Thank you RIVER RAT PRODUCTIONS! I'm hoping it'll help

I appreciate the feedback Billy, thank you!! With the weather cooling off, testing will be more regular

Awesome OutdoorOriginal! Good luck and if you need any questions answered let me know!

I got a 16ft with a 22hp. What’s a good size prop I run a 9 now

Thank you! Did I miss anything??

@@JTgatoring not that i seen. Great job. I do have 1 question, what's up with the Tom Selleck mustache? 😁

@@cdp50359 Haha "No Shave November" and I can't have a beard at the fire department so a mustache is what I got 😅

@@JTgatoring I hear ya

Thank you William!!

You're welcome 😁

Thank you GetOutTheHouseGoFish!!

Great comment Thai Sean! Along with the video you made 👍

Haha I really enjoyed the 212 on my 1436. 12 mph was the normal mph. It's enough for a normal day. The 420 definitely has a lot more umph if you need the added power or speed. Downsizing the prop should help with your situation. A tachometer will also help you diagnose your problem. I've never seen another longtail in person while I'm out in the water and I'm in the water covered state of florida 😂

I went down a very similar rabbit hole as you, and that is why I used the corkscrew analogy because I felt that most people can wrap their head around it even though its not the complete answer. I would love to be able to make my own props and play with pitch, rake, cupping, all that fun stuff. You are completely right, and it is difficult to find information on props. Its a science of its own.

@@JTgatoring the biggest reason I wanted to point it out was so people know why diameter affects speed and the load on an engine so much, even if pitch is the same. It took me an unnecessary amount of time to put all the pieces together as to why that is lol.

@@playinlikejimi I completely agree with you, its good info you posted, I'm reading your FB message now haha

Curious, what combo (prop, shaft length, boat and such) did you use to get to that 23 mph with a 6.5? I am in the middle of building my own and the prop is the biggest variable as to where to start.

@@southronjr1570 most important part is to keep it light. Once the boat is weighed down, it slows down drastically. But I got those speeds with a 6.5" prop, stage 3 kit from NR Racing, and pushing around 6k RPM typically.

Great! Not many people have a 1642. That sounds like a nice size boat. I am surprised you can turn a 10.5" prop on a 670 with that boat. Most people can only get up to a 9.5" prop with a 1542 and 670 engine. Do you know what your RPM's were?

@@JTgatoring no I don’t have a tach on it but I do believe it went to the limiter. It’s a completely stock 670. Every thing I’ve seen said 10” 10.5” props needed more motor I was afraid it would bog down but it did fine on my setup. I went and checked and it’s a 10” kkk prop I don’t recall the pitch of it. We had 2 people a 80lb battery, cooler and a tool bag in the boat while testing.

How fast did y’all go

@@jtfishing6929 I haven’t checked on the gps with the big prop yet. I removed my governor and put the 9.5” back on and now it’s the faster setup. The 10” prop was keeping it just below the governor.

Was running the 8.5 with the same speed but turning more rpms to reach that speed. You can get more rpms if you remove the screw on your throttle linkage that is on the motor itself.

@@jimmyhopewell9142 Yeah the 16 or 18hp vtwin sounds awesome, and it's lightweight, just expensive when you compare it to the predator engines. As for right now, I'm trying to keep my motor bone stock so others know what to expect from a stock engine. I hear a lot of people removing that screw. You haven't experienced any issues with doing that?

No if ya rev it high enough it just floats the valves. I was going to remove the govenor from inside the engine and order some stronger valve springs so I can rev it higher. But then people say you need to go with billet aluminum flywheel once you start increasing the rpms. But I haven't done any of that I want to try a 8.5 hurricane prop first before I tear into the engine.

@@jimmyhopewell9142 Yeah, Once you open it up, might as well do something while its open. Let me know how the hurricane prop runs for you. I haven't heard much about it

@@JTgatoring 16 Vanguard is Crackerjack motor!

Possibly. Just send swamp runner a message or give them a call. They'll be able to help you out with it. I didn't have any issues with my hurricane fitting

Hey Jon. I have not heard of anyone doing that. In the states there are a lot of options. You can either find a distributor or prop maker in the states, or you can get them from over-seas from China or Thailand. It would also depend on the shaft of the engine. The thai longtail has a tapered shaft. The majority of the surface drive motors in the states have a hexagonal shaft. They use to be threaded, but people were stainless props on and stripping the threads on the shafts or snapping the shafts. The hexagonal shaft fixed this issue. In the states, they make 2 blade, 3 blade, and even 4 blade props. There are many options here. So it would depend on what you're using the motor for, what type of shaft the prop fits on, and what style of prop would be needed for your use.

That is the issue I run into with my 85" shaft on my medium kit. Once I run over 20 mph, I outrun my wake and gets hard to handle. I'll be playing with it this year and see if I can come up with a solution

Hope you figured out by now. More pitch. Adjust skeg. But most of all move the motor back 1-2 holes on the bracket. I run the 100” and yes had to play with things but once you get it figured out and enough pitch you can run it on half the prop and it’ll still bite and keep it self half floating in the water not float up or kick out port. It’ll float. The top half of the prop is only drag… as funny as that sounds it is what it is.

I haven't heard from anyone who runs the props from mud skipper. I've had people tell me about the swamp runner hurricane and bullet props. Most people who chase after speed use the 8" bullet, and 8.5" hurricane, or go with an oversized standard prop like you're currently doing. Other than that, there's no other easy way to go fast other than increase hull performance.

Those are some good speeds. What kind of modifications have you done to the engine and what shaft length do you have? As for your prop, I think that's the best you are going to get. As you said, the 6.5 is smaller and it's hitting the rev limit. The 7.5" seems like it would be too much, but you never know. You could give it a try. The hurricane props have the increased pitch, but if you're running a "heavier" load, pitch is your enemy when it comes to a heavy load. It multiplies the load on the engine. The standard props are best for hauling loads. If you're going to try and get top speed, it may be best to try the 7.5" standard. The 7" hurricane should fit your kit, and would most likely work, but swamp runner only sells the hurricane props to swamp runner owners. If your engine is spinning 4500 rpm's or more, then the hurricane would really work. They like high RPM's just like the bullet props, but for standard RPM's, the standard props work great. You're already getting really good speeds

Awesome! Sounds like you have it dialed in. That seems like a pretty long shaft for that setup. If it works for you, great, but you could probably get a shorter shaft if you needed too. But a 1232 with an 8hp and an 8" prop sounds about right at 17 mph.

The trolling motor shaft on my boat is 36". If I could get a new one, I would probably go with something a little longer with the way mine is set up on my bow.

JT is the man to watch. Great info on ALL his videos

Thanks for the feedback! I will post a video or something when I’m done with mine

@@Peckerwood722 Great! I look forward to it Zach!

It would be best to contact the manufacturer of the motor. They should be able to tell you. If not, try a facebook group. I have not put my hands on a twister.

Well, the only mud motor company that I know of that deals with a lot of different styles of props is Swamp Runner. I would reach out to them and see what they say.

You would need a tachometer. It is normally a small black box with a display and a wire coming out of it. Most people refer to them as a tach. They are installed by wrapping a wire around the sparkplug lead. Once the wire is wrapped, it calculated the RPM's by the electrical pulses to the spark plug. That will allow you to see the real-time RPM's of your engine

@@JTgatoring got it, thanks!

I know longtail props, but I do not know much about outboard marine engines. You should be getting more than 1800rpm on a marine engine. The more RPM's, the faster the prop spins and the faster you go. If your RPM's are currently low with the prop you have now, then you need to go to a smaller prop.

Very nice Ricky, what kit do you have and how does it handle on your 1648?

I've had one or two people tell me about doing that but not many know of that trick. I haven't had the time to play with it myself. It's been a long time since I've played with my longtail. That's really cool though! I'll have to give it a try when I can. I think adding some gearing would be really cool to do for a longtail. It does add some complexity to it and does add one more thing to break, but for some, it would definitely be worth it. That would be cool to have a little shifter for your longtail haha

@@JTgatoring yea it’s kinda hard to get to. It’s definitely about power to weight with rpm’s and enough prop to do it. You kind of can’t do it with a perfect tuned rig either. It’s gotta be a bit front heavy like when you have to use a stick under the handle. And just go as fast as it’ll go till it sounds like it’s limited out. Adjust stick so prop ends up higher and higher. Till it either does it and you can back off the gas when it does. Or you don’t have enough power or prop. For the long canal trips I take it’s just easier to use a stick and half prop it. Once it does it I speed up and it starts to overrev so I back off a bit and cruise 22-24 real light boat 25-26. If it doesn’t half prop. 20-22… like normal running.

@@JTgatoring yea dang doesn’t even look like you’ve posted a video in over 2 years.

@@MrT13 It sounds like you got it figured out for your needs. I know I had mine tuned and figured out pretty well. And yeah, I've been attending to some things that took priority and required my time. I will get back to making videos and enjoying my rig, the only question is when. Thanks for sharing and stopping by Mrt

@@JTgatoring I think I talked to you before. But if you get time and can travel east to the Everglades. I’ll roll with you one day and take you to the camps, picnic, tower, etc. hope you get your life in order. I’m older than you so if I may. Money first. Family is always there. Women come and go with money….. but you only ever get out what you put in. In the gym. At the job. In the mind. At the beach watching in your case the sunset. Hope you got something better going on than just never going out. I’m going frogging tomorrow. In mentioned boat. At low water. And stabbing catfish and tilapia. Hell or high water….

I would recommend getting a tachometer for the engine so that you know. Just from the sounds of it, if it's a true thai longtail, a 7.5" prop would be small for that setup. An 8.5 should run pretty well on that with a normal to light load if it is a riveted jon boat. If the 8.5" is too big, the 8" would be the go too. Again, I would think the 7.5" would be too small unless its a welded boat that's fully loaded.

@@JTgatoring there’s about 500 pounds in the boat normally (2 people, battery’s, etc) and the 8.5 ran pretty good but any thick mud or thick/tall weeds would choke the motor down a lotttt

Also is a 2 blade or 3 blade better

@@504Evan Hey Evan! I'm not the most familiar with other props. I know longtails pretty good because there's not much out there and I've tested most of them. I know that RPM matters. You need a tachometer to know what RPM's your engine is spinning. Then you need to know what your engines max RPM rating is. Try to get as close to that as possible. So say the engine maxes out at 4000 rpm. Aim for 3700 to 3900 RPM to get the most out of it. You can either increase pitch or increase the diameter. If I remember correctly, half-inch pitch is worth 1-inch diameter. So a 9" prop with a 6" pitch (9x6) would perform similarly to an 8" prop with a 6.5" pitch (8x6.5) (on paper that is). What I remember is when it comes to two or three-blade prop, is that two blade will normally get more speed due to less drag, while the three-blade has a better hole shot and performs better in current. Don't take my word for it though. That's just what I remember from a conversation with an older fisherman I had while out on the dock.

I don't mind that setup. I used to have it on my jon boat. 6.5hp is great if you just need motor for your jon boat. It would depend on you load. The normal: 6.5 standard prop. People have stated they've ran a 7.5" prop on a hopped up 6.5hp engine and some run a 7 on a standard engine. If its really heavy with a big load, then maybe a 6.25" prop but the standard props have the best low end, towing/torque, hulling stuff performance. If you need speed, the hurricane props provide that extra pitch. So with that engine I haven't heard too many people running the hurricane prop on it, it is mostly the 6.5" standard prop or the 7" if you have a light boat and load.

@@JTgatoring thank you

No problem, good luck!

It would depend on your hull and the load inside the boat. If it's a light and skinny boat, you could get up to a really high pitch prop like a 6.5 hurricane or a 6.5 bullet prop by SPS. But most people don't have a light enough setup so the hurricane would probably do best. Having more pitch will help keep the prop in the water. Less pitch and the prop will want to climb out, but too much weight means you will have to decrease the load on the engine which means a decreased pitch or diameter. The good thing is that the thai longtail props are pretty affordable and you can get multiple sizes to test out if you really want to dial it in.

@@JTgatoring thanks alot for your response

Somewhat... First two digits are feet, last two digits are inches.1032 is a 10 foot boat with a 32" bottom. 1436 is a 14 foot boat with a 36" bottom.

You can use heat and/or get a prop puller. Some people have also used a bearing puller. You need to apply tension to the prop (some type of pulling/pushing force in the direction you need to take it off) and then a way to equally apply a high force to it. That's how the prop pullers work. You apply tension and then use a piece of wood to hit against the back end of the prop puller to break the friction fit. Some people use two hammers at the same time on each ear of the prop as close to the hub as possible, but by the sounds of it, its going to take a good amount of force to get it off so I wouldn't recommend the two hammers.

I know they have an 8", but I got the 8.5". So two that I know of

Thank you, yeah I’ll have to try them out.

@@travisthompson6623 Yeah, just give them a call and ask which one would be best for your set up. I spin the 8.5 without any problem and I can spin a 9, so thats why I went with the 8.5 hurricane

That would depend on the style of mud motor you have. I know thai longtails, but american style longtails and surface drives act different

@@JTgatoring thanks for the reply. The motor is a longtail style.

@@wpb34 Alright, well a thai longtail runs differently than an american longtail. They use different props. If the boat is a 1648 with a 24hp engine, that seems about right but a little slow. I would recommend getting a tachometer and seeing where your RPM's are at. Once you know your RPM's, you can better choose a prop.

@@JTgatoring thanks bro. The tach comes in today. I think it is taching out. Bigger prop and more pitch maybe. My first mud boat. Definitely challenging, but effective

@@wpb34 already had one ordered, nice. Yeah, put it on there, and if you're over 3800 while in the water at full throttle with your normal load, then get a bigger prop. I think the saying goes... an inch of diameter is worth two inches of pitch. So if you go up a half inch in diameter, it would be the same as keeping your current diameter prop and going up 1" in pitch.

It would depend on your weight. If you're under 150lbs and have some bow weight and an empty hull, you may be able to pull it off, but most people are over 150lbs and have the boat loaded down and in that situation, it will be too heavy. Also, it may be too much for that transom when it comes to power. All depends on what you're expecting from the setup. Theres many ways to address a single issue

@@JTgatoring I'm 235 my passenger is 220 it worked ok. I got 16 mph down river then 13 back up. I've also ran it with the hull completely empty except myself and one gallon of fuel. Both times had nothing in the bow. Transom seems to be ok so far. I want faster but it seems that might be unreasonable.

@@JTgatoring I uploaded a video for you

@@Iowawalrus I looked at the video and with that boat, the transom has that center support so you should be fine if you aren't too rough on it. The alumacraft I have failed with a 13hp engine but the support was off-center. If you want fast, long and narrow is your best bet. The 1436 I run will go 17 mph with my 150lbs; a 220lb passenger; along with the floor, deck, and fishing gear with a stock 420 engine. I get a constant 22mph if solo. It's a 1236, you may be asking too much of it. Still, 16 ain't bad. I've heard a lot slower. Heck, the backwater I had with the same 420 stock engine would only go 16mph and that was solo with a light load.

@@JTgatoring thanks for you're input very much Appreciated. Great info

Bigger prop or a prop with more pitch

Otherwise modifying your engine to get more rpm out of it

Hello James, I know about 8 weeks late here, but hopefully you'll still see this. Given the speed you're getting, I've got to ask about the boat itself. How long? How wide? How heavy? (The width and weight are both more important than length, from what I've been researching on these motors.) Apparantly, your setup performs best with a boat width in the 32" - 38" range, with narrower being betterer. Weight is the other big factor. Basically, the heavier the boat, the lower it rides in the water. The more of the boat that's in the water makes more drag. If it's too heavy, your 6½ ponies may not have enough grunt to push it up on plane. Once on plane, the drag drops off considerably. You may want to do a weight audit. Do you really need everything you have onboard? A cooler with 100# of ice and a spare 25# anchor is a big penalty in a smaller boat. About 6 weeks ago, someone demonstrated the importance of the width to me, in a pretty impressive way. He has a Swamp Runner with a 16HP engine. He built his own boat. It is plywood on a minimal frame, then fiberglassed inside and out. It's only 36" wide at it's widest point and the transom narrows down to 28". Here's the kicker, it's 21' 7" long and notably heavier than an aluminum boat. It looks like a big, flat bottomed canoe. At 32mph, it's like riding a torpedo down the river. He told me if it's just him and no gear, he can get 37mph. He's a pretty big guy, about 260#. I'm even bigger at 285#. We are about the same height. I'm 6' 6". We went to his brother's place to run against his brother's boat as a comparison. Brother has a 16' aluminum Jon that is 48" wide. He has the same Swamp Runner, only it has an 18hp on it. The longer, heavier, canoe thing (I think he told me it's called a perogie, or something like that.), just flat out ran away from that jonboat. Now his '16hp' engine has "had some work done", and he's running a hurricane prop @5,800 rpm. The engine is out of a golf cart, I believe he said it is a Subaru engine. Brother's 18hp Preditor has also been worked on but he can only turn the hurricane about 4,600 rpm, so he's running the biggest standard prop. Both of them blame the width of the jonboat for it's lower top speed. I'm now very seriously considering building myself a boat like this. He says that he will sell me the next blown-up golf cart motor that comes in his shop. And he will show me what I need to rebuild it like his. He said parts and the used (blown) motor should be about $375. Since that motor, stone stock, sells for about $650, that sounds like a deal to me. With any luck, come next spring, I'll be fishing out of a giant wooden canoe. Plenty of room on this thing, I could fit every fishing pole I own and still have room.

@@bob2161 14-36 and I found out the 7.5 is to big but the 7 is perfect I just need a bigger motor

@@jamesrogers6307 I'm glad you're getting it worked out. BTW, I'm learning that there are quite a few things you can do to these engines substantially to improve their output.

I haven't been in that situation before. If you put too small of a prop on I'm sure you would be able to find out. I would think it would have a lot of slip and some cavitation

If you set your boat up right or get lucky etc. once your going if your running full prop in water. Get on plane. And have enough pitch or rpm. You will experience true half prop running. It’s very noticeable too, usually you can let off the gas a bit and keep it going. It’s smooths out. Has sort of a floating effect. Starts to over rev but goes faster. All at the same time. So to answer your question actually yes. If you have weeds on the prop. Or it’s too small for weight and hp. Big props less pitch don’t halfprop either below 4000. It’s gotta be a race prop or hurricane or t76 etc. But no even with half the prop in water they don’t cavitate they actually run better.

Could you be a little more specific?

@@JTgatoring I think I have figured it out now but I have a 1436 Jon boat with a 22 horse long tail and anytime I rev it above a bout half throttle the prop comes out of the water. I think the boat is way overpowered because with multiple people in it it runs great

@@jjbassin357 Yeah that's a lot for a 1436. You could watch this video if you have a thai longtail and it should help - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fKdxas1hybzWfIk.html Also try a smaller prop like a 8.5 or 8.75. A 9" prop seemed to be too much for my 1436 but anything smaller works great. Also, once I reach 20+ mph it becomes difficult to handle due to the fact that I start to outrun my wake.

Very true. I do hope that in the future there will be multiple choices for pitch on props. I do not believe it has reached a need yet in the general market for the companies to go after this. It seems most people just want a cheap motor to move the boat and that's all they need. Very few actually want to dial in a longtail and make it the best it can be. You mention a lot of good information, and I know I've experienced that these American jon boats were not designed for longtail use. The transom is too high, the seat is in the way, and the transom is too weak and not designed to handle longtail mud motor. People make it work though. Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it and enjoyed reading it!

You gotta know what your RPMs are. There's a lot that goes into trouble shooting that. With it being a 22hp engine, you probably already have a 100" shaft and a 9" and 9.5" prop. 14mph doesn't sound right. The first thing I would mess with is the weight distribution in the boat. That can actually make a very big difference. I'm starting to recognize that when you start to load down these jon boats, you reach a certain point and you no longer are on top of the water. It starts to sink and plow through the water. The rake on the hulls are almost non existent. Play with your weight distribution in the boat and get a tachometer. From there I could better help you

@@JTgatoring thanks. tach will be on tomorrow so ill let you know. but also im starting to think its a weight distrabution thing or i need to mount the motor further aft because if i dig the prop deep into the water i can get it to about 17mph.

That seems to be a trick, like a give and take. With my sps longtail, I can ride out smooth at 20mph, but if I dig it and full throttle it can really get your mph up. Depending on what mud motor you have, theres a few things to play around with. A tach will give you a base line and help you better understand what is going on and where to go from

Whatever that boat is rated for. It would probably be best to do the harbor freight 8hp engine for that size boat

@@JTgatoring thanks for the advice, I’ve never had a mudmotor but I want one for this little boat and I think for what I do it’ll work good I just didn’t know where to start but thank you!

@@michaelcandelora5673 Yeah, no problem. There are lots of videos you can find on the channel to help you with your decision. If you have any other questions, let me know!

It'll push it. I'm going to finish testing this backwater kit and then I'm putting my original 6.5hp engine and small sps on the 1436 I have now and play with prop sizes, load, and speed. The last time I had it on I was running a 6.5" prop and got a solid 12mph sometimes 13mph. I have others saying they are running the same setup getting 16mph and then using a hopped up 6.5hp and getting 20mph with performance props. So I want to play around with it and see

@@JTgatoring same i have a old 70s duracraft jon boat 14ft so its well built and I say it does decent with all the weight in it prob just need a bigger prop it has a 6.5in on it now and my 10ft jon I just run the 6.5in prop it scoots

@@bandedcalls Yeah, you'll be seeing the 6.5hp in some upcoming videos on the channel. I'm excited to see how it does. Its been awhile

@@JTgatoring you ever heard of a 6.5hp raven motor its electric and pull

@@bandedcalls I have not. I'll look it up

That's pretty good on that downriver speed! What prop do you normally run?

@@JTgatoring 8 1/2 got get a 9 and try it out I use my boat a lot put 80 hours on the motor last year seems reliable so far have a stage 1 upgrade on it air filter bigger jet a different exhaust get a lot more power out of the motor

@@jeremybahm2163 Awesome! I may get a used motor and try upgrading it to see what kind of speeds I can get. I've been keeping mine stock so that others know what to expect from a standard engine off the shelf