Reminder that the actor who plays Joe even publicly reminded everyone he is NOT a hero.

I remember discussing with young teen girls that if someone is in your bedroom without your knowledge or permission, the words aren't "he's so romantic," they're "restraining order. "

As someone who was stalked and harassed for two years: people will always paint the victim as selfish which is what I think they were doing with Beck. A guy asked me out, I said no, and then he proceeded to ceaselessly corner me, try to get me alone, guilt and manipulate me. The reaction ingot from people was the same: "you should have just given him a chance! This is your fault because he clearly likes you a lot and you didn't go out with him. You are just being dramatic." In a story where no should have been enough, I became the vain, self-centered and cruel villain who wouldn't even give the shy, devoted hero a chance. The more he stalked me, the more he attempted to bribe and manipulate me, the more I became a cold hearted b**** who was whining about his efforts when all I had to do was date him. People have a messed up view of romance, and anyone who has actually suffered through being stalked will understand that it isn't cute...it is hell

Did you know that the Actor for Joe even said this show is “How fast can you forgive an attractive white man” and a lot of you... are doing it lol

People who root for Joe are propably the same ones that think that Joker's and Harley's relationship is adorable.

“Joe is the bad guy that dexter is waiting for.” Lol. I choked a bit.

I disagree that Joe was wrongfully romanticized and I actually think him having a moral code is realistic story writing. I think what was wrong was that people misinterpreted his character as an anti-hero instead of seeing him as the villain he clearly was portrayed as. Let me explain... When I was going through comments of scenes from the first season, I was shocked to see how many Beck haters and team Joe people there were. Girls were even holding Joe up as a romantic ideal even after seeing the end to the season... yikes. But like you said his likable qualities weren’t because of the romantic lense like Edward’s character in Twilight, which is arguably more dangerous. BECAUSE we get to hear Joe’s twisted inner dialogue combined with his increasingly disturbing and irredeemable actions is what should tip us off to his villain-hood. The truth is, evil people can be VERY like-able, charming and charismatic. They can even have moral codes and be benevolent and kind. Every time I see a real crime story like this I always see a clip of the neighbors shaking their head in disbelief saying “what a nice guy” he was. They’d be involved in the church, a protector of the neighborhood, or just over all a well liked and respected upright citizen. These people aren’t always unshowered loners who hide behind a computer, they’re often among us as people we would see as “a nice guy”. And they can be, to certain people for whatever reason. I like that it explores the reality that someone can BOTH be a “nice guy” to one person and an evil person to another. I see “You” as a groundbreaking realistic portrayal of the kind of villain that no one seems to be aware of and can’t seem to understand because they don’t fit into a certain box. (As long as they don’t freaking redeem him in the end, please). My hope is that it brings awareness to the wolves in sheep’s clothing in our society that hopefully none of us ever have to encounter but probably do without knowing it. (Also the hate Beck’s character received made me terrified for society... SHE WAS LITERALLY THE HERO - I was rooting for her to get away the whole time, but alas the villain won) but then again, that is pretty close to reality even if it is unexpected in film.

Reminds me of a meme I saw. It had pictures of the likes of Joe, Dexter, Walter White and Joker with the text, "If you idolize any of them, you missed the point!"

Even if I invited someone into my house, I still wouldn't want them to watch me sleep. Unless I am part of a sleep study, I don't want anyone watching me sleep.

"Romance is not, in fact, dead." Congratulations. Not even two minutes in and I almost spat my tea all over my phone and laptop.

I honestly thought of Joe taking care of Paco and doing nice acts as a way to say, even the nicest people you meet can end up being crazy. It made me think of how Ted Bundy was described as very handsome and charming and he ended up being a serial killer. Maybe it was just me but I never thought of him as a good person after he does these nice things, I think it makes his character more disturbing actually.

As a stalk victim, you literally don't have to do ANYTHING (but exist) for some insane person to go after you. Sadly

Wait, where there really people who were rooting for Joe?

He's not redeemable though. They say multiple times that it's part of Joe's delusion. He does bad stuff then 'helps' someone to justify his own actions & feel like he's actually a good guy. But we see him stalking, murdering, dismembering people...etc then he thinks he did someoen a favour, meanwhile everything blows up in his face...again. Then we see the horror from the girl's perspective. The only problem is that people watching the show don't know how to pick up on the satirical jabs (apparently a lot of people don't understand satire) & even when the show outright says 'he's a monster' there are girls out there who are messaging Penn Badly saying they want Joe to kidnap them etc. It's messed up. But speaking as someone with a background in psychology, I can say they do a great job of showing the layers to Joe's delusion & psychopathy. I don't see anything redeemable with his character because it's all for show - to stroke his own ego.

Thing is, Joe is supposed to be a sort of satire of the "nice guy" trope in classic chick flicks and rom-coms. Looking back at them you'll notice that a lot of the "nice guys" are actually pretty toxic.

Bad people can do good things. I think it's interesting that kid's dad sniffed that Joe was a creep. Seeing other people in the show confirming that he's off is really important.

But Joe is not once redeemed, at least not by the narrative itself. **SPOILERS** By the end of both series we can see him be right back on the same bullshit - constructing a narrative for himself (e.g. that he "had to" do all those things or that he "didn't mean for them to happen") and most importantly: *stalking a brand new woman.* He's never going to change and that's a pretty clear message.

It’s very interesting to see how differently people perceived this show. to me all the “redeeming bits” made him seem a lot more dangerous and unlikable cause he genuinely thought he was a good man with good intentions. It also made me question our perception of “love” cause some of the things joe does for beck -if you didn’t know he was a murderer and a creep- could potentially be seen as “romantic” and “thoughtful” which i think that was the whole point of the show, to make you question your expectations of “love” and your partner and realising how some of these expectations are ridiculous behaviours adapted to our lives from films and books. Love isn’t devoting your life to a person and love definitely isn’t expecting someone to hold you everytime you fall (as beck did). S2 was a bit off tho i’m not going to lie i feel like the narrative was a lot less clear than s1 where it was quite obvious that joe wasn’t the hero of this story. But that ending made me feel a lot better since it was a VERY CLEAR message that joe doesn’t fall in love, what he thinks is love isn’t love but just an obsession. I also don’t think penn badgley wouldn’t have taken this role if he felt like it was excusing joe’s behaviour because he, LITERALLY IN EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW (i dare you to go look for any of his interviews for YOU) says that joe is a murderer, you shouldn’t like him and what he thinks is “love” isn’t actually love AT ALL. I’d advise you to listen to him talk about this cause i feel like he truly understood the message of the show.

I can’t watch You for the exact reasons you talked about. I have an ex-friend that I later discovered had a really bad obsession with me, and he would say and do really creepy things that forced me to cut him off. The thing is, he’s still friends with my friends, and while they believe me, they have a hard time believing that he’s a stalker until he starts talking about me. He has a lot of “redeemable” qualities and home trauma, but it doesn’t change the fact that his mere presence puts me on guard.

I didn't find Joe being nice to Paco as a way to make him more sympathetic. I thought it really exemplifies the way abusive people can put on totally different masks around the people they aren't abusing. Just because someone is wonderful and nice to me doesn't mean that they aren't abusive to others.

Yes, please do 50 shades (of crap).

I had a stalker at one time, it was a nightmare, the best news I ever got was that she had died.

My husband's reaction to the kids was, "crap he's making a mini version of him"

I think You is the "nice guy" trope taken for what it actually is, plus slightly darker. The guy who is supposedly sweet, but actually lingers around other conversations with others, trying to win the girl over by being her saviour, etc.

What is with stalkers/rapists suddenly being redeemed in TV shows? In the first two seasons of "Thirteen Reasons Why", Bryce is unapologetic for having ruined so many lives, but after he's killed, the show suddenly shows him trying redeem himself, only to be rejected at almost every turn. And Joe only becomes sympathetic once his tragic past is revealed, and Love admits that she's just as axe crazy as he is.

"Joe is the bad guy that Dexter's waiting for." Oh Lord I didn't know I wanted this crossover.

I interpreted the show’s choice to attach Joe to children as an extension of his psychopathy. On a certain level there’s the idea that these kids represent an opportunity for him to protect his younger self from whatever harmed him as a child and made him what he is, on another level the pattern of behavior represents a sort of orderliness, and on a further level he’s romanticizing not only the image of his romantic target to himself, but romanticizing his own internal self image. Joe invest attachment in these kids because if someone like Beck is the female lead of the romance novel, then he thinks he is the male lead and has to do chivalrous things like protecting children. He does get personally invested selflessly across the depiction, but his initial sentiments are more selfish and about him. So the overall depiction ends up being that he tries to help for superficially good reasons, but his motivation in helping is born of the same obsessive tendencies as in the rest of his character and this is why it backfires toxically. He’s trying to do the right things and that momentarily makes him someone the audience sides with, but his motives lead to poor choices and remind the audience that even when he’s sort of good, it is for the wrong reasons.

"Joe is the guy Dexter is waiting for." Okay, if any Netflix writers see this, the ending should be that Dexter kills Joe. If you can't get the rights to the character, have it be a character played my Michael C. Hall who's strongly implied to be Dexter.

I never go the feeling that some of Joe's actions (at least in the first season) were meant to redeem him, but to add depth to his character. We're following the villain of the series, but giving him some semblance of a moral code (that he was protective of some kid) made it seem that, in universe, people could perceive him as a good person, and so it seemed more plausible that his worse behavior could go undetected. In the end though, even in the context of him seeming like a good person, he still used a lot of violence to solve his problems. In the second season, though, there was a much lower amount of creepiness to "heroism," which did come across like it was meant to be redeeming.

He really never actually redeems himself *spoiler At the end of season 2 after he’s starting to seem like he’s getting better he goes and starts the whole process again, so in no way is he supposed to be seen as the good guy. The character is written well to the point where he can seem likeable even though you know what he’s done and some people even believe he is the good guy but that’s realistic! The same people who see him as the good guy are the same people that wanted to get with ted bundy during and after the trials.

A girl I knew a while ago was stalked, when she told my group and showed us a picture one of the other girls said, "Oh but he's kind of cute tho". I kind of feel she would be one the people saying how much the love the character.

Pattinson will now be playing a character that dresses up as a bat, lurks in the shadows, spies on people, and then kicks their asses. I know Batman is a vigilante but that's not doing much to portray the antithesis of a psycho stalker. Lol

PL-EASE do a video ripping 50 shades a new one.

This reminds me of the Zac efron when he played Ted Bundy and everyone was more focused on how cute he was regardless of him killing people

There are no slip ups that make him likable. Rise moments where he’s “likable” are a testament to how well the show is portraying the characters. Those moments you’re describing are the moments where you as a viewer are relating to his perspective and behavior.

I like to think the entire internet is a Joe.

I feel like whenever Joe disliked another character in the show, there was some justification for it. At least a little bit. The writing validated him. And that’s BAD. Stalkers in the real world often dislike people for irrational or selfish reasons and we should’ve seen Joe do that more

I actually really liked the addition of the kid in the first season. I thought it captured the idea of these kind of obsessive people being "saviours". They often rescue their "love interest" or other people because they believe that they have to. It's pretty classic abuser behaviour. Now I can see an argument about how it doesn't fit with Joe's specific mental issues, but I'd like to see more of it highlighted in media coz its really bad and helps abusers ensnare their victims. There was a bit in 50 shades where Christian rescues Ana from Jose and Jack. It is frequently romanticized. So I don't think it made Joe more sympathetic. But I'm happy to hear other people's perspectives on why they do.

“Romance is in fact, not dead” that made me chuckle

Crazy ex girlfriend has the best take on the rom com stalker tropes, redeeming Rebecca and explaining her behavior but not excusing it, can't recommend it enough

When the trailer for You season 1 came out I remember that like me a lot of Gossip Girl fans were applauding. **SPOILER ALERT FOR GOSSIP GIRL** So basically in gossip girl which also stars Penn Badgley he is this lower class nobody who becomes so infatuated with the upper class it girl Serena so much so he creates a website gossip girl that basically follows her life and reports on it (the site posts about other people but the first post and most of the post were about her and her friends). A year or so later he has a run in with her which gives him an excuse to write himself into her life (he starts posting about himself in the third person). In the finale when it is revealed that he is gossip girl they are mad but she eventually forgives him and marries him. Penn's character being g.g. wasnt the original plan but still allowing him to marry his love interest who he stalked, harrassed, and manipulated for years was so irresponsible. So anyways a lot of Gossip Girl fans saw You as an appropriate reaction to finding out your boyfriend has been stalking you.

I was so shocked to find out people don’t watch YOU the same way we watch docs about serial killers cause...you know...it’s a fictionalised doc about a stalker/serial killer...

My name is Yoshikage Kira. I'm 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the Kame Yu department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn't lose to anyone.

Joe is the bad guy Dexter is waiting for. I love this quote so much. Thank you. -Sage

I think the reason why they show Joe caring for those kids and being a nice person is to show a realistic look into a stalker. These people actually look like normal people in real life. They're not awful all the time, sometimes they're even charming and that's why it's hard to know when someone is so dangerous. Because from the outside they just look like a normal person. I think that's why it was important for Joe to have a moral code. It's more realistic

Personally I thought giving him some "redeeming" qualities worked well with the intent of the show because it shows you that dangerous people can be people you see doing good things, being nice and helpful etc so basically the show is telling you to be careful and to not think that you can spot dangerous and obsessive people that easily. Also I just think it's more realistic because I don't think anyone just does horrible things in all aspects of their life, you can be a terrible person but also have "soft spots" or morals reguarding certain situations, that doesn't mean they're not bad people but they're complex.

I remember with watching season one, Beck was the character that infuriated me not only because of her poor decisions but with the fact that I found her so relatable to my own life and relationship struggles. That was where I found the true horror of YOU was in how easily I as the viewer was duped into Joe’s messed up thinking and realizing how even though I consider myself to be intelligent and a good judge of character, I probably would be no better off than Beck was if in her position. EEK!!!

I kinda saw the “moral code bits” as making him worse because joe believes he is a good person and he is doing good and isn’t crazy

Gf - "I heard about a new show we should watch. He's basically a serial killer that you end up rooting for." Me - "Ohh, so like Dexter? Shit yeah I'm down!" 2 seasons later Me -"WTF DID I JUST WATCH?!?!"

There's no way Joe can redeem himself, tbh, I didn't see it in the show. Did people think that?

I didn’t know this was an adaptation. When you said that the whole Paco plot was added in the series, everything made so much sense suddenly. Somehow, it felt really disconnected from the rest of his character.

i thought season two was brilliant, tricking the viewer into rooting for joe, (i remember sitting there and thinking "come on man, you can do it, no creepy stuff now and you'll get the girl!!!!") then giving it a really satisfying ending before completely ruining it and breaking the viewer's bubble, reminding them in the most perfect way how awful of a person joe actually is.

Now this is a book/show I want to read/see a gender bent version of! How would it make us feel to hear the twisted inner monologue of the self-proclaimed hero but in actuality creepy, stalker girl? And how would the characters differ?

As a Dexter super fan, I thank you for that statement. Dexter would've caught Joe after Peaches' murder and Beck would still be alive.

“It would be terrifying if you knew that someone was watching you sleep who you had not let into your house” I would be terrified if even my best friend was doing this.

What happened to the whole "they dont have to be likeable, they just have to be interesting" thing

This honestly reminds me of Killing Stalking. Its a really crazy Manhwa if anyone is interested in reading. Warning though, it's VERY messed up.

"Joe is the bad guy that Dexter is waiting for." = why my abuse survivor ass will not watch "You". Thank you for this analogy, it's * chef's kiss *.

i love that these videos always come back to twilight. it's like there's a twilight conspiracy in romantic drama hollywood

Love you, I preferred the 1st session but looking forward to the 3rd if they make one. Love your vids

*Watching this before I go to bed. What better thing to do with my night!! ^-^*

I feel like Amanda gives off those cool, chill, accepting aunt vibes, so I feel like the BAE mug that she shows us in the beginning kinda makes sense......love you Amanda. You help me laugh through my depression!

3:23 even if I DO let you into my house, just standing there and watching me sleep is creepy af and I wouldn’t be letting you into my house anymore if/when I find out

"Joe is the bad guy that Dexter is waiting for"... The accuracy 😂😂😂

I just found your channel but i'm liking the way you approach these movies, yes please do twilight! Also loved watching them, but they're so messed up, would love to see your take on it xD

How many times do I have to say it?? Just because they were abused doesn't mean they're abusive behaviors are okay nor does it excuse them!!!

Everytime I look at Joe I just see Dan from Gossip Girl and that makes it sooo much funnier

PLEASE DO THE 50 SHADES MOVIES!

Joe is the definition of a “nice guy.” He expects an unrealistic relationship with the “perfect” Beck, and get mad at her when things don’t go the way he wants. I didn’t like the show because it made this toxic mindset look too acceptable. There’s already too many “nice guys” in the world.

Ooooooh when I clicked on the "like" button, it went 8K. I'm proud of my action.

I always felt bad for both beck & love in season 1-3..im gonna watch season 4 now

I mean there a loads of bad peoples out there who justify their actions by doing good things, Joe helping people and being the perfect boyfriend makes him feel good, but he still kills beck and gets over it pretty quickly

Yes! Do 50 Shades! lol

So a little story on the "someone watching you sleep is creepy" I was at a sleep over at my best friends' house for her birthday, but she had work the next morning and had to leave early. (She was 16, I was 17 or 18) but we had slept in the living room. I decided to continue sleeping but I was more just dozing. Next thing I know I turn over, open my eyes and on the other side of the room in a chair is her younger brother (around 13???) Just watching me sleep. This scared the shit out of me and I've never been able to see him in the same light again because it creeped me out so bad. DO NOT WATCH PEOPLE SLEEP, IT BE CREEPY

I have never watched or read it but HOLY COW, girl, the description of his insanity alone made me shiver XD

People who do horrible things sometimes do good things and can be likeable. Maybe because they made it into a show they want to wait to the very end to show how wrong he is like in the Sopranos. IDK I haven't seen the show.

“Joe is the guy Dexter is waiting for” loveeeeee lol so so true!!

Glad I found this channel. I've been binge watching all of your stuff

I freaking love this show. I was on vacation in December and a friend just happen to show me a episode. I didn’t really like it but when I got home maybe a week or two later I gave the episode another try. Ever since the re-watching that episode I’ve loved that show and adore it sometimes.

Well, we are watching the show through his eyes and reason, of course he's always the hero.

i like you because it shows how easier it is to get taken in and sympathize with a narcissist or sociopath. my vibe is that he cared for paco and ellie to justify to himself that he was good. he didn't actually care, he just needed someone to project his sense of goodness onto. joe didn't care about ellie the moment she wasn't playing into the idea that he's her savior he's also an unreliable narrator, so we don't know how accurate his interactions with them really are

It took me a degree in psychology to basically see everything as you do. Honestly, love your channel ❤

I've binge watched so many of your videos since coming across your channel and you're my favorite human already 😍🤣

50 Shades NOW PLZ

...Damn, now I wanna see a crossover episode of Dexter and You: where Dexter kills Joe who tries to justify that he's not a bad person until he's finally killed off after Dexter gives him a cold bite of reality

I only watched season 1. I just didn't have any desire to see more of this guy. I did not watch it for a long time because romanticizing killers and creeps is frustrating, but it did pull me in once I was bored and gave it a shot. The cliffhangers definitely helped hold my attention and all of the nicer character stuff made me just wish Joe would quit being a creep so they could be good together. You are definitely right about how the things they changed confused the message and made him likeable at times when he shouldn't be likeable at all.

YES. REACT TO FIFTY SHADES. I did not know I needed this, but now that you suggested it, I need this!

I mean...I liked the show. I found Love being a killer too to be interesting because now he has no interest in her, and it's because he hates himself since she's just like him. However I do agree with the fact they keep seeming to justify the things he does at times? And I don't really like that part. I don't really want to feel conflicted about a serial killer like this. I like the description the book gave about how his whole life became a mess because of his obsession with her. That just makes him more creepy which is totally necessary in this instance...I should really read the book.

People who root for Joe and see he and Beck’s relationship as healthy isn’t a shocking as it should be considering the likes of Bundy and Dahmer have fanboys/fangirls.

Binge watched three of your videos. Subscribed after this one. Might not get into Death Note might not even watch this show as it's not my jam but then again I also once didn't enjoy chutney. The reason I (we) subscribed however was because you are the first person online to ever as a female properly analyze the problems with a lot of our times issues when it applies to "reality vs social media" in the ways males are basically preprogrammed via media with so much false hope and indoctrinations towards "ideal" and "romantic" perspectives of females. Literally, the main issue we aren't dealing with in modern times mental health crisis, the impacts of fantasizing without actualizing that females are also simply humans being human too not objects or "God given gifts" etc. Kudos.

I agree with everything apart from one thing. Love. I actually really liked the twist and it worked so well with the very last scene of season 2 to show that Joe's psychotic obsessions will never end, he'll never be satisfied. We as viewers think "Oh, it's his soul mate, she's just as fucked up as he is, she can understand him and love him despite him being a psycho". And then he immediately falls for someone else. That shows he doesn't want love, acceptance, understanding. He doesn't want to actually complete his goals. He wants to pursue endlessly.

React to 50 shades please

I think you're forgetting the genius of the screenwriting that makes the main character or "protagonist" joe relatable at times but still obviously a psycho. If anyone sees him as a victim or as an unrelatbale villian to root for are missing the complexity of the character

His thing with trying to 'save' the kids is supposed to be rooted in his own similar trauma as a child, so he's trying to be savior he never had as a child. However, I wish that part were communicated clearer because it is ultimately a selfish motivation.

The problems with the show you pointed out, were the exact reason why I even couldn't finish season 1. It felt too much like they were trying to make him look like a cool, funny guy.

lets not encourage that. nice save!

I never felt like they redeemed him in the show. He seemed creepy in every episode to me.

About how teens talk and think their partner becomes their whole world, my boyfriend once told me that am his whole world and I said, “no, I’m a part of your world, but not your whole world. I’m in your life but you have your whole life to live”

I enjoyed this cast. I thought that the reasons they added these scenes and aspects were to highlight the fact that some of the most dangerous people will have or cultivate aspects - intentionally or not - that humanize him to others to a degree that either lets them have excuses to ignore the other dangerous behavior or preys on the desire to see the best in someone such that they lure you in and get you stuck in a quagmire. I think I appreciated that about this series because in real life the bad guy often does not present unequivocally as the bad guy and thats what makes them so dangerous.

Why wasn’t Edward so creepy to me when I was younger.. now I’m like 😬 wtf