Congratulations 🎉 to Prof. Subhash Kak for winning a Padma Shri award. Padma Shri should given to Shri Rajiv Malhotra also, someone pls recommend his name for next year's Padma awards. It will be a great honor for you tapas of 20 years plus.

What a Wonderful interaction on such a difficult subject. Thank you Rajiv ji for taking the Dharmic tradition forward and inviting erudite scholar Subhash Kakji. He very lucidly explained the issues involved in vesting consciousness in Artificial Intelligence. More and more power to Rajiv ji and Subhash ji for exploring the interface between Western Science, which is based on Materiality and our ancient vedic wisdom, which is much beyond materiality.

Listening to Dr Kak again after a year is so refreshing. Agree absolutely with Dr Kak that wisdom and consciousness is something that the AI will not have.

What i find really interesting in today's times is that as and when science and technology is progressing the Westerners are more leaning towards Hindu culture. Vedanta was always profound when it comes to explaining consciousness. Very thought provoking conversation. Thanks Rajiv ji. You are the modern day Chanakya 🙏🙏

We Hindus believe that our rivers (for example) are individuals too. Ramana Maharshi personified Arunachala hill as an alive entity which was the source of inspiration for him. How does this square up with Vedantic view of Atman, consciousness and maybe complex adaptive systems?

Fabulous! Thank you. Three, from many, of (2019 Padma awardee) Dr. Kak's lucid responses that I found particularly insightful: ~7:57, ~25:17, ~33:33 Rajiv ji's questions/interjections: ~10:20, ~20:58, ~22:12 The poetry in a 'Parth' asking thoughtful questions and listening carefully is hard to miss! :)

Can't thank you enough for this. Will save this to come back again and again. Such an enlightening discussion. Love and respect.

I am following Dr. Kak from very long time happy to see him here.

Nice to meet new member of Rajiv Malhotra JI's team Parth Parihar

The reflections of the sun analogy is used by Adi Shankara. Very fundamental to vedic discourses. While it is different to western thought, it was normal part of learning of advaitha.

"In vedanta consciousness is singular...it's like the same outer Sun reflected in a Million different pots of water in all it's glory...in a same way consciousness which gets reflected through the brains which is like the pot of water in all the individual / sentient beings..."

Thank you Rajiv ji for your tireless contribution to Sanatana Dharma. Wishing Prof. Kak all the success in this field and congrats to the young host.

Rajiv ji thanks for bringing these amazing materials for us to think over .

Amazing to hear Subhash Kak explain AI and Consciousness with so much clarity! I hope he writes a book on the subject so that people everywhere can understand the latest research on the subject. It is incredible to see that our ancient Rishis knew so much about consciousness.

😢😢 Don't Go Rajiv Ji🙏🏻, we need you..!!

A very deep thoughtful discussion

wow...such a sea of knowledge. Thanks.

wonderful. grateful.

Really love Infinity Foundation videos. They are so Informative

Two Giants🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

One of the most interesting talks!

This was a real good talk. Thank you Trinityfoundation for this topic. Hope we will see many more such interactions.

Wow what an enlightening conversation.

Great discussion!

A universally accepted proposition is that when in doubt whether the old is correct or new the old prevails until proved otherwise. The question of conscience coming to machine can wait untill biologists produce artificial JEEVAN. VERY nice discussion. Pranams to Rajivji and Subhashji.

Always amazing to listen Subhashji and the new anchor also did good, keep it up brother.

This is very very interesting.

Thank you Rajiv Ji, For educated us. Jai Hind

Thanks

Awesome 💐🙏

Excellent 🙏🕉🚩

This is really good, we need more such videos .

Great discussion.

Good discussion

Another Good vedio from malhotra ji.

When consciousness itself is trying to find an answer, artificial consciousness is not followed. Nice talk.

Ultimate reality

subash kak ji pranams Hard to digest

Nice discussion!

two great ppl !!

नमस्ते काक जी। Sir🇮🇳🙏👍💪💖🏵️

rajivji jai hind

I would take this as an honor to be one of the early posters:). This is a great perspective to me and think it should be of interest to Tenured (years) IT career partisans. Greetings /\ Malhotra ji. Well done Parth Parihar. Greetings Dr. Shubash Ji /\, Destined to hear your views and especially view on elucidating Consciousness and AI, that is, Machines being built by Humans to do Material-Operations; additionally, they being supposedly be self-learning to move towards gaining (Self-Learning) Consciousness as Fundamental to be an Energy on this Planet. But the Self-Learning Capability be only to the extend that humans can ( or allowed to as Asuras/Circumstantial forces can come into play) put "it" in "sounds/communication/Language". I think (would not put it as "interesting") this is the limitation as of now that all the Machines can learn is what humans can put in "its communication"; And the need to attain Spiritual Wisdom/Consciousness b humans for our own betterment. Consciousness could bring about possibilities to enhance ones' Capabilities including Communication and other not-foreseen-abilities. Nevertheless, Resources (FTEs) doing tasks responding to Communication (Language at present) would have to find alternative ways. This is the impact of AI at present. Then you spoke about Internal and External Existence vis-a-vi, Brahman (more than embodiment) and Atman ('s material manifestation). Great to hear you Sir.

नमस्कार ऋषि राजीव मल्होत्रा🙏🙏🙏❣️❣️❣️💪💪💪💖💗💗🏵️🏵️🏵️🇮🇳जय भारत।

Excellent episode. Thank you @RajivMalhotra ji for an insightful discussion. In a way the machines (existing, even non-aware by definition) already do accumulate Karma. For example, the computers or software systems that are programmed to behave based on their past history do get their future actions (operations) influenced by their (karmic) memory. If we are to define the (active) life of a machine as life between a startup and shutdown, then this karma (consequences of past actions) influencing karma (current actions given the initial conditions of past actions) cycle also passes between multiple lives. The memory of past karma is left in inanimate form between lives of the machine etched into some hardware memory system. Listening to Sri Subhash Kak, made me wonder if this whole science is "western pursuit" of Vedanta using Greek/Latin/English words in the current cycle. Yes, there is what we call technology that differentiate Hindu Vedanta and modern science. But isn't a traditional farmer's farming process is also a science itself, even if it may not be as efficient (and polluting) as the modern farming methods? Sri Subhash Kak sounded to me as if he is translating Upanishadic knowledge into modern science for the Hindu-illiterates (people who aren't aware of Santana Hindu Dharma). Thanks

जय हिन्द

Hi rajivji I am big fen of you

keep going sir

Good start Rajivji with a fresh challenging thought. These thoughts should now be taken up by the upcoming young generation and not just indulge into cheap political issues

Thanks Rajivji for this great conversation. AI today seems largely satisfied with using AI to solve commercial problems.

Namaste

Waiting for Prof Kak for long to appear on this show.

Parth is excellent orator ,congrats to him for carrying on rajiv ji's legacy. Still i will miss rajiv ji's divine voice. I see devotion in parth. But missing that universal appeal.

There are various levels of consciousness..I think ai can become conscious ...In vedic age in mahabharat all these astras does look similar to this concept of ai.. Good initiative by rajiv malhotra g..More.& more debates like these should be there on grand scale & should be common sight in gurukuls.

It was great hear discussion the Mathematician Ramanujan and direct line to Devi. This is recent recorded event. It would be great RM could interview the devotees of Sai Baba and explain the miracles attributed to Baba. Sai Baba is also a recent phenomenon and many of the devotees who interacted with him are still alive to talk about their experiences.

Rajiv sir....we want to see and listen to you😁

A great conversation! Thanks for the efforts. However- I am still not convinced about this particular point, that consciousness exists beyond the material- I still tend to believe in the materialistic emergent interpretation of consciousness. Though I understand the value of the Vedantic perspective in a lot of other things. Maybe I need to read up more about this? Can you please suggest some readings for this specific point? I found this really interesting because I am a practicing Hindu and a Machine Learning researcher.

This prana being energy is very much a true statement. I had before describe the earth to be bitterness, water to be saltiness, sky to be sourness, fire to be spice and air to be sweetness. Sugar is an energy content as you know. And also prana here is what brings tendencies. I wonder what tendency enhancement or display have anything to with sugar or maybe interests/ inclinations? We do have a very brilliant scientist here who may just be able to light a spark of possibility inbetween the fuedal clash of materialism and spirituality. Which reminds me of the awareness to prefer and choose as well as value that gives birth to priorities so we often describe it in words like "this overshadowed or engulfed or covered that" or when there is struggle in those priorities we often describe it with words like "torn apart, entangled, captured, held binded to" etc. Perhaps we can figure it mathematically but it won't work without experience. Consciousness or chitta or purusha or paramatma depending on which context its interpreted with associatively and relatively. I think prana is a subjective version of vayu. As per what I know, its from akasha that vayu came then fire then water etc. Which means prana must come from emptiness or akashic mind. Water represents memory. Its the underlying essence which holds together all patterns and formations in physicality. Prana is more related change. If bio machines developed human characteristics, its very likely that its threat fear and security also have similarities. If that is so, it may have or experience deformatilities due to that deviation it experiences apart from its material nature. Later, when it acts on balancing that deviation. Either it becomes entirely human or it becomes destructive eradicating embodiment towards whatever it finds unsuitable or not matching because of the contradiction it faces of its body formation and characteristics. These are objective appearing subjectively under experiential factors. Like plants growing at different rates seeing different heights absorbing solar energy accordngly to its size. Occurence and its evidence is objective under human experiential scale but rate is subjective to individuals. Those re organising is a part pattern of consciousness acting through everywhere. It can only happen when you're dealing with situations that is the effect or result of life that can interpret and enquire or aspire for meaning which itself is an abstraction. Its our characteristics that dictate our actions and almost all effects we face situational and social wise is its product. The product of human nature which includes interpretative and valuing capability. Karma involves reason which converges and arranges cause and effect equillibrium balance, its less inclined towards physical fixing which requires less necessity for being conscious. Karma works through existantial memory pattern but its subject to characteristics or nature or qualities of life as well since situations are just a cyclical rebound of those qualities reflecting

Isn't consciousness an observer effect as well? How many realize thier own consciousness without concentrating on thier breath? I think the discussion at the beginning slipped into tapping into akashic records for information. Great video, best wishes to the young man , pretty large boots u r stepping into!

I cannot believe this is the first time Subhash Kak has featured in your channel. How come so late Rajivji?

Such a mind blowing conversation. I don't think machines will ever have consciousness.

Ok , Mr Subhash Kak talks about Prana coming out of consciousness, however as per the Samkhya and Yoga Darshanas , Prana comes from Mahat, which is the cosmic mind , and the cosmic mind is not consciousness as per even Yoga and Samkhya . Also we still do not know what Prana is actually , Prana is said to be the fundamental force which is the source of all forces. Even breath is not Prana. So when we actually explore from our side and our analysis . We actually reduce the arguments from the materialistic side to a large extent .

Rajiv sir please talk about how our ancient indian practices and knowledge is being patented by the West. Recently they patented Pranayam. How can we just let it happen

Reinforces and re-establishes the supremacy of Vedic wisdom.

If I build the frame and put tires, and doors, and seats, and a steering wheel, and an engine, then the driver should emerge?

Thank you for sharing this. I remember listening to a similar argument by Noam Chomsky some time ago. But I'm doubtful about it, since of late, AI researchers have ended up developing algorithms which are quite complex by nature, and whose complexity arises in an emergent manner, in a similar way as phenomena pertaining to consciousness come about. Also, I think Dr. Kak is trying to get at the idea that AI's can't become conscious because, according to him, they cannot experience 'shunyata', in the way that advanced meditators do. Again, I have my doubts on this. What if the buzzing of electricity required to run computing machines is the 'shunyata' for an advanced artificial intelligence?

A conscious being can never harm the other being because at the end everything is Brahman

nevertheless an interesting discourse.

It was really awesome discussion. I am sure AI can never gain consciousness but what is truely questionable is " are we really acting living working like a concious being". And the answer is No and thats where Machines AI is better and will surely takeover. Hari om.

Now that we know that even plants have intelligence and awareness and that human perception of meta intelligence through mind( primarily lingual),also that different colors in sun rays influence human mood, do you think further developments in Opto- computing could make a breakthrough in establishing alternative ways of enhancing understanding of super intelligence ?

Modern Ai seems to deal up to the level of intellect but as, yogeshwar krishna said atman is beyond intellect and works as a prana(life force) for intellect and drives it every action. Modern science confuses themselves between wakefullness and consciousness.Consciousness is beyond memory. Om

Good video and nice concepts being discussed. One thing that did not appear in the discussion is that consciousness is for the jeeva within every living thing in this planet bacteria till human beings...machines and computers cannot and does not have a jeeva into that....once the jeeva becomes conscious...it tries to move into the liberation path at some.point and stops doing the materialistic world's activities..if computer or machine stops to do the intended task then what is the point in building such a machine or computer which does not support the current day thought of machines taking over human work...

Very tough subject. Understood only the 10% of what Dr said. Need to watch again with full focus.

The question, I think, is not whether or not a AI entity can become conscious on its own or not. The question is whether a conscious being can take over an AI unit, like a robot, given that a robot would already have a material body, a mind of sorts and energy. It may be possible...

Thanks Subhash Kak for this wonderful discussion. Have one doubt. Could you please explain what was being referred to when you said "... you're not allowed to have some thoughts. Certain kind of thoughts have already been BANISHED..." Could not get that clearly. Please help understand better. Thanks !

This is proof that even behind the idea of AI there is a dharmic philosophy. To me personally this proves that even AI is dependent on something... there is some other entity that is not dependent on anything and is truly independent. Nature, type, shape, place of dwelling of that entity is not yet clear.

Sir , Please do make necessary recommendations for INFORMATION ARMY !!, WE NEED OUR COUNTRY'S INFORMATION , DATA, KNOWLEDGE , WISDOM to be protected from being attached. 1. Protect Historical information 2.Protect Present current Private citizen and personally identified information 3.Protect Future Strategic information , how the data packets are going , to be controlled

Rajivji namaste there is a guy who says snaskrit is not an old language and puranas are deciful and Mahabharata and Ramayana never happened ,his name is rajendra singh

Please make a video on destiny, and how it's works? Or is there anything in real like Destiny?🤔Or It is human created thing.?

There is another view, and also some data, which suggests that consciousness might be independent of the matter; just as light is independent of eye. Matter or eye can be formed into instrument for perceiving matter and eye. Dean Radin's global consciousness project is one such project, in which random number generators have been observed to fluctuate in a definite pattern prior to any event of global significance, like Tsunami etc. This effect, many parapsychologists claim is similar to what they have observed in lab, whenever subjects are showed pictures with sufficient mental provocation subliminally, skin resistance changes and other physiological changes occur 'BEFORE' even the pictures are flashed.

The subject of computers acquiring consciousness is balderdash !

what is the hindi/ sanskrit word for consciousness , anyone ?

No AI can't become conscious, it is 500% guaranteed.

Sir , is there will be a limit of AI capability like humans have !!

Hi

pure form of youness or i ness is consciousness.. shed all the impure imagination of i ness after shedding still iness will shine ..why struggle searching elswhere leaving the i ness

Vedanta is a rich treasure trove of wisdom;it is beyond mere knowledge because it prods the human intellect into action in quest of realty and of truth ! However, quantum theory is essentially a mathematical framework to describe physics on the smallest scales. Quantum effects are rarely manifest on macroscales and are certainly not relevant to everyday experience of reality. Much of the debate around quantum mechanics involving consciousness is too metaphysical and often metaphorical ( consciousness just just about mean any kind of "observation " that perturbs the system forcing it to collapse into one of the several possible states ( which are clearly defined eigen function s).

Well, the prana is very important because it carry the consciousness inside the body. The subtle body also is important. He spoke just of gross body and consciousness, and forget all this. So for a machine to become conscious, it needs prana and a subtle body also and it will be no more a machine.

The difference lies in the underlying nature of material made up and something which has its own awareness. If you create AI, its for sure it can accumulate a lot of information and produce various combinations of it. However, as it acts it cannot or does not have the characteristics of expansion. We roughly address this as wanting or desiring something new. This wish for expansion is an inner quantum nature of both consciousness and universe. This creates possbilities. Contrary to the emergence of randomness theory, this stands as an opposition factor rivalry, which states convergence is determined by a non physical characteristic that produces its own pattern in the existence which is perceived as various forms of energy. To put it simply, human beings have an expansion type of awareness to seek for newer possibilities through those accumulations and bring pattern to it. Many things we have even founded was because we have that nature within us. Its even self contradictory to say otherwise because of the fact that we possess our own will and characteristics which moves us and not the matter itself. There are various forms of awareness here which bring different standards, identity, desire, comparison and differentiation, convenience, action, emotion, inclusion or wantung to include. These are just an awareness. But if we jump into consciousness which actually directs these all, awareness to seek meaning, to reason, to interpret, to prefer and choose, to value, to doubt and learn etc and etc makes consciousness at its entirety seperate from plain awareness We human beings can describe linguistically and perceive causations, and somehow merge that with reality in an appropriate manner. we can see different states, occurences, impacts or influences, activities or properties, events etc and also relate with them splendidly through our own nature. Lets just take an example here. An occurence happens such as catastrophy. The observer can interpret the activities and describe it like "As I was standing firm on the dusty grounds, a random and wild storm unexpectedly came that was beyond what these fragile object of my body could withstand. It was as though a ship was taken astray by the strong and heavy waves." Even in such words, you see even in such a simple sentences, its possible to describe as well as interpret a causation, the situation, how it affects us, the state (awareness perceptional wise, a state can be associated with ignorance curiosity/passion and realisation or knowing) words like unexpected, surprise, shocking etc. But if we relate and integrate it with desire or interest standard then words like "betterment, degradation, advantageous, scope, utility etc is derived as a form in order to describe it. If we integrate it in relation with emotions then words like "anticipation, excitement, disappointment" etc comes. All of these can even have interpretations meaning and values of its own with other existantial interactions. So you see, knowing life carries within itself something which expands beyond plain accumulations. Even to describe one is tired one can say it like "the cloth which is this body has withered out like a flower whose time has run over bending to its echoing cycles where the warmth of mercy nor the sorrow cannot have its unchanging stance within time's dance" Such is the complexity of life materialism cant grasp

Physics and Meta physics (Sunyata) Emptiness to full ness, zero to infinite, dark and into light and vis versa atma and paramatma are fantastic studies. Modern Saints hat off to you. Continue and enlighten us. Thank you.

We should consider that consciousness requires being alive. If the brain evolved, why not consciousness? For AI to be conscious, would it not first have to be alive? What is it about the simplest organism that makes a piece of matter meaningful, as food for example, that evolves to form the complex environment known to humans? The human brain is part of an organism, not a mechanism.

I still don't understand what is Consciousness ? is there a sanskrit word for it ? can some one give me a definition fo Consciousness ?

Why not have a debate with Sam Harris?

Machines can never be conscious because to be conscious one needs jivatma. They may emulate human beings in a perfect way. They may generate some automnomous decisions too but that decision itself would depend on the algorithm written by some jivatma (human being).

prana is not just an energy which activates the body. The entire creation is run on prana shakti. Prana is the shakti that exists in every spec of creation. Prana is a frequency, a vibration and it originates from Brahma, the subtlest frequency. When prana originated, the level of frequency started changing and prana divided itself into five frequencies, them being the five elements - prithvi, jal, akash, vayu and agni. These elements then combined together in various permutations and combinations to form different things in creation including our body. www.dhyanfoundation.com/guru-shishya.php

Dont think that materialism is dark and transcendence is light. A well meaning material endeavor done under the ambit of dharma which satisfies any and every purusharthas will actually and eventually lead to moksha. Whereas false transcendence or false spiritual practices or even false religious practices will lead to harm.

Their is one more view i.e. the conscious is nothing more but information about how to process information. And every single string or partical posses that quality or गुणः at least that's the view I am stuck with. Just like nobody tells how a child should feel nobody tells a photon what it should do when it hits a material.

Will computers, if they become conscious, be able to mediate ?? Do they they need peace ? Will they start searching for the truth?

Namo Namah Guru Rajiv Ji, Nice talk show. i did not like the idea of Pandits being replaced by machines for rituals....because i hv seen both happening in our various frn's homes but i never find the manchine pooja or rituals were in anyway near to a human being performing it....It only saved money of the host but the effect was nil.....its like famous lines from one of old Hindi song which goes like this " Sacchayi chup nahin sakti banawat ke usuulon se, Ke khushboo aa nahin sakti kabhi kagaz ke phoolon se"... Talk show is heavy phylosophy for common man...but widening our buddhi.

A few tricky and turning points in the discussion.ok. Let the scientist emulate the self-seeing gurus first. Consciousness is to be understood by the sense of being ever present any moment or in any space thereby transcending the time- space world.