I think it was more used as an AWCS than a in-combat ship. Using its highly developed systems to analyze potential weaknesses in the enemy ships and feeding key tactical information to the combat vessels. However due to its underpowered engines it often found itself caught in the fray and lacking defensive capabilities it never lasted long.

If you have to go "through" the nacelle, then maybe the bay is actually in an opening under the pylon, or in the center of the saucer, like on the Defiant.

We real did not know lot about what Oberth class starship and it combat ables. In the Search for Spock we did not get to the USS Grissom see it return fire. Klingon lucky shot and destroy it out right. We also do not know if other experimental equipment on the USS Grissom might have help blow it up . However with at photon toropdoes launchers being duel use and used launch probes It likely that Oberth class at least one photon torpedoe luancher . This would back more so by TNG Pregasus with the Admiral making the statement USS Pregasus use experimental weapon systems. Which likely means it had photon torpedoes and at least one phaser bank. Now saying only foal send Oberth class starship into battle face Borg Cuble is not account either though. Alone no UFP starship we know stand real chance against Borg be it the Oberth class or Promomus class. In fleet though story little different again the Oberth class has some weapons. At least one phaser bank and strong evidence that has photon torpedoes going do some damage. Also entire fleet attacking going last target to get hit. Which mean do more damage other ship be first to go and possible even survival the fight simple by one weaker hitting ships. Last thing point out is that escape podes hardly joke things go wrong science to need get off the ship.

The first picture blueprint things you showed shows the hangar bay (shuttle in a big 2 deck room) at the back of the secondary Hull

Lore Reloaded master screen shows a shuttle bay

Don't forget stones flying through the room 😜

Great comment :-)

Disrupters dont have a stun setting.

@@RABB1DSQ1RR3L A lucky shot sir!

Klingon Captain: no, that's too powerful Klingon Warrior: I could...throw this plushie of a targ? Klingon Captain: make it a warning shot across their bow

Can I get a Miranda instead? No. Danube? No. Delta Flyer???? Ye-no.

@@Steve12966 How? It was basically a cut down constitution class with basically the same weapons and even more torps if it had the top mounted launcher. It served with distinction all the way to the dominion war.

@@Steve12966 Initially the Miranda was a light cruiser that could punch way above its class, the fact that it remained used up to the dominion war, is a testament of how good of a design it must have been. Its just that by the end, it was the old workhorse brought to a battlefield where they had tanks.

I can defend the Miranda as a boring practical vehicle like the C-130 or Sherman tank but I've got nothing good to say about Oberths. To me it's Class is target practice at the galactic shooting range.

@@Lonovavir See, the worst part about it for me, and what caused me to genuinely believe it to be a terrible design, is the fact that on top of totally lacking in any defensive measures, it _also_ somehow manages to fail as a scientific vessel. The few times we see Oberths in TNG, they've fallen victim to scientific phenomena. So they can't defend themselves, and they also can't survive the oddities they are designed to encounter. Literally irredeemable.

LOL!

What they can',t open the air lock and throw rocks at the enemy ships?

@@seanm4095 I guess they could use the rocks that fall out of the ceiling whenever the ship takes damage.

@@combatking0 yea lol

Is the crew Italian? Hahahaha

Captain Geronimo HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I just cackled like a loon. 🤦🏽‍♂️

With comedy alarms... Capt estebans reaction akin to randy quaid in independence day... Oh Crap.

Considering how easy Federation starships had warp core overloads, the Oberth class wasn't unique in that regard! XD XD XD

Check out allen on generation tech

And then both of them just get blown up anyway because a) Enterprise C Crew were practically suicidal and b) the Borg don't like to take prisoners

always liked to believe that the Federation uses its most advanced ships like Galaxy or sovereigns on its outer borders to Cartography and scan everything on the flyby and encounter the most serious and unknown hazards. The second wave would be a ship like the intrepid which can land and act like an outpost while exploring more in detail but still be fast enough to run and strong enough to face threats not recognized or just missed by the first cartography ship. The third would be short range explorers like the Oberth and newer Nova class which operate mostly within federation and already relatively well explored space where dangers as weapon fire is almost not happening. And older designs were updated and acted mainly as support ships. The Problem with that is that the newer Designs in the case of a battle are most likely far far away and the bulk of the fleet that can be gathered quickly are those scientific designs or the older ships in the support roles. additionally If i were S31 i would use Defiants (but they are to rare but the right crew size) or nova (maybe still too new to get ignored by most) or exactly the Oberth-Class to conduct my super secret experiments and missions. I mean most enemy and even Starfleet officers would just ignore a ship like that doing what it does in the background since its nothing special and no particular threat also often has civilian crew onboard which would explain if it sometimes handles things a bit odd in the eyes of a trained starfleet officer but if they don't cry for help would probably left alone and get ignored by most. So yea perfect ship for secret missions and testing of special equipment like phase cloaking devices no one should know about. And the one at Wolf359 well maybe that one was one of those obeths with the new and classified weapons or shield array currently installed for testing and they thought why not test them on the real enemy currently invading Federation space. But don't managed to get away fast enough as they realized their equipment wasn't up to the task.

casbott. That reminds me of the study that prove that fires in New York City were related to the existence of fire departments, thus the solution to preventing fires was to reduce the number of firehouses.

It didn't help that these systems were purchased from a Ferengi and used the U.S.S. Detonator as a testbed.

In ww1 the Brits started to issue helmets a year or so in. They were about to take the helmets back after reports of higher head injury rate, until someone pointed out that the injuries would normally be deaths.

@Thelondonbadger Yeah, right.

And thus how the designer became an admiral

@@LoreReloaded XD

@@LoreReloaded Thought of making a Rank List for Ships? I mean, you do make Videos about Ships (not enough in recent times though, to be honest), and you do talk about what's strong and what's weak, but you never made an actual rank list with numbers, did you? Like, high up Akira-Class and Lowest of the Low, the good old Oberth and Miranda.

If star fleet is anything like our real world militaries. The door doesn’t even have a lock on it, and for the first few years of service you where just expected to know not to touch it. Though after a few years of of service someone finally put a paper note up.

@@awesomechainsaw Your first sentence already made you wrong. Thnk about that fact.

*Prepare for ramming speed*

klingon oberth

well, as part of a larger fleet action, I suppose you might use an Oberth class for casualty recovery and medical evacuation (the latter so long as you're not too far from a starbase due to the Oberth's limited warp speed)

You know, that reasoning isn't half bad.

Maybe it works as a field hospital ship/ search and rescue...

Great points when you put it like that really makes sense

That is the canon answer as to why there were Oberth ships as well as civilians in those battles. They threw everything they had in there because they were on the brink of defeat without any real means of defence against a borg cube.

+Flo Ri - That makes sense too. An "all hands" emergency isn't going to be a good example of SOP for any organization.

Caleb Chaney true and that's what got Benjamin Sisko to build the defiant but then they only Built the one it took the Dominion War for them to build two more the Valiant in the San Paulo which Captain Sisko renamed the defiant.

@@scifinerd1911 In Voyager you see that they built at least two more. They are seen in the episode "Message in a bottle" attacking 3 Romulan warbirds and the Prometheus with the help of an Akira class vessel.

Agreed. Up until then, it was never stated or implied that Oberths were combat-capable. When the Grissom was attacked, Captain Esteban never mentioned phasers. I didn't know the thing had phasers until First Contact

"...it was there..." and quickly forgotten again (mothballed the Defiant instead of fixing the problems and producing a few hundred of them!)...everyt Starfleet Officer involved in that decision should IMHO request a posting to an Oberth (to do suicide runs at Jem'Hadar fighters! Because they basically sacrificed their fellow officers in order to preserve a stupid mindset! Seriously, Si vis pacem, para Bellum! That has always been true and they built what basically amounted to cruise ships, but unlike old Ocean-Liners that could truly pull auxiliary cruiser duties in war they didn't build them to military standard, they just bolted on weapons to make them look a bit scary!)

@P Mason So like the Kazon in a way? Damn, that comparison :D

If you really take a top down approach to this ship, it would actually make a fine little gunboat. Similar to the Star Wars Skipray Blastboat, this ship could have been massively overpowered and had very heavy shields and armament and that phase cloaking device that would enable it to be one hell of either an Intel ship, or a fast strike ship. Or, the Oberth could have been just a plain comfortable yacht with adequate performance and with whatever the tastes a 23rd Century individual of wealth would have. Huge vista windows for observation, holographic suite for entertainment and movies. A large library, swimming pool, beautiful wood and exotic paneling. Skies the limit with such a capable little ship.

You know how the USS Pegasus had that super-illegal cloaking device? Maybe it wasn't - isn't - the only Oberth-class to have one.

*RED ALERT*

@@Crick1952 Arm...Phasers?

@@seanm4095 Pssh. Too conventional. The Crossfield class will throw mushrooms at you, like a perverted but aggressive version of Mario. ...Then the mushrooms will explode into tardigrades that eat the enemy. Brutal, but the needs of the many, outweigh the needs for conventional space weaponry.

Just imagine that briefing: Admiral Hanson: We can't win this fight... but if we can get one of our Oberth's to take readings and survive this fight... Surviving Captain on another ship: Sir... I'd follow you to hell and back... but you're asking the impossible. Lacutus: They will attempt to get readings on the cube using an Oberth... hail their Oberths on all frequencies, while focusing weapons on the other ship classes. Borg Collective: Should we not focus our weapons to destroy the Oberths? Lacutus: The Collective's hails will be enough.

Uh,no. According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, the Nebula-class USS Endeavour was the only ship that survived the battle. In the pilot episode of DS9 which featured the Battle of Wolf 359, the Oberth-class USS Bonestell has it’s primary hull sliced open by a Borg cutting beam causing the entire ship to explode like a Ford Pinto.

Marmalade passed thursday is what I am told. A fan of the channel shared it with me cause he saw my cat, I decided to do this as a special surprise for the fan and a memorial. sorry to kill the buzz

its how they got the idea..

Wasn't that also the general idea behind the Enterprise-D's saucer separation when they went up against the Borg?

ENiceGeo You would think, but the saucer separation was inspired to save lives. Unlike both an Oberth and MVAM, which were inspired to end them.

I don't see why the Federation would fully get rid of the Prometheus tech. Maybe just put a beacon on it to make it register on sensors. Clearly if it can go through matter that means you couldn't shoot it. Invincible War Canoe solved :D

@@DanielTsosie Erudite meant the 4 Nacelle NX Prometheus :D...

tba113 yes I was 17 and a half great years.

I am sorry can relate to that lost my dog two months ago to cancer. She fight it the last year and in the end i had to put her sleep with 15 years.

Pintos were actually pretty safe to drive. As long as nothing touched the back of it EVER.

@@manictiger then why the recall on them

James Kennedy stuff kept touching the back of it

And when a space leaf touches it the Oberth class blows up.

That was solved by the Bumper Mandate for the 1973 model year! The new bumpers eliminated the problem with the Pinto & Bobcat!

hah, well glad i could give to him in some small way.

Who?

samaravadi3 or simply cough near it.

Howard Gleason exist within several light years. MICHAEL BAY

Did they not allow any Starfleet officers with hay fever or other allergies on board? I think any violent sneezing might cause a critical system failure or warp core breach...

Kevin Norris actually one of the ways they got rid of the common cold!

Howard Gleason I fart in your general direction.

as it should..

A trait it shares with the Defiant, which can be anything from a fighter aircraft to a small battleship depending on the scene... XD

XD love this comment

Bird of prey have multiple classes, they just call them all birds of prey generally in the shows and it's irritating.

... well you atleast get to see it explode 30+ times

Haha

Ah STO a game where solo play, for me, means a science vessel set up for tanking and self heals.

A Carrot back in the Starfleet Academy days nothing gave me more satisfaction than taking on a warbird or Excelsior With an oberth and owning them. That ship did have a single phaser emitter and a torpedo launcher that could launch a single torpedo every 15 or 20 seconds if I recall. The trick was to remain so close to the other vessel that they could not land many direct shots on you, then it was a game of persistence nibbling away at their Shields just slightly faster than they can regenerate! Also the occasional ramming maneuver came in handy.

Reminds me of sitting atop the tower of a Star Destroyer in X-Wing Alliance and chipping away at it.

And really, with the kind of technology they have - a larger number of smaller ships would make more logical sense. We've been shown in the TNG era that computers are so advanced that ship functions can largely go on automatically. So from an operations standpoint if you don't actually need 1000 people to run a ship, why build larger ships when you get more bang for your buck building a higher quantity of smaller ones?

@@gmjosh2766 Smaller is better in a lot of instances particularly where you're at a resource disadvantage. The most effective ships in the Kriegsmarine were U-boats and torpedo-boats.

Yeah Starfleet sure has a ...fetish, for refitting ships. Totally an unusual thing for a navy to do. ... really rare

The Oberth. A flying casket. The USS Ford Pinto. A tough little ship? That’s the Defiant-class. There is no good reason whatsoever to design, construct and deploy a ship like the Oberth which has minimum weapons and shielding, even as a science vessel. Not to mention keeping it in service for decades or more. A science/cargo/transport vessel needs really good shields and weapons AND propulsion just as any regular old Starfleet vessel. Maybe even more. Space, on it’s own, can be really dangerous. A high-radiation environment, where stuff like solar flares, CMEs(coronal mass ejections), novas and supernovas can occur without warning and you have to leave at maximum warp. Why have the Oberths when you have Mirandas, Novas, Magees, Nebulas and Crossfields which can do the same job but much better in all aspects? Even the Defiants could do a better job as science/cargo/transport/patrol vessels.

@@gmjosh2766 That’s not an excuse for designing, constructing and deploying the Oberths. Why do that when you have Mirandas, Novas, Defiants, Magees, Nebulas and Crossfields that can do the same job but far, far better? Oberths are flying caskets disguised as Starfleet vessels. The design should have been rejected and the prototypes should have been handed over to Section 31 to do whatever they saw fit to do with it.

glad you enjoyed..

prepare for battle speed!

They forgot to hook up all the hamster wheels in the cargo hold. Then they would have really got going.

100% canon.

but you forgot raming speed

Link? Is it from Ex Astris Scientia, or Jackhill?

Chris sonofPear riker mentions phaser fights all the way to the shuttle bay in the pegasus episode of tng.

I think they spent most of their time investigating the numerous mundane physical phenomenon that other ships were too valuable to waste their time with.

Pt boat from wwll

I'd take the runabout oder the delta-flyer over this thing!

Ah, do I detect a fellow SFDebris fan?

Pretty much every Federation ship ever, lol...

@@codythomas7593 Voyager looked like a spoon and that thing was fucking invincible! So moral of the story is to make all ships look like spoons?

@@manictiger There is no spoon...

not only that most of those miranda's were probably salvagable as they were usually disabled

By the time of DS9, the Miranda was, what, a 115 year old design? The Soyuz class was a sub-class of the Miranda, but it was "out of service for more than eighty years." by the time of TNG: Cause and Effect. Not bad for a literal Centurion.

With updated tech, the basic configuration of a Miranda class was also a very versatile and timeless design.

*Court Martialled. As in Martial or Military Courts. Also, despite the typical depiction in media where it's an instant dishonorable discharge or a one-way trip to a federal prison (or the morgue), they are not a bad thing. Just like any other court, it gives the defendant a chance to, well, defend themselves from the charges, and the prosecution still needs to prove the defendant guilty of a crime. The movie _Top Gun_ actually shows one that is about fact finding after Goose dies while ejecting from their out-of-control F-14. We don't see much besides the final decision of the court (ruling that the loss of the F-14 and the death of Goose were both accidents), but the process still occurred.

That's swell

I've heard that before, it's an interesting idea.

Lore Reloaded. Explains why they were there when the Borg appeared deep in fed space. Obviously the hand full of Galaxy's and even the Nebulas were mostly nearer the frontier than the core systems. With perhaps 6 Galaxy class ships at the time and probably not yet hundreds of Nebulae covering a truely massive volume of space its no surprise they were not on hand for the battle. I would also imagine the remaining Ambassadors and still substantial Excelsiors shared deep space duty due to the huge amount of space being explored and they were probably the go to vessels to patrol existing borders. Numerous and advanced enough for the job yet not so rare that such a post would be a waste. You wouldnt stick your Galaxy class prude of the fleet on mundane border patrol during peace time, even if they might be better than any two or three lesser ships.

The Nova class pretty much is the replacement. I like the think the Springfield-class was also intended as such, but wasn't very commonly produced.

Chris sonofPear. Lets see if the Nova can live up to the legacy! I still say the Oberth predates the constitutions by several years unless the Grissom used a recycled registry number. Meaning its well over a century old design by DS9 the era. And did you mean Crossfield class? Theres little info on the actual Springfield class. The Xfield imo was a specialty design, probably with only three ships built ( Xfield, Glenn,Discovery) due to some very specific features like the articulated rings and the engineering hull probably being so large to house spore cultivation.

Recycled registry is likely. The real reason it has that registry is that they copied the Franz Joseph Technical Manual and just stuck the class in after the Hermes-class, with a slightly higher number (NCC-638)

Lawrence Haguewood I always assumed the secondary hull was full of sensors and other scientific equipment.

Still had to get people in there to work on the equipment or add new stuff. Then again, most of the time if a ship has a secondary hull, that's where the warp core is located. Maybe they just had a lot of horizontal movement in their turbolifts?

I always assumed there are turbolifts in the warp pylons.

Transporter?

@@krim7 No it had a turbo lift in each pylon that rotated to fit down the relatively thin struts. A poor design IMO. You can see how it works here: www.coldnorth.com/owen/deckplans/m20/oberth-s.htm

I just rewatched the clip. The captain never gave the order to raise shields.

@@jeffreyknickman5559 judging by the lightning, they were under red alert, so shields should have been up.

Not alpha canon alas

well per canon there is nothing about speed weapons ect yet you talked about them so it looks like your using non canon info

Alpha canon source?

Reminds me of the fan-made deckplans on Ex Astris Scientia.

Lore reloaded memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Starfleet_Academy_(game) The game is considered canon and accurately simulates ships with accurate weapons. Just note since this is a 90s game it may not accurately PORTRAY them in simulated battles due to the limits of the game.

Games are categorically not considered alpha Canon.

Except This game HAS Checkov, Sulu, Macoy, and Kirk in it. Kirk especially becomes an important character in the later part of the game. It's alpha.

unobtainium

I unabashedly love "unobtanium." There's no better way to tell your audience that it's not important, and they should all just move along.

Azeroite!

And when it's cut and polished, it's refereed to as Amazonite prime.

WONDER WOMAN WANTS THAT STUFF!

I'll be darned..it's int he secondary hull right there..how the hell did I miss that? It's never even mentioned either in any other resource i could find.

You're right, that is peculiar and I'm not sure why it wouldn't be mentioned, but ever since I found out about the mouse in the Galaxy Class display, I've always found it fun to look over those displays to see if I could find any other funny things.

I chose this one because it looks like an actual MSD made by them (there are an unreasonable amount that are fan made). I'll see what I can do in conforming if this is real or not to.

Tight space back there. The ship can't be longer than 150 metres, hence two decks in the upper hull. But still a lot of narrow areas in the back.

It's a confirmed Canon image. Pinned a comment.

It would still blow up, and there probably wouldn't be any phasers on any of the other parts of the ship. Essentially the other 2 parts would be a distraction and would just slam into the enemy ship in hope of it doing damage.

indeed

Might have been simpler if some types of ships had separate prefix letters all along. Might have been less confusing for the numbering.

I suppose a ship in a line that never got comissioned would keep the NX (Navel eXperimental) prefix, I know the Defiant kept its NX prefix (mostly because of CGI budget reasons) while ships given NCC would be Naval Construction Contract prefix.

Could have added other letters as well, was what I mean't. To distinguish main starships from scouts and transports, for instance.

ShiningArmor359 --I think he meant to say "seal-cough-ski" , I think was spelled "Tsylkofsky", but I REALLY can't remember and now that I look at it, it doesn't look right. I know it was the Next Gen episode where everyone got that drunk flu that originated in TOS.

SS Tsiolkovsky ... Memory Alpha ftw... Mostly just found it funny he just knew he wasn't going to pronounce it right, dunno if I could... К. Э. Циолковский.... is the actual plaque you see... my eyes go cross

Tsiolkovski was the guy who wrote the "rocket equation" (which allows one to calculate the potential delta-v of a spacecraft) among other things One of the founding fathers of rocket science, a very appropriate guy to name a ship after Could have been a nicer ship, but I guess the experimental nature of it is a sort of tribute in itself

1) Google surtass (link is busted) 2) think "holy shit that's actually what this ship should have been for"

Joel Bell i'm so sorry for your loss. I have to say, that is a great name for a Chihuahua. There are many similarities between the two.

indeed

there is going to be a vote in the community tab ;)

More like the bucket or hoopty class.

I actually have an idea for an STO fan-fic that features a Miranda as a "hero" ship. In the story, the Miranda Class had been retired from active service in the late 2380s, but a plan was proposed to bring the ships back after the war with the Klingons had depleted operational starship numbers to a dangerous level. The admiralty judged that the design was too badly outdated to effectively serve in its current form, so a single ship was brought out of mothballs to serve as a testbed for a class-wide refit. This ship was the U.S.S. Pontiac - NCC-42409, a veteran of several major conflicts, and the last newly constructed Miranda Class to leave the yard - being first commissioned in 2351. The refit is extensive. All of the phaser banks are replaced with phaser strip arrays, and fore and aft phaser cannons are added to the rollbar, with two additional fore cannons placed on the tops of each nacelle. The shield generators are made more robust, taking up twice as much interior space and leaving room for only a single holodeck for recreation. The ship's top speed is increased to warp 9.4, and the warp core is replaced with one that can generate nearly twice the power as the original at full load. The new Miranda effectively combines the firepower of a Defiant with the versatility of a light cruiser, and is touted to be able to stand up to a Vor'cha Class battlecruiser on its own. If that sounds too good to be true, that's because it is. Initial tests of the new design reveal the ship's EPS grid - which remains mostly unchanged - cannot handle the load of all three enhanced systems (weapons, shields, warp drive) being used at the same time, and the 24th century computer core cannot interface with the 25th century upgrades without continuous maintenance. Various malfunctions all over the ship are a daily occurrence, similar to the lemon Enterprise-A seen in Star Trek V. Starfleet is ready to write the project off as a failure, but the Pyrrhic victory at the Battle of Starbase 24 leaves the fleet in such a desperate state that Admiral Quinn decides to recommission the ship anyway and authorizes an extended shakedown cruise under the watch of recent Starfleet Academy graduates. Cue the tutorial mission of STO. This is the way I see the story of STO canonically begin. The U.S.S. Pontiac is a cantankerous beast of burden, always riding the razor's edge between completely dominating its opponents and suffering a complete systems failure. It is the last hurrah for the Miranda Class, the planned class-wide refit being cancelled because of all of the technical problems, but it is the first command of a Starfleet captain who just might become a legend.

i like that idea of starting in a ship barely holding together by dutch tape but stil do its jobb XD like picard's first command XD

@@Lennis01 I had a similar idea once, only it featured the Sydney class. Basically, during the Dominion War SF instituted a program to upgrade and "militarize" a bunch of older civilian ship designs, specifically the Aerie and Sydney class transports, to be used as patrol/escort ships (to free up more capable ships) or as resistance vessels just in case the Dominion won. The program focused on robustness and ease of operation. They were designed to be operated by small, minimally trained crews for extended periods in situations where repairs and resupply might not be possible. This resulted in the Skua (Aerie class refit) and Stonefish (Sydney class refit) classes. The Skua was faster and better armed, but not as durable. The Stonefish was slow (top speed warp 8.8 for 12 hours) and minimally armed but much tougher, almost as tough as a Defiant class. My stories are set aboard the USS Pompanito (Stonefish class) ten years after the Dominion War(2385) She's in rough shape and her crew is a bunch of misfits, but Starfleet needs ships with warm bodies because the Alpha quadrant is completely FUBAR.

#nailedit

Okay. Simply accelerate to 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% lightspeed with the only cargo being antimatter.

Wasn’t everyone’s job at Wolf 359 to die?

critter30002001 Which the Oberth did with the most enthusiasm.

OK I have to use that word in a sentence some time TODAY.

There's nothing you've said here I inherently disagree with. I like to think of it as a test bed for alot of what starfleet was trying out.

Maybe the sensor arrays are so sensitive that they need to be far away from the warp core and any other ship systems?

It got pwned pretty quickly so wouldn't have gotten much ;P

When playing BOTF you should always take one Oberth into the battlefleet as it gets you more informations on the enemy fleets stats and orders. Maybe the thought isn't so devious that they tried to get data/info from the cube with the Oberths.

it was a good clip of the oberth

like to know the flim you used please :)

paulus121212 Ben-Hur

paulus121212 the original, not the remake

I'll take a look at the book though most books aren't considered canon. I would agree at why it was used at wolf 359, and even sector 001.

ty. it is sad that star trek creates these amazing ships, but tells almost nothing about them.

The magazines releasing with the Eaglemoss model series has some decent info, although I don't always agree with the reasoning used. It's also done in a very 'out of universe' perspective, relying too much on first appearances as indicators of how new stuff is, or backstory.