Super 8 developing in a Lomo Spiral

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6 жыл бұрын

Step by step instructions on how to load a Lomo spiral and use it to process Black and White super 8 at home.
This film was processed in a Lomo UPB-1 developing tank, capacity 10m of 8mm or 16mm film. Super 8 carts of regular 15m (50ft) length will have to be split and done in 2 lots.
Formulae for processing liquids: (1L) All liquids used at room temperature (about 20 C)
1st and 2nd Developer: Caffenol CM
1L water (warm for mixing, use at room temp.)
54g washing soda
16g vitamin C
40g coffee
Bleach (A)
500ml water
2g potassium permanganate
Bleach (B)
500ml water
27g Sodium Bisulphate
(mix A and B before use)
Clearing bath
1L water
30g Sodum Metabisulphite
Fixer
800ml water
200ml Ilford rapid fixer.
Instructions
Process
Prewash 2mins
1st Developer 20mins
Wash 2mins
Bleach 3mins
Wash 2mins
Clearing bath 2mins
Re-exposure to light
2nd Developer 15mins
Wash 2mins
Fixer 10mns
Wash
Final rinse
Use distilled water with drop of
fairy liquid for final rinse
Hang up to dry, spool and project!
Please subscribe for more super 8 and how-to videos.

Пікірлер: 149

@Emchococat 5 жыл бұрын

I love your dry humor! I was laughing a lot watching this but at the same time learned a lot! Thanks mate!

@Mr.FranciscoJesusAldana 3 жыл бұрын

Wonderful! Thanks for teaching & doing!

@JackMoran_76 6 жыл бұрын

Hey man cheers for putting all these up, I've been looking to run a roll of r100 through my grandma's old Bolex BL8. I've done a ton of black and white 35mm film developing but never any reversal stuff. Keen to give a roll a try! But yeah massive thanks for throwing these up, highly appreciated!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

Jack Moran You're welcome! I should add that watch out how long the R100 is in the permanganate bleach. Any more than 3 minutes and the emulsion starts to peel off! Of course there's a ton of other developers and bleaches but this combo is working for me (used Ilford LC29 developer successfully too). Good luck!

@a4grtu 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your video! Helped me a lot!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

Great! Just remember to thread the spiral with the sprocket holes facing down (unlike what my dumb ass was saying in the video!)

@ReturnoftheJed 6 жыл бұрын

@Zero Budget Film School Dude I love your videos, you are a next level hack (and I mean that as a sincere compliment) your videos inspired me to do some home developing myself with 8mm footage. I used a 5 reel developing tank like you did in your previous videos and just stuffed my super 8 footage inside. I haven't tried anything with expired footage and caffenol quite just yet but plan to in the future! I used C14 developer on some new canon Vision 3 film and it worked great! (or as well as can be expected..). keep up the superb work! always looking forward to seeing more videos from you!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

Jed Irvine Thanks mate! You're already ahead of me with the colour developing (I assume you meant C41). Going to give that a try later. If you have any scans I'd love to see how it came out.

@Film2Digital 4 жыл бұрын

Cool! Thanks for sharing this!

@jasonritter2984 3 жыл бұрын

this is amazing, got me motivated to do the same!

@JonathanHancock 5 жыл бұрын

Just tried the bucket method after 4 years of hoping the spiral groove would work for 16mm b&w d-76. I like the tanks the variety of methods people have. For example to load developer I turn out the lights and pour it with an open lid. Making a faster dev time.

@QARIB_JEWELRY Жыл бұрын

Awesome worke👌

@69waveydavey 6 жыл бұрын

I bought a lomo tank last year but didn't realise there were 2 sizes 30 feet and 50 feet. Mine was the 30 feet so sold it on as with all that hassle I didn't want to do it twice. Still haven't got time to do anything though, I shot some rolls last year and am going to make an effort this year. Thanks for the encouragement.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

My tank's 30 feet too, but I bought it knowing I'd have to do my super 8's in two goes. As it happens, doing it in 2 goes, while time consuming, does give you a chance to check the process is working and make any tweaks. For instance, I discovered I wasn't getting enough light to the bottom of the film and addressed the problem on the second run.

@69waveydavey 6 жыл бұрын

You must have seen the German guy's videos he's clinical and really well set up, I have this fantasy in my head I will be set up like him but I think the reality will be different, I will have to make more time in my life to get back into it. Your videos are spurring me on.

@Slava-kn3jf2hy7g Жыл бұрын

Благодарю за классное видео !Сам когда то снимал .И сам проявлял кинопленку на 8 супер .Дома храню кинокамеры Кварц 8ХР супер .Кинопроектор Русь 8 супер Кинопленки на бобинах.И бачки для проявки . Как напоминание о счастливых днях !О молодости !(Есть не проявленная кинопленка )

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Жыл бұрын

пожалуйста!

@Ni5ei 10 ай бұрын

Just received mine today (unfortunately also the 10 meter version but for a reasonable price). First thing I've done is remove the top hose and plug the hole because I really prefer using the center hole. The 15 meter tank also has just 1 hose at the bottom. The only thing it could be useful for is if you connect the top hose to your tap for rinsing.

@dejavukrewe 5 жыл бұрын

This shit made me chuckle

@Stozubw 3 жыл бұрын

incorrectly charged, need perforation downward, emulsion outward. Therefore, on the right, there is a black stripe

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

Yes I corrected that with an onscreen note

@antonioponcianowongwesche185 5 жыл бұрын

Hi. Very interesting this process. I knew about Caffenol, but I did not know that the reversal process could be done. I see that the bleaching bath does not use sulfuric acid, but sodium bisulfite. This surprises me. I want to try to do what you did, but confirm if the steps of the process are right. Greetings, Antonio.

@MichaelCarter 6 жыл бұрын

Put the sprocket holes in the grooves.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

Michael Carter yes you're right. Will do that next time.

@brucefisher9888 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks really helpful and also made me laugh a lot. Thanks for sharing.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

Cool! Did you see the correction about putting the film in with the sprocket holes down?

@brucefisher9888 3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Yes hopefully just got myself a tank coming from ebay think it's the 30ft version but still better than nothing. I'll have to look to see ifvyiubjave a video on splicing 😂

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

@@brucefisher9888 I love using the smaller Lomo! It's perfect for standard 8 and for fooling around with shorter strips of super 8. Get yourself a reloadable cartridge and you're all set to develop part of a roll before you finished shooting it. That's really useful for making sure your exposure etc are good before you finish the roll in the reloadable.

@brucefisher9888 3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Ah OK. Do you have a link to where I can get a re loadable super 8 cassette? No doubt you have a video on how to load one 😂. Is it possible to get bulk super 8 film?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

@@brucefisher9888 I get my reloadable carts from eBay, a seller called cubepaul in Russia. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-8-reloadable-cartridge-Kaccema-KS-8-for-camera-Quarz-Canon-Beaulieu-/143187149182?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

@tylernajera1318 5 жыл бұрын

So I'm supposed to do this in complete darkness?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

As dark as a black cat's tuchis on a moonless night.

@thenewbgamer6416 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, unless you want a completely black video on you film.

@juliamartos644 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your exhaustive work and inspirational videos. I am wondering if the bleach and the clearing bath can be thrown through the sink or it should be treated as the fixer, being thrown in a proper waste tank. (Although I guess I can imagine the answer). Greetings from Spain!!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

Well the bleach and clearing bath both contain substances used in food production or sterilisation and should be OK to put down the sink with plenty of water to dilute/flush it away. Just don't mix the two or dump them together. When mixed they produce dangerous gases.

@juliamartos644 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Good to know! Thank you very much!!!!

@therestorationofdrwho1865 5 жыл бұрын

This is the first time I’ve ever seen your face and I expected differently lol.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

Ha yes I do make the odd appearance in my videos (often on super 8) I don't do it much because my incredible good looks distract from the matter at hand.

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

Can the film bleaching solution be used several times or one shot, and how is it drained after the end of the work? Is it dumped in the bathroom sink to the drain? Or is there another place to spend it?!

@ColHogan-zg2pc Жыл бұрын

6:45 killed me 😂

@petepictures 5 жыл бұрын

May I comment on this, since I have years of using this UPB tank. I would not wind the exposed film into a spool, but rather directly from the cassette onto the spiral, thus you have the sprockets down and the emulsion outwards. It works super , you will not have the black undeveloped thing on the right side.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

I can't go straight from the cartridge because it would break the one-way turning feature of the bobbin that winds the film up. As I use re-usable cartridges I don't want to break them. Also, the film coming out of a disposable cartridge has too much drag on it to flow freely out of the cart and onto the spiral. You're right about the holes down, emulsion out (I made a correction to this film). I no longer have the dark stripe!

@petepictures 5 жыл бұрын

I took out the small part of blocking the wind back, the cassettes still work fine. and you can use it of overlap if you have the camera which does it.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

@@petepictures funny you should mention that, I've just shot a split screen film where I wound the film back and ran it through again three times! I'm developing it this week and I can't wait to see how it comes out. That will be my next upload.

@RotarySMP 3 жыл бұрын

"some next level shit" :)

@massimilianomattei4879 Ай бұрын

Hello. Pay attention: It should be better place film with sprocket holes down side to avoid spiral damages exposed parts of film.

@TheNekbes 6 жыл бұрын

Thinking to develope 16mm film, which is expired in 1990, how do you think do i need more first develope time, or it should work with same time like yours, 20 min?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

Depends on the film and how light it was when you exposed it, but basically yes, if you're doing negative only and want to push it in Caffenol, you should leave it in for at least 30 minutes. If you shot it in low light, go for 45 minutes. If you're doing reversal, remember that the everything developed in the first developer gets bleached out, so the shorter the time in the FD, the darker your end result.

@danielvaldezpuertos8443 5 жыл бұрын

What kind of film did you use? It's a Kodakcrome 40???

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

In this video it was Fomapan R100. Not expired.

@massimilianomattei4879 Ай бұрын

Hello. Your frame is half black and damaged on right side for this reason: load up your film with sprocket hole down side in the spiral.

@daniilandrianov1548 5 жыл бұрын

How likely for 8mm film to fit and actually develop in developing tank of 260 ml? If I have 3 developing tanks of 35mm, do you think it would be okay if I cut 15 metres in half to develop and than watch them through the projector?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

Hi there. A 260ml tank is way too small for 15m of super 8. The developer will not reach all parts of the film because the film will be squeezed against itself. You could get maybe 5 metres into such a 35mm tank if you took the spiral out. My advice is to get a 3-4 roll sized tank and bunch up your film into that, or a bigger tank or a proper lomo tank. I demonstrate the use of the long tank in previous films.

@Swimmadd Жыл бұрын

What is the drying device called and would you recommend it? Trying to find an efficient way to dry my super 8 when i develop it

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Жыл бұрын

I think if you Google 'rotary dryer' you can find the device some people use (don't have one myself) for a while I used a hanging rack but I now use a pair of cupboard organiser hangers with clips on.

@koltinn 2 жыл бұрын

Have you tried the adox scala developing chemicals?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

I've used Adox Rodinal if that counts. It's brilliant stuff, will develop anything (b&w)

@dreamshiver 10 ай бұрын

Going through the same process with the same tank rn. Any tips about approximate time of the 2nd exposure before the 2nd development? Thanks in advance

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 10 ай бұрын

I'd do that but the only place I can get a blackout is down the cellar and it's pretty rank down there!

@goatmen7996 3 жыл бұрын

do you have to developing version 3 kodak 50D/7203 super 8 film before scanning it

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, you have to develop it or send it to a lab. I develop and then scan on a Wolverine.

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

Hello, how often should I be exposed to the light, is it once or twice, and how long should I be exposed to each time? Thank you.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

I do about 2 mins each side of the spiral.

@tylernajera1318 5 жыл бұрын

What do you think would turn up if I did this with new black and white kodak super 8 film?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 5 жыл бұрын

It would probably look fine. I did some Tri-X last year and it looked OK but a bit blue tinted because it was old stock. I advise always doing a test strip when working with a stock you haven't used before, so you can gauge the best development time.

@entity9742 3 жыл бұрын

So i tried my first hand at some ektachrome type G filme and the emulsion lifted after the first dev of hc-110b is this just a sign that hc-110 isn't compatible with the film or is the film too old to process? My temp on the hc-110 was about 70-80°f

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if it was the chemistry that lifted the emulsion but it's more likely the temperature of your developer. Anything above 24C/75F will strip the emulsion of Ektachrome G , or Ektachrome 160A for that matter.

@entity9742 3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool ok so next time ill try a small strip but if it keeps lifting the emulsion then is it just bad film?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

@@entity9742 Well, if the Ektachrome G was stored somewhere hot between when it was manufactured and now, it's possible the emulsion was damaged, but if you put a strip into sub-24C temps and it still strips the emulsion I think the hc-110 is more likely to be the issue. If you have another developer like Caffenol it would be worth trying a test on that too. Try not to wipe the emulsion side of the film when the emulsion is wet because it can be fragile before it dries.

@entity9742 3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool i dont have access to caffenol but i do have ilfosol 3 b&w developer would that work?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

@@entity9742 It might... What you need to do is try a test trip at different development times. In my experience almost every developer can bring out a B&W or monochrome image, it's all a matter of getting the timings right. Of course if the film is age-fogged or you didn't give it enough light in the first place you won't get an image whatever you develop it in. Check out my film about doing a sensitivity check on expired film: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fdCJZLWf1L--ioE.html

@HELLHAMMERHANDHIX 6 жыл бұрын

I wonder if it could be loosely wound on a reel to reel recorder reel ???....and...FIRST COMMENT !!!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't bother, even loosely wound it would be impossible to prevent the film sticking to itself and stopping the developing fluids reaching it. You'd have more luck stuffing the super 8 in a 35mm tank in a bundle (as I have done many times!)

@HELLHAMMERHANDHIX 6 жыл бұрын

Zero Budget Film School ...just asking matey...good idea though eh !!!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 6 жыл бұрын

Nic White Very original hack, it has to be said. Never would have considered it myself!

@betaplumbing33 9 ай бұрын

Hi , how long do you leave the film in bleach for? and how long do you leave in the second developer?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 9 ай бұрын

4 minutes bleach, 10 minutes second dev.

@betaplumbing33 9 ай бұрын

Thank you so very much I really appreciate it your videos are great and very helpful . @@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

Does this process with its materials mentioned in the video succeed in developing a 35mm and 16mm moving film and give good results, or not? I am waiting for your reply. Thank you.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

Whatever works for super 8 will work for the same stock in 16mm or 35mm.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@abohosamabohosam4178 Oh wow that's about fifteen questions looks like I've got my homework for tonight. Check back later I might have some more detailed answers but for one YES there will be damage when loading it like this, you need to do it in complete darkness (not red light) I'm just demonstrating it in the light so you can see what I'm doing.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

Hey where did the rest of the questions go?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@abohosamabohosam4178 no really I'm fine answering questions it's just one at a time is best to keep it simple.

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Bleach (A) 500 ml water 2 g potassium permanganate Bleach (B) 500 ml of water 27 g of sodium bisulfate (Mix A and B before use) 1- After mixing (A) in a bowl with water, we mix (B) with water in another bowl, and after finishing we mix A and B in a uniform bowl for all So we have 1000 ml, is this correct? 2- If we only want to make the film only negative without a positive reflection, we only use caffeinol, washing and fixative like this? 3- Can a powdered fixer be used instead of a liquid, and how many grams are with water? Thank you

@teddewberry9324 3 жыл бұрын

There has to be a way to lessen the dust particles.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

I've found that a lot of what looks like dust is actually silver particles that get stuck to the emulsion during the bleach stage. The results can be much improved if you don't agitate at all while the spiral is in the bleach, just open the lid and carefully lift the spiral out once the film is bleached, then throw out the bleach and dip the spiral into the clearing bath and then rinse really well. You can skip the clearing bath if you want and just rinse, but I like how it stops the bleach dead and the picture looks cleaner as a result.

@teddewberry9324 3 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Good insight. Im getting ready to do this myself. Have you heard of anyone having success with developing reversal film in the Morse tank?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

@@teddewberry9324 personally I don't know anyone who has developed reversal in a Morse tank. If you can empty and refill with bleach after the first development stage it is theoretically possible, but I'm no expert on the Morse.

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

Are the (bleaching materials) you have in the video useful for whitening 16mm or 35mm films of a positive type Fomapan? wait for reply thanks

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, Fomapan R100 can be bleached the same way, whether it is 8mm, 16mm or 35mm. Just make sure you don't leave it in the bleach too long (3 minutes usually does it for me)

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 1- Does this mean that the film of the type (positive Fomapan) does not need any developed solution! Only bleaching is done immediately after that, the rest of the process is completed to the end. This is the meaning?! 2- I have an old 16mm CINE KODAK MODEL BB JUNIOR camera and it works, what do you think of this type? I will try it with a 16mm film, I may use a negative with the development of caffeinol. What do you think, what is the best film suitable for this camera, both positive and negative, and what do you recommend?thank you.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@abohosamabohosam4178 Of course Fomapan needs developing solution. For reversal development it goes : first Developer, bleach, light exposure, second developer, fixer, wash.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@abohosamabohosam4178 for the Kodak BB camera, you need double perf 16mm film (holes on both sides) for more about this camera, check out Michael Carter's channel: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/otyjnrSSvNTdiGw.html

@therestorationofdrwho1865 3 жыл бұрын

Would be handy if I didn’t have to sell my kidneys for one of them........

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

You can get them for £120 last I looked. I think the expense is worth it as long as you use it.

@snutssss 2 жыл бұрын

i tried it for 20 times on 16mm film with the exact same tank and film keeps pulling out. it jut not stays in the reels and moves in every direction

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

Are you sure you're using the correct spacers between the spiral and the top plate? If the film is escaping the spiral there may be too much space between the spiral plate and the top plate.

@snutssss 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool thanks for the answer! the problem turned out to be the amount of pressure i used to hold the film. too loose and it moves freely in the spiral, too tight and it jumps off the reel. took me a few dozens tries to even find out. haven't found out any commentary on this. guess i'm uniquely stupid.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@snutssss yeah it's a fine line you have to walk with getting the pressure right. My lomo has a slight dip or scratch 3/4 the way through and I always have to be super careful at that point or the film will jump off the spiral.

@flyingo Жыл бұрын

You’ll do better by placing the sprocket holes down in the spiral of the developing tank. Just a suggestion.

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Жыл бұрын

I know, and I already corrected that

@flyingo Жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool I’m sorry, I hadn’t seen the age of your video until after I commented. I am enjoying your channel! I just watched your video with Adrian Cousins about his developing Kodachrome in color again. Fascinating!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Жыл бұрын

@@flyingo Hey thanks for watching! I should do a new lomo video anyway, since I've learned more since that old film.

@flyingo Жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool I have yet to purchase a tank because I don’t like the idea of cutting my 100’ reels of 16mm film. So I’m holding out for one of the larger tanks with the 100’ capacity 🤞.

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

Hello, do you have information about this?! What does developer Rodinal 100+1 and 50+1 and 1+25 mean? For example, how many ml of water will be and how many ml of liquid solution. Please reply, thank you):

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

It's how much water you need to add per unit of rodinal, so 1+100 is 10ml Rodinal +1000ml water, and 1+25 is 40ml Rodinal per 1000ml water. The stronger the solution the less time it takes to develop. A litre of Rodinal will last you a loong time.

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool I mean, if the container capacity was 500 ml divided by 26, it would be 19 ml developer, so the water would be approximately 481 ml like this, is my calculation correct and going the right way?!

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@abohosamabohosam4178 close enough, it's 20ml not 19ml

@abohosamabohosam4178 2 жыл бұрын

@@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool Did you apply this 25+1 rule during the caffeinol developer process with your film in the Russian lomo container or did you apply another rule, how many ml is the total capacity of the lomo container, and what is the best chemical developer for a 16mm film with a length of 100ft, I want to experiment and learn, and maybe try caffeinol, thanks is yours,

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 2 жыл бұрын

@@abohosamabohosam4178 the length of the film makes no difference what developer you use, as long as there's enough developer to cover it in the lomo. 1L is enough to cover 50' (15m) of super 8. Your other questions I can't remember.

@LenaCourtney 3 жыл бұрын

Can I use night vision goggles to do this?

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

In theory you could, but you'd have to make sure there is no light whatsoever leaking out of the goggles, and that the goggles don't have a glowing LED on them anywhere. Also, you have to make sure the room you do it in is completely dark.

@koyaanisqatsi316 3 жыл бұрын

Night vision goggles are light amplifiers. No light = no see. Infrared light will work but does that effect the film? I don't know 🤷‍♂️

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 3 жыл бұрын

@@koyaanisqatsi316 It's the light from the view screens I'd find concerning. Even with no light to amplify they're still going to glow.

@Ni5ei 10 ай бұрын

Zero budget... Reloadable cartridge: around €30 incl. shipping. Lomo developing tank: around €175 plus shipping

@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool 10 ай бұрын

I can recommend getting two reloadable cartridges, it helps to lay one out, outside the changing bag to look at while you work on the other.