Alex really has a good sense of time when he said it felt like an hour after one hour and a minute of speaking

10:12 "Sometimes he just revs. To what end?" Perhaps he's elated by reving. So he may be having a rev-elation.

That must have been Peter Hitchens outside revving his car, taking an inordinate amount of time to leave!

Sam Harris would disagree with being characterized as being an "american conservative", he is a liberal, which he has said himself many times over.

I can’t believe this guy. It already feels like he’s explored so much of the world of politics and philosophy already and he’s only in his mid twenties. A pleasure to listen to. Well done Andrew 👏🏻

"To what end are you revving, sir?" lol good stuff

Started following and watching Alex...have real interest in philosophy and find him young and fresh in terms of explanations and questions. Thx Andrew for always being so generous in asking guests where we can visit as well as which heretic they admire-what a great question! Keep up great work, what a lovely chap you are, so natural, open and honest 👌

"Why woke beliefs are scarier than religion" is a very misleading title for that section.

Ah you guys, your minds are gifts to us. Thank you so much. minds like yours remind me that there is hope for this world. Keep talking, thinking, searching...love you guys - men are so cool!!!!

I've been enjoying Alex's content for a long time but especially lately as he explores areas other than religion.

this was so fun to watch. Alex has mental clarity and intellectual honesty unlike anything I've ever seen, the interviewer is so good at leading conversation too. V fun, what lovely men

The most mind-boggling think in this whole conversation is the fact that Alex is only 24.

A big problem is that brilliant people are also sometimes wrong… particularly when speaking about something outside their expertise. For example… Jordan Petersen Has a doctor of psychology… it does not make him an expert on virology or economics

Alex is one of my favourite speakers, this is mind-blowing. Hit like, notify, and tell me below what you think is more culturally relevant: woke vs religion?

I appreciated Alex's gentle but firm push back on this host's responses to his positions. Andrew tried to take Alex's response and turn it into support for his own position several times, and Alex's immediate follow up was to bring the discussion back to neutral apolitical ground.

Asking where the experience of redness is inside the brain is like asking where the software is inside of your computer; it's not sitting in there in a physical location per se, but it is more or less "in there" as the result of an information exchange process that occurs between tangible physical structures.

To what end!?! It's good to see Alex in a conversion where he can crack a few funnies. I wish the BBC would offer Alex a TV slot.

Andrew doing a Michael Jackson impression is such a great Easter egg in this brilliant interview.

This got progressively more interesting the further the discussion went. I don't think had the opportunity to hear Alex talk much about the motivation behind altruism before.

Great interview. It was really good to hear him interviewed rather than debated too, much more worthwhile and interesting.

Can't wait to watch this Andrew. Thanks so much for Heretics. A non-shouty breath of fresh air and sanity!

Looking forward to this.

I’ve been watching Alex since he first began on KZfaq and have eagerly watched his progress. I’m pushing sixty and I’ve found people like Alex to be the rarest sort - brilliance tempered with sincere humility and eagerness to engage openly and honestly places him in the highest echelons of influential thinkers in my opinion. To me he is as great a philosopher as any who have come before him.

I'm not sure if I agree with the "redness" argument, maybe I just don't understand it correctly. I have a lot of pictures and videos on my HDD, but if you cut it open you won't find any. They can only be processed by a machine, a PC (or whatever other device), just like "redness" in our brain can only be processed by a living organism. The difference is that we know how machines work, we built them after all, but how brain works is still a mystery for the most part.

I honestly don't see a logical difference between saying trans-women are women and adopted parents are parents. Both have a biological aspect attached but the difference is we socially accept adopted parents as parents even though they're technically not biological parents.

Alex has probably missed what Peterson has been up to since joining the Daily Wire. He’s mask off on his religious conservatism now. I suspect he was more cautious before in order to keep his audience options open as he was becoming famous. Now he’s established.

so so interesting. please make more of these, or even have a weekly podcast with alex where you discuss philosophy. I would listen to it every time all the way through

Great discussion - always enjoy hearing Alex. One point I’m keen to hear more on in future videos is Alex’s moral emotivism. In particular I’d like to hear his views on the basis on which he considers that our emotive responses are formed, and how/why there appears to be widespread consensus across multiple human civilisations regarding certain ‘moral’ claims. Additionally, why is it that my intuition that murder is repulsive feel so much more vivid/robust than my emotive responses regarding other aspects of life (ie in relation to food/drink preferences)? My sense is that the emotivist argument terminates too early insofar as refuses to consider the origins of our emotive responses, which in turn would lead us back towards something like a realist/objectivist basis for doing normative moral philosophy.

I would love to see you moderate a debate with both sides on this topic, one that doesn’t devolve into a screaming match. I know that’s not necessarily your format, but we desperately need to see people disagree while still trying to understand and respect each other

"I like a lot of what Jordon Peterson says", "I like a lot of what Ben Shapiro says". Two people known/shown to be grifters/propagandists in a lot of what they say.

This was a great interview. I'm always multitasking, Alex had me so engaged I stopped doing everything else, I even let my tea go cold. Absolutely fascinating.

Yes, the sloganization of arguments and/or politics! I've been thinking about that for a while now and I've noticed a lot of people will tend to argue against the slogan itself vs any actual arguments and it drives me nuts. I have a family member who thinks he's pretty smart cuz he'll argue against the slogan.

Thank you, Andrew! This is the second KZfaqr you've introduced me to who I know I'm going to love (the first was Coleman Hughes)!! This is my favourite episode of Heretics so far!

Alex is arguably the best thing on the internet. I’m a theist who is very grateful for internet personalities like WLC, Hugh Ross, etc.. But Alex is just someone who enriches every conversation. I wish I knew which pub he hangs out at after work.

Love these mind bending discussions.

Terror management theory is such an interesting view to me because while I can see it rearing its head whenever I do some artistic stuff thinking it'll be my legacy, but I also know that I would 100% not bother doing anything important at all if I knew I had a year or so to live. On the contrary, if someone were to tell me I won't die and I have to live here eternally, I'd devote significant portions of my life to bettering my conditions, thinking if I simply cannot not live, I sure as hell will live well.

Two guys trying to have an intelligent conversation, guy next door: "LOUD CAR GO VROOM VROOM"

Whenever the world just seems a little too insane, i seek out Andrew's channels to regain a sense of nuance and balance. Fantastic content, and then suddenly - flawless falsetto! Bravo sir, on both the episode and the MJ rendition.

Very entertaining. Thanks, guys!

Great conversation!

Outstanding interview Andrew. Alex is well to do in keeping his mind open to the possibility of a Creator

Imagine having a discussion about how people simplify and reduce political conversation to slogans and then presenting Alex's points about rhetoric as "woke culture is replacing religion" or "why woke beliefs are scarier than religion". No self-awareness.

I really like the revving interruptions :D

What an enjoyable and stimulating conversation between two thoughtful and enquiring minds. Nice one fellas, thanks for that!

my way of dealing with the thought of death as an atheist who doesn't believe in any form of afterlife is to think that i will no longer have to worry about dying once i am dead

23:05 Slogans are supposed to make you think, but the way political slogans are used in this context is to replace thought.

What is a women socially vs biologically isn't confusing at all.

Fascinating discussion. Was interesting when Alex experienced himself how the perception of time compresses as one ages. Being 72 I know it all too well. When asked who would you go for wisdom Alex mentioned Lord Altrincham. Did watch the episode in The Crown and took notice of Lord Altrincham but didn't know much about him. Will certainly check his work and life out. The person I have obtained a fair amount of wisdom is William James. Studied most of his works while pursuing a degree in Philosophy and Religious Studies back in the late 80's and early 90's. Helped in a profound way focus how I think about religion, truth, and knowledge. Well done, Andrew and Alex. You both inspire this old bloke.

loved this!

You guys give Jordan Peterson a lot of respect. When I hear Dr Peterson talk, I can only just giggle at the fusillade of bullshit that he spews with so much self-importance.

About the 'ugh' feeling that is morality around 35:40 : Philosopher Mary Midgley said that the 'yuk' feeling we're supposed to have about murder is actually very essential to morality. When someone doesn't have it, we call them a psychopath or something similar. Because this person may know that murder, rape etc. are wrong (like you can theoretically have a list of right and wrong things and memorize it), but they don't FEEL it. And that's the difference between just knowing something is not preferred in society, and having a moral judgement about something. Just some added info for those who now think moral judgements are not relevant or essential in society because 'they're just feelings' - yes they are, but vital ones.

I absolutely adore Alex and I’m so happy to be able to hear him speak freely as an interviewee this time!

Both of these guys are great

There was a recent research paper published that concluded a not insignificant number of people can’t form images in their mind by thinking of them, such as redness, even though they can see them. Likewise, in the same paper, they concluded a not insignificant number of people don’t have an inner voice. Fascinating stuff.

Fantastic talk. I always enjoy Alex’s perspectives. Andrew, you sing really well Sir. Impressive. 👏

all your guests are fascinating - appreciate the honesty in thinking

Honestly until religious belief is minority, it's bizarre to dismiss the topic. It's very much a gateway-idea to irrationality (to being willing to believe ideas without sufficient evidence).

Nowhere in did Alex say "Woke beliefs are scarier than religion". So why name the 06:06 conversation that? I didn't even think the conversation was about that, since the word "woke" wasn't even mentioned once. I felt like the conversation was more about how some topics, that he regards as less important or that has gone on for too long, can get more attention in media and debates.

I went to Altrincham Grammar School and grew up in Bowdon, the village next to Altrincham! What a brilliantly personal (for me) end to a really great video! Cheers!

I HAVE BEEN WAITING PATIENTLY FOR THIS CROSS-OVER... THANK YOU ANDREW 😚

The section at 6:00 is titled "Why woke beliefs are scarier than religion" but neither of you discuss this in the next couple of minutes. Wondering what compelled you to title it as such. Edit: Never mind. All the sections have clickbaity titles. Seems rather ingenuine.

I can't believe Alex O'Connor is only 24 year old, looking forward to listen to him more... great discussion as usual!

Great convo

Your channel is on fire Andrew!

2:10 Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris are "American conservatives"? Jordan Peterson isn't even American and Sam Harris sure as hell isn't a conservative.

If you asked a person chanting "free free palestine" what they mean, most willbe able to tell you exactly what that means. The few in edited youtube interviews who can't are exactly that, a few, deliberately edited to appear like a majority.

I have always been anti-authoritarian but pro institutions where they support liberty. When the right is authoritarian, I am anti-right, when the left is authoritarian, I am anti-left.

Didn't think I would enjoy this conversation so much... there's a beautiful world beyond debates and so on

Sad to see Alex engaging in this bullshit

Jordan Peterson intentionslly over- complicates things just to make his ideas sound more intellectual than they actuslly are. You can tell he's teeing up some warmed-up meatloaf when he starts with "I've thought about this a lot" - it's clsssic plaid-blazer "trust me" selling. Ive said it on other threads - the man could make toast difficult to grasp as a concept.

That secret room in your own house analogy is spot-on. I often even have dreams about my own house, only in my dream-version of my house there are extra rooms that I never noticed before or simply didn't have time to get to that I've finally found a use for in my dream, and then I wake up a bit disappointed that the extra rooms in my house weren't real (because they're often very cozy rooms too).

"We're living in handmaids tale" "Its just like 1984" The favorite refrains of people who dont actually read speculative fiction

@4:30 Sam Harris is a conservative??? 😂😂😂

As you age the amount of time represented by a year becomes a smaller and smaller fraction of your life whereas when you're a child it's a much larger fraction of your life so you feel like a year has lasted for ages.

Love the intro!!❤

Loved this one!

Alex had the best interview skills, how to handle unstable inteviewees after how he handled Hitchens and his insane outburst and kept it going politely without folding and whilst also letting Hitchens know he was being unfair. Massive respect to this guy

I would argue that the "my body my choice" thing actually falls into the bodily autonomy argument, and I'd argue that is the actual reason it has been so oversimplified. The argument is essentially that no other nuance is necessary, it is a total belief in bodily autonomy, where no one has any right to another persons body, regardless if it is necessary to their survival. For instance, most people would not try to argue that we should mandate blood and organ donations, because even though it is necessary for someone else's survival (particularly for people with rare blood types), at the end of the day the person who's body is being utilized has bodily autonomy, and that must be protected before anything else. Many people who are pro-choice actually do not believe in abortion on a personal level, and they themselves would never get an abortion if it (except for maybe severe medical complications), but they do not believe anyone has the right to force someone else to carry a pregnancy. And even when making the argument "they made a choice that led to the pregnancy", part of bodily autonomy is that people have the right to change their mind, or maybe they never "chose" to be pregnant, instead it was a mistake, mistakes happen, and they still have a right over their body.

Alex brought up an interesting point about love and connection being umtimately self motivated, but I have come to a better way of understanding it from a slightly different perspective. My own personal reflections on love over the past year made me see myself as a part of someone else. My flaws, my weaknesses, etc. were not only mine, but something that we had. Relationships, to me, are defined by seeing yourself and someone else as a unit and whatever/whoever you are is a part of them and vice versa. You might do things for others because they in some way preserve or benefit yourself, but you also might do things for yourself because they preserve or benefit them. For me, the cliche phrase, "I love you," must incluse in its definition, "I see myself as a part of who you are and I love myself." To love someone else, for me, is an acklowledgement that I too am loved, for I love the relationship that I am a part of. People might be understandably confrontatious to the idea that even a good act of love and compassion is self motivated, but there's something deeper. An act of love towards someone else should be beneficial to you as you start to see them as a fundamental part of who you are. To me that is love. A fireman rushing into a building to save a child might say he's doing it because he can't live with himself. I say that he's doing it because a fundemental part of himself, the child, will die if he doesn't. He isn't just saving himself in an emotive sense, he's seeing the child's life as part of who he is as a person. Love should become a selfish act not to feel good or perserve some duty to someone else, but the more you love someone else, the more of them you become. To love them is to love that part of yourself.

The Jordan River answer by singing it, had me dying 😂 just picturing the absurdity of it. I'm going to make it a point to answer questions in adding from now on

This is my favourite interview you’ve ever done Andrew; loved it ❤️

The framing of your topics is a bit strange to me - you call the section at 6:00 "Why woke beliefs are scarier than religion" which isn't what Alex was saying at all. He was merely commenting on how cultural obsessions change over time.

I'm very confused with how you're titling the sections. It's incredibly misleading, actually. The titles have nothing to do with the actual content in the video.

I think that this is your best video yet. Alex has such interesting and thoughtful ideas. I like that he talks about how he thinks social movements and things like morality are shaped by humans rather than focussing on his own stance in these things.

02:34 Love you, Alex, but calling Sam Harris conservative is not accurate in the slightest.

I think that the idea that gender wars and woke culture are replacing religion is a proposition way too absurd if you know anything about history or human nature. Revolutions, ideologies and movements have always been part of human history and nature. They have always existed alongside religion and without religion it is no different. To say it somehow is happening because people have no religion is simply absurd.

“Nothing corrupts revolutionary movements more - and more radically - than success. For the first generation, the pioneering one, is followed by that of opportunists. The third continues to fight out of habit; the fourth, out of inertia. Eventually the movement turns its battle inward, splitting into factions, groups, sects, one against the other, one against all. Substance gives way to superficiality. Personalities replace ideas; slogans replace ideals. The lofty goals are lost; the message is forgotten. Now the struggle revolves around titles and positions…” -Elie Wiesel, souls on fire 1972

Loved this!

I agree about the sloganism point, but as far as I understand about the trans movement (being part of it myself and observing those around me), "trans women are women" is not just a slogan summary of a broader point, but the point itself. And no one arguing _for_ that point has, as far as I'm aware, talked about "woman/women" in terms of biological sex. The language _can_ get confusing when you dive into what words you use to refer to biological sex, since words like "female" are _sometimes_ used to refer to biological sex and _sometimes_ used to refer to socialogical/psychological gender ("male/female" are used in an official capacity in some states of the US to refer to one's gender, not sex, on one's birth certificate and driver's license, further adding to the confusion), but "woman/women" is unanymously used by the trans community to refer to gender, not sex. When we hear people arguing about words, it's often opponents of the trans community who reject any and all terminology intended to refer to gender, or who get terms consistently confused or wrong. Otherwise, any currently debated terminology within the LGBTQ+ community is mostly just people figuring things out, whether that be scientists/doctors/researchers choosing more concise terms to study or treat trans patients, philosophers/psychologists/anthropologists exploring the field from their own lens, or individuals/groups within the community trying to find the right words to explain their experience on a personal or universal level. These things take time to reach concensus and I try to be lenient with anyone who wants to use "the right words", but isn't privy to inclusive language. At one point, even the word "gay" was questionable, though I think just about everyone knows what it specifically refers to today. Unconventional neopronouns like "ze/zer" don't seem to be catching on as much because they don't roll off the tongue as well, so I suspect they will stay niche as more non-binary people utilize the more conventional "they/them". I try not to talk past people, personally. I try to pay attention to what words people use and either reflect that terminology myself when talking with them or I try to make what _I_ mean clear so they can't read as many assumptions into my position when I make it, and communication in general goes much more smoothly, leading to far less animosity, even when I talk with someone outside my circle. I feel like that's the better approach to communication with the wider public. I do prefer to use more inclusive language, though, as it avoids being disrespectful to myself and other trans people reading what I say online. As for my justification for using inclusive language, it's less about the legitimacy of the philosophy and more about the ethical implications. It's hard to explain what it's like being trans (with dysphoria) and not realizing it because more conducive language is not around to help you process your feelingsーusing pronouns or referring to yourself by your biological sex, which causes you what seems like a tiny bit of discomfort in the short term, but which piles up in the long run, turning into disassociation, depression, self-esteem issues, shame, etc. I subconsciously tried being a non-gender-conforming version of my birth sex, but it never solved the problem. It wasn't my interests or behavior that caused the dysphoria, but rather my internal sense of identity. I eventually learned I was intersex (chromosomes) in high school and it shocked me because it felt like it could be a missing piece of the puzzle that explained why I felt the way I did, but it wasn't until I learned about trans people's experiences and did my research to calm my fears and metaphysical concerns over it that I finally realized that was the answer. Ultimately, it was the very act of identifying as, and being identified as, my gender in public that alleviated some of that internal strife. My quality of life has improved a lot since. Likewise, uninclusive language intended to deny me that dignity to live according to my identity causes my dysphoria to flare up, and when people do it deliberately, it just feels mean-spirited, in away that projects disrespect toward someone you hate. It gets worse when people accuse you of being a sexual predator because of incomprehensible stereotypes that feel alien to me and everyone I know within the community. Inclusive language doesn't "deny reality". It's a tool used to communicate betterーlanguage that explains the previously unexplainable, especially for those afflicted by dysphoria. It's something that allows me and others like me to live healthier, more productive lives.

It's odd to me that both of these thoughtful men seem so committed to either/or thinking. Their attitudes seem to be, either I'm doing something wholly for someone else, or I'm doing it wholly to satisfy my own needs. In fact, however, and presumably as they both know, motivation is considerably more complex than that. It's not "either/or;" it's "both/and."

I just subscribed to this channel because the host began singing. It definitely caught my attention, also he has a good voice and of course I enjoyed the interview . But it was his singing that compelled me to hit the subscription button, and is something Mr Gold should do more often because it gives him a real USP. Just a thought to ponder...

I sort of broke at the description of JBP and Sam Harris as "American conservatives". Not sure on what spectrum Sam H is conservative :D

This is podcast gold. The bit about the kids and the turtle necks with tweed jackets at the end resulted in me almost spitting my tea out. I could listen to you both talk for hours.

To me, "free Palestine " means to transform the current state of Israel with its ethno religious laws that favour one demographic group. Into a one multi ethnic and secular state that treats individuals and groups equally. Religion, race, and ethnicity need not be a deciding factor of individuals' rights in modern states. Much respect 🙏

"You can't cut open a brain and find redness." Sounds a bit like"You can't cut open a laptop and find Windows."

Really? More than an hour riding white horses from the heights of sophistication and making irony about slogans? Puff...

At the expense of sounding too new age, I seriously think that what's next is mindfulness. That is, closer attention to peace that emanates from within then translates to interactive life. It's a long time coming, but mindfulness (or un-mindfulness, as Eckhart Tolle would infer) has been in the mix for decades.

Instead of saying : "trans women are women" when we mean that gender identity is subjective, we should say : "identity is subjective!"? (with the understanding that we should respect a persons subjective experience of reality - no one really having much choice in the matter)

👏🙂 Great interview

where the hell are they recording this