For a second I thought this was a 2 year old repost, but then I remembered this is the FGC we're talking about and it all made sense

i remember before rollback hit BBCF *everyone* was crying about how our friends wouldn't play the game with us because it didn't have rollback and all that, we *wanted* people to play with us so bad and when rollback finally hit we basically had a party. crazy that it's not just the standard tbh

The bar is on the ground and yet people are so damn eager to pull out their damn shovels. As a PC player I have been wanting not only Rollback but Crossplay for a while but man that feels like asking for something impossible with the current climate. People are whack, just want good games.

"You just want rollback because it's cool to want rollback" No, I live in very rural Canada. In delay-based games I would constantly face laggy matches and have people complain to me that my internet is garbage or to get off wi-fi. I have a fast fibre connection and I use ethernet, but I just happen to live in a place that is far from most people. With Strive, Melee and Type Lumina I've actually been able to play online matches with very few issues. From this point on rollback is simply a feature I want so I can avoid dealing with complainers in delay-based games. If you live in a populated place with lots of players, sure go have fun, but rollback is pretty much a necessity for lots of us.

Man I just don't get why people bitch about cars with sticky gearshifts. Like its not that big of a deal, you can adjust to it. We called it "delay based driving" and that was how cars were driven. Back in my day we just had to deal with it and that was that, if you got in an accident and died, well RIP bozo you know? All this talk about making it a "standard to have an efficient and well-lubricated gearshift system" is just total zoomer nonsense.

Oh shit it's the run back. Hope Sajam is ready for round 3 of this matchup in 2024.

It's still wild that I could still see a fg get announced and my reaction is "sick is this playable online" when the technology is old at this point

The other excuse that's annoying is people think the ability to make good game design excuses other faults. "Glorious Japanese devs make the best fighters. They shouldn't need to waste time making good complete packages. Leave that to shit western developers and their shit fighting games" Come on now.

REAL. I'm SO fucking tired of people pretending an ENTIRE mode of play NOT WORKING is at ALL acceptable.

"Bro, how entitled can you be? You think the movie should have an ending? Real fans don't need or even want closure. Why don't you just make your own movie with a 'complete story arc' if it's so important to you?"

dude i really couldn't care less about not having a ping indicator in strive when the lobbies are as dysfunctional as they are going into a strive lobby feels like going into a run down public bathroom where you have to check every stall only to find most of them are unusable

Why are people against the idea of making their FAVOURITE fighting game playable online? Literally baffling 😑

for my 2 cents as a super casual player, netcode doesn't automatically make a game a buy/no buy for me, as I pay attention to everything else the game offers. but if we've already had netcode figured out for this long, and THIS many people are demanding it, it's still pretty inexcusable not to have rollback. like you're just being stubborn at that point lmao

I have mentioned a few times that I wished that Arc’s games just had a quick match queuing system and I can’t tell you how many times people in the FGC have told me that having a quick match queuing system wouldn’t work in a fighting game….I’m like, you know that some fighting games already do this successfully right? I just want to select play and be matched with someone.

The combo folder for training mode is something I wish was in fighting games for AGES now. Glad someone else said it lmao.

You said it all. I can understand why someone would get upset when a person says there is "literally no reason" to buy a game without rollback. Sometimes you just like the game and that's good enough reason, but getting up in arms and defending bad decisions, laziness, and willful ignorance by a developer is pretty stupid.

oh, a colourblind mode for strive would be so good. some stages just make characters look like a blur

Tekkens punishment training was so interesting I almost forgot they charged us for frame data

I am once again asking you for basic functionality.

This stuff always bugs me, especially because when new smaller indie titles HAVE these things, people dont play them because they arent their standard favorites.

3:15 Aside from unplayable netcode basically being the industry standard, this is the easily the biggest issue limiting growth in the FGC, hands down. FG development is literally over a decade behind other genres.

TFH, Skullgirls, and Power Rangers will always be some of the golden standards for fighting games IMO. Good netcode, great lobbies, good training mode. TFH even went a step further and gave us online PvP training mode bro like what else can you ask for. If every fighting game took a few notes from these, the FGC would honestly be spoiled with great games.

People are worried if you call out problems with a game, no one will play it and the community will die. When realistically most of the people calling stuff out are saying out of concern for the game and community and want the game to be a better overall package for longevity.

One feature Id love to see in training mode that I've only seen in the 20XX mod pack for melee is the character status color. More than just frame advantage colors. I'm currently learning Johnny in +R and getting the timing down for some of his air combos are difficult but I can manage it. It would be cool to set things like the "Wait : Green" feature in 20xx where your character is highlighted green when you're no longer in end lag "recovery", I also love IASA colors (Interrupt as soon as) showing off cancel windows. Not a requirement by any means but a cool feature that I thought would be cool.

Hey, i hear that they "consider" to add rollback in to the game So how about we also "consider" to buy the game if it have rollback? Let them taste their own medicine xD

I remember that tweet, I left a supportive response and forgot about it until it blew up with so many salty pissy responses, was absolutely hilarious how in denial people were about needing rollback

When I was getting in to fighting games my fave for ages was +R just because it had so much single player stuff we need more of that to

Cheers to the PLAY button. Please. I don't see why Fighting games don't want to have this.

Lmao the original video is what brought me here to begin with. If P4U doesn't have rollback I'll still be happy that it isn't trapped on those old systems, but I struggle to see the point in doing this port at all if it doesn't have it especially with how many old arcsys games have been getting it. It has been disappointing to see how slow this genre has been to improve on qol features since it is taking/has taken so long for many devs to even think adding these essential features is necessary. Never mind actually improving upon them in any way.

When I started up Ranked in Strive it set me on Floor 2 with no one else there, I ended up having to play on floor 4 and losing so much it booted me to floor 1, and that was apparently a good day. Everytime I play I bounce between US W, US E, and JP until I find a playable match. I can't imagine trying to find a match in a game without Rollback, and I'm glad I never have to.

Ah yes, the Beaten Wife syndrome of gaming. Where you got so little in the past that you are happy for scraps when a feast is there for the taking if you stop settling. But no... asking for the bare minimum or what has been done before is traitorous heresy.

What goes through these companies' execs heads? "Maybe the demand for rollback will go away?" Yeah it will...when people stop playing fighting games. Is this the idea? Smother the fighting game genre to death instead of include a feature that even amateurs code into their diy free fighting games?

I wish it would be normal so see more advanced features in fighting games. Its frustrating when I see older games with great features, but the newer games didnt adopt them. It seems like developers are content with delivering a basic package, but I think some of those features could really expand and retain the player base. (i.e. GG+R replay feature.)

I live in a middle of nowhere, in a country, where fighting games are not that popular (besides MK) Not having rollback netcode is a number one reason for me to skip the game. Trying to play a delay based anime fg is basically pointless. BBTAG was so fun for me, but there is nobody to play with. And if there is one poor soul I can connect to, then the connection quality is just horrible. No rollback - no buy

I love TFH's lobby, and the adaptive music and the well animated polish. I just wish it wasn't so combo heavy ;u;

When this popped up in my recommended I honestly thought it was just the algorithm recommending the old video, and I thought why not, I’ll throw it up in the background while I work. Glad to see that the FGC never changes.

Ye shes right. It's completely ridiculous to release a game without decent netcode these days. Especially since we're still kinda in the midst of the varus. I mean if you buy a fighting game, dont you want to be able to play it with other people?

It's amazing for me that TFH, the my little pony fighting game has some of the best online and QoL features beating out many AAA games on those terms.

That zoom in on the word recommend was great People seem to not know that word, appreciate the exposure

Just started playing MK11 after not playing the series since twas a kid and was amazed the frame data is just available in the move lists. It really helped me explain to my friend the basics of frame data

such a shame that 3 years later we are STILL having this conversation...

We're so close to rollback and frame data being ubiquitous in every fighting game. Very close. No idea why Strive would omit frame data when FighterZ had it. BUT...the next frontier I'm trying to get people riled up about is making hitboxes and hurtboxes visible in training mode. It's SO helpful when you're learning a character and want to be able to tell what's a disjoint. Then you've got stuff like Street Fighter V having some obscure hidden juggle counter that the game never tells you about that dictates what move will combo into what move; why not just surface that information?

I liked that edit where you zoom in on the word recommended as he highlights it, good job Moste

Always great to hear praise for TFH! Great game I hope more people jump into

The interactive replay system in +R is quickly becoming one of my top desired features. Makes problem solving so accessible and simple.

I started playing blazblue, but no instant rematch and having to pick characters and go through 2 loading screens every single time really hurt the experience. I understand it's an old game but I'm so sick and tired of this shit lol

Wasn't Strive supposed to have a "Combo Maker" feature like TFH where you can post combo routes and stuff like combo trials for other people? I feel like it was in a dev backyard at some point.

she's right, no reason to buy it if it doesn't have roll back

It's been 3 years since that video?! Oh my lord... and not much has changed.

i almost feel like when making a fighting game, devs only focus on the gameplay and when they've finished that they dust their hands off for a job well done and ship the game

But Sajam, having frame data as an option will scare new players. I see this one a lot. No, if they are scared by frame data, they would be scared by the current options anyways.

I seriously can't believe that it's 2022 and fighting game players are still having to fight devs for a complete online package. It feels like the devs are stuck in the mid to late 2000s/early 2010s when it comes to delivering an online experience. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to have features that have been around for almost a decade.

I won't link it but I made a reddit thread about this whole thing and a bunch of people got mad at me for telling them not to buy P4AU because it won't have rollback. I can't believe people are still bending over backwards to defend this stuff.

Rollback netcode is such a blessing, ever since bbcf got rollback I start looking for other fighting game that has rollback and joining discord for games that has low playerbase

I don't understand the "I like playing arcade mode, stop asking for rollback" mindset, like okay, you got what you wanted, lemme get what I want, this doesn't affect you it sounds like

i hope this is the year that you can finally stop talking about this. i really like the new analogies you used. gonna use the burger one for sure in my next discussion about this topic.

A feature i personally like a lot is an in game chat that you can use DURING a match. It's in fightcade and i haven't seen it anywhere else

The ending is pure gold :D

One thing that could be good for more games would be optional bland backgrounds, like SFV or Skullgirls' training arenas. I feel like those can help with things blending in to he background

Another example of a fighting game function I need is training mode! You know who you are

Talk to em Sajam

Lemme justify for Daemon Bride. No ports since examu literally died and there's being a revival with a new version in 2022 called EX again, but only for that new cab that's releasing. Boom, valid excuse

man this really is a time loop

I always want interesting single player modes, which I accept isn't really the target demo, but coming from a lot of MMO and ARPG games; there are nights where I just want to chill and grind. BBCF's Grim of Abyss? Amazing. Xrd's little level up and equip gear and items and stuff? So fun. I never expect it, but I always hope for it.

We're at the point where we have so low standards that TFH (the game I play currently), which still lacks some basic features like ranked play, is the highest standard for fighting game with normal features... Wow

Excusing devs for still not implementing quality features that should be basic is bad I agree, but the issue I and some other people take with the tweet is specifically the "no reason to buy games without it". If that's a personal philosophy you want to follow then that's completely fine but don't tell other people what kind of reasons they need for buying games, yes it was a recommendation in the first part of the tweet but then the second sentence comes off completely different. P4G sold really well on Steam and there's probably gonna be a decent amount of people that are gonna want to buy P4U just for the story mode continuation and will probably hardly even touch online, among other examples. I'm not gonna go tell them "there's no reason to buy the game" just because it doesn't have rollback, that's none of my business. Don't get me wrong, I definitely would wish for P4U to have good netcode but there's other features that people can enjoy about the game even without rollback.

“You just want rollback because its cool to want rollback” THE ULTIMATE COPE, just call your opponent a POSER LMAO

That burger analogy at the end is spot on. If a feature is known to make a game better and some alternate isn't there, why not have it?

Coming from a mostly MOBA background, it's absolutely nuts how night and day the difference can be.

It's in game netcode is wonky but SFV's simple search for ranked and/or casual matches with ping bar options keeps me coming back for its ease of use. Set it in the menu and wait or go to training and wait easy. Strive is all over the place but as far as I remember you could set it to search in training.

Rollback is the bare minimum, next is crossplay

Common Sajam W

Preach it brother. We're really asking too much these days for simple shit? It reminds me of cancelling student debt. "No I had it rough so you should have to go through the same bullshit too". We're talking video games at the end of the day. Why is it so controversial? No competitive fighting game player should have the audacity to tell anyone that they don't notice that simple features are missing when they switch over to a different FG. Frame data, Side Switching, Resetting to Left/Right Corner the list goes on and on. It's perplexing to me that people are so adamant about not wanting to add simple shit in games that we are sinking our time into. Must be a GateKeeping OS if I've ever heard one.

Evergreen video

Every game should have a training mode as good as KI's.

The thing that blows me is when games are missing these online features AND the single player modes are nearly nonexistent....

3:20 that is how it works in Mortal Kombat. I wonder why people in the fgc ignore MK so much. Id love to play Samsho, if only i would get to play matches.

I do not understand people defending companies making substandard products. It would be nice if we had good lobbies for those who like lobby systems but I would also really like if we could put more emphasis on good ranked systems and automatic match making for those who want to press "play" and get matched with some one at approximately their skill level, preferably with a wifi filter.

A lot of gamers have weird mindsets in general, especially when it comes to being defensive against a bare minimum feature. Do they even realise how stupid they would sound if we applied that mindset to other products and services that we support in our lives?

Tribalism is a helluva drug.

I remember that video. Good video

Hey man you started the revolution no you dont want us to fight for the dream

I think they should change the frame data according to the delays if they go delay base to eliminate “online tech”. Eg if a command grab is 15frames, in offline I will have 15frames to react. But if I’m on a 4frames delay online I will only have 11 frames to react. Because the delays are across the board. It makes a lot of reactable encounters into a read only situation.

My biggest takeaway from this video is that Sajam is subbed to Akito Bass. Love that (Also UNI rollback pls)

melty blood type lumina had a pretty rocky launch (for a lot of people) and has not the best lobby system. but i'm willing to deal with a game that (after the 1/13 patch) will only be missing out on parallel battle lobbies because the gameplay is great.

rollback has been in use for over a decade now, it's just disappointing that it's not in every fighting game now.

As a persona fan the single player content in p4u is great if you wanna play story mode, arcade etc. But if you wanna play online wait for an official confirmation for ggpo. In my case i already have it on ps3 and if it receives an ggpo update i will buy it on ps5 and pc

Nothing would be greater for a fighter than the world-record speedrun online system that is +R of just opening up the game, going online and into a match in around 9-10 seconds (I'm really not kidding), lowkey hope that Persona 4 Arena and many other fighters not only adds rollback as it should, but also find a way to have +R's online/lobby system that just super intuitive and quick to the point and have little decors and spice here and there, and not fricking Strive's lobby system which is the epitome of "Fashion over Function". Like IMO, the pixel avatars are unneeded, the pixel monitors along with the distance/adventure to them (for both you and your requested opponent, especially jumping up and down the rows) are also unneeded especially in friend lobbies, where you're str8 up playing your friend anyways or have a 3rd player there as well, so what's the point in the avatars and monitors in that specific aspect when you can just hook up a steam invite and go into a +R-esque lobby or character select screen against the other player and have a quick spectator mode, and if you wanna socialize with players it can be through steam's or playstation's messaging. Like Strive added too much fluff and no clear form or any form into just having someone play another person of their choosing in the world (outside of quick match where you're randomly pitted against someone), and many people don't want fluff and just wanna play and press buttons at another guy.

10/10 outro

I never realized how heavily I relied on frame data apps until I played strive lol. The data needs to be in the game lol. Instant replay would be cool and replay take over to practice against situations you didn’t have an answer for. Simple lobbies are wanted a lot from me also. I hate strive lobbies.

“It’s cool to ask for rollback” yeah sajam famously rewarded by gatekeepers for asking for better net play

Its wild that the only game that quite literally has *everything* and then some is TFH, a game locked to PC with an art style that unfortunately doesn't have mass appeal...

I know that rollback is and should be a standard for all games, and I believe so, and that stops me from playing other games with bad netcode (tekken and uniclr for example), but p4au is my favourite game, so no matter what I’m still gonna buy it

At least we got parsec for these kind of games

Its like the P2P vs dedicated servers debate all over even with these marketing fakeouts

Granblue has such a good lobby system don't know why they don't mimic that more The xrd rooms were dope to They could have just made them bigger rooms for Stevie But hey the online is dope for strive at least

Rollback antivaxxers never sleep

I think the biggest one for me is the lack of characters in games especially established franchises has been forgiven and shaken off. Like how tf did GG strive only launch with 15 characters? Especially when 3 of the DLC characters that already came out are ALREADY IN THE GAME.

It has already been stated that P4au could get rollback could be added to a later date. Implication being Atlus/Sega is far too stupid to understand what the consumer wants, and will only ever consider investing rollback into a project that's already a financial success. With that in mind, I'm honestly having trouble trusting such painfully oblivious companies to even read THAT message, especially when a financial juggernaut like fighterz has still been left in the dark. It's really hard to follow the "They're stupid so talk to them in their language" argument when the natural extension is "Why would they suddenly stop being stupid, we're already surrounded by data that correlates rollback to financial success."

Get em king