Did Africa Have The First Iron Age?
Рет қаралды 298,541
Күн бұрынDid iron working reach sub saharan Africa from the north or did it in fact have the earliest iron age? Oooooh lets see!
thumbnail by Ettore Mazza
ettore.mazza?ig...
Thanks to Pete Bensen for helping with recording.
/ stefanmilo
Sources:
1. Kaufman, Brett, et al. “Ferrous Metallurgy from the Bir Massouda Metallurgical Precinct at Phoenician and Punic Carthage and the Beginning of the North African Iron Age.” Journal of Archaeological Science, vol. 71, 2016, pp. 33-50., doi:10.1016/j.jas.2016.04.002.
2. Sanmartí, Joan, et al. “Filling Gaps in the Protohistory of the Eastern Maghreb: The Althiburos Archaeological Project (El Kef, Tunisia).” Journal of African Archaeology, vol. 10, no. 1, 2012, pp. 21-44., www.jstor.org/stable/43135565. Accessed 2 Nov. 2020.
3. Humphris, J., Scheibner, T. A New Radiocarbon Chronology for Ancient Iron Production in the Meroe Region of Sudan. Afr Archaeol Rev 34, 377-413 (2017). doi.org/10.1007/s10437-017-92...
4. Alpern, S. (2005). Did They or Didn't They Invent It? Iron in Sub-Saharan Africa. History in Africa, 32, 41-94. doi:10.1353/hia.2005.0003
5. Almathen, Faisal, et al. “Ancient and Modern DNA Reveal Dynamics of Domestication and Cross-Continental Dispersal of the Dromedary.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, vol. 113, no. 24, 2016, pp. 6707-6712. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/26470279. Accessed 4 Nov. 2020.
6. africanrockart.britishmuseum....
7. Anderson H. Chariots in Saharan rock art: An aesthetic and cognitive review. Journal of Social Archaeology. 2016;16(3):286-306. doi:10.1177/1469605316661388
8. Connah, Graham. “The West African Savanna.” African Civilizations: an Archaeological Perspective, by Graham Connah, Cambridge University Press, 2016, pp. 149-184.
9. “Sudanic Genesis: Nubia.” African Civilizations: an Archaeological Perspective, by Graham Connah, Cambridge University Press, 2016, pp. 69-110.
10. Holl, A. (2020, June 30). The Origins of African Metallurgies. Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Anthropology. Retrieved 6 Nov. 2020, from oxfordre.com/anthropology/vie....
11. Craddock, Paul. “New Paradigms for Old Iron: Thoughts on É. Zangato & A.F.C. Holl's New Paradigms for Old Iron: Thoughts on É. Zangato & A.F.C. Holl's ‘On the Iron Front.’” Journal of African Archaeology, vol. 8, no. 1, 2010, pp. 29-36., doi:10.3213/1612-1651-10157.
12. Deme, Alioune, and Susan K. Mcintosh. “Excavations at Walaldé: New Light on the Settlement of the Middle Senegal Valley by Iron-Using Peoples.” Journal of African Archaeology, vol. 4, no. 2, 2006, pp. 317-347., doi:10.3213/1612-1651-10078.
13. Franke, Gabriele. “A Chronology of the Central Nigerian Nok Culture - 1500 BC to the Beginning of the Common Era.” Journal of African Archaeology, vol. 14, no. 3, 2016, pp. 257-289. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/44295242. Accessed 9 Nov. 2020.
14. Junius, Henrik. “Nok Early Iron Production in Central Nigeria - New Finds and Features.” Journal of African Archaeology, vol. 14, no. 3, 2016, pp. 291-311. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/44295243. Accessed 9 Nov. 2020.
15. Chirikure, Shadreck. “On Evidence, Ideas and Fantasy: The Origins of Iron in Sub-Saharan Africa Thoughts on É. Zangato & A.F.C. Holl's ‘On the Iron Front.’” Journal of African Archaeology, vol. 8, no. 1, 2010, pp. 25-28. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/43135498. Accessed 9 Nov. 2020.
16. Erb-Satullo, Nathaniel L. “The Innovation and Adoption of Iron in the Ancient Near East.” Journal of Archaeological Research, vol. 27, no. 4, 2019, pp. 557-607., doi:10.1007/s10814-019-09129-6.
17. Rehder, J. E. The Mastery and Uses of Fire in Antiquity. McGill-Queen's University Press, 2000.
18. Rehren, Thilo, et al. “5,000 Years Old Egyptian Iron Beads Made from Hammered Meteoritic Iron.” Journal of Archaeological Science, vol. 40, no. 12, 2013, pp. 4785-4792., doi:10.1016/j.jas.2013.06.002.
19. University Of Arizona. "Making Iron The Old-Fashioned Way Is A Tricky Business." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 14 October 2005. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051011073801.htm.
20. Erb-Satullo, Nathaniel L. “The Innovation and Adoption of Iron in the Ancient Near East.” Journal of Archaeological Research, vol. 27, no. 4, 2019, pp. 557-607., doi:10.1007/s10814-019-09129-6.
21. Radivojević, M., Rehren, T., Kuzmanović-Cvetković, J., Jovanović, M., & Northover, J. (2013). Tainted ores and the rise of tin bronzes in Eurasia, c. 6500 years ago. Antiquity, 87(338), 1030-1045. doi:10.1017/S0003598X0004984X
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www.stefanmilo.com
Historysmilo
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@StefanMilo 3 жыл бұрын
Iron't you glad I made this video? Check out From Nothing's: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ad2AbMd2uJjIm4E.html & Ollie Bye's: Not finished yet but I'll update this soon.
@jimmyshrimbe9361 3 жыл бұрын
Love it!!
@IFY0USEEKAY 3 жыл бұрын
Yes!!! Some tin wrong though. Your puns are bad.. Iron mine worse than yours? Steel you try....
@DelijeSerbia 3 жыл бұрын
As a Serbian I really wish we invest more in Vinca. There are so many discoveries that could be made there.
@aidanmagill6769 3 жыл бұрын
Boooooo
@ptonpc 3 жыл бұрын
The Irn Bru and Daddie's sauce helped
@joshuastarkloff9602 3 жыл бұрын
Africa of the antiquity is so interesting. Outside of Egypt, Carthage, and Nubia not much is really known for non history nerds
@TaariikhdaAfrika 3 жыл бұрын
The city states in the Horn are pretty well known, no?
@OkurkaBinLadin 3 жыл бұрын
@@TaariikhdaAfrika No.
@TaariikhdaAfrika 3 жыл бұрын
@@OkurkaBinLadin I thought most people with even the slightest bit of interest in trade in antiquity would know of them. Not to even mention D'mt and the succeeding Aksumite Kingdom that was very much up and running in antiquity, I'd say they're pretty well known.
@ovoj 3 жыл бұрын
@@TaariikhdaAfrika to you but most westerners bought the racist drivel of colonialism and savages and still believe it till now so the concept of advanced African civilisations other than Egypt is straight up heresy to them
@jonajo9757 3 жыл бұрын
Kinda irritates me when people think Egypt and Nubia as the only civilizations worth mentioning. When will they mention that fucking Mansa Musa, the richest man in history spent so much gold in Egypt that he fucking destroyed their economy for an entire decade!?
@phoule76 3 жыл бұрын
When I get kicked out of the house and have to sleep in the car, I also pretend I just wanted to see the sunrise.
@rani.andretti 3 жыл бұрын
:(
@SenorTucano 3 жыл бұрын
Time to get a new girlfriend mate
@prettylights8873 3 жыл бұрын
@@amenrakwamehotepporchprima9307 oi bloke how many broads named "Peter" do ya know????
@TahtahmesDiary 3 жыл бұрын
@@prettylights8873 Maybe they were talking about assuming what kind of love interests Peter has? 🤔
@prettylights8873 3 жыл бұрын
@@TahtahmesDiary nah, was definitely referring to the "mate" bit.
@SC-zq6cu 3 жыл бұрын
The problem with iron artifacts is that it becomes very hard very quickly to get well preserved iron samples from older time periods. For example: Bronze artifacts from ~2000 BCE are sometimes better preserved than iron artifacts from ~1200 CE.
@lukasgaizauskas1127 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, but the slag from the production process would still be preserved
@SC-zq6cu 3 жыл бұрын
@@lukasgaizauskas1127 Yes but slag won't tell you who used the iron or where it went.
@SC-zq6cu 3 жыл бұрын
@Marty Magpie Not true if there is a lot of it.
@SC-zq6cu 3 жыл бұрын
@@amenrakwamehotepporchprima9307 The kind of dryness needed to stop iron from rusting over thousands of years is pretty rare on earth and also not coincidentally occur in areas where very few people live if at all. iron rusts very easily.
@SC-zq6cu 3 жыл бұрын
@@amenrakwamehotepporchprima9307 North Africa and the sahara region where people live aren't that dry. Look at the iron stuff used in those places. A lot of rusting still happens. Less than that of humid areas of course, but it isn't negligible and will eat up the iron over a thousand years. 6 iron artifacts that were found. Many could've been made, most lost. And besides those 6(or 2) were made in early days. Its not like nobody made anything from iron in later more recent times. As no. of iron artifacts increased those 6(2) would've become not so valuable. Of those 33% that are desert about a third is the cold desert of antarctica. The total desert surface area is about 18,911,884 sq. mi. The total area of antarctic desert is 5,405,000 sq. mi. A little less than 1/3 rd of the total desert surface.
@bobcharlie2337 3 жыл бұрын
No matter which side of the argument you are on, it's clear that there needs to be research and excavations in Africa. It's really cool to learn more about the iron age on the continent of Africa.
@warrenny 7 ай бұрын
Like a lot of "arguments" these days, almost no one is on the "other" side. It's just the same boring cliches thrown about. Scientists of all branches of learning have been mining every corner of society and the planet looking for information and answers. No one serious is leaving out any particular group, race, culture, etc. in the pursuit of knowledge.
@Heavyisthecrown 2 ай бұрын
@@warrennyexactly they aren’t being left out. Also if a bunch of people went there and started digging and Hod forbid they were white?!? 😂 they’d be racist. Also everyone’s all about the western world leaving everyone alone. So they can do it themselves. Why doesn’t Africa discover its own history if it wants to? I doubt they need or want any help. Any help will be highly scrutinized and I doubt anyone wants to open that can of worms in todays world
@FromNothing 3 жыл бұрын
Amazing content as usual man. Love it alot and perfect compliment to my mapping part of this collaboration.
@Zoltar69 3 жыл бұрын
Your videos sent me here! Thanks for all of your videos.
@FromNothing 3 жыл бұрын
@@amenrakwamehotepporchprima9307 There's never a shortage of content to produce from African history.
@jonasMasterCraft Жыл бұрын
I your videos! :D
@A3Kr0n 3 жыл бұрын
It's not the age of the wood that matters but how you wiggle your stick.
@gloriascientiae7435 3 жыл бұрын
this knowledge can cause quite a situation in the carbon dating department
@curtisthomas2670 2 жыл бұрын
"the older the wood the etter the heat"
@HistoryTime 3 жыл бұрын
A wonderful surprise to wake up to
@spencerellis83 3 жыл бұрын
I went to sleep to history time 🙌🏼
@StefanMilo 3 жыл бұрын
You say that to all the history channels
@evanlaughlin6345 3 жыл бұрын
@@StefanMilo m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j5ebea6nzbKlpIk.html
@GumaroRVillamil 3 жыл бұрын
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
@dagothher 3 жыл бұрын
fancy seeing u here
@dogons2k12 2 жыл бұрын
> - Pringle, Heather. "Seeking Africa's First Iron Men" (PDF). Science. p. 2. - Holl, Augustin F. C. (June 2020). "The Origins of African Metallurgies". Oxford Research Encyclopedias. 22 (4): 415-438. *Below are lectures (which can be found on youtube) by Professor Chris Ehret (University of California)* Ancient Africa in world history: Innovation, Invention, and Impact Lecture by Chris Ehret (University of California) Africanity of Ancient Egypt Lecture by Chris Ehret (University of California)
@erievhs 21 күн бұрын
Thank you!
@coffeeabernethy2823 3 жыл бұрын
In science, if you've had an idea, most likely someone else has as well. So it's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that just like calculus, iron working was invented more than once, in more than one place.
@askforcorn 3 жыл бұрын
Convergent innovation!
@cadian101st 3 жыл бұрын
It almost certainly was. Writing was developed independently multiple times, as was agriculture, among many different innovations.
@coffeeabernethy2823 3 жыл бұрын
Convergent...
@askforcorn 3 жыл бұрын
@@coffeeabernethy2823 absolutely
@kim1570 3 жыл бұрын
Correct, just like the morphic field. There's a field of knowledge that organisms of the same species can tap into and sort of download information from, independently at different geographical locations.
@edwardgreen4684 3 жыл бұрын
I just couldn't grasp this radio carbon dating time gap issue until I saw that metal horses head with a fairly light tiarra and it all just magically fell into place
@MrrMatts 3 жыл бұрын
What a man smashing out all these interesting videos! I've been struggling with sleep recently, and I say this in the nicest possible sense, your videos are fantastic to have on if I can't get to sleep. They are wonderfully calming and if I still can't sleep, at least I'm learning about some fascinating topics. Thank you for your hard work and big love to you Stefan!
@istvansipos9940 3 жыл бұрын
if you speak at least 1 foreign language, try counting. 1 in your first language, then 2 in a foreign one and so on. I had to use this method twice (yeah, I sleep well in general), and I don't remember reaching 40 (Hungarian, English, German)
@PeachysMom 2 жыл бұрын
@@istvansipos9940 I do it with the alphabet backwards and forwards in all the languages I know
@jackdelvo2702 3 жыл бұрын
Pottery was the first manmade material. To make pottery you need high heat, a kiln. Mess around with high heat for long enough you notice its effects on various other raw materials besides clay. So where ever pottery is produced given enough time and curiosity metallurgy follows.
@mpetersen6 3 жыл бұрын
Then basically metallurgy could have begun with the Jomon. Personally I think one of the first copper ages could well have been in the Lake Superior region due to the generous amounts of nearly pure float copper.
@charlesaanonson3954 3 жыл бұрын
The same thing could be said about gold. Smelting gold takes some pretty high temperatures as well. Iron spear and axe points were very valuable and useful. Anybody that knew how to make them could get rich very fast. The message would spread widely and quickly.
@mpetersen6 3 жыл бұрын
@@Eidolon1andOnly If they have glaze on the pottery they've got kilns. One thing I think societies need to make the jump to metals is a readily accessible and workable source of metal. And that really only works with things like float copper and iron nickel meteors without smelting.
@raylast3873 3 күн бұрын
That makes a lot of sense
@justtalking4279 9 ай бұрын
There is a good read published by George Celis 1991 on the last bloomeries in Africa. The technology presented there is so strikingly different from what we know today from the early iron workings in Mesopotamia, that it truly looks like being a native invention especially in western Africa.
@Non_auro_sed_ferro_recuperanda 7 күн бұрын
It definitely is a native invention. Currently reading _Ancient Africa Metallurgy: The Socio-Cultural Context_ to really get a good grasp on the history, dating, methods, dates, etc. of how Africa’s Iron Age started, but the book also discusses much about Copper which is an abundant resource Kansanshi, Akjoujt, Nouakchott, Khatt Lemaiteg, and the Tigidit cliff, Eghazer basin & Azawagh valley surrounded by the Aïr mountains... Copper is extremely abundant in Africa, and much of it has been found at ancient grave sites like Anyokan, Asaquru, Wasadan, Tuluk, Ingombe Ilede, etc. The book is now a personal favorite of mine...
@douglasphillips5870 2 жыл бұрын
Poetry is a reasonable precursor to iron. Potters could have accidentally smelted crude iron in kilns then developed the technology to work it.
@josephdavis1704 2 жыл бұрын
Poetry, my favorite precursor to iron.
@lostpony4885 2 жыл бұрын
Yet irony is wasted sans pottery
@suzbone Жыл бұрын
By the end of your first sentence, I was super excited to read whatever poetry you were gonna come up with, Douglas lololol 😅😂
@bartolomeothesatyr 10 ай бұрын
Poetry stirs the heart, inflamed passions lead to conflict, conflict drives ironworking for weapons of war. Makes total sense, even if it was an autocorrect typo.
@tinkerstrade3553 6 ай бұрын
I confess, I've left my own autocorrect misplaced words in a post. Sometimes the change would give it a flavor that tickled my fancy. "There's many a truth in misspelled words." - S. Freud, (Or he should have said that!)
@kiritugeorge4684 2 жыл бұрын
When it comes to Africa, the outside world always comes at it with the highest levels of doubt, skepticism and underestimation, even when Africa produces good evidence on par with other regions of the world.
@ohlangeni 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. Invention of Writing (the writing system in use in the world today) is placed doubt in favour of borrowing from Sumer far away when the Sumerian cuneiform is different from the sound-system invented in Sudan (Ta Seti), the Hieroglyaphics used in Kush and Egypt. The African writing system (often called Egyptian by Europeans) commenced in the same millenia 3,320BC as the Sumerian cuneiform.
@Grimloxz 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely sir. In almost every area of significance this attitude is always present…
@JonathanMartin884 2 жыл бұрын
I actually use West African iron technology to make this exact point in my world history class.
@TristanCleveland 2 жыл бұрын
Yep.
@rosalynbeatty8310 2 жыл бұрын
@@ohlangeni KZfaq-- Ancient African Writing Scripts or Systems. West Africans had this invention.
@ivanclark2275 3 жыл бұрын
You may not like it, but this is what peak archeology looks like
@marcv2648 3 жыл бұрын
So you're saying there's nowhere to go, but down from here. Is that good or bad?
@romariocoffie4702 3 жыл бұрын
@@marcv2648 How is he saying theres no way to go but down?
@marcv2648 3 жыл бұрын
@@romariocoffie4702 Because he said peak. There is nowhere higher than peak. It's only downhill after that.
@prettylights8873 3 жыл бұрын
@@marcv2648 more history channel episodes
@fbsfgr 3 жыл бұрын
Peak UNESCO sponsored political "archeology" that was looking for a set answer before they awarded their study. What a fucking joke.
@jeh5176 3 жыл бұрын
I don't know what if they had the first iron age but they certainly have the oldest mine which is the Ngwenya mine on Bomvu Ridge. It goes back to 40,000 years.
@jagmannenarbrand8373 2 жыл бұрын
idk, the oldest use of iron is there. But it was just used for art not tools or weapons. I believe they traded iron mask to other places. edit: oldest use of iron that we know of as of late. we could find older iron stuff in another place
@wizard680 3 жыл бұрын
13:05 Its 2020, the pandemic has hit so hard that our favorite youtube is forced to use a plastic spoon as a mic.
@debralucas2224 3 жыл бұрын
"Captains Log."
@Cheeseatingjunglista 3 жыл бұрын
What? He's got a "new" mic spoon? What happened to the old tiny white plastic spoon? What sort of cruel swine breaks the Sacred SpoonoMic baton/mace/fasci, an object crucial to our as yet un-named cult of Milo Info Cargo. This has to stop
@benr.4238 3 жыл бұрын
Na, that's just standard Stefan Milo. 2020 Milo now eats bacon sandwiches in the rain at a park.
@YaBoiDREX 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video! African archeology is criminally ignored.
@visaodissidente5560 Жыл бұрын
Bullshit. Many highly sophisticated European cultures are also neglected, such as the Danubian Civilization.
@YaBoiDREX Жыл бұрын
@@visaodissidente5560 Okay? Didn’t say they weren’t.
@MrJovon321 Жыл бұрын
@@YaBoiDREX The weird paranoid reflex some folks have when it comes to anything concerning Africa or 'duh blacks'
@grahamcole5203 Жыл бұрын
I think Egypt and Sudan are in Africa
@curiousman3655 Жыл бұрын
@@visaodissidente5560 bro calm down 😭😭
@kraekennedy 3 жыл бұрын
As usual Stefan, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I have been watching your videos for quite some time now and wanted to take the time to thank you for all your time and effort involved in sharing such interesting information with the world. I am fairly new to KZfaq and you were one of the first channels that I subscribed to. I can't thank you enough, for reawakening my insatiable thirst for all scientific knowledge! 👍
@StefanMilo 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks that's very kind. I try my best
@kraekennedy 3 жыл бұрын
@@StefanMilo 👌
@akhilsasikumar7961 6 ай бұрын
Hi, I too love learning about hominins of the past. I am interested in neuroscience and artificial intelligence. If you wish, I would like to connect with you
@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 3 жыл бұрын
“I know this is an archeology channel but the memes should be fresh” That’s a man I can get behind.
@EmperorTigerstar 3 жыл бұрын
1:43 That’s fine. Emperors beat kings.
@StefanMilo 3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't ever insult you by calling you a king.
@zachfreeman2502 3 жыл бұрын
How are you everywhere?
@zachfreeman2502 3 жыл бұрын
@Franky Padilla Emperor Tigerstar, he seems to comment in like half the videos I watch.
@trollerjakthetrollinggod-e7761 3 жыл бұрын
@@zachfreeman2502 He's the Emperor. Can't escape his rule.
@merrymerryjerry6736 3 жыл бұрын
@Franky Padilla Nah, rock flies right through paper!
@Pauuanthakali 3 жыл бұрын
Saw a video of traditional African iron smelters making a mud furnace, collecting red soil (iron ore) and gathering village strong men to pump the bellows for days to get iron bloom for their farming tools.. thought perhaps early metal producing cultures just used ore of what was readily available.. copper producers had copper ore.. iron producers had iron ore..
@Pauuanthakali 3 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iNtzob100b3boIU.html
@PanglossDr 2 жыл бұрын
That was really interesting. I have long had a feeling that many technologies developed independently at different times and places. A perfect example is the antikythera mechanism. This required a very high level of knowledge of maths, astronomy and mechanics plus the skills in metalwork to produce it. All of that was lost and had to be re-invented centuries later.
@fridaymanly 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, may Oggun (the deity of Iron) of Western Africa protect you 💚
@jobwesleycoxjr5103 3 жыл бұрын
It sounds like a random word in Yoruba rather than some other West African language
@Om-bo2oe 3 жыл бұрын
@@jobwesleycoxjr5103 it does, it is.
@makeytgreatagain6256 3 жыл бұрын
@@jobwesleycoxjr5103 it is a Yoruba god (Nigeria) the idiot that made the comment knows nothing of africa except it’s a “west African god@
@dylanmosley6237 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video. Quality information about sub-Saharan Africa’s pre-colonial and ancient cultural heritages is undervalued and often convulted and obscure. I know you’re scientist and just want to focus on the facts, but for me connecting with African history has a personal meaning. I am gay and mixed race (black&white) and live in the rural midwest (Trump country). Racial tensions have always been part of well, the modern world, and part of the racist narrative are that all the important technological innovations come from Europeans. Our national educational systems almost never encourage students (regardless of race) to investigate black African contributions to history and I think it leads a lot of people to be ashamed of their identities. I knew I grew up feeling ashamed of half my biology because it was considered ugly, primitive and worthless. Access to this kind of technical information in videos like this is so important for people who have busy schedules or who don’t always have the educational background to delve into these topics. So, again, thank you for your important work.
@tpxchallenger Жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting that. Quite a memoire. I cant imagine growing up gay and mixed race in the Trumpian midwest. I've just started plunging deeper into African history by way of Old Kingdom Egypt. I got algorithm to a really interesting Afrocentric channel called Mr Imhotep. I don't believe that the Celts were actually Black African or that everything comes from Africa but was stolen, but I think there is a very strong case for a much more African neolithic, pre-dynastc, and Old Kingdom Egypt than is credited. Anyway, best wishes on your jump into history!!
@1_Fish.2_Fish.Red_Fish. 7 ай бұрын
Whoa.
@TommoCarroll 3 жыл бұрын
The use of Irn Bru constantly throughout this video made me more happy than it should. This was so interesting, I love when topics challenge preconceived ideas/stuff we just assume is fact!
@rooknado 3 ай бұрын
Irn Bru?
@BingShing 3 жыл бұрын
Since I am too poor to send money I’m definitely going to share and like this video it’s absolutely awesome! Thank you for everything you do!
@judeangione3732 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for explaining the basics so clearly. Also, your video makes me realize how much I really know about African history. Thanks for the links.
@0li_vi_er 8 ай бұрын
Good video. But I noticed one very important mistake: 2:43 "Scottish soft drinks are made from iron". They're actually made from the two main things you find in Scotland. Shortbread and heroin.
@jacksonneptune4083 3 жыл бұрын
It's remarkable that you managed to bring this type of dense and esoteric debate to an popular platform like KZfaq. Keep it up!
@asabattista Жыл бұрын
There is a very interesting book called “the lightning bird“. Among many other things it elaborates on the use of iron ochre ( the blood of the earth)as body paint in south Africa, with evidence of it’s mining up to (if I’m remembering g correctly) 20,000 years ago. It seems that this would have put them in a perfect position to transition to an iron age
@jacksonneptune4083 3 жыл бұрын
6:14, the old wood problem is something unique to North American contexts and does not apply to iron furnace technology. For iron making, only specific species of wood with certain properties appropriate to making charcoal are carefully selected to use in furnaces.
@TheHistocrat 3 жыл бұрын
This had to come out right when I don't have time to watch it didn't it
@Jobe-13 3 жыл бұрын
HONESTLY
@levitatingoctahedron922 3 жыл бұрын
that's fine, it's absurd revisionism.
@miyojewoltsnasonth2159 3 жыл бұрын
@@levitatingoctahedron922 What specifically is revisionist?
@averongodoffire8098 3 жыл бұрын
@@levitatingoctahedron922 What’s revisionist about it?
@levitatingoctahedron922 3 жыл бұрын
@@averongodoffire8098 I already shared the relevant historiography the first time it was asked but my comment was censored. If you want unbiased historical information this is not the channel.
@zevalica5318 3 жыл бұрын
If you have time, you can find that in Serbia they found iron needle, discovered on the site in 2002, is considered to be one of the oldest surviving metallic objects on the planet. It was made from the stainless iron, without any hollows. It is 64.5 cm (25.4 in) long and dated to the 14th century BC (c.1300 BC). It considered a technological wonder even by modern standards as iron of such purity hardly can be produced even today. It is 98,86% pure iron and apparently can't rust.
@gequitz 3 жыл бұрын
Another banger! Hope we can get something on West African Hominins one day
@computerager 3 жыл бұрын
Some Europeans assumed Africans couldn't have invented iron-smelting. Would it be 'ironic' if we eventually discover that Africa invented it first? Perhaps this isn't a 'ferric' good joke.
@akata7644 3 жыл бұрын
My God, That should get you banned from this channel
@sedwillful 2 жыл бұрын
@@akata7644 hater
@danechristmas6570 3 жыл бұрын
Saw thew original documentary about two years ago, and they actually did the smelting in a clay kiln...( Of course they did a lot of ancestral worship and before the actual smelting ) But when I saw that hot, molten iron flowing out of that clay kiln, I was flabbergasted!
@rodpaget9796 3 жыл бұрын
When I was in africa ivory coast...the villages made their own iron in a clay tower about 8 ft tall. Seemed one could make iron by mistake with the method of a clay oven. Just put a iron oxide lump in or the iron rich soil lump or two, charcoal, and hot fire and I bet Iron was around a lot longer than thought,
@Mr.Universe 3 жыл бұрын
@Shane Ashby Not at all the smelting techniques in many of African societies that produced Iron tools/weapons were very advanced were not surpassed until European industrial revolution.
@Mr.Universe 3 жыл бұрын
@Shane Ashby yes that is the case my historically inept friend..there are even some African cultures that produced steel thousands of years before steel was a thing but that's a subject still being studied...imagine being so bias in 2020 my god....
@almishti 3 жыл бұрын
Iron is in fact very difficult to process, no one 'makes it by mistake' in a clay oven, to think someone could betrays a complete lack of knowledge of metallurgy. There's a reason the Bronze Age happened centuries earlier than the Iron Age in the Mediterranean; and on Cyprus, the main source of Mediterranean copper for centuries, iron ores occur naturally mixed right in with the copper ores, yet for centuries the Cypriots just discarded the iron slag and never bothered developing the process for refining it, in part b/c it's so much more complicated than that for copper.
@rodpaget9796 3 жыл бұрын
@@almishti Look up Bog Iron and get back to me....I saw what the africans did first hand in an area of dirt that was almost iron ore.....I am not talking about damascus steel either....
@rodpaget9796 3 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pMendsRemcq7l40.html
@richarddelotto2375 3 жыл бұрын
... I messed around with "ornamental metals" for a while, made "knife-like objects" as well. One thing I noticed about the serious, skilled practitioners is that they were ALWAYS experimenting with materials and techniques. I have no problem conceptually with "smith-shamans/wizards/mages" discovering and spreading their art through apprenticeships and the like. (Drawing the "sword from the stone" may be an elaborate metaphor for smithcraft...)
@superlitin1 3 жыл бұрын
Having an exam in archaeometallurgy in two days, perfect timing for this video :-)
@lolazal1 3 жыл бұрын
I hope you didn't rely on this, and actually read some BOOKS?!
@superlitin1 3 жыл бұрын
@@lolazal1 Lol of course, just complimentary to what I was studying :P
@oz1352 3 жыл бұрын
Great stuff man, you never fail to make good content!
@IvorMektin1701 3 жыл бұрын
There's a great video on West African iron smelting using the old methods. The whole village participates.
@rodpaget9796 3 жыл бұрын
When I was in africa ivory coast...the villages made their own iron in a clay tower about 8 ft tall. Seemed one could make iron by mistake with the method of a clay oven. Just put a iron oxide lump in or the iron rich soil and hot fire and I bet Iron was around a lot longer than thought,
@IvorMektin1701 3 жыл бұрын
@@rodpaget9796 I'm sure it was accidentally discovered several times, but I'm baffled who figured out to keep reheating and hammering the bloom after they got their pool of copper. That's a metric butt ton of hard work. My dad was a metallurgical engineer and he had a copy of Herbert Hoover's translation of De Re Metallica by Agricola. It was published in 1556. It might have some ideas...
@MrBottlecapBill 3 жыл бұрын
@@IvorMektin1701 Everything ancient peoples did was hard work. Hard work was never a barrier for them.
@IvorMektin1701 3 жыл бұрын
@@MrBottlecapBill Hard work without an apparent benefit.
@tisFrancesfault 3 жыл бұрын
@@IvorMektin1701 I think we sometimes over think the developments at times. it would not surprise me that the smith was bored and just hammered the bloom while hot because lets face it, you would too, and noticed a interesting change. Maybe one guy, maybe generations of dicking about with bloom led to the discovery of iron.
@gregrefon 3 жыл бұрын
You're the man, brate! Thank you for the content. Brilliant as always.
@conlinbryant5037 3 жыл бұрын
Very convenient! I was just looking into this! I know my ancestors were already working copper for a while before developing iron working as soon as shipwrecks from Asia started landing on the coast of British Columbia in the 1800's. A very cool Tlingit short sword from Alaska is made from meteoric iron.
@Zane-It Жыл бұрын
Are you haida?
@prophetofbara1214 3 жыл бұрын
Very Great Video Milo! Looking forward to watching the rest of you're catalog. 💖
@stusacks2220 3 жыл бұрын
I recently and accidentally fell on your videos Stefan and find you very interesting and fascinating. I look forward to watching all past work. Excellent stuff. Thank you!
@admiralsquatbar127 3 жыл бұрын
A new Stefan Milo video? You had better steel yourself, The dad jokes are going to come thick and fast. Iron see my myself out.
@craigds3745 3 жыл бұрын
Oh, the irony!
@rondias6625 3 жыл бұрын
Once again outstanding thoroughly done research.. unbiased and thought provoking keeping an open mind..keep on keeping on sir..thank you for sharing intersting info..have a better one
@jasontwynn7356 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video as always. I've seen all your videos a few times. I've had a head injury and can't remember what I've watched,so no one in my house will watch anything with me anymore. So I watch stuff over and over like it's the first time I've seen it. Keep up the good work
@eldjibheryr3546 3 жыл бұрын
i'd like to take this opportunity to admire your choice of single malt whisky.
@alsaunders7805 3 жыл бұрын
Agree! 🤓🥃🍺
@adrianfortmoviereviewsbook9821 3 жыл бұрын
I need your stale memes. I have a stale sense of humor.
@lucasgillis 3 жыл бұрын
You're making great videos, with good work on the sources. Your humility always serves your point, it's great to follow your channel and i am glad to have discovered it [recently (nonetheless, i've already watched tons of it)]
@emmasimon4005 7 ай бұрын
Ha, I was writing a comment about how ceramic production is hypothesized to have lead to the discovery of metal working, then got to the section where you talk about it. Great video!
@hillockfarm8404 3 жыл бұрын
What about the iron being used as practice material for students since it was first considered worthless? Would make good use of mistakes when fire got to hot.
@robertbrownm 3 жыл бұрын
I thought this was a spoon mic channel. Now I know about ancient Iron working. Miss you buddy!
@thomaswatson4843 3 жыл бұрын
I'm so happy when you post man. I love your vids. I also love that every history channel I follow comment on your stuff it's so wholesome
@3nthamornin 6 ай бұрын
you are one of my absolute favorite channels. youve taught me so much about my favorite topic. thank you
@ttld678 2 жыл бұрын
Truly a golden nugget on KZfaq right here. Keep up the good work lad and never lose sight on what makes you whole and only work on what’s makes you happy.
@Cobbido 3 ай бұрын
Got proof?
@rigs9801 2 жыл бұрын
One thing that might mitigate the "old wood" problem for the central african finds is examining charcoal burning methods in that region in the present. Charcoal burning is likely one of humanities most ancient industries, and the methods do not change much with the passage of time. Growing up in West Africa, I often saw charcoal burners as a kid, and was shocked to find that the methods used in places in Eastern Europe are incredibly similar. It would stand to reason that methods in heavily forested areas in particular, such as central africa, would hardly change at all over centuries or even millenia. If charcoal burners prefer certain trees, it could give some clues to exactly how old wood used for charcoal could be.
@ikengaspirit3063 6 ай бұрын
Yeah, the fact that people citing old wood problem don't do more research to confirm shows they are more concerned about proving the consensus than getting to facts.
@1_Fish.2_Fish.Red_Fish. 7 ай бұрын
Found ur channel recently and have on a tear catching up. Well done sir.
@qwertyuiopgarth 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. As someone else said, a wonderful surprise to wake up to. If I had known there was a new Stefan Milo video I would have gotten up earlier!
@Campbellteaching 3 жыл бұрын
I love this kind of stuff
@petergriffin3723 3 жыл бұрын
West Africa to me was the cradle of Sub-Saharan African civilizations like Greco-Rome was to Europe, bringing agriculture, metallurgy, science, pottery, seafaring, etc throughout the rest of the continent. The largest, most powerful, and earliest empires existed in West Africa, of course not neglecting the many achievements and civilizations found in other regions of Africa.
@HansenFT 2 жыл бұрын
Was it though? Proto indo europeans probably came from the steppes in todays Ukraine..
@HansenFT 2 жыл бұрын
I was talking about greco-romans being cradle of european civilazation btw. Celts had seafearing, metals etc. So had the nordic bronze age too, and I believe several other european cultures that was not greco-romans.
@lif3andthings763 2 жыл бұрын
@@HansenFT That was the minoans.
@supahotjoe6493 Жыл бұрын
Wrong. Cheikh Anta Diop proved that Kemet-Kush (Egypt & Sudan) plays that role for africa. On the linguistic part, he made a comparison between ancient kemet language and Wolof, and the words are almost the same. Other others did the same with ancient egyptian language. Ask chatgbt it will tell you.
@MrTapierwithmustache 3 жыл бұрын
Without even looking at the video I instantly recognized the Two cimbals on a cliff vid. That stuffs gold!
@krishna-e-bera 3 жыл бұрын
Spoon-mic appears at 12:15 Thanks for a solid and entertaining intro to the topic!
@edgeeffect 2 жыл бұрын
I've been an AMATEUR metallurgist for years... and watching this video, the penny FINALLY dropped as to why cast iron is so brittle and wrought iron is a totally different thing to that. Yes I must be a bit of a dullard... but still... thanks for the simple explanation that even I can grasp. ;)
@kevinwise912 3 жыл бұрын
Good morning anthropology peeps, gotta love waking up to my boy Milo
@cameronanderson8737 3 жыл бұрын
Usually put your vids on when I hop in bed, plan backfired and I just knocked out due to your soothing voice, god dam you Stefan. But seriously good work on the video, been watching your channel for a while and I’m grateful you tried this out. You’re a talent.
@petewhiting912 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic channel. I've spent an entire day watching your amazing content. Something to keep me company during lockdown.
@craiggersify 3 жыл бұрын
I think your focus on archaeology entitles you to excavate old memes
@DCMarvelMultiverse 3 жыл бұрын
I hope the look of the geography has been taken into account here. A slightly different geography, weather patterns, and any additional research into cultural evolution and genetics of surrounding areas could prove to be essential in figuring this out. Where people lived, how they lived at differents times, what the waterways and land looked like back when in relation to trade, etc.
@davidhoggan5376 3 жыл бұрын
Love your lectures friend. Very grateful that you're keen on sharing knowledge.
@Dss-bm3rz 3 жыл бұрын
Love this channel. Poorly edited, nerdy and just how I like it!!
@calrose 3 жыл бұрын
Sub-saharan Africans were making carbon steel when the only other furnace in the world that could reach that heat was a place in Sri Lanka that was powered by geothermal energy aka a volcanic furnace
@Relax-ge2uf 2 жыл бұрын
Ok
@aidanmagill6769 3 жыл бұрын
Wow this was interesting but I did spot one majorly (and one minor) egregious fault: that bacon sandwich seemed to be soggy with rain😮, how dare you sir! The incorrect brand of Brown Sauce can be overlooked because at least it's still the appropriate condiment.
@darylbuttery1513 2 жыл бұрын
Luv ya work. Welcome back, I’ve missed your investigations
@EVtripper 10 ай бұрын
I love the plastic spoon mic. I'm going to use that hack. I love your videos. Thank you for the great info and content.
@norml.hugh-mann 3 жыл бұрын
I thought YT required that all videos either contained a "holier than thou" attitude by the narrator or repeating narrative of mega-conspiracies involving religion, wealth, ruling the world by aliens.
@MrBottlecapBill 3 жыл бұрын
Maybe the evidence of early African iron working is being suppressed by the systemicly racist governments of the world? It's pretty clear archaeologists are just a group of white males trying to hold onto their view of history at the expense of other races. How's that? :D
@cysilversoul 3 жыл бұрын
Bottlecapbill It’s important to remember that historians =/= politician.
@hulahula6182 2 жыл бұрын
Africa peaked at iron age lmao
@norml.hugh-mann Жыл бұрын
My point( which I admit is vague) us how intriguing and pleasantly addicting Stephen Milo's content is without the " junk food for the brain" that more popular but inaccurate hosts that like to omit key facts to push nonsense seem to think people want and algorithm rewards for some reason...but my gosh...the truth is always more interesting to me (and I am guessing many of yall feel the same)
@proverbalizer 3 жыл бұрын
Did you even mention Lejja near Nsukka in Southern Nigerian with Iron working sites carbon dated to 2000 BC?
@bgw33 11 ай бұрын
Always pleased to have an unlatched Stefan Milo video appear in my feed. Thanks for well researched presentations
@bgw33 11 ай бұрын
Unwatched not unlatched
@pendox99 3 жыл бұрын
What a wonderful Video.....Thanks Stephan!
@Giagantus 3 жыл бұрын
The Haya people in modern Tanzania invented some high quality steel, the likes we did not see until the 19th century. They invented the method themselves given that no other culture had that skill. So obviously te creativty exists there.
@bdelectr7411 2 жыл бұрын
This is a massive exaggeration.
@cavaugnsharkey2699 2 жыл бұрын
@@bdelectr7411 Saying something does not make it true. Explain...
@eliscanfield3913 3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised at all if iron had multiple starting points. Damn near everything else did, after all. It's got more than a whiff of the lone genius trope to say otherwise. Have archeology types done as much digging around in West Africa as they have in Egypt and the Mesopatamia area?
@petergriffin3723 3 жыл бұрын
@De Alvarado I highly doubt they introduced iron in Africa.
@petergriffin3723 3 жыл бұрын
@Mr. A. Knight The chariot was primarily used in North Africa or the Sahel Region, not in Sub-Saharan Africa. There is no evidence to support the introduction of ironsmithing or any practice by Eurasians, specifically Carthaginians, he even said it in the video. There have been iron smelting sites throughout Africa dating back as far as 2000 BC, which indicate this method was local or spread by groups such as the Bantu. There was little interaction in terms of travel between Sub-Saharan Africa and the rest of the world until 600 AD, which began the Trans-Saharan Trade. This issue is also why Great Zimbabwe (despite not being the only stone city in Central Africa) is thought to have been built by Arabs without any evidence backing it up.
@skellagyook 3 жыл бұрын
@@petergriffin3723 Agree. Except Great Zimbabwe is not thought to have been built by Arabs anymore - it's an old outdated theory - (some thought that in the colonial era, but the evidence has for a while shown the culture and city to have been indigenous).
@petergriffin3723 3 жыл бұрын
@@skellagyook Agree, but many Eurocentrists or bigoted people use this outdated theory to further their racial agenda. It's truly sad indeed.
@petergriffin3723 3 жыл бұрын
@Mr. A. Knight I don't understand what you're trying to say? Yes, the Roman Empire had contact with West Africa around 100 BC as you said, but that was a thousand years after West Africa began practicing iron-smelting and there is no record of them having introducing metallurgy in that region. Also even if the Carthaginians had contact with West Africa, which they did, there is no evidence that supports the claim that Carthaginians brought the knowledge of metallurgy to West Africa or other regions. The Carthaginians began around 800 BC, and began smelting iron around 500 BC, meanwhile the Nok Culture was practicing iron-smelting since 500 BC or earlier, with older sites such as Obui in Central Africa dating back to 2000 BC. Not saying that you're completely wrong, but there's just not enough evidence to support outside influence, it can only be logical the indigenous people have innovated iron due to the lack of other metals in their respected regions, or could have been introduced by other Sub-Saharan African groups that independently practiced iron-smelting.
@phemstros 3 жыл бұрын
This channel is absolutely classic and this video is on point. Wish I had discovered Stephen Milo because he is right about this!
@therob4371 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Stefan. Every video you make adds to my world.
@andrejmucic5003 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for saying "I don't know." Rare to hear.
@S2uMANCHU 3 жыл бұрын
'Scottish soft drinks' - had to laugh out loud!- Then you actually drank some!
@igawori7331 2 жыл бұрын
Dude! Love the way you present your material. Laugh so much at your turn of phrase. As a Brit living in the States, it is refreshing. Bravo!
@AWildBard 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you matched your drink with your jacket. Well done.
@raymondmordi7937 2 жыл бұрын
It seems in sub Saharan Africa, there was a "jump" from the stone age to the iron (not bronze) working age in the area between Nigeria and Central Africa Republic ca. 2000 BCE. In Nigeria are also early of such "radio carbon dates" in such places like Lejja and Opi.
@thelivetoad 3 жыл бұрын
i love that there is such a debate. hopefully it will refocus attention on an overlooked but fascinating swathe of cultures and their histories
@thelivetoad 3 жыл бұрын
@@paulrevere365 Ummm...no, that's exactly the word that is least appropriate
@thelivetoad 3 жыл бұрын
@@paulrevere365 I see: your def is boring = primitive. Very primitive perspective.
@akata7644 3 жыл бұрын
@@paulrevere365 Developing carbon steel before anyone else is primitive?, construction the largest adobe earthen structure that trumps Arabia is primitive?, monopolizing all trans-saharan trade for 200 years is primitive? Making two voyages to the Americas is primitive? We are analyzing history, not being "woke". Take your shitty politics out of here
@thelivetoad 3 жыл бұрын
@@paulrevere365 Well my point was not about them but about you. I could ask you to prove your point but clearly you are incapable of reading. Well enjoy your bigotry. Enjoyed the mud wresting but I have more interesting things to do -- ie, almost anything else which doesn't involve you.
@beninwarrior4579 3 жыл бұрын
@@paulrevere365 If they used iron, then how were they stuck in the stone age?
@brycetsawyer 2 жыл бұрын
I love the plastic spoon mic! Great informative vid! 😘😘
@M.M.83-U 3 жыл бұрын
Fun and informativee as allways, good video.
@polygonalmasonary 2 жыл бұрын
Preceding add: 'This 19 year old boy genius has discovered a way to give cheap air conditioning to the whole world'. How dumb do these marking people think we are? Anyone watching this video knows about the conservation of energy. In physics as in life, you don't get anything for free and there is no such thing as 'perpetual motion', everything has an end.
@afrinaut3094 2 жыл бұрын
I still find the racialized geo-political categorizing of Egypt as the “East” as inaccurate. Worse, is the near consistent removal of Nubian Kingdoms of Kush & Axum from the conversations of East-North Africa. (& the usage of the word “sub Saharan”)
@FrshJurassicPrnceYA 2 жыл бұрын
The term “Subsaharan” is one I’m surprised hasn’t gone out of style yet. We don’t refer to land south of the Gobi desert as the “Sub-gobi region” for example. This goes back to the colonial examinations of African history. It’s meant to divide North Africa from the rest of Africa in a failed attempt to commandeer the splendid history of Egypt, Carthage, etc.. Classic divide and conquer strategy. It’s our job as history nuts to challenge these very outdated notions and usher in a new era of historical research. One that sees the African continent as a primer location for humanities many civilizations.
@DulceN 2 жыл бұрын
I still find the term ‘sub-Saharan’ (used to describe those countries that are not part of North Africa) more adequate than the previous ‘Black Africa’, common during the 19th century and the Western world. But there’s no way to content everyone.
@FrshJurassicPrnceYA 2 жыл бұрын
@@DulceN It's not a very useful at all. Why separate North Africa from the rest of Africa like it's some sort of island? Why not exclude the desert regions of Southern Africa from other parts of the continent? Why single out North Africa? As a person from Sahara/Sahel Africa, there has always been a connection between our Northern relatives of the coast as well as our Southern relatives of the tropics. But non-Africans seem to pigeonholed us often to segregate the history our ancestors had built. It bothers me a lot.
@AndreLuis-gw5ox 3 жыл бұрын
Great video! This is the first one I watch, and its not only a very interesting topic, but you present it in a very nice and scientifical way. Just a note, am I the only one who thought the audio was too low and sometimes hard to understand what was being said?
@StefanMilo 3 жыл бұрын
I did fuck up the audio on this one, my apologies
@AndreLuis-gw5ox 3 жыл бұрын
@@StefanMilo no problem! Loving your channel!
@stevenvandevort781 2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy your style, thanks man.
@glachil7166 3 жыл бұрын
When we gonna upgrade to netherite?
@jaspertenberge1730 3 жыл бұрын
IT DOES MOT EXIST IN REAL LIFE, NEVER!!!!
@glachil7166 3 жыл бұрын
@@jaspertenberge1730 If Lapis Lazuli is real than anything can be real bro. Lapis literally enchants things and yet it exists irl how come?
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Stefan Milo
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