Followed over from SB part 1. Really enjoyed the video, you both handled yourselves well and it was refreshing to see two people that have differing views have a friendly debate without coming to blows - this world could use a lot more of this. Hopefully some more of Rogers ~500k subs will help your channel grow. Looking forward to seeing Roger at an installation, so please make that happen. Keep up the great work.

This is what healthy debate looks like. 2 Great videos from two fellas who really know their onions coming at the issue from different (but ultimately not opposing ) standpoints. Brilliant stuff

The old dog has note pad ,the young pup has a laptop , love it

Brilliant stuff. I really hope Roger goes along to an install with you guys.

Love both channels and really enjoyed the debate. Great points raised by both Adam and Roger and you're both great communicators and presenters of information. One thing I will say is regardless of your opinion on heat pumps currently, the industry will become a car crash without people like Adam and the Heat Geeks who strive for better design, better knowledge, better training, better technology, better installs. The passion really shows through.

What a great pair of videos. I watched the original films and it was so pleasant to see both parties articulating their views and realizing they had more in agreement than disagreement. TV gold to me.

These guys should become joint UK heat policy advisors to the government (when they're not having parties!)

I really wish we could integrate the Heat, AC, Clothes Dryer, Refrigerator, and Water Heater into a single interconnected system. (Ground Loop, Heat Pumps, Solar Pre-Heating, etc. ) Create large hot and cold storage that can be tapped as needed throughout the day. Sometimes you may need to just dump heat, or cold, but otherwise, it can be recovered and put to use...

Came over from SkillBuilder, well done on a healthy debate. I wish everyone could do this nowadays lol. Subscribed.

Brilliant ! Love both of you. Wish the government had people like you advising them on the whole heating industry and its lack of education. There has never been one answer to anything and it will come from a number of different technologies and this will change constantly as fast moving technologies change. WE NEVER STOP LEARNING!

Amazing videos guys! Really nice to see two passionate and knowledgeable people engaging in a thorough discussion on important topics

Great conversation. Well done on coming together and having meaningful dialogue. 👏

Really love the video guys! Old school having a debate with new school, I’ve always prided myself on being a top tier engineer designing low temp heating system break downs etc. And always try be honest with customers. But your videos have made me go out of my way even more to learn and become better with hot water priority and hydrologic separation. Only 26 running my own business with a partner and two guys working for me and it’s been nice to go to them with this new knowledge especially to the two older guys working for me, it makes you feel more fulfilled as an installer not just ripping people off and banging in crap. Going to look at the heat geek course and there only one guy down in Exeter I’ve see who has

Great video, good to see you both sat at a table discussing face to face, very interesting.

Thank you both and well done for generating more light than heat, which too many debates fail to do. Roger mentioned leak detection, so here's a throwaway idea I never got to try on a real system (retired now). Vehicle screenwash (possibly the anti-freeze component) sets off a combustible gas detector (try taking the lid off, putting the sensor at the mouth of the container and watching the detector go crazy). It should be possible to put some screenwash in the system and use the combustible gas detector to hunt for leaks. I assume it would need to be flushed out afterwards.

Well done! A good example of how the discussion about renewables vs other technologies should be approached.

Great to see intelligent conversation linking the full scope of design, install, & operation of new technology which is essential for progress- well done guys 🍻

I only found SB today through the RAAC video and am now here after watching part 1 of this conversation on SB and I love it. I don't own a house, I have never thought about heat pumps before now I've watch 90 minutes all about the heating industry and I'm hooked! Great work to both of these channels for sitting down and having this conversation, love it.

Very interesting and informative. Confess I had considered infrared so this was useful information!

This is a really great discussion, thanks to you both!

Followed over from SB part 1. Very informative and so genuine arguments put over. so refreshing and very interesting , excellent and informative from both sides.

great video Roger I've been a heating engineer for 30plus years glad ime coming out this new part l regs every boiler change

A great video that was thoughtful and had lots of excellent ideas. It also gives me hope that people who disagree can 'sometimes' work together for the common good to tackle serious issues.

Enjoyed both parts and had a feeling you’d get along, look forward to the follow up vid on Rogers thoughts after the heat pump site visit. 👍🏻

The main thing is this conversation is happening at all and future tech is being invested in and developed. We could lead the world in renewables etc if we do have the guts and the will to go for it 🤘😎🤘

Great conversation and thanks for taking time to explain the issues. 👍👍

Roger: look at what it is. Adam: look at what it could be. Roger: look at what it is. Adam: look at what it could be. Roger: look at what it is. Adam: look at what it could be.

Fascinating discussion from 2 smart professionals. Look forward to part 3.

Both Adam and Roger are doing an amazing job of explaining key issues related to our journey to net zero in our heating systems. We will all be much happier if we at least try to solve the problem of climate change. If China and others don't play ball and the worst climate scenarios happen, at least we know in our hearts that we've tried. If there are a few bad heat pump installations due to the speed we must move, that's an acceptable price to pay for real progress.

Followed you both for a long time now, this was a great discussion. Nice to see...

Been watching both of you for a while. Love this discussion. You two are very similar People, more similar than I think either of you would like to admit haha

Fascinating debate. I have been following skill builder for sometime and I have now subscribed to your channel. My opinion of heat pumps have changed since I watched both parts to this video. I look forward to watching all your content and to learn more about heat pumps. Great debate. Keep up the good work.

Wow good on you both well done for getting together

Excellent and informative debate. I've subscribed to Rogers SB Chanel for years, now I've subscribed to HG, a result for you Adam as I'm not easily convinced towards new KZfaq subscriptions!

I've watched both parts on both channels. Great videos and overall discussion. Great to hear the key points and concerns around subsidies, training, investment, hydrogen for domestic homes (cough - turkeys voting for Christmas). Thank you for making this and sharing.

loved both videos guys your both very knowledgeable and I would trust both of you to install anything in my property, although I'd prefer a HEAT PUMP lol. keep it up guys, this rhe the kind of honest debate we need. can't wait to see the video of install with Roger. 8m sure he'll be pleasantly surprised and is humble enough to admit it. thanks guys

A very decent and honest debate on the pros and cons of heat systems , really enjoyed it . Bottom line is what you can afford is what you get . And in todays financially strapped home owners , that will be extremely hard .

Great to see that people can differ from opinion without just shouting at each other. I'm still pro Heat Geek and ready for my heat pump install.

So good to hear a proper sensible discussion on a subject, full marks to both of you. It’s a rare thing these days. 👏👏

Utterly amazing. Watched part 1 last night. Now watched this. Apart from the actual subject matter in hand, this is a masterclass in how to argue, debate, evaluate - using facts. Considering the nightmare in politics (October 21, 2022), this is so refreshing indeed. "They" should be forced to study this as part of an indication course. Mark. (Disclosure - I have a full heat pump system installed in 2011. Mixed feelings about it. Note that our system does NOT have an electric heating element and will raise water to 55C throughout the year. So we do not feel cold, but in the winter it is very expensive. The whole system was designed for the house - house has huge double radiators etc etc).

really enjoy wathching this!

Amazing video. Been waiting for this one.

Great discussion- I followed both Rodger’s and Heat Geeks videos around heat pumps. Firstly- this is how conversations should happen. If only the rest of the world could follow this example. It’s very easy to close the conversation. Heat networks were mentioned fleetingly- I’d be interested in thoughts around this topic. Probably using both heat pump and possibly hydrogen boilers serving multiple buildings - particularly in cities and towns. I think the emphasis on this is a similar point with heat pumps. The success of this is down to the design and installation. Similar horror stories with initial projects in the UK as that industry is in its infancy stage- but on paper- mass decarbonisation quickly/ no tank/ low cost and familiar look and feel for homeowners.

I love Adam's enthusiasm and approach to the future!

I'm here from Rogers Skillbuilder - Great discussion guys

These same arguments on both sides happen here in the states too, appreciate the content.

I am a member of public but not a plumber and wince at the amount we are spending to heat a house built in 1990 with gas! A neighbour has installed a heat pump but went back to using his gas boiler as it was costing him more to run the heat pump. I suspect it wasn't designed properly for a property with microbore pipes. If I could get an assurance my heating costs would be no higher with a heat pump I would go ahead, solely to help cut carbon emmisions for our children and grandchildren. I'm hoping to persuade our daughter to switch from gas to a heat pump and, if succesfull, will be paying Heat Geek to survey their house. I'm really impressed with their knowledge and ability to explain technical things in a way I can understand. Keep up the great work!

I love how skilbuilder uses the language that we hear in the oil sponsored media, just because more wealthy people can afford it now, it’s the first part of the chain that starts to reduce prices as we get to scale with production. These is an enormous reduction in Carbon dioxide from heat pumps. His whole argument is we’ll need more stuff and it’s different to what we’ve done, and I don’t like it, innovation brings change, some win, some loose but that’s how we move forward. The big effort should be on the insulation of properties and much higher standards for new builds which should be passive. If other countries can do it, why should we be proud to lag behind.

Top class respectful debate. Reducing embodied carbon and energy use is the biggest challenge of the next decade. Credit to Geek Heat for putting some great info out there.

What a great video! Thanks 👍👍

Well done to the both of you, interesting conversation.

Great videos guys!

Great points about consumer knowledge and ability to deal day to day with more complex systems. It's a problem but there are plenty of older folk who manage to use the internet and smartphones etc. and if they do get stuck perhaps they call their nephew or something for help. So I think Adam has it spot on that the main thing is to get the message out there to as many people as possible, because then at some point just about everybody will know someone who can help if they need some advice or assistance

Really enjoyed the video.

thanks guys very nice presentation , i really enjoyed listening and learning

It's about time that Roger followed up on your invitation to an installation. Lots of people are keen to see him being won over. 😂

A Pair of PROPER GEEZERS Talking from their own experiences and in-depth knowledge. GET YOUR ASSES INTO No 10

Well done to both of you for a good spirited and important discussion. It was a little frustrating seeing Roger trying to drag it into a political discussion but there was lots of valuable knowledge from Adam and cold hard facts. The heat pump saynayers need to come up with solutions not problems.

This is great, I’m having these same conversations day after day.

My mum has an electric boiler. If you are rich they are perfect. Small, silent, instant and clean at the point of use. Sadly costs a mint to run but plenty people don’t have any money worries, hence installs in London going through the roof.

Fascinating discussion. And this is why I’ve opted for a new boiler rather than going down the heat pump route. Over a month just for a surveyor to come out. At least 5 months until an installation (and prob delayed again). Huge upheaval and changes to the home. Lack of service engineers and potential problem with parts. I’m sticking with a good old reliable brand new Worcester Bosch boiler for the next 15+ years.

Watched part 1, great debate and good points allround.

great content. Thanks

Great video guys glad you got on well. As someone who was very negative about Roger im happy to say i was wrong partly and he comes across very well.

a good end to a rocky road, well done all involved.

One thing possibly worth mentioning is that heat pumps are a lot better at using diverted solar PV from my roof than gas boilers. If you can run your HP during the day on electricity from your PV and battery storage and then use cheap rate(low co2) electricity at night they will be a lot cheaper to run than a gas boiler and produce a lot less co2. Totally agree on the carbon tax and insulation points.

Glad to see things didn't get too heated

Great video!! in my opinion customers' attitude has not changed in the 20yr I've been in the industry the general public is self-centred and doesn't have the time to research the installation of a heat pump. They are more interested in a no-talent family "Kardashian" or the next love triangle in love island than looking on their phones or tablet to look at the central heating design as long as big companies can promise one size fits all installation and promise to make installation stress free your message will fall on deaf ears. I don't think you'll see the results until the end of your working life unless there is a big change in public opinion. But I commend you for endeavouring and keep up the fight for low-temperature heating

What a brilliant debate I call it a draw over two parts ,I have been a plumber/ heating engineer for 40 years ,retired now ,and low temperature heating design,I don’t have a clue I will look at heat geek site to find out all about it ,and might look at my system ,great show and no blood was spilled 👍👍👍

This was a great talk

I missed the live battle but the replay is still on KZfaq! Yeeeeessssss!!!

You guys on the heat geek team are very passionate at changing our carbon emissions that really is great to see from people In this industry... I think that's the problem with most installers and plumbers today.. there's no passion

Great to hear the conversation. One major thing that's been missed is the combination of solar PV plus battery powering the ASHP. With that you can effectively go off grid most of the year with the summer surplus charging your EV so you can "drive on sunshine", with cheap rate electricity supplementing the ASHP in winter. The running cost saving is huge and very green.

Keep up the conversations. The problem can only be solved through collaboration.

Great video and lots of info. Still not sold on the idea. Moving into a house that is 20 years old, wanted to replace the original boiler which has a water tank as well, with a heat pump but with all the issues and that this new tech cant give instant heat like a combine boiler.

totally agree with Roger - we do need an independent energy policy, I'm fortunate enough to now own a us home as well with duel citizenship, i have gone from oil heating to a heat pump, into a new European style home, right now the us are currently 10 years behind the uk in insulation and heating in general, even with the green push with off grid propane being the only alternative we went down the heat pump route, (granted the building is not finished at this time but is insulated to 20mm - this will be supplemented this year) even with the underfloor piped heating, the building still felt cold (granted it did fall to -14c) but with the home even with a multi split twin 28000 btu equivalent it still ran on the direct electric heating bypass every time it froze over (and went into a defrost cycle) the energy used even with a cheaper rate totaled 1200 dollars in electric, no one can afford that sort of electric usage. my uk 4 bed home based on this experience (and nothing to do with the pain in the ass protestors) insulated, insulated, insulated, 250mm externally, 25mm internally on external walls, 300mm in the loft, the property had what must have been the last oven vent regular installed in the 80's i now have a 25kw system boiler, that is supplemented with pv in the roof heating a 250 liter A rated tank, that again was extra insulated right now because the insulation (including two room heat exchanger vents) the heating is Off, the PV has heated the tank even from half empty ever since march by its self in the day with twin solar diverters. everyone talks about 3.5 SOc but the fact is the cost of that electric is rising to ridiculous levels, PV isn';t the way , there is this misconception that 6-8 panels can cover your energy usage, sure in summer with a 8kwh battery its great, but forget about it in winter my 10kw us install just generated 1,3 kwh in a day in december, all these heat pump installs just don't make clear just how much energy is being used even with a 3 cop rating your still looking at £anywhere from 700-900 pounds to run each year. not to mention the fact that the majority of 80's or older houses just still don't have underfloor or even correctly sized rads its not just social housing that needs upgrading, if anyone is thinking of direct electric heating or hot water boilers forget it, even with off peak rates it will cost an absolute fortune. we cannot have a repeat of the nibe incident with our future, i still strongly feel there will be mix of hydrogen into the network to SUPLMENT a change, but what that future is is not and SHOULD NOT be heat pumps alone. and why I still like a direct gas equivelent, no one is talking about with hydrogen your usage goes up to old gen boilers due to it being less efficient to current gas

Great videos - thanks. Can you give any more details on the COP estimate being enforceable? If your installer stops responding what’s the next step? Who would help enforce it? Many thanks.

Great conversation both have great points

Great video i love the way the heating design is going for the better I am dead passionate about trying to save customers money on heating bills. Could do with some advice going to fit a Worcester boiler for a customer the system has two zones one for rads and other for underfloor heating. Im unsure on what would be the best stats to fit would need to be rf to save on disruption and how to go weather comp or load comp any help would be much appreciated. Thanks 😊

Enjoying watching both your channels - especially liked Roger's video on the different sources of Heat (explained in simple terms) even though the theory was familiar, the practical applications to heating a home were of interest. Having looked into getting a heat pump for my flat, I rapidly came to the conclusion that I'd need to sort out the insulation & air-tightness first, and have gone for a cheap portable heat pump as a temporary replacement/supplement for my 40+ year (and still going strong) fan heater. Unfortunately, finding a builder with experience of internal wall insulation, using more eco-friendly methods than spray polystyrene, in a remote area, is proving difficult. Perhaps this is a set of training to be added to the Heat Geek's repertoire & supplier map?

Awesome debate some good points by both sides. I’ve just started a self build but on the fence on which way to go but definitely leaning towards a heat pump considering a new build should be very efficient and well insulated

Bloody exelent! Brilliant discussion. You both need to lobby our directionless/bent government.

I live in a flat without central heating. I have energy efficient electric radiators and an energy efficient immersion heater on an eco 7 tariff for my hot water. Although you are correct that it could be swapped out for an electric shower and immersion taps, however I’m unsure which would be more energy efficient and better for your bills.

Well lads great video very insightful and good to see a decent honest open debate handled with maturity and mutual respect 🙏. Quick question though for a new build would u recommend ground source or air source heat pump and if so what manufacturer?? I know it all depends in the design and the installation too but just as you are the professionals I would greatly appreciate your thoughts. Great channel lads and keep up the fine work 👏 👍

Hi great video, was wondering if like me have a heat pump tumble dryer ,is the air source heat pump working on the same principle, only saying as before purchasing my heat pump tumble dryer ,I had the standard condenser type , and that machine was brilliant,quick drying ok not the cheapest thing to run , but did a great job , now with the heat pump tumble dryer , I would almost say it takes double the time ,don’t think it’s any cheaper to run ,all I say thank god for all the sunny days to hang out the washing , but my main point is this day an ages we don’t want to wait hours for something to dry ,tbh I know it sounds crazy but kind of lost faith with using the heat pump tumble dryer ,it’s quite a simple appliance,but just not efficient.

Great interview.

Just found these videos as ive recently had a quote for a heat pump install and very undecided to make a decision based on savings/cost to install ect too many variables

Well done! A civilised discussion.

I have a condensing system boiler that was fitted in 2006 with a megaflo cylinder. After watching yours and SB videos I have upgraded my loft insulation, having new doors and windows and upgrading all my rads to type 21 & 22. If I go down the heat pump route, how do I heat my hot water? Do I lose the megaflo? I also have solar panels with a sun system that takes the excess produced power and diverts it to the immersion in the cylinder. It works well apart from when it isn’t sunny obviously. I am currently also fitting the Drayton Wiser system.

Offtopic question, would the internal air-water heatpump unit be possible to put under stairs horizontally instead of verticaly on the wall?

Enjoyed this gents

i have just followed up from the first video on skill builder and really enjoyed both videos's. We will be starting our new build soon hopefully (after a long wait between covid and hardship with the planning office) but i am back and forth between sticking with oil heating of an air to water heat pump. What type of system to you recommend for a new A rated house that is 2800 square foot. If i could i would put in as much insulation as possible and install solar panels, but the way things are now i doubt i can afford the astronomicle prices of materials. I am just worried that a heat pump will not be as good as i am hoping it will be. and i have subscribed cheers lads.

Brilliant. Every Government minister should be forced to ignore their lobbyists, watch this video and sit down with the pair of you. What's plain to me is that you both care passionately about the subject, and you have the common ground that you want what's best for your customers and the planet.

Excellent very real. Do you offer a fact sheet summary on best advice for settings and such like on a modern boiler with gas central heating and dual fuel gas and electric hot water boiler?

Interesting to hear your thoughts on infrared heaters and electric boilers, my biggest concern with a heat pump is the running costs and that you can’t benefit from cheap nighttime electric if you’re running it during the day. Because of that I’ve been looking at things like the ZEB which you can charge up at night and take the heat out during the day. I appreciate it is not as efficient as a heat pump but when you can still get electricity at 4.5p per kw at night it must be cheaper to run than a heat pump.

Loved the exchange

great conversation

Great video. Does plastic harbour bacteria? I always thought due to its smoothness internally It didn't harbour batceria unlike the roughness in copper. Anyone know??

Heat geeks, have helped me loads, with saving money with our ground source! People mess with them and don’t understand anything (like I did) 😂

Great discussion! I do think Roger's statement about heat pumps only having a marginal carbon benefit should have been more rebuffed though, as he's still repeating it and it seems a core part of his hesitation towards heat pumps. The embodied carbon in a heat pump is only 4% of the lifetime operational emissions of a gas boiler, so you could replace your heat pump every couple of years and it would still be better! I did try and post a link to the source, but I think youtube then thought the comment was spam.