It's only 20 dollars, what could you even buy with that? 2 bananas?

he's getting 200k a year for assisting Tom in season 4 lmao

impeccable writing! greg even tells her that this is his last money, and SHE tells HIM that thats ok. i guess she wanted to say 20 is enough for now.

​@@marykay7878she thought it's his last money in cash most people still have money in their bank account

To be fair she didn’t know he was homeless/broke and he for some reason didn’t just say “no” 😭

100 percent

He’s spoken about it before in a previous video if I recall

she had like 40 seconds of lines in the whole episode and she DESTROYED everyone

@@fergie42069 FORREAL

There's a previous video on this and the whole Chiantishire/All the Bells Say S3 finale

Is someone a victim if they subject themselves to it?

@@mystriddlery Subject themselves to it by what, choosing to be born into an abusive family? All the Roy kids are victims

@@abrakedavra9605 Choosing to stay. She’s an adult, she could leave whenever she wanted to, my comment was more about her as an adult.

@@mystriddlery she simply doesn’t know better. I’m aware that alone sounds dumb, but in a place where she was constantly thrown under the bus for being a woman what seemed the most reasonable was to stay and prove everybody wrong. Besides, leaving wouldn’t be the best economic move either. Lastly, all of them are victims no matter what. All of them could have left at any point in time. But everyone’s much too broken, they try to always come on top but are completely failing to see how money can actually do good. The problem is how would they know if the people they surround themselves and what they have always known was inherently wrong? Kendall, Roman and Siobhan should have try and do what Connor did. But we all know how Connor is. It certainly wouldn’t have helped the company either, why did all of the kids left knowing they had a shot at being as good as their dad (or that’s what the public thinks, even when everybody knows how much of an ass Logan is). What is it that Logan hides that made their own kids leave. American people love a family man, or the idea of one. Logan simply would have lacked the support of a big part of the public that watches their trash. Even the majority too, just maybe.

I don't actually think she was a victim as much as Kendall and Roman. She was youngest and an only girl and youngest children are usually showered with attention. She's also the most entitled of the three which means she was spoiled, and Marcia calls her spoiled and everyone mentioned few times she was a favorite. She was maybe dismissed for the top job as a woman, but abused.... I really don't think so. Logan calls his sons derogatory names and her he calls Pinky. So yeah, she was his pet.

Why is she a redhead?

I think we gotta talk about Greg being in the car with Matsson. Maybe?

​@@iamliterallyjesuschrist Ressesive genes? Do they work like that?

Logan was Scottish, and there are more redheads there than anywhere else… so genetics?

Despite Shiv being the only redhead in the fam I actually feel like she's the only one who realistically looks like she could be Logan's child, I think it's in the eyes and shape of the face.

Yup spot on. She literally shivved him at the end.

@@smtiewul he would have done the same to her

Thank you! I find it interesting how easy people pile on Shiv, and extoll the terribleness of the males, as just 'brilliance' when in fact, she has to play both vulnerable, and emotionally 'CARING' not just emotional because she is hurt personally, which is all we see of the rest of the males around her. She is the most intelligent, and has friends from the past, which are not played out, but shown in ways to cut the time down. The boys? Not so much. She has ZERO female role models, because Logan made sure that wasn't available to her. People can't see, and in a world that is extolling the virtues of 'no virtue' as in 'GREED' where that gets Kendall a round of applause in a 'church service'. Shiv asks about how her father really was, example, her asking Karl and Frank: "What was he really like?" What other sibling ever even cared, except when Ken asks Frank, but for Kendall...what did Frank think Logan thought about KEN.

Is Logan capable of having a favorite for more than a few moments? I think he gets that Shiv is most like himself and she's the one he probably dislikes the least.

How does she have the hardest role?

@@GloriaSangrealcan we just agree that every Roy sucks

Shiv is the worst. Horrible person.

also, i thought shiv was the middle child after kendall and roman was the youngest

@@rebeccagibbs4128 bc Roman acts like a child 90% of the time, and yet he's still taken more seriously than Shiv.

Amen!!!

THIS!!!!!

Thank you!! Finally, someone sees it. I've been binge-watching the seasons again looking for Easter eggs, but what struck me is how rarely she's the 1st to break rank. Almost always she gets screwed over 1st. The few rare times when she's 1st came from her reading a situation/dynamic correctly.

Hello. I’m here as a fellow human to acknowledge that Logan has, as we know, passed on. Logan was a man. Also, Logan was the CEO of the Waystar company for 50 years. And when a man dies, it is sad. All of us will die one day. In this case, it is Logan who has done so. Logan was alive for 81 years. But no more. Now he is dead. Logan’s wife was Marcia. They were married for an undisclosed amount of years. Now she is sad.

Those are made up rumors. In the series is obvious Roman is the youngest.

​@@usagi_tNo, it is confirmed that Shiv is the youngest child on the family and Roman is the youngest boy. It's just because Roman is mostly too chill and more laidback while Shiv is always being serious since she used to work at politic before

Yeah, this is called misogyny lol

@@miseendriste6337 No, its not. Rome actually thinks its about the family, even though he dropped the ball. Ken wants it all for himself and almost has the competency to achieve it, Shive wants it all but has none of the competency to achieve it. At the end of it she just isnt a likeable person and itll tank her no matter what. She couldve easily bribed Greg last episode for his silence but no she took the weird agro move and killed her chances. Awful instincts compared to Ken/Rome. And no, just because she isnt suited for the job doesnt make it misogyny lol, you probably blame all your shortcomings on misogyny.

@@miseendriste6337 yep Shiv can exhibit the exact same behavior as her brothers and she's maligned for it while her brothers get a pass. Misogyny runs deep in many fandoms.

Yep. And somehow people also miss the very obvious fact that it was Kendall and Rome who betrayed Shiv first, not the other way around, by trying to tank the deal and breaking their promise that them being CEOs was only temporary and they’d be leading PGN together in no time. Shiv simply answered. Coldly and ruthlessly but it was reaction not action. They’re all just as bad and just as disloyal as each other, Roman included. He was only truly loyal to his father.

@@dmaria682 Kendal came forward and was honest with Shiv about his intentions, even left space for her to admit the same and all she did was hug him and call him a good person lol. Trying to pin the hate against her as mysogyny when the show makes her so purposefully hateable (mainly via her treatment of Tom) is stupid and just grasping at straws.

It’ll be hilarious if Matsson names Greg CEO

oo shit yeah, they even went partying too, that would be epic

​@@kidhalloween8570someone he can control and would be happy with just the title and social clout makes a lot of sense

You think?

@@kidhalloween8570 I genuinely think that will happen

Shiv may not have the experience or knowledge, but I still wonder why Logan kept Tom around. There has to be more of a reason than Tom loves Shiv.

@@annkey4091 Tom was a tool that just wanted to please, which is easy to use. Shiv wanted top seat and didnt have any drive because she just expects it to be handed to her with no demonstration of her value. Harder to use.

@@annkey4091 Well, I get that Tom at the minimum level of experience required for the positions he's held. He also seems to know how to run part of the organization. People don't say that he's bad at his job or he doesn't know what he's doing. They just say that the only reason he got the positions he did are because of who he's dating/married to...which is true.

@@dragonhero14 Isn't being married to the right person sometimes enough? Truth is that Tom has volunteered to take a hit and has been taking hits since he married into the family, I guess that there are material tradeoffs.

@@annkey4091 I agree. That was the part of the point I was making. Tom is capable of doing the job. But I think that it's not what he wants. Especially seeing him in the episodes after Logan's death. He's managing the job, but is also suffering. Part of this is due to the siblings fighting, but a lot also has to due with the big shoes Logan left. He's had to step up significantly to keep day to day operations running as expected. I would be shocked if he either becomes the CEO, or just decides to leave it all behind him and walk away. Remember, he offered that to Shiv in Season 1.

I agree, it's a lovely name.

when Tom says it, I swoon

How is that pronounced

Shiobhan = Shiv-on

I love it when Logan says her name

They all have something of Logan in them.

You nailed it. I keep having so many arguments about this so it's great to see someone else pointing out what should be so clear to everyone else. The writers couldn't have made it any clearer without actually coming out and saying it

She would’ve been a great CEO if only she fucking learned anything at all about that company. She was always an afterthought because she never put the work in. They say several times how she’s the most unprepared. Because she purposely stayed away from the business she never learned the ropes like Kendall and Roman did. Logan even gave her a clear path on what she had to do and she didn’t like it because it was too long for her. That’s when Logan realised she wasn’t a good fit either, when she wasn’t willing to do her due time with all the grown ups - Frank, Gerri, himself, etc, to learn the business. I think this is what annoys me the most about this character and why she’s my least favorite. They are all terrible people. But the other two were at least involved in the company somewhat. Shiv just comes outta nowhere and expects to be given the keys to the kingdom immediately. In a world full of entitled people, she manages to outdo everyone.

​@@Emy-fv5ny Yeah, Kendall has the desire (and more experience than his siblings) but lacks that cutting edge. Trying to be a killer is not the same as being one. Roman has the instincts but has no spine or discipline. Shiv has the strategy but none of the experience where necessary. Rhea summed it up neatly back in s2. Ken has all the shots but doesn't know when to play them, Roman could actually be good but nowhere near now & Shiv thinks she's smarter than she is (similar to Cersei Lannister in ASOIAF).

​@@SebisajiminstanExactly, Shiv isn't necessarily extra detestable for wanting something she didn't earn. She's extra detestable because she *feels* entitled to something she didn't put the work in for, which is far worse. Logan laid out a clear plan for her to be prepared and she rejected it (even if it wasn't real, going thru it would've made her more credible). Then she has the gall to feel demeaned when no one respects her. It's bad to be guilty yet it's worse to thereafter insist on innocence which is what Shiv does in the business and with her brothers and especially with Tom when he calls her out.

Its not about gender. Even Gerri, Karolina and Rhea - the three biggest female heavyweights on the show, all acknowledge that Shiv is not cut out to be a boss. She avoids training, she avoids tough decisions, she avoids day-to-day decisions and any time she senses pressure she runs to check what "her other options are", which is a running theme throughout the entire series. Notice how every time things got hot for the family, at least ONE person questions Shiv to see if she's working with the other side or is even interested in the play. One of many plot devices the writers use to show you Shiv is the weakest of the 4 siblings.

Facts!

This whole family is a nest of vipers 🤢

That's so me! I've never seen this show, yet I feel so identified with that whole comment about this fictional character.

"She wants all benefits and no risk." - THIS. THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE.

yeup

She is the definition of "Talk to Talk but not Walk to Walk"

Just an FYI, it's "shiv", short for Siobhan, a Celtic name often pronounced "shi-VAHN".

@@TheArborphiliac And it can also mean an improvised knife!

@@Elitist20 definitely, a knife or a wedge driven between things. I do not think that was accidental.

She's the biggest coward of the show. Technically a bigger coward than Greg or Tom. Rhea even says at one point that Shiv is not as smart as she thinks. Gerri and Karolina if you watch closely never treat her as a much as a heavyweight or acknowledge her as part of the inner circle the way they do with Kendal and Roman. In the end Shiv is a rich brat who wants to be the boss without putting in the dirty work. The first big sign of this is the way the lashes out at Logan anytime he wants to put her into training or management courses, classes etc. Anytime anyone on the show suggests to Shiv that she "learn the ropes" so to speak she gets inpatient and defensive. Why? She wants to be the boss NOW NOW NOW, like a child.

​@@iamcase1245Shiv is the definition of Girl Boss, Gaslight and Gatekeeper. Even Marcia told her right in her face that she is a spoiled c*** on her wedding. Tom even has enough with her shits.

I don't think they will end the series with the siblings arguing and clashing. I think they will reconcile at the end because they still love each other little bit

@@muhammadabozyied834 I think the exact opposite, maybe one will take over or maybe no one will but either way I think these people are too far gone in the succession war and loving eachother is no longer gonna happen.

@@muhammadabozyied834 any other show, I would agree, but not this one. More likely, they will all fall from grace and Greg will be the new top dog.

@@muhammadabozyied834 not sure. That's too clean an ending for the writers....

@Louis XVI but you can't agnore that they helped each other building a new company and at the beginning of this season they bought pierce and defeated their father whom they stood together through his funeral and grave

Agreed. Mencken will veto Shiv and Mattsson will veto Ken and Rome and an outsider will get it. Although it really feels like Kendall is gonna get it right this time. The underlined "Kendall LOGAN Roy" in the episode 4 seemed very meaningful.

Greg! Greg! Greg!

@@marcushertz4434 Where in the episode did you see Kendall LOGAN underlined? Thank you.

@@BbGun-lw5vi On the peace of paper that Logan wrote saying he wanted Kendall to succed he included his middle name "Logan". Edit: Just realised that was not the last episode, but episode 4. Really felt more recent for some reason.

@@marcushertz4434 Oh, yes. I remember that.

Can't make a shivlette without polyamorous seggs

I have been wondering about Tom since he signed his prenup even though his Mother told him that the arrangement was "barbaric." Does the Logistics folder that Tom asked Gregg to destroy have any importance? Guess we will find out!

Tom was just too exhausted again, and that made me think he’s been snorting a ton of coke. He was really out of it.

Now that would be a finally twist of the knife to see Tom come out on top.

i dont think Tom wants to really come to terms with Logans death because he put all his eggs in logans casket, er basket. I think Shivs pregnancy is toms only way now and its a damn shame he said what he said to shiv ina cruel moment because i dont think she wil ever be able to move past that with tom.

Tom will be the American CEO and all the siblings will be cut out when it is sold.

I was glad to see her finally accept her place and stop trying to "win" in the end... she might find some real happiness & possibly love now that Tom is in the power position within their relationship. Kendall not winning was definitely a major factor but the phone call where Tom finally stood up for himself in a real sense about not being sure he wanted to be in relationship with her anymore is overlooked in all these breakdowns. He threatened it before & they had that blowout fight where they said the horrific shit about each other... but that phone call with Shiv reaching out to him finally able to be vulnerable for once cause they had already said the worst things that could be said & Tom rebuffing her was a profound moment.

The worst person in any series is the person who wants to be the boss without putting in the work and being on the front lines. Its sad writers tend to make these characters female but the human brain hates people who want to lead without earning their position. In the Sopranos it was Carmela, in Breaking Bad it was Skylar, in Mindhunters it was Wendy and in Succession it was Shiv. Even Greg and Tom for the cowards and snakes that they are at least jumped into the fire.

​@@iamcase1245the real strong female character was Gerri all along. Invisible yet competent and strong. She was also a killer.

Agreed. Gerri and Karolina were two of the better people on the series, regardless of being women they're just solid competitors that did what they had to in order to push the company ahead. @@clarabp2613

roman and shiv flip flopped for me. i thought shiv was decent and rome was awful, and by the end i understood roman and couldn’t stand anything shiv did.

The closest friend that Shiv have is either her lawyer friend in Season 3 whom later getting hired by Kendall but then she quits because Kendall is being petty and childish and also girl Sandi. But, girl Sandi is mostly busy taking care of her sick dad and she's basically the opposite side of Shiv, being polite, calm, professional and also still respect her dad, even she feels bad to leave him in any seconds. The closest person that Roman can befriend is either the guy on Brighstar's management training, the Aljerbanian guy and also Jared Mecken. He also succesfully convinced his siblings to pick Mecken as the new president only for Mecken to ignore him at Logan's house. There is a clue that Roman might have a crush to Mecken but Mecken is married as you see his wife and kid on his victory speech. Connor also has a friend who is Maxim Pierce who is also weird and wacky like him and still loyal to him until season finale. Shiv and Roman are too unstable, they both can't even befriend at least one people genuinely.

Yes thank you for commenting as well. I was getting worried that I was alone drowning in a sea full of superficialities. Even in this video’s comment section we still see people missing the point and hating Shiv for reasons they themselves don’t understand.

Just googled it - what are you talking about?: Heteronormativity is what makes heterosexuality seem coherent, natural and privileged. It involves the assumption that everyone is 'naturally' heterosexual, and that heterosexuality is an ideal, superior to homosexuality or bisexuality.

Shiv is the worst Roy, and it has nothing to do with her being a woman.

@@bensmyth450 naw. the worst Roy is Kendall and it has nothing to do with him being a man.

@@jimmyramos1989 Catchy comeback but unfortunately it doesn’t make any sense

Exactly, they literally humiliated him the night before only to then rug pull him. Both Roman and Shiv could literally have held the fact that they got him the CEO role over his head for the rest of his life. All because she just couldn’t stomach him being the CEO. I’ve never hated a fictional character more.

I thought Roman was the youngest too, he just exudes youngest sibling energy

I also for the longest time just assumed that Roman was the youngest because he acts most like the stereotypical youngest sibling, but I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed that shiv is the youngest child.

Also, Shiv is somehow taller than Roman since they were kids if you look at the opening until adulthood. Shiv is mostly act mature than Roman most of the time.

..that applies to all of them

@@whatever3145 Nah. Kendall has had significant business experience for years prior to the show’s start, just never proved he was a capable leader. Roman as well, but to a lesser degree. It’s the whole reason as to why Kendall felt slighted in the first season, first episode in fact: he thought he had earned it, but he was nowhere near ready to take the reigns. Shiv has only ever been invested in her political aspirations, despite holding beliefs in direct contrast to her father’s. This is the logical fallacy of Shiv. She has no experience at Waystar, unlike her brothers.

@@whatever3145 so true.

@@whatever3145 Not really. While the show hasn't really emphasized this in later seasons, in earlier parts, Kendall's education and experience was often mentioned, and more importantly, shown. He actually understands business metrics, how business works and is the only one shown to actively work with numbers. That is because he's the only one who actually is competent enough. Sure, Kendall has coasted with the name to some degree, but he has competency to him. Take for example the episode, where the fate of Vaulter is decided. Roman is too incompetent to actually delve into KPI's, but Kendall is showed working and reading them. That scene is meant to highlight the difference in their experience and skill.

How is Roman more qualified than Shiv? Agree on Kendall. But Roman looks like he can't even run a shop let alone a media empire. The guy is a walking PR disaster and impulsive. Fires people with second thought, sends dick pics to directors. The company will go bankrupt under him. Roman is the least qualified by far.

exactly, AND Kendall and Roman were taught to compete. THe only common cause is pleasing Daddy

Just like Skyler White, Shiv is now getting hated because she ruined the "fun" of patriarchal power fantasy. That's why it's easier for the (male) audience to hate her while siding with Kendall, Rome, Tom and Greg even though they are doing the same thing. I mean, the one who made this video is also a guy.

@@nont18411 but fundamentally she is a bad person and I think the reason she is disliked more than Roman or Kendall is because of the other side we see to her when it comes to Tom. She’s a toxic person in business and outside of it, whereas Roman’s driving force throughout the show was having at least some family dynamic (hence why he felt apprehensive to betray Logan and to leave Kendall at his darkest moments). Kendall is a lot less likeable this season as he seems to have become just a mini Logan, but in previous seasons the viewer felt his struggle between morals and power, even somewhat in this season. Kendall was the antihero of sorts, until Logan died. Shiv however, doesn’t have these redeeming qualities at all, the only thing she has going for her is having at least some moral views on democracy and progression, but this is undermined by the fact that she just goes for whichever option benefits her the most. Skyler was actually a good person, put in an extremely difficult circumstance, and made bad choices because of it. In BB, I think the viewer is less inclined to like Skyler because Walt is the main focus of the series (I always find that no matter how bad a protagonist is in a series I always feel that maybe they can be redeemed, and hold onto that until the end, sadly I don’t think I could say Walt really redeemed himself, even though he tried). Skyler seems to always be holding Walt back, even though she’s in the right, but because she isn’t as well established as a character as Walt is, and because she does stuff with Ted before she even knew about the meth, it’s much harder for the viewer to be rooting for her. Ultimately it has nothing to do with the patriarchy, there are plenty of shows where a woman is the protagonist and I come to hate some of the male side characters. I’m sure that many of us, myself included, have found ourselves liking Shiv at points in the show, more so than any other character, but then she does something absolutely horrible and I hate her again. That’s what makes a show like this so good! I’ve found that with all of the characters (except maybe Logan he’s always been pretty unlikeable).

@@F1nn1810 Kendall is a drug addict, absent father and a controlling, abusive ex-husband to Ava. Roman is an almost-Joker character who humilliates and abuses others using his wealth and power - hence the tore check in a poor kid's face and the sexual harrassment of Gerri. Therefore, they are toxic in business and outside just as Shiv is - why is her abuse of the petty parasite social climber husband unforgivable but Kendall's and Roman's aren't even mentioned? Why is she judged more harshly by the spectators? I spent all 4 seasons hating and loving the siblings equally, and I can't see how could it be otherwise.

@@CavalliAna firstly, I think being a drug addict doesn’t make you an inherently bad person- it just makes you a troubled individual. Sure, the two can go hand in hand, but I think ultimately Kendall’s drug abuse in earlier seasons stems from his deep dissatisfaction with his life; a fractured relationship with his father and his siblings, and ultimately his disconnect from his ex wife and daughter. His attempts to be a better father in earlier seasons fall flat because of his drug addiction, Rava doesn’t think that he’s stable enough to get back with her or be a good father, which is true, but it doesn’t make him evil, it just highlights that he’s a deeply flawed individual that doesn’t know how to cope with his emotions. I think there’s a side to Kendall, up to the end of season 3, that is relatable and we are rooting for him to come out on top then due to his personal struggles building up to that season 3 climax. I agree with you that Roman is quite frankly a horrible person, and his actions are completely irredeemable, especially nearing the end of the show, but I would like to point out that Gerry and Roman’s weird sexual relationship wasn’t just sexual harassment from Roman, it definitely went both ways for a while until Roman pushed it too far. He is an incredibly odd character, and it’s not very clear who or what he is throughout the show; sometimes he’s a caring sibling/son who just wants a loving relationship with those around him, and other times he’s a complete irredeemable monster, doing things that give the show comic relief, but are just frankly awful. Shiv is much more like Roman in that sense throughout the series; at times, she was my favourite character, showing the highest moral compass, drive and care, especially towards Kendall, out of anyone. But this is all completely undermined when you realise that she *always* has an agenda of her own and is planning on double crossing at some point. She only wants what’s best for her even if it means splitting apart the family time after time. And I don’t believe that any of the siblings deserved the company at the end, especially after Ken’s breakdown, but she only took that from Kendall out of the jealousy we’ve seen throughout. It’s like I said before, there are times when Shiv is the most likeable character out of all of them, but it’s very hard to keep liking her when all she does is betray, lie and cheat when it’s of even the slightest convenience to her, and in my opinion, that’s what makes her the least likeable. Kendall is broken, immature and unable to deal with his emotions in a healthy way. Roman is sick and twisted but ultimately what the show needed for comic relief; you never like him per say but he is downright hilarious. Shiv is broken by being looked down upon for being a woman, and has the highest moral compass, but what are morals when it’s easier just to not stick by them whenever it’s easiest, or most convenient? Shiv’s combination of Kendall’s worst aspects with her natural distrust of everyone around her and tendency to betray makes her the least likeable out of the 3 siblings.