Special Episode: Wondering about Zionism with Haviv Rettig Gur

Рет қаралды 6,523

2 ай бұрын

What does Zionism mean to you? What does it mean to the Jewish people and the world at large? Noam and Mijal welcome special guest journalist Haviv Rettig Gur to delve into the history of Zionism as a means of survival for the Jewish people while pondering Western and Palestinian misunderstandings of Zionism. Don’t miss this thought-provoking episode about self determination, resilience, and Jewish identity.
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Пікірлер: 51

@williamstewart7725 2 ай бұрын

My last name is Stewart. That's no jewish. A Canadian. In another century I sat zazen with many American jews in LA. I'm appalled at the anit-semetic rhetoric that's entertained by citizens, broadcasters, and politicians I deeply appreciate your podcast and the amazing voice of Haviv Rettig Gur.

@SandraKanferClarke 2 ай бұрын

This has made something so clear! I grew up completely secular with no religious links, no ceremonies in my childhood, no Bat Mitzvah, nothing, but with all the history, and I have been so frustrated at the lack of understanding and historical knowledge amongst Americans and generally Anglo-Saxons. They don't know the history of the 20th century at all.

@galbar-or7851 2 ай бұрын

From Be'er Sheva to Belvedere my life has unfolded in random and wild ways, and in this difficult time I find your podcast(s) as well as Haviv's words to be a beacon of hope. Thank you for what you're doing.

@SP-nx8qx 2 ай бұрын

I am Greek and I get it, we also don't really tell our story. If you go to school in Greece (back when I did anyway, not sure now) the story was basically that we were always right and everybody else was wrong, but we prevailed because we are the children of Alexander the Great and ancient Greek philosophers. Which is a severely beautified version obviously, but every new country does it, I mean you want to get your kids excited and proud of their past. And yes in case anyone is wondering Greece is actually a relatively new country, founded a couple hundred years ago, after 400 years of Ottoman rule.

@Rexident97 2 ай бұрын

Hebrew culture is older than Ancient Greek also we don’t think that we are always right & everyone else is wrong that’s a childish way to look at the world.. I agree we need to tell our story better but that’s a different conversation

@SP-nx8qx 2 ай бұрын

@@Rexident97 Sure, but what's that got to do with anything, is this an oldest culture competition? LOL I didnt mean you do the same by the way. I mean that when countries tell their story the goal is not necessarily the raw truth, but to make people proud of their past and excited for their future. It's very common especially in young countries, and personally I don't find anything wrong with, people can study history later if they want the raw truth.

@babymonalisa Ай бұрын

@SP-nx8qx You are trying to reason with a supremacist. They don't value your opinion! 🤦🏻‍♀️

@kevinmogg6379 Ай бұрын

Good point. I think Haviv would be the first to admit that every new Nation State has a sort mythologized origin story that is told to children and a mass audience. Israel no exception. This is perhaps a necessary part of the process. Then a more serious study of history can expand to a more complex understanding that can be more useful when dealing with real world problems.

@babymonalisa Ай бұрын

@@kevinmogg6379 I think the problem with Israel is that they are about a century late to the party. The world has learnt from it's ugly past. It's not easy to wipe out an entire population's history and culture in the modern era. There are just too many receipts. It's not something waiting to be uncovered in future. Hasbara is being debunked in real time, not just by Palestinians who are living testaments to their history, but by good people all over the world who refuse to be silent.

@MrDominiquejr Ай бұрын

I wanna chip in on this podcast. My point is directed to the question posed to Prof. Gur about the difference between the Hamas Charter ‘vis-a-vis’ the Likud Manifesto. I think Prof gave a good answer but I want to look at it in a differnet perspective. The West fought tyranny and Nazism to rid the world of barbarism and entrench civilization. The banta (Nazi rallying call) was 1,000 years of the Reich which was actually (and interestingly) rebuffed by a similar ideology (British banta) to the effect may the British Empire reign for 1,000 years. As such, by parity of reasoning - and why the west should not be outraged by the Likud Manifesto ‘from the river to the sea’ being equally touted by the Hamas Charter - there cannot be a moral equivalence between the two ideologies. While Hamas have a barbaric connotation/understanding, Israel has a civilized connotation/undeppinnings. Neither can implement it like the other. Arabs have the most freedoms and exercise the most rights under Israeli leadership (Including the Knesset with Arab Mps or the Judiciary with Arab Justices and Executive with Arab Ministers) than any Arab Country. The same cannot be said of Israelis under Arabic Rule and we have plenty of examples in History.

@williamstewart7725 2 ай бұрын

I sheltered with a Yemenese jewish soldier on a sand dune in Nuwaba in the Sinai in the 1970's. He was a sweet dude. Those are my credentials for what its worth.

@rebeccat1456 2 ай бұрын

On my mom’s side we are Ashkenazi Jews that flex the pogroms in Eastern Europe in the late 1800s and early 1900s to the US. On my dad’s side we are Sephardic Jews who were expelled from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition, fled to Turkey, then Greece, then to the US in the early 1900s.

@hcwoolfgmailcom Ай бұрын

Ashkenazi DNA originates in Israel. Source - Wikipedia. I didn't know that until about 6 months ago.

@andrewackerley9985 Ай бұрын

fyi. Himalayan Sea Salt shimmers in the rock strata of northern India

@launchpad310 Ай бұрын

I'm 42, half-Jewish, very into world history/religions, and before October 7th I knew almost nothing about Jewish history beyond the Holocaust. It's been amazing to dive into the rich and diverse journey of the Jewish people, but there has been a major failure in telling the story to Americans.

@stephenl9463 Ай бұрын

Mijal can you please spell the name of the camp your father in law was born in 1949. Thanks

@stephenl9463 Ай бұрын

Found it: FOEHRENWALD

@71suns Ай бұрын

😩😩😩😩.... I'M A PERPETUAL VICTIM OF MY LIFE.... THAT'S MY CORE IDENTITY. WHO WOULD I BE WITHOUT IT 😩😩😩

@Matildapa 2 ай бұрын

Plz shed light on settlers - many people are talking bout mistreatment of people including in West Bank. What is your side of the story.

@jalemairliha 2 ай бұрын

I'll offer an opinion. The settlers are an issue but they're not the obstacle to peace. When Ps give up the idea that their lives depend on the complete destruction and takeover of Israel, Israel the state will happily negotiate borders, including some settler territory -- bc MOST Israelis actually believe Ps deserve their own state and will vote that way if they believe peace and safety will be assured. In other words, trying to "solve" the settler issue beyond managing settler issue is putting the cart before the horse. But what that would look like, in the end, is anyone's guess. IMHO.

@sandy_of_jox Ай бұрын

I listened to a talk with Haviv, maybe via the Times of Israel podcast, where he partly addresses these concerns by reminding that complete withdrawal for peace (which hasn't worked previously) is not an option, as anyone with a rocket launcher on their shoulder and bad intentions has the most or only elevated position from which to fire missiles directly in to Tel Aviv and other Jewish cities. Ceding that ground gives the Jen O'Cidal ones the perfect leverage to cause untold civilian deaths, so to an extent, the settlements remain necessary. Completely poor paraphrasing on my part, but that was the sober gist that I gleaned from it.

@babymonalisa Ай бұрын

The settlers are deranged and cruel. That's why they are hated. It's not about "people are saying". Listen to the settlers themselves and observe thier actions, then make your own judgement. MSM has turned a blind eye to this evil for decades, but the world has learnt a LOT since October.

@andreskorge1828 Ай бұрын

Truth and Justice is the Cutting edge !! Means they Must go.

@babymonalisa Ай бұрын

@@sandy_of_jox In other words, stop the resistance so we can continue stealing your land in peace. Makes perfect sense when you are the thief!

@user-tb1lq5gw4x Ай бұрын

Today I was told by a Muslim student girl. Thet there are no innocent Israeli.in any age. And I'm a Levant Native Jewish girl 18 years old.go's back from my mother family side more than 2400 in this land.and when they are saling saying from the river to the sea the meaning is final solution. And Noam? When Bibi said no Palestinian state. He didn't mean killing them he mean thetbsuch a state will be much worse than Gaza

@diandenmark Ай бұрын

What do you answer to those Palestinian Arabs who say - Yes, I know Israel is a nation of refugees - but (a) even though some of us have participated in persecution of Jews, it shouldn't be our responsibility to give up what we think is ours to help the Jews ... and/or (b) we have accepted having to give some of what we believe is ours to the Jews but they have abused our hospitality ... they are too dominating And what do you say to people like Mahmoud Abbas (Abus Mazen) who say that Jews are expelled from everywhere because of bad behavior? - and to just ordinary people who say .... hmmm, there must be a Reason for Jews being expelled .... PS-1 - I am a huge fan of Haviv Rettig Gur and have not yet heard him address these two particular issues. PS-2 - I would love to hear Haviv talk about "the pull", too - WHY the Jewish state (Medinat Israel) needs to be in the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel).

@lizberezin2919 Ай бұрын

The second question - you explain the real reason, that chiristianity saw jews as guilty of jesus's death, and then transferred this guilt to everything that was wrong, like the plague, of which there jews were also blamed. And it's not true about being expelled from all places (that's a modern day antesimitic lie, you can search for it and find the name of the nazi who came up with it) - in non christian places, like the Arab countries, India, China, the jews lived relatively ok for a minority. And what was the bad behavouir of which the jews are suposedly guilty of? Killing young children to use their blool for matza? Please.... Being active in the revolution that displaceded the tzar and put bolsheviks to govern Russia? Well, there were many other minorities active in that as well (Stalin was Georgian), but their involvement was minimized to put the light only on the jews. Just believe that the jews did nothing wrong in history, and be sure of yourself.

@lizberezin2919 Ай бұрын

The first question - you reply to them that the outlook should be forward facing, not backwards facing. This is how things are in our reality, and we can only go from here, we cannot go back in history so the Palestinians get what they "believe" is theirs. They are not requested to "give up what we think is ours to help the Jews", the jews have managed just fine, thank you very much. The jews took what the world offered to them (they were ready to take much less based on the UN partition decision), and made the best out of their cards. Now the Palestinians should do the same - take the hand they've been dealt and play it to the best of their abiities, for their children's future. They keep trying to restore the honor of their grandfathers that was supposedly lost in 1948, and that gets in the way of their own future. Hospitality and dominating.... please. They want to kill the jews and the jews won't let them, that's all the domination there is.

@stephenl9463 Ай бұрын

I can think I own the world but it doesn’t make it so. The Arabs don’t own the Middle East. They certainly don’t own Israel. Jews have been there much longer than the Arabs (from Saudi ARABia) and the Muslims (622AD). It’s the Jews that are giving up land to be generous. You’ll find all your answers in history books.

@kimcarsons7036 Ай бұрын

All power to the Houthis !

@babymonalisa Ай бұрын

Amen to that! 🙏✌️💕🇵🇸

@lizberezin2919 Ай бұрын

The houthies reinstated slavery, but who cares, as long as they shoot rockets at the Jews from time to time, right? Go buy a slave in their market to support them.

@stephenl9463 Ай бұрын

Houthis are despicable. They keep slaves and run slave markets. Educate yourself.

@leothelemonboy1495 2 ай бұрын

I am anti-zionist for a very simple reason I don't think Isreal is going to survive the very hard test of time in other words "don't put your faith in nations and armies" I don't think Isreal as a state will survive the ever changing world we live in, especially considering how the views of the world change when it comes to Isreal I think it's time for us to let go of nationalism and try to fight for our rights globally as for what happens to Isreal, it's very simple to me if Isreal keeps relying on the western powers it will lead to self-destruction right now Isreal is invincible thanks to it's allies but now imagine a world where such allies don't exist, I will leave you to imagine that future for yourself.

@aiinesk 2 ай бұрын

Then you are Anti-Baltic states as well... And Anti-Ukrainian too... Basically, you are Anti-Everyone-Who-Has-Less-Power. And you are very much Pro-Powerful-States no matter if they are right or wrong 🤷‍♀️

@xtrajently Ай бұрын

You have a lot of very questionable assumptions. If you care about the validity of your argument, I’d suggest you go over them.

@victormeidan1062 Ай бұрын

So 10 million Israelis are simply going to vanish ?

@andreskorge1828 Ай бұрын

@@xtrajently Israel built on lie Lies, bullying hasbara and theft +++ sustain it Unfortunate and shameful BUT True

@shoshanakirya-ziraba8216 Ай бұрын

I am a Jew who lives in Uganda. We love Israel but don't want to live there. 😊

@alessandrosimas3977 10 күн бұрын

This guy justifies the Israeli campaign ("don´t sound evil... Israel did fairly well" !!!????) which he characterizes as war, when only one side has air capabilities... Unbelievable! Shameless!

@user-vq9dh8hh2l Ай бұрын

Fantastic podcast of highly intelligent, informed, but not nearly well-informed enough intellectuals. A conversation which demonstrates rational thought with basic enduring delusional thought. Ironically, Haviv's "in Arabic it's 'Palestine' will be ... Arab" demonstrates this realistic + delusional, lazy thinking. Just as, indeed,the wish is not to be free, actually, not even to be Arab, but to be Dar el Islam--the House of Submission. No less!! Certainly, it's not to be "Palestinian." For, as Zohair Mokhsein explained, there's no such thing as "Palestinian" People. There is only an Arab People. The rebranding of these Arabinians as "Palestinians"is a weapon against Zionism. Actually, initially, "Palestinian" with its copy paste Jordanian flag was a double Identity Theft attempt (of the Hashemite Kingdom which had been imported from Saudi and of the partitioned land of Israel). That is a point which Haviv makes and then destroys (with the lazy use of the word "Palestine"). AND THAT IS REALLY CRAZY SH...T about which there is a choice: Stop affirming the verbal weapon , "Palestinian." If not "Arabinians" or West Jordanian, request an Arab word for a 23rd Arab State. And Gaza for the 24th Arab State. Dr Kedar's Arabinian Emirates could become the out of the box rational plan. Look it up!😎

@andreskorge1828 Ай бұрын

Anything to justify. But built on a Lie. to up your Hasbara see the Middle East Policy Council on Hasbara - 120+ booklet available