I am not a mechanic, but I have a 261 and a 461. I ruined a bar in the 70s, back when they were not self-lubing. I used to bull my way with the saw. I am nearly 70, and I clean my saws every time I use them now. This was a good lesson on chain tightening, awareness while cutting, and not bulling my way in the woods. Good information.

I've learned more in the last 26 minutes from this guy than I have in 50 years? I've always had questions as to problems with my saws ? Thanks Tinman.

Excellent video buddy, great explanation of the transfer of heat from the bar to the bearing!

Very good analysis, a lot of people getting started will save a lot of time by watching and listening to a very good instructor! You have had great teachers, and it shows in your work! Thanks to all the folks who share their knowledge with others! Stay safe out there my friend!👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏🙏

Man I would like another lifetime just for chainsaws. This life is just too short. Seize the day. Thanks for the videos.

While I've been taught to dress my bar and keep the chain sharp and tightened properly, nobody ever explained these kinds of failures could happen. Many thanks - will pass this information forward to my friends! Cheers from Sweden!

Excellent video for us newbies at working on saws! Love the failure analysis. New Sub from over at Buckin Billy and will definitely be watching your content as well

Great vid! It’s great how your camera can focus right up in tight like that to show the play.

Hey Tinman hope you’re doing well today I found your channel from Ironhorse great to meet you 👍🙏✌️💪 Great Explanation Thank you

What a great instructor you are my friend. Even pros should take notes. Very good for us all to see this, don't be an over tightener. Thanks Tinman

Great videos, I enjoy them, I've got a few saws been sawing for 20 years after watching your videos I've been tuning a chinease timberpro, it's a husky replica 58cc I've ported it deleted the base gasket shaped a ram stack between the carb and air cleaner, and now I built an expansion chamber using the original muffler it took a bit of work my first attempt gave good power at extremely low rpm and weak at top end so I re worked it now I have great power throughout and the end of the exhaust is dry so no fuel is waisted, the saw originally had 3.5 hp and now it feels like my sthil ms362c which has 4.8 hp, great inspiration from your videos. 👍

Hay friend you hit the nail on the head excellent observation and explanation Keep it coming 👍

Fantastic Video Tinman !! Great explanations of how this saw was abused and ultimately failed !!

Surfin the tube every once in awhile you find gold....Tinman your gold

Good video. Learned a ton. Keep the chain sharp, run proper fuel mixture with good oil, make sure bar is going oiled properly, clean the filter, and properly tension the chain. If you follow those general rules the saw should last decades unless there is a known defect.

Loved this one. Wish I had seen this a month ago while figurering out my 311 stihl with a 24 bar

100% awesome illustration/ conclusion of the Small Problems become Big Issues! Thank you for explaining the process... Eye opener/ Mind Blowing Conclusion!

I watch Buckin and the Ironhorse. They both have mentioned you. You have a great channel. I have the MS460, the 461's older version. Its an animal. I did a dual port and had it tuned, what a difference!. You will like that 461 alot for anything you throw at it. Like the content and the explanation you gave! Keep the videos coming.

Great analysis, I agree PTO side bearing failure should be no more than the mag side. I can't stress enough the importance of running a sharp and properly adjusted chain. Also just my opinion is another reason these bearings fail is a lack of oil which as you know not only lubricates but also helps to cool again this is just my opion. Great Video My Friend

Tin man awesome video . Very helpful for troubleshooting a saw , like to see more videos like that .......

Spot On tin man Spot On. My dad was a logger and boy his pet peave before passing this year was your explanation. Luv you channel. I’ll pass this info to my son. Keep it up.

Very cool video!! Great information and makes sense!! Thanks for sharing!!

Love it when a journeyman shares his knowledge. Excellent

nice video man and a lot of people forget to double the oil on first tank on new saws witch my opinion is important that's what I learned in school. but total agree with keeping chain sharp let chain do the work no need to be pushing light or hard on pto side my thoughts.

Great video, great analysis of the saw!

cheers mate , big hi from sydney australia , not many people porting saws down under , commercially anyways . great vids .

Wow! The things you learn the hard way! I'm glad I saw this before ruining another saw. After all these years... I wish I had back all the saws I scrapped. Excellent analysis! I've come away with a greater understanding of saws. I can now treat my new saw with some care and diligence, while using my old saw as practice for rebuilding and porting. Your videos are like going to saw school. Thanks, Tinman!

Thanks again Tinman. I am close to having watched all your vids now. Instructional and entertaining. I envy those who are yet to have seen em....lucky buggers!

Love your videos man so good!

This is another outstanding video! I would not have noticed that wear line on the piston skirts. If I'm honest, I would have likely overlooked that glaring evidence of the bar having been overheated. NICE!

Exactly. You described what my new MS391 did. Was not oiling properly, got the bar hot, got the clutch hot, got the lower end hot, and then boom. Stihl rebuilt it for me but, the saw just did not like milling...oiler insufficient. Stihl bars seem not to oil very well and matched up with a stingy oil pump, not a good match.

Very cool ! I learned a bunch ! Thank you- Scott

You were explaining how a crank seal and or bearing can fail which you are correct , i would like to add that sometimes when a saw gets pinched in the cut it can pull on the chain which pulls on the crank putting pressure on the crank bearings and you can hear the rpms drop so if you don't turn the saw off right away that pressure wears on the bearings burning them out.

Paul from Iowa, I need to talk to my Wife to get her to bid on saws, you have a Good Woman!!!

Awesome video! Thank you so much for explaining the “why” behind all the rules I was taught as an early sawyer. I will be sharing this with any new sawyers I train! Just curious, how/what are the physics to a saw running more lean when it gets hot? Does it induce pre-ignition or something (Which maybe would explain the piston slapping around in the cylinder like it did???), and then too much oil is burned up running the RPM’s up and not enough unburned oil left to lubricate?

Great video, interesting information. Thank you.

You did a good job pointing out the abuse on that bar and the resulting failure.

In stihl manual it tells you to slack the chain after use if you have retensioned it at operating temp. As the chain cools it gets even tighter and can damage the crankshaft and bearings.

When the Husky Xtorq's first came out, I bought a 372xp. I got an afternoon out of the bearings. In my case it was shitty bearings and they gave me another new saw and I haven't had any issues.

A very good informative video. Thanks.

Great explanation.. love this video

Love the diagnose videos

Thorough commentary thank you. I don’t want to start anything but what oil and ratio do you prefer please?

hi there lots of good advice thanks john

Makes total sense, thanks for the explanation!

Looks as though you made a good purchase. I'd guess the chain was too tight half of the time and from the look of the bar just above the adjuster hole to the top there was plenty of slop once the chain was good and hot! I'm thinking the bluing on the clutch facing and drum are from nearly stalling the chain in the kerf. It's amazing how many folks will dog in and only pull about half the ideal rpm due to the load they're putting on the chain, dull or not! There is a happy balance to be achieved. I love seeing a saw walk through a log at an optimum rpm and sling'n chips... The desired Happy Balance! Bless'ns to ya, Tedd

Thank you, this really helped

Hey Tinman. Thanks for these videos, I learn a ton from your channel. I Recently picked up a low hour 461 manufactured in 2020. I can tell the clutch got very hot previously. The clutch drum and the clutch itself have bluing and darkening. I couldn't get the e-clip off (ended up breaking it with pliers) but the rest of the components came off no problem. The saw runs fine. The piston looks good aside from a little wear at the bottom of the skirt on the intake side. How much of a concern is this past overheating if it didn't blow up the saw? Aside from the discoloration on the clutch drum / clutch, there are no obvious signs that it happened. Does this have implications for the life of the saw? What else should I be checking based on the condition of the clutch?

Great info. Thanks

This is great advice but allow to add to keeping chain sharp and not too tight. Always check and refill the chain oil. I almost burned mine because I assumed the oil was still enough but then the chain locked and I didn't know how I was running it on empty oil. Scary stuff. Could have been an expensive fix

Excellent failure analysis. There is a lot of different opinions on over-tight chains. So what is the Tinman’s recommendation on the right amount tightness? Thanks for the great information.

Good video how do u like to remove your aluminum transfer from your cylinders??

I wish I had the knowledge to rebuild chainsaws thank you for making theese videos

So run it like you stole it, Aye? That got hot! Another great video.

That is a pretty sporty saw, thanks for sharing, good info! Port that baby and wake it up! Stay safe buddy!👍👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏🙏🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

excellant analysis!

Ironhorse sent us over

hi, does the chain not stop with this damage even when idling and the engine dies when I engage the chain brake? the clutch bell has already been renewed, unfortunately without success. it is also an 461 thank you

I picked up a 350 several years ago that had been rebuilt but the case was melted where the pto bearing sits, so it leaked and I had to get a new case. It was run hard, dull, and dry.

that clutch looks like it heated up where the spring was missing... any idea why one of the springs was not there?

I got given a 461 that was found in the middle of the road(it fell off its ride to the dump). Being run over by a large excavator caused its failure, all I could salvage were piston, oiler, coil and a a couple other small parts.

Excellent!

Where do you bid on your saws?

I agree w what youre saying about operator error,,,

is it possible that all the problems started because of the missing clutch spring? Noticed the discoloration is mostly on the part of the clutch with no spring

I work for local government we can’t get aftermarket parts and the manufacturers price their parts to expensive to repair so we usually just wind up tossing them into the dumpster for salvage. You wouldn’t believe the stuff we throw out. Sometimes the tech’s make out. On that deal.

Where can I go to see these saws

Just found a 2020 461, no m-tronic. I snatched it up right away!

please can you do a how to port on a ms500i

Hey tin man I’m looking for a blown up MS 361 if you could help me with that

He says bought at auction, where? I’m looking for a project just like this a bigger stihl that needs a complete overhaul.

Hello, I remove the muffler in this saw?? 😮😮

also if the chain was hot when put away it will shrink when cool and will also bend crank and destroy bearings on that side as i was told please correct me if wrong

Very cool.

Good job...👍... makes you wonder .... but not to much when the operated didn't hand over any of his cash to buy it...dgaf

Mine just started leaking oil. Is that normal? Imma take it apart and try and fix it.

Mr. Tinman, my nephew has an older Stihl 048 AV Electronic saw. 1 day it quit running on him so he brought it over to me to fix. I did some mucking about and came to the determination that the coil was bad, I got to asking around to my local saw shops for a coil. they weren't much help. so off to E-Bay for a few questions and got a newer style coil. I also pulled the flywheel and checked to make sure that everything was clean and that's when I discovered the electronic ignition module under the flywheel. I do not know how to test that to see if its good or not. I did an OHM test on both the new and old coil and got the same results. Can you perhaps shed some light on my issue. Thanks for your time

can u hone these cyl's are they cast alum...

Hey so not sure if you will see this? Seeing it’s an older video I don’t no anyway tinman man I just snagged another 461 and I am gonna follow these ones you posted . So yeah here’s to not blowing it up!!!

Damn that saw looks almost new

So if you don't normally buy saws at auction, why did you buy this one?

Tightening the chian while hot and then storing it.

That’s a $1200.00 usd saw. What kinda nitwit does that to a piece of equipment? Probably the same kinda guy that whips a rented mule until it collapsed. Great buy for you!

You should NOT be Leaning into a saw unless you're Dropping, or maybe at a tricky angle.........I've seen some Older muscle saws that just have terrible aerodynamics with grip and handling, and so you gotta Push or Pull hard....but other than that, a saw should Always pull on its own to a degree!

I tried doing failure analysis in a nutshell. Too cramped for me.

When you figure of the cost of the chain saw into the hourly wages, things get real expensive. Mechanical training needs to be more than a 30min. lesson ‼️

Not familer with athils saws..mechanicly

Clutch was missing a spring

Sad that a nice saw got ruined just because someone was to lazy to take the time to do proper maintenance !

Too tight too much stress!

My names ben..have to use other channel..been attacked by hackers..exctra

Probley ran ultra

government employees being lazy on a job and not taking care of something? I never heard of such a thing

powerfister 0:16

sub

That looks like a newer saw ... I'm commenting at very beginning... shouldn't be having failure already...??? Ha ha I should've waited... government equipment gets abused