you could make him a creation of shang tsung but just being able to control sand and not time.
@saloz9483
@saloz9483 11 ай бұрын
I really feel like the little people who like the retcon is because ether they know nothing of the character or its cause they showed more of her animated and talking in the NRS era or both. The funny thing is with just some pictures and text boxes she has more of a character compared to the NRS version who is really just muwhaha evil. Let's not forget brain dead stupid as well since she didint see shangs betrayal coming when it's a known fact by everyone in the mk world he does this a lot. Yet some people still try to defend this version.
@takedatakahashi9812
@takedatakahashi9812 11 ай бұрын
I hope they fix her in MK1
@ritaparks8213
@ritaparks8213 11 ай бұрын
They already have with Sindel's real story being in Mk 2 and onslaught, so they likely will. They definitely need to go back undo what happened to her in 11 too so those plot holes created in the last timeline can be fixed by either confirming she was still brainwashed or just undo Aftermath completely (with how Shang Tsung is back despite what happened and no Great Kung Lao, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case, and I would prefer it considering all of Aftermath's other problems).
@takedatakahashi9812
@takedatakahashi9812 11 ай бұрын
@@ritaparks8213 i hope ur right
@michaelfinklea9295
@michaelfinklea9295 11 ай бұрын
I miss the motherly Sindel and im angry that twindel is in aftermath. Like i love playing Sindel but i hate the story and how Netherrealm changed her into twindel. Like with her orginal story, she had more depth to her character, but now shes a generic evil lady with no proper motives whatsoever.
@thomasraines1396
@thomasraines1396 11 ай бұрын
She’s not even consistent in her being generic either: she somehow wants something to do with Kahn after he was not only beaten by Kitana, blinded and left in a cell to rot when she finds him he’s getting beaten up by Tarkatans, who are the series’s canon fodder red shirts.
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
@@thomasraines1396onestly, the only explanation you could come up with why she is so fucking inconsistent with her character with her motives and more so, how she is portrayed to be a smart-ass but somehow stupid when she loved shao Kahn for his power and got bodied by QC, is that she was probs born retarded which is why she doesn’t make any sense at all. But in all seriousness, her retcon goes way back to the point where literally no explanation, in the same timeline, makes any sense at all not to mention how characters are all of a sudden giving a shit about her when that was never the case (looking at shao and Sheeva). They never bothered to even utilise the time aspect of the story to make her make sense so there really is no point of including her unless they genuinely on purpose wanted to fuck up the story for shits and giggles since most of the casual mk fans won’t put a single ounce of thought into it
@ritaparks8213
@ritaparks8213 11 ай бұрын
Agreed. Fortunately it seems the real Sindel is back considering what Onslaught and Mk 2 is doing by going with the real Sindel, and thankfully it seems Aftermath could be gone as well considering how it doesn't seem to follow it with Shang Tsung being back despite Liu erasing him forever (another big problem of the many Aftermath had a long with Liu sacrificing his friends and Shao Kahn's stupidity) and Great Kung Lao isn't in at all it seems.
@applesauce4955
@applesauce4955 11 ай бұрын
Tired of the argument that if she looks evil, then she must be evil. That's why I'm concerned for Nitara if they bring her back in MK1, that she'll end up a villain jobber like in the recent Mortal Kombat movie.
@naos8116
@naos8116 11 ай бұрын
It's a weird argument when you consider Kabal has been on the good side (I would definitely think he's evil just based on how he looks in MK3), as well as two literal Netherrealm demons, along with the fiery skull guy, Scorpion, rarely being outright evil.
@applesauce4955
@applesauce4955 11 ай бұрын
@@naos8116 if I remember correctly, did they make Kabal evil in MK11 as well?
@callmedylan6122
@callmedylan6122 11 ай бұрын
What do you think the actual chances are they fix her? I mean the new timeline seems cool and all but I get a strong “dumbing down” or simplifying of characters and factions. I mean it’s likely the Shirai Ryu aren’t even a thing anymore. I’m afraid they’ll just go with the villain version since at a glance that’s what most people see her as. And lord knows netherealm can’t spare more that a glance when it comes to character adaptations
@Ergeniz
@Ergeniz 11 ай бұрын
They won't, because they don't see her as 'broken'. Even if they did, there's a egotism involved with these sorts of things and to change things implies they were wrong which they will never admit to.
@The4thSnake
@The4thSnake 11 ай бұрын
I'd say it depends on who made the decision and how much they care about fan feedback. The ideal would be that Kittlesen came up with it, and since he's left, Ed Boon and Cianciolo are willing to listen to the fans. No way to know for sure.
@BlueSunStudios1
@BlueSunStudios1 10 ай бұрын
@@The4thSnake Given that this stuff still made it in in the first place, I believe Boon greenlights whatever and tosses away writers when their writing fails spectacularly to absolve himself of any hand he had in it materializing. If anything, he may have a really strong influence and/or mandate with what can and cannot be done with certain characters and story elements regardless of who is doing the writing for the games assuming that he is the final authority on the Mortal Kombat games and has the final say on what happens. I still won't forget how shit immediately went downhill for the games after Tobias left around MK4 I believe, not to say that the writing was immediately atrocious after Tobias left as good and bad things alike happened, just that the setting got considerably and progressively bleak until recently with Fire God Liu Kang which says something. Maybe I'm not analyzing this as good as I should be, but that is my take on this so far: Boon is the problem greenlighting badly executed ideas and keeps himself out of the spotlight for bad decisions being made like Zuckerberg with Meta and Facebook or like Musk with Twitter/X.
@McKamidzu
@McKamidzu 11 ай бұрын
One moment in the Aftermath that bothers me is when she arrives at Kronika's keep. Why didn't she join Shang Tsung, given her display of power-hungry bitch? Yet another inconsistency.
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
Honestly, a great question. Shao only beat the revenant version of kitana, who is literally a jobber and is not really staple to show how strong a character is. She somehow witnessed that shokan were beating up shao Kahn and got his ass kicked (somehow due to shitty writing) by her own daughter. You would think sindel would have that chapter to her own given how she literally judges people by power and the moment she gets that judgement, she fucks people over, yet when it comes to shao Kahn, she is all lovey dovey and all that bs? She’s inconsistent even if you don’t have the previous lore as canon
@chessterstone
@chessterstone 11 ай бұрын
well, obviously people like her the same way they like the modern mk games, it’s because Twindel has a lot of spectacle factored in A LOT of spectacle if you know what I mean
@ZyroShadowPony
@ZyroShadowPony 11 ай бұрын
With the recent games im starting to believe deception is a genetic trait of edenians
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
More modern mk fans want more of the edenian npcs to be traitors when we have never explored any aspect of their lore at all (e.g. king Jerrod, apparently to some fan theories is the massive threat liu never anticipated)
@ZyroShadowPony
@ZyroShadowPony 11 ай бұрын
@@nabilahmed579 thats a first. I never met other modern mk fans to want them to be more traitors
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
@@ZyroShadowPony their base justification is pretty much ‘new timeline’ and that’s it lmao, when it comes to traitors for edenia which is probs why that is the case
@ZyroShadowPony
@ZyroShadowPony 11 ай бұрын
@@nabilahmed579 i mean i guess but honestly if they want edenians to be traitors then NRS have to make them secret villians. Being the ones to actually conquer instead of outworld or idk
@yannym4605
@yannym4605 11 ай бұрын
This is like asking whether a fully defined character with their own goals and ambitions has more agency than a character whose only use in the storyline has been as a Plot Device or McGuffin.
@The_Metalix404
@The_Metalix404 10 ай бұрын
Me when I'm in a inconsistent competition and the writers for twindel appear: 😮
@stormsand9
@stormsand9 11 ай бұрын
2:19 HA! the reccomended video on the top right "MKX all fatalities on Sindel" thats hilarious
@pugtie4695
@pugtie4695 11 ай бұрын
3:15 finally someone mentioned it.
@Kraken-rex9743
@Kraken-rex9743 11 ай бұрын
This video came out around 4 am for me
@markmyers6756
@markmyers6756 11 ай бұрын
Come on guys sindel doesn't have to be evil to step on your balls!
@MusicoftheDamned
@MusicoftheDamned 11 ай бұрын
It's hilarious that Twindel, in addition to being by far the worse character compared to Sindel, spends so much more time being mind-controlled too. Twindel is so unoriginal that she apparently tried to steal Smoke's gimmick too.
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
If you want even more signs of lame attempts of originality, the idea of a power couple with a completely evil person and a brainwashed victim (who could be interpreted as someone who loved her man) was already done with li Mei and onaga. Twindel and shao Kahn is literally a pathetic copy of that that doesn’t work well with either character (even if we are ignoring all the previous lore for sindel from mk3-mkx)
@MusicoftheDamned
@MusicoftheDamned 11 ай бұрын
@@nabilahmed579 [Insert attempts to picture Li Mei and Onaga romantically together here.] ...Sadly still more legitimately romantic than Twindel and NRS Shao or NRS Jade and Kotal.
@zalybrainlessgenius503
@zalybrainlessgenius503 11 ай бұрын
Once I heard the only reason why they made Sindel an evil unloving mother and drunk on "privelege" as she likes to call it, is because she's white and Kitana is asian in this game (Kitana's race kinda flip flops in the MK lore). It's so ridiculous, but knowing the NRS writers... yikes.
@honestred7600
@honestred7600 11 ай бұрын
Watch in the new timeline both Kitana's parents are going to be evil tyrants'
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
This is actually what fans are thinking now, which is basically taking a shit on edenia’s nature now lmao. The only deceivers would have been rain and Tanya but shit has gone off the rails
@BulletTooth504
@BulletTooth504 9 ай бұрын
Maybe, before the merger, Edenia was a place where you could trust no one because most of the population had no qualms about backstabbing each other.
@cui8789
@cui8789 11 ай бұрын
To play a bit of devil's advocate, I have seen some fans argue that Sindel got imprisoned in Deception. I like to think she'd have fought her way out if Onaga had anyone other than Kitana guarding her.
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
She totally would've fought her way out had it been someone else, as is states she couldn't bring herself to harm her daughter.... the one person whose love freed her from the evil corruption of a fallen Elder God. Though she only starts the story in prison, she does get out and then go on to do much more. Like an Elder Scrolls game.
@The4thSnake
@The4thSnake 11 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure she explicitly says in her bio that she can't bring herself to fight Kitana.
@naos8116
@naos8116 11 ай бұрын
​@@The4thSnakeIt says it in Jade's bio as well. "He used Princess Kitana to guard her, knowing the Queen would not attack her own daughter."
@ElephantMariotheRHDNhater3293
@ElephantMariotheRHDNhater3293 10 ай бұрын
I fully concur with Your opinions on Twindel; Snake. IDK why they had to do this to Sindel.
@tfgc9315
@tfgc9315 10 ай бұрын
To use your idea for the Twindel retcon, how about if Twindel is in love with Kahn (as is in the original game), but she does still love Kitana and even asks her to join their side. And it’s Kitana that makes her snap out of it and kill Kahn. She spends the remainder of the game fighting against Kronika and Shang Tsung. It’s not perfect but it’s an attempt to give the OG Sindel fans something
@triplexxxgaming7397
@triplexxxgaming7397 11 ай бұрын
Have a question 4thsnake I came up with this do you think megan Foxx could voice Nitara in Mortal 1 Kombat or can she do a live action Kitana and Mileena for the sequel to MK 2021 despite she is a celebrity which do you prefer
@deadset15-hrvavik17
@deadset15-hrvavik17 11 ай бұрын
What is with Edenians and betrying Edenia?
@ElHadjBrahim
@ElHadjBrahim 9 ай бұрын
You called it!
@darcrequiem
@darcrequiem 11 ай бұрын
I wish I could thumb up this video more than once.
@absoul112
@absoul112 11 ай бұрын
3:07 I would not use Edelgard in this context.
@The4thSnake
@The4thSnake 11 ай бұрын
I would.
@absoul112
@absoul112 11 ай бұрын
@@The4thSnake fair enough
@people2chronically-online
@people2chronically-online 8 ай бұрын
@@The4thSnakenah
@abdelali9279
@abdelali9279 8 ай бұрын
I will always say it, Sindel and Shao Khan in MK 11 Aftermath are so cartoony all that I can see are Rita Repulsa and Lord Zedd
@micah459
@micah459 11 ай бұрын
To be honest, the interactions really made Sindel look worse and I hate that NRS use the whole "the interactions aren't canon" to justify their bs writing.
@naos8116
@naos8116 11 ай бұрын
But also they introduce seemingly canonical details in intros. Like the Midway timeline with endings, they should at least acknowledge they pick and choose. And like those endings, the intros can still inform us on the characters, like how Kabal's MK3 ending tells us he's a former Black Dragon, and Noob's Deception ending reveals he's Bi Han, despite neither ending being canon. And intro dialogue introducing canonical details would help because we could be informed on storylines in a way that doesn't involve fights.
@Payload82
@Payload82 11 ай бұрын
I know this probably sounds cheesy but what if twindle was Sindel twin or her personal handmaiden/Bodyguard during Shao Khan invasion of Edenian sindel offers to get help from the other realms starting with Earthrelam while on earthrelam twindle kills Sindel and takes her places as Queen Sindel tell the king that Outworld forces lead by Quan Chi ambushed them and the Handmaiden was killed. Queen Sindel kills the king and join forces with Shao khan.
@ninjasolarteam
@ninjasolarteam 11 ай бұрын
if ed boon saw this and he would be like: "da fuh is this guy's problem. he needs to chill"
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
I genuinely think Ed Boon doesn't know much, or even care about the MK lore / story. Makes me wonder who at Midway in the 3D era (after Tobias left) did actually care, and wrote the lore then. Because that person needs to get rehired to fix this NRS shit.
@The4thSnake
@The4thSnake 11 ай бұрын
John Vogel. He handled the narrative from DA-onwards. He either wrote MK9 and then oversaw MKX before leaving, or he oversaw MK9 before leaving.
@Adamatronamus
@Adamatronamus 11 ай бұрын
Dont worry. The new timeline will make things a lot worse.
@englisheggwhites_2336
@englisheggwhites_2336 9 ай бұрын
While I will die on the hill that Twindel's character design (and ONLY the design) is perfect, fuckin hell does the retcon suck ass.
@fangworl5170
@fangworl5170 11 ай бұрын
Oh boy he's making another Sindel video I wonder what based and true takes he'll have this time
@KoylTrane
@KoylTrane 11 ай бұрын
Ayo Three Houses/Hopes teaser?
@EndoScorpion
@EndoScorpion 11 ай бұрын
Depending on your definition of mind control, changes how one can interpret the original timeline. In fiction like this I would class it as one person having psychic powers over another persons mind. Personally I'm not convinced Sindel was under mind control (in the sense of some magical hypnosis), in the original timeline: Shao Kahn gave her soul to Shinnok so he could corrupt it and "taint it with evil". I think it was a more conventional torture, gaslighting, and exposure therapy. Being locked in Hell with a fallen Elder God for a while isn't going to be pretty. I'd say that's what made her more inclined to go along with Shao Kahn's MK3 invasion, as opposed to Shao Kahn or Quan Chi being the one to directly control her mind. Also, in MK3 it says Sindel was reborn on Earth, and in MK Mythologies it stated Sindel was reincarnated on Earth. Does that make Sindel a human Earthrealmer in the original timeline? Sure, she originated from Edenia, but was reborn in Earthrealm. Like how Scorpion was a native Earthrealm human, reborn in the Netherealm as a spectre. Either way, it was reconnecting with Kitana that gave her "visions of her true past" (past life), which I find touching that their bond was so powerful it transcends a lifetime and is even stronger than the corruption of an evil Elder God. But no, according to some people; being Shao Kahn's waifu, Quan chi's puppet, and betraying her daughter; somehow makes her way better and a total YasQueen GirlBoss. The mental gymnastics some people have to go through to justify bad writing is astonishing.
@Greg501-
@Greg501- 11 ай бұрын
Sindel's "real lore" that hopefully only matters for a DLC story in 1 game
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
Take her out of aftermath, nothing changes like at all. It’s not like shao Kahn would need help to do what he did in aftermath when he is clearly capable of doing it by himself. All the other characters were literally nerfed in intelligence and feats just to make sindel look good and it’s clear by this game’s writing. They forgot about what fujin did back in the past as well as an intro dialogue that literally make sindel useless considering cetrion had to use frost to jump him
@Greg501-
@Greg501- 11 ай бұрын
@@nabilahmed579 Yes, the same Shao Khan that lost to Kitana could do all of Sindel's fights too
@Angel_Veloz
@Angel_Veloz 9 ай бұрын
In my headcanon the spell that Quan Chi used to control Sindel cannot be broken by simply reviving her and Shang Tsung knew it so he lied to Fujin and Nightwolf because obviously he didn't want the good version of Sindel to interfere with his plans
@anthonys5542
@anthonys5542 11 ай бұрын
I think the real Miskonception here is that we want you to stop posting videos about Twindel. I could watch your Sindel content all day. Please, carry on 😄
@MattSayYay
@MattSayYay 11 ай бұрын
3:09 - Oh, hello Edelgard, who is a better white haired waifu that’s Twindel. Hello Shez, who is a better purple themed waifu than Twindel.
@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr
@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr 11 ай бұрын
Shez is a mercenary that swears no alliance to anyone, and he/she only goes for the highest bidder that’s paying him/her, so if any Mortal Kombat character is like Shez it’d be Erron Black, or whatever female equivalent of Erron Black would be, but Shez isn’t anything at all like Twindel from WB Studios Mortal Kombat.
@MattSayYay
@MattSayYay 11 ай бұрын
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr hey, I’m just trying to force a connection, I only mentioned the purple theme, and even that’s a bit debatable
@megabear8905
@megabear8905 11 ай бұрын
I'll say again. Old Sindel fans are in love with idea of Sindel instead of Sindel. I loved Sindel since before the new timeline but even I gotta admit she's basically done fuck-and-all with time she was given. The only example we have of her personality is a two-second conversation with Shujinko.
@SuperSky9
@SuperSky9 11 ай бұрын
No, only 2D Era fans love twindel because she is 2D Era Sindel. In 3D Era, since MK4, Sindel had a lot of personality and character and was the Raiden equivalent to Edenia. She herself defeated the Dragon King with Jade and even got extra screen of ending to show for it. But in NRS games, there is no Edenia for her to do anything.
@nabilahmed579
@nabilahmed579 11 ай бұрын
But then again, with how she was written in aftermath and how much of a forced plot convenience, taking her away would literally not amount to anything when you realise shao Kahn, fujin, nightwolf and Shang could basically do all the activities they did in aftermath without much assistance at all. Sindel’s just there to make other characters dumb as hell, nerfed and mess up the entire story to the point where it makes no sense now
@sammielopez620
@sammielopez620 10 ай бұрын
Probably an unpopular opinion of sorts: I loved the way twindel and Shao Kahn interacted, but I still hate what they did to Sindel. If anything, they should’ve introduced a completely new character that was twindel, like a secret boss fight like they did in the original games. Or like when NRS did to introduce the new characters with the mkx comics. Speaking of which, I sort of designed twindel into a new character, Jeezebel. She was part of the same Royal house that Sindel was born into, but dabbled into the dark arts. She sought to take the throne, but Sindel managed to defeat her and imprisoned her. Now Jeezebel seeks to destroy Sindel, not only physically but also her legacy and most of all , her only family left.
@TheOriginalSupreme
@TheOriginalSupreme 11 ай бұрын
MK really has a chance to rectify the BS they did with Sindel in MK11. It was giving Annihilation Sindel during the scene when Jade's betrayal was revealed.
@crislunaverellen6563
@crislunaverellen6563 11 ай бұрын
I miss the Midway era. Hopefully MK1 can redo all of that again, since we're now in a reborn era
@kaijufan2000
@kaijufan2000 11 ай бұрын
PREACH! PREACH!
@ChrisX_212
@ChrisX_212 9 ай бұрын
I'm starting to think that MK11 is actually a 'phase' in NRS about trying to appease the crowd of the age. Which is why we got shoehorned with a lot of wokeshit ladder endings, political references (Shao Kahn's "MOGA"), woke-chaste outfits, and it only doubles down in the Aftermath DLC. Twindel, I believe, is just one of the products of that: They wanted to appeal to the people who believes in 'white privilege bad' and ''strong' female villain who doesn't take crap from anybody' archetypes, which is why we got Twindel. And, at the same time, Sheeva's dialogues make her look like she's designed to pander to those misogynistic "WOMEN STRONK, MEN WEAK!" feminist crowd. Those were gaining tractions in social media/Twitter back in those days. (MK11 was apparently banned in Indonesia due to its over-the-top violence. But after analyzing, as an Indonesian, I ended up very glad that it didn't come to my country due to its hidden wokeshit characterization and agenda) Let's hope that NRS is out of that 'appease the SJW' phase in MK1. Otherwise, dark clouds are looming over the new timeline that not even Fire God Liu Kang can prevent.
@qseanx
@qseanx 11 ай бұрын
Sindel's MK3 ending redeems her, but which portion is actually retcon because we know she isn't the one who defeats Kahn. She comes to know of her past from Kitana, who was a child when she was killed. How does Kitana know of Sindel's true past when she herself spent much of her life under Kahn's control. The point is from the transition from Midway to Netherrealm era, Sindel's origins and backstory were never fully fleshed out.
@allen100k
@allen100k 11 ай бұрын
That ending disclaimer though lol
@T-REX-KNIGHT
@T-REX-KNIGHT 11 ай бұрын
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