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A small nitpick, but I honestly think Marth deserves A tier. I was really surprised to see how much he actually pulled from NES and SNES Fire Emblem titles, and the tipper mechanic coupled with his great movement was a really creative way of implementing the tactical element of his gameplay.

I honestly think Marth is probably the best designed Fire Emblem character. His tipper mechanic isn't just a spicy gimmick to make him stand out, it forces the player to focus on spacing more than usual, thus mirroring how the key to Fire Emblem is good unit placement and not just rushing in like a suicidal maniac. Something Roy and Chrom's movesets kinda betray. Although to be fair, Awakening clearly states that Robin is the brains of the operation, so Chrom probably would just rush in and get himself killed on his own. In that sense I'd argue that his bad recovery is actually a good reflection of how dangerous rushing in without a plan can be.

Seeing Young Link in D tier makes me very hopeful you make a Remake It episode for Young Link. Also I agree with you about Bowser's voice. It still boggles my mind that the Smash team hasn't gotten Kenny James' Bowser voice yet and continues to use those dumb animal noises.

From an animation perspective, I love how Mr. Game and Watch was handled. His walk cycle is so erratic and his moveset so strange yet in-character for him.

Time for the Melee crew’s turn under the microscope. Bowser is a bit weird in that I feel like you could argue that his Specials could be replaced for more accurate moves, but they do function pretty well for his moveset so it might be weird to change them. He really should have his canon voice and personality at least, I agree there. I won’t lie, I wouldn’t mind Zelda getting a rework, mainly due to how obnoxious she can be to fight against. She’s also the contender for the most annoying Final Smash to play against, Triforce of Wisdom is a pain in 1v1s or Casual play. I still like the option of rehauling Ganondorf with some of his old moves intact while transferring the role of “stronger Captain Falcon” to Black Shadow. Was that a hint to a Mewtwo Remake It? I’m interested. I was interested in where you’d rank Roy considering his odd circumstances. I think his English voice actor even once said voicing FE Roy and Smash Roy is like voicing different characters, though don’t quote me on that. I do wonder how he could “bridge the gap” between his Canon and Smash appearances further, as you say. Maybe a new special move somewhere? Or even just some new voice lines?

6:53 Common misconception. Hyrule Historia, the source of the Twilight Princess Sheik concept art, clearly states that it was made for Brawl and not an unused idea.

Bowser needs more than his voice in my opinion. His personality and design in smash is opposite of how it is in the Mario series; all he’s shown as is a monster only (mostly because of Sakurai holding him back)

I wouldn't describe Ultimate's Ice Climber combos as "dubious" or anywhere near their infinites in previous titles. They're genuinely cool when they're pulled off in tournament play. Don't know why they're so lowly ranked here; surely the problems of Nana's AI are overblown, especially after the buffs? I do agree that Ganon does feel in character due to his strength, even though his source material is lacking. That's one thing I can always commend his moveset for; it nails the feel of being this ultra-powerful warlock. Overall, this is a pretty solid list. Fun watch.

Zelda in ultimate is definitely the most playable version of the character so far. But i think the playstyle could use some improvements. As she is right now, she's has a very one-dimensional gameplan. Where I would prefer deeper trap based moveset. In other words, make her more like PAC MAN.

The best way to design a Smash fighter is with their in game abilities and personalities in mind above all else. While I don't think characters like Marth or Fox or Captain Falcon need to be changed, Characters like Ganondorf, Young Link, Doctor Mario, or Roy don't represent who those characters are very well at all. Characters like Steve or Kazuya are incredibly well designed based on their source material, regardless of what competitive players say about them. Considering Smash is intended to be a fun crossover event representing many characters, locations, games and series that anyone can pick up and enjoy, the most important thing is to make sure the fighter feels like they do in their home series.

Not sure what could be done with Roy. His aggressive playstyle doesn’t match his canon characterization (or gameplay) at all, but anything I can think of to make him play/act more like his canon self would just make him less unique and more like the other Marth variants.

You're gonna have to explain your design criteria cause your reasoning is struggling to stay consistent. You seem to greatly factor a character's competitive side with most of the other areas like on-hands experience (AKA how fun you think they are to play in-general) as second. Luigi is in F-Tier solely for being frustrating to fight, yet G&W is in S-Tier and he's gotten a ton of flack from people as well. Another confusing situation with Doc, he's in E Tier for being a consistent bottom tier despite being well received in every other design corner for clone standards, and yet Ganon is in the same tier despite having the same competitive problem on top of less reasons for his moveset to be the way it is. I agree that Ganon's core identify has some value to it, but why Doc sitting next to him then, from what you described the latter should be in C tier at worst. Similar story with DK & Link, huge design tier gaps with the only reasoning being that Link as gained a few moderate moveset changes over the years. Heck, both characters have very similar tournament histories with no mention there. Lastly, I seriously can't tell if you're basing these off all the characters' appearances in Smash or just Ult. Like unless you're seriously going to argue that Ult Icies high skill, well received combos are degenerate, then something doesn't add up. Long comment, I get it, but it's very confusing IMO.

Finally someone else who thinks Bowser’s voice is the only thing that needs changing and that’s it.

I'd love to see you remake Ganondorf again utilizing Tears of the Kingdom stuff.

I think modern day ice climbers are actually perfect. Have touch of death combos, but they are so bad at approaching and they are so difficult they can still feel fair

3:21 "...Maybe (Peach's) neutral special could be something else, freeing up Toad to be playable..." Like that stopped Chrom from pulling double duty as a playable character AND Robin's Final Smash in Ultimate. 😝 That one was such a bizarre choice. If it were up to me, I would've changed Robin's Final Smash to be Morgan helping her father. (Or "helping his mother" in Female Robin's case.)

With your criticisms on Mewtwo, I'm genuinely curious about how you'd change him.

"Maybe Peach's Neutral-Special could be something else, freeing up Toad to be playable." I think the solution to that would be super simple: Replace Toad with Toadsworth. It would also remove the weird spores that Toad only has in Smash Bros. because Toadsworth could just counterattack with his cane instead. Sakurai really does Kenny James dirty with Bowser. There's this mod that replaces his voice and the best part about it is that he says the "Showtime!"-line from Bowser's Inside story at the beginning of a fight.

Luigi can NOT be worse than ganondorf lol At least there's a reason why Luigi is so close to Mario, that's how he still is in the core Mario games. They're meant to be a pair, not just having one be completely based around Luigi's Mansion stuff when that's part of his history instead of his whole identity Meanwhile Ganondorf just got his whole inspiration from recycling moves inspired by Kamen Rider, nothing indicating him being a dark wizard warlord besides purple fire in some moves. At least Luigi makes sense as to why he's close to Mario

I agree that Mewtwo's moveset is a bit lacking but Mewtwo is still my main and had fun with him, so this is my own version of Remake it as a Mewtwo main and Mewtwo fan. Playstyle: Mix-Up + Pressurer Having a variety of attacks while also applying pressure to your opponents and finding openings and weaknesses for you to exploit. Fitting for Mewtwo having a versatile kit of moves in the Pokemon games and having the ability Pressure. You're supposed to feel pressure in his presence. - Remove the dumb tail hitbox - Increase the weight to be 98 (Around Mario or Pyra) considering he’s canonically heavier than Charizard in the games but I don’t want to make it too heavy - Movement can stay the same Jab (Dark Flash): Stays, does really good damage Dash-Attack (Shadow Blast): The former forward smash became the dash attack with a better hitbox and a monstrous kill move Forward Tilt (Tail Whip): Stays, he actually does it in the anime Up Tilt (Quick Wiper): Stays, just to stay consistent with the other tilts Down Tilt (Low Sweep): Stays, has good range and a good combo starter Forward Smash (Psycho Cut): Kinda like Cloud’s neutral B but shorter range and can’t be reflected Up Smash (Galaxy Force): Stays, just give it a better hitbox Down Smash (Shadow Bomb): Stays, it’s a really good move Neutral Air (Psyshock): Stays, just a name and visual change with a larger hitbox Forward Air (Shadow Claw): Stays, one of the best forward airs in my opinion Back Air (Reflect): Like Palu’s back air but a larger hitbox and instead of invincibility, it can reflect projectiles Up Air (Dark Pulse): Similar to Zelda and Ivysaur’s up air and just as destructive Down Air (Meteor Blast): Same as Ivysaur’s down air but more destructive Grabs and Throws: Stays, it suits Mewtwo's personality Up Taunt: Stays the same Side Taunt: Emitting psychic aura stays the same, but instead Mewtwo crossed his arms while giving a menacing glare forward Down Taunt: Sips a cup of tea (Why not) Neutral Special (Shadow Ball): Stays, not only is it a fantastic move but it also suits Mewtwo and it is its signature move in the anime. Side Special (Psychic): Basically Superman’s side b in the air from Multiversus. Mewtwo will fly forward and if he collide with an enemy while flying he will GRAB them and throw them in any chosen direction. Up Special (Teleport): Almost the same, but gains invincibility a few frames earlier. Down Special (Confuse Ray): Same function as Disable but given the range of Confusion. Final Smash: Two versions (Kinda like Ryu and Ken) Far Away (Psystrike): Same as Mewtwo’s actual final smash Up Close (Shadow Punch): Transforms into Mega Mewtwo X and strikes with a powerful shadow induced punch similar to Ganon’s Neutral special

Really looking forward to see how the rest of the Smash cast measures up in this miniseries. This and Remake It are the cream of the crop of this channel. If Sonic doesn't join Luigi in the F tier, I'll be very surprised.

I don't like how Sheik doesn't have a harp anywhere in her moveset, but even a taunt. It's the main thing she actually does in the game and it's nowhere to be found

Great video! I'm glad we got to see all characters ranked at the end but it would have also been nice to see the list of only the guys ranked on this video alongside the full list of both part 1 and 2!

I’m also one of the few kids back in the day who knew G&W back in the day via 2 and 3 on the GB. Nice video, although for Young Link I’d say he needs a rework overall to be unique personally. Lean in on OoT and MK, kinda like Hyrule Warriors, including either a Fierce Deity temp transformation like Joker’s Persona Mechanic or as a Final Smash. Having all three Masks would be way too crazy unless he’s a DLC character. Whenever we get a new Smash game, the Zelda Characters are by far the ones I’m curious as to how they’ll end up.

Peach: Pretty much agree with you here, although her Neutral Special can remain the same. We still have Captain Toad, after all. Bowser: Agree with you again, Bowser needs his proper voice. Ice Climbers: Are you sure there’s a cheese tactic with them in Ultimate? I haven’t heard anything about that. Sheik: Honestly, I’m surprised Sheik is still here and still well designed to boot. I’d throughly they’d replace her (or him) with Impa after what happened in Sm4sh, but she’s still great. Zelda: I dunno, I think what the team were trying to do is to make each Zelda character be based off a certain game (at least visually). As such, I don’t know is she needs a rework or just some well placed buffs. Dr. Mario: I’m honesty surprised they didn’t make him a Echo Fighter. Maybe it’s because of his lesser range and as such, he would be different enough? I think they should give him the same range as Mario and make him a Echo Fighter next game. Pichu: I love his rework in Ultimate, but maybe he could replace his Side Special with Frail to be more different from Pikachu? Falco: Probably one of the better “semi-clones”, alongside Wolf. Marth: Hmm, curious how you’ll balance that out. Young Link: Honesty, the only thing I can of as to how to make him different would be to give the masks from Majora’s Mask. He’s still pretty fun, though. Ganondorf: I think your move set is still the most likely scenario, except he keeps his current appearance. Mewtwo: I think is his low weight is because of his low defensives. After all, he has high attack stats, high speed, but low defensive stats. It makes sense. Roy: Actually, there are a lot of people (aka, a majority of people) who don’t like Roy in Fire Emblem, but do in Smash. He’s honesty a blank slate in his original game (even more than Corrin to some people), so I don’t think they’ll like it if he’s more close to his source material. Mr. Game & Watch: The most changed of the Melee characters, and that benefitted him.

yay, new Delzethin video! I needed some positivity in my day :)

I can literally never predict what ranking you give each character.

could you try remaking dr.mario's moveset

Not sure Roy would need adjustments on his personallity in Smash to fit his canon behivior in Fire Emblem, a lot of people actually like his aggresive version while find his canon personallity boring

skip sponsor: 1:35

The only other Design Tier List I have seen is from the Design Dorks

Yay, part two! I was wondering when this would happen. Very good video, keep up your good work

14:18 Actually, Toon Link is the one with better frame data. Young Link is more of better proyectiles and conversions of the 3 Links, while Link is about ineffective gimmicks who look cool but are unpractical. Also, about Mewtwo, I think I have something to say about him as someone with competitive pokémon knowledge. Mewtwo is a legendary known for incredible speed up until gen 8 powercrept everything, average power for legendary standards (Aka ridiculous), below average bulk for a legendary and very deep movepool. The archetype he should fit then should be someone like Akuma, great kill power (special attack), movility (speed), mix-ups (the movepool) and damage-racking potential, but subpar defenses, something only Smash 4 and ultimate understand because in Melee he was slow and weak for some reason. Mewtwo is far from perfect, because using Ice beam would be better than disable and could also use fire moves to indicate that movepool, but it works well enough; a big problem is that you can only have 4 specials, and both teleport, shadow ball and confusion work on his kit. Finally, Roy's kit actually clicked in smash 4, BUT it wasn't working because the game was way too good at shieldgrab any aerial and running limited his access to his tilts and give him the terrible signature Marth-like dash attack.

I would change bowser in a few ways obviously his voice yes but also things like adding his fire balls as well as his breath in a tap and hold type thing and I would change his forward smash to his regular punch attack from Mario and Luigi bowsers inside story also I would say that you could change his final smash to be like fury bowser but honestly I like giga bowser just as much so I’m fine either way

My personal list: Peach: B tier - shows off her classic femininity pretty well but not super impressive in any sense. Bowser: C tier - he is stupid and aggressive, but the lack of voice hurts his character a lot. Also a severe lack of references. Ice Climbers: B tier - like, there really isn’t anything to pull from in the original games, so there aren’t really any problems but it also doesn’t help. Shiek: C tier - she is a ninja, but she has no harp and those are the only things that Shiek is known for. Zelda: C tier - I can see the triforce of wisdom in her precise ariels and trapper archetype but it could be debated that it still doesn’t show it off well. Dr. Mario: D tier - why is he here? Why is he stronger and slower? Why does he have nothing to do with puzzles? Pichu: D tier - he still works, but a joke character doesn’t work if he is good. Which he is. Falco: A tier - almost S tier, but I feel like his air speed should be better. But a spacie is a spacie. Marth: B tier - the tipper helps in the strategy of Fire Emblem. Young Link: D tier - he doesn’t do much, but he can at least be emblematic of melee. Gannondorf: E tier - absolutely awful at representing the bland and uninteresting character he is based on by being too fun. That fun keeps him from F tier. Mewtwo: E tier - he does the absolute bare minimum to sell him as the strongest psychic pokèmon. By giving him some purple stuff. Roy: E tier- the exact same story as Gannondorf. Boring character originally, with a fun but not cohesive smash depiction. Mr. Game & Watch: A tier - if it weren’t for the readability issue, he’d be S tier. Yeah, I don’t think highly of melee characters overall.

Alright, Deluxe next! I think my Tier List is mostly the same as yours, Delzethin. Princess Peach: A, Bowser: C, Ice Climbers/Popo & Nana: D, Sheik: A, Princess Zelda: D, Dr. Mario: E, Pichu: C (like Pikachu), Falco Lombardi: B (like Fox McCloud), Marth: B, Young Link: D, Ganondorf: E, Mewtwo: D, Roy: D, and Mr. Game & Watch: S. Can't wait for the X Tier List whenever it comes (probably near the end of the year), and the next video being the 6th Challenger Approaching! video fixing video gaming's most beloved underdog, Luigi, where he's not so toxic, and polarizing like he has been since pretty much the very beginning! :D

16:10 Haha, a great video as always AND you made me belly-laugh. What more could you ask for?

Video request: “What if Godzilla was in Smash? (Moveset Idea)”

Ty for saying your opinion, I am far harsher on some of these because some moves to me feel like they should be changed entirely for characters to be perfect when comparing source material I'll respond in the next messages my thoughts while high on life per character top of my head

i think the Mewtwo of Smash is the one in the movie, same with Lucario

19:53 Hard agree

Congratulations on the sponsor bro

To me, I feel like the TOTK version of Zelda would fit amazingly over the current Zelda moveset with a few thematic tweaks. (TOTK Spoilers below) So instead of using the three spells from Ocarina of Time, you redo theme to theme them around the three dragon spirits from BOTW & TOTK: Naydra, Dinraal, & Farosh. Swap multi-hitting reflector that is Nayru's love for a a multi hitting ice aura similar to the attack Link performs while wearing a piece of the Frost armor set from TOTK Din's Fire can stay the same basically (but change it's name to Dinraal's Fire as it's a basic magic fireball attack that even made it's way into Zelda's moveset in other spin-offs like Cadence of Hyrule And for up special Farore's wind can instead be themed around lightning with a similar circular attack & burst to the Charged armor set from TOTK Down special also gives a unique opportunity as using Mineru's construct body would be a perfect substitute for the Phantom Change some of the basic attacks to include the elements of the other dragons, incorporate Recall into her grabs & taunts, add a Light Dragon final smash, & you got what feels like a major overhaul but keeps the general playstyle

I’m surprised Young Link hasn’t pivoted towards Majora’s Mask for his moves. Regarding Pichu, the Dan comparison may not be accurate anymore because he’s a genuine threat in SFV. And hot take, I don’t want Matthew Mercer to voice Ganondorf in the next Smash. Not that I have anything against him or his performance, it’s just that I’d prefer a Middle Eastern actor to take up the role.

You've gotta give credit to this man,he's giving US stuff to watch before the nintendo direct

Wirling fortress should be a chargible side b which gives you a slower more powerful rolling fortresses whith the double shell spike ball, up B should be clown car swoop similar to Bowser's smw appearance where he can hop out of it and even use it as an obsitcle leaving it on stage, fire breath should have a samus mewtwo charge shot of flame breath, Giga should be playible, not to mention if we actually let him change forms to dry and meowser also

It’s such a shame sakurai just doesn’t make actual changes He thinks of these characters too much in terms of his games and gets trapped into thinking they are fighting game characters rather than characters who sometimes fight each other Sure you get the odd thing but he won’t properly change any character more than like 4 moves and the original 12 seen to be sacred cows Personally I’d say we have like 3 don’t charge characters fox falcon and Marth

Mewtwo was like a Villian in the 1st Pokemon Movie

I legit can’t tell if it’s legit about Bowser, some of his moves feel incredibly weak for being the heaviest fighter, with only two moves using punches despite well known for this in his star game. His grabs are nothing compared to the other heavies and his command grab is the only thing that can carry it but it’s super easy to DI. Legit does not feel like Bowser at all

Any word on when the brawl design list is getting made

Ganondorf is objectively the worst represented character in Smash Bros. Hope to see how you would rank the Brawl veterans.

I like the sponsor ad this time.

when will Part 3 come out?

Peach should have vibe but also the future costume powers in the future ... ooooo

You know it’s funny, Doc and ganondorf are E tier, yep they’re better designed than Luigi lol

I personally considered wario as a Botttom tier. His mobility and animations are too occurred and clunky in the wrong ways, waft is a dumb idea in my opinion, and he just doesn’t fell like Wario to me.

Geno needs a 2nd rebuild

Honostly I would love to see you make a remake it video for bowser

Ganondorf? F Tier. Worst design in the game (or least favorite, whichever you prefer). Of ALL the clones in the game, his kit is the only one that wasn’t related to him to begin with. For Dr. Mario, sure, he is the PINNACLE of laziness, but I let it slide since he’s also technically Mario. For Young Link, while not very faithful to his outings, what he’s got is passable for me; besides, SOMEONE’S bound to remind everyone of how normal Link was back then. But Ganondorf? He’s MORE than just a more powerful Captain Falcon. He’s the King of Darkness, the strongest warlock, someone who deserves his OWN identity which he has since his home game inception. It’s insulting to me that his Smash incarnation pulls SO LITTLE from his source material, it being very small details no less. Thankfully, your remake has healed that wound quite a bit.

A+

Ganondorf F-

Wanna join the development team for BruceTube Fighters? (That's a platform fighter I'm working on, you can help make movesets, I also asked this on the Multiversus vid)

6:23 So I jokingly unsubscribed. But I will resubscribe after this comment.

gud vid

Game and Watch is way too overtuned for S-Tier, moves like his Up B, Up Smash and Down Smash are 100% heinous. A decent design otherwise.

Ultimate zelda Look like A generic anime Girl to me

First