I notice that very few cyclists (these days) turn their own wrench; they take *everything* to the shop. The cyclists that this really squeezes are those that want a self-serviceable and reliable bike: commuters, recreational tourers, etc. In the US, many of the people that can afford bikes >$5-6000 aren't that sensitive to the total cost of ownership; they don't service their own bikes. The question becomes: Which group is really moving the market?

@@DEAR7340 ... Hardcore cyclists that wrench on their own bikes will typically buy a frame only and then build the bike up to there own specifications. By doing so they avoid many of the big bike brand trappings such unique seat post standards, crank standards, bottom bracket standards, and combined stem handle bar standards.

@@coldforgedcowboy - Most hardcore cyclists will take a relatively modern steel frame (think 98-03 Columbus or reynolds tubing) with a threadless stem, carbon fork and standard seat post diameter and build their dream bike to the specs, groupset, colour and features they want. The extra 2-5lbs of weight will be offset by a silky smooth ride, and downhill confidence to push it. If your a racer and every gram counts, you buy the latest and greatest and someone else fixes it - cost is no problem.

@@camerond8176 ... No offence but steel frames went out fashion shortly after wooden rims. If your going to run a metallic frame, it should be titanium or aluminum.

@@camerond8176 The only way someone builds a dream bike out of steel is if they never rode a good carbon frame. Or really any carbon frame.

For sure - I try to purchase a spare hanger with every bike. Did so with my 2020 Marin gravel bike, and when I went to use the spare it was machined out of tolerance, and the two pieces didn't mate. Grrr

Great to see some diversity!

Totally agree

@@HkFinn83 "Diversity?"...Oh that's right, we can't say "girl", "woman", "cutey" or anything related to gender anymore in this ultra-sensitive, feelings-easily-hurt, mega-politically correct world we live in today.

@@ruffxm i agree, I’d just like to see some racial diversity as well. What is this a clan rally?!

@@ruffxm Nothing stopping you from saying whatever you want. Getting slapped for being an idiot is a risk, though.

Same for me!

i had a cinelli steel frame with campy for 30 years.

@@secretagent86 That sounds like a dream bike to me.

Same. Cervélo S5 stole my brain but the serious faults built into it, the sheer ripoff price and the fact it wouldnt be in any way cost effective or long lasting Such a shame Perhaps their bikes only need to get through one or two high paying races. Completely useless concept to 99.99999% of cyclists

Example of a true cyclist. Stubborn as hell!! Once the mind is made up, it’s made of steel.

My introspection: Cheapo! Gimme a cheap bike and let me destroy it!!

that's wot i wz thinkin', who is this vid aimed at? olympic speed cyclists or wot lol none of it impacts me

Saw a video of a 17y/o on a $500 mountain bike with bald tires smoke a couple on $5000+ bikes on a trail. Most of us will never have the ability to take advantage of the miniscule improvements that the $4500 brings.

Internal cables don't really make one faster. Smoke and mirrors

I raced on a 1980, $1,200 Colnago Columbus steel frame, Campagnolo components, downtube shifters and toe straps. I wish I still had that bike.

Unfortunately your comment about price being an entry barrier to (competitive) sport is not limited to cycling. Look at the price of a tennis raquet or a pair of football boots.

They aren't competing. Number of entries to all amateur races and all junior levels have been declining every year in the Netherlands ( at least for the last 20 years ).

Road bikes have been good for at least 25 years now. I'm not seeing any new tech since brifters and compact cranks that would make my ride any better. Some carbon frames were great as early as '94 or so. I've had a few Looks, a few Colnagos, a few Bianchis, all built anywhere from 2000 ish to 2010-ish and though I currently ride a 2015 carbon Giant, it's only minimally better than most of those older bikes. Weirdly, my all time favorite was an aluminum Colnago Dream with a 9sp Chorus group! (stolen, of course.. .)

@@martinbrodie8507 1200 in 1980 is ~4000 usd today. That's an Ultegra Level supersix in todays money.

As a (MTB) cyclist and motrocycle rider, I was looking for that comment, thank you Tim. I totally agree with you. £10k bikes *are not* comparable with £1M pro Moto GP ! I really think a large production £10k bicycle is really just a large production £20k motorcycle. Example : for £23k you can have either a Ducati Panigale v4 or a Aprilia RSV4, and don't tell me this is not high end sport bike. How is it possible that 2 Trek Emond SLR 9 cost the *same* as 1 Ducati Panigale ? Come on guys, really, tell me ! What she did in the video is like comparing a Porsche 911 with a F1 car, this is just so *stupid* ! And it makes me mad people can't process that.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy $15k bicycles though, unless you are a pro rider. And if you are a pro rider, you better be sponsored. My bicycle is less than $2k, and i enjoy it very much.

@@sepg5084 Since when a $2k bike can be used as an example for cheap bikes? In 2015 I bought on Ebay a used Cervelo R3 2012 frame (M the golden size, and YES it's a Tour de France level of frame ridden by team Garmin Sharp) for 900 USD and Sram Red groupset for 500 USD. I won the bids for a set of new old stock Zipp 404 tubular wheelset (2012) offering less than 1000 USD. Even adding up the miscs and labor (I actually assembled my bike, but OK let's count a couple hundred bucks of labor), with less than 3000 USD I got a 3-year-old fully-equipped world tour pro level bike. Now let's try to find a 2018 TdF bike on Ebay...

@@laod7192 My bike was $600 and I thought it was hellishly expensive...

Yep, what Tim said.

Yeah, that was a bit of a stretch.

You can buy a Honda CBR650 from a shop as easily as you can a high end priced bicycle, if you put them side by side you can see how one evolved from the other, you can appreciate that the 650 engine alone takes a lot of engineering and manufacturing yet the bicycle costs more??

@@frankspeakmore7104 Because it's a halo product, and sadly a part of the psychology behind selling that kind of product is attaching a high price tag, I won't deny there's an increased cost in manufacture, but it's certainly a matter of status. If you are not a professional and fall for this crap, it's your money, you do you, but given the chance, I'd definitely go for the motorcycle.

I'd add an off the shelf CBR600RR can be used in global Superstock 600 championships, comparing to MotoGP is a bit disingenuous as MotoGP bikes are not available for retail, unlike the compared top end bicycles.

Agreed. Put Pogacar on a $5000 bike, and he still finishes most races in the top 10. Put Marc Marquez on the pole on the best production liter-bike and he's dead last by the fourth corner. Just because these uber-expensive bikes are used by UCI pros means little. The space between a $15000 bike and a $4000 bike is miniscule compared to the difference between a MotoGP ride and a CBR600RR.

Maybe it has become the same as with exotic sports cars. They are good for doctors to show off on the weekend, but they're not very practical for everyday use.

See the Hambini channel for top brand roasting,h e calls out poor engineering from the bike industry so much so he is feared by many brands.

@@motombocolombo Not the same case. If we talk about road bike, low to hi end roadbike still practical to achieve maximum speed. The question is the price range between it.

@@motombocolombo This hurts my brain. Exotic sports cars are designed to go fast... Just like these bikes. If you want something for everyday use, buy a Prius and a Townie.

@@bengatewood Dude, you hurt my brain. Exotic sports cars are first and foremost designed to convey a certain image about their owners...as with these super bikes. Their owners might think that they can drive as fast as a formula one driver or ride as fast as a pro cyclist, but they can in fact not. It's just a show. If you actually wanna drive fast and skillful you become a race car driver. When you want to be able to ride as fast as a pro on your bicycle you train like a pro. Buying fancy shit on the other hand does nothing really beyond changing what shallow people might think of you when they see you on the road. It's all pointless bullshit! Most supercars and superbikes just stand around in the garage or hang on the wall 99,9% of the time anyways. In reality they are far from being used to drive or ride fast. It's about owning something that provokes admiration in others when they see you with it, in other words it's just for showing off.

...and also small compared to the quality of the rider (yeahh, I saw a lot of cyclists in really bad shape with super machines... if they could train properly instead of spending huge amount of money in bicycles...)

But then you have the 'aesthetic incongruity' of a rider fully aero road kitted clothing wise, riding an 'ancient tech', decidedly UN-aero, skinny round tube, 20+ year old bike, like I currently must. ;) LOL

@@chololennon They should upgrade the bicycle's engine!

We get what we want, faster, lighter, aero. You can buy dirt cheap Al or steel bikes if you want to, but you don’t.

@@kiwibiker9754 it is but not if you're racing

Glad you enjoyed it!

Missing the most important element : room for a guys balls on the seat

@@guysumpthin2974 suck it up and suck them in...whiner. lol

Seems to be the most maddening example of Fun / cash .. I could NEVER afford to concern myself with this crap. I spent £2,000 plus more from 2002 - 2005 probably about 4k total.. on a mid range MTB and NOW? I ride the Raleigh Max I bought back at the turn of the Millenium for £70.. sadly.. I can't get spares for it either! Is someone going to start making retro parts? There are some MINT 1990's bikes rotting away!

@@JETJOOBOY when i sadly but wisely parted with my 1970 Cinelli it went to a bloke who specialized in bringing old classic bikes back to mint shape. That made my heart feel good about it. with Ebay, FB marketplace etc, it seems to be easier to source parts for the oldies now.

Is the price given for the motogp bike the team R&D budget divided by the number of bikes they make or what the bike would actually cost if it was put in production? Most people who buy bikes wouldn't go near MotoGP race bikes in the first place as they need a hell of a lot more servicing than the production version, which is already way too much bike for most riders to use, so there's almost no market for it. As I understand it the UCI force bike manufacturers to sell copies of the bikes the pro's are riding as part of the requirements for the bike to be raced, so they have very little choice with regard to at least claiming what they're selling is the same as the team riders use. This doesn't mean the bike a pro is riding hasn't been completely custom made from the ground up and given specific geometry to fit them and put through way more oversight during manufacturing and far more quality control tests afterwards than the mass produced version though. A lot of them likely don't come into contact with a single employee or assembly fixture or even get made in the same factory used for the mass produced version of the bike. By the same reasoning as the motoGP bike pricing, it's very likely that the actual cost of any of the top riders' bikes is a hell of a lot more than the cost of the version they sell to consumers, but neither the bike companies, the UCI or the paid shills in the bike journalism game want to point this out, because there's too much money to be made for all of them in keeping quiet, we've already seen how few journalists made any attempt to point out the level of corruption over drugs in cycling over the past few decades and what came of the few who did for exactly the same reason. Claiming that a machine with as many precision manufactured, highly toleranced moving parts as a motorbike is justifiably cheaper than a carbon fibre bicycle without suspension or an engine, manufactured with tolerances so bad that they can't consistently meet the published standards for the BB's they claim the frame is designed for is a shameful bit of ass kissing, but it'll keep the shiny new bikes rolling in so everyone gets paid. In reality most of the money paid in a 14k bike is going to the marketing scumbags, because there sure as hell is nothing in the mechanical parts you're buying to justify it.

It does get a little silly when a Yamaha R1 or BMW S1000RR might be cheaper than a top of the line Pinarello. That Yamaha or BMW is an ECU tune and a set of slicks away from being a competitive race bike in anything short of WSBK. We don't have a bicycle equivalent to MotoGP, the world tour racers and olympians have to run off the shelf bikes. It would like making MotoGP racers race on lightly prepped production bikes, not purpose built racebikes.

The best feeling in the world is passing and crushing these $300 kit wearing, newest bike tech riders on my 1999 Specialized Allez A1 w/ DA7900. Something to always be smiling about, these same riders drool on my bike everywhere I go!

I love that first sentence you used.

@@numarc1010 Not trying to be a smart alec or anything (seriously, no offense) but I just don't understand in cycling why so many folks feel this way. What does what anyone else riding or wearing have to do with your (or others in the community) superior physical fitness. Are we saying that the latest quality equipment should only be possessed by the elite? I don't understand why we think like this. I don't think Lewis Hamilton is at home saying folks shouldn't be driving a Vette, or better yet a Bugatti supercar because they could never drive it like him. When I see others with a nicer bike and top Rapha kit on I'm like " respect. good for you." What they eat doesn't make me %$#&. I just really want to understand what is BEHIND this level of thinking in the community. of busting the ass of some random dude on a hill you don't know with a $8000 Rello. He could have it cause he loves the feel of the ride not because he's out KOM hunting. We all ride for different reasons with different abilities. I'm better than some and worst than others. And EVERYONE gets dropped cycling. EVERYONE.

@@acl812 "Everyone." Well of course. Everyone gets exhausted. I think they stop noticing and caring about being passed when they're burnt.

@@acl812 No offense taken @Aaron Lloyd. I totally understand where you are coming from. I have a love for cycling that only other cyclist understand. I don't expect many I know to ever get it. It started at a very young age & continued when I was not cycling for a long time. I hear you & understand you want to know why folks out there feel this way against the super-bike riding / ultra expensive kit wearers. I personally do not judge people. I do however know first hand the snobbery in ANY sport when your gear isn't up to their snuff. I've been looked down upon at the LBS numerous times from cyclist I've never otherwise met. My own boss; a long time ago laughed at my bike when he decided to ride with me after work one day. He destroyed me and it was not just a "we are riding together and I will finish strong" it was "I'm going to destroy you from the second we set out". It wasn't fun, I didn't like the feeling and decided to do my own thing, ride for me and ride what I want... wearing what I want. I chase anyone down - its fun for me. Not all the time, but I do and I make it as friendly as possible if they want to keep up. It's all in jest for me, but for some they do take it quite personal & for that I truly don't get it. My original comment was geared toward those that take great offense. I mean seriously, I've had someone finally catch me at a light and cuss me out. For what because I passed him? I even said hello to him as I passed. Many don't even do that. I don't take offense when i get past. And yes, everyone does gets dropped. I hope this helps.

Ribble also has that as an option. Though they charge you a bit extra (which seems fair).

@@sebastianjost Ribble let's you customize the colour a lot more than Orbea (including stem and drop bar) so I'm happy to fork out the extra. Well saving up so I can fork out that extra lol

10k - you can get a car for that…. And you get somewhere quicker, dryer and less sweaty… are you lot mad!

@@PhilbyFavourites 1. Noone except pro racers needs a 10k bike. You pretty much stop getting extra functionality at about 2-5k. After that it's just less weight and more aerodynamics. Most of these features are not even noticeable to most beginner cyclists. So they get everything they could want for about 1k. 2. Bicycles have many advantages over cars. Some of them are: • You get more exercise (which is shown to have significant positive effects on your health) • You are more flexible in the routes you take (not all roads allow cars) • in many cities and on short distances a bicycle gets you to your destination faster • it's much more environmentally friendly • almost everything on modern bicycles is relatively easily serviceable by pretty much everyone. There are some things that need specialized tools, but those jobs are rare. And so on. Of course cars have advantages too. But you certainly don't need to spend that much money on a bike. And when you're not looking at the high end bike, they are also a lot cheaper than cars (both initially and during maintenance)

That's because people that want really specific paintjobs simply get their bikes painted.

Actually you are alone.

Existentialism in a KZfaq comment stream...... I love it.

We're all alone in some respects, but I agree with your opinion regarding these bike features. Cool surname by the way. ;)

Quite right. The bicycle industry is a marketing field day for manufacturers since people are stupid enough to pay $10K for a bicycle.

Anyone that thinks the pros are riding the same frames as those sold on the market are also extremely naive.

@@lukewalker1051 It would be interesting to know what brands who make both think (eg, KTM)

You're leaving out quite a bit in your analysis. 1. Motorcycle production is far more automated than bicycle production and thus is better suited to economies of scale. 2. The motorcycle market is roughly 10 times the size of the bicycle market. This again gives an advantage when it comes to economies of scale. 3. The bicycle market is not at all uniform. The expensive bikes that people carp about are only a small fraction of that market, and the reason for that is that only a small portion of the bicycle consumer base is willing to buy those expensive bikes. That means those expensive bikes will remain expensive or won't come down in price until people stop buying them. 4. Pricing of a product is not simply a function of how many parts are in that product, so comparing products based on the number of parts ignores all of the other factors. 5. If the pricing isn't sustainable, the pricing will change.

MotoGP entirely different kettle of fish, better comparison is World Supersport for the CBR 600 which is a road going version of a race bike and more capable than 99% of the people that ride them.

@King Of Crunk Also, DESPITE the time and extra co$t of the custom carbon layups, built to THEIR size, not an 'off the shelf' small, medium or large. ;)

And taken some of the worst tech from them.

@@okantichrist like what in your opinion

@@okantichrist What do you define as the worst tech? The way I see it mountain bikes are far superior to road bikes and the roadies have pretty much given up on innovating their own tech and stolen it from mountain bikes.

Disc brake tech on road bikes is an amazing thing. I love my rim brake frame bike (it's getting old), but I would never buy another one new, stupid old tech. I put that bike away when it rains because it just simply doesn't stop, but my gravel bike with disc brakes works perfect.

@@JoshuaTootell and i like the brake feel of hydraulic disc brakes too. I don't care if rim brakes are "faster" or "more aero" since i am not a professional cyclist trying to win a race, the only racing that i do is racing against my previous strava times.

Great story from one of the Armstrong profile books: Armstrong invited Miguel Indurain over to the U.S. at one point and Indurain was present when some of the Trek engineers were meeting with Armstrong. The engineers were gusing about all the aerodynamic savings in the Madone they were making for Armstrong. Indurain's response: "Don't forget the legs."

...and cardiovascular/pulmonary systems, and max VO2, and hematocrit levels, and etc. ;)

@@daryl4841 Yes! So true. 🤦‍♂️

Amazing. I see super high end used bikes for sale all the time. Why not go that route? I have my Dad's '73 Raleigh Super Course, btw, and, well, you're more of a man than me. (But I wouldn't part with that wobbly, flexy beautiful beast for anything).

My uncle just bought a brand new Specialized this summer. He didn't like it so he returned it, or sold it (can't remember) for a Cannondale. His first bike upgrade in about 15 years.

@@earling22 Hi earling22! I have definitely thought of that and investigated. Around my area, high end used bikes are commanding really high prices due to the supply-demand issues surrounding new bikes. Couple that with the fact that used bikes mean unknown levels of care by the previous owner plus used components, bearings, tires, brake pads (and disks if disk brakes) handlebar tape, chain, lubricants, etc. and...well...a new bike after 43 years seemed like a more attractive route. I settled on the Roubaix Comp partially because I have those connections to a Specialized LBS owner. That meant I was going to receive the "family discount." But, with no bikes there's no discount, no matter the connection. Anyway, right now I'm reassessing. It's always possible that a used bike in my size with the geometry I want and with a confidently known past history may show up. Or my friend may be able to secure a Roubaix Comp for me. Or...

@@MrLuigi-oi7gm I have nothing against new bikes though I agree with all the gripes on the list. I don't know where you live, but the used market sure doesn't reflect any shortages around here. I see high end stuff from 15 years ago going for peanuts all the time. As for the service history, maybe it's not the same where you live, but in my experience (owned my own shop for 10 years, started bike wrenching for a shop when I was 15 etc) most road bikes are barely ridden. Especially the high end ones! That Lance Armstrong fantasy was powerful and lasted a good ten years, especially where I live anyway the titanium market exploded in the early 2000s and left hundreds of LIghtspeeds and Merlins and Sevens sitting around in suburban garages with about 70 miles on them . . . Good luck with it, the Roubaixs look like great bikes.

love it

I agree, but I also have a few comments: 1. My next road bike will be with hydraulic disc brakes, no doubt about it, since they make the rims last longer, at least if you don't nick them in a pothole. I have a wonderful steel single-speed bike from 2004(!) with Open Pro Ceramic rims on DMR Revolver hubs. The are soft, laterally, but braking in wet conditions is out of this world, and since I always adjust them to small tolerances so I don't have to pull hard on them, I'm only on my second set of brake pads, even though I must have ridden that bike for more than 10,000 Km, if not twice that. I also have an identical frame with a 2000 Ultegra group set and some decent Mavic wheels. The two bicycles weigh just about the same (just north of 10 Kg), but the single-speed is my favourite of the two, especially for 100+ Km rides. However, it has to be said that my terrain is only hilly, not mountanous, with Category 4 and 5 climbs, nothing steeper. 2. I also don't like electric shifters, not so much that it's pressing a button rather then pulling or pushing a lever, but more that the bike has to be charged to work properly, and this disqualifies it as a pure bike in my opinion. A few years ago when I got a smartphone and a good training app, I removed the computers from all of my bikes, except one for commuting various distances on occasion. I have a good handful of training routes from 25 Km to 125 Km, and since I am only interested in daily distance covered, I just meassured each route once and then note the distance for my training diary for that particular day. 3. I was a bike messenger for 5-6 years 20 years ago, and since then I just rode and ride for fun, and one of the best things I ever did to enhance that joy was exactly that of removing the computers and just let the body decide how much juice it can send to the pedals on that day. I don't even wear a watch. It literally was a new form of freedom on the ride. I have had to take more than a year out due to some achilles issues, but I hope to be back on the bike this spring and get back in form. Right now I'm fatter than Jan Ulrich was every January after he won his first Tour. This is going to hurt so much!

Disks are the one modern thing I concede to because they do just make certain things nicer to live with rims not being consumable is a huge one

@Normal As You have to calculate in distance covered, not in time. I've had 3-4 wheels filed down so much there was a gap between the two layers in the rims. Once in very bad weather (sleet and wet snow) I had put on new brake pads on a sunday afternoon before work on monday morning, and I had to replace all four pads on wednesday afternoon because they were all worn down completely after, say, 250 Km for three days of work.

I'm betting you don't have a cell phone and still poop in an outhouse?

I'm with you.. I did the majorca 312 on a steel bike, rims, 25mm, externals and ultegra.. comfort just more important.

Probably because you had a lower saddle on the old bike too! (shall I get my coat?)

OK, mine is An aluminium Trek, but its as basic as anything. External cables, rim brakes. I can strip and clean it, and reassamble in no time. Can still keep up (and pass) the rich kids

My Giant Defy Adv2 cost me 2k with 105 and I'm in love with it.

Don’t let it bother you and enjoy the technology transfer. An entry level racing road bike now is far superior to a top end road bike 20 years ago. I mean hey it would be nice to buy a top end bike every two years but if your not racing at a high level you’re tossing money away. I mean top end race bikes are notorious for sacrificing comfort for performance.

@@Mottleydude1 You should race what you can replace anyway.

Buy the ones converts are selling, I got a great deal on a pair of wheels that way haha.

Bring back rod actuated brakes

@@keithreed5009 Lol!

Thank you!

The racing motorcycle analogy us dumb too since manufacturers make and test new custom designed parts to test before full production. Your paying for development and high labor costs. The bicycle industry is similar in making and testing new non mass produced stuff for pros to test. But since bicycles are much less complicated, the difference in man hours has to be much less. It's very suspect to pay big prices for micro changes to technology in bicycles. MSRP markups are huge too.

If there are 21 different bottom bracket standards then don't hold your breath waiting for a tubless tyre standard.

Hookless is also a safety hazard, IMO. Tire can "burp" off the rim mid-turn. Ask me how I know! I will only ride rims with hooks from now on.

You don't really need that high end stuff for racing... The difference between decent race bike and high end is so minor that it doesn't really matter. You would have to be on such level that the sponsors would pay for your stuff to feel any difference at all. good wheels, decent groupset, good frame, decent parts, best tires available probably 3000-4000 $ and you already sit on a road rocket. Doesn't need to go any higher up. Any performance difference with such equipment available it's you and your legs, not the bike.

Chapeau.....Jesus Christ, cringe!!!

i have heard horror stories of folks on long rides when their battery goes. not for me, even if i could afford it. yes the UCI missed to boat on the one to focus on sock heights lmao

I have been riding eTap on my road bike since 2016. Love it! I am ordering eTap for the new gravel bike this spring. Battery longevity has not been an issue for me.

Gotta disagree here. I'm on clinchers, rim brakes, but di2 I love, got it 50% off about £750 all in nearly 10 years ago...battery still only gets chart about 2 times a year, don't think I've had to adjust anything. Gone through many chains, but it just keeps working. I do like cables also there's a purity about them but di2, in its simplest form, is an upgrade.

Electronic shifting is really too expensive, but if the money doesn't make that much difference to you (particularly when buying a new bike), then it's great. You just make sure you get a wireless unit with it and have the battery status connected to your head unit and you'll never have a problem with it not being charged. I got it at the start of 2021 and have only charged it 3X so it's not really inconvenient at all. I don't care about the "principle" of it. I like having smooth shifting gears all the time with no indexing and stretching cables and all the problems and maintenance I had before. I also like having my gears displayed on my Garmin. I totally know how strong I'm riding based on what gears I need on certain parts of my ride and I always know when the best time is to switch chain rings at the front. You can't beat it. I do wish they would reduce the price of them, though, but that might come in the future as there is more and more electronic units being produced.

@@peters6119 agree its too expensive now, like most bike tech - I was lucky I got it in 2013/14 when we were in the EU and bike parts were in abundance. I built up my ribble with racing 3 wheels, shimano pro finishing kit, 6800 di2 with 5800 runnning gear, all in for about £1800. You couldnt dream of doing that nowadays. Dont feel I need wireless on it at all, the bettery check is easy you just hold down any shifter and get a solid/flashing/red indicating full/50%/charge

I tend to agree however poorly machined threaded BBs could also be a source of issue.

I always thought that the external BBs were the apex, back in about 2002 or so. Still do. LIght as a feather, cost nothing to replace and only take about two minutes per side to remove, ultra wide spacing and large diameter bearings so you don't have to have a clump of carbon the size of a grapefruit to support your stupid press fit mini-bearings that are 5/8" further inboard on each side which is the exact opposite of good engineering. Not to mention--totally retrofittable to older square drive BBs bikes.

Isn't it Specialised who put threaded BB to their new Tarmac?

There's nothing wrong with press-fit bottom brackets. As long you fit a new one twice a year they're fine!

Mm hmm. God bless Wheels Mfg conversion BBs

on my hyrbid under $1000 Kona the BB squeeked and i researched into it. i just could not stand it. wound up getting the bike shop to stick in a new one, and it was under 2500 km nuts

Too busy planning next years model to make this years one right :)

@@secretagent86 I have done thousands of km on a kona with a mystery bb noise... and I have another one that's super quiet.

Just don’t buy carbon frames. They’re built to be disposable…

It is, actually, relatively difficult because you have to ensure that the frame itself does not distort in any way, or that all distortions are symmetric at the bracket. This is, to say the least, close to impossible, especially for people who put their bike through its paces. Even if the bike leaves the factory perfectly aligned, usage will cause misalignment and squeaks.

With the modern carbon rims, “25mm” tires are usually 28-30mm wide. What I don’t get is that so many people ride tubeless and pump 100-120psi.

But in fairness today's 105 is as good as the ultra back then

@@tesmith47 Exactly. Which is a good thing, given that Ultegra and DA have eliminated mechanical shifting...

Good point from real life perspective. However, there are tons of whiners that complain about external cables posting on every review. It must be in fashion, like saying colonists.

@@stevek8829 Yeah, I think they will keep moving to fully internal cables because people think they want and it and they are ultimately buying those bikes. Same with disc brakes (I think the benefits outweigh the costs), some people are still annoyed, but the majority of people weren't buying rim brake bikes.

I've been curious in wanting Total Internal Cable Routing on my next bike, because, let's face it, for some of us, aesthetically it looks so pleasing. But comments like yours keep putting me off, and I suppose, in a positive way. I suspect you've had very bad experience with TICR?

Full internal cables is one of the main reasons why I would choose a bike. Heck, I sold my TCR precisely because I couldn’t stand looking at the exposed cables when riding it. Exposed cables look so ugly and dated. If there is a problem, all you have to do is just send it to your mechanic and pick it up a day or two later. Is it that difficult?

@@tajulislam1522 I’ll be frank. The only folks hating on exposed cables are usually those who have been in the sport for a decade or more. These folks HATE change with a passion. For us folks who are relatively new to the scene. Go for the latest. These “problems” they speak of are actually overblown at best, and nonsense at worst. Most of of friends started riding too this year and most of us are on bikes with internal cable routing (sl7, super six etc).

At least the 20 to 30 different front derailleur standards are no longer necessary. Those really were ridiculous.

@@sebastianjost Direct mount rear derailleurs will fix all this. wait... oh crap :(

Wish I still had my mid 1990's Trek 850 shx. It was the perfect all around bicycle & was only around $600 new & weighed only 27lbs. Good for hopping curbs in a hilly city, good in the 'burbs, good in the country, and good off road & on the trails.

Si

Or the industry could stop ripping people off while pissing off mechanics at the same time with keeping things reasonably simple and reliable...

Have a look for either a wider range rear cassette or a smaller front chainring the next time you need to replace the drivetrain. Issues with gearing range are easily enough fixed thankfully. 15 years ago most road bikes had less gear range than most of the current models, so that issue has at least been resolved.

Indeed! 46-30 cranks and cassettes starting with 12!

MTB has the opposite problem... all new bikes have a 1× system whose range allows easily winching up any hill at walking pace, but not to put down serious speed on the flat. (They'll tell you that “the bike isn't made for flat tarmac”, but IMO any bike should have that use case in mind as well. It's so silly to use a car to first get to the trails.)

I had never thought about the issue from a MTB perspective. Probably because I don't ride my MTB on the road. At least with a 12 speed MTB you can select a chain ring that is best for your situation. I have a MTB triple crankset (22-33-44) on my touring bike. Plenty of speed on the flat and low gears for the big climbs here in Vermont. However, this is a custom setup which is not available on a stock bike. Furthermore, I can't find any STI shifters which support a 3X front derailleur and hydraulic disc brakes. So I am stuck with cable actuated brakes.

@@peterthe46er I think the triple crank adds so much range. I have a light trailer and accommodating it and hills while still having the ability to ride without it gives great overall utility. Specialization has a price.

@@leftaroundabout . I put a 40 tooth superstar chainring on my 1x mountain bike, problem solved and I can still get up steep hills.

Totally agree. Here in the US they're called electronic shifting/shifter. A couple of months ago I went riding with someone who had just bought her first road bike. It's a spiffy $7000 carbon bike. It was her second ride on it, and half way into our ride it didn't want to shift gear anymore. I had a look... and realized in horror that it was a DI2 electronic shifter... that was out of battery. :P Yeah, a pedal bike that requires charging to shift!

You said it brother, I had the exact same thought. Rim brakes all day for me unless riding gravel

But E shift is such THE gotta have (along with disc brakes - hydraulic, of course) for all the new age gotta have soy boy hipster geeks with their download/upload data "brains". Just wait till they come out with voice command shifting........... Oh, and magnetic braking...............

you must be out of your mind if you think a mechanical cable and derailleur system that has existed for 100+ years would somehow just "do away" from the market. think logically before getting your panties in a bunch. you dont want electronic shifters dont buy them end of discussion

She probably had to fight to make this video in the first place because as a cycling journalist her job is more or less 100% funded by the marketing departments and lobby groups funded by bike companies with the intent of selling new crap to cyclists while justifying making perfectly good and often nearly universal standards obsolete so your old parts won't fit on anything new and you won't be able to get new parts for old bikes. The mountain bike landscape is even worse for it, but the profiteering on high end bikes is slightly less shameful because at least you're getting a suspension system for the same money.

True, I have some fairly old Avid BB7 cable-actuated disc brakes on both my cyclocross and tandem bikes, and they are quite powerful. No problems!

People buy what they want to buy and spend their money where they want to. But haters gonna hate

So you remember the Detto Pietro shoes which one had to NAIL the metal cleats onto? (These young'uns could not even comprehend what that is, or that was what we had to do way back in the day.) Did you double up on the toe straps like all of the match sprinters used to do, (and some even did that on their road bikes for the crits)?

I keep hearing people talk about the increased maintenance of disc brakes but what are those increased maintenance? I own two bikes with hydraulic disc brakes and I do absolutely no maintenance on them whatsoever. The only time I have to touch them is when it comes time to replace the pads. It is no more complicated than when I replaced the pads on my rim brake bikes. In fact it is easier. At least for me. Maybe I am missing something🤔🤔🤔

@@chadmyles-theclevelandcyclist i have a CX bike on disc brake, a road bike on rim brake. I just had a leak problem with my hydraulic system but once this fixed by my local bike shop which sold me this bike, maintenance are quite simple on both. In fact, i don't have to do anything except cleaning. On my CX bike, disc can be louder, but i ride in water, mud, sand,... but it always brake durong the ride ! I never complain with my rim brake either, with alloy wheels it brakes just fine. Wet or dry. Sure with wet weather braking distance is longer but its the same for a car.

Disc brakes make sense on mountain bikes, because the dirt and grit from off road riding means that rim brakes can get clogged. The combination of rim brakes and grit wear out the wheel rims very quickly. But for road bikes I'm not convinced the advantages of disc brakes outweigh the disadvantages.

I literally do more maintenance on rim brakes than disc.

@@philiphumphrey1548 clearly doesn't rain where you live

Just for status maybe?

@@tomsmith5216 Maybe, yes. I have no clue. I had that phase in my late teenager years, so it seems quite strange to me nowadays.

EXACTLY!!!

Put a tube, simple

100%! MTB can handle sealant issues but road would be an ugly mess!

Not to mention spending an hour or more cleaning your frame from the sealant mess. That stuff is nasty to get off the bike.

@@Yanp87 taking tubeless valves out on the side of the road stuck in with sealant to put a tube in can be a right pain.

@@kidkarbon4775 probably but haven’t needed too because not one puncture this year. Tubes can break too and have had duds happen on me. I’ll take a Uber every few years over changing tubes ever again

Electronic shifting. No more stretched cables, snapped cables

I'm a pandemic ebike commuter, and it's why I'm here in the first place. ebikes are perfect way to get around, provided you live in a place like the netherlands, where they actually view bikes as a mode of transportation, not a mode of sport like utah does.(god why is moving so expensive. A: a way for elites to dominate the populace) i wish this channel and other cycling channel became less about sport and more about transportation. if people actually figured out that cycling is an affordable way to get places in comfort and with utility, that would reduce our chances of being killed due to carbon emissions.

Tubeless is much more practical off road though.

Got a gravel bike recently. The brake started rubbing on the second ride.

I agree 100%. I have been riding rim brakes bikes for 22 years and I never had any problems with braking. I live in very hilly area, up to 14% gradients. I covered 28 000 km on my current bike and my brake pads and rims are still OK.

With mechanical disc brakes I definitely think they don’t perform better. Hydraulic disc brakes at least for me brake faster than rim brakes but not exactly an Apple to Apple comparison considering the only bikes I owned with rim brakes were $400 and under. When I switched to hydraulic I was spending $600 and up. I don’t notice the hydraulic disc brakes performing better in wet conditions however. Just like with rim brakes I have to give myself extra time to slow down. But I do believe this has more to do with the grip of the tires than the brakes. There is no question that hydraulic disc brakes are easier on my hands than rim brakes. When I need to stop quickly I don’t have to apply much pressure to the levers to get the bike to stop. Rims brakes this would hurt my hands every time. But, again I am comparing this to a cheaper bike. I’ve never ridden a high end bike with rim brakes. I do know the wheels are much lighter than the disc brake counterparts. I’ve ridden rim brakes most of my life so I am more familiar with that system and can maintain it myself. Parts are easier to come by especially now with all the shortages. No compatible issues with rim brakes. Not to mention everything cost less.

hydraulic disc brakes can be a lot better than many rim brakes in my limited experience, but for me the main argument would be about their effectiveness (anyone with a bit of time and skill can make rimbrakes work well enough for the average cyclist). the biggest difference would be how effing hard it is to maintain them. oil changes are pretty hard and when the seals are damaged.. that it for most parts of the system. however i think the tech is rather new for bikes. hopefully hydraulic brakes will become more userfirendly and more practical tools wil be available soon.

To make a fair comparison one would have to have hydraulic rim brakes. However, because of the efficiency of rim brakes, hydraulics are not necessary. Trying to stop 80 kilos, with a little pie plate size disc, when the forces are coming from ~ 30 cm away (approximate distance to road contact) compared to grabbing a disc (rim) that is only ~3 cm from the road, make poor mechanical sense. It’s like having a wrench with 30 cm handle compared to one with a 3 cm handle; so to handle disc brakes (spokes and all the supporting parts - including the forks) wheels have to be about 10 times stronger in torque strength, so heavier. Also, the force on the pads have to be about 10 times more, so wear more. It’s easy to see that for road bikes (off road bike have different considerations - more risk of mud on the braking surface) disc brakes don’t make sense. Therefore the road cycling community is being had by a marketing marvel 😉🥲

It's the rider any damn way. If I raced my old 2003 road bike against you, one of us would win by a certain amount. If we came back the next day and switched bikes, the same thing would happen.

@@stevek8829 if you ride 50 miles on your old POS one day then rode the same route the next day on the 2016 Edmona you will be much quicker and probably less fatigued, especially if there are some decent hills

@@mbal4052 why? Isn't the edmonda a 19 pounder in 500 carbon? That's the same as my 2003 titanium Lemond. I know my 2018 Domane is notably slower. Maybe the fat 32 tires and fat down tube.

Worse again it can't be recycled either.

Hear hear!!!!

What's your opinion on a good sub 2k bike? ( I'm thinking of up grading my older bike)

But the big brands are also going after tiny minuscule “marginal gains” at this point and have been for probably a decade. The only thing I’m happier with is components-I think frames, like many other things at this point are “good enough”.

​@@brianc380 $64000 question with so many self build options available (I recently built a Trifox X16 on ICAN 38mm carbon wheels with full Tiagra weighing in at 7.4kg incl pedals). For a pre-built something like a SAVA Herd 6.0 on 105 rim brakes (I have one and zero problems with it) or a Van Rysel EDR AF on Ultegra rim brakes. If you wanted to go up a level and go proper aero then something like a Swift Hypervox (which is UCI approved and used by at least one UCI Continental team). Pre-owned there's also the Specialized Allez Sprint and lots of decent Cannondales. The world is your oyster in this price range :-)

Thanks John👍👍

@@brianc380 I would look at the Asian brand WinSpace which is doing high quality bikes at a price point unmatched by the major brands. I will purchase one for my next bike even though I'm currently riding the types of bikes mentioned in this video

gosh, where do you find a 15 mile descent?

@@secretagent86 Washington State. We have tons of them... (I imagine Colorado does too...)

@@bikebudha01 We've got a few of our own 15-mile descents here in BC. Favorite one day ride? Kelowna to Delta (Vancouver) about 240 miles. It's not the descents I worry about...it's the climbs...on the "Ride to Survive." The first climb out of the starting blocks in Kelowna is over 20 miles.

Those Serotta Ti's were/are incredible bikes. I'd gladly take one of them over any of the modern super aero fully integrated crap that's supposed to make us all faster.

I actually DO like the look/aesthetics of totally hidden cables (as well as the fully aero/tucked-in back wheel, 'track pursuit bike with drop bars and gears/brakes') type road bike styling. But the maintenance/servicing co$t$, failure potential, and the 1/10,000th of a watt actually saved makes it just not worth the eye candy factor to me.

Though they might deny it, cycling media, whether online or in magazine form, rely on their advertisers for survival and, logically, take care not to offend them when reviewing their products. The frankness of this vid's presenter was a breath of fresh air. Hats off to the site owners who had the cojones to run it, because a lot of big names in the industry will NOT be pleased.

Too PC and cash cow

I totally experienced exact situation.Had no rear break because at 15F my rear disk was frozen solid in closed position.Got home barely but took much longer.

Interesting that there was another comment here claiming that hydraulic brakes were unreliable in the winter. Do cable disc brakes freeze worse than V-brakes or gears? Shouldn't those be about as bad in near 0°C rainy weather?

You still can't really buy anything close to a pro spec racebike off the shelf. First nearly all your superbikes in the moto world are still street legal and have to pass emissions, things that race bikes do not. And on the MotoGP side, those are purpose built race bikes with no road going version. Even WSBK bikes are heavily modified from their road going versions. In the bicycle world you can literally buy the same bike as Tadej Pogacer or Nino Schurter and ride what they ride (though it probably won't make you any faster).

Maintenance is not that bad for disc brakes.

@@Anth230 Compared to what? Rim brakes are minimal maintenance. With disc you have extra weight and fluid that must be bled from time to time.

@@jazzcookmusic5677 Disc brakes are relatively easy to service. Rim brakes need just as much service. Plus the damage done to certain rim's. I dont get the resistance to disc brakes. It's not hard to learn how to work on them. They have excellent stopping power. Before you say it the cost is comparable to maintenance. This reminds me of newer cars. Old school mechanics say they are hard to work on etc...the real thing is they just dont want to learn. There are a ton of young mechanics (and old),that have learned to work on newer cars....

There was a standard in the old days. Threaded

@@JP-om3ou True, but there were at least 3 distinct threading sizes (TPIs) for bottom brackets way back when. ;)

My 1985 CIOCC that I had custom built in Germany blew away anything I'd ever ridden prior to getting into recumbents. Still a fantastic road bike with only 12 speeds and rim brakes. But with 10's of thousands of miles, it has never had a wheel go out of true, never had a brake failure... the ONLY failure has been an original Shimano 600 SIS shifter that failed after 27 years of use on the day Sheldon Brown died shortly after we'd had a discussion about my wanting to build a wheelset up as 6 speed that I could just swap out for my original clincher wheels as an experiment and he said not to do it because my downtube shifters were a bad design and would probably fail in short order. I said I'd been using them for 27 years or so, so not really a concern for me... then he died and my shifter broke the same day. Lucky for me, I have a really good if not tidy bike shop I've been dealing with for decades and he still had a box full of that vintage shifters including my oddball 6 speed one... just in a different shade of grey.

After experiencing how hydraulic disc brakes feel, i will never go back to rim brakes. Unless they can produce rim brakes that feel like hydraulic disk brakes at a competitive price.

@@scottmcelhiney323 what a great bike story. I'd say I think you're right, and Sheldon was also right. As a bicycle mechanic myself, I love when I find those old 600 shifters in working order, and when they work they work great. Unfortunately, more often than not, when they come through the shop, they're often broken, or about to break. I do keep one good set on hand just cause.

@@sepg5084 Curious which rim brake system it is that you won't go back to. I own both, but I use hydraulic disc where it makes more sense: off-road, snow, and 3.0 tires. But on my other bikes, I love having them always be quiet, not worrying about what may contaminate the rotors. What I will not tolerate is old school cyclocross cantilevers.

@Blue Bird Same with my own, but it was decades before I built a wheel that I had my CIOCC built and the guy was fantastic. Possibly the best $680 I ever spent on transportation. Little shop in Landstuhl Germany where the local racers hung out and plenty of stories to tell about it. Best was probably the time I (in the prime of my life as a US soldier stationed on Ramstein AFB) headed to town to get something from the bike shop. Headed down the hill from my house, onto the main road through Meisenbach and I'm blasting along and a guy merges from a side street. I tuck onto his tail and he's pulling me along at about 25mph, after a bit I figure I'll take a pull... so I get out of the saddle and crank it up intending to take the lead and he just pulls away from me, repeatedly letting get back on his tire until we got to the bridge over the autobahn when he gets out of the saddel and just explodes out of sight over the bridge. I get to the bike shop and see his bike up against the outside wall and go in... the owner greets me with, "Oh was that you?" "Yeah..." "Don't feel bad, he was the world champion in 1956..." This was in 1985... guy looked like someone had peeled back the skin on his calves and put bricks under the skin and sewed him back up. I think his calves were thicker than my thighs.

there are new cars at 12k€ (sorry not familiar with $) and others more than 100k€. You can choose what car you need/want. For the bike its the same, the range for a very good bike, carbon frame is from 2000€ to 15000€. A Porsche 911 or a Dacia will go at the same speed limite... We see a lot of super bike in videos or magasines at a price like 10k or more, because brand send those bikes to the redactions. Its the same for the cars, the send to journalists the high price for example, for an Audi, they will send to auto journalist S-line, with all the option, the car may start at 35k€ (A4 avant for example) but the model they present is 50k€ or more. Its their flagship, their top end bike can seduce buyer, not for buying this exclusives 15k€ but their "normal" model : Canyon Ultimate SL versus CFR, Tarmac SL7 versus S-work SL7, Bianchi Oltre XR3 versus XR4... for this 3 bikes, the price is multiplied by 3 each time ! You can ride a Spe SL7 for 5,4k€ or 15,4k€. The industry don't force yourself to buy a top end bike.

Right, and Italian and French threading. Square-taper BBs had numerous widths, as well...

Dude you're damn lucky cause you've met Dave Grohl.

@@mayurpathak7347 Yes sure am. The FooFighters also played a 2 hour concert in my friend's garage that day! Pretty damn cool. As they were leaving Dave actually tapped me on the shoulder asking if I was the guy who wrote that book(the big orange book we're both pointing at), because he was going to read it. All in all a very cool day! My daughter just saw Dave and lots of others at Glastonbury!!!! Oh yeah, we all ride bikes too!!!!🚴‍♀

@@joediomede1961 awesome

Get one used on Craigslist bubbah

After my last rim brake meltdown (other people have had similar issues) on a steep descent, I will ONLY get disc brakes. Additionally, in wet and foggy conditions, rim brakes are, IMHO, not confidence-inspiring.

I found out on Christmas day that Rain and carbon wheels with rim breaks DON'T WORK!

​@@joonlee920 Disc brakes are superior, when in good condition, my issue with them are how much harder they are to maintain. I generally maintain my own bike and prefer how much simpler they are. It bothers me that a lot of sub 2k bikes come disc brake only.

@@willisix2554 I use rim brakes on AL wheels only.

Disc brakes are not a "trend", they are the new standard. Accept it and move on.

I think that might screw their business model...