Go check out our course on the best kick for self defense at hard2hurt.teachable.com

Props to Maddox for being a better camera operator than a lot of adults.

*"Chokes are better than locks"* *LockPickingLawyer:* Interesting...

Another great technique video. Wont be long till i can become the next batman...

I broke someone’s arm in an MMA fight once with a arm bar and they didn’t even know it was broke until the fight was over because of the adrenaline so yeah at least with chokes you have no choice but to go to sleep As always great video

In Farmer Burns' book, 1914, he shows a photo of how to execute the choke, with the captions "the choke, though banned in wrestling, important for self defense."

Mike, I'm also a short guy and I have never ONCE been able to do a rear-naked from a standing position. Everyone is always too tall for me. I've had better success with guillotine but mainly when I use my legs. 99% of the time my chokes only work on the ground. Also, as for your story, I've had worthless friends like that who stare blankly when you need backup which is why I started boxing in the first place.

The ultimate denfence to a choke is saying ' harder daddy" 😂

I agree. If you're going to do a joint lock to submit someone in a street fight, there's no "look i'm in a superior position, and I can break your arm, just stop resisting." You have to treat a joint lock as if you were attacking your oponent with a weapon. If you're not willing to go all the way with it, then there's no point in even trying. This is one of the reasons why I think wrestling is completely overlooked in a streetfight. Sure, there aren't many "finishing moves" in contemporary wrestling styles, but its by far the best framework of how to control an opponent and not allow them to control you. Either way, submissions are dangerous, no matter if they're chokes or if they're joint locks. Its great that we can consider this stuff a game as far as training goes, but when you're in a fight you necessarily have to be a killer.

Choke is the king, armbar the queen, and a leg lock- a dirty jocker, they say.

As a couple very good teachers I know (martial artists and cops) have said the same thing in slightly different ways. "Pain compliance depends on him being reasonable. If he was reasonable he wouldn't have attacked you. Make it so he can't hurt you." They also mostly said about locks that "A lock is a break. Don't look for it, but if you get it break the limb and move on."

Talking about us average guys not knowing when we're actually in trouble is so true. Screwing around with a friend of mine and he had cut off my airway, and for a moment I had absolutely no idea I wasn't breathing any more. I was so focused on trying to get out of how had me and gain some sort of upper hand I was oblivious to my own predicament for way longer than I should have been or would have even thought possible. Massive eye opener for me.

Cliff is a very welcome addition to the channel. You can tell he can fight but is always humble and ready to show and learn as well. Big ups👍 Jay is the man and the OG and is skilled and knowledgeable as well. Fun team all around!!

This is why I think the judo approach to ground-fighting is underestimated. Getting _really_ good at pinning someone is very useful.

I love the thought of a choke just turning someone off lmao. It just sounds really funny

I like the "realness" and "modesty" of that guy. Down to earth tips, this is rear nowdays.

I agree with you. Many submission holds, while effective in competition or training, carry too much risk for self-defense situations. They may require too much time, space, or strength, or leave you vulnerable to counterattacks. In self-defense, the goal is to quickly neutralize the threat and escape safely, rather than trying to submit or control the attacker. Simple strikes, escapes, and positional control are often more practical and effective in real-world self-defense scenarios. 💪

One of the first things my Ju Jutsu instructor taught me was how to get out of a standing rear naked choke. His reasoning was that, at least in his own experience, most street hooligans who know how to grapple will try that technique first. That was difficult training.

Man I did mma for a bit and chokes were definitely superior to submissions I feel like it’s just easier to get because you don’t need to be as Precise

How appropriately timely. I actually talked about my preference for chokes over locks in self defense in my latest video. We have an expression in my training, “if you destroy the function, it ceases to function,” which we usually use to refer to leg kicks (kicking someone in the leg so they can’t stand/run after/post on it is probably better than kicking them in the groin) but definitely applies to putting somebody out/controlling them with a choke. EVERYBODY knows the danger they’re in when their neck gets grabbed (and if they don’t, irrelevant, since they’re going to sleep anyway) but not everybody knows how dangerous an ankle lock is.

I think it's important to consider the legal implications of choking someone. It many states choking someone is a felony and you can go to prison. Though, I agree chokes/submissions are more effective than locks. Martial arts is very contextual and the legal system is an important consideration in what techniques are effective, just like the present situation and the person's clothing, etc.

I love your videos because you know what is and what isn't practical for the streets because of your background!!! Thank you so much for videos like this one!!!! And if you are interested in learning about self defense in countries in Europe!!! I'm more than happy to explain the laws to you!!! Especially in Greece (because I live in Greece)!!!

I always more or less had this same opinion regarding chokes vs locks in a situation. With a good choke it's just too unmistakable what's going on. Your head feels like it's gonna pop like a grape and your consciousness begins to fade very fast. A lock just doesn't have that instant obvious feedback.

Been a while since I've tuned in, but glad to see they finally got a guy big enough to fight Jay 😂

Love your logic on chokes are better than locks. This is my go to strategy that I train/visualize and it is what I used effectively in the only serious self defense situation I’ve been in. Great video.

Dude, first off I love your content Mike. I like when you include Cliff in the videos too. In combative situations where it’s life and death, or at least if you find yourself in fear of egregious bodily harm, you need to apply these techniques to completion. There are no taps “in da streetz”, but seriously, like you said some people don’t know they lost until they hear/feel their arm breaking. They might even be pulling a knive out with the other hand as you wait for the tap. I also think you guys make a really good point, the PCP/coked out participants aren’t going to feel that arm break, and unless it’s a really nasty break they will probably still be able to use the arm to a certain extent especially if they don’t feel anything. So in those situations the choke out is far superior, next to just Jean-Claude Van Damme snapping their neck I suppose.

Thank You, Excellent talk and great work.

I’ve been binge watching this entire channel hardcore. I think it’s my new favorite

Good video! Another one that I agree completely with! I have finished several street situations with chokes and seen plenty of drunks fight through broken bones. I have had pretty good results from a hip throw or shoulder throw-if they set themselves up for it. I have used pins on people before (scarf hold, belly down figure 4 leg hold and such) when I had the luxury of time and help. Loving your channel.

This is great, pretty much agree 100% that chokes should be preferred to locks, though I emphasise everything from standing position, which further makes chokes all the better. You said it right there that you split your head open while getting the guy into the armbar, which further shows all them submission locks just take **WAAAY** too long and needlessly endangers you...

I've been in a good bit of scraps, and the only submissions that I've found that work out in the world are strangles done with the arms. Using your legs can get them moved around, but they put you at a major disadvantage(especially if they have a friend you didn't see). And using your legs for a submission, you may actually have to break them, because you can't guarantee they will submit due to pain. Strangles are better than chokes, because they are faster and do less damage. RNC and arm triangle grow strangles are they safest for you and them, in general.

Thanks again guys!

"When it comes to chokes, there are no tough guys. Everyone goes to sleep." - Helio Gracie.

Submission in the streets , tap out in the sheets !

I completely agree. Marcelo Garcia basically only does chokes because in self defense there's no arguing with the choke.

Why doesn't this channel have a million subs? This videos are well organized and well put together

I been saying that for months. I also been saying would you rather someone lose consciousness for a few seconds, or they can go to the er with broken bones and torn ligaments

I agree, because if someone is on drugs or alcohol it can happen that he still is going to attack you after you broke his arm with an armbar. A choke will always put him out so you can get away. With multiple attackers it's another story of course.

Kickin' my day off right🔥💪

Cliff is like a sleeping giant...he looks hella strong, that's why you want him as a friend xD....nice techniques Mike.

Your videos crack me up man 🙏

what about neck cranks, paralyze him leave him on the ground, seems reasonable?

Good perspective

That was well done brother

This is absolutely correct. A lock was never supposed to control somebody. It was designed to break a opponents bones or joints in war. The possibility of controling someone with a lock works only if he feels the pain AND you command exactly what you expect him to do! As a bouncer I've broken two opponents wrists, two opponents jaws, one guys nose, one thumb and I've thrown a couple of attackers and many of them continued resistance because they didn't feel pain because of intoxication or sheer agression. On the other hand I have choked out 40+ opponents and handcuffed without problems. It is crucial to understand that if you choke out sombody, his life is in your hands and you are responsible for his safety now! Another thing: DON'T COMPLETE CHOKES IN TRAINING LIKE YOU DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE WITH LIVE AMMUNITION IN TRAINING! Chokes are harmfull if someone has a health condition or the person doing the choke is doing it wrong. You don't want to find out in training.

Training mode when you get hit on the head is a helluva thing. I was about 17 and wrestling freestyle at this club that was hosted in the basement of the local Catholic high school when this dude yeeted me into the rafters. It was a beautiful 5 point throw (apparently), but my noggin bounced off of the steel rafters and gave me a beauty of a concussion. I came down to the mat, covered the sides of my head and defended against cross-face until my mentor noticed that I was clearly not fighting back, just defending and pulled the guy off of me.

KZfaq just recommended this to me. After some current high profile cases I feel like now a days the better option, especially if the guy is on something, is to just grab a limb and break it. Safer than the guy ODing while your arms around his neck.

Choke is higher percentage move for sure,I prefer armbar though People dont die from broken arms but they can die from being choked out (you don't know their medical history ect) so for me thats a last resort One of the first drills I learned for bjj was armbar from mount, roll out of the arm break back up to feet again If you are doing it against someone with low enough grappling skill you can take down, break arm and get up in a pretty frighteningly quick amount of time

Yes I just learned that in my judo class

I've got a great "MaRtIaL aRt" for you to look up and maybe do a video about, it's called Dim Mak (also known as the death touch). I used to watch videos of this martial art as a kid and be completely amazed🤣

i agree 100% with you about chokes> locks, but where i am bouncers/security/police are not allowed to use them ever

*thanks for info its been helpful😀*

A little more advanced, but lapel type chokes with clothing are pretty cool. Especially with hoody season coming up.

I agree that in self defense chokes are better than submissions most of the time. The "short" respiratory choke is faster, inflicts more discomfort on the uke than the RNC and can more easily do serious injury to the trachea than the sanguineous RNC. RNC is sneakier in that the untrained will not know they are about to lose consciousness until just before the walls close in on them. I used to teach both with the caveats above. Sometimes the "short" choke can be a good choice when there is more than one attacker in that if they are not serious fighters, the sight of their friend thrashing around in pain may get them to back off.

I agree 100% from a practical perspective, having seen videos of a BJJ-trained cop popping a guy's shoulder with an armlock (don't remember what kind off the top of my head) multiple times outside a club and him continuing to fight. Great content as always. Not something that gets brought up often enough. People often treat joint locks as fight-enders because they're used to seeing them be such in the cage or rolling. This is one of the very few cases where the *"But on da streetz!"* argument holds water. Which isn't to say joint locks are useless in a street fight, of course. They still hurt and deter and control, especially if you're fighting someone who isn't drugged the fuck out. And even if they are, popping a limb will make them less of a threat. But I digress... That said, it's also worth considering the legal/policy aspect and ramifications first. Many police departments don't allow chokeholds (or "sleeper holds" as some still call them) of any kind and haven't for many years. And with good reason, considering the deaths that have resulted from their misapplication by officers that abused them without being properly trained in their usage. Leaving the law enforcement part of it aside; I was part of another discussion about the use of blood/air chokes for self-defense by private citizens and someone brought up an interesting point I'd like your opinion on. Some jurisdictions actually have enacted specific statutes about strangulation, typically used as "enhancement charges" for domestic violence cases though they can be applied to any case of assault or battery in theory. So if you end up in a scuffle and your self-defense claim doesn't pass muster, you could potentially end up with a major felony case because you "strangled" someone in what would have otherwise been seen as a misdemeanor case of assault/battery or even been dismissed as an instance of mutual combat in states that have that. Again, this is probably putting the cart before the horse and if you're legitimately defending life and limb, then do what you must in order to keep yourself and others safe. But just something to keep in mind!

I saw a video of a guy that got into a fight at a basketball game and got a leg lock on a guy and the guy didn’t stop so he started yelling “I will break your knee right now you’ll never play basketball again” and push pressure on the knee, the guy stopped. Saying something like this is super smart if you have a submission that someone doesn’t know they are in

I need to practice my clinch and pummeling more. Both offensively and defensively. I was sparring with a friend and I went for the clinch, was ok initially, but he had that low stance like jay had and I didn't even consider a guillotine or other grappling options from it.

This emphasizes the problem I have with Aikido as it is practiced today. There are a bunch of locks, and throws, which can or will cause great injury to the opponent. However in true Aikido or Art of Peace one is meant to avoid severely or permanently injuring an opponent.

Thanks😃👍

Completely agree

The dream team at it again! It’s like the best hbo combat sports sitcom

The thing with chokes is that depending on the state you live in you can get into some really deep shit for choking a person in a street fight. As a choke is considered a strangulation move the guy you’re choking may later claim that you were trying to kill him in a court of law. :p even tho it’s actually safer for them & it would be way worse if you’d snap a limb but the way regular people view martial arts is weird.

My teacher bounced before and he's said pretty much this exact thing. But in different words.

You make perfect sense. I know of standing arm bars/breaks in judo, but there is virtually no time for "submission", you either break the limb right there or the other guy gets out and you lose position. That said, people should learn both. Chokes and locks. Id argue, they are more important than the "art of fisting".

Other than the RNC and Guillitine for a relatively non violent conflict resolution, you should 100% be beating them into submission from a dominant position. You drop a couple of elbows onto a man's face and he'll comply much faster from the shock.

The gooseneck lock and the hammer lock are probably the only locks I would do if I needed to escort someone out of somewhere (e.g a club).

One little up for the short choke don't interlock your thumbs use the gable grip

You should do a review of brass knuckles for self defense. They are legal to carry here in Texas

Jay always looks like he's just dying to Hulk Smash XD

Masahiko Kimura famously broke Helio Gracie's arm twice in a match and Gracie kept fighting him lol. Totally agree chokes are the way to go.

100% agree that chokes are better than knocking someone out, but in the uk chokes for police and security are illegal because a few morons accidentally killed the person they're arresting/escorting out because they dont know when to let go

You were rating weapons a few days ago and i have one that i would like to hear your opinion about, its called a trench knife.

this channel is funny asf and i swear i learn more stuff about life on here than in school

Shoulder locks are far more likely to have the "please stop because I know you are going to break my arm" aka compliance than armbars and especially legs locks. This is why shoulder locks are more likely to be taught to police, in addition to the advantage of handcuffing them. Chokes of course are still better.

@hard2hurt, IcyMike, What are your thoughts on Iron Palm training for the proverbial streets, like Dr Dale Dugas who busts the coconuts with his palm heel?

I've had to use locks on a person that was about to cause harm, and in my mind, pain would be something that would dissuade them from continuing. I've learned from experience, that pain just makes them struggle more, and fight back more. And would cause more potential harm. I like knowing more practical ways to stop someone or restrain someone without causing them pain. Thanks for this video!

Helio Gracie preferred chokes over joint locks. I do think you have be super careful in security or law enforcement with chokes and need proper training to apply them.

Most people when they wake up from a choke lose heart and don't want to fight no more. A lot of psychos will still fight through a broken arm.

What about the n/s kimura for law enforcement

One thing about chokes is that they are super illegal in some places. I agree with you that they are way better than locks for self defense, but the law often doesn't agree and you might get sued for attempted murder. Maybe just check about the common policy where you live, just to be sure.

Has Jay considered using a gable grip for that choke instead of thumbs in? I get a lot more downward and forward leverage that way and find it much easier to sit people down from there.

Great!

I would love your thoughts on the Filipino Fighting Style called "Pakamut" in terms of real world! Great vids!

I wonder if nowadays, with the popularity of BJJ and MMA, if more people would recognize when they are being put in an armbar or other joint submissions and if we've been societally conditioned to tap.

These the kinds of bouncers we need in the UK; the fact you even think about them not knowing they're in trouble. Here they'll gouge your eyes out for looking at em

What do you think of standing triangles or front facelocks?

What about joint locks? Like the goose neck?

Actuatually chokes have problems with legality in some parts. I get thief in some of my old works, I just use weith for control him, meanwille a coworker use something to control him. In my country, some security guards in accident kill some one with a choke, so these days their have being very hard on that matter with people and police. Is preferible to break the arm, to risk killing the dude, that is the thing now. (At least he don't gonna be able to use it to harm anyone)

Yes thats a fact in a street situation choke-hold are more favorable than joint-locks.

Agree 100%. Lost count of number of chokes I've used to stop aggressive person. What many people don't realise is that you're constantly judging a situation and damaging an innocent or only mildly aggressive person can put you in big trouble. Also, as you say, people don't tap out.. arm bars etc you have to break. Also, we all know going to floor happens but you should not stay there. Choke don't show any obvious damage, they disable quickly, they don't require much strength. Which choke. You need rear naked coke, guillotine, front choke (but learn how to do them well!). Triangle choke on floor also good, cos if they are on top of you, you're not gonna stand quickly Ps I choked someone 3 times once as they just wouldn't stop when they woke up.. only stopped cos friends dragged him away, eh eh. I guess benefit of choke is sometimes also drawback.. you've only temporarily incapacitated them.

In my 10 years of training jiu-jitsu, and obviously cross training in boxing and muay thai. Chokes are definitely the best. I've had to choke some drunk and another guy high on something and I had him in a Kimura I know it was tearing but he was going non stop. Luckily someone came over and we were able to hold him down and wait for the authorities

Mike you should checkout red chuck's video you going to be happy his wearing one of your hoodies

Every time someone says "da streetz" I think of master wong lol.

Well, this is a big problem: have submission & the guy on the ground doesn't react to having joints twisted/broken, transition to a choke and it just "happens" that the guys on enough that simple choke puts them out forever... I mean - even just to attend fight classes a person has got to have a doctors opinion, but "streetfighters", junkies etc don't know (and neiter person having to deal with them) what will/would affect them.

i like the story time vibe of this shit

I like that Thai clinch to guillotine! Never used the Thai clinch outside of Muay Thai, except when messing around with a mate. And it's funny, one of our mates is a big dude. His go-to is to basically bear hug the shit outta of you. Now he's much bigger than me, I'd be slightly taller but he's fucking burly, but I caught him in a Thai clinch one night and he did exactly what was shown here. He ducked his head down to try and lift me up. Now I didn't go for any kind of choke, we were only messing, although it did smart his ego that he couldn't get out of the clinch haha! A nice move was pinning my elbows into the collar bone, which kept him pivoted out slightly, and away from waist, where he could pick me up and slam me; if actually fighting that is. What's funny is you can never mess throwing hands, so he has too much confidence in his size and bulk.

Am I turning? You probably should. Classic

In Royce Gracie's law enforcement course he teaches how to transition from a straight armbar to a cuffing position. Don't get me wrong I agree chokes are generally better just some food for thought.

0:11 can you use an engagement ring as a self defense weapon?

You can't trust the tap, so you would need to take the hold to its conclusion and snap things. Definitely not good if you are a cop and ripping knees apart.