Another difference between Shimano and SRAM shifters is XT and XTR can release two gears ie upshift two gears with one push of the thumb. And Shimano will shift to higher gear as soon as it clicks whereas SRAM shifts only after you release the upshift paddle.

For anyone with the chain ticking issue, try reducing the chain gap with the B limit cog. (Get that jockey wheel closer to the cassette, as close as possible without negatively effecting shifting) I always dealt with the chain trying to jump out of the middle of the cassette. One day, without the chain gap measurement tool, I decided to play with the b-limit screw and see how shifting was affected moving the jockey closer and farther away. I found going closer to the cassette cleaned up the shifting perfectly. No idea what the measurement is, but no more ticking. Kind of a back of the napkin kind of solution, I realize you’re supposed to measure it. But a lot of us just like to play with things on the fly. That’s what I found worked for me.

I prefer Sram drivetrains, really enjoying the ease and performance of AXS. However, I like Shimano brakes for the same reasons you mentioned. The heat dissipation has never been an issue for me as I ride mostly XC flow trails where there aren't too many long descents. BTW, I appreciate your insightful videos.

My setup the past few years has been GX Eagle for going and XT for stopping. Seems to work pretty well. If I had to choose gun to head I'm going all XT on my next bike.

I can't get SRAM brakes off a new bike fast enough, and the only SRAM drivetrain I've owned was a GX setup which was fine at first but then started making a noise which never went away despite every part being replaced. Installed an SLX drivetrain which performed flawlessly, never looked back.

Got a bike with SRAM GX. Love it but was surprised by the poor performance of the Guide R brakes that came with it. Replaced with Shimano XT brakes and am super happy with my setup.

Great information as always - love the channel. Thank you!

When I just bought my Tallboy, the shop allowed me to choose my group set. I choose the XT shifters and the Code brakes. It’s been a great combo so far.

My GX EAGLE rear derailleur/cassette tick in 6th gear as well. Glad to hear it's not just me I've tried everything to tune it out.

The drive train tick would be deal killer for me. I prefer mechanical shifting. I wish that they would offer 12 speed mechanical on road groups. A 12 speed GRX group was spied at unbound and it was mechanical. Hopefully it will make it to production. For multi day adventure rides it’s nice not to have to worry about batteries. We have enough stuff in our lives that has to be recharged! 😂

Thanks for this overview video! I have not used an MTB groupset since Deore DX. Love that system...so robust.

For the drivetrain I love shimano. I think the consistency you explained on the brakes is also found in their drivetrains. I had the experience that I had to go at least with GX eagle for it to work without issues longterm. On my current bike I have a complete deore drivetrain with only an xt shifter and it seems bulletproof and feels like a full xt to me. With brakes I just stay away from dot fluid and I went with the formula cura.

Just one technical point about brake fluid - DOT brake fluid vs Mineral oil don't really manage heat differently, it's that DOT brake fluid absorbs water and the boiling point slowly rises, where mineral oil will stay separated from water, leaving water to pool in the lowest point (caliper), which will heat up and could vaporize which could cause the brake to lock up or squishy lever feel. As long as there is no moisture in your lines it's a non-issue, regular brake bleed maintenance will solve the problem in either case.

Many thanks Clint for your inputs, well informative and entertaining from my end, BTW I use Shimano XT 12s on my drivetrain and brakes SRAM RSC G2 super happy with it..

Great video, Clint.

Great review and great points to consider! Thanks.

Shimano is king in the budget segment (Deore, SLX) brakes and shifting. Sram below GX is no good. GX vs XT and up kind of the same. Brakes... I wouldn't touch anything other than Code RSC, there is no power in anything below that. Shimano on the other hand, even Deore is just fine.

One of my bikes is SRAM and the other Shimano. I've never experienced that ticking thing on my SRAM GX, It's flawless. My SLX is flawless too.

Not to mention SRAM comes at a premium when compared to similar Shimano components. I guess budget matters more to some.✌️

Fun fact: Shimano bike parts are like 5% of revenue where as fishing is 45% so probably the reason they have not kept up with sram. Nowadays it's Axs sram drivetrains and Shimano brakes with fox suspension. Scott bikes does a nice job of mixing the two in that exact way.

Having never owned a bike with SRAM, this video was extremely helpful.

If i could mix the triggers i would keep the double up shift with the pull feature from Shimano and the 5 gear downshift SRAM has. Also, on your Shimano equipped bike, move your triggers so that you're able to pull the trigger with your index without moving your index finger to the side at all. When I'm upshifting my index is on that trigger and when I'm downshifting my index is either covering the back brake or relaxing on the grip while my thumb does the downshifting. It helped my riding so much

In the process of building a bike, never used SRAM components but was going to give them a try... Yikes on brakes!!! I usually have Shimano mineral oil all over the place when I work on my brakes!!! Going to return the SRAM brakes and invest in Shimano brakes and keep the SRAM drivetrain. Thanks for the video and information!!!

I’m all in in XT. However TRP evo has peaked my interest bigly

I also find, the shimano is little more smoother in it's shifting.

Awesome vid Clint thank you!!! I run a 12 speed sramano drive train and love it...I have an xt drive train with the gx eagle axs derailleur,it shifts fast and crisp,easy wheel reinstall,have it set up like xt xtr multishift...Only issue that I had was the b screw set up,the supplied b set up tool doesn't fit shamano cassettes so I found a plastic tab on the tool that prevents it from fitting the cassette properly so I just ground it off on my bench grinder and presto it fits awesome only bummer is you still need 2 people to set it up because sram wants it set up in sag position,its impossible to do while sitting on the bike...Cheers!!!

So true about the one ticking gear and Sram. Have had that on 3-4 bikes. It doesn't happen with ASX though.

You should look at the boiling point of DOT vs Mineral Oil...they are similar, but when DOT gets any moisture the boiling point plummet...

I am running Shimano, and honestly it is because I have ALWAYS used it. I have never had a bike with SRAM.

Hey Clint, I’m with you on Shimano brakes. Also I have avoided SRAM drivetrains since back in the day when I had the SRAM 11 speed, that when you backpedaled in low gear, even a ratchet stroke, the chain would drop and I would have to stop and fix it, extremely annoying. Anyway I’ve held a grudge against SRAM ever since, until now that I’ve ordered my new e-bike with the SRAM transmission.

Love my XX1 🌈 cassette with X01 shifter and derailleur 👌🏼

Hi, I use gx groupset for drivetrain (also have ticking noise....), but performance is great. For stopping power shimano deore. As you said - braking performance is same as in expensive xt, but its heavier. For average rider it is perfect setup. 😊

Don't have a lot of experience with both but my bike came with SRAM GX drivetrain and Shimano brakes and I love the combo. I love how quickly the brakes engage and how I don't have to pull the levers very far to get to full power. I have a new bike (tandem MTB) coming with Magura brakes and I've heard that they are powerful but somewhat squishy and I'm a little worried I'm going to have to change them out soon after it arrives. My SRAM shifting has been rock solid and I don't have a ticking problem as far as I can tell. I also have Di2 on another bike and it is also really good. I'd say the drivetrains are virtually equal but I like Shimano brakes.

i am surprised that no one has mentioned about shimano shifting better and more smoothly UNDER LOAD

I had experience with two SRAM brake systems being a pain to bleed. For the fact the rear brake was on both, always never easy to get right. I went from code to code R, the install process to replace the brake lines/calipers/levers went fine, it was the stupid bleed. After SEVERAL runs of running fluid to waste, I finally ignored the things you do to rid of air in the syringe and the caliper, I focused only pulling bubbles from the levers, I FINALLY HAVE WORKING REAR BRAKES!! OMG what a pain in the a$$. Shimano looks easy in comparison, but I haven't had to bleed my Shimano brakes on my hardtail. As far as braking performance and preference... eh toss up for me.

Death to electronic shifting. In the 30+ years I've been moutain biking, my shifter cables have never 'died' due to lack of charge. (They've also worked essentially flawlessly the entire time. And I only get 1 tune a year...)

SRAM does have mineral oil brakes now, the DB8, and they're pretty good. I have them on my Fezzari Delano. On my other 2 bikes one has Shimano brakes and the other has the traditional SRAM brakes with DOT fluid so I have 3 different types and I like them all but if I had to pick one I would still pick the Shimano mainly for the mineral oil. I don't like handling DOT fluid.

Shimano ONLY for me. I love XT shifter can shift 2 gears harder with 1 press. The Sram rear derailleur seems too easy to chain slap. I prefer the Shimano clutch. Brakes, I agree with you Word for word. If I'm buying a bike, and it only comes Sram, I ain't buying it. Period. Awesome video! PS, mechanical rules.

I love my Shimano rapid rise rear derailleur. Shifting is buttery smooth & precise as it was when new 18 years ago. Too bad they no longer make them.

In my experience of using both brands for years, I've always found the Shimano's lower tier products like basic Deore (drivetrain and brakes) to be very good, functional and reliable. Whereas SRAM lower tier stuff (e.g. SX, Level, or back to the old X3/X5 ranges) has always fallen short for me. As you get up to the higher tier stuff XT/GX, they start to get a lot closer for me and then it's really just personal preferences.

Oh wow! I thought I was the only person who had shifting issues on the SRAM cassette. Same thing, 4th or 5th cog would sometimes not catch. I can confirm it is the cassette and not the derailleur since it happens on my mtb (GX derailleur and cassette) and my gravel bike (GRX derailleur and SRAM 11sp cassette) so this is definitely a SRAM thing.

Another problem with DOT fluid is its hydroscopic.

Good vid.. XT brakes / GX drivetrain 🙌

SRAM released their DB8 mineral oil breaks about a year ago, so there is that option. Personally, I don't like either one of them when it comes to brakes, and we are very lucky to have many better alternatives at a wide range of prices, from the likes of Magura, TRP, Hayes and so on. On my personal bikes it's SRAM AXS/Transmission and Magura brakes.

Thank you for sharing.

I'm quite budget-conscious about buying parts, and i'm heavy and my grip strength is trash, and shimano always offered what to me seems like the best combo: strong braking from the first touch, which i like, somewhat affordable prices, and very widely available spare parts, which is important if you live in the third world like me. besides that, i alredy got 1 litre of shimano fluid, so i can be confident if i go out for a mtb week to the mountains, brakes will not let me down

There’s a few vids online that show how to fix that GX clicking sound. Basically find the tooth that the chain is catching on and then bend the tooth with some needle nose pliers

I just got a Shimano Xt setup after 20+ years of SRAM. The shifting seems more definitive but takes more effort to shift. Becomes a little unpleasant when the arms and hands get tired. Haha!

I've always had the luck of getting Shimano brakes. I don't want to mess with DOT. I run MTX red label pads. They have better modulation without giving up power. The heat resistance (on XT ice-tech rotors) seems as good or better than finned pads and they don't rattle. They don't squawk either. Shimano organics are quiet but I'd have to deglaze them multiple times even in MN's short season. Going on my second season with the MTX and they rarely make a sound with no intervention.

Shimano for the win. Just easier to work with and from old to new from 105 and Ultegra mechanical to Di2 shifting is so smooth and consistent plus better brake feel and also no disc brake rub with Shimano.

Some of these differences carry over to lower grade stuff as well. I had an 11sp sram apex trigger shifter that was thumb push only up and down. Shimano deore 11 sp has the index pull for up shifting, which is preferable for me. I also like the shimano brakes better, mostly due to better rotor clearance, and I'm talking the lower end MT 200 brakes.

To me, Shimano 12sp shifts like butter. I feel the advantage of sram 12sp is no clutch maintenance. I was surprised when shimano didn’t address this when they released 12sp. We had a 12sp XTR fail in warranty but they just said, “too bad, so sad”. I replaced with an X0 rear derailleur and shifter and now no clutch maintenance. I happily live with the trade offs of mineral oil (Shimano) brakes. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.

Like you, Clint, I don't like working with DOT fluid; and so my disc-brake bikes have always been Shimano. I hear that that SRAM can be a real pain with regard to disc rub. Having said, I had terrible issues with the Dura Ace black-fin rotors, which went out of true every single ride. Now I use Hope floating rotors, which rarely go out of true. After hard descents they make a pinging noise as they cool. My CX bike has a threaded BB. The SRAM BB version, I see from countless reviews, has really poor durability. This is what made me opt for Shimano. I just wish Shimano would make it easier to replace the rear wheel.

I am having Shimano brakes and drivetrain for years. I noticed that the brakes can have “turkey” sound effect sometimes. So I put Galfer rotors and pads and no surkey noise

Thank you! I'm not crazy! That little in between shifting of that one cog was driving me nuts! LOL So I had never has Sram before, but, all three of the mechanics in my bike shop are Sram fan boys. They suggested I try it on my new build, so I went with a whole GX drivetrain. Well, to their surprise, I hated it! It felt sluggish for some reason, it felt like there was a dude behind me with a rope tied around my waist, holding me back. I didn't like the gears Sram uses on their cassette. I found myself shifting A LOT more, and I just felt like I could never quite find the right gear that I wanted. So, back to Shimano I went! And this time, I went with all XT, and I LOVE this drivetrain! I am a Shimano man through and through! Except for brakes... I went with TRP Slate Evo's and so far, I like them. Thanks for another great video man! I've been enjoying your channel since back when you did reviews on the Giant XTC Advanced. It was one of the only places I found reliable information on that bike, so I bought one, and really enjoyed it for a couple of years.

Why do I want full wireless shifting when I still have brake hoses which have to run from the bars anyway? For me, that Shimano still has the win because they offer wired shifting. I charge 1 battery and everything works vs 2 shall batteries and 2 coin cells.

I found I had to be waaaaay more picky about derailleur hanger alignment with SRAM. I literally just found my XT derailleur loose. The mounting bolt was a couple turns out. Still shifted great. I like both, like you said. But it’s probably related to the complaint you have with sram.

Thanks!

I think all of your comments are fair at the top end of each manufacturer's product offering. For the lower to mid-level end of the component range Shimano is waaaay better. Compare both performance and durability of Deore 12-speed to SRAM SX or even NX it's not even close. I'd even take Shimano 11-speed Deore without hyperglide + over SRAM SX maybe even NX for its better reliability. Like you said about the brakes, Shimano is way more consistent, with the inexpensive models performing almost on par with the top tier stuff except for weight and the odd feature.

Back in the late 90s I had all Shimano XTR or XT. Now I am a big fan of SRAM, even went to AXS. However, for brakes I stick with Shimano XTR or XT because that's what I am used to. I only ride XC so I don't have the heating problems that would require me to run DOT fluid. If I did down hill I would probably go with SRAM.

The ticking noise drives me crazy!

FYI SRAM has their DB8 brakes that are mineral oil. Also they own Tektro which also uses mineral oil if my memory serves me right. I like both brands as far as shifting, but like you I prefer Shimano's use of mineral oil. I had my rear brake lever leak and squirt fluid onto my frame w/o any damage to the finish. A friend's SRAM caliper had a leak develope around one of the pistons and the paint on his frame started to peel.

Love my Sram AXS with Magura brakes !

You can fix the SRAM gear click by finding the 1 tooth on the cassette that is cause the chain to come slightly unconnected and then bending it outwards slightly with a screw driver. Plenty of you tube videos on it. Seems like a SRAM cassette GX manufacturing issue when pinning the cassette together as I believe this rarely happens on X01 and XX1

I Run Saints On my CF Warden 220/203 MTX Reds 3wt. Maxima Fluid . Stops Amazing . I Ride Vancouver Daily 😎

For me, I go Sram drivetrain, Magura braking- you get the modulation, the mineral oil, and the innovation. That said, Sram does make a mineral oil brake (the low tier DB8) mainly for OEM markets, but Yeah, I didn't like working with DOT either.

I also have the SRAM ticking noises. This happens because one of the cassette gear teeth is too close to the higher gears, which prevents the chain from engaging that upper gear. I managed to reduce it by finding the problematic tooth and bending it just enough so that it won’t catch the chain on every rotation. Never buying SRAM again.

I thought I was the only one with the problem you mentioned about that cog in Sram Eagle drivetrain. I was never able to index that speed correctly.

DOT fluid doesn't dissapate heat better, it's viscosity doesn't change much due to heat. However it's probably overkill for a bike I would imagine. Half the stuff on bikes these days just seem like gimicks that are less robust, harder to repair and often incompatible.

I use shimano for my drive train and sram code for my breaks and i love them both for their propective objective. Sram code for me the modulation and its fit for enduro dh,shimano for drivetrain for the shifting performance

I have never had a problem with Shimano brakes or shifters/gears. Im currently running Sram brakes and transmission. Front derailleur is badly worn for the mileage and needs replacing. Brakes I hated at first due to constant rubbing and binding but once I learnt how to properly bleed them, I love them. Nice and progressive feel to them and no issues. Would not make any difference to making a choice when choosing a new bike. Both are good.

AXS also has the push-to-upshift button on the controller. I have my old cabled XX1 eagle on my enduro bike and I am always reminded how big of a leap forward the AXS is. You don't have to charge the battery (once every 3 months) but you have to change the cables when they clog and stretch. I adjust it more often that I charge the AXS batteries. When clean and adjusted they work similarly, I don't miss my easy gear changes from the AXS that much. But when they get dusty or muddy, the AXS breaks no sweat and continues to work like charm, while the eagle starts to struggle, miss changes, grind more before changing. I don't think that XTR matches XX1 in any way - they are 2.5 generations behind, they even lack carbon cranks. I hate Shimano for slacking so much - this allows SRAM to charge 3200 euro (and even more in dollars I suppose) for just the 'transmission'! They just have no competition there :( I agree that the XC brakes are comparable. I was considering XTR dual pistons - the lightest brakes with more power than the Levels (that sux). But I got G2s on my new bike, and even if heavy they perform much closer to the Codes that I have on my enduro bike than the Guides I had on my stumpjumper before. They are slight overkill for XC but I don't want to spend that much on a couple of grams and lose braking performance (and modulation). btw. I service my brakes and I had no problems touching DOT. Of course I rinse everything soon after it spills but so far no issues with my hands or paint. Mineral oil does not absorb the moisture from the air leaving it in contact with the piston and the lines that may corrode.

Had the low end on my bikes for years, before deciding to upgrade. When it comes to that side of things, Deore 12 is way better than NX. it's not just that middle cog, but that thing is annoying enough on its own. So now fortunate to have XT , and didn't bother to check GX. If the ground floor is crooked, I'm not renting upstairs .

Got the sram gx and guide brakes on a whyte 909 and have found them to be excellent , back pedal no problem . Have not even had to adjust anything for 1 Yr except new brake pads. I upgraded a bike to sram nx previously and found a struggle especially with the back peddling. Am currently building a new bike and gonna gibe the nx another go as I believe the issues are mostly to do with chainline and stuff . Basically my errors :) I'm building another bike 2x10 using shimano sunrace and raceface :) and getting the front derailleur good is a dam nuisance for me :)

I prefer the Shimano for a few reasons based on my experiences with both. Reliability and simpler design. Why do you need a narrow-wide jockey wheel on an XX1 derailleur? After a couple of aggressive bumps and the chain skips to the wrong tooth segment, what a racket (then stop, adjust the chain to sync with the proper tooth and try to ride the smoothest line only). Shifts are slightly quicker on SRAM, however any seasoned rider is looking ahead (to survey the trail conditions) and selects the proper gear well before a panic situation (that nano second saved isn't much of a factor). Now, on shifting to a larger cassette cog under load, Shimano is far and away superior across all levels. Lastly, if you are a home mechanic, Shimano is far easier to work on with mostly standard tools and common sizes. Getting out there to ride is the most important thing, which brand is splitting hairs, but I've had much less grief with one over the other.

Some perfectionest probably don't like the combine of two systems. As I found XT brakes works better on me while I prefer the shifting of sram, currently using a gold xx1 12 speed.

Shimano XT shifter/derailleur with Magura MT-5 Brakes. Sram X01 cassette. Sram XX1 chain. ( No center cassette issues with Shimano's B-gap design. )

I know some people take a file and take some material off the teeth of their SRAM cassette to get rid of the ticking. Usually it's only a couple of teeth on the problem cog.

My SRAM brakes are mineral oil, they’re the DB8 and came on my new bike, I do prefer the Shimano brakes on my hard tail though they seem to modulate better.

Using the best of both worlds! Shimano Brakes (DOT fluid sucks for the DIY mechanic like me). 12-speed Shamono XT cassette and chain with GX Eagle AXS electronic derailleur. The ShaRAMo Drive train works flawlessly

SRAM DB8 brakes use mineral oil. I looked at an XT equipped Trek Top Fuel 9.6 with DB8s. Then my Fuel EX came with Tektro Orion brakes. The have EBC pads with nice modulation.

I'll take SRAM for drivetrain, and Shimano for brakes.

SRAM does have the DB8’s which is mineral oil based braking system. I’m a sram guy so DOT fluid isn’t a dealbreaker over the performance.

Clint, I have been using the SRAM AXS Eagle XX1 drivetrain components for the last three years and I have always had one cog on the cassette (second largest cog) that stubbornly does not want to function as well as the other 11. I have tried micro adjusting dozens of times, but it's always the same cog that doesn't work quite as well

After having two Shimano derailleurs fail thanks to the over engineered clutch mechanism I prefer the simple and effective sprung pin of the SRAM derailleur. The problems with the Shimao clutch is that it is extremely delicate for such a harsh environment and is prone to water and grit ingress.

I never use the 52 tooth so on my latest bike I went with the 11 speed sram xx1

I never noticed the sram tick noise on either of the 2 NX 12 speed drivetrains I've had... maybe it only applies to GX and above? For brakes i really like Magura... mineral oil, good modulation, and loads of power.

I really feel the biggest difference in these two drivetrains are the shifting and the ability to shift under load. With the shimano xt and xtr you can shift under load. You can now with the new SRAM transmission

I have Sram GX AXS groupset on my Trek rail 9.8 and Shimano XT groupset on my Trek Slash 9.8. Its not even close Shimano wrecks. The hyperglide + system makes the shifting so much smoother and better. Sram feels very rough, snappy and loud. Sure its not bad, like its not like you are buying crap. Its still decent, but it can not even be mentioned in the same league as Shimano XT. I have not tried T type variants yet, heard they are smoother. But for now Shimano XT all day for me.

Shimano shifts and brakes better and doesn’t require as much adjustment even at their deore level it’s still good. Had to adjust the derailleur on every sram I’ve ever had more that with any shimano.

Based on my limited experience and now your awesome video here I have some conclusions. SRAM is for the younger, faster downhill rider who lives near a bike shop. Shimano is for people who maintain their own bike, don’t have extended fast downhill trails or who may take the trail less than suicidal speed. I didn’t realize the bite of the shimano brakes until you pointed it out. My current bike has SRAM with the mineral oil and I thought that they were lighter than my shimanos on my previous bike. The shop I bought it from said that they are more powerful than the shimanos but I didn’t see it. Now I realize that the comparison I was thinking about was the initial bite you described. I do prefer there more consistent performance for feathering that the SRAM provides but I am put off that you need a special tool just to modify it. I don’t live near a bike shop, don’t have the confidence to maintain my own bike so I like durability and reliability. The shimano trivetrain has been bulletproof for me so I will stick with that. However I am leaning toward staying with SRAM on the brakes. Do they have a mineral oil version with a tool-less option?

Does SRAM have the ability to do multiple downshifts into harder gears with one push like Shimano does, where you can push the lever a little extra hard and get second gear out of it? I know my older SRAM didn't. Another interesting difference is that Shimano offers two different cassette gear ranges. Although I don't think I know anyone who uses the second option.

Shimano brake levers are the deciding faktor for me. They hook the fingers nicer.

Deore does have the push pull shifter

Mineral oil in the winter can have issues though right? For fat biking

The cassette stagger is also different between sram and shimano. Sram has a huge gap between the 42 and 52 pinion. I also prefer the bite of shimano brakes

Would love to see your thoughts testing the sramano hybrid setup, everything shimano but with AXS derailleur and shifter. Everyone raves that it's the smoothest optimized setup, so I'd love to know if it worth doing on my own build!

I have both systems and on my xc bike with shimano, i almost exclusively pull up shifts with my index

For expensive brakes I go sram, cheaper I go shimano. Drivetrain currently have shimano on both my bikes but have had sram previously and do love the lock out, if you take axs out of the picture I would probably buy shimano 9 out of 10 times (unless I wanted wireless)

I have that ticking sound too on my SRAM GX but thought it was just me not knowing how to tune it correctly. It is so annoying that I really want to switch to XT but it just isn't enough of a justification to go through the expense of that.