Yes but how the fuck

@@antoniop._1333 What's nor clear for you?

@@antoniop._1333 It's AWD and the way they made it is really interesting. The engine is still mounted transversely and it's a full time AWD like Quattro in Audi. The way they did it was kinda similar to Quattro in that there is a Torsen differential in the gearbox splitting power between front and rear wheels, with front diff being in the gearbox too and rear getting power through the shaft running inside the center tunnel where the exhaust is in FWD version. And bc it's a geared all time AWD, you can turn it into a RWD car relatively easily.

Thanks!

We are looking for the one to test it 🙂

Shame the 156 q4 is incredibly incredibly rare

156 q4 test please

Here's new test - Alfa Romeo 156 Crosswagon: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mtqklMmL3K2dhJc.html

Thank you! We tried using brakes a few times but it didn't help. Here are the videos: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d7Zpa8x_psjZhn0.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kMeWo5WQrsnLd2Q.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iJdgpZZqm7LFmKM.html

Correct, main difference comes from ESP/TC, however Alfa has torsen C while Audi has torsen B.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I was just wondering which type of Torsen it is on each car but you already answered my question. Grüsse from Switzerland 🇨🇭

@@zj25 Greetings from Poland! 🇵🇱

Hi, Bmw E90 is here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebSSf7JytbHcgIk.html W204 wasn't tested yet, no volunteers...

Center diff is torsen but it looks that it doesn't get any help from traction control system so it is limited to its TBR ratio.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Thanks. It seems like the Audi setup is better when the conditions are not ideal, snow or mud, but Alfa always sends 60% of power to the back and transfer the torque from side to side while cornering which I suppose is better for sporty driving feel. Subjectively those two cars are very different, with Alfa handling and driving much better, no real contest in that regard.

@@BojanBojovic The only advantage of Audi is traction control which works not only side to side but also front to back. Front and rear diffs are open in both cars, Alfa is 60/40 rwd biased so no understeer like 50/50 Audi (which is also nose heavy).

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers you are right but Alfa with 2,4 JTD is also nose heavy for sure with souch big diesel engine 🙂

@@zepter00 Engine may be heavy but it's transversely mounted so it is on the front axle, not ahead of it 🙂

For Audi - I don't know what is the reason for different results. For Alfa - it looks like traction control works only for left/right, not front/rear.

Alfa has torsen c while Audi torsen b.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Yes, this is not the first time, I believe, that we see this.

@@bartomiejhunter Yes, but I don't think that is the problem. A Torsen requires traction control to help with the front to rear torque transfer. The transfer rate is not high enough with the Torsen found in consumer cars. Especially since the Torsen is not a differential that locks itself, even partially.

@@Softroader By the way - did you ever looked inside the Mitsubishi L200 Super Select transmission? I was wondering recently how's RWD mode working there, is it omitting the torsen differential or is it locking it with no connection to the front driveshaft...

Trochę bełkot napisałeś. Kierowca nie da żadnemu torsenowi przyjemność z jazdy .😉

Audi przynajmniej z rolek wyjeżdża, jak na całej osi nie ma trakcji. Alfa stoi w miejscu jak zwykłe RWD na lodzie... chociaż nie.. RWD ze szperą by sobie lepiej poradziło xD Włosi to piękny naród. Zapożyczyli napęd od Niemców ale go zepsuli po swojemu, a alfiarze i tak powiedzą, że jest z duszą i daje przyjemność z jazdy

@@wojciu95 Włosi nie zapożyczyli napędu od Niemców, torsen nie jest ani wynalazkiem, ani własnością Audi. Co więcej - Włosi zastosowali torsena przy silniku ułożonym poprzecznie, Niemcy w takich układach stosują haldexa. Co do samego wyjazdu z rolek pod jedną osią - tu zdecydowanie plus dla Audi za EDL działający pomiędzy osiami, w Alfie działa tylko pomiędzy lewą a prawą stroną.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers no dobra, źle się wyraziłem o zapożyczeniu napędu od Niemców. W zamyśle miałem fakt, że jednak napęd w Audi z tego słynie. W każdym bądź razie w Audi podobny napęd działa lepiej niż IU Makaronów. Fajny film. Dzięki !

@@wojciu95 Dzięki :) W nowszych modelach sytuacja wygląda inaczej, aczkolwiek są to już zupełnie inne napędy: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eK6ciLmTnbrVcYE.html

If all wheels have similar grip - they all spin. If there is major grip difference between the axles or wheels - car will behave like in roller tests.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers й

@@user-je4ix1zk7v ??

Why was 156 way better, any info? As far as I am concerned - it had the same Q4 system.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers The system is the same but the electronics works better on the 156 (the crosswagon has also specific tyres and wheels to perform better offroad)

@@nicolamiriano9150 We'll try to find 156 for the test.

sinceramente quel comportamento sulla 159 soprattutto nella parte in cui i rulli sono sul posteriore è un po' anomalo.

@@nicolamiriano9150 Here's new test - Alfa Romeo 156 Crosswagon: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mtqklMmL3K2dhJc.html

Nie ma tu żadnej tajemnicy ani problemu technicznego. Alfa ma centralny mechanizm różnicowy torsen. Kontrola trakcji - jak wykazał test - działa tylko pomiędzy lewą a prawą stroną, nie ingeruje natomiast na poziomie przód/tył. Torsen bez wspomagania układem hamulcowym (kontrolą trakcji) nie jest w stanie wybrnąć z takiej sytuacji.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers z tym sie totalnie nie zgodze, ze w alfie dziala tylko kontrola trakcji prawo/lewo. Gdyby tak bylo to by zjechala z rolek majac sama tylna lub sama przednia os na rolkach. Ten sam naped jest w audi. Jakims cudem audi sobie poradzilo a alfa nie. Poza tym przelozenie napedu w alfie jest 60/40 wiec nadal nie mozliwe jest, ze kiedy byla przednia os lub tylna os na rolkach to alfa nie zjechala.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers nagram tą sama sytuacje takim samym autem na rolkach i podrzuce linka w komentarzu. Pozdrawiam

@@grzegorzgrzegorzewski4461 Przetestowaliśmy dwa egzemplarze 159, wynik identyczny. Kontrola trakcji działa prawo/lewo i jest skuteczna, jeśli na każdej z osi jedno koło ma przyczepność. Jeśli przyczepność ma tylko jedno koło na jednej osi - kontrola trakcji nie działa wystarczająco skutecznie żeby wyciągnąć auto z takiej sytuacji. W Audi kontrola trakcji działa także przód/tył i tylko dlatego daje radę, ale to nie reguła, starsze modele miały z tym także poważne problemy. Przełożenie 60/40 nie ma tu wielkiego znaczenia jeśli całej osi brakuje przyczepności, tak po prostu działa dyfer.

@Grzegorz Grzegorzewski Zapraszam na test, Rzeszów. Edit: Napisałeś, że _z tym sie totalnie nie zgodze, ze w alfie dziala tylko kontrola trakcji prawo/lewo. Gdyby tak bylo to by zjechala z rolek majac sama tylna lub sama przednia os na rolkach_ . Odwrotnie kolego - gdyby kontrola trakcji działała przód/tył to właśnie zjechała by z rolek, jak Audi.

You already got the answer - IT IS NOT IN ANY REAR WHEEL DRIVE SETUP. It's all wheel drive with torsen center differential. No grip at rear means that only rear is spinning, no grip at front means that only front is spinning, that's how differential works. Study what differential is, study how does that work.

Thanks, greetings from Poland! I don't think there's any problem with Alfa - we tested two cars and they performed exactly the same.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Мислите ли,че е нормално, Алфа да не може да тръгне при 2 задни или предни блокирани колела. Какво 4х4 е това, на никой не му трябва такова. Да сменят висящия лагер и да калиброват вала!!!

@@user-pc5yy4zf7w It's totally normal, that's how torsen diff works.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Алфа не тръгна с 2 колела...това не е 4х4, има проблем с q4

@@user-pc5yy4zf7w There is no problem, this how torsen differential works. Maybe this will help you to understand: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p9hyg9N5zbvIhI0.html

This guy explains it: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o9ipetF2s7rXn30.html

Lancer Evo X: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a9eUZ8ud2dm3ZmQ.html GR Yaris: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b9GFgLGlyNjciHU.html

If only I could find it...

Gdzie robicie testy, bo mam Crosswagona i zastanawiam się czy napęd działa jak w 159 czy inaczej

@@pawemichalak5141 Zasadniczo Rzeszów, ale bywamy w różnych miastach. Skąd jesteś?

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Z pod Babiej Góry, ale pracuję w Krakowie i okolicach. Alfa kupiona specjalnie na zimowe dojazdy;)

@@pawemichalak5141 No to w Krakowie można się spotkać 🙂

What?

How ist alfa Romeo in rear wheels

@@antoniop._1333 It's all wheel drive with torsen center differential. No grip at rear means that only rear is spinning, no grip at front means that only front is spinning, that's how differential works.

Zgadza się, największą różnice robi tutaj elektronika.

İ really wish İ could understand you. İ think you are telling some good information.

@@MediaMonstersEMRE Comments say that Alfa has torsen C and Audi has torsen B but the electronics (ESP/TC) makes the biggest difference.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Thank you for the translation! İ saw that the Alfa is useless without the ESP but the Quattro behaves the same both with and without ESP. But the Q4 can be more capable than the quattro in cross pattern slip with ESP. Really strange. İ can see that the Alfas ESP can split the torq really well between left-right. Does that mean that my 2WD 159 1.9JTD will also be better on snow/wet grass with ESP on? İ always tought that the Traction control is the system that helps you in mud/snow. But now İ understand that the Traction control is only for the road to not slip the wheels unnececerly. İt cuts the power and you don't smoke tyres. But the ESP is not only the system that helps you stay on the road without spinning and stuff but it is also the system that controls the torq split between left-right by applying brake to individual wheel. Am İ right with all this? Sorry İ am really curious and like to learn this kind of stuff. :)

@@MediaMonstersEMRE You have to separate two systems - ESP and Traction Control. ESP doesn't intervene in this test via brakes, it just cuts the throttle. Slipping wheels are braked by traction control. In Audi, when you switch ESP off, traction control remains active. In Alfa, when you switch ESP off, traction control goes also off (at least how that works in Q4, not sure about FWD). Furthermore - in Audi, traction control works not only for left/right but also for front/rear. In Alfa it works only for left/right. So here Audi has an advantage. But for handling characteristics, Alfa is the car with better layout - transversely mounted engine combined with 40/60 FR torsen diff. That's much better than nose heavy Audi with longitudinal engine and 50/50 torsen.

All up to volunteers...

Here's new test - Alfa Romeo 156 Crosswagon: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mtqklMmL3K2dhJc.html

Test is true, there were two Alfa cars, both performed the same. Traction control doesn’t work between front and rear axles, only between left and right wheels. Here's our comment on the test: facebook.com/StacjaKontroliTrakcji/posts/1213837189094465

Za to na parkingu bokiem jak możesz polatać lub na mokrej nawierzchni

The center diff is torsen and its ot working properly, something is not right here

It is, here's new test - Alfa Romeo 156 Crosswagon: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mtqklMmL3K2dhJc.html

Alfa nie ma napędu "z Audi", torsen nie jest ani wynalazkiem, ani patentem Audi. I to właśnie w Alfie widać, że jest to torsen, nie wspomagany przez kontrolę trakcji tak się właśnie zachowuje.

Oj to masz zaległości, sporo aut daje radę 🙂

Np golf 4, 4 motion wszystko przeszedł :)

Honda legend też 😉

@@magabrysiak Legenda nie testowaliśmy.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers wiem.ale sat testy SH-AWD w usa

Slightly. It does that cause its traction control works for front/rear, Alfa is missing that.

Xdrive!!!

mechanically locked central diff and air lockers on both axles!! ;)