I disagree. The healing portion of skullflame or the chestpiece is chance on hit. If you are rarely getting hit then a 3% chance on hit to heal yourself becomes way lower than 3%... It definitely would be better to just use a level 70 shield ay that point.

@@Ebbnflow sure and you can disagree all you want, youre entitled to your opinion. However, you, merely disagreeing based on a faulty test sample setting, paired with stipulations as a result does not, and should not disprove, 1 and a half years of facts from the biggest paladin community. I do see your point though. And it would be true if paladins would be able to stack dodge and parry to massive amounts. However a Blocked Hit is still a Hit, it is just a mitigated hit. As such SFS and Chance on Being hit effects should still work. Atleast until you start being able to stack significant Block Value to completely remove damage taken from hits, at which point its, well yes. Rather useless xD, but that wont happen for the majority of TBC, especially if your pala alt is just for farming gold. If your pala is your main and u have access to raid gear then it happens faster. Also, i also see your point about SFS getting overhyped. And I agree. It is thrown way out of proportion and it is very very expensive right now. Its going to be cheaper in TBC for sure with all the paladins farming strat and scholo. I do wish that influential people like your self would put in just a little more work before you share information to, hopefully avoid, sharing inconclusive and inaccurate information. Tldr. Get a SFS if you feel you need it for healing and survival purposes, it is still really good and only becomes better for the content it is relevant for with every point of spellpower. However, reconsider buying it at this moment in time, it is overinflated and will most likely be cheaper in TBC (pending gold inflation impacts), but it isnt useless.

@@MiloLexau I do value your posts, but the clam that I should put in more work before posting does diminish the effort on my end a bit. I read all the old posts on wowhead and alakazam, as well as old archived forum posts to check that my emulation data wasn't faulty. It seemed the the consensus was that skullflame shields value fell off once access to sporgarr shield was made available. I do try my best to research my videos and I will say that your comments are valued and it does make me faulter a bit on weither I am correct or not. I will do some more digging and testing today and if I am wrong I definitely will update any info. I'm going to pin our message at the top so people can see that I might not be 100% correct at this time.

i still have a few question to you(@Yunojelly and @Ebbnflow) about both shields: 1. spellpower: how does each stack with spellpower? is it an 1:1 value? Does sporegarr shield get it on top of the whole poison stack or each tick(like diamond flask with healpower)? 2. how are the values of both items tested? which gear is used with which statfocus? focussing on different stats can have different advantages on other sides. 3. how long does the fights go? Sporegarr cant stack above 5, so beyond that it only refreshes the cd. Does it refresh the dmg counter as well like moonfirerecast in classic? 4. are there maybe situations in which each of them is best so that you might use both in the end if you rly want to minmax (and thus get bigger pulls)? 5. can you maybe show some dps and real procrates from the shields considering different mitigationchance and enemielvl? 6. where do your data come from? does tbc classic react the same way as the private server? 7. How much "better"/"worse" is each shield? are we talking about 4dps/mob or far more? and how much mobs do you assume to pull together (varies on gear ofc)? I think you both argue on different assumptions of gear and maybe playstyle as well(though you didnt focus on it).

@@Ebbnflow And I value and enjoy your videos and content!. I want to apologize if I came off as aggressive or any of the sort. I wasn't aware of any work you had done that went un-mentioned for this video. Showcasing the shield from private server footage can, and in most cases, do give people the wrong idea, as chances are pserver data far way off from retail data, which is what I was responding to and with, respectively. Quite a bit of people are using private server data to serve as factual assumptions for retail functionalities and this unfortunately means that it can be interpreted as slightly disingenuous. Additionally, while many comments on those ancient sites have proven to be true, there are also MANY comments that are made from people making up claims based on "I think this is how it works", which is not exclusive to just Skullflame Shield, so its always a good idea to er on the side of skepticism, even when referring to these old platforms. One thing is for certain, the Beta can't come fast enough!

The ring is trash, retri aura is trash too, they dont proc because you dont get hit and should not get hit. They proc in the occasion a mobs melee ability reaches you, thats 700 dmg you take in strath and you can only take 30 max, maximize sp power and block rating thats how we did it back in the days thats how it is on all privates, and thats how it will be.

Oh its great if you are a lower level, or you don't have much mitigation. Just saying for a paladin aoe farming it is not good at all.

@@Ebbnflow from my understanding the spellpower scaling on the lifesteal proc is nerfed pretty bad too. Its great for my classic shaman but I won't worry about getting one for my pally in tbc

@@nathaneldridge157 The way reboudt works changes so even if you take a hit you won't for long. If you just have block rating/block value you jus tbecome immune to the damage anyhow. A better option would be getting something that can heal you in other ways since well.. you're immune to melee attacks..

Sfk? Thats cute bro, except in tbc we talking about strath scholo+, thats like aoe tanking, farming mara or ST in classic, which gets you smashed because classic pala tank gear is total trash with zero avoidance, even the warrior one is not good enough.

@@MrFree-vj8qj i mean I'm on shaman in vanilla classic soooooo

it kinda procs all the time tho, not true ^^

I'm not sure anyone ever claimed Skullflame was good for tanking. It's a boosting shield, plain and simple.

@@jonathanwynne6925 Nor am I, just saying your natural gear progression in TBC phases out the viability of SFS

@@FuzevSponge If you're a paladin main, yes. If your paladin is your boosting alt, not necessarily.

@@jonathanwynne6925 that is somewhat true I agree. All really depends if the spell power scaling sticks on the lifesteal in Classic TBC, cos I believe it didn't in original tbc

@@FuzevSponge I've heard it's still 1:1 but I guess we'll see in the beta maybe.

In Classic right now it is pretty dang good with pally T2 having a damage and healing component and there being no other real options plus for SM/Stonks force of will reduces your damage taken significantly, 4 minute stonks clears are poggers. If T2 had tank stats on it instead of MP5/Sprit/Resistances you'd have a good idea of what it'd be like in TBC. In TBC, you will have more SP, but not 3 or 4x as much. you'll have at best 1.5x. Look at the righteous dungeon set for example, the set only has 110 SP on it compared to the 147 sp from T2 (counting the 5 piece bonus) for the same 5 items and you wont even wear all 5 parts of the righteous set or the T5 set that has 160 sp. Could you have a completely separate boosting set, maybe, but why bother if both have the same results. You will be 10000% more successful if you stack mitigation so you can survive 100+ mobs hitting you, bring them all to the same spot and kill them with consecration. You will never 1 pull strat with SFS and DFB as you will die long before the healing becomes useful. It is FAR better to only take 2000 damage and heal for 0 than to take 9k damage and heal for 6k (only an example, strat 1 pull isn't doable without figurine of the colossus). At the end of the day, boosting is a service and farming is about efficiency. You need to get everything to the kill spot and kill it fairly easily. Don't forget to put on your Libram of eternal rest (+47 consecration damage). Can't wait for TBC so we can test it all out.

It's most definitely used for its flame proc! Cleared SM on beta several times, and the proc is 3d dmg ability. Insane Skullflame lets me survive while pulling entire instances, even mara with better gear with the health steal and proc.

@@logic9436 cleared SM at what lv, def wasnt at 70

@@Drevilkitteh lmao pala t2 is a total joke with zero avoidance thats what you'd get smashed in mara or ST. Tbc prot is a different world my man. You get avoidance and sp from your tbc gear, the avoidance easily makes you immune to all AA. On hit effects will proc rarely enough that they are most of the time almost useless. We never use retri aura in tbc for example, it just doesnt proc and thats a good thing

Yea, idiots like this vid made ppl miss out. Now they are 1.3-1.5k ea on EU/US servers after proven viable and way better then the 62 shield. Ebbnflw is a effin idiot

Shullflame shield procs when you get hit so doing this in RFC is super biased. you get hit in SM and mara and black morass lol so its BIS there

Right now in classic with a few trinkets/gluth neck, its easy to hit an unbuffed block chance of 20%+ with a BV over 125. SM can already be done in T2, DFB and SFS and in this case it is worth using those items because we have no other options. In TBC however, you will have actual prot pally tanking gear with block value/rating, defense, SP, etc. There is no reason to carry around and use items you don't need and you won't need a baby 500 heal when you're taking half the hits you are now. SFS is very over hyped and will be easily outperformed by high level blue dungeon shields with a feliron spike.

Yeah I'm not sure he knows what he's talking about here, he just made a video cause he was annoyed at the sudden jump in price. At least he admitted he could be wrong in the pinned comment. Skullflame with as much spellpower as possible and no mitigation stats is the way to go in classic, the pre-patch, and for a while in TBC until you can get colossus.

When you are tbc geared it rarely procs because you have real tanking gear and 100% avoidance, bv is 400+ and you take zero damage, unlike classic t2 which is a total joke, sure it procs sfs but you are getting smashed and sm and stocks is where you belong, in tbc you farm strath, and thats like st or mara in classic which you cant

Nerfed I think

@@nathancasey7712 yeah was patched out, and it seems bizz are going with 2.4.3 class changes

@@imwivstuipid It was not nerfed in TBC... The spellpower scaling worked well into WotLK. Just check the wowhead comment history. I'm fairly certain the shield will be great for farming since healing > AoE damage in most cases. A paladin will get enough damage out anyways if he can survive for long enough.

A full block doesn't count as a hit sadly

+1 this

He's using the t6 lightbringer set from the looks of it

Yes this would be interesting considering crafting this

it is possible, but I was reading old posts from true TBC client and everyone says the Sporegarr shield is much better overall.

Players nowadays are way more intelligent and skilled than back in the day !

Its great at 60 to boost up in stonks and SM. Not so good boosting @70 when you're getting hit less and absolutely worthless for strat farming/boosting.

You could pay 2k gold, do stocks boost at 3 hours a day, and in a week, you would have 2560 gold or so. It's not a bad investment for some. Only issue is it needs to be the last piece of gear on a long list of gear including: Demonforge Armor, Force of Will, Uther's Strength, 5 piece T2, and ZG revered so you can get the 2 hour speed potion.

@@lobsterfork can you still use pots of zanza at level 70?

@@golagiswatchingyou2966 No, I am talking about before TBC. I have no idea if you can use Zansa at 70. I bought a bunch of bijou just in case.

@@lobsterfork ahhh yeah that could work, easy gold for sure.

@@golagiswatchingyou2966 yeah sorry, you might be confused. You were saying not to spend so much gold on the skullflame. I agree, but even if you did. If the skullflame is the last piece of gear you need to sell stocksboost, the 2000 gold would spend could be back + and extra 560 gold within a week. Stocksboost pay 360 for 3 hours of boosting, spread out over a 24 hour period. That’s all =D

The scaling was patched out in TBC, and blizz are going with 2.4.3 patch so highly unlikely it'll be in there. Also people don't realise aoe farming in tbc is EZ PZ all you need is dungeon blues and the special trinket

@@imwivstuipid The scaling was not patched out. You can read the wowhead comments, it was still scaling at least into wotlk.

Only if you gather with your back to the mob, you should be strafe jumping for mitigation.

@@Ebbnflow But again we're talking about two different schools of thought. Everything you said is correct when stacking mitigation because things cant hit you hence why chance on hit items not working as well. However, if you went the other direction and stacked spell power and chance on hit items like Skullflame Shield you'd see that pull ahead because now you're being hit more.

@@Rational_Driver its possible! However you still have a lot of mitigation just with your defense rating at 70, even when youre naked you dodge and get missed often. But SFS could have a place, just when it comes down to a 2k gold shield or a shield that requires you to get honored the gold definitely has to be considered!

@@Ebbnflow Most definitely. In TBC, I would consider skull flame a luxury item. I've been using it all of classic with my T2 set and it's nice

In TBC, a 500 ish heal isn't worth ignoring all of the gear in TBC for. In SM or lower you do not need the healing and if for some reason you do, that is what Figurine of the colossus is for (the 2 minute CD heal on block trinket). You will take significantly less damage just wearing your straight up tanking gear than the shield will ever heal you for and the damage is garbage anyway.

@@Drevilkitteh wrong lol

You should always be pulling from strafe but SM will become the new Stocks in terms of difficulty aka piss easy. In SM or lower you wont need the sustain as you won't be getting hit as often or for as much and will have nearly triple the health pool. The 500 ish heal is a drop of water in the ocean. If you really need sustain, put your big boy pants on and hit your trinket.

@@Drevilkitteh yeah i suppose with ideal play the shield def has an extremely niche use

Yeah the proc does happen quite often without mitigation.

@@Ebbnflow so its not useless then? just dont stack as much mitigation

@@solidusraiden2502 not how that works sadly :(

No, but I will have a paladin alt for boosting/gold farming!

@@Ebbnflow same here and a druid for main

Good point, you can see how often it procs in the vid.

@@dirtbagmoto right which is basically 0 procs. 3% proc chance on hit, yet you almost never get hit.

@@Ebbnflow You get hit all the time as prot paladin, though. Since blocking counts as being hit. That's how the shield behaves on Classic. Did they change it in TBC? Or is it just a scuffed test server?

@@HatsonFGC A full block does not count as a hit.

@@Ebbnflow How much dmg do you block for in that gear you had with Skullflame on?

Thanks for the feedback, hope the flipping goes well!

​@@Ebbnflow Provided it stays unfixed, IE: 1 to 1, it's working out very well. Also , and I would love a dialogue with you, I think you your argument is erroneous. I do 1 pull stocks boost at level 60 on classic. I don't get hit 95% of the time, but I still need the shields proc to ever hope to one pull that instance. That property of the shield is not going away for TBC, either. It makes sense at first glance, "I am not being hit so what good is a on hit proc", but you are being hit and quite often if you are doing massive pulls. This shield in conjunction with Demon Forged Breast Plate and Uther's Light, in combination with being level 70 and having 500-600 spell power is going to make -- what I predict -- an absolutely slayer of a build for Strat boosting. Probably, the best Strat boost that can boosted, potentially. That being said, I will happily come back to this comment once I get the build. I will do the other build too. 1 more thing, I never actually bought the extra skullflame. I needed gold for my GDKP's to get Styleens, which I still don't have.

It makes perfect sense if you have experience with paladins. This was my experience with skull flame vs argent defender shield (whichever one blocks % more based on chance on being hit)

haha, you're not wrong

Right but even as ret and holy your natural defenses at 70 make it much less effective, but again thats just my opinion. If you go with skullflame I wish you plenty of procs and a good cost on it!! I honestly hope anyone who has it finds it super valuable, just think the price people are selling it for is pretty steep!

@@Ebbnflow I can agree on that. I bought some for 120-150g in phase 3 and sold em for 700g in phase 6. Its stupidly overpriced at the moment. You should make another video testing the sfs in stratholme with the holy/ret build and see if that is viable. Thats why I bought mines atleast.. On paper it looks like that is going to be the meta.

That was patched out in tbc, and Blizz are going with the 2.4.3 patch so highly unlikely that'll be in it

Which mobs did you farm with this and how many mobs were on you?

right but you get 0 of that if you get 0 procs.

@@Ebbnflow afaik you go into classic dungeons like LBRS where you can get a hit as lvl 70. Your block absorbs all the dmg and if you take dmg, its negated by the heal of skulflame and Demon Forged Breastplate.

@Mex it was patched out in tbc, and blizz are going with 2.4.3 patch so probs not in there

Most of these 'tests' have been done on broken ass Pservers, its hilarious.

Just like aoe farm mages you get int>spell power for aoe pally farming there will be a aoe BiS set.

Why would you not run full mitigation.. Mitigation means larger pulls, and faster runs

@@Ebbnflow because if you get hit more you will deal more passive damage to mobs QUESTIONMARK?!?!?

Take a look at all tbc paladin threads or discord servers and they all are in agreement that SFS is not better than PLG. Good luck in TBC though, hope SFS performs well for you!

@@Ebbnflow link pls with data that shows skullflame getting out preformed in 1 pull sm

for boosting low lvl dungeons skullflames out preforms by alot. SFS is a viable option and should be something all pallies pickup for low lvl dungeon boosting for gold. Strat/scholo is where spore becomes the better option strictly because the pulls are alot smaller and dont take as long to gather up.

Rejuv gem is still great until black temple.

There are definitely pieces from vanilla which are BiS well into TBC raiding content.. Rejuv gem being one of them, like HYDRAdude said it's basicaly bis until t6 for most healers, then there's the AQ shield from heals trinket which is also BIS for a very long time for paladins for example, and there are other pieces. I mean, yeah, sure, you'll be swapping most of your t3 by late t4/early t5, but there are some exceptions because during vanilla Blizz didn't have a particularly great grasp on itemization just yet.

Half the beta is a broken buggy mess. What exactly has been shown to be "demonstrably false"?

@@Drevilkitteh that skullflame is useless. Everything that has been tested so far in beta shows it is still a monster shield for boosting and aoe farming.

@@thedukeoftbc Beta caps at 64 so.... you're missing 6 levels and the far superior gear coming from dungeons and heroics. So far the damage isn't scaling in beta BUT half the shit in beta is super broken.

@@Drevilkitteh The drain life from Skullflame and Demon forge are scaling as they should, 100% and 40%, in the beta. Which is what matters, not the flamestrike from Skullflame.

@@thedukeoftbc if they scale as we have right now then they won't be needed for boosting. I use them both now to boost sm/stocks. With double or triple the HP, prot pally tanking gear (basically T2 with tank stats) and the amount of block dodge party miss etc, the 500 ish heal from SFS will be unnecessary. Any shield with high stam and block value would prevent enough damage and your figurine of the colossus would heal you more than enough. I got my sfs for 200 6 mos ago. If someone doesn't have it already, save your gold and get something that will do the same job much much cheaper.

3 years ago, on the ptr so add-ons were all messed up, tbc content. Get over yourself. No idea why'd you be even watching this.

I do a lot of research into my topics by reading archived forum posts and using wowhead posts from back during TBC.

@@Ebbnflow but you did test this on private servers

And youre level 60. TBC changes things, feel free to check any paladin discord. Shields are selling for 600g now on my server. People on the beta have been able to test things and have seen that skullflame is overhyped. But thanks for the kind message.