This podcast was tons of fun! I kinda came in unprepared so I hope I did good and maybe changed the opinions of some of your or taught you something new. Thanks for having me and I hope we can make more stuff together in the future!

I don't know why some people are hating on Freedo or saying he's out of place. He's a high enough level player and has a deeper understanding of the game than a lot of the community, and is creating content FOR US. So I for one, would like to thank SVB for putting this together. Also, everybody wish SVB a happy belated birthday! It was his birthday yesterday! Let's go duuuuuuudes!

We just need orisa to be in dive everybody gansta until the orisa in comms says "IM DIVING THE ZEN!!"

I remember playing 10hrs a day on tank and then going to sleep excited to play tank again the next day. These days it's hard to play 5 games in a row as tank, feel like if u don't play double shield or have a brig/bap u become a punching bag. It's not fun, I want to play literally any of the other tanks, but I can't lol

Who hurt you sweet Bogur? **strokes hair** Who hurt you? Bogur: Fugging double shield, man.

Thank you for bringing Freedo on SVB, a lot of people love to hate but he’s the non-vocal majority’s hero!

I really enjoy SVB being devil's advocate here and being a good host. The vocal minority was a great moment, really redirected the conversation and gave a perspective check

I'm sure a bunch of other main tank players will agree that a late Hog swap is because of inconsistent healing.

Small buff to speed boost, and buff Winston armor. We don’t need more damage or shields but initiation / movement problems are mostly what’s holding some of these tanks back.

Was duo queuing tank in Platinum at the height of the Hog/Zarya meta. I remember a game where the entire team turned on my friend and I because we weren’t using a shield. Even though we were dominating the game as Hog and Zarya, we were winning, the dps were getting picks and the supports weren’t being harassed. The entire team was screaming at us to go Rein. They just had no concept of how to play without a shield. Without a shield the team has no shape and people can’t position at all. But if I go Rein the game is awful for me, I cannot carry and the team will probably lose. Overwatch has issues that Blizzard seem to refuse to address season on season.

People in lower ranks play rein mostly because they feel like they have to Team will complain for not having a shield or will just suck without it in lower ranks And rein is the easiest shield hero to play there because he has the biggest shield I personally like playing sigma or hog and can do absolutely fine without a shield if needed, I love killing people even when olaying tanks Peak on tanks 3940, current 3400

I like that this is an ongoing series. I thought that we would only get one of these, and I was sad because I thought "oh the meta will change and half of this conversation will be pointless in a couple months." But I totally intend to keep watching these as they continue to come out.

In the metal ranks it’s hard to run meta tank comps because “teammates just wander off and do random things.” This touched me on a spiritual level.

Ok but that rein guide by freedo 🔥🔥🔥

4.2k and 4.4k SR are different cause at that level SR rises slow af. Resulting in 200 SR basically turning into 500 SR worth of skill lower down. GM is more then one rank, above masters ranked has at least 4-5 more levels of wildly growing skill.

"everyone had so much fun during the Genji meta" Wanna bet?

I was finally able to catch this live! I will never not listen to these I learn new things every time a new Debate comes out. Much love SVB and the guests!

IOSTUX video on positioning is what taught me about why to take high-ground

For Orisa in terms of risk/reward, maybe an interesting mechanic would be that her gun fed off of her shield as some sort of shared resource meter? Like your shots would be stronger if you sacrificed shield health? Also, this is neither here nor there, but I always thought they should give her a kick move (maybe it could replace her fortify and have all-directional knockback to protect her bunker). But why would you make a horse character with four hulking legs that couldn't kick people in the teeth?!

Imho, if we actually want to get overwatch to a better competitive place, we need, in this order: 1)Hero ban system 2) Map Choice system 3) Catch up Tanks and supports with more heroes

YEASSSS! YOU DID A SECOND ONE!!! I LOVE YOU SVB

The fact that there is NO dps in the game that is scared of a Rein or Winston coming towards them bc they can all delete them easily which is stupid like how are main tanks the least scary heroes in the tank role?!? Whereas they are scared of a hog sig zarya or ball. Personally I think it’s ok to buff reins shield bc he can’t do anything other than shield when he uses it whereas orisa and sig can use all their other abilities so reins shield should be much stronger and he needs the shatter and steadfast buffs. Winston could probably use a small armour buff so he doesn’t explode. But personally I still think dps need overall nerfs, and bap needs a revert on his ult and brigs repair pack should be removed or changed

Interesting but also a bit frustrating...like the prompt goes to "how do we address the knowledge gap" and then nobody even talked about it, it just went back into complaining about the problems of upper GM ladder. And then talking about how people don't play tank because the fun characters are weak? Didn't we literally just see stats showing that the "fun" tanks are still played by every other rank than GM, but people still don't play the role?

Happy birthday Flats! (and SVB too :P) Also... 31:13 "Just do something" and what that something would be? Still, fantastic debate! A very complex topic, and all guests had great points.

I remember a time around late 2018 early 2019 when people were complaining about D.va being meta for so long, someone said that they felt D.va was the gatekeeper of a lot of shitty metas Look where we are now

Woohoo!! Been waiting for the KZfaq upload cos I can’t catch these live, much love SVB

Bro I woke up at 3am and this podcast was playing 💀

22:15 That's exactly why i play Zarya since Season 2 and i studied her like some people do studies at university to get REALLY good.

Bogur reeeally was a good guy for this debate

When Flats went off about Echo that resonated with me. She made tank so much worse to play. If she'd been any other role, or if we'd had a character in one of the other roles instead of her, it would have helped at least a little.

I don't see how they're confused about knowledge gap. There's basically no game knowledge in the actual game. Based on the discourse, it's as if the hardcore playerbase knows more about the game than the developers based on the quality of information we get.

Bro I like me some Flats but I love me some Bogur

SVB you do a great job as moderator and periodically summing everything up. LOVE your content

Nice chat, guys. This Flats dude is hilarious.

Lots of potentially insightful changes that I personally agree would be great for the game but these issues are definitely most prevalent at the highest ranks. Some of the points regarding how "fresh/stale" a meta can be a bit lost when its coming from the tippy top of the playerbase grinding this game for hours on end. Again, I truly do understand that this is still an issue and I do wish Blizzard would be more proactive and aggressive with their patches (even at the cost of "perfect balance") but staleness is something you're gunna have to deal with when it's your livelihood revolves around the game. Thanks for the podcast as usual SVB! Looking forward to the next chapter.

These great debates always make my shopping trips more enjoyable. Can't wait for more. I do wish you had someone like Harbleu or Poko (some well-known off-tank player) to break up the main tank circle-jerk :P, but I understand if no one was available.

Every hero in this game has a huge community that loves playing them. Stop dunking on Orisa and Sig. Also, off tanks in this game are just bruisers. Also, Brig and Bap aren't even played outside of GM and Masters

With all this great content and great guests I always forget that you „only“ have 40k subscribers...

Crazy how a year later and this talk is still relavant

Youre insane bro, youre tutorials are amazing, slowly working through the different lineups but have 7 on Ascent all thanks to you!

Not having an offtank main hurt the podcast. People don't like to play main tank that much. I gave up Rein and now just play offtank when I noticed it's just DPS daycare half of the time. They want rein, but never protect rein against a Mei/Reaper. Screw that. The games are messier, but I'm having a lot more of a fun time.

Overwatch when you're level 4700 you know how it is in the higher level of play because players in the lower ranks don't know the level of the higher ranks of levels. Now GM players play at 4k not knowing the importance of higher level play, also contenders.

My friend and I were playing overwatch last night and we both queued for tank in quick play We both found a match in under 20 seconds

My main problem with playing tank is my teammates. 90% of the time I pick Rein or any other shield tank, my teammates avoid my shield at all cost. I've seen multiple times a McCree actively stepping away or in front of my shield to use his ult just to get headshot by a Widow. Or supports running past the tanks to heal the Genji who was jumping at the enemy frontline alone. In low ranks the dps tell you what tank to pick and then ignore you for the rest of the game. "Tanks, play double shield" *instalocks doomfist*

The Overwatch Developers needs to massively add to their tutorial system. There are layers to the game the majority of the player base does not see because we are expected to learn the entire game from the ground up during matchmaking.

I really liked SVB’s monologue that concluded just before an hour and 49 min. I would also love Freedo to talk about comparative philosophy and other topics that I know somewhat familiarly, because he puts such a clean and concise spin from a yet nuanced and sophisticated point of view

Reinhardt should have the rage ability cooldown that SVB is talking about. Mostly because it would be interactive for the player and also be a mini game with the opposing team so they're not feeding into his strength if they're spamming damage at him when they shouldn't be. I like the idea of the speed buff decaying too so he has to maintain it. Probably 3 seconds of increased immunity to crowd control and a buff to his movement speed when he gets attacked on a 8-10 second cooldown. Increase walk speed and steadfast by a percentage modifier. So for every 10 damage he receives when he's raging, he receives a 1% buff to his steadfast and movement speed to a maximum of 30% walk speed and 50% crowd control immunity. All temporary speed buffs will decay after he stops receiving damage at the rate of 5% per second. I feel like a change to Winton's tesla cannon mechanics could be cool to further enhance his place in dive comps. What if his tesla damage scaled higher when there are less enemies around to the value of 5 damage per enemy. This way he would do 90 dps if he's dueling somebody by themselves but he would be weak if he goes up against a rush comp that death balls. Maybe the range would be something like if there's more than 1 enemy within a 15 meter range, then the multiplier scales backwards so when he dives an enemy he'll do the initial 90 dps if they're by themselves but when a teammate is peeling for the person Winston is diving he now does 85 dps. If two people are peeling, he does 80 dps and so on and so forth. This could promote better positioning knowledge for both parties as well as encouraging peel. This would also help him be much stronger against things like double sniper comps or chasing down players who are way out of position. Maybe the animation indicator for if a player is diving correctly with him would be if his tesla cannon's electrical bolts attached to the number of players he's going up against. So if he's diving a person that's solo, all the charge from the tesla cannon is zapping that enemy but as soon as another enemy comes within that 15 meter range, the charge splits to help indicate that he's doing less dps. It would also help to promote team positional knowledge if one of you're squishies are getting dove upon and are pleading for peel or you know they're about to require help.

The issue that most of these youtubers and streamers miss when complaining about Orisa and the tank role is two fold. #1 Orisa mains exist and they enjoy playing her, for the very reasons you hate playing her. They enjoy enabling their teammates, it's a more passive way to play the game. Some heroes enable their teammates more than others. Roadhog, for example, can solo carry, he can play a bit more independently and get picks. That's why you see A-type personalities play him more often. If you don't like playing that teamwork oriented, passive style of play then you're gonna hate playing heroes like that. It's important to the health of the game to offer a variety of different types of playstyles to cater to many different types of players. #2 There isn't enough tank (and support) hero variety choice and overlap. Buffs, Nerfs, Reworks, etc, aren't going to solve the problem of not having enough choice in those roles. That's partially why people feel like they are locked into a certain hero like Orisa, like Brigitte, etc. The game becomes much easier to balance when it becomes more complex (contrary to what your gut reaction might be). When you have ability overlap, more counters, more interactions, you have more choice. E.G. If you need a tank hero with an ability that can eat ultimates and damage. Sigma's Kinetic Grasp & D.Va's Defense Matrix can do that. Both are different, but fundamentally the same. So you have a choice, Sigma or D.Va. If you need a tank hero with a shield you have Orisa, Winston, Sigma, and Reinhardt. If you need a tank hero with mobility, you have Winston, Wrecking Ball, D.Va. You get the idea. DPS has way more choice. Way more counter play. My hope is that Blizzard solves this with many more tanks and supports to pick from. No amount of nerfs or buffs is going to solve the lack of choice.

Dont always watch SVB but man these long form discussions are really great

I agree that content creators or maybe Overwatch Dev's themselves should put a beginners guide to positioning on each role and why we play around those positions. I enjoy watching OWL and top OW players and like to theorycraft and adopt high level play positions myself when playing Tank. But I ALWAYS get those people in my team who ridicule me for my shield placement/rotations on Eichenwalde/Volskaya defense on Orisa, while they stand in front of the choke and get blasted instantly and die. I have also had long ranged DPS players spam "Group up with me!" When they're standing on a capped Lighthouse point on Ilios, while I'm Winston/D.Va pushed forward on the high ground waiting for the next team fight. I want to practise good habits, but I feel forced to comply with the rest of my team and I feel awful when crap hits the fan and I knew exactly why it did. It's not fun at all. How am I supposed to learn from mistakes I already know are mistakes? Don't get me started on giving ticks/contesting the point... A lot of people still don't know you get instant respawn on 2CP :( I get yelled at for that too lol. A lot of people won't follow Tanks on a rotation and go the same old way every time. Or refuse to push through a choke hugging the Tank, they'll linger or stay behind. Too many times I've seen Ana players play far too back against dive DPS and don't rotate hugging tanks, promptly dying and failing our push. Lower ranks seem to have this out in the open, be in people's face kinda gameplay and don't bother looking externally on why they're dying a lot/not climbing in ranked. They just play the game how they've always played it. There's always the question of "Why?" Why do they need to set up here, why is highground always better, why should we push up and leave the objective and force/win fights away from it. Why are we doing this? We don't get any of this feedback from playing in the actual game. Most of it is willingness to learn or watching higher level gameplay. Perhaps a new game mode with set presets that visually show markers for positioning and an indication of how a team comp would usually play on each map? To give some visual indication of basic map positioning, and showing possible threats while not in that position? But still allowing players to be creative within safe positions, once they learn counters properly. I'd also love to see a separate SR for group play! It would mean I could queue with my Silver Ranked friends more, or create a throwaway practise team to experiment/practise team play on! I know multiple games that have this implemented already and they have unlimited teams you can make too. Not limiting you to one other team only. P.S I'm one of those players that likes playing Orisa, because it's literal torture playing Rein in low ranks haha!, and thank you for this talk, I learnt even more stuff! :3

On the Ban > Pool stuff - League uses bans and I think it's a really good idea that promotes you learning to play other characters too. Obviously I don;t think it's a good idea in ranked because you're with randoms and how would you pick etc, but for tournaments or leagues like OWL it would be a really good idea and fun to watch

Probably the best of these discussions so far! Very insightful

I get this video was from a year ago but the question was asked why the difference between 4k rank and higher and the difference might be the break point where playing becomes a job or an exclusive recreational activity (as in it is the person’s one activity and they don’t do others). That may be the breakpoint where it’s not just playing for fun but now you’re essentially studying to get better. As for what could be done to raise everyone’s skill, I think there’s a lot of bang for the buck with some quick tutorials or tutorial video built into the game that’s 5 minutes that lists off concepts with a short demonstration.

silver tank meta right now seems to be run in and die and hope your team wins without you

Great discussion, thanks SVB!

Huge issue with the game in general is meshing too many different groups of players together without making them learn the game. Overwatch appeals to tons of people: fps backgrounds, moba players, team game players, etc. Too many don't try to understand how Overwatch works and that it's a completely different beast from all of the games they've played: You have the sniper player from CS trying to 1v6 point B on 2 CP (not realizing that trade kills don't matter), or you have the guy from a stealth game who waits for all enemies to be killed before pushing objective (not realizing that you can pressure point or fucking move past a choke without getting kills). It doesn't end well for the people they play with and you have to play in spite of them instead of with them. And now you apply this to 2 sets of 6 people. It doesn't help that you have to go out of your way outside of Overwatch to learn how to play it, which most people even in ranked don't care to do (and you can't expect them to). What Flats said about masters-GM mixes is similar. It's exhausting swapping from Game A (I have to 1v6 carry or we lose) and Game B (we're playing as a team the game's actually fun) even in low SR, and it just makes climbing awful treating every other game as a GG go next.

As a 20 season Reinhardt main, who recently switched to off tank. This is a important discussion that needs to be had, good job i enjoyed it. Hope Blizzard are tuning in.

Re: The sixth timestamp, I think Blizzard doesn't do anything to teach players how to play the two roles at all. At least with DPS the entire interface as well as the FPS genre's history can help aid DPS players to show where they are lacking. No such assistance exist for Tanks or Healers, especially with the concepts that are unique to Overwatch. Blizzard should revamp the entire interface to that shows and rewards when supports and tanks play the game properly.

Yo, Rein should have a temporary movement speed multiplier when he lands firestrikes. Rewards hitting your abilities, and lets you close the gap. Like if you agree !!

bogur hit on a great point towards the end there, keeping the content creators happy is vital. watching Dafran forcing symmetra bastion memes every game is much more enjoyable than watching someones eyes glaze over as they play double shield for the 1000th game in a row. It reminded me the game can be fun when i was getting worn out

As a support player ive never been much of a lucio player. Never really liked his kit and if i am being honest at low ranks lucios come in two flavors bad reddit lucio or heals only lucio.

Can you talk about problematic hero design in Overwatch? By that I mean like how most people feel like Orisa and Brig and etc feel boring when you are forced to play.

Happy Late Birthday SVB!!!!!!

Give Winston a passive ability

Mercy meta was the best meta in overwatch. This was the only time in overwatch history when we genuinely had a rock, paper, scissors style of play with brawl comp, dive comp and bunker comp. This was actually what first enabled bunker comp but all comps were viable and map specific. The problem with the mercy meta was that it lasted for far too long

12:07 thank you again,, I appreciate all the clips.. definitely have learned a lot from just watching.. keep up the work bro

If Winston had a charge mechanic like sym, where he can charge up to about 20dps more than his base. This would help his time to kill and let him out damage a mercy pocket. I feel like this would put him in a better place but not make him broken. If winston wants to do more damage he has to stay in the fight longer, creates more skill in gaining charge and balancing when to get out.

Can't believe I watched this all in one sitting such good discussion the 4 hrs flew by.

Here's a thought- what if we had a global ultimate reset every time an objective was captured? One of the reasons control is so popular is that you see different comps on different stages, but as discussed in this video you get snowballed if you countercomp in other modes. I get that ult economy is a big skill factor, but it's also shit in a ranked setting.

Hey could you make a part 3 of these debates? They are very educational and I learn a lot from them. Also the meta seems to have changed when I look on the stats and I can't figure out why or how. Thanks!

Main problem with Fr33dos points 1. powercreep has not gone away. It is blatantly obvious with dps vs main tanks 2. don't ask player base especially dpses what tank to play. They still think that main tanks carry the game and we tanks all know how that works

EDIT: I fully support bans in every ranks. The people coming up with arguments against it are, usually, only the people worried that their specific hero is going to get banned. It's a non-issue. As SVB already said, the banphase shouldn't include names, and secondly, you shouldn't be playing ranked if you're only interested playing ONE hero. Bans aren't complicated, there's no reason to split it up between ranks. Each rank will just ban based on what's an issue in that rank. If Reaper is a serious issue in silver, they'll just ban Reaper, while GM might ban Brig or whatever. It's, as I said, a non-issue. You can't give people an incentive to play tanks. One of the problems with tanks aren't that the heroes are boring, they're actually (nearly) all fun BUT, they're only fun when the game plays as it should, which it doesn't in ranked, at least not in 99% of the ranks. So many people have said it before, but playing tank is like herding cats: it's frustrating as hell. The other reason is that most people just want to play dps. We've seen this in nearly all games that have a role system (and probably one oif the reasons why the Overwatch devs were so hesitant to add it). The other day I played some FFXIV and waited for a group to a low level instance for 20 minutes. And I still remember the good old days of WoW WotLK where you had similar queues as dps. But tank in Overwatch is just an extra level of frustrating compared to tanking in an MMO, because you end up either dying over an over, or waiting most of the game for the cats to group up and attack with you.

I don't like the suggestion of punishing players who don't play Reinhardt or Winston. I just don't have fun playing those 2 heroes and if you force me to then I just won't queue for tank anymore

sigma is a lot of fun tbh....its just orisa sig that made the problem. if sig was interchangeable with rein and winston that would be sick. like a 3rd main tank.

It`s just interresting to listen to.

One thing I was always hoping Blizzard would add is either a comp game mode or a option for role queue where you can play 3-5 maps for a larger gain or loss of sr and more time to organize as a team.

Samito is too loud. I personally find playing Orisa very fun. Her weapon is satisfying to use, halt is a great ability, its so so so so satisfying to block CC with fortify, she has a great personality, supercharger is one of the best ultimates in the game, I could go on.

We need a hero that can shoot long range through shields. Y/N?

You rock SVB! This was such an interesting discussion!

Im pretty sure reins playrate is so high because people in low ranks scream about not having a shield. Like i had an account that I somehow ended up in plat on after being low masters, and while i was climbing back up I definitely noticed that people say that way too much... Like maybe if you knew what cover was you wouldnt need to cry about a shield

I really feel like when I'm playing tank, the moment the enemy dps plays mei, echo, sym of torb, I can't do anything as rein, zarya, Winston or dva. I'm a high plat/low diamond TANK. also my team almost never hps in these ranks and semi force me to play sigma, hog or Orisa.

I played overwatch for the first time back in 2017, at this point, scatter arrow was still a thing and defense heroes were a class. I was first attracted by the design, I mained bastion because he was a robot and I liked robot. After a few games, I tried Reinhardt, I loved it. What made me appreciate that game was the fact that the TTK (time to kill) was way under the averge FPS's TTK, it permited me, a new player to the FPS genre, to assimilate the game. Plus, I enjoyed the fact that I could outplay players with better aim than me, with positionning and teamplay. Overwatch really felt like a team oriented FPS. I would push up with rein, swing my hammer, destroy enemy teams, ask for help. Most of the time when I queue'd, I could find an off tank willing to play something that would suits us both, we were trying to play the best comp, even though we were not applying every concepts to perfection, we had team interactions, in solo queue. I am now a 3k rein one trick, but you know what, I never was a one trick, I always played whatever suited my team the most. Then Blizzard nerfed the sheild, so utterly, that orisa became garbage. I litterally felt like playing orisa was throw because she just could not bring the value she had before; shooting behind a sheild that regenerates on cooldown while providing supportive abilities like pull to combo with or fortify to contest space. So I stopped playing orisa. But then, when my team mates played hog, what should I play since orisa was getting walked on by rein and dunked on by dive teams? Rein was way better in most of my orisa maps and he could give the protection to the hog not to get anti'd or hooked, where as winston did not synergize at all with him. I don't know if the sheild nerf impacted this or not, but I started seeing, a SHIT TON more roadhogs. So I played Rein. And now here I am, a Rein 1 trick, stuck into a meta where he can't have impact, I still remember when I would ask my zarya to bubble me and ask lucio to amp it up. Now, even as good as I try, I can't do anything but watch my hog not being in team chat, go on a flank, so I try to create pressure on the frontline to make the enemy team easier to kill for him, and I push, and I realise that I have a single moira on my back because our zen's head has been shot by one of the enemy sniper's, and I realise how powerless I am, facing a hog with nothing more than a widow and an echo, minding their own buisness, shitting on me in comms for not calling the right target while doing anything but focusing my target. I recently made tryouts for a 3.5k team, they liked my Reinhardt play, but I got dropped... because I needed to practice my mechanics with monkey. I did not play winston in almost 10 months, why would I, into a hog and a zarya or a hog/sigma or a Hog/ball. What could I do, even with double snipers, jumping over there would leave me so open, I couldnt do anything but feed. I liked overwatch for the low TTK and the mindgame that was applying to the game at the same time as the FPS took place. I liked having that rein duel with the enemy rein, I liked having to think fast about who to dive and where to jump, when to use my bubble and what were the cooldowns that I would have to deal with. Now nothing that I mentioned is anymore. I don't like having to practice my aim, even though I do. If I wanted to have an insane aim, I would not be a main tank main, I would be a DPS main. What I liked from the game is going away, and with it, my aspirations, I once wanted to be the best QC reinhardt player, even better than XQC. Now I don't even know if I want to play overwatch anymore. Every time I launch the game, I wonder ''What did I want to do, I don't know what to do, I just won't have fun meaningless of what I play''. The game got me down to being a Rein 1 trick and I can't even play Rein anymore. Damn, I lovED overwatch... back in the days...

The statement that everybody wants main tank like Rein in their games but no one wants to play them, cuz it's not fun to play them is very true

I agree with Flats point of adding 2 options that allows you too pick from faster queued game or a better quality game but longer wait times. However, I thought of an idea where you have « quick comp », which is meant for the people who want to play competitive but won’t care for every single move they commit (For example the dps bois who want to one trick someone) and only want to see what rank they reach. On the other side, another ranked called « Teamplay comp », this one is for the real guys who enjoy playing as a team and use tactics combined mechanical skills. Also, to avoid randoms wanting to get "good teammates" , the team with said person can vote him out and ban him/her from this game mode. Another antidote is to force at least the players to play in a group of minimum 2 people. This will hopefully organize both type of groups and not mix them together if they don’t have the same goals.

General vague summary: Basically, Tanks are the spine and central nervous system (heart included because it is also a 'centrepiece') while the rest of the team form around them. And when unfun tanks are played, boring comps are played. The most interesting tanks to play (statistical and anecdotal) are Reinhardt, Winston and Zarya although Reinhardt and Winston seem to be in need of a material way to SEE or FEEL that they are doing good. Playing together is fun (no shit Sherlock) The most played DPS are anti-tank, but the most fun anti-tanks aren't played because what they counter aren't either. And Blizzard is so up it's own ass about stats they forget they are making a GAME that people want to have FUN on. And people have fun most of the time when interacting positively with others to achieve victory (Introvert or extravert, and as an introvert, I can vouch for this in ANY game not just Overwatch) Blizzard is ignoring this in favour of pick rates, which say nothing of the actual power of the hero, just how enabling they are combine with fun and simplicity. So, they don't understand how to balance a game. I mean, take some page out of the AOE2 community and balance. There is like one problematic civ (Goths) but the rest have ways of being played to win by using their strength differently even in situations they theoretically get stomped. Pretty sure the Teuton of all civs are starting to be used in 1v1 Arabia because why not (and winning a surprising amount.) That meta developed mostly naturally and is still being explored organically. A trim here or there to ensure nothing dominates no matter what but what you pick is map based. Black Forest picked civs almost always have Britons because they are good on BF. Blizzard is trying to make a living log, and that's just not how it works.

glad you didnt ask SAMITO to join this debate regardless how good he is he's still a CLOWN !

A rein buff to his charge could be a good idea. We all know how charges generally speaking is bad in a fight. Unless certain circumstances occur: other rein charges you, charge to get back to team, short pin charges, etc.. So essentially since we now use charge much less frequently, we lose out on the potential gain it could provide from securing a kill, especially when against double shield. Of course we still don’t encourage narnia charges. So how could we encourage reins use of charge would be for it to provide shield e.g 200 shield hp. This will still have the risks of charging badly into a team and all of that, but it encourages smarter more creative pins and engages as rein has that extra buffer; rewarding these good plays.

omg i love listening to bogur, he's so passionate about this shit, he went from notable contenders player to mad scientist vibes in 3 hours

The "What is the tank meta?" segment in its entirety was legitimately therapeutic to me. I have been thinking literally everything these guys mentioned there about the tank meta and why picks are picked at the frequencies they are but its hard to put a finger on it when its just a clusterfuck of ranked games. The game legit feels broken currently at the tank level especially and it feels like its scrambled the entire playerbase's brains, no one seems to play the game in the "team oriented/enabling" way we developed over almost 22-23 seasons of shifting balancing from blizzard. The current meta encourages selfish and counter-intuitive play simply because the alternative to it is flat out inferior, its like winning by default. Thanks for the smart and heady content for people who play for more than just "frags" SVB, look forward to more, subscribed.

Bogur may be my favorite player now lmao

another amazing episode, great job

Now this, is *epic*

These are honestly my favourite videos ever!

The problem is that we all agreed that blizzard should be doing rapid patching

Make shield and bubble unique to Rein and Winston. Make kinetic grasp and fortify Orisa and Sigma's primary tank ability, and give them some new fun utility moves.

A QUICK INSERT ABOUT THE HOG CHANGES: yes they nerfed his fire rate, ammo count, and damage, but they buffed the hook so it pulls you 0.5 meters closer, making the one-shot easier on a lot of characters.

I just hope that 90 percent of the new heroes in OW2 are tank and support. Bridge the gaps between what each hero can do like you see in DPS. Make the equivalent of a "widow, ashe, mcree" spectrum but for Rein or for Ana.

In response to Bogur about killing 2 or 3 people and winning the fight, the problem in plat/gold is people don't know how to push an advantage and don't use numbers or play as a team , you have 6 players go 6 different directions with 6 different strats every fight, more often than not the fight isn't won until it's a full team wipe in plat.

I feel like the real solution to queue problem is releasing like 4 new heroes, 2 tanks and 2 healers. That wold make people want to try different roles. The quantity of dps heroes is the real problem

I remember forcing Rein in masters and I would actually do good enough. I’m virtually a rein one trick so I had no choice.