Take the 7 Day Riff-To-Song Challenge: bit.ly/7DAYRIFFTOSONG

"they were all FINISHED and PUT OUT" Never have I felt more personally attacked.

I'm confused. After I play "the riff" and its variations 20 times in each section, my song is now 17 minutes long. Is that what we are going for?

Loving this shift in focus from gear to songwriting. Let's be honest here, modern metal guitar players don't need yet another demo of some overdrive boost or some modeling amp or sim. They need songwriting help. You can only do so much chugging on tight amps and writing ADD riffs. I feel like the song competition really exposed a huge problem with modern metal players. We've become nerds that only try to impress other nerds with our playing, tone, or production. But no one outside that bubble cares for any of that. Not saying to make top 40s pop music but definitely bring back proper songs, choruses, anthems, *tasteful* playing that workings in context with a song, etc.

I feel like this video is directed at me. I have 11 partials, Furthermore, I want all these songs to be bangers! I have never written a song in my life, and never tried until I started watching this channel.

The back half of the song is where I usually get stuck. I finish that 2nd chorus and think "Ok, what now? Bridge? Interlude? Solo? Breakdown?" and then "What order of the selected options would be most effective?"

Thank you so much! I'm very excited to start this challenge just signed up and I am still debating on buying your full course but times are tight! Thanks for this challenge again, super cool ,and much appreciated . I'm very grateful 🙏

I love and am going to love to see the improvements on stuff people showcase on your channel! Killer video Trey! 🤘🤘

Was just suggested your channel for songwriting by KZfaq. Really good stuff and inspiration. Enjoy you video style and humor as well. Subscribed! Thanks for sharing!

Loving the recent content. I've written some half songs and obscure compositions where I was just messing around, also have a whole bag of riffs. I recently got the songwriting course too and I love the mindset and approach you have to creativity.

I've honestly been putting some of these things into practice as I've been writing my next album. Getting more mileage out of reimagining the same riffs is something I've been working on a lot with some of this new material I've been picking away at. Thanks for all the great tips, Trey. :)

I really appreciate your kind and friendly approach!

This is excellent advice. Maybe you already made a lyrics video and I haven't seen it... if not, let me add some thoughts on that. 1. Don't try to write the Sermon on the Mount. You're not saving the world with these words, you're just breaking down one basic little thought in your head. Pretentious lyrics sound... pretentious. 2. Explore your thought well, and sincerely, but also try to make it open to interpretation. People want to apply these words to themselves. If they can't, why would they listen? Also, cryptic lyrics can be cool, but don't make them hieroglyphic... don't go nuts with the metaphors. 3. Work out the rhythm of the SYLLABLES first, and limit yourself to as few as you need to carry the melody. Once you have the syllables blocked out, and the thought clearly in mind, words fall into place pretty easily. You can shoe-horn in extra syllables, or run longer than expected sometimes-that can be a cool effect, but don't overdo it. Again, great video. Finished is MUCH better than perfect.

Great vid man, production quality (visual & audio and everything) is f'in great right now. Super concise, thanks for sharing the knowledge of how to riff-to-song to the masses

This is great thanks bro! I’m in.

I so needed to hear this .. Thanks.

This is awesome, dude. Five freaking stars.

Sweet, I just signed up for the challenge. Thanks.

Good content here Thanks

Hey bro, I just watched your video today because I needed some ideas on how to turn this riff I had into a song. Well, after taking some notes in my notebook and applying my own version of a “strong structure” I now have a 3:30 minute song written out in less than thirty minutes. THANK YOU!

I would have used a different visual for "hump", but that's just me !!

Thank you Trey

Omg I needed to hear this! Afternoon of perfecting riffs yet nothing really productive.

Oh man I needed to hear this 😬

Definitely a classic structure! I dare say ALL my first many original songs back in the 80's had it....and some without a solo. *gasp*

This is fucking cool!

I’ve been saying this to myself lately & ironically enough I find this video. Thanks papa trey!

Knaw-ledge I much appreciate the knaw-ledge. Thank you 🤘🤘🤘

A video I needed at the right time, I'm trying to force myself to finish 4 songs for my first EP at the moment - not exactly metal, opting for a more 90's alternative to keep it simple for me. Hardest parts will be lyrics and vocals though.

It would be great if you could make a version of this for more complex progressive song structures that go well beyond pop structures!

So cool

This may have taken inspiration from many of the song contest entries :D

I swear I watch this video every day to get the idiocy of my pride out of the way that I think I’m going to be the next Misha Mansoor tomorrow morning

I didn't want to hear this but I definitely needed it.

Hi man. I really like your channel about writing songs. What about writing more extreme metal genres like Thrash/Death Metal ? It is usually based on riffs. Anyway from your post I got that less is more !

This was THE most informative and funny "how to" guide ever. From someone who has gigs worth of garbage riffs and ideas, now I have a template!!! 🤣EXCELLENT!!!

All my tunes come out a week in the back of the fridge haggis, but I keep eatin it cause it’s that or more riff salad and stale noodles.

Let's see if I can put my ideas together and write a complete song before it's too late ! That was a simple explanation , foolproof ! 👍

I have been using a similar approach for years now, and written countless songs. Slight difference being that the standard structure I usually go for is intro (sometimes skip), verse 1, chorus, verse 2, chorus, bridge (often a two part), verse 3, chorus 2x. And since it's metal pretty much all of those parts are riffs (but usually ones that suggest a chord progression), breaks between the a verse and chorus will simply be the verse or chorus riff without vox. However, I make them all on the fly when I am writing the song, and often they tend to be variations. I like the three verse structure. Lyrically one can set the scene in the first verse, say something about what's happening in the second, then come to some kind of conclusion in the first. I moved into this style of songwriting from the more typical "riff salad" structure of a lot of extreme metal pretty much when I stopped working with live drummers in the classic get together in the rehearsal room type deal. Once it was a more production approach, it just becomes more natural to go for more solid and typical structures. Haven't really hoarded riffs for years, except on *very* rare occasions where a particularly interesting one pops out. However, when I was younger though I did that a lot and have a fair few cassettes stacked full of 'em. I reckon it would be very fun to use your exact structure suggested here and pull one of those old riffs out and build a song around that. :)

Dangit, you're temping to me actually do somethin and get it done!

been listening to a lot of the band Turnstile lately, and I think they write some damn good songs, and when I listen, it all makes sense.... there isnt any crazy music theory behind them that I dont understand, or ridiculous chop but I still cant do what they do...

Dang this makes me want to learn guitar! 🙃

you got me with the "crappy riff idea" into "smash mouts masterpiece" that sir was comedic genius AND truth...

Love the tough love lol

What kind of camera/lens/lighting setup are you using nowadays? I've been watching your channel for 3 or 4 years now and your video quality has always been pretty solid, but over the last year or so it seems like it has gone up to a whole 'nother level. This video especially looks super clean and the background LEDs look fantastic without being distracting. Keep it up!

I would love to see a song structure break down of Rainbow in the Dark

Making entire songs from riffs. That has been done literally quite a few times. To I think still popular examples are Lady Hawk taking a riff from Can't Stop and making Delirium, also Crazy Town taking, I think it was the second riff from Pretty Little Ditty and making Butterfly.

Trey's persona is basically your friends older brother who is really good and is begrudgingly giving you a guitar lesson

I have riffs written in different variations and of course that one variation fits in the song better then the others.

Great video not ground breaking stuff but simplicity is the best really dig your chanel thanks for bitchen content

One thing I've found really helpful for trying to finish songs is to take what I call the "Iron Maiden approach", although it's really just NWOBHM in general. And that's to make your riff the intro/outro, then switch to regular chords and/or power chords for the verse/chorus. Think of the song "Wasted Years". Great song, right? Well the intro and bridge are the riff, the verse is just the Maiden standard A string power chords, and the chorus is actually strumming full open chords. If Iron Maiden can make that work, then why can't us normal people do the same

People keep saying they don’t know how to write a song but they haven’t just. MADE A SONG

A good example of this subject for people to check out is Slipknot Surfacing…it’s essentially the same riff throughout but they do variations & change up the drum patterns.

Speaking of Riff Salad, Check out that song by Sloth from San Antonio, it’s pretty good as well lol 🤘

I have written songs using a slightly different version of this formula and it has worked out great whenever I played live. I thought back to some of my favorite songs from Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb to Metallica's Master of Puppets. I used the classic song structure for a lot of my stuff, consisting of Intro(chorus or altered verse if used), Verse (where I like to start most off my songs), Chorus 1, Verse (either identical to the first or slightly different), Chorus 2 (identical or mostly identical to the first with the exception of one new layer), Solo/Bridge (depends on the song for this because NOT EVERY SONG NEEDS A SOLO!!!), Chorus, Outro (very identical to the intro if needed). I always knew this as the Grunge Songwriting Structure.

Hey Trey. Excellent vid. I was wondering if you could do a sequel to this? Steps to getting your music copywritten, ASCAP, distribution and how to legally cover your body of work.

Ok. I'm in.

This may be the greatest song writing video ever created! So damn entertaining from start to finish. Really well made video

Reminds me of the old wisdom from music school decades ago: "how do you write a great song? Write 50 mediocre ones first."

The template is every blink song ever.

Bottom line is; you have to know the rules, before you break them.

Also surprised this isn't a competition with a sweet gear prize.

I agree with the most of your thoughts. One Riff = One Song is very important, because you should keep in mind that you will write many many songs during your life and you should learn to make the best out of your ideas. But the most important step imho is to finish the song, play/listen to it multiple times, add drums and vocals to it and sometimes it sounds so different for what you aimed for at the beginning. And even if its not, take your time to find out why your song is missing something. Usually some simple changes can do the trick. Oh and if the super amazing starting riff disappears during the songwriting process, it obviously wasnt that great though.

I have hundreds of half-baked song ideas recorded, and it got so overwhelming trying to believe I would ever turn them into actual songs that I stopped recording and just play for myself. Challenge accepted, Trey.

How about a video on coming up with your own riffs?

Man, sometimes the universe just guides you to something you need. The previous video I watched in conjunction with this one. Time to get unstuck and write some mediocre completed songs. It reminds me of advice I've gotten about writing fiction, just get the 1st draft done! That's the hardest part, then rewrite it until it's good.

Hey Trey - what if you provided some templates to composition apps like Guitar Pro and whatnot, and maybe a few DAWs like PT? Basically, where all of the usual suspects for a rock/metal/pop band may go, and a bunch of markers/sections (eg: "chorus here")

Dude, for the first (maybe second?) time in 17 years of studying guitar I finally put together a guitar track! It sucks and it's in a weird exotic tonality, but it's finished! Can't wait to add the other instruments. Cheers!

If making a song out if bunch of riffs is your thing, do it. Once you finish it then it's over with. You have done it rather than thinking of all the possible ways you could execute it. You can move on learning from each songs that you create. Music is and should be an impulsive art. There is no right or wrong. Each finished art is always the last compromise an artist has made. But the road is ahead for new adventures. Rock on

To sum that up: have a Story, write down the emotions in each Part your trying to express. Write riffs to that and the most importain thing, with using completly diffrent riffs is, to makethe transistions right. Thats simply it.

You’ve got some great points. There’s a song structure that’s worked and when peoples go away from it they don’t usually fair well

00:45 gojira_type_riff_three hahahaha i can SOO relate :D

A perfect example of having a riff but not knowing what to do with it is , Pneuma by Tool. Adam Jones had that main riff for over 20 yrs and the band could never write anything with it. Finally they do, and win a Grammy

The lyric part may well be the most difficult for most people...

Everyone can write riffs and buy awesome gear. Songwriting is being lost as an artform to some degree, time to bring it back

Thanxs papa trey trey

I get the concept of riff salad, but damm I love riff salad. I guess I won't be going anywhere hahaha

I cant take a good rift and play it 5 different ways and then I go in circles with arrangements or get hung up trying to decide what version is the best and cant decide lol

0:44 the gojira one feels like a personal attack...

Challenge excepted. 😅

I remember this was the advice that trey gave me on Friday during my submission! I’ll pretend that this was made cause of my submission and live in lala land

For the Bridge/solo, see also Breakdown!!!!

Just one riff. Like Close to the Edge by Yes.

Finishing. That's my weakest spot. I do have a lot of songs on Soundcloud that are finished though. I'm really needing to simpifiy my songs and not try to make epics. Putting a time limit on them might be a good idea!

Form a band that plays to people!

My tip. When you first wake up in the morning, pick up a crappy acoustic guitar, and do not think. Just play for 5 minutes. Stop. Chances are “something”- maybe just an interesting chord change- will be left on your plate. Later on you can play around with it. Have fun with it. Try this or try paying the Xavier fund to get you goin.’

I love trey

I have to disagree with a thing or two, but overall great video! I encourage everyone to explore new ideas in a songs structure and melody as long as they share common ground. The real question would be do you want to be another mediocre rock band or do you want to stand out from the norm? if you want to achieve the former, sure stick to a set framework and just assume you'll suddenly be interesting and fresh when a million bands already did the same before and after you. There's only really one way to be interesting and fresh and that's by thinking outside of the box. Think Bohemian Rhapsody. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take influence from other sources, but the idea is to bring something new to a table full of tools. BUT, the biggest rule should always be to HAVE FUN!

This whole video summed up is, okay here's how you write a song. Write a song. There you've written a song....

👍

Lol Channeling Jimmy Dugan there 0:53

So I've been loving all these songwriting vids and I'm really interested in the course - but for the price that it is I need to be sure it's for me before I'm willing to buy (soz Trey but I've got a house and dog to pay for and life is only getting more expensive). Would be great to get feedback from people who've bought the course about what it's like and how good it is. Don't really want to drop $400+ to find out it's not for me.

what if the riff I started riff is a chorus type riff? what would be the best way to convert it to a verse riff?

I take tears for fears and add distortion hahahahahaha

3:36 lol

You're pulling off a "Shia LaBeouf" JUST DO IT!

I feel attacked XD

If we buy your course to we have access forever and will there be updates to the course free of charge etc…?

This is exactly what many - dare I say most? - guitar players need!

*Reads title*, Jesus Christ I'm a riff hoarder. I've got like 39 partial songs on my hard drive.