The way I pronounce Hydrocity is the absolute correct way and if you say it differently, leave my comments section you heathens

"Sonic 3 and 'I hope you're okay with that'" is even longer than just saying 'and Knuckles' though...

Knuckles and Knuckles 3 starring Knuckles featuring Knuckles from the Knuckles may chuckle series with a cameo appearance by Knuckles.

This is a great retrospective and knuckles

I just like how you called CyberShell the “Sonic Lore Master”. I remember how he said people refer to him as such in a video, so I absolutely love the reference. Good on you.

Sonic 3 AIR is a thing now with widescreen. New definitive version.

Sonic 3 A.I.R. has become the definitive way to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Tails' hitbox is slightly smaller in Sonic The Hedgehog 2, making him an easy mode. a very, very, very, slight easy mode.

I know you said you felt Ice Cap Act 2's song felt soulless, but I loved it because the ice caverns emptied out into a quiet snowy wasteland and the music matched, feeling quieter, almost hushed.

IIRC The seesaws in Mushroom Hill were added because they allowed a second player to contribute to the mechanics more than just following by increasing the ascent speed, and the team had been puzzling over something for Tails to do that was in-level more than just carry Sonic around, which some players had asked for. So it was kind of an attempt.

This video encompasses just about if not everything I've always thought about the game, being someone who played it through well over a hundred times at the *least* growing up. Thanks for this!

John cena you can't see me spike balls.

Wow, what an interesting take KingK has on Sonic 3! I've been playing that game my whole life, it's my all-time favorite, and he's still coming up with things I've never even considered about it! I can't wait to see what... "Hie-draw-sity." *twitch* Heheheh, hey, that's always been a hotly-contested pronunciation, and it's no problem if other people want to say it differen- "Hie-draw-sity, in Hie-draw-sity, going back to Hie-draw-sity, Hie-draw-sity, Hie-draw-sity, HIE-DRAW-SITY." NOW LISTEN HERE YOU LAZY MILLENNIAL BACK IN MY DAY WE REVELED IN OUR CHEAP LEVEL DESIGN FULL OF CRUSHERS WE NEVER COULD HAVE SEEN COMING IT MADE US REAL GAMERS GOD KIDS TODAY ARE SO CODDLED I'M SORRY SONIC GAMES DON'T GIVE YOU A PARTICIPATION TROPHY ALTHOUGH AT MY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN THE 90S (THE ONLY GOOD DECADE EVER) WE GOT PARTICIPATION TROPHIES SO I GUESS IT'S... not that big a difference, and whooo, okay, I didn't know hearing it pronounced that way so many times would have that effect on me. I love your observation about Sonic offering the most variety. In my own episode years ago, I think I just focused on how much harder-yet-rewarding the insta-shield was to use properly, but the variety offered by Sonic's shield powers really adds to why he's almost always my character of choice. I agree too with your observation about the special stages, both in their placement being SO much better, and in Blue Spheres being neat enough, but a bit boring. I wish there was a way to immediately max out your speed in 'em, that'd at least make them a little more palatable. For me, I think my Special Stage preference might go Sonic 1

Sonic's insta-shield is seriously one of the most underrated abilities in the series. Mastering its use feels so badass, especially when you get into doing things like jumping through the lava falls in Lava Reef or nerfing enemy projectiles.

Oooh been looking forwards to this one! Huge fan of your other sonic videos and was greatly anticipating your take on the third game (and your self-declared "all-time favourite") :) For me, Sonic 1 will always be my favourite but that's probably rose-tinted nostalgia glasses talking - it was the first real videogame I owned. I respect the arguments you made against it in your video, but personally, for me, Scrap Brain Zone could well be my favourite-ever Sonic level...different strokes for different folks I guess! Idk why I like it, something about it's brutality and the massive difficulty spike from Star Light, it truly felt like a proper "last zone". Maybe it was the awe I felt as a kid first seeing the intro title and that theme kick into life, before being annihilated in swift course and realising "oh, so this is where the real challenge begins..."

i knew that the video about sonic 3&k would be amazing! thank you for making this ^^ i always thought that ice cap act 2 music sounds somewhat similar to Who Wants to Be a Millionaire theme

Sonic 3 A.I.R. fixes most of your problems

I hope we get Sonic Mania 2.

"What would we do without him" Cybershell: Disappears off of the face of the earth Let's hope he's back in 8 years for the sonic 3 bonus video

Growing up with these games makes a big difference. When you play them in order as they come out it makes sonic 3 look incredible after the first 2. Mania is my favorite now though

Sonic 3 AIR is now the definitive way to play the game

After watching, I had to make a second comment. There is an element that I think sometimes people overlook in games like this. While I agree with you about the hazards and structure of Marble Garden, I still like it so much from an artistic standpoint that I feel it's worth it to learn and overcome those obstacles. It's just such a nice place to "visit". Like how you can go on a road trip, and the driving is the worst part because traffic is one of the greatest human tragedies since the Hindenburg, but it's still a part of the experience, and you still find ways to make it enjoyable, and when you look back on the overall experience you see the best of it all in spite of the worst of it all.

I love it when you talk about the cohesion of Angel Island. That was always my main thing when loving this game. It's SO well told.

I just found your channel and what luck it was this video as sonic is also my favorite franchise. Watched a few videos since and I really appreciate your candor, honesty and respect for your viewers intelligence. You've earned yourself a new fan here.

Definitely isn't perfect, but there's no doubt that it's had the best blend of the three pillars of any Sonic game. Other games may be more fun, but on a design level, and overall character, I think this game wins. I always go back to this game at least once a year to remind myself what it used to be like as a child and getting all these ideas for creating my own Sonic games (a hobby I had as a kid); the nostalgia factor for me in this game is heavy, and I accept that as a huge bias but, eh, it's a great feeling. In general it's difficult to compare classic to modern because they're too completely different beasts.

One of the few Sonic The Hedgehog 3 reviews I've seen that actually goes in depth, and isn't just a nostalgic circle jerk. While Mania does improve on Sonic 3 in a lot of ways, I still see Sonic 3 as the more complete game. The reliance on classic zones kinda killed that game for me, theme and story wise at least. I believe if Mania had completely original zones, that it'd stand out from the others more. Anyways, great video!

First... thanks for the last comment about Modern Sonic. I reeeeally needed that. I can't wait to see you talk about them in depth, but for now. I'm looking forward to your other stuff. And this was a really good summary, especially good pointer about those gimmick things. I think you made the best analysis of Classic Sonic I ever seen.

Very nice video! Sonic 3 still plays very well today. Great game and excellent video. Thank you!

“I hate Marble Garden.” Preaching to the choir there. Hate it more than 9 year olds with the spinning barrels in Carnival Night

"John Cena You can't see me wrecking balls." That just made my day.

I really like this video, man! I think it’s amazing to see people cover these games as deep as possible and I’m sad I never subscribed to you sooner.

I gotta be honest your videos are strangely engaging. like I actually watched 3 of your Zelda retrospectives in one sitting cause I enjoyed the analysis very much and actually get kind of excited when I see a new upload from you. good shit.

It's nice to see a game analyst on KZfaq who finds 3D Sonic to be "flawed, but fun" rather than "objectively terrible, how NOT to design a game". Looking forward to the eventual write up for that game, whenever that may come.

I think there's a ton of skill in the special stages. I love the Sonic 3 special stages and I found them a ton of fun :3

Really like the editing, coordination of text and screen content is spot on.

I don't really have much to add to this well-done critique, but I want to thank you for doing them. You made me consider the classic Sonic games in ways I never thought about before.

I just wanted to say that this channel makes me happy. There's a pretty decent lack of hype-free reviews of the classics, with most substantial reviews sitting between spastic 00's forum posts and a crumbling issue of EGM.

Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic 3 & Knuckles: Retrospective & Knuckles By KingK & Kunckles.

I just binged your retrospectives of sonic, and now I can no longer hold back. Allow me to take a break in the middle of the video to just go listen to the tracks.

First Super Mario Odyssey came out today and now a retrospective of Sonic 3 from the KingK himself? My day can't get any better than this.

32:56 This is EXACTLY how I felt playing this game for the first time 2 years ago. I though it was really solid and fun, but was a little disappointed that it wasn’t this perfect transcendent experience that I’ve heard so much about over the years

"We let the good parts of classic Sonic shine through. Why not let it happen for 3-D Sonic." Because Classic Sonic pumped out its entire run in the matter of a few short years, with no real complete and total blunders in the mainline series within that era. Modern Sonic can go a full decade between great titles, rendering its overall impression significantly dampened.

Great video Kingk been waiting for this sonic 3 video from you

Thanks for reminding me that I deserve to have fun. As a dad who works hard to run the household and provide a lot of time and space for my kids to have fun (which is often stressful for me) I really appreciate that you use that particular endcap. It's simple but meaningful.

Thank you for standing up for SA2, been seeing a lot of blowback on it the past few years, with the consensus being that it's flatout bad now.

No skill involved in the special stages? Wtf you talking about?

Beautifully made! Great Video!

Your content is the most wholesome it can be

"hydrahsitee" Oh boy here we go

Some problems are completely relatives to the Genesis. Framerate and widescreen were impossible at the time :/

Fantastic video! You made me want to play these again.

Love your videos man, keep it up!

30:54 "Sonic 3 is the perfect template for a classic Sonic game." This statement right here is the reason why I think most Sonic games past Sonic 3&K get so much flack. I'm by no means denying the fact that SA1 and SA2 are fun games that are worthy of their praise; clearly they were a financial success and are still very fondly remembered to those who grew up on those games. However, I do think it's undeniable that the formula for Sonic 3 was lost in translation to an extent. SA1 does have moments where it resembles classic Sonic in gameplay, but for the most part it starts to deviate from the combination of exploration and speed (obviously veering towards the latter) to the point where it starts feeling like a much more shallow ride, design wise. I haven't played SA2 yet, so I won't comment on it. In a way, this fundamental change in style didn't sit well at all with fans of the classic series, and I think a huge portion of the classic fans believe that these two titles were the catalysts for the design Sonic has toward the modern era, which understandably doesn't sit well with a lot of people. The point I'm trying to make is that when people say Sonic 3 was what the series should go back to, I believe they're strictly talking from the balance the series attained at Sonic 3. In my opinion, Sonic 3 was where the team was most confident and sure of how to make a good Sonic game. SA1 and SA2 (I assume) are quality, no doubt, but the variety of sub-par gameplay options combined with the slow shift away from exploration and more towards linear paths showed me that Sega sort of lost a grip on what to do with Sonic. It's far easier for people to forgive some bad zones and gimmicks in what they consider to be a fundamentally solid game, than for people to do the same for what they consider to be a shaky ride and a departure from why they loved the series in the first place. If I haven't made it abundantly clear, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who prefers the classic games. This is an entirely subjective field, so I'm just offering my perspective. I can completely understand why you'd prefer SA2, but I hope to think that this comment somewhat embodies why Sonic 3 has been held in such high regard throughout the years. This shouldn't be the basis for anyone to put down what you prefer, nor should it be the basis to ignore future titles for what they have to offer.

Yes thank you sonic adventure 2 battle is my favorite game of all time

You have made my day. Thanks!

Really loved your critique here, man! It actually tapped into some of the things I like and don't like with S3&K. I think I mentioned in your Sonic 2 vid that that game was my fave, and I appreciated the exploration in 2 over 3. Probably one of the reasons for that was just how well themed the levels were in 2, like you talked about here. With that theming comes not just extra power-ups & goodies but new chunks of level to explore, making exploration a real treat. I feel like 3 is a step back in that aspect since it mostly focuses on giving you power-ups as one of the only rewards for exploration. You don't often have levels in 3 where you get new bits of one to just run through, and it can make the experience feel more linear as a result. This is a balance that Mania actually achieves better than 3, and it makes me very excited to see what future 2D Sonic games will be like (assuming the same dev team will be making another one down the line). Gonna wrap this up by talking about SA2 as well. Played the Dreamcast Sonic games as a kid (even an embarrassing amount of Sonic Shuffle), but much like how I played S3&K to death as a kid, my time with SA2 really hit its stride with Battle on Gamecube. Even when I had stopped playing most other GC games, SA2B was one of the ones I always booted up, mostly because of the Chao Garden; the amount of hours sunk into that was ungodly, and I don't regret any of it. Nowadays, I appreciate SA1 more than SA2 (and there are some things that aggravated me about it after a recent playthrough), but I honestly can't stay mad at a game I spent that much time on. When the day comes, I'll be excited to see your critique on that game :>

The way you pronounce hydrocity is an atrocity! I’ll see myself out now

Ice Cap Zone is my favorite soundtrack from Sonic 3. It really reminds me of 90s pop-techno that was big during that time. Idk why, but I think about Ace of Base when I hear it.

and the thing I love about this game is that it has different routes, example: use Knuckles as your character, would change the entire storyline in the game and make it quite harder, and the bosses get harder too, and the final boss instead being "eggman" its mecha sonic (don't confuse it by metal sonic), most coolest boss in the classic sonic games

Keep up the good work! Awesome vid

I'm just glad you dropped the "& Knuckles" out during the review. It's a mouthful to say, and it makes no sense

Sonic and Knuckles final boss just as hard as the Sonic 2 final boss hell naw

Great review! Admittedly I have some problems with a few levels too and its not always fun to plough through them if there's not a whole lot of variety of platforming and running to do, especially in Marble Garden which goes all over the place. Though this is still one my favourite Sonic games next to Adventure 2, and I'm glad somebody else has taken a less biased view towards the series similar to what ExoParadigmGamer has done. Subbed!

S3&K is one of my favorite games ever, but I still love this video. It provided a lot of points I never thought about since I was a kid because of my ridiculous amount of experience with the game.

Okay here’s my thing with Sonic 3. Yes it is my favorite of the classics, mainly because of the scope and depth of the level design, but I do have one major problem that I feel started here, though later games definitely are bigger culprits. I feel this is when we started getting a little too much spectacle and speed became an expectation of the level design rather than a reward for skilled play. Sonic 3 has a lot of moments where you just watch something happen with minimum input, and though they’re over quickly, it becomes noticeable on multiple playthroughs. The running on water in Hydrocity, the Laser gates in Death Egg, Mushroom Hill’s thousand and one loops, it looks cool but it leads to my second point, building momentum in Sonic 3 is really easy compared to Sonic 2. 3 has a lot of sections specifically designed for Sonic to just run forward and look cool and the rolling physics aren’t as grounded in actual ball momentum as its predecessors. I can roll down a section and still fly across the water as if I were running. It doesn’t substantially hurt the game, but I feel it started the series in a direction that only got worse as it went on.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles = Greatest Sonic Game bar none.

I really like your analysis on the level design!

As ever a brilliant video it always gives me things to think about when playing these games. I still enjoy sonic 2 more as it was the game I played more growing up but I always loved ice cap. I like the music too and hope I can still here it the same after this! I actually played the 2d games and didn't play the 3D games as much if it all. Anyway a fantastic series that I'll be watching again and again

I respect your opinion. I was a little disappointed that you only really liked the game where I adore it. I agree on a lot of the flaws you mentioned although I like Marble Garden. The critique on the Barrel of Doom is completely justified though.

You can't end the retrospective here! You've got to sample freedom planet and give a small opinion piece on one of the few non sonic classic Sonic games before you change game genres!

I’ve really enjoyed these retrospectives on the 2d Sonic series. Surprisingly enough I’ve actually never played any of the 2d sonic games even though I’ve grown up playing all sorts of different 2d platformers (save for playing my Dad’s “plug-in play” Sega system that had classic sonic but I was pretty young and didn’t have the patience for the second stage). Really looking forward to your next video King! Good luck on the scripts!

Dude, i love your videos like this, and would love to see more objective views like this, on newer games! :)

I gotta say this is the most conflicted I've felt about a conclusion. On one hand, I don't believe I'll ever stand down from my belief that Sonic 3K is indeed a gold standard; a role model for 2D Sonic because I legitimately don't take issue with what you bring up (well, most of them anyways. Sandopolis is probably objectively bad). And yet your thesis is the statement I've been waiting for since who knows when; I agree to lay off the 3D Sonics, because I also think very highly of (some) 3D Sonics, and believe they too can serve as templates for fantastic video games, and not just fantastic Sonic games (shoutouts to Colors). I guess I'll just wait for your next ventures into the series.

This Hydrocity pronunciation is the one true path.

Your work is amazing.

Yes! Yet another trilogy analysed! Great work, but what's next?

DADDY KING K BACK WITH ANOTHER RETROSPECTIVE HELL YEAH

I _would_ call Carnival Night bad. Carnival Night is bad. There, I did it. Not quite the in depth criticism that you're giving, but hey I'm just commenting not making a video. (Fucking barrels scarred me for life)

This was a very good critical review of one of my favorite Sonic games.

This is a pretty great video & Knuckles

I love Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but the ways the game stops you for a set piece or a level paces itself with its gimmicks makes it hard for me to go back to, especially after playing Sonic Mania, which was paced super well (since it cut down on a lot of stop-and-go gimmicks). Off the topic of the video somewhat, but since a lot of people still consider S3&K as the best game: the level design for me is far more important than the theme of the level, since in Sonic's case, if you screw up the level design, you make the game less fun. I'd prefer all original zones, but I love what we got in Mania. We wouldn't get the god-like remixes or the proof-of-concept CD levels (showing how amazing CD could've been if they spent more time on level design), or the clever gimmicks in Chemical Plant and Oil Ocean. Sonic 3 is more cohesive, but Sonic Mania is a lot more fun and much better designed. I'll happily take the ladder.

I think hyper sonic cannot drown.

One of the rules of making a sonic game don’t name your zone with marble, it won’t end well.

Totally agree with your statements about 3D Sonic as a huge fan of the boost games, SA1, SA2, and Heroes.

Re: Mable Garden THANK YOU I always thought that was the dullest level but I would never quite articulate why.... I agree also on most of the gimmick obstacles, except for the rapelling lines in Sandolpolis- they're easy enough to skip but I do like the idea of having a controlled way to feel out a precipitous drop into what might be dangerous territory. The mushroom hill see saws I think were meant to take advantage of 2 player co op, I agree they don't work but it seems like an earlier focus on co-op got scaled back and they basically didn't know what else to do with the stuff they already made for it. I think the creators literally apologized for the barrel. For the longest time I could only see Ice Cap and beyond with the help of a game genie.

If i could describe my feelings when playing Sandopolis ACT 2 with a word it would be...anxiety... You have to be in watch for everything. Hanging on the light switch before the ghosts grow too much, the switches will give you limited time to get to the other side of the lever and things like the rising sand. You can't really afford to go fast freely like the last act, when you DO go fast, it's only because you are on a rush as if you were about to get to the time limit in your last life.

I've watched this video a couple of times. Your work is pretty impressive and your arguments sound. I'd love to see you and Josh from Geek Critique debate the merits of this game. His retrospective of the game is also impressive and his arguments are also sound. However, he does sum up the game with a pretty bold proclamation! :)

I still put this game in the G.O.A.T. pantheon. I'll keep my rose-colored glasses, thank you very much

I love S3&K. I grew up playing it and still to this day as a 32 year old consider it one of my favorite games of all time. When it comes to the Sonic series it and Mania (Plus) are definitely my favorites, tho SA1 and SA2 aren’t that far behind. But yea it’s not perfect, no game is. It has some parts that sort of drag the experience down like you mentioned. I honestly hated marble garden as well, Sandopolis was ehh, and I also wasn’t a big fan of Lava Reef. Great retrospective man. I enjoyed it!

Holy Chuckle Batman, this was a fast upload compared to the time between 1 and 2 as well as 2 and CD!

Yo that ice zone theme was my JAM! I completely forgot how much I loved this game as a kid 😍

A great video on a great game!!

I agree on pretty much every point you made, though I don't exactly hate Marble Garden despite its flaws.

15:30 Ice Cap does have bottomless pits. There might just be 1.

My favorite Sonic 2D game, very good review and very well explained.

I adored this game. It’s still my absolute favorite Sonic experience. In the modern world, Generations and Mania take the cake for me.

This has been a great take on the retro sonic games. I share in your frustration over the debate of the 3D sonic games as it has managed to irritate me a lot. Actually I grew very frustrated overall only quite recently in fact due to one argument that just rattled me. I feel as if this really shed some light on the originals in many ways and can see now the series as a whole has been inherently flawed from the start. Its just some have better elements than others. I definitely look forward to a future retrospective of the 3D sonic games because SA2 is my favorite sonic game next to SA1. However one game I have wanted to know more about is Sonic 3D blast which is another touchy subject, and doubtful if you will see this comment, but that is a game I feel could use some discussion at some point, but maybe it's not really worth making a video on, but like you I am open to a discussion about that.

Good video, dude. While I don't necessarily agree with everything, I get why someone like you would not like it as much as everyone else. Years ago, I was on the S3&K was overrated bandwagon partially due to Marble Garden Zone, but as I replay it more and more, the lesser zones don't really bother me as much as they should.

Fantastic content. Subscribed

I enjoyed these classic sonic videos. They were pretty cool