😄 "Don't hate the player, hate the game! Who's the player here, you or Dr. Fung? Just kidding

Thank you for the video!

I know this is an old video but I need to ask you a question. I recently started an extended fast, recently diagnosed with diabetes, a1c was 7.3. I have been doing keto for a few months, not really enjoying it so I decided to do a long fast, I have in the past with no problems (before diabetes). I am not on medications as of right now. My blood sugar had been in the high 70s for the majority of the day, but as I approached the 96th hour, I started feeling extremely light and dizzy, tired, despite having had plenty of salt. I checked my blood sugar and it had dropped to 65 and I ended the fast. From what everyone is saying this should not have happened. Why did this happen to me? Does this mean my metabolism is just too broken? I really would like some answers. Thanks.

@@ZothiquenessI did TMAD for 3-week stints- not nearly the fasting of NINETY-SIX hours, but my bg got into the 60's multiple times. I am not surprised it dropped to 65 after 96 hours. It's possible it would not have continued to drop. Were you wearing a cgm? In any case, although tons of people are doing it, going more than 72 hours water fasting without supervision I have read is considered risky. Good luck, though with lower A1c. I guess the keto is new too? I couldn't pull it off. See Dr. Roy Taylor for an alternative, though no party. If I got an official diagnosis- I am still in normal range, but it had been rising, so I've been browsing- I'd do his protocol before trying keto.

​@@Zothiqueness Hi. A doctor here. Mainstay for reversing insulin resistance is weight loss, be it through fasting, keto, plant based or portion control, the goal is achieving calorie restriction, and should be done in a way most comfortable to you and to which you can stick to for a longer term. Prolonged fasting may be a quick approach but may not be the best approach given it cannot be sustained. Switching to intermittent fasting may be a viable tool for you given it is just a less severe form of fasting. Sugar less than 70 is classified as Stage 1 hypoglycemia with only weakness and other mild symptoms. But since you had dizziness at 65, it is a little worrisome. I would advise against a longer fast. It's best if you stick to less severe forms of calorie restriction. No need to worry about a broken metabolism or anything.

Do you know what he'd recommend, then?

When you eat less calories, your body will trigger also lower metabolism rate. So if later and you eat the same amount before you start cutting calories, you will gain the weight back. When you fast, you will allow the body to burn fat. When you eat, you are to eat good (whole) food, food that allows you to be satiated and not empty calories like a brownie.

@@Physionic It seems you are attempting to shift the goal post.

@@Physionic Obviously he recommends IF and eating very few carbs. I have personally found that by eating 20g of carbs a day and only eating in a six hour window I have lost nearly 30lbs and kept it off for over a year, despite eating about 600-700 calories more than I did on my previous diet that was high carb, low fat. The only way I ever lost weight before IF and keto was by restricting calories to below 1000 a day and it was unsustainable because I was constantly hungry.

Yes, I have seen other videos where Dr. Fung mentions that yes cutting calories does work to a certain extent, but he's skeptical that cutting calories alone will work long term for most people because of the change in metabolism it produces and the effort involved. He generally promotes intermittent fasting and low carb diet but not calorie counting. But indirectly he does encourage people to cut calories sometimes because he encourages people who experience weight loss plateaus to lengthen their fast over time, which at some point is going to cut calories, especially once you get into 24 hr or longer fasts. Not to mention the foods that people usually overeat contain carbs. If you're truly sticking to a low carb diet you will likely eat less calories without even thinking about it.

I'm really glad your wife is doing better, ChengYC. His advice is overall solid. Thanks!

Understandable, but autophagy doesn't always prevent cancer, either.

@@Physionic certainly. But he is saying it helps. There are many reasons why cancer can occur. Dr Fung I feel is a pretty level headed doctor

@@Physionic Sure, but you could also say that our immune system does not always prevent cancer. Even though our immune system is actually one of the biggest factors in preventing cancer. Just because autophagy wont always prevent cancer does not mean it's 'useless' or what ever point you seem to try to get across.

Also, it’s not just autophagy that can bring on healing. There are so many factors that can prevent healing, such as emotional trauma, stress, diet, environmental stressors, emotions, etc.

That is correct. He does not say you won't lose weight with CICO. The body adapts and you have to cut more calories. I would Recommend Dr Jason Fung to anyone and recommend his book to people. The Obesity Code

@@ianfraser2009 Same applies to exercise. That is why I only do cardio on fasting days. Otherwise it's just another form of calorie cutting.

@@LTPottenger I do weight training when I'm fasting. Get your body to drop insulin levels and you start to tap into your fat for energy. I would Recommend his book. Thanks for your reply.

@@LTPottenger I would Recommend you check out Benjamin Bikman PhD. Here is a link m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bZibo8V7trXNeKs.html&feature=share

Every diet has a high failure rate, some folks have done fine with calorie restriction, many don't. Not many can succeed at fasting. Me, I eat a low fat high carb diet and have a BMI of 23. I eat allot of food. 😁

That's be fun. I have my doubts he'd be interested, but I'd be open to having a discussion with him.

@@Physionic ask him

That seems to be the fair way. One on one. Give him a chance to react to your criticism. It's not scientific but everyone I've known that tried calorie restriction failed. I remember someone saying that is why the TV show Biggest Losers never have a reunion show.

Because he is theorist who reads books and Dr. Fung is a clinician who treats thousands of patients. Would be a waste of time for all.

@@fareshajjar1208 Dr. Fung is CURRENTLY practicing the principle. Real patients, real result! I can't agree with you more!!! Tks.

Thanks, Jose. I appreciate the balanced approach you have.

Thanks, WH! I'll admit, these type of videos also gain more traction, so its enticing, but I try to be fair in my critiques.

@@Physionic Uninformed though, and taking things out of context is not fair critique. Epic fail on your critiques. As a losing strategy it has been proven over and over again that decreasing calories just isn't effective for the big majority of people. The reason is that people forget that insulin goes down while they sleep because they are not eating, so if they reduce calories they can lose weight then, or lose water weight during the day because of exercise. The body won't allow to use the storage unless your insulin is reduced. If your foods are low glycemic you can lose some weight during the day too because your insulin will be relatively lower, also if you are not eating all the time if course, but nothing will be as potent and efficient as straight up fasting because your body will use the storage. So thermodynamics never gets contradicted here, as you claim, you will still breath out the fat, but whether is what you just ate, or your storage, depends of your insulin. About autophagy, if bone broth gives you protein it gives you energy so it will reduce autophagy, so Dr. Fun us correct there too, plus it has been proven that amino acids directly trigger mTOR, so Dr. Fung is correct again. And about the body being smart searching for useless protein it has been empirically proven with visual evidence over and over again of people losing weight while triggering gluconeogenesis that they end up without loose skin, as opposed of people doing dirty fasting or reducing calories without triggering gluconeogenesis that end up with significant more loose skin. I lost a skin tag I had on my underarm all my life the first time I did a prolonged fast, so if that isn't the body being specific, then I don't know what is, scar tissue, stretch marks, disappearing on people fasting, the evidence is overwhelming. You need to make a video apologizing for how out of context you took everything on this video, and the things you were misleading people on.

I cannot make any coherent sense of your remark.

That’s a good way to put it, Terry. I agree we eat too much and too often. Keto is a great way to go.

@@Physionic Dr. Fung talks about his patients failures in general terms. Cutting calories does work but if you never get truly fat adapted you never solve the problem. Fasting is the best tool to cross this barrier, I tried beer for years but unfortunately it never worked. The problem with fasting is the pharmaceutical, fast and processed food industries don't make anything off it. Giving a type 2 diabetic insulin is like giving an alcoholic a bottle of whiskey. You just take the sugar and stuff it into your eyes and small blood vessels killing everything slowly while making the patient more obese. They never mention 93% of all people hospitalized with coronavirus are obese while nearly everyone who has symptoms has high insulin resistance and or a fatty liver. Insulin somehow negatively effects the lymphatic and immune systems. It's also strange how people like Republicans who live a great distance from the oceans seem to have mineral deficiencies from iodine, potassium, magnesium, chromium and zine not to mention omega 3's and many B vitamins if not most of them. We can talk about this another day. Don't take Dr. Fung literally when he's talking in general terms, he's a good man who is doing what doctors are supposed to do, he's saving lives including mine. Take care

I've heard that a few times, but the real culprit is dieting without having long term behavior changes. I wouldn't deny that most people regain the weight they took off from dieting, but I'd maintain that it's because they don't have a sustainable way of going about their weight loss. Ultimately, all nutrition styles that cause weight loss necessitate some form of calorie restriction, if its measured or not. I also wouldn't deny that fasting and/or carnivore can be highly effective - sometimes more effective at long term weight loss, but I'd still argue it's because of calorie restriction and having a simpler plan for maintaining that weight loss after the weight loss is achieved. Not to pit n=1 against n=1, but I've had an easy time changing my weight by counting calories, and I've helped others do the same (along with other nutrition strategies), and am part of several groups with literally tens of thousands of people who have lost weight by counting calories (and maintained it for years). It's not the best for everyone, I acknowledge that, but I do think calorie restriction is often confused with dieting, when there are subtle differences that make one 100% successful and the other, as you mentioned, a far cry from successful. Glad you're having success - thanks for chiming in, Shannon.

Cancer. Was it Dr. Fung who said, just one 7 day fast a year can help prevent cancer? And what about Jean-Jacques Trochon? He eliminated his cancer via fasting. I agree that not all cancers can or will respond to fasting, but surely some must? It’s not just autophagy occurring, right, there’s apoptosis.

@@Physionic Thanks for all your careful work for us. (I'm a member---I hope that helps get a reply). I don't exactly disagree with your disagreements, except that I think you are perhaps a bit narrow in some of your arguments that he is "wrong." I think Dr. Fung's underlying point, which he skipped over here, is that in general neither calories out nor calories in are independent of each other or of the level of calorie restriction more specifically So while of course if you create a net energy imbalance weight will indeed go up or down, this is not as useful a thought as it might seem at first. The slowdown in BMR in response to a calorie deficit is one example. But so is changes in NEAT. Another example is the (short- and longer-term) response of Ghrelin and other hunger/satiety hormones to calorie restriction. In light of the latter factor, it's true of course that this speaks to long-term behavior, but it also suggests that "will power" is not in itself the answer, at least for most people. Does that make sense to you? Thanks, Andy

Thanks very much, Larry. I appreciate the kind words.

Thank you, Ravi.

Thats certainly a fair critique, but the concept of calories leading to weight loss is correct. Like I mentioned, that ultimately leads to physiological changes that make the process of weight loss more difficult, but the calorie is immune to physiological implications.

Correct. When i listened to his videos, he said the calories in and out is not working for long term. Maybe he said it prior to that statement and he didn't restate it anymore.

What Dr Fung means is real world examples. Intermittent Fasting or low carb is easy for most people. Counting calories and food deprivation is very hard to stick to long term in the real world. that is what he meant but did not explain correctly.

@@Physionic Right but your body doesn't know how to count calories, humans made the concept up for our own understanding. Someone could consume only 1200 calories of brownies everyday and not lose any weight because their insulin would always be high.

@@Physionic when I am fasting I'm consuming zero calories. What's the problem?

Thank you!

Thank you, Rich.

Thanks, excomfan!

Happy to hear it, Minotee.

He is the speaker of his words.

@@Physionic but are all of his words being presented? Does he explain what he means more fully in a segment cut from the whole? I'm not a follower of his but I wonder how much of the conversation is trimmed to fit the required running time.

You bet

Thank you, Steemit. I've enjoyed using fasting, myself. It's a great tool.

I appreciate it - thank you for chiming in!

I like people like you. Thank you.

Thank you, Jonathon - good to see you. Are you referring to this one? www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803033/

Hey CI, I'll try and get to your questions tomorrow. I assume for #3, you mean 4 *grams* of protein?

@@Physionic yes, though the community culture has come to add carbohydrate as a reason, too.

1. Right. 2. Not in an absolute number sense - it is potently stimulated by accumulating AMP, which would mean a pretty drastic decrease in cellular energy. 3. No, and I can say its BS, because of the absolute nature of the number.

@@Physionic Thanks for the reply! I think I'm getting this. :)

Haha, thanks, F4. I appreciate it.

I think this is his study with the experiments www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4493566/

Hey zoopi, I've covered some of Dr. Longo's work on the channel, but I haven't gotten around to the ones on fasting and chemo - I've been meaning to get to them at some point - thanks for the reminder. As for Thomas Seyfriend, I'm not familiar with him. Fortunately, my degree spans over all the disciplines of medicine, and what you've introduced is extremely interesting to me. My current research is looking at mitochondrial autophagy. I'm absolutely curious to learn more on that idea, so I'll read into the review you supplied - I really appreciate it!

@@Physionic Longo is top-quality and credibility. He's actually a serious scientist.

Yes, that's the probnlem with science. It doesn't always give us the answers we want. No worries though, there are always silver-tongued quacks and others who will tell us what we want to hear.

Thanks for chiming in, Greg. I’m glad to hear he’s become more nuanced. I appreciate that in a professional.

He never said that cancer would be cured by fasting. In Cancer Code he is quite clear. His book was a fascinating read by the way.

Thanks, Bruce. Bone broth might reduce autophagy slightly, but I'm sure you had it going at 90% or more throughout your fast, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks, Jeffrey, I appreciate it - that's the aim. IGF is a growth stimulus, but the stimulus is likely insufficient to generate growth in a catabolic environment. IGF could bind its receptor and send its signal into the cell, but protein synthesis could be terminated due to lack of energy or amino acid availability. Also, tumors create their own microenvironments that are different from the rest of the body (in certain respects), so that could easily play a factor, as well. For example, tumors can recruit immune cells to *specifically* release growth factors - its a devilish process, but it localizes growth signal within the tumor, leaving the rest of the body at low levels. Just a few different situations - I have some videos on most of it, if you're interested. I hope to cover more on the topic in the future!

Sure, if its implemented correctly, I absolutely do.

According to many testimonies online on fasting and cure of cancer, looks like autophagy kills cancer cells too.

Fasting does spare muscle, but it’s not ideal (in some cases detrimental) for muscle growth.

@@Physionic was thinking more for minicut purposes as willpower wise I'm better with shorter harsher periods than longer easier ones. So for example 3 day prolonged fast vs say a week of PSMF?

Wallow28 either one would be fine for muscle retention, unless you’re highly muscular, in which case anything over a few days may be detrimental.

Sure, I don't deny that metabolism slows, but that doesn't change the energy of the calorie, so its still independent of the physiological changes (like metabolism slowing).

according to what you're saying then I'll use his logic. 100 calories of coke vs 100 calories of beef do not burn the same way, even beyond "physics universality" the hormonal effect is much different, does protein not require more energy to burn than sugar? If I need 2k calories a day all other things equal, will my weight stay exactly the same if it all comes from chips, coke and twinkies vs veggies and meat?

Hey William, no. Keep in mind that autophagy isn't a switch that's on or off, its a scale.

From the youtube audio library, not sure of the track name.

I've heard this so many times from people who just don't get it. He can help people and still be incorrect (on his information, not in helping people). It's that simple. Thanks for watching, Chris.

Chris, glad we have you here to correct him with your CAPITAL letters to show EMPHASIS on what you THINK is IMPORTANT. Just like your hero TRUMP.

Completely agree, Bob. Thanks.

Fasting is perfectly fine and can provide benefits.

Wow, i never heard the energy produced from ketones can prevent autophagy!

No doubt long term calorie restriction leads to initial weight loss and that can creep back up over time; however, it isn't much of a revelation to think that if you are on a diet and then stop that diet that you won't revert back to old eating habits. As for the changes in RMR, I'd look into my body set point podcast where I discuss the mechanisms for that. Finally, what's the solution then? Fasting? That always makes me chuckle, because its literally the same thing, just more extreme. You'll lose weight fasting, no doubt, and then what? And also, what does a fast do? It's the most aggressive form of calorie deficit. I think its a good way to go, but people make it out to be the second coming of Christ, haha.

@@Physionic I appreciate the reply. I note that within such my opening observation that the snippet of video you respond to would not fairly be called representative of Fung's position is passed upon, as is my observation of your personal weight loss not being an apples to apples comparison when talking about the morbidly obese who have been largely inactive for decades. To respond to that which you did write: In the same way you don't need a weatherman to tell you when it's raining outside, anyone who goes upon a diet can tell you that things start out great, losing weight hand over fist, then slow, then stop. And that also, such an approach has a catastrophic rate of failure across decades of real world implementation. Not exactly the best hill to die on then. As to your statement that if people go back to their old ways upon diet failure the weight will go back up. Agreed. Especially if done so from a position of lowered overall metabolism. But if that is the argument, why stop there? Why not state that if they had not eaten that way in first place such a situation would never have developed? It's as accurate as your statement and also, just like yours, does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. Now, does fasting? I would not suggest such. Because to do so would be to embrace dogma. That some can point to RCT's in support of such dogma in no way altering real world outcomes when it comes to the implementation of such. After all, according to some, communism is a model of societal perfection...in theory. All diets result in caloric restriction and fasting is indeed the most aggressive of them. Will this deprivation be offset by windows of normal eating when it comes to the physical and psychological? Don't know. Can such an approach work for those for whom food clearly has a psychological dependence? Don't know. Does it offer huge benefits? In term of pronounced results, yep. Is it easy to implement? Arguably the easiest. Are there further health benefits to be had if consuming your cals in a very narrow eating window and fasting outside of such? One of your own vids talks of such. So, the second coming? No. But a viable alternative and under-talked about option when held against prescription which has totally failed in real world application? I would say so, yes. And perhaps that it s the best that can be hoped for when faced with a problem for which no approach has demonstrated long term majority success, or even anything remotely approaching such.

@@vaughanstarr3725 I thoroughly enjoyed and agreed with your comments. The young gentleman in the video might have all the best intentions but let's face it, a better understanding of life, human body, everything around us really, stems not only from the amount of theoretical knowledge found in books, but from being alive long enough to understand how real life works. In other words, we get a better grip with age. If he had the audacity (for lack of a better term) to present himself (a young, lean, active person) as a compelling example for the "almighty" calories in-calories out equation in the face of all those morbidly obese people out there fighting for their life, he is clearly a long way from the said grip. Give him another 20 years or so. And some actual medical practice where he takes his nose off the books and looks at real human patients. Loved your communism analogy. As a concept, it looked great on paper but if one grew up in Romania during Ceausescu's regime like I did, one would have a better understanding of how theoretical concepts don't always apply successfully to real life. No malice intended on the young man here, wishing him the best of luck with growing and learning.

No one I've heard, including Dr Fung, recommends fasting as the only thing you need to do. Different doctors have different emphasis points. But all the respectable ones also talk about cutting out refined sugars, processed foods, and 'vegetable' oils, and they recommend cutting carbs and/or eating whole foods (eat real food!). Fasting is a part of a total scheme for good health.

My pleasure, Foto. I've had my fair share of Dr. Fung fans that have blindly attacked me; the same is true for fans of other people I've fairly critiqued, so although its not necessary, I do poke fun - if I come off as arrogant, that's unfortunate. I can see how calorie counting, itself, may not be feasible for everyone, but ultimately, caloric restriction is an immutable law to weight loss. Right, there are reductions in metabolic rate, but there are techniques for rejuvenating it and continuing down a weight loss period. No doubt a slowing of weight loss can be discouraging, however. Sure thing, I have more on fasting and cancer, if you're interested. Thanks for chiming in!

@@Physionic I see very few comments attacking you. Most were explaining their understanding of calories in and calories out. My understanding is that focusing on calories for weight loss hasn’t worked for many. Restricting calories should work but in practise it hasn’t. It would have been good if you challenged Dr. Fung over issues that ytouy believed to be not true. That would hgave made your interview more credible. Lastly, the statistics over calories diserves explanatioin on the data that were collected.

My pleasure.

Fasting for weight loss works well.

Fasting is a good supplemental weight loss but rapid weight loss can be very easily regained, and some... You don’t need to go full Keto and high fat. 5 months ago I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. I stopped eating: Wheat, gluten, all white carbs, beer, soft drinks, chips/crisps, any processed foods and all processed sugar. I eat tons of fish, green veg, lentils, beans, avocados, salads, nuts, seeds... Some apples, a little banana, papaya, berries... Some butter, goats cheese, Greek yoghurt... Small amount of “brown” non-wheat carbs like brown rice noodles, brown rice, buckwheat, potatoes, yam, sweet potatoes... I have an eating window roughly between 16:00 and 20:00 where I make easy to prepare delicious fresh food! I’ve dropped 11kgs in 5 months and still going...I’m not even doing enough exercise. Hunger is a thing of the past...I feel younger and my blood tests are improving monthly. You don’t need loads of fat, but if you avoid poisonous high sugar carbs, things like olive oil, avocados, olives, butter, yoghurt, goats cheese can be eaten as you like. It’s the unhealthy fats that should be avoided!

Fat is burned in the mitochondria. Weight loss or fat loss? If you want to lose fat, eat clean, low glucose (Your body is required to store fat when insulin is present and it will release fat to burn for energy when insulin is not present.) Also, increase your exercise to (4) 60 nonstop minute zone 2 sessions a week at an intensity that you could hold on a conversation but it would be uncomfortable. Want to lose weight, fast but be aware that it’s not a exponential weight loss.

Agreed, RF. I do think it's a factor to consider that makes fat loss more difficult over time. Although, there is a limit to that reduction. I have content explaining some of those studies.

@@Physionic On this point about hormone reaction to calorie deficits, I have a question. Many note that these changes are quasi-permanent. For example, I've seen studies where even after one year after some discrete weight loss, the ghrelin and other hormonal response to food have not gone back to baseline. I've seen one study where even after four years, some of these hormonals levels (and BMR) are different for someone who arrived at a given weight after substantial. weight loss vs someone who was always at that weight. Do you know if there are any really long-term studies of this? If I lose 40 pounds say (as I did several years ago and mostly kept off), can I hope that over time, the process of normalization of my hormonal responses to food will continue and I will eventually look the same as someone who was always at my current weight , in this regard? Thanks

Thanks, Barry!

My pleasure. The greatest driver of autophagy is complete water fasting. Consumption of any kind decreases autophagic flux relative to fasting.

@@Physionic Jason Fung said that in another video. He said if you want autophagy then only water fast but he's talking to a majority who are looking for weight loss so he addresses that more in the fasting methods.