STAR TREK Logical Thinking #45 - Composition & Division Fallacies

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CHDanhauser

Жыл бұрын

Educational PSA where Mister Spock (from the Mirror Universe) corrects some crewmembers after overhearing them employing a logical fallacy in their discussions.
Had NBC decided to teach principles of sound reasoning in the mid-1970's they could do no better than to have the logical Mister Spock do the teaching. As an addition to the the two-dozen or so Public Service Announcements I created featuring the animated crew of the Starship Enterprise, I have created a new series of PSAs featuring Mr. Spock called "Logical Thinking." Using the Vulcan science officer to educate them in proper reasoning is "Only Logical" as he states at the end of each PSA.
Done in the style of Filmation's 1973-75 Animated STAR TREK series.
More more information see: www.danhausertrek.com/AnimatedSeries/Logic.html

Пікірлер: 68
@richardjohnson9543
@richardjohnson9543 Жыл бұрын
Wonderful! And now we know what Chekov would've looked like had he appeared in TAS
@davemarx7856
@davemarx7856 Жыл бұрын
Based on the Thumbnail, I know I'm gonna like it. Now return to your duties.
@aquariandawn4750
@aquariandawn4750 Жыл бұрын
The thumbnail was the logical choice.
@davemarx7856
@davemarx7856 Жыл бұрын
Yes but it made me sad that one of the two constant tropes for mirror universe logic videos was dropped - there was no "...IF I may continue."
@PlasmaCoolantLeak
@PlasmaCoolantLeak Жыл бұрын
Return to your duties, or spend an hour in the agony booth.
@MatthewCaunsfield
@MatthewCaunsfield Жыл бұрын
I think Mirror Spock went very easy on them both! Not even a little use of the agoniser? 😈
@thelaughinghyenas8465
@thelaughinghyenas8465 Жыл бұрын
Very enjoyable and logical, as always. Thank you very much for another lesson. PS, I always liked bearded Spock.
@haywoodjohnson2865
@haywoodjohnson2865 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for posting
@jtkirkfan2002
@jtkirkfan2002 Жыл бұрын
"...That would be best. Now, both of you, into the booth for slacking off."
@leovalverde1508
@leovalverde1508 Жыл бұрын
Mirror Spock should have used the agonizer on both Mirror Chekhov and Mirror Sulu for using poor logic..... That would have been best.
@aquariandawn4750
@aquariandawn4750 Жыл бұрын
I think some private lessons between me, I mean Spock and Uhura, would be the logical choice.
@macmcleod1188
@macmcleod1188 Жыл бұрын
I felt the same. I think Commander Spock has gone soft.
@CaptainAndy
@CaptainAndy Жыл бұрын
Then he would be guilty of argument ad baculum.
@bayareaartist999
@bayareaartist999 Жыл бұрын
I was totally waiting for spock to request their agonizers.
@jeffreycavanaugh1693
@jeffreycavanaugh1693 Жыл бұрын
Mirror Spock: "You have used a logical fallacy. Agonizer, please."
@mr.pavone9719
@mr.pavone9719 Жыл бұрын
Hey, Spock used actual logic!
@hemaccabe4292
@hemaccabe4292 Жыл бұрын
Great animated episode and great lesson in logic. Thank-you.
@deanfaw3880
@deanfaw3880 Жыл бұрын
I like this video bring back memories of tas in 70s they should do a full video version of mirror mirror
@tsartodd
@tsartodd Жыл бұрын
Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell *bad.*
@benw9949
@benw9949 Жыл бұрын
Norman just blew a fuse again. Wow, It's been too long. I should remember the names of the other android series.I might have gotten Norman's name wrong. -- Funny, it was too early for anyone to think of the app restarting or the androids rebooting. -- "Stella! Stella!" "Nothing...thing...thing..." :D
@Rfk1966
@Rfk1966 Жыл бұрын
“I have,of course, over hood” Parallel universe Spock is logical, but vain.
@65if2007
@65if2007 Ай бұрын
No interruption this time from Mirror Sulu followed by an ominous "If I may continue" from Mirror Spock.
@nikolai7861
@nikolai7861 5 ай бұрын
Well, so much for Synecdoche...Damn you Rhetoric!
@travissmith2848
@travissmith2848 Жыл бұрын
We must remember, however, that just because an argument can be classified as a logical fallacy that does not automatically mean that the argument is wrong. For example: the slippery slope argument may not be a fallacy if the progression is properly explained and the steps logically follow and the underlying presumptions are not totally irrational.
@profdc9501
@profdc9501 Жыл бұрын
A statement may be correct even if correctness of the statement does not follow from the argument supporting the statement. A "slippery slope" that is based on a set of successive established inferences or causal conditions can be a correct argument. A slippery slope, however, that is an extrapolation of a statement to a condition where it is not proved to be true is not a correct argument, and does not necessarily support or refute a statement. In a world of imperfect and incomplete information, where arguments can not always be made deductively, sometimes extrapolation or inductive logic is the only option.
@travissmith2848
@travissmith2848 Жыл бұрын
@@profdc9501 However, if it is shown that A leads to B and that the reasoning that let was used to go from A to B if used with B as the starting point has a high likelyhood of leading to C and if C is the starting point for it to lead to D, all that can be said is that we are at B and that is the end. If you attempt to state when arguments that we need to move from B start that if not careful we could end at D your entire argument can be dismissed and ignored without even addressing the extrapolation by simply labeling it "Slippery Slope Fallacy". Similarly any us of hyperbole, edge case that you are not sure has been considered, or simple misunderstanding making an issue seem larger than intended can simply be shouted down with "strawman" and safely ignored. Thus I still maintain that simply declaring something as being on a list of logical fallacies because it is (or you simply choose to interpret it as) following the form renders it utterly invalid can itself be a fallacy.
@travissmith2848
@travissmith2848 Жыл бұрын
@@profdc9501 I have found that, particularly in internet arguments, that any use of an argument wherein an extrapolation to a future condition that is undesirable is frequently labeled as "slippery slope" even when concrete examples are given and dismissed out of hand without addressing any of it and no attempt being made to show how a does not lead to b. As an example: Mr. Jefferies has a class and in that class there is a rule that no student is to chew gum during class without a doctor's note. Bill through a combination of reasonable points and insistent nagging causes Mr. Jefferies to grant an exception. Given the frequency that such bending of rules leads to future bending in other cases Mrs. Okuda could caution him quite rightly about further exceptions but chooses to hold her tongue. Jimmy, then sees that there is a way to wear down the rule and eventually gets an exception for himself. Mikky notes that neither Bill nor Jimmy have any more real need to chew gum than she does and presents her case. Mrs. Okuda, seeing an old pattern repeat itself, decides to speak to Mr. Jefferies cautioning him that if yet another exception is made he risks damaging the validity of the rule and if care is not taken soon the whole class may be excepted and the rule might as well not exist. Mr. Jefferies rebuffs her for using a slippery slope fallacy and rather bluntly informs her that the only question is that of Mikky chewing gum and ignores the argument entirely as it is "invalid". To my mind, Mr. Jefferies has committed what I term the "fallacy fallacy" in that he countered a well reasoned argument with precedent by slapping a label on it and dismissing it wholesale without consideration.
@sandal_thong8631
@sandal_thong8631 Жыл бұрын
This thread seems like it would be better for the slippery slope video. My understanding is there are two classes of Slippery Slope arguments: fallacious and non-fallacious. Non fallacious means that if A is allowed to happen then B _COULD_ happen. Fallacious says B _WOULD_ happen. It could be a matter for scientific models of future activities like climate change. Greenhouse gas pollution leads to raising the Earth's temperature leads to the Greenland ice sheet melting leads to sea level rise and coastal flooding. But mainly this is used in political arguments to attack policy A by saying it would inevitably lead to policy B. The example I remember is that if people have the right to "gay marriage" then a marriage equality ruling by the court would lead to legal polygamy. A funny example was in the show _WKRP in Cincinnati_ where Herb says that if the Big Guy doesn't stop Jennifer and Les from going on a date this will lead to "sex in the halls."
@DG-tt1gl
@DG-tt1gl Жыл бұрын
Awesome! Any chance on another short story like Ptolemy Wept???
@thecaptain6730
@thecaptain6730 Жыл бұрын
Yes!!! That would be awesome!!!! PLEASE!!!!
@itsmeekers
@itsmeekers Жыл бұрын
I fell asleep before it posted. Worth waking up too. 😁
@macmcleod1188
@macmcleod1188 Жыл бұрын
I'm shocked at the lack of time in the pain booth to cement the lessons. Imperial discipline has gotten slack.
@PlasmaCoolantLeak
@PlasmaCoolantLeak Жыл бұрын
Indeed. Now, return to your duties.
@sandal_thong8631
@sandal_thong8631 Жыл бұрын
I finally understood this one and agreed with its examples.
@forkittens
@forkittens Жыл бұрын
i feel like if spock acted like this, everyone would hate him. just goin aground, butting into conversations that dont involve him just to complain about logical fallacies. imagine having someone that that working above you.
@KW-gb9cd
@KW-gb9cd Жыл бұрын
But how many would dare to complain about Mirror Spock?
@potatoheadpokemario1931
@potatoheadpokemario1931 5 ай бұрын
Your agonizor
@S1nwar
@S1nwar Жыл бұрын
man thats 6am for me
@MonsieurPhoton
@MonsieurPhoton Жыл бұрын
Well, what a jewel lol, you put me in stiches! That's a like, however it works out XD
@CHDanhauser
@CHDanhauser Жыл бұрын
I'm glad you liked it!
@ozzymandius666
@ozzymandius666 29 күн бұрын
I think Sulu and Checkov need some time in the agony booth, just to be sure they learned their lesson.
@mortarmopp3919
@mortarmopp3919 Жыл бұрын
...And knowing is half the battle. 😁
@DeconvertedMan
@DeconvertedMan Жыл бұрын
my fave thing!!
@benw9949
@benw9949 Жыл бұрын
I am no expert logician, but one must point out that even if an argument has logical fallacies such as these, that does not make the results always wrong. Both Mirror Chekov and Mirror Sulu may have been correct in their assumptions. But perhaps this is why Mirror Spock didn't throw them both in the agonizer booth. (By the way, how logical is that thing? Not very.) Oh well. Bonus pints for animated Chekov. Maybe he was away at Starfleet Academy getting senior officer training. (No, they just didn't include / pay him in TAS, unfortunately.)
@sandal_thong8631
@sandal_thong8631 Жыл бұрын
This is the one video that I understood without having to watch it a second time, read comments for more information and look it up online. It's kind of like how "to assume is to make an *ass* out of *u* and *me"*
@marscrumbs
@marscrumbs Жыл бұрын
Would "the weakest link" fail the arguments of composition?
@the_____podcastwithianslat7262
@the_____podcastwithianslat7262 Жыл бұрын
Where can I donate????
@pedrosso0
@pedrosso0 11 ай бұрын
While these are logical fallacies and you can't make sure that for instance that one part of the science department is likely to succeed, they are still right in thinking that they are likely to succeed, are they not? Sure they are not necessarily as likely, but it's likely that it's likely, is it not?
@evilkittyofdoom195
@evilkittyofdoom195 Жыл бұрын
I'd have Spocks children ...
@TurtleTrackin
@TurtleTrackin Жыл бұрын
While Spock is correct as to what we can logically infer to be true, sometimes limited information (what we can know vs. What we can't know) sometimes requires us to base a decision using division or composition as our basis. For example- if you had to choose a doctor from a clinic that had a solid reputation versus another doctor from a clinic that had a shoddy reputation, you would likely go along with the doctor from the clinic with the solid reputation, even though you could not be sure that this particular doctor was as good as his clinic's reputation implies. Nor does it follow that the doctor from the clinic with a shoddy reputation was incompetent. Further, a reputation could be deserved, or undeserved, in different instances. In an emergency situation, (you are losing a lot of blood) you do not have time to fully evaluate the qualities of an individual doctor or the validity of the reputation of his clinic to ensure your choice was the most competent. Rather, you would have to make the decision to "guess" based on limited information. Therefore, in emergent situations, it may be necessary to base a decision on something that in one sense could be described as a logical fallacy, and in another sense, could simply be playing the best odds you have with the limited information at hand. Which is why Kirk, not Spock, was Captain. It is only logical.
@sandal_thong8631
@sandal_thong8631 Жыл бұрын
If your need for medical services is urgent and imminent then you don't have time to compare quality, price and customer service for a doctor, surgeon or hospital. If you need a surgery _sometime_ this year but not immediately, then you can look around. Same for seeking a 2nd opinion, GP practice, psychiatrist, etc.
@NDAsDontCoverIllegalActs
@NDAsDontCoverIllegalActs 2 ай бұрын
Venn diagrams help with this
@mdxque8393
@mdxque8393 Жыл бұрын
Mirror Spock seems less of a buzzkill then normal Spock. XD
@videojomo
@videojomo Жыл бұрын
I find myself thinking how cool M'ress would look if she were part of the Mirror Universe, but then I get to thinking about the fascist nature of the Terran Empire and the xenophobic attitudes which would follow along like a fist in a gauntlet, and that always kind of troubles me about stories set in the MU. Because I'm pretty sure if there were any Caitians on that ship, they wouldn't be a dagger-wielding femme fatale with officer status, they'd be slaves or wall decorations or holed up in their own solar system like so many feral cats backed into an alleyway.
@davefram4653
@davefram4653 5 ай бұрын
I will never not fall prey to one of these non-logical arguments.
@braddurian
@braddurian Жыл бұрын
That evil Spock sure is convincing.
@kingbeauregard
@kingbeauregard Жыл бұрын
I don't know that I agree with evil Spock about these specific examples. If the ship's chemistry department does consistently high quality work, it very probably means they have talented staff and they follow solid procedures. That strongly suggests they wouldn't assign the task to a chemist unsuited to the task. And as for the shelter, all right it's possible that it was misassembled, but why start with that assumption? That strikes me as objecting just to object.
@markhorton3994
@markhorton3994 Жыл бұрын
Good points. If the individual members of the chemistry did not consistently do good work the department could not because the work of the department as a whole is the work of the individual members.
@kingbeauregard
@kingbeauregard Жыл бұрын
@@markhorton3994 I feel like the one detail that makes this fallacy less of a fallacy is that the task was assigned by the chemistry department, at which point the chemistry department's ability to assign tasks to the right individuals becomes a factor. If it were a matter of, say, a chemist who found himself stranded on that planet with the duranium shelters, and they were asserting that he would be well-suited to analyzing the material composition of the duranium plates, that might not hold. Just because he's a member of the Enterprise's award-winning chemistry department doesn't mean that he is an expert in this particular corner of chemistry. Maybe he's an organic chemist, and duranium plating isn't his wheelhouse.
@markhorton3994
@markhorton3994 Жыл бұрын
@@kingbeauregard Yes, in your example the fallacy applies.
@sandal_thong8631
@sandal_thong8631 Жыл бұрын
Saying it _will_ be a good shelter, and the chemist _will_ produce good work is the fallacy. Saying it _should_ be a good shelter based on materials, and the chemist _should_ produce good work based on the past record of the team, is non-fallacious, I think.
@user-ug2hk3go6i
@user-ug2hk3go6i 10 ай бұрын
wouldn't the Mirror, Mirror Spock be as illogical as our Spock is logical?
@CHDanhauser
@CHDanhauser 7 ай бұрын
The mirror universe is not the bizarro world. The counterpart of our Spock simply exists in a universe where the Federation was not peaceful, not in a place where logic is not useful.
@matthewwells2520
@matthewwells2520 Жыл бұрын
Logical in any universe. ... except Wacky Land. Logic makes no sense there.