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Star Trek Retro Review: "Author, Author" | Labor Episodes

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Steve Shives

Steve Shives

Күн бұрын

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#startrek #startrekvoyager #startrekvoy #review #labor #laborrights #workers #workersrights

Пікірлер: 213
@ZoeMalDoran
@ZoeMalDoran Жыл бұрын
It's been a while since I watched this episode, but the first line from it that jumps into my head when I think of the episode is Tom saying to the Doctor "I don't care if the whole Alpha Quadrant thinks I'm like Lieutenant Marseilles. I care if you see me that way"
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Same
@lloroshastar6347
@lloroshastar6347 Жыл бұрын
Jake Sisko wrote novels rather than holo-novels. I think the holo novel was just a better visual device for this episode
@seandobbins2231
@seandobbins2231 8 ай бұрын
To be fair, it makes sense for the Doctor, a hologram, to express himself in a holographic format, as it makes it more personal to him.
@ThatWeirdo04
@ThatWeirdo04 5 ай бұрын
I feel like holonovels are to the 24th century what graphic novels are to us
@darkseid1975
@darkseid1975 Жыл бұрын
So going from "Measure of Man" to "Author, Author", you might say its a long road getting from there to here?
@FreihEitner
@FreihEitner Жыл бұрын
Oh geez. :)
@snakebitcat
@snakebitcat Жыл бұрын
You had faith in the bit.
@steveng.clinard1766
@steveng.clinard1766 Жыл бұрын
I would say no such thing.
@KariIzumi1
@KariIzumi1 Жыл бұрын
Bruh 🙃😭
@Marissa-Anne
@Marissa-Anne 11 ай бұрын
I'm telling you, this song and the one from Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy, always gets stuck in my head everytime I read the words.
@IanZainea1990
@IanZainea1990 Жыл бұрын
11:58 for the author author episode to acknowledge that the doctor has had past experiences in the show, that would require them to acknowledge that the episode is a part of a series.
@dlsisson1970
@dlsisson1970 Жыл бұрын
Ouch.
@fy8798
@fy8798 4 ай бұрын
Nailed the exact issue with voyager right there.
@sunyavadin
@sunyavadin Жыл бұрын
It's ironic that there are publishers now wanting to grant authorship rights to so-called "AI" precisely for the purpose of screwing over writers.
@andyb1653
@andyb1653 Жыл бұрын
It's weird, I certainly don't want 2023 AI taking the job of any writer or artist, but I'd be totally fine with "AI"s like Data or The Doctor becoming one. If AI that advanced is ever developed, the legal wrangling over this sort of thing is going to be insane. And it's not going to be Riker and Picard arguing in front of an unbiased Starfleet Admiral.
@xileets
@xileets 11 ай бұрын
Indeed. This episode seems to fit better with a "new definitions of person" or "rights" than "labor".
@doomedwit1010
@doomedwit1010 6 ай бұрын
It raises the if I give a camera to a monkey issue (not copyrightable). I am confident the courts will screw it up and Congress won't fix it. So no worries.
@Kleion_RFB
@Kleion_RFB Жыл бұрын
I think what really muddies the waters is that the Doctor's novel isn't about a fictitious hologram in fictitious circumstances experiencing oppression. It's Voyager and Voyager's crew with a very thin coat of paint. He's literally using their image in a way that would probably be considered slanderous (or would a holo-novel be libelous?). This isn't just "you've hurt my feelings" this is "you've engaged in character assassination that probably will need to end in a legal battle to restore my good name." He's outright implying Chakotay is a cold-blooded murderer - a guy who's already probably looking at some significant legal battles over his involvement with the Maquis when they get back to the Alpha Quadrant. This kind of right to own your own likeness is ALSO part of what's being fought for by SAG, and it's surprising that this point was completely ignored. The decision to simply use the actors to play their "stand-in" characters was probably because they thought it'd be fun for the actors and viewers to see these "evil" versions of the characters (and also budget-saving) but it really undercuts the point, because the crew has more of a grievance here than "it hurt my feelings." Like, imagine someone Deepfaked your image onto someone going off on some racist screed and uploaded it to KZfaq as "Star Wars KZfaqr Stephan Shabbs is a racist, caught on tape!" You'd probably want it taken down too, even if it were created by someone who had a legitimate grievance about you.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Yes, exactly. I was also surprised he didn't pick up on that
@steveng.clinard1766
@steveng.clinard1766 Жыл бұрын
To be fair, Shabbs is the worst
@Kleion_RFB
@Kleion_RFB Жыл бұрын
@@steveng.clinard1766 He's terrible, and, I hear, a racist.
@nmstranger
@nmstranger 11 ай бұрын
Yea...implying him implying they wanted the hologram changed because they didn't think he was equal is very problematic. You don't have the right to do defamation regardless of of who he is and he glossed over that. The example is a good one and I wanna expand on it a little. If someone uploaded a deepfake video of himself going on some racist screed and uploaded it to KZfaq and when he rightfully demands he take it down he goes but I am black see you racist because you want me to take it down. That would be idiotic. I agree with him on a lot of stuff but this is a bad take imo.
@doomedwit1010
@doomedwit1010 6 ай бұрын
Yeah. Using someone's likeness for a fixtional story without permission is also under U.S. law illegal. Unless they're dead I guess? Is this really any different from a Taylor Swift deepfake on 4chan? I mean I forgive the doctor as a hologram for not realizing it at first. And agree Janeway handles it backwards and the episode assassinates her character too! They should jave recognized his feelings but he should have also rewritten it with actual fictional characters with different likenesses. THAT SAID he's an AI. Everything he does is copyright infringement is the growing legal trend. Computers cannot be inspired like humans. Only copied. So the whole book is probably a copyright violation of younask teh NYTimes. And then the whole thing breaks down because sci fi vs reality is being overthought.
@Darbobski
@Darbobski Жыл бұрын
I feel like making Steve review VOY episodes is some kind of televised torture.
@neptuneplaneptune3367
@neptuneplaneptune3367 6 ай бұрын
Unless its one of the rare realy good episode...it is
@AndrewD8Red
@AndrewD8Red Жыл бұрын
Was this episode one of the times where Janeway thought the Doctor was a sapient being or one of the times she thought he was just a lifeless machine? God, I wish the writing on Voyager was consistent. It could have been really, really good if they'd just made it really, really good. (Man, that was a dumb sentence, but I'm not changing it.)
@PeoplecallmeLucifer
@PeoplecallmeLucifer Жыл бұрын
I still love voyager! True some episodes were disasterpieces but when they landed a hit IT WAS CRITICAL! Year of hell, the void, IDK the names but the one where doctors copy gets awaken in the future, the space station where species 8472 trains spies! THOSE WERE GOOD! The telepatic pitcher plant episode, the one where a dude kidnaps jainway and Seven to be assimilated as revenge, TUVIX ... But then they went and made treshold!
@Chiscringle
@Chiscringle Жыл бұрын
@@PeoplecallmeLucifer Even Year of Hell was a good concept that was kept from being great by executive meddling, which I've heard was a constant in the show. There seemed to be a lot of stuff done by the producers which messed up high quality scripts. It's why I tend to remember VOY for the stories it was trying to tell instead on the ones it told.
@AndrewD8Red
@AndrewD8Red Жыл бұрын
​​@@PeoplecallmeLucifer Agreed. I really enjoy more of Voyager than I do of TNG. It was consistently fun, didn't dip as low as TNG at its worst, but EXTREMELY rarely hit any of the heights TNG hit fairly often. Threshold didn't bother me, but I truly *LOATHE* Endgame.
@PeoplecallmeLucifer
@PeoplecallmeLucifer Жыл бұрын
to be fair yeah the ending was rushed ... but knowing Jainways INSANEWAY personality ..... it makes sense she'd fuck with time and space to me @@AndrewD8Red
@eme.261
@eme.261 Жыл бұрын
I tried with VOYAGER during its initial run, but the inconsistencies, flip-flopping and constant reverting back to baseline grew increasingly disappointing and all out boring. Nothing mattered long enough to make VOYAGER matter to me. I gave up on watching the series weekly about 2 episodes after Seven joined the crew and only returned to catch the second part of the series' conclusion. This was also a VOYAGER not-so-special-- somewhat exciting on action, but a huge dump of disappointment when they failed to show the aftermath of Voyager's arrival back to Earth. Womp-womp 😒
@erf3176
@erf3176 Жыл бұрын
I always thought this episode could have used a moment where an easy way out to get control of the Doctor's novel was for Star Fleet to argue that they own the EMH program. The doctor is the property of Star Fllet, therefore so is anything he has created, and the publisher must abide by the decision of the admirals to pull the holonovel. Ultimately, you'd expect the doctor (with the support of his crew) to reject this strategy and argue for the rights of sentient holograms.
@kaitlyn__L
@kaitlyn__L Жыл бұрын
They briefly discuss that Starfleet could leverage its authority to get it pulled. But not only do they reject that strategy for putting the Doctor's personhood on the back burner, they also state it could raise suspicions among (basically) Federation conspiracy theorists.
@MarcSGA
@MarcSGA Жыл бұрын
Another great example of Janeway’s motto of “You can’t kill [oppress] my crew! That’s *my* job!”
@barbaros99
@barbaros99 Жыл бұрын
Is it weird that I heard that in SF Debris's "Janeway" voice?
@Willpower-74205
@Willpower-74205 Жыл бұрын
@@barbaros99 Me too! 🖖😄👍
@nmstranger
@nmstranger 11 ай бұрын
is saying you can't defame your fellow crewmembers "oppressing" him? Not even getting into the problematic nature of using someone's likeness without permission.
@johnpotts8308
@johnpotts8308 Жыл бұрын
it's interesting that nobody makes a comparison with the rules that apply on DS9 - it is (apparently) illegal to use somebody's image without their permission. In "Meridian" (DS9 3.08) Quark attempts to get what is clearly a Holo-porn version of Kira and Quark is informed that what he's doing is illegal. Now maybe that was a Bajoran rule Quark was breaking and not a Federation one, but you'd think somebody might mention that it's, at best, a bit skeezy to use somebody's likeness without asking them first (I'm sure Leah Brahms and Deanna Troi would agree, if their reactions in "Galaxy's Child" and "Hollow Pursuits" are anything to go by).
@BCBaron
@BCBaron Жыл бұрын
I think you make an interesting point, especially as CGI has become much more sophisticated since this episode first aired. We're pretty close to the point where people can generate fairly convincing "deepfake" content that recreates a person's appearance. Not entirely sure whether lawmakers have done enough to keep pace with the technology.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Strong point! He shouldn't be using their likeness without their permission (or worse, despite their objections) anyway. Ironically, that's something SAG AFRA is fighting for and Steve completely missed it in his rant against Voyager.
@patrickdodds7162
@patrickdodds7162 Жыл бұрын
The characters in this episode never site the events of "The Measure of a Man" as legal precedent, HOWEVER they make an offhand reference to the Klingon author K'ratak who wrote the book that Worf gifts Data in "The Measure of a Man". At that point I realized the people behind Voyager weren't ignorant of continuity, but were just fucking with the audience.
@mrgreatbigmoose
@mrgreatbigmoose Жыл бұрын
That is an awesome catch! Now I have to go back and watch both episodes!
@MrJerks93
@MrJerks93 Жыл бұрын
Never reference a better piece of art in your own works. 😂
@ljhcmh614
@ljhcmh614 Жыл бұрын
I have to disagree that the crew should have greeted the Doctor’s negative portrayals of them by asking about his experiences. First of all, that’s not realistic - when attacked, it’s natural for people to defend themselves first, not to question what they might have done to contribute to the atmosphere that led to their slander. More importantly though, no one has the right to publicly misrepresent another person’s behavior and justify it by saying, “We’ll, that’s just how I feel.” My opponents’ minor grievances don’t give them the right to publicly lie about and slander me. My right to protect my reputation trumps their right to complain about fictional grievances. What this episode demonstrates perfectly, I think, is the way that real grievances are often ignored when those raising concerns exaggerate their oppression or demonize opponents. In those cases (as in Voyager), the lies change the debate: It becomes about the accuracy of the text rather than the point the writer was trying to make.
@SteveShives
@SteveShives Жыл бұрын
I don't think the crew should have greeted the holo-novel by asking about his experiences. Like I say in the video, their initial reactions are understandable. My problem is, the episode never acknowledges that their reactions are self-centered, and that however offensive to the crew, there is clearly some degree of truth in the Doctor's narrative.
@acerumble4991
@acerumble4991 Жыл бұрын
I believe the master quote from all of Star Trek about these sort of topics remains Chekov's and Azetbur's exchange about "unalienable, human rights". Would like to say to these studio executives, "If you could only hear yourselves..."
@ComradePhoenix
@ComradePhoenix Жыл бұрын
God, this episode feels oddly prescient now in a way that didn't feel possible when I first saw this episode 15 years ago.
@firefly4f4
@firefly4f4 Жыл бұрын
Just to add to your comparison with Tuvix: That is one example of The Doctor disobeying an order. He's the only member of the crew who does not abide by the decision.
@steveng.clinard1766
@steveng.clinard1766 Жыл бұрын
Murdering Tuvix was bad. Murdering Tuvix to bring back Neelix was the real crime.
@glamourweaver
@glamourweaver 5 ай бұрын
I’m not sure that specific one counts as it’s framed essentially as “my medical ethics programming supersedes my programming to follow your direct orders, so I can’t take any action in this process” but he doesn’t do anything to stop it.
@ShikiKiryu
@ShikiKiryu Жыл бұрын
Some novels have already become and taken on video games! I have far too many Visual Novels in my game library, most of them extremely, extremely gay.
@superslammer
@superslammer Жыл бұрын
Which ones?? I want some gay visual novels
@lillywho
@lillywho Жыл бұрын
What's the furry percentage though?
@ShikiKiryu
@ShikiKiryu Жыл бұрын
@@lillywho Off the top of my head (not looked for a while) I think out of the good 50 or so I have only 2 or 3! (Un)surprisignly there isnt very many good ones. Best one like that though is probably Angels with Scaly Wings that comes to mind right now, been a few years since I played any and that one sticks out in my mind a lot.
@LightOfZeon
@LightOfZeon Жыл бұрын
Fun fact: Interstellar Zoom is what the kids call the ruffie the doctor in Paris' revision uses.
@StevenJBen
@StevenJBen Жыл бұрын
I think originally this episode was about writers basing characters off of friends and family without caring about their feelings, before they realized that was a terrible idea for a Star Trek episode and wrote in the trial at the last minute.
@BCBaron
@BCBaron Жыл бұрын
Steve: Previously on TNG, we saw how Geordi La Forge ran a holodeck program that incorporated a version of Leah Brahms, which of course, makes him the worst person ever. Ms. Brahms was justifiably upset when she found out about it. Also Steve: Today on ST Voyager, we'll discuss how the EMH wrote a holo-novel featuring several characters strongly resembling members of the ship's crew, and that he neglected to bother with actually receiving permission from any of them to make use of their overall likenesses beforehand. Turns out said crewmembers were unhappy with the way they were depicted. What a bunch of whiny a-holes, right?
@nmstranger
@nmstranger 11 ай бұрын
I know what a whiny snowflake. Getting upset over a little thing called defamation.
@ShikiKiryu
@ShikiKiryu Жыл бұрын
Also, speaking as a trans person, Im on the doctors side here, really. A lot of the time I can very much relate when it comes to trying to talk about stories of my experiences of opression, lack of autonomy and practically having to beg for basic care, or at the moment, our right to exist and be recognised. Just wait and look at the negative comments this will probably get from some people, proving my point.
@ljhcmh614
@ljhcmh614 Жыл бұрын
Yes, but you have the power of truth on your side. You don’t need to exaggerate the terrible ways people treat you. You can just speak honestly about your experiences. And when you do that, the way you are treated becomes the topic of discussion. If you started lying about, exaggerating or misrepresenting those experiences, i.e. saying you were treated worse than you actually were, then the debate would change: It would become about your accuracy and honesty rather than your experiences. That’s why I’m NOT on the doctor’s side. Because he created monstrous, inaccurate versions of the crew, they focused on the fairness of their portrayals rather than whether or not his overall feelings of oppression were valid.
@ariadnavigo
@ariadnavigo Жыл бұрын
Trans woman here: I'm sorry you're going through this. Sending you lots of love and strength my dear ❤
@TheCatherineCC
@TheCatherineCC Жыл бұрын
@@ljhcmh614 The problem is that anytime we bring up factual things, we are accused of exaggerating or lying. "Oh, I only misgendered you in front of that major client one time, it's not like every time" And so we either never say anything (most of the time) and sometimes just quietly leave the situation. If we try to discuss impact / or how a situation makes us feel, we often only do so once or twice because we are reliably accused of histrionics and sometimes chased out of whatever group we were part of for it because those in charge don't want to accept that they could have unwittingly and ignorantly harmed us. Same goes for any other minority group having a civil rights struggle. The majority always claims the minority is exaggerating, that it is making things up. As minorities we are inherently distrusted and our accuracy and honesty is always questioned. "$GROUP didn't have it so bad before" is a cultural meme, and that's said in the light of historical revisionism. Photographs were seen as (sometimes) objective, the minority's reports were not. That's the real truth of this story that people are missing.
@kaitlyn__L
@kaitlyn__L Жыл бұрын
@@TheCatherineCC yeah, it's been wild to have lived through all the gay rights push in the 90s only for modern transphobes to claim they always supported gay rights (statistically impossible) and/or that gays never had the same kind of animosity that trans people have today. Both clearly revisionist as hell.
@ShikiKiryu
@ShikiKiryu Жыл бұрын
@@TheCatherineCC See, you get it.
@Sk8rToon
@Sk8rToon Жыл бұрын
Not to play devil’s advocate (support the strikes ✊) but seeing this episode after a court deemed works created by AI as uncopyrightable hits differently. Obviously our AI technology is nowhere near the Doctor. It’s vastly different. However it feels like had this episode been written today they would have cited the recent ruling as case law that the federation law was based on. Solely AI created work not being able to be copyrighted is a huge win for writers & other creatives. One I agree with! (Though I’m sure it will be danced around by studios & others in the years to come. No matter the outcome of the strike I think this will always be a battle.) But it does make you wonder if centuries from now if it will be thought of as wrong.
@thod8820
@thod8820 Жыл бұрын
If true AI exists that can create and isn't just recycling concepts that can be tied directly to other works then I think it would be wrong. But that's not what's happening now.
@snakebitcat
@snakebitcat Жыл бұрын
ChatGPT is nowhere close to the level of sentience the Doctor has, so no such irony is present.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Ya, this episode hits different in today's context. Even if it's a true AI, I'd think it'd be difficult to acknowledge a man-made (possibly even man trained and man maintained) piece of tech as being sentient and equal in personhood to humanity. That would be a struggle no matter what.
@headkittens
@headkittens 11 ай бұрын
When you can replicate items on a whim and money isn't a necessity, at least in Federation core worlds, society's values can change to allow new definitions of artists and their art. You could look at when they simply wanted to make a new doctor while he was away and while they could load up a lookalike with information, it was nowhere near the Doctor, it didn't know what to do with it. And while that might suggest a Lewis Zimmerman special sauce, these are skills the Doctor developed in isolation of his creation, like a person. Voyager even encountered photonic beings, would Federation law have recognised them, does it even have to. Unfortunately we didn't see them ingest all of Voyager's collected data so we'll never know.
@headkittens
@headkittens 11 ай бұрын
I guess we saw Moriarty drew the short straw in Season 3 of Picard, so no luck there, but we all the know the writing there isn't even at Voyager standards
@mix-up9003
@mix-up9003 Жыл бұрын
At first I thought the story Doc wrote was petty, but over time it did made me realized how many times Doc was threaten and wants and needs ignored ignored by the crew on many occasions. I thought it was an interesting episode if a bit weird in it's moral it was trying to convey.
@Falconman1121
@Falconman1121 Жыл бұрын
In the last year or so, this episode was at the forefront of my mind when I was injured and had to wear a wound vac for a while. They got me a portable wound vac, and it was actually very convenient as medical devices go. But I couldnt help but suddenly identify with the Doc's perspective of the mobile emitter. Really brought me around on what I at first considered a completely hyperbolic description. Must be the Janeway in me. 😂
@Match451
@Match451 Жыл бұрын
I agree with a lot of your points, but it can very very hurtful to have someone parody you. The doctor doesn't even realize that, and I think one of the purpose's of the episode is to demonstrate the doctor's naivete and growth as a result of hurting others' feelings. That doesn't mean the doctors feelings or experiences are invalid. But as a person, he's starting to learn that his actions have *emotional impact* on those around him and will affect his relationships. He grows to understand that both his feelings and the feelings of those around him are valid, and to act in such a way to maintain his relationships.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Totally agree, well said. I really appreciated that he decided to make the changes in the end. He's learning and growing relationally and in depth of understanding of others.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Really warmed my heart when he decided to make the changes instead of stubbornly and self centredly insisting on his point of view only at the expense of others or at the very least, at the expense of his relationship with others. It's a growing maturity I admire.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Seeing the Doctor taking those active steps to redress the holonovel situation in consideration of his friends the crew, it really mends the bridge with them instead of burning it and they are in a good position emotionally and relationally after that to stand up for him and defend him wholeheartedly in turn. To me, that's beautiful.
@formlessone8246
@formlessone8246 Жыл бұрын
I personally think that it's a bit ironic that Steve is making these reviews in support of the strike but failed to recognize one of the key issues, stated or otherwise, of the episode that is the basis of the crew's discomfort. They had no control over the use of their likeness, which is an issue that SAG-AFTRA has with the proposals of the AMPTP about how generative AI should be used in the film industry. While their larger concerns might come off as selfish, they were willing to go to bat for him once he agreed to change the faces of his characters. As a hologram who shares the same face as every other installation of his program, it's clearly an issue he has never seriously considered before because just giving Tom Paris a moustache didn't mean he wasn't recognized by his crewmates instantly. They didn't explain the point very well until Tom changed the program to abuse the likeness of the Doctor himself. I think that they just assumed he would get it because they are unique in appearance and thus desire innate control over the use of their faces, and forgot that his face isn't unique. It's a problem the show already dealt with in relation to his creator who made the mistake of giving up that control by giving his face to the EMH. But that was a sample size of one to the Doctor. He hadn't considered whether that was a universal concern for humanoids. It's one thing to roast your friends in a private setting, another to publicly dox them online in the name of satire, for instance.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
@@formlessone8246 Yes, ironic indeed. Good point about the Doctor not understanding because he shares his likeness with his creator and all his fellow Mark-1 EMHs.
@philippemarcil2004
@philippemarcil2004 Жыл бұрын
I really liked this series of labor episodes reviews.
@Chiscringle
@Chiscringle Жыл бұрын
If the Doctor doesn't have the rights to the holonovel, then as a legal asset of Starfleet, it should be owned by them and the admiral can have it recalled. Either way, the publisher has no way to win that fight. I think the Voyager crew could have been more supportive, but I think their feelings aren't too different from the TNG crew's when they saw what Reg Barclay was doing with people who looked like them, only this time the Doctor intends to publish this to the general public rather than use it privately. It should have been done better to show they were lashing out partly because of that and partly because they were probably hurt that the Doctor felt like that even now, though he could easily argue that it's how he felt earlier and it's hard to argue that they were a lot more dismissive of him before. Also, the Doctor was probably hit a little close to home by Tom's depiction, what with how what he's done to Seven is way worse than what the fictional Doctor did in that program. The whole possessing her body and using it to eat until she got sick and then engage in sexual acts with their captor. Something which, had it been done by the character of the week on DS9 or TNG, would have gotten him deleted. I think it's pretty consistent characterization. The Doctor is often self-absorbed, overly impressed by his own talents, dismissive of the feelings of others when he puts them in his stories, as we see in Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy where he depicts Tuvok going berserk during Pon Farr and then jokes about it in song.
@ivane5110
@ivane5110 Жыл бұрын
These topics always make me think of Jack Kirby and so many other awesome artists (drawers, inkers, writers, creators) that were rssponsible for so many of my fondest childhood memories all the while they and their loved ones were often just scraping or even going hungry while those very masterpieces were drawing in riches and acclaim for DC and Marvel (and no doubt other companies).
@MaraudingManiac
@MaraudingManiac Жыл бұрын
I'd've liked to see at least one member of the crew, genuinely hurt but wanting to do better say something like "...are we good, man? Should I be treating you better?" Janeway's decision to help the Doctor would have been more noble if she defended his original version instead of a version which cast her in a better light
@Tuaron
@Tuaron Жыл бұрын
I think Tom Paris' version of the holonovel is a reasonable response, in that it's a moment for the Doctor to understand how his thinly veiled versions of his crewmates does hurt people who do care about him, but perhaps instead of them moving to get us to the arbitration, the episode should've then had the two properly confront each other and come to terms with how each of them are treating the other, with Tom at least acknowledging and validating the Doctor's feelings or even coming out in favour of publishing it as is (with the thinly veiled copies) while promising to do better.
@KariIzumi1
@KariIzumi1 Жыл бұрын
NGL, heavy handedness aside, this is the best way to describe how being Black in America is like and navigating through whiteness. Like when I talked on Facebook about redlining still exists and one guys responded w “But you’re a vet, you have a VA loan” 🙃☠️
@FoxDreams
@FoxDreams 3 ай бұрын
I think the main thing the writers were saying in this episode is, even when they disagree with a member of their crew, they still have their back...they didn't LIKE what he said about them in the holonovel -- but they stood behind his right to do what HE wanted with the results...
@MotherShipMedia
@MotherShipMedia Жыл бұрын
There was one comment from the publisher in this one that seemed VERY relevant that you seem to have missed - he mentions that his best-selling children's series is "written" by Toby the Targ, but Toby hasn't complained. I thought, given the AI issues in the current strikes, and the literal desire from studios to use "Toby the Targ" like AI creations to avoid paying artists gives this episode a unique tie to the current strike issues. Even in the future, "studios" don't want to give artists rights, and see AI as a "free alternative" that they have complete control over ...
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
I know this is obvious and not the main labour point but am just gonna say it anyway. There are two sides to it. The rights of a person to have creative expression and freedom in their work and the rights of the other person whose reputation is demonstrably harmed or affect-able by it to not be so defamed. I think both sides have their merit and society is a constant balancing act of opposing and conflicting rights. Could the crew have been more compassionate and understanding of the underlying plight? Yes, I give you that, they could have used a more Guinan approach here. Maybe they should have even been more self reflective. But that doesn't negate that they are also entitled to feel a bit upset or violated that their almost-exact likeness was used so directly in a way that is easily misunderstood or mis-associated. I also don't think it's a leap for them to later defend the Doctor in the arbitration. To me, it does not conflict with their earlier dismay at being portrayed in such a light by a friend. Agree to disagree but that's my take.
@tanterouge4339
@tanterouge4339 Жыл бұрын
It's like the episode when the Doctor's backup is started on a planet 709 years in the future or so, where the memory of the crew of Voyager has been distorted. While the crew were never evil mustache twirlers, at one point says "these are nothing like the real crew, they weren't constantly at their throats" and it's like ... are you sure you don't need some help recovering from toxic family abuse, Doctor? The crew is always assholes, they're passive aggresive and always talk about each other with utmost sarcasm. They constantly talk about how bad of a bedside manner the Doctor has, but it seems like they all just think about how he was on the first day of his activation. For all his other toxic behaviours, Neelix is the most emotionally functional of this bunch.
@danblanks3190
@danblanks3190 Жыл бұрын
There are parallels of this episode with the real-life experience of Truman Capote. During 1975 to 1976, Capote published several fictional stories with characters loosely based on his high-society friends. The portrayals were quite scandalous and less than flattering. Somehow Capote convinced himself it would not be a big deal to his friends. It was a massive miscalculation. HIs now former friends were enraged to the point of ostracizing him from their social circles. While things don't get quite as bad for the Doctor in this episode, I have to wonder if the authors had Capote's experiences in mind when they wrote it.
@superslammer
@superslammer Жыл бұрын
I love most of the doctor episodes. The parts I liked were the funny reactions of the crew at the beginning when watching his depiction of them. But they ganged up on him. Even in the picture you show of them at the conference table, they're on one side, he's on the other. that seems a bit intentional. I would love to have seen the crew react differently... questioning if they had done something to make him feelbad about them. None of this though is stuff I felt at the time I first watched it when it was airing on TV. You age, you grow. Tuvix always made me uncomfortable. it was heartbreaking and extremely out of character for everyone on board. It bothered me for a long time.
@billmcdonough3950
@billmcdonough3950 Жыл бұрын
If there are no supervisors marketers, or people to run a company, labor will find those among them who can try to perform those tasks. If there is no labor, executives cannot do all of the jobs needed, and usually won't even try. In other words: 'If there's only workers, we'll manage. If there's only managers, it don't work.'
@Bronzite
@Bronzite 11 ай бұрын
You raise some good points. My read of "Author, Author" was that one of its messages was a reminder that even people who are "enlightened" (as we're normally given to presume Starfleet crews are) can be prone to abandoning those values, or at least ignoring them, when their own status is threatened. The crew of Voyager is ardently against the Doctor's publication because they are concerned about their own reputations, and they've lost sight of their base values. Once the situation is restructured for them to see it from a different angle, they align more with the sentient rights perspective we've come to expect. And although you're right that we're never given a scene of the Doctor admitting his characters' personalities are outsized versions of the real crew, I'm not sure I can give serious credence to that reading of the episode. The doctor is, at a minimum, keenly aware of the difference between himself and the rest of the crew both physically and legally. He has had numerous cases to doubt that the crew sees him as anything more than a piece of technology when the chips are really down. I think there was a missed opportunity late in Voyager's run to do an episode that mirrored Latent Image, but where Janeway rewrote an organic crewmember's memory for the sake of their mental or physical health, or for the good of the ship. There were a lot of opportunities there to dig into these areas that sadly never got produced.
@uvp5000
@uvp5000 Жыл бұрын
Until this review, I had not given "Author, Author" much consideration. It was a Voyager episode, and Voyager either hit the ball out of the park or, too many other times, was painfully awkward. This episode felt awkward at times for me, and your analysis makes clear why I was left with this feeling. There was an opportunity to delve deeply into the subject matter yet it felt like the writing pulled back before more substantively exploring that depth. I would gladly watch it again; I just wouldn't seek it out the way I would "The Inner Light", "The Visitor", "The Measure of a Man", or, one of my favorite Voyager episodes, "Resistance". I don't need every episode of a television series to be exceptional, but I would like good storytelling, and "Author, Author" ran the gamut from adequate to good at times. Voyager's writing had already done better and could have done better here.
@kaitlyn__L
@kaitlyn__L Жыл бұрын
I do think we're meant to read the situation of the Doctor's respect among the crew as being cemented by the end of season 7. Season 5 Janeway's brain erasure showed that she was basically just humouring him in seasons 3 and 4, but also her decision to help him work through it at the end of said episode demonstrated that she'd changed her mind about the situation by the end. (Even though her immediately doing it again at the start of the episode is what we all remember and it undermines the ending in our memories.) They had the ECH and everything by then, he was going to leave the ship a couple of times, he was regularly hosting photo-essays or vocal renditions for the crew. He wasn't being turned-off anymore basically at all, like he still was a fair chunk of the time in seasons 4&5. So he's definitely airing historic grievances, and grievances for how the other EMHs are presumably treated, given the lines of dialogue about "writing what you know" and doing it for his "EMH brothers" and so on. But I don't think it's completely unreasonable to think that he has no current, ongoing grievances with the crew by year 7 of their journey. Of course I would've loved to have seen Voyager dramatise some of those discussions I'm presuming he had with crew (after season 5) off-screen, but even DS9 wasn't immune to shoving a lot of those revelatory conversations into a literal cupboard in the corner of a room. So for me, that aspect doesn't play against this episode as much as you're indicating. I would've liked a little more discussion about how it used to be like that before they got better, but it's not this massive wall in my brain I can't get past.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly about the brain erasure episode.
@paulhammond6978
@paulhammond6978 11 ай бұрын
@@yiqingtan4079 Yes, the brain erasure episode does problematically evade the Doctor's autonomy, but my recall of it was that Janeway did that for the Doctor's own benefit in her opinion - because the result of not removing those memories previously had led to a breakdown for the Doctor - so it's not the clear cut "doesn't regard the Doctor as a person" thing that Steve suggests it is when he mentions it here.
@ghijkmnop
@ghijkmnop Жыл бұрын
I can't remember whether anyone reminded Doctor Joe about the multiple times he was an insufferable prick while doing his job, yet didn't mention this in his narrative.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Yes, the Doctor's character and bedside manner left much to be desired initially. Took him a very long time and much character development for that to evolve.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Food for thought: In the Alpha quadrant, his fellow Mark-1 EMHs were not afforded the chance to grow and change that he himself was afforded by the dire and unique circumstances of Voyager being stranded in the Delta quadrant without a way to get a new Starfleet doctor. Given the Mark-1 EMHs' out-of-box character defects and horrible personality unbecoming of a medical professional, of course they were done away with once the more amiable and compassionate Mark-2 was implemented. Not wanting to waste their matrices, they were put to work in a dilithium mine. Not supporting their oppression or anything but none of it was malicious and it sort of makes sense why the technology was used that way.
@dkSilo
@dkSilo Жыл бұрын
This is one of the times where I feel one like isn't enough. Great review, especially the tie in to the strikes happening. Thanks.
@feralstorm
@feralstorm Жыл бұрын
Some more variation in the crew responses, from anger/hurt feelings, to "this looks bad on the surface" to pointing out Doc's own self-absorbed actions, (Paris can still dick around with the program) to "is this really how you feel? I/we need to do better then" might have helped, if it could be done without making the story too bloated. Whether intentional or not, this is presented as a series capper to the Doctor's arc for achieving personhood among the crew, and is a bit like real life in that way - far from ideal, but a great deal better than the "meh, I'm done with you. Computer, turn off EMH." of the first season.
@GrannyGamer1
@GrannyGamer1 Жыл бұрын
🎉picardo is so under appreciated. Ever see hum in China Beach? Thanks for the labor series!💯🖖🏾
@njb1126
@njb1126 Жыл бұрын
Steve you missed a great opportunity at 9:12 to say “it’s been a long road”
@njb1126
@njb1126 Жыл бұрын
Kate mulgrew is a fantastic actress. If it weren’t for her skill then Janeway might’ve come across like Jenkins
@simonmacomber7466
@simonmacomber7466 Жыл бұрын
There is a part of me that suspects that the writers of the episode were told to "make changes to the story so that feelings won't be hurt," much like the doctor is convinced to do so.
@natbarmore
@natbarmore Жыл бұрын
Oh, the next batch should be interesting: I always enjoy your reviews, and usually agree with at least the broad strokes (good parts, bad parts, is it a good ep?). Sometimes you persuade me to reevaluate my opinion of an ep. I find the Q generally uninteresting, and episodes with Q frequently rank among my bottom tier-and if I like them it’s generally despite, not because of, the presence of Q. So it’ll be interesting to see if you change my mind.
@allanolley4874
@allanolley4874 Жыл бұрын
I wish I remembered this episode, but I think it's another one I failed to ever watch all the way through. All I remember is Paris's It's the Doctor's World Your Just Living in It holo-novel. The plot of someone writes a book where all the characters are thinly veiled references to their colleagues and everyone's feelings gets hurt was as I recall in full force here. My vague sense would be Paris's response is a perfectly sound response to the "but it isn't actually about you" deflection, like even if its clearly a fictionalization it would still be hard to avoid feeling the association, the Doctor can't avoid it either even if it is petty, so I dare say its not that petty, even if the lack of reaction about other parts is petty or uncharitable etc. I can not remember any of the subtleties of the depiction so whether indeed the writing is unself aware is hard for me to comment on. I think just as described it can't be that unaware, if it was the case the episode tried to portray the doctor never as facing discrimination then that would just be inconsistent with the plot point where he faces discrimination and so on. I mean to me Star Trek often falls for starting with a general problem that then suffers monomania focus on one part of a problem and once you resolve that part of the problem is over as far as the episode is concerned and the broader issues raised or implicit in the issue are ignored. This is sort of a side effect of wanting stories to wrap up by the end of episodes.
@davidnaas8366
@davidnaas8366 Жыл бұрын
The Arbitrator decides the EMH is kind of a person because he is rebellious, he disobeys an order. Ergo, the more a person disobeys, the freer they are.
@jeremievigliaturo1317
@jeremievigliaturo1317 Жыл бұрын
It makes me wonder. Sometimes I ask ChatGPT to brush up my resume. At what point do we consider AI to have rights? When do I have to ask ChatGPT if I can use what its produced if it doesnt know to ask for compinsation? Does it not have rights if its not in the programing to say no? Are we required to program a AI that is robust enough to be free thinking or can we just code robots to fulfill our needs and leave them to the Dilithium mine
@dragon22214
@dragon22214 Жыл бұрын
Let's be real as much as we love the doc he can over exadrate things quite a lot so it is hard to take him seriously
@Neilhammond64
@Neilhammond64 Жыл бұрын
The holonovel is Lore Reloaded's memory of the actual show.
@KyuuTomoyaki
@KyuuTomoyaki 4 ай бұрын
The solution to the Tuvix issue is easy: make a holographic duplicate of him before bringing Neelix and Tuvok back. Or hell, it's the 24th century. Couldn't they just clone him?
@PeoplecallmeLucifer
@PeoplecallmeLucifer Жыл бұрын
8:40 TO BE FAIR! besides Delta quadrant species the only people doc knew were the crew. so he used those appearance. But also to be fair ... HE SHOULD HAVE OWNED IT! It'd make for a more powerful message Tie back to the events when Docs rights were broken. NAME THEM! And have the crew take another look at the novel and be "Oh shit it me"
@Chiscringle
@Chiscringle Жыл бұрын
The player keeps having to replay chapters because they got the wrong crew member mad and had their memory erased.
@jan-rs6im
@jan-rs6im Жыл бұрын
i do love voyager in large part because of the doctor - this episode works for me - i understand the issues Steve sees and describes, but it's still one of my favorites
@tomharrison1393
@tomharrison1393 Жыл бұрын
Until you mentioned Tuvix, I was loudly thinking but Tuvix, Tuvix! The fact they never called back to that episode is imo the weakest aspect of that episode. This would have been one ideal opportunity - the doctor was the only one who spoke up for neelix, as weak as his protests were. In the doctors holonovel, the player could be confronted by the same situation, and the doctor's decision to refuse to perform the murder but to nevertheless stand by while Janeway did makes more sense if he perceives his own security as dangerously fragile in the crew. If he spoke up more they might switch him off! Or reprogram him! And their same inability to consider the doctor as fully sentient and deserving of life was in play with Tuvix. It would have been a strong place to call back and actually create consequences (for once) in VOY
@whyjrob
@whyjrob 11 ай бұрын
granted, i don't remember the order of episodes and i'm too busy right now to google it, but I was also thinking this. Like what about the time the doctor was sent to the other ship at the edge of the quadrant to help that newer version EMH save the top secret prototype starfleet ship? or the time they encountered a whole ship run by renegade murderous sentient holograms, or the species that treats holograms as second class "citizens" because of those rebelling murderous holograms (or was it the other way around? they rebelled because they were treated so badly?) either way.
@SweetSweetCandyBoyz
@SweetSweetCandyBoyz Жыл бұрын
Yowza - I agree with everything you said and I've felt exactly as you explained in your breakdown/analysis even back when this first aired. The doctor winning his rights as an artist is great, but the episode is never self-aware enough to address the crew's behavior regardless if their reaction is justified or not.
@woogywips
@woogywips Жыл бұрын
Your thoughts on this episode almost perfectly mirror my own, and Voyager's cree have always treated the Doc like a second class citizen when the chips were down. The one thing I wanted to point out that you didn't mention was the absurdity of using former EMHs to mine... ignoring how they do so without mobile emitters (it's not like it's ever been easy to install holographic emitter or they would have done so across the ship), you have holograms that can literally be ANYTHING you can imagine and you choose sentient bipeds design to do complex surgeries?!?! Just program in an unfeeling machine that defies physics and have it go to town on the rock in ways that people and real machines never could. It seems intentionally cruel to consign holograms with even the appearance of sentience to forced, eternal labor.
@linksbetweendrinks7032
@linksbetweendrinks7032 10 ай бұрын
My thoughts exactly! This killed me when the episode premiered! Nobody even once bothers to ask, "Is this how we make you feel?" It felt very... not Star Trek.
@shawnholbrook7278
@shawnholbrook7278 Жыл бұрын
The writer(s) knew. They expect humans to know better, to feel, and to think. Also, the ones that don't get it will never get it. Unless they get sick, or exploited, or discounted because of (any reason at all). Query, what would you do if you had less rights or privileges than the average person in your community? Would you rant? What if you were trying to help people see "others" as people? Could you be brash and beat them over the head with their insecurities? Or maybe, you could show kindness, patience, and tell the truth without crushing them. Gentleness is strength used with restraint. It is not weakness. Humans really don't know any better. Voyager seems to suffer from different writers, or corporate saying what can and cannot be aired. I like Neelix.
@shaunwatson6354
@shaunwatson6354 Жыл бұрын
I'll be here for your Tuvix episode. Believe it!
@ADavidJohnson
@ADavidJohnson Жыл бұрын
Voyager is definitely the Star Trek series I *think about* the most because it’s often so good but FRUSTRATING how close it gets to being great and misses the mark. So in my head I’m constantly trying to “fix” it. Like, what if Neelix and Tuvok shared the memory of being murdered by Janeway and acted different toward her after that? Or like in this episode, what if the whole point had been to finally acknowledge what monsters the crew were to the Doctor because they still perceived him as an unperson? It’s so close to being great but never seems to get there.
@KoRntech
@KoRntech Жыл бұрын
They all went Borg and stated, "we are not amused."
@wellingtonsmith4998
@wellingtonsmith4998 Жыл бұрын
I'm glad that Steve reviewed this ep. The writers really fell down on the job here, lost the Trekkiness if you will. They do not wrestle with the 'why the Dr feels this way' and never resolves the bigotry issues that were so dang obvious in the earlier seasons, this was a missed opportunity and could have made this ep as good or better than TNG's MoaM which is one of my faves.
@Insightfill
@Insightfill 11 ай бұрын
6:00 "Interstellar Zoom" - yes, I chuckled at that. Janeway by season 7: "F*ck. You want us to come into the office now?"
@Peregrine57
@Peregrine57 Жыл бұрын
If the Doctor's holonovel tells us anything, it's that we can be sure AI generated art isn't going to improve any by the 24th century. You're not wrong; The Voyager crew do often treat the Doctor poorly, even after having learned better. Had it remained confined to just the ship, it might have been one thing; an exercise in reflection. But I do strongly see their side of it too, especially after the work gets out into the general public, and their unflattering, barely veiled caricatures become more broadly known. They're rightly incensed. I'd be pretty pissed off too. Especially learning that he'd gone behind their backs to get it published.
@Tolly7249
@Tolly7249 Жыл бұрын
This is one of my favourite Voyager episodes, even though Janeway is definitely at her worst. Honestly EMH episodes are all my faves though...
@Melaniy-un3kr
@Melaniy-un3kr 5 ай бұрын
This episode is one I use for the "How not to be an ally" talk
@barbaros99
@barbaros99 Жыл бұрын
I always find that episodes like this with the Doctor and "hologram rights" fall flat for me because he just kind of comes from nowhere. With Data, Lore, and Lal, it was supposed to be a huge deal that the androids even exist, that even one of them is priceless to Star Fleet. Then in Voyager, I'm told that not only is there a hologram that is (for all intents and purposes) completely sentient, but that there's one on EVERY starship in the fleet. Some rando at Star Fleet Medical created LIFE, and it's treated like it's no big deal. It's too ridiculous for me to take any episodes like this seriously because if the Doctor IS sentient, the attitudes of the rest of the crew (and Star Fleet in general) are not just callous but are also utterly cruel. And yes, I get that Star Trek plays fast and loose with continuity and conveniently ignores things from other series (or the same series) or outright invents things because the writers want to tell a specific story, but my brain doesn't let me go along with that.
@EvanJoanette
@EvanJoanette 11 ай бұрын
Had a lot of sympathies for the crew originally. But your take is bang on. Doctor's feelings are totally dismissed and crew is more interested in image.
@danieltilson4053
@danieltilson4053 11 ай бұрын
I always thought that the end scene with the hologram saying to run the novel was a little further ahead, after the revisions. But thinking about it as if some copies hadn't been recalled also makes sense.
@MrCommunistGen
@MrCommunistGen 11 ай бұрын
I'd only watched a handful of VOY episodes before it came to streaming, but I remember enjoying this one the most of all of them. I know for sure I saw "Caretaker", "Basics" Pt1 & 2 (I was SO CONFUSED about what was happening), "The Killing Game" Pt2 only (again, SO CONFUSED), "Virtuoso", and "Author, Author". I probably saw a couple more random episodes that I couldn't pick out of a lineup after skimming the whole episode list... I know I did NOT catch the series finale until I watched the whole show on streaming.
@ProgressiveRoxx
@ProgressiveRoxx Жыл бұрын
I can't wait for Steve to review that episode of Voyager where a copy of the Doctor is found like a time capsule by an alien civilisation, just because I want to see him riff on the shows depiction of an "evil" version of Janeway and the irony that it is supposed to be more than only slightly different to regular Janeway.
@yiqingtan4079
@yiqingtan4079 Жыл бұрын
Seeing the Doctor taking those active steps to redress the holonovel situation in consideration of his friends the crew, it really mends the bridge with them instead of burning it and they are in a good position emotionally and relationally after that to stand up for him and defend him wholeheartedly in turn. To me, that's beautiful.
@patrickdodds7162
@patrickdodds7162 Жыл бұрын
Steve is going to review "Hide and Q"! Steve, I hope you use all your snarkiness power on that one. Use your power...use your power...use your power...
@Oonagh72
@Oonagh72 Жыл бұрын
The crew of Voyager are a bag of dix and I have always wondered how the writers never saw this. They are the only Trek show where I began to actively root for for whom ever they were fighting. I truly wanted all of them to get blown up (other than Naomi Wildman of course.)
@goemonronin
@goemonronin 6 ай бұрын
If i remember in "Latent Image", she compared him to a malfunctioning replicator. Regardless of what she preaches she doesn't seem to actually believe Doc is a person. She humors him.
@captainyossarian388
@captainyossarian388 Жыл бұрын
The Doctor doesn't even have his own quarters. He's definitely prejudiced against.
@gothatfunk
@gothatfunk Жыл бұрын
Great review Steve. I particularly liked the episode, because of the chemistry on display between the characters. The conversation between Tom and the Doctor in the hallway is funny - and even though its glossed over, the fact that Tom seems to care about having the Doctor's respect, is proof that, for Tom at least, he's considered the Doctor a person for some time. It might have been worth mentioning that, in Season 1, even the Doctor doesn't think of himself as anything more than a program. "I don 't have a life, I have a program" he says in one episode. It was Kes who immediately and irretrievably acknowledged the Doctor's personhood, and encouraged the Doctor to think of himself in such terms. Due to her mentioning it to Janeway, the doctor got the ability to turn himself off, or prevent being turned off against his will. Thus begins his journey. In Latent Image, Janeway openly admits her prejudice towards the Doctor, but tries to rise above it. Picard, by contrast, never ever treated Data as anything other than a sentient being. This only one of the ways that The Measure of a Man is superior to Author Author. The Voyager crew, and the Doctor towards them, had always found the other to be annoying. This annoyance, I think, went some way towards reinforcing prejudices, in both directions. In TNG, the crew admired, even relied on, the fact that Data had certain abilities and skills that made him a superior being - in Voyager, they just found the Doctor annoying due to his smugness, and though they also relied on the Doctor's superior abilities, they didn't credit him, personally, until Season 7. Its true that the Doctor had, almost from the start, an egotism that Data never had. Either that, or the Enterprise crew were just simply better people than the Voyager crew.
@joshuairwin2016
@joshuairwin2016 Жыл бұрын
This one is in my top 5 Voyager episodes. An all time classic. Great review as always Steve!
@matthewhallberg8256
@matthewhallberg8256 11 ай бұрын
Just recently a judge ruled that works created by Artificial Intelligence cannot be copyrighted. We solved this one 300 years early. Well done, folks.
@xileets
@xileets 11 ай бұрын
I don't remember this episode, but it's "Measure of a Man" with less moral questions, self-reflection, and less on the line? I don't think it did enough to question the source or soul behind the creation of art. If they'd chopped the section with Tom... we'd have missed the best part, like you said... Well, I feel like they could chop something to develop the notion more that creation REQUIRES A SOUL. The motivation for the doctor's work is also handled poorly. Like you said...
@margarethofstetter7137
@margarethofstetter7137 8 ай бұрын
I had a bit of a different take on this episode. I think the crew hadquite a learning arc when it comes to the doctor. Yes, they initially consider him to be a tool, then later treat him badly, often saying he "brings it on himself" due to his "lousy bedside manner." But by the time of this episode I think they are upset with the portrayal of them because they have changed, and doesn't the doctor recognize that? If the doctor had mentioned that's how they treated him at first that would have helped, then they could have been upset that people will think they still treat him like that. They do treat him like any other member of the crew by this time, and he is respected and even liked. I think it was all kind of confusing.
@1monki
@1monki Жыл бұрын
The holographic doctor is more self-aware than the human VOY crew.
@djwaffle
@djwaffle Жыл бұрын
It brings questions we face today with AI creating things. Does it belong to the AI or the programmer? How does it make the AI feel? Did the programmer take into account the AI's rights as a creator? Does the AI have a case for being paid? I think a lot of those questions depends on how horrible we are to each other, we treat others worse.
@justinproctor960
@justinproctor960 11 ай бұрын
Janeway here proves how captains can make bad lawyers - or really, why bad writing can make captains be bad lawyers. "A Measure of a Man" isn't just the inspiration for this episode; in-universe, it's precedent, and precedent that weighs very heavily in favor of The Doctor's case. My guess is that the writers' didn't want to reference it directly because it would make it too obvious that they were kind of remaking a Next Generation episode, but to not reference Data's case here is pretty much legal malpractice.
@tonoornottono
@tonoornottono Жыл бұрын
the other crew members just stood by and watched tuvix die because they literally needed to trust the transporter. they’re completely alone in outer space and there’s an unspoken agreement that janeway will get them back if there’s a way to get them back. if they can’t trust her to do that, they can’t trust her and they can’t trust the mission at all. they watch silently, but they don’t explain, because they do know they’re killing somebody. it’s not about getting tuvok and neelix back, as janeway says a few times, that’s just a convenient lie. it’s about preserving the trust of the crew. that shot of the whole crew staring at tuvix, that’s not a moment where the crew is willing to sacrifice tuvix to get their friends back. they’re willing to sacrifice him for themselves, for their faith in janeway. and janeway kinda senses an unspoken mutiny in her crew. it goes completely unspoken in the episode. but that shot of the whole crew staring, that’s the thesis. that’s what the entire episode was secretly about. star trek has a lot of weird fucked up episodes but voyager in particular really leaned on “wouldn’t it be fucked up if that happened?” as a throughline quite a lot.
@johnmckinnon420
@johnmckinnon420 11 ай бұрын
Everyone has their faults. In the end they have each others back😊.
@kirok2011
@kirok2011 11 ай бұрын
The Doctor's comment as far I know Janeway hasn't killed anyone ... cough cough Tuvix
@rifter0x0000
@rifter0x0000 11 ай бұрын
I think the Doctor's protestations of innocence have to be viewed in the light of the his precarious situation. Every meeting with the senior staff of this kind is literally a fight for his life. He knows the captain can have him erased or reprogrammed at the drop of a hat and has already several times for her own convenience. The slightest hint he might resent or have any negative feelings about the crew could mean death for him. He has to keep them happy precisely because they always put their own convenience above his very existence much less his right to self determination and being who he wants to be. So even if he feels horribly oppressed, he can never say that out loud to them. That's the problem slaves, prisoners, and the generally downtrodden have always had. You cannot let the masters see your anger or your discontent because it will be horrifically punished and come to no good for you, no mater how justified. Actually the more justified your anger is, the worse it will be for you when the masters see it.
@AnEnemySpy456
@AnEnemySpy456 Жыл бұрын
Steve, you're forgetting that nothing that happens in any episode of Voyager lasts beyond the end credits rolling, so any prejudice the crew has shown the Doctor has never happened from their perspective.
@davidpumpkinsjr.5108
@davidpumpkinsjr.5108 6 ай бұрын
Maybe Neelix liked the program more than the others because he didn't seem to have an exaggerated counterpart in the narrative.
@keffey99
@keffey99 Жыл бұрын
This is one of my favorite episodes. The scenes from the holonovel are hilarious. Please consider doing a video on Voyager S06E13 - Virtuoso.
@tomgon3D
@tomgon3D Жыл бұрын
I know Steve hates revisiting old story lines but I would like to see future Trek shows actually reflect Voyager's journey home with a more critical mindset. I still believe Starfleet command reviewed Janeway's logs and was horrified by some of her actions but they HAD to make her an admiral regardless. Or else it would make them look bad.
@yuuzyerbrejn9603
@yuuzyerbrejn9603 Жыл бұрын
You write about what you know. Should have been a light into an otherwise unrevealed psychology. But the crew and Janeway don't come off very supportive, or understanding. No empathy. Plenty of missed opportunities for the writers. Again. And yes, Tuvix. Imagine a series that had consequences? Oh yeah, DS9. Again, I love the labor-centric episodes Steve, thanks!
@susanscott8653
@susanscott8653 Жыл бұрын
Writers write about more than what they know - crime writers don't commit crime (I hope), historical novelists haven't experienced history then there's scifi and fantasy. Writers research, they may use some of their personal experience but they imagine, they speculate. ST writers certainly do.
@lindsaytoussaint
@lindsaytoussaint 5 ай бұрын
9:59 honestly this didn’t seem odd to me at all. As a black person idk how many times I’ve had to convince white people (friends even) that they hadn’t hurt me or that I hadn’t been deeply offended over something to reduce my suffering and social discomfort and to honestly keep safe. It’s perfectly normal (sad and horrible but a reality) that folks feel compelled to comfort the folks doing harm.
@CamMcGinn1981
@CamMcGinn1981 Жыл бұрын
How do you know that people from the United States (in general) don't truly grasp the metric system? B'Elanna: What was with that thing? It must've weighed 50 kilos. Yet no-one struggles to carry it. She can get away with it as a Klingon, but Neelix and Janeway should be seemingly weighed down by it. 50 Kilos is really REALLY heavy.
@gregoryshipley4637
@gregoryshipley4637 Жыл бұрын
Tangled up with the idea that this decidedly pro artist episode features an AI artist of the kind that much of the protests are against. I know there are plenty of other issues involved in the strikes. But I am left to wonder how writers and artists such as the ones who created this episode would actually view AI art if it ever became of comprable quality and felt "human"
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